Does Radical Unschooling always result in "Good" children?
shirarocklin
Ok, the title has a lot of assumptions, but that was the easiest way I could think to describe what I am asking. I know 'good' is not a great choice of words there. What I am trying to ask is actually this:
We hear on this list, and others, and Sandra's website, and many other RUers websites, etc about all the great kids who have come through this lifestyle. And that is really wonderful. But critics could come along and say to me, "Sure, the great cases are what's talked about... but what about the bad cases?" And I think they ask partly because so much of this is anecdotal, unschoolers don't seem to be 'studied,' there isn't much in the way of statistical evidence (or is there? please point me to it!). Homeschooling study results probably don't even apply to RUers.
So, I'm curious. Are there any Radically Unschooled children, who have grown up, who are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat people badly, lie, etc...?
Is it possible for someone to grow up to turn out that way with the RU set of principles in place? With parents who are genuinely 'good'?
Thanks,
Shira
We hear on this list, and others, and Sandra's website, and many other RUers websites, etc about all the great kids who have come through this lifestyle. And that is really wonderful. But critics could come along and say to me, "Sure, the great cases are what's talked about... but what about the bad cases?" And I think they ask partly because so much of this is anecdotal, unschoolers don't seem to be 'studied,' there isn't much in the way of statistical evidence (or is there? please point me to it!). Homeschooling study results probably don't even apply to RUers.
So, I'm curious. Are there any Radically Unschooled children, who have grown up, who are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat people badly, lie, etc...?
Is it possible for someone to grow up to turn out that way with the RU set of principles in place? With parents who are genuinely 'good'?
Thanks,
Shira
Joyce Fetteroll
On Dec 28, 2009, at 8:54 PM, shirarocklin wrote:
While it's fairly easy to grasp what to let go of to radically
unschool, one of the biggest stumbling blocks is understanding what
to replace it with. Someone who says they're radically unschooling
could have let go, but not done the replacing. They could be
unparenting.
Another stumbling block is a parent who doesn't "get" their kid and
can't figure out how to help them.
And there are other factors: bad biochemistry. Abuse. Divorce (not
merely the act itself, but everything around it: parents tearing at
each other, the idea that love isn't unconditional, kids feeling
guilty or abandoned).
Which all sounds like words to cover unschooling's ass ;-)
The actions you've listed are all strategies to get what someone
wants. So the big question is why would someone adopt those
strategies that hurt people when there are strategies that can help
them get what they want without hurting others?
There are understandable reasons! If a child feels he can't get what
he wants except on his own, cheating and stealing and so on can be
good strategies. If the child feels like the people around him put
their own agendas ahead of his, if they've shown they aren't to be
trusted to help, if they've shown they don't respect him, why would
he care to put in the effort not to hurt them?
If a child knows the parents objective is to help him get what he
wants, if the parent is offering strategies that are kind and safe,
then the parent is creating an environment where cheating, stealing,
etc aren't advantageous.
Being what the parent thinks is trustworthy and respectful isn't
enough. The parent needs to direct trustworthiness and respect to the
child. The child needs to feel the parent trusts and respects who
they are. The child needs to trust the parent is someone who wants to
help them.
It's not a straight cut path to lying and stealing prevention ;-)
Asking how to prevent kids from lying is sort of like asking how to
get a steeple bell 50 feet into the air. The answer begins with
building a foundation on the ground which hardly sounds like a way to
get something into the air ;-)
Joyce
> So, I'm curious. Are there any Radically Unschooled children, whoIf someone says they've radically unschooled, have they really?
> have grown up, who are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat
> people badly, lie, etc...?
While it's fairly easy to grasp what to let go of to radically
unschool, one of the biggest stumbling blocks is understanding what
to replace it with. Someone who says they're radically unschooling
could have let go, but not done the replacing. They could be
unparenting.
Another stumbling block is a parent who doesn't "get" their kid and
can't figure out how to help them.
And there are other factors: bad biochemistry. Abuse. Divorce (not
merely the act itself, but everything around it: parents tearing at
each other, the idea that love isn't unconditional, kids feeling
guilty or abandoned).
Which all sounds like words to cover unschooling's ass ;-)
The actions you've listed are all strategies to get what someone
wants. So the big question is why would someone adopt those
strategies that hurt people when there are strategies that can help
them get what they want without hurting others?
There are understandable reasons! If a child feels he can't get what
he wants except on his own, cheating and stealing and so on can be
good strategies. If the child feels like the people around him put
their own agendas ahead of his, if they've shown they aren't to be
trusted to help, if they've shown they don't respect him, why would
he care to put in the effort not to hurt them?
If a child knows the parents objective is to help him get what he
wants, if the parent is offering strategies that are kind and safe,
then the parent is creating an environment where cheating, stealing,
etc aren't advantageous.
