Explaining
Sarah
Sandra said "With Marty, he asked a couple of times
because of things other kids had said to him, so I explained just a
little, and he was fine again.'
**Sandra, I'd love to hear more of what you told Marty when he had these kinds of interactions with other kids.
I have a 10yo son (unschooled since age 7) who is very sensitive to what other kids say and are doing. He has younger cousins in public school and a neighbor friend who is schooled at home and he sees what they are doing in school and realizes that he doesn't understand a lot of it. He compares himself and thinks that because he is older than his cousins, he should know more and it bothers him that they can do things he struggles with or doesn't understand. He doesn't talk about this often but sometimes when he is trying to go to sleep, all these doubts and worries overwhelm him and he gets upset. In these moments he has talked of maybe trying to go back to school (he did grade K but doesn't remember much about it) but he worries that he will not know what all the other kids know.
In these moments I have told him that if he wants to go to school, he can. It has always been an option. I told him that learning the basics in say, Math does NOT take 5 years to learn. Handwriting gets easier if you use it every day. Reading gets more fluent the more you read. I've also told him that he is kind, and generous and thoughtful and fair and that these are way more important attributes than being able to do long division problems. Long division (and everything else) can be mastered easily when one is willing and interested. The world needs more people who are kind and decent. I also reminded him of all the things that we do and experience that kids in school do not have the option of doing. Like visiting museums and science centers and movie theaters when everyone else is in school. Taking trips in the middle of the week during the winter time.
Is there something more or better I can say to him in these moments?
Sarah
because of things other kids had said to him, so I explained just a
little, and he was fine again.'
**Sandra, I'd love to hear more of what you told Marty when he had these kinds of interactions with other kids.
I have a 10yo son (unschooled since age 7) who is very sensitive to what other kids say and are doing. He has younger cousins in public school and a neighbor friend who is schooled at home and he sees what they are doing in school and realizes that he doesn't understand a lot of it. He compares himself and thinks that because he is older than his cousins, he should know more and it bothers him that they can do things he struggles with or doesn't understand. He doesn't talk about this often but sometimes when he is trying to go to sleep, all these doubts and worries overwhelm him and he gets upset. In these moments he has talked of maybe trying to go back to school (he did grade K but doesn't remember much about it) but he worries that he will not know what all the other kids know.
In these moments I have told him that if he wants to go to school, he can. It has always been an option. I told him that learning the basics in say, Math does NOT take 5 years to learn. Handwriting gets easier if you use it every day. Reading gets more fluent the more you read. I've also told him that he is kind, and generous and thoughtful and fair and that these are way more important attributes than being able to do long division problems. Long division (and everything else) can be mastered easily when one is willing and interested. The world needs more people who are kind and decent. I also reminded him of all the things that we do and experience that kids in school do not have the option of doing. Like visiting museums and science centers and movie theaters when everyone else is in school. Taking trips in the middle of the week during the winter time.
Is there something more or better I can say to him in these moments?
Sarah
Sandra Dodd
-=-He compares himself and thinks that because he is older than his
cousins, he should know more and it bothers him that they can do
things he struggles with or doesn't understand. -=-
Talk about situations where others don't know something, rather than
making it about him, maybe.
One thing I told Marty, when the neighbor told him that he must be
kept home because he's not smart enough for school, that maybe he was
retarded. (Didn't use that word, or Marty didn't remember that word,
but that was the gist of what Marty asked me.) I felt really bad that
Marty had spent even the time of the walk from two houses over across
the street back to ours thinking he was mentally incompetent. I told
him no, not at all, that I was absolutely positive that if Marty went
to school he would make good grades, but that I didn't want him to
have to put up with the meanness and problems of school, if he didn't
have to, and I knew if he stayed home he would be fine.
Marty, now, is unhappy with his handwriting. He's a lefty. He can
communicate like crazy with a cellphone or computer, but he wishes he
had fluent, fluid handwriting. Other than that, I don't think he's
feeling "behind." He has several friends with college degrees who are
working at restaurants and shoe stores. One is a nurse and is
nursing; one is a teacher and is teaching. The girls are using their
girly degrees. (Tacky statement, but I'll leave it for now.) The
guys are flailing, but they have student loans. Two of the guys, from
a wealthy family with an elevator in their house, twins, good looking,
intelligent, did not go to college. They still work in the same comic
book store they worked in as teens. They're in their early-late 20's.
Marty knows that college isn't a magic key. He sees that education
can make people bitter and screwed up, resentful that they played that
game, earned those points, and can't always cash them in.
When Marty was six, though, seven, he didn't know that. Hanging
around with other kids, though, helped him see more about the natural
differences in other children's knowledge, abilities, courtesy,
honesty, etc., and he came to value reliably, kind friends over know-
it-all school-braggy kids. And some of the reliable friends were
homeschoolers, and some went to school. And some of the braggy
friends were homeschoolers, and some went to school.
It takes kids a while. It's easier when they're in school to just say
"that's how school is" without even going to see how school is. Or
more likely people say "That's how life is," because most people have
never considered that school is not a natural part of biological life.
