rough play with toddlers
gertrude lee
My response or reaction really bothered me tonight and while it was fresh in my mind i wanted to post the situation to see if others could help me calm down. So here is the situation will my toddlers. My son will be 4 next month and my daughter is 18 months, she was also born with a club foot and is still getting her bearings on pulling on things to walk around, even though we treated her for the foot soon after she was born through a series of castes. She has problems with hyper extension and flexion. Heres the deal, she can pretty much hold her own and enjoys a little roughing up. She recently discovered pulling up a foot stool over by the couch to climb up on the couch. When ever my son sees her doing this he runs up and starts jumping on the couch, she usually gets a little nervous and whiny but not tonight, but it just really bothered me. I am very much a follower of the continuum concept and beleive in my childs ability to in self
preservation but i got really nervous and i wanted to finish up cleaning the kitchen before bed so i could not hang out with them. I just asked him to stop doing that for the umpteenth time becuase it made me nervous and i felt she could get hurt he said ok. And he does this alot lately, i ask him to stop somthing for what ever reason he says ok,sorry,then he does it again and says sorry. Or sometimes he says no i want to do it. Tongiht when he go back and jumped around on the couch i just started screaming, he said oh sorry i'll stop i forgot. Me very frustrated turned off the tv and made him totally melt down. I proceeded to scream and drill him, i said i turned off the tv because you were jumping on the couch again with your sister there she could get hurt. He says oh, sorry i wont do it again ( he allways says this and does it again as if i am programming him some how to do it ) so he is crying for the tv, i say why did i turn the tv
off, he says because i am mad, why am i mad. He says because you are not being nice to me, you turned the tv off. I went on to drill him until he gave me the response i wanted, why did i turn off the tv,(he says) becuase i was on the couch with my sister, what could happen with you on the couch with your sister(he says) she could get hurt. I drilled him again, and again and fed him the answers until he responded the way i wanted him to with out prompting him. So i know the whole couch thing has nothing to do with the tv, i just did not know what else to do. I feel like i need him to focus so he can learn my needs to feel safe, just as i focus on his needs to feel safe, he is only 4 is this appropriate of me. What am i doing wrong. He throws things, he pushes and grabs things from his sister probably 50% of the time, other wise he has a fun caring personalty. This is getting much to long, i am so tired of yelling, but i dont feel heard and
then thats what i do. My husband and i have modelled a very poor relationship for the most part, my husband usually ignores me most of the time,while he dotes constantly on the children. I am very lonely for a healthy adult relationship. how can i interact with my son when he repeatidly does things that totally bother me and causes him to be the constant center of negative attention.i dont want to yell any more. thanks.
Trudy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
preservation but i got really nervous and i wanted to finish up cleaning the kitchen before bed so i could not hang out with them. I just asked him to stop doing that for the umpteenth time becuase it made me nervous and i felt she could get hurt he said ok. And he does this alot lately, i ask him to stop somthing for what ever reason he says ok,sorry,then he does it again and says sorry. Or sometimes he says no i want to do it. Tongiht when he go back and jumped around on the couch i just started screaming, he said oh sorry i'll stop i forgot. Me very frustrated turned off the tv and made him totally melt down. I proceeded to scream and drill him, i said i turned off the tv because you were jumping on the couch again with your sister there she could get hurt. He says oh, sorry i wont do it again ( he allways says this and does it again as if i am programming him some how to do it ) so he is crying for the tv, i say why did i turn the tv
off, he says because i am mad, why am i mad. He says because you are not being nice to me, you turned the tv off. I went on to drill him until he gave me the response i wanted, why did i turn off the tv,(he says) becuase i was on the couch with my sister, what could happen with you on the couch with your sister(he says) she could get hurt. I drilled him again, and again and fed him the answers until he responded the way i wanted him to with out prompting him. So i know the whole couch thing has nothing to do with the tv, i just did not know what else to do. I feel like i need him to focus so he can learn my needs to feel safe, just as i focus on his needs to feel safe, he is only 4 is this appropriate of me. What am i doing wrong. He throws things, he pushes and grabs things from his sister probably 50% of the time, other wise he has a fun caring personalty. This is getting much to long, i am so tired of yelling, but i dont feel heard and
then thats what i do. My husband and i have modelled a very poor relationship for the most part, my husband usually ignores me most of the time,while he dotes constantly on the children. I am very lonely for a healthy adult relationship. how can i interact with my son when he repeatidly does things that totally bother me and causes him to be the constant center of negative attention.i dont want to yell any more. thanks.
Trudy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-. I am very much a follower of the continuum concept and beleive
in my childs ability to in self
preservation -=-
Do you mean you want your children to take care of themselves?