Being what the parent thinks is trustworthy and respectful isn't
enough. The parent needs to direct trustworthiness and respect to the
child. The child needs to feel the parent trusts and respects who
they are. The child needs to trust the parent is someone who wants to
help them.
It's not a straight cut path to lying and stealing prevention ;-)
Asking how to prevent kids from lying is sort of like asking how to
get a steeple bell 50 feet into the air. The answer begins with
building a foundation on the ground which hardly sounds like a way to
get something into the air ;-)
Joyce
Heather
It does here, so far- my kids are 16.75 and almost 13. My sister-in-law
told me that I was lucky to have such good children. Hers did all the
scary"bad"stuff - teen pregnancy, heroin, drug busts, etc, etc. I think
she is pretty aware that how she parented had something to do with it.
She is raising the grandchild and is trying to do better - though from
more of a strict christian perspective, rather than ignoring. Maybe it
is a little better- at least she cares, and has some kind of awareness.
I have a cousin who at just 18, was arrested for arson and spent 2 years
in jail. He was able to come out, reclaim his life, and has been at MIT
lately, and has a new job as a video game programmer, and feels really
lucky in that he gets to do things he enjoys every day. His mom never
homeschooled him but had considered it, and was reading Growing Without
Schooling- she had all the back issues from the beginning which she gave
me. So I see her as a decent parent, though perhaps his dad wasn't.
There was a lot of intense stuff going on when he was a teen at home. I
think having her, always believing in him, really helped.
I don't fool myself that my kids will never make any choices in their
lives that could be considered bad, by others, or by them, later. What
is different here is that I unfailingly see my kids as good people, who
are able to learn and grow from their "mistakes". I believe that it
makes a huge difference, having someone in your life, even one person,
who sees you that way. Who trusts in your inner goodness even if you
behave in ways that are seen as "bad." Though so far my kids haven't
felt the need to behave in those ways, not for a long time.
There are no guarantees, no matter what you do, in parenting. You really
have to do what feels right, for now. Really that is all you might have,
anyway. Kids don't always grow up. Whether kids go to school, or not, it
is possible that they could grow up and feel confused, or not, or
unhappy, or not. I don't radically unschool for the results, though I
think they will be good, and so far they are. Having a teen that people
frequently remark on as being a great kid, and who is well recieved and
surprises people wherever he goes, seems to me to be a really good
start- so I am going with it.
Heather (in NY)
told me that I was lucky to have such good children. Hers did all the
scary"bad"stuff - teen pregnancy, heroin, drug busts, etc, etc. I think
she is pretty aware that how she parented had something to do with it.
She is raising the grandchild and is trying to do better - though from
more of a strict christian perspective, rather than ignoring. Maybe it
is a little better- at least she cares, and has some kind of awareness.
I have a cousin who at just 18, was arrested for arson and spent 2 years
in jail. He was able to come out, reclaim his life, and has been at MIT
lately, and has a new job as a video game programmer, and feels really
lucky in that he gets to do things he enjoys every day. His mom never
homeschooled him but had considered it, and was reading Growing Without
Schooling- she had all the back issues from the beginning which she gave
me. So I see her as a decent parent, though perhaps his dad wasn't.
There was a lot of intense stuff going on when he was a teen at home. I
think having her, always believing in him, really helped.
I don't fool myself that my kids will never make any choices in their
lives that could be considered bad, by others, or by them, later. What
is different here is that I unfailingly see my kids as good people, who
are able to learn and grow from their "mistakes". I believe that it
makes a huge difference, having someone in your life, even one person,
who sees you that way. Who trusts in your inner goodness even if you
behave in ways that are seen as "bad." Though so far my kids haven't
felt the need to behave in those ways, not for a long time.
There are no guarantees, no matter what you do, in parenting. You really
have to do what feels right, for now. Really that is all you might have,
anyway. Kids don't always grow up. Whether kids go to school, or not, it
is possible that they could grow up and feel confused, or not, or
unhappy, or not. I don't radically unschool for the results, though I
think they will be good, and so far they are. Having a teen that people
frequently remark on as being a great kid, and who is well recieved and
surprises people wherever he goes, seems to me to be a really good
start- so I am going with it.
Heather (in NY)
Pam Sorooshian
> So, I'm curious. Are there any Radically Unschooled children, whoUnschooling families have their problems, too, that can lead to their
> > have grown up, who are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat
> > people badly, lie, etc...?
>
kids having problems. If someone is looking for a guarantee that their
kids will "turn out" great, sorry, but there are no guarantees. First,
life circumstances can throw any family into turmoil. Second,
unschooling parents can have their own baggage that impacts their
children in negative ways.