I think smile and touch your son gently and say "Some of the kids in
school can't read, either, and they get bad grades and then their
parents punish them. Let's don't worry about that. You'll read
someday, without any bad grades or punishment," or something longterm
and sweet.
Third grade is fleeting, except for those poor boys (almost always
boys) who are held back for TWO years in third grade. Then they can
never be held back in that grade again, and only fail once more
altogether, probably (by the secret policies in our state, anyway; two
failures is the limit).
Unschooled children never need to fail. If they're frustrated or
unhappy in a moment, turn the moment to something happier. There are
a million more moments ahead. Or there aren't. With Holly, I used
to think either she'll live a long time and will have time to learn
this later, or she might die soon, in which case she didn't need to
know it at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cousins, he should know more and it bothers him that they can do
things he struggles with or doesn't understand. -=-
Talk about situations where others don't know something, rather than
making it about him, maybe.
One thing I told Marty, when the neighbor told him that he must be
kept home because he's not smart enough for school, that maybe he was
retarded. (Didn't use that word, or Marty didn't remember that word,
but that was the gist of what Marty asked me.) I felt really bad that
Marty had spent even the time of the walk from two houses over across
the street back to ours thinking he was mentally incompetent. I told
him no, not at all, that I was absolutely positive that if Marty went
to school he would make good grades, but that I didn't want him to
have to put up with the meanness and problems of school, if he didn't
have to, and I knew if he stayed home he would be fine.
Marty, now, is unhappy with his handwriting. He's a lefty. He can
communicate like crazy with a cellphone or computer, but he wishes he
had fluent, fluid handwriting. Other than that, I don't think he's
feeling "behind." He has several friends with college degrees who are
working at restaurants and shoe stores. One is a nurse and is
nursing; one is a teacher and is teaching. The girls are using their
girly degrees. (Tacky statement, but I'll leave it for now.) The
guys are flailing, but they have student loans. Two of the guys, from
a wealthy family with an elevator in their house, twins, good looking,
intelligent, did not go to college. They still work in the same comic
book store they worked in as teens. They're in their early-late 20's.
Marty knows that college isn't a magic key. He sees that education
can make people bitter and screwed up, resentful that they played that
game, earned those points, and can't always cash them in.
When Marty was six, though, seven, he didn't know that. Hanging
around with other kids, though, helped him see more about the natural
differences in other children's knowledge, abilities, courtesy,
honesty, etc., and he came to value reliably, kind friends over know-
it-all school-braggy kids. And some of the reliable friends were
homeschoolers, and some went to school. And some of the braggy
friends were homeschoolers, and some went to school.
It takes kids a while. It's easier when they're in school to just say
"that's how school is" without even going to see how school is. Or
more likely people say "That's how life is," because most people have
never considered that school is not a natural part of biological life.
I think smile and touch your son gently and say "Some of the kids in
school can't read, either, and they get bad grades and then their
parents punish them. Let's don't worry about that. You'll read
someday, without any bad grades or punishment," or something longterm
and sweet.
Third grade is fleeting, except for those poor boys (almost always
boys) who are held back for TWO years in third grade. Then they can
never be held back in that grade again, and only fail once more
altogether, probably (by the secret policies in our state, anyway; two
failures is the limit).
Unschooled children never need to fail. If they're frustrated or
unhappy in a moment, turn the moment to something happier. There are
a million more moments ahead. Or there aren't. With Holly, I used
to think either she'll live a long time and will have time to learn
this later, or she might die soon, in which case she didn't need to
know it at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***I also reminded him of all the things that we do and experience that kids in school do not have the option of doing. Like visiting museums and science centers and movie theaters when everyone else is in school. Taking trips in the middle of the week during the winter time. ***
That argument never worked with Chamille, she could see first hand that the museums and science centers and movies theaters got lots of action, not during school hours, but still, one could do those things even IF they went to school.
***He has younger cousins in public school and a neighbor friend who is schooled at home and he sees what they are doing in school and realizes that he doesn't understand a lot of it. He compares himself and thinks that because he is older than his cousins, he should know more and it bothers him that they can do things he struggles with or doesn't understand.***
This is very common at that age of 9 or 10. There is a very marked veering of paths from traditional schooling and unschooling. From this point onward, what an unschooling kid does looks VERY different than what a schooled kid does. It will not look like school at all. What I've seen with my own daughter that's gone through this, and hearing stories of others that have gone through this, is that focusing on what a child DOES do well and IS good at, helps enormously.
If a kid is concerned that they don't know how to do multiplication tables, that is one of those trigger points at the age of 9 or 10, what CAN they do instead, or where CAN they see that they will use multiplication. When Chamille went through those self doubts, we'd point to all the wonderful things she was doing and did know and how she learned those things outside of school. When she was finally able to pick up a book and read it at the age of 11, almost all of that doubt went away. She learned how to read, on her own, in her own way. It gave her the knowledge that if she could do that, then she could learn ANYthing. I never said that to her though, she told me recently that that is what happened. I knew, at the time, that it had happened because I could see it.