-=-i wanted to finish up cleaning the kitchen before bed so i could
not hang out with them. -=-
You could have had one child in the kitchen with you. If the choice
is taking care of a baby and a three year old or cleaning the kitchen,
maybe the kitchen could wait.
Could you wear the baby? Could your son have helped with the dishes,
or watched videos in the kitchen with you, or sing with you or
something?
-=-I just asked him to stop doing that for the umpteenth time -=-
If you're asking the same way and it's not working, don't ask. He's
not listening. Say something different or totally change tactics.
-=-I went on to drill him until he gave me the response i wanted, why
did i turn off the tv,(he says) becuase i was on the couch with my
sister, what could happen with you on the couch with your sister(he
says) she could get hurt. I drilled him again, and again and fed him
the answers until he responded the way i wanted him to with out
prompting him. So i know the whole couch thing has nothing to do with
the tv, i just did not know what else to do. I feel like i need him
to focus so he can learn my needs to feel safe, just as i focus on his
needs to feel safe, -=-
When you write it out for us, did it sound right? Yelling and having
him recite your answers didn't improve your relationship with him. It
didn't make him feel better. It didn't make you feel better (I
hope). It didn't make your daughter's evening better. It didn't help
you clean the kitchen.
-=- This is getting much to long, i am so tired of yelling, but i
dont feel heard and
then thats what i do. -=-
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
There is a sound file at the bottom of that. If you listen to it, I
think it might help.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in my childs ability to in self
preservation -=-
Do you mean you want your children to take care of themselves?
-=-i wanted to finish up cleaning the kitchen before bed so i could
not hang out with them. -=-
You could have had one child in the kitchen with you. If the choice
is taking care of a baby and a three year old or cleaning the kitchen,
maybe the kitchen could wait.
Could you wear the baby? Could your son have helped with the dishes,
or watched videos in the kitchen with you, or sing with you or
something?
-=-I just asked him to stop doing that for the umpteenth time -=-
If you're asking the same way and it's not working, don't ask. He's
not listening. Say something different or totally change tactics.
-=-I went on to drill him until he gave me the response i wanted, why
did i turn off the tv,(he says) becuase i was on the couch with my
sister, what could happen with you on the couch with your sister(he
says) she could get hurt. I drilled him again, and again and fed him
the answers until he responded the way i wanted him to with out
prompting him. So i know the whole couch thing has nothing to do with
the tv, i just did not know what else to do. I feel like i need him
to focus so he can learn my needs to feel safe, just as i focus on his
needs to feel safe, -=-
When you write it out for us, did it sound right? Yelling and having
him recite your answers didn't improve your relationship with him. It
didn't make him feel better. It didn't make you feel better (I
hope). It didn't make your daughter's evening better. It didn't help
you clean the kitchen.
-=- This is getting much to long, i am so tired of yelling, but i
dont feel heard and
then thats what i do. -=-
http://sandradodd.com/parentingpeacefully
There is a sound file at the bottom of that. If you listen to it, I
think it might help.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 18, 2010, at 9:08 PM, gertrude lee wrote:
It helps greatly throughout kids' lives to not assume that they don't
understand if they're doing something "wrong". If you've told him, he
does intellectually understand in some 4 yo capacity. But whatever
else he needs to redirect himself just hasn't developed yet. He may
not get that she's another human being. To him she (and you and lots
of the rest of the world) are intriguing objects to manipulate. He's
testing out his power in the world. You can tell him all you want
that she'll get hurt but his empathy isn't developed and your words
don't and can't make sense in the way you want them to.
safe from bullies in her own home than that you're the good follower
of someone else's philosophy.
leave, take one with you to do something fun. (Often having mom's
full attention is fun for kids.)
Rules and orders are like remote parenting. You can't hand your son a
piece of yourself (a rule) and expect him to listen to it as though
it were you.
Right now, the two need to not be alone together. That's just your
reality until it isn't any more.
If he's bothering her, redirect him, give him some personal
attention, find him something better to do, find something better for
her to do. There's probably a build up and become aware of it before
it turns on her. He's trying to meet a need but just can't yet do it
in a more socially acceptable way. You need to be there for him.
history that has led to this but people don't turn away for no
reason. Perhaps a series of hurts you've each done to the other (many
probably without even realizing it) that have built to the point you
feel justified in being hurtful and have eroded the trust. Unless
there's abuse or mental illness, it doesn't matter. Wanting him to
change won't make him change any more than him wanting you to change
will make you change. It just drives a wedge deeper between you.