Unlike conventional parenting and conventional schooling, unschooling
doesn't set kids up to lie, cheat, and steal, though. So, other things
equal, I like our odds.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-Are there any Radically Unschooled children, who have grown up, who
are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat people badly, lie,
etc...?-=-
Are there any parents who become radical unschoolers who are not
'good' people?
I think it's a fantastic question, and Joyce's answer was so cool I
stuck it here. Will probably add Pam's, too.
http://sandradodd.com/guarantee
The background is some blown glass I have, the first photo I took with
a new camera some years ago (in case anyone's wondering).
There are some unschooling parents who are not sterling examples of
integrity. So the eternal questions involving nature and nurture
apply to unschoolers as much as to anyone, anywhere, any time.
If there is anyone reading there who is unfamiliar with the "nature
vs. nurture" debate, I recommend the movie "Trading Places." It stars
Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy, backed up by Denholm Elliott as the
butler (very good character) and Jamie Lee Curtis (25 years ago, VERY
pretty and funny). Two millionaire brothers make a bet about nature
vs. nurture. They're played by Don Ameche and Ralph Bellamy. Those
older actors have all since died, and they were awesome and famous
when they were younger so it's fun to have seen them all in one movie,
too. And Frank Oz plays a cop (as he played a prison officer in The
Blues Brothers).
To Pam's list of damaging factors, things that could easily mar a
person's confidence and progress, I'd like to add step parents (a by-
product of divorce, and adoption. Some step parents are awesome and
practically perfect in every way. Some adoptions work out glowingly
for all involved. Not most. Some. Not lots. Some.
Some kids are unschooled their whole lives starting with attachment
parenting and breastfeeding and family bed. Others are spanked and
yelled at and sent to school and told without school they'll be
homeless beggars, or worse. Then if their parents switch to
unschooling and start working to make up for that, how long will it
take for the child to recover from the initial ideas that the parents
were wrong before and could be wrong again, or maybe that the parents
were right before and don't care that the child will be a beggar in
prison.
It's possible to put all kinds of obstacles in a child's life, or to
bring all kinds of trouble home. The question is asked about whether
a radical unschooler could turn out bad. ANY person could turn out
bad, or have a great 30 years and then factors could overwhelm them,
or have a terrible 30 years, and somehow rise above it to become
saints of some sort.
How many obstacles can a person overcome? It depends on the person,
largely. I can handle a lot of stress, but if I'm pre-loaded with
stress and deadlines and guests coming, a small thing can seem HUGE
to me in that moment.
This page might be worth looking at too:
http://sandradodd.com/screwitup
If you think of what you could do to make things worse, that creates
an immediate set of what to do to make things better.
When my boys were little they took swimming lessons and would recite
the safety reminders in opposite terms:
Never swim with a buddy, always swim alone.
Swim in a storm.
Run by the pool.
Because they could do that, I knew for certain that they did know the
list.
Sandra
are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat people badly, lie,
etc...?-=-
Are there any parents who become radical unschoolers who are not
'good' people?
I think it's a fantastic question, and Joyce's answer was so cool I
stuck it here. Will probably add Pam's, too.
http://sandradodd.com/guarantee
The background is some blown glass I have, the first photo I took with
a new camera some years ago (in case anyone's wondering).
There are some unschooling parents who are not sterling examples of
integrity. So the eternal questions involving nature and nurture
apply to unschoolers as much as to anyone, anywhere, any time.
If there is anyone reading there who is unfamiliar with the "nature
vs. nurture" debate, I recommend the movie "Trading Places." It stars
Dan Aykroyd and Eddie Murphy, backed up by Denholm Elliott as the
butler (very good character) and Jamie Lee Curtis (25 years ago, VERY
pretty and funny). Two millionaire brothers make a bet about nature
vs. nurture. They're played by Don Ameche and Ralph Bellamy. Those
older actors have all since died, and they were awesome and famous
when they were younger so it's fun to have seen them all in one movie,
too. And Frank Oz plays a cop (as he played a prison officer in The
Blues Brothers).
To Pam's list of damaging factors, things that could easily mar a
person's confidence and progress, I'd like to add step parents (a by-
product of divorce, and adoption. Some step parents are awesome and
practically perfect in every way. Some adoptions work out glowingly
for all involved. Not most. Some. Not lots. Some.
Some kids are unschooled their whole lives starting with attachment
parenting and breastfeeding and family bed. Others are spanked and
yelled at and sent to school and told without school they'll be
homeless beggars, or worse. Then if their parents switch to
unschooling and start working to make up for that, how long will it
take for the child to recover from the initial ideas that the parents
were wrong before and could be wrong again, or maybe that the parents
were right before and don't care that the child will be a beggar in
prison.