I tried very hard not to compare her to school kids because the comparisons were what was causing the anxiety in the first place. What my daughter needed was to see herself in a different light, with a different perspective, one that didn't mimic school, so that is what I tried very hard to give her and show her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That argument never worked with Chamille, she could see first hand that the museums and science centers and movies theaters got lots of action, not during school hours, but still, one could do those things even IF they went to school.
***He has younger cousins in public school and a neighbor friend who is schooled at home and he sees what they are doing in school and realizes that he doesn't understand a lot of it. He compares himself and thinks that because he is older than his cousins, he should know more and it bothers him that they can do things he struggles with or doesn't understand.***
This is very common at that age of 9 or 10. There is a very marked veering of paths from traditional schooling and unschooling. From this point onward, what an unschooling kid does looks VERY different than what a schooled kid does. It will not look like school at all. What I've seen with my own daughter that's gone through this, and hearing stories of others that have gone through this, is that focusing on what a child DOES do well and IS good at, helps enormously.
If a kid is concerned that they don't know how to do multiplication tables, that is one of those trigger points at the age of 9 or 10, what CAN they do instead, or where CAN they see that they will use multiplication. When Chamille went through those self doubts, we'd point to all the wonderful things she was doing and did know and how she learned those things outside of school. When she was finally able to pick up a book and read it at the age of 11, almost all of that doubt went away. She learned how to read, on her own, in her own way. It gave her the knowledge that if she could do that, then she could learn ANYthing. I never said that to her though, she told me recently that that is what happened. I knew, at the time, that it had happened because I could see it.
I tried very hard not to compare her to school kids because the comparisons were what was causing the anxiety in the first place. What my daughter needed was to see herself in a different light, with a different perspective, one that didn't mimic school, so that is what I tried very hard to give her and show her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Cyphers
***One is a nurse and is
nursing; one is a teacher and is teaching. The girls are using their
girly degrees. (Tacky statement, but I'll leave it for now.)***
I have a friend that calls them "pink collar" degrees and jobs. Maybe a little less tacky, but with the same general idea!
***I was absolutely positive that if Marty went
to school he would make good grades, but that I didn't want him to
have to put up with the meanness and problems of school, if he didn't
have to, and I knew if he stayed home he would be fine.***
This is very much what Margaux believes to be true, and very much a reason why she opts to stay home. She knows the neighbor kids, she knows they go to the school that she'd be going to. She doesn't even like playing with them or being around them here in our own little cul-de-sac. The thought of being forced to be around them without and out, is like a terrible nightmare for her! The possibility that there might be someone nice at school isn't enough of a draw!
Chamille seemed really good at drawing the good out of people. She would've played with the neighbor kids and found ways to enjoy them. Different personalities for sure! She's far less tolerant these days, she is unwilling to accept just anybody that shows up to hang out. Like Holly, she doesn't like lying, and LOTS of kids lie. It's a deal breaker for her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nursing; one is a teacher and is teaching. The girls are using their
girly degrees. (Tacky statement, but I'll leave it for now.)***
I have a friend that calls them "pink collar" degrees and jobs. Maybe a little less tacky, but with the same general idea!
***I was absolutely positive that if Marty went
to school he would make good grades, but that I didn't want him to
have to put up with the meanness and problems of school, if he didn't
have to, and I knew if he stayed home he would be fine.***
This is very much what Margaux believes to be true, and very much a reason why she opts to stay home. She knows the neighbor kids, she knows they go to the school that she'd be going to. She doesn't even like playing with them or being around them here in our own little cul-de-sac. The thought of being forced to be around them without and out, is like a terrible nightmare for her! The possibility that there might be someone nice at school isn't enough of a draw!
Chamille seemed really good at drawing the good out of people. She would've played with the neighbor kids and found ways to enjoy them. Different personalities for sure! She's far less tolerant these days, she is unwilling to accept just anybody that shows up to hang out. Like Holly, she doesn't like lying, and LOTS of kids lie. It's a deal breaker for her.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-She learned how to read, on her own, in her own way. It gave her
the knowledge that if she could do that, then she could learn
ANYthing. I never said that to her though, she told me recently that
that is what happened. I knew, at the time, that it had happened
because I could see it.-=-
I saw that in my kids, and wrote this, and it's hard to tell people
"stop trying to teach your child to read," because the parents see it
as me being mean, rather than me trying to show them the easiest path
to climb a mountain they've never seen.
http://sandradodd.com/r/deeper
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the knowledge that if she could do that, then she could learn
ANYthing. I never said that to her though, she told me recently that
that is what happened. I knew, at the time, that it had happened
because I could see it.-=-
I saw that in my kids, and wrote this, and it's hard to tell people
"stop trying to teach your child to read," because the parents see it
as me being mean, rather than me trying to show them the easiest path
to climb a mountain they've never seen.
http://sandradodd.com/r/deeper
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]