If you want him to reach out -- and you *do* because divorce should
be considered also the end of unschooling (Read here: http://
sandradodd.com/divorce) (yes, occasionally unschooling can continue
but no one should count on that) -- then you'll need to be the path
builder. Doing one nice thoughtful thing a day for him will help
enormously. Read the archives here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Peacefulpartnerships/
It will help remove one more stress from your life and help you live
the relationship you'd like your kids to have with their future
partners.
Joyce
> I just asked him to stop doing that for the umpteenth time becuaseThis sounds like behavior that crops up at 4 for a lot of kids.
> it made me nervous and i felt she could get hurt he said ok.
It helps greatly throughout kids' lives to not assume that they don't
understand if they're doing something "wrong". If you've told him, he
does intellectually understand in some 4 yo capacity. But whatever
else he needs to redirect himself just hasn't developed yet. He may
not get that she's another human being. To him she (and you and lots
of the rest of the world) are intriguing objects to manipulate. He's
testing out his power in the world. You can tell him all you want
that she'll get hurt but his empathy isn't developed and your words
don't and can't make sense in the way you want them to.
> I am very much a follower of the continuum concept and beleive inI think she'll respect you a lot more if she knows you will keep her
> my childs ability to in self
> preservation but i got really nervous
safe from bullies in her own home than that you're the good follower
of someone else's philosophy.
> i wanted to finish up cleaning the kitchen before bed so i couldIf being absent creates a problem, be more present. If you need to
> not hang out with them.
>
leave, take one with you to do something fun. (Often having mom's
full attention is fun for kids.)
Rules and orders are like remote parenting. You can't hand your son a
piece of yourself (a rule) and expect him to listen to it as though
it were you.
Right now, the two need to not be alone together. That's just your
reality until it isn't any more.
If he's bothering her, redirect him, give him some personal
attention, find him something better to do, find something better for
her to do. There's probably a build up and become aware of it before
it turns on her. He's trying to meet a need but just can't yet do it
in a more socially acceptable way. You need to be there for him.
> My husband and i have modelled a very poor relationship for theHave you tried doing nice things for him? Undoubtedly there's a huge
> most part, my husband usually ignores me most of the time,while he
> dotes constantly on the children.
>
history that has led to this but people don't turn away for no
reason. Perhaps a series of hurts you've each done to the other (many
probably without even realizing it) that have built to the point you
feel justified in being hurtful and have eroded the trust. Unless
there's abuse or mental illness, it doesn't matter. Wanting him to
change won't make him change any more than him wanting you to change
will make you change. It just drives a wedge deeper between you.
If you want him to reach out -- and you *do* because divorce should
be considered also the end of unschooling (Read here: http://
sandradodd.com/divorce) (yes, occasionally unschooling can continue
but no one should count on that) -- then you'll need to be the path
builder. Doing one nice thoughtful thing a day for him will help
enormously. Read the archives here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Peacefulpartnerships/
It will help remove one more stress from your life and help you live
the relationship you'd like your kids to have with their future
partners.
Joyce
Deb Lewis
*** I am very much a follower of the continuum concept and beleive in my childs ability to in self
preservation...***
Most people have a sense of self preservation but that doesn't stop people from getting hurt. You can't rely on your children's sense of self preservation to keep them safe, they need you to be there with them.
***i wanted to finish up cleaning the kitchen before bed so i could not hang out with them.***
A clean kitchen is not more important than safe, happy kids. You can clean the kitchen when one or both kids are asleep. Or, like others have suggested, have one kid with you in the kitchen while the other is happily doing something he /she likes. Or have them both with you in the kitchen.
***And he does this a lot lately, i ask him to stop somthing for what ever reason he says ok,sorry,then he does it again and says sorry***
That's related to impulse control and before a child has the ability to control strong impulses no amount of mom yelling or punishment will make him get it. It comes with growth and maturity. And you will not be a good example of impulse control if, as the grown up, you can't control your impulse to yell.
***I feel like i need him to focus so he can learn my needs to feel safe, just as i focus on his needs to feel safe, he is only 4 is this appropriate of me.***
He is too little to be in charge of your needs and he's too little to be in charge of his sister's safety. If you need your children to be safe then *you* need to be with them and keep the situation safe. Take one kid with you to another room if they're not getting along. Distract and engage a cranky child, make sure the four year old is not left in charge of his sister, that's not his job.
*** My husband and i have modelled a very poor relationship for the most part, my husband usually ignores me most of the time,while he dotes constantly on the children.***
I'm sorry he ignores you but it's good that he pays attention to his kids. Lot's of moms could tell you how difficult things can be with a (physically or emotionally) absent father. I'm not trying to minimize the significance of your situation but rather show you some little positive thing that you might build on. You can't force him to pay attention to you but you can pay attention to him. Bake some nice thing they all like and take it to where they're playing. Pick out some new toys with your husband in mind. Make it easier for him be with his kids if that's his thing. You'll be contributing to a happy relationship between your kids and their dad.
***I am very lonely for a healthy adult relationship. ***
Do you have a sibling or friend you can talk to every day? That's not a perfect substitute for a partner but it might help you. Have you tried keeping a journal? It's not the same as pouring your heart out to a partner but it can be therapeutic for some people.
***how can i interact with my son when he repeatidly does things that totally bother me and causes him to be the constant center of negative attention.***
He's not doing things to bother you, he little. He loves you and wants you to be a happy mom. *You* are bothered. And you can find a way to understand your son so that you won't be bothered. You may have expectations that a four year old child simply cannot meet. Change your expectations. He cannot be the center of your negative attention if you stop being negative.
This may be way off the mark but something to consider. Is it possible your husband pays a lot of attention to the kids because you're paying a lot of attention to the housework?
Is it possible he pays attention to the kids because he feels he can't please you?
Is it possible your negative feelings about your son are in part because you feel he's getting too much of your husband's attention?
If you are looking for everyone else to do things just right so that you can be happy that's too much pressure on them and an unrealistic expectation on your part.
***i dont want to yell any more.***
Sometimes people in the habit of yelling have really demanding standards they expect others to live up to. If you yell a lot, your husbands devotion to the kids might be a response to that. He might be spending his time with the people who seem to like him and who don't find fault.
Sometimes people in the habit of yelling got yelled at a lot when they were little. The way we talk to our kids, especially in times of stress, is the way they will talk to their kids and others, including their parents, in times of stress. Maybe you can find some kind of redirection technique to help you in those moments you feel like yelling. Take a deep breath and go in the bathroom and splash some cold water on your face.
Make some time to do something physical every day. If your husband is home at night, leave him with the kids and go swimming or go for a brisk walk. Join a fitness class or jump rope in the backyard. A half hour or an hour of physical activity a day can really change your mental state and help you think more clearly and be calmer. I know it sounds like it's unrelated to the things you wrote about but it will help you feel better emotionally and when you feel better you can interact better with your family.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
preservation...***
Most people have a sense of self preservation but that doesn't stop people from getting hurt. You can't rely on your children's sense of self preservation to keep them safe, they need you to be there with them.
***i wanted to finish up cleaning the kitchen before bed so i could not hang out with them.***
A clean kitchen is not more important than safe, happy kids. You can clean the kitchen when one or both kids are asleep. Or, like others have suggested, have one kid with you in the kitchen while the other is happily doing something he /she likes. Or have them both with you in the kitchen.
***And he does this a lot lately, i ask him to stop somthing for what ever reason he says ok,sorry,then he does it again and says sorry***
That's related to impulse control and before a child has the ability to control strong impulses no amount of mom yelling or punishment will make him get it. It comes with growth and maturity. And you will not be a good example of impulse control if, as the grown up, you can't control your impulse to yell.
***I feel like i need him to focus so he can learn my needs to feel safe, just as i focus on his needs to feel safe, he is only 4 is this appropriate of me.***
He is too little to be in charge of your needs and he's too little to be in charge of his sister's safety. If you need your children to be safe then *you* need to be with them and keep the situation safe. Take one kid with you to another room if they're not getting along. Distract and engage a cranky child, make sure the four year old is not left in charge of his sister, that's not his job.
*** My husband and i have modelled a very poor relationship for the most part, my husband usually ignores me most of the time,while he dotes constantly on the children.***
I'm sorry he ignores you but it's good that he pays attention to his kids. Lot's of moms could tell you how difficult things can be with a (physically or emotionally) absent father. I'm not trying to minimize the significance of your situation but rather show you some little positive thing that you might build on. You can't force him to pay attention to you but you can pay attention to him. Bake some nice thing they all like and take it to where they're playing. Pick out some new toys with your husband in mind. Make it easier for him be with his kids if that's his thing. You'll be contributing to a happy relationship between your kids and their dad.
***I am very lonely for a healthy adult relationship. ***
Do you have a sibling or friend you can talk to every day? That's not a perfect substitute for a partner but it might help you. Have you tried keeping a journal? It's not the same as pouring your heart out to a partner but it can be therapeutic for some people.
***how can i interact with my son when he repeatidly does things that totally bother me and causes him to be the constant center of negative attention.***
He's not doing things to bother you, he little. He loves you and wants you to be a happy mom. *You* are bothered. And you can find a way to understand your son so that you won't be bothered. You may have expectations that a four year old child simply cannot meet. Change your expectations. He cannot be the center of your negative attention if you stop being negative.
This may be way off the mark but something to consider. Is it possible your husband pays a lot of attention to the kids because you're paying a lot of attention to the housework?
Is it possible he pays attention to the kids because he feels he can't please you?
Is it possible your negative feelings about your son are in part because you feel he's getting too much of your husband's attention?
If you are looking for everyone else to do things just right so that you can be happy that's too much pressure on them and an unrealistic expectation on your part.
***i dont want to yell any more.***
Sometimes people in the habit of yelling have really demanding standards they expect others to live up to. If you yell a lot, your husbands devotion to the kids might be a response to that. He might be spending his time with the people who seem to like him and who don't find fault.
Sometimes people in the habit of yelling got yelled at a lot when they were little. The way we talk to our kids, especially in times of stress, is the way they will talk to their kids and others, including their parents, in times of stress. Maybe you can find some kind of redirection technique to help you in those moments you feel like yelling. Take a deep breath and go in the bathroom and splash some cold water on your face.
Make some time to do something physical every day. If your husband is home at night, leave him with the kids and go swimming or go for a brisk walk. Join a fitness class or jump rope in the backyard. A half hour or an hour of physical activity a day can really change your mental state and help you think more clearly and be calmer. I know it sounds like it's unrelated to the things you wrote about but it will help you feel better emotionally and when you feel better you can interact better with your family.
Deb Lewis
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
If you want him to reach out -- and you *do* because divorce should
be considered also the end of unschooling (Read here:
http:/sandradodd.com/divorce) (yes, occasionally unschooling can
continue
but no one should count on that) -- then you'll need to be the path
builder. Doing one nice thoughtful thing a day for him will help
enormously. Read the archives here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Peacefulpartnerships/
I brought that out again because the first link hadn't lit up.
Here's another:
http://sandradodd.com/partners
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be considered also the end of unschooling (Read here:
http:/sandradodd.com/divorce) (yes, occasionally unschooling can
continue
but no one should count on that) -- then you'll need to be the path
builder. Doing one nice thoughtful thing a day for him will help
enormously. Read the archives here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Peacefulpartnerships/
I brought that out again because the first link hadn't lit up.
Here's another:
http://sandradodd.com/partners
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Deb Lewis is like a genius sometimes:
-=-This may be way off the mark but something to consider. Is it
possible your husband pays a lot of attention to the kids because
you're paying a lot of attention to the housework?
Is it possible he pays attention to the kids because he feels he can't
please you?
Is it possible your negative feelings about your son are in part
because you feel he's getting too much of your husband's attention?
If you are looking for everyone else to do things just right so that
you can be happy that's too much pressure on them and an unrealistic
expectation on your part. -=-
Is it possible your son is like your husband in some of the ways you
don't like your husband for?
Maybe get out of the house as a family, be away from the dishes, the
associations, the memories, and create some newer, sweeter memories.
When my kids have gone into relationships I've advised them to be very
careful about what they say, because cruel things cannot be unsaid,
and relationships can only handle a few cruelties. I remember some
mean things Keith said 30 years ago, and he probably remembers a few
things I said, but we stopped being mean. Just stopped. Yes, I can
hurt him with words, but why? What good does it do? It's deeply
damaging to the person and to the relationship, but more than that, it
made me mean. If I can do a mean thing and justify it, then I am a
mean person. It's not good. Move toward joy.
http://sandradodd.com/joy
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-This may be way off the mark but something to consider. Is it
possible your husband pays a lot of attention to the kids because
you're paying a lot of attention to the housework?
Is it possible he pays attention to the kids because he feels he can't
please you?
Is it possible your negative feelings about your son are in part
because you feel he's getting too much of your husband's attention?
If you are looking for everyone else to do things just right so that
you can be happy that's too much pressure on them and an unrealistic
expectation on your part. -=-
Is it possible your son is like your husband in some of the ways you
don't like your husband for?
Maybe get out of the house as a family, be away from the dishes, the
associations, the memories, and create some newer, sweeter memories.
When my kids have gone into relationships I've advised them to be very
careful about what they say, because cruel things cannot be unsaid,
and relationships can only handle a few cruelties. I remember some
mean things Keith said 30 years ago, and he probably remembers a few
things I said, but we stopped being mean. Just stopped. Yes, I can
hurt him with words, but why? What good does it do? It's deeply
damaging to the person and to the relationship, but more than that, it
made me mean. If I can do a mean thing and justify it, then I am a
mean person. It's not good. Move toward joy.
http://sandradodd.com/joy
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]