It's possible to put all kinds of obstacles in a child's life, or to
bring all kinds of trouble home. The question is asked about whether
a radical unschooler could turn out bad. ANY person could turn out
bad, or have a great 30 years and then factors could overwhelm them,
or have a terrible 30 years, and somehow rise above it to become
saints of some sort.
How many obstacles can a person overcome? It depends on the person,
largely. I can handle a lot of stress, but if I'm pre-loaded with
stress and deadlines and guests coming, a small thing can seem HUGE
to me in that moment.
This page might be worth looking at too:
http://sandradodd.com/screwitup
If you think of what you could do to make things worse, that creates
an immediate set of what to do to make things better.
When my boys were little they took swimming lessons and would recite
the safety reminders in opposite terms:
Never swim with a buddy, always swim alone.
Swim in a storm.
Run by the pool.
Because they could do that, I knew for certain that they did know the
list.
Sandra
Sandra Dodd
-=-Having a teen that people
frequently remark on as being a great kid, and who is well recieved and
surprises people wherever he goes, seems to me to be a really good
start- so I am going with it.-=-
That's a result, though, when the person's still a teen. <g>
In my life, two of the most frequently remarked upon teens who came
immediately to mind were severely schooled. But their parents are
(one of each sets of parents) some of my favorite people EVER, and so
there must be some natural genetic predisposition to be so awesome I
would like them for 30 years. <bwg> And I got Christmas cards from
both the parents. And those two boys, last time I saw each, beamed
huge smiles and said all the charmingest things to me. They like me,
too. Not unschooling stories.
-=-I don't fool myself that my kids will never make any choices in their
lives that could be considered bad, by others, or by them, later. What
is different here is that I unfailingly see my kids as good people, who
are able to learn and grow from their "mistakes".-=-
I suppose this is a good time to tell the follow-up to Holly's pudding-
wrestling incident. Was she "a good child" that night? We knew where
she was because I helped her find the place, and looked it up again
when she was driving around and confused in that neighborhood. She
had our car, and we knew it. She called us when the trouble arose,
and she sat politely (shivering, and embarrassed) while the police
waited for us to come and get her. She cried on the way home (she
rode with Keith; I drove the car she had taken there). The police
weren't there because people were being great kids, though. There was
too much noise for the neighbors and they discovered a den of pudding
(well, a kiddie pool of pudding) and some underage drinking.
We had to go to re-education class. Keith was out of town or we both
would have gone. Had we both gone, she would've been the only kid
there with both parents in attendance. There were forms the kids had
to fill out (a questionnaire) and a test to take (not hard) at the
end, and each child was given paper and pencil and told to draw the
most important person in his or her life. There were graphs and
statistics on drug abuse and alcohol consumption. There were videos
of drug users and their ugly, awful lives. There was a video of a car
wreck. There was video of the inside of the new improved boys'
detention facility. If that was the new, improved one,the old one
must have been bad. (I saw the old one, when my half brother was
there years ago, 1986 or so.) Holly teared up a couple of times
during all that. Each teen had to go up and show the picture and talk
about who it was and why that person was important. Holly drew me.
Most kids drew the parent who was there. One boy's drawing was like a
professional portrait. We could have found his mom in a big crowd
with that image. Some parents were sweet and gentle with their kids,
there that night. Some were aloof and harsh and the parent and kid
ignored each other, it seemed, even though they were sitting together.
It was a rough few hours, and Holly leaned on me and held my hand a
lot, and felt awful for causing us to be there. They had to
understand and agree to a deal that said if they didn't get in trouble
in the next full year or until they were 18, they could request that
the charges be removed from the public record.
Did unschooling fail because I had to go with my kid to a substance
abuse education class provided by the juvenile justice department?
I think of it not as an absolute fail or succeed situation, but would
Holly have acted differently toward us (or in the situation, or toward
the police officers) if she had been in school all those years rather
than at home?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
frequently remark on as being a great kid, and who is well recieved and
surprises people wherever he goes, seems to me to be a really good
start- so I am going with it.-=-
That's a result, though, when the person's still a teen. <g>
In my life, two of the most frequently remarked upon teens who came
immediately to mind were severely schooled. But their parents are
(one of each sets of parents) some of my favorite people EVER, and so
there must be some natural genetic predisposition to be so awesome I
would like them for 30 years. <bwg> And I got Christmas cards from
both the parents. And those two boys, last time I saw each, beamed
huge smiles and said all the charmingest things to me. They like me,
too. Not unschooling stories.
-=-I don't fool myself that my kids will never make any choices in their
lives that could be considered bad, by others, or by them, later. What
is different here is that I unfailingly see my kids as good people, who
are able to learn and grow from their "mistakes".-=-
I suppose this is a good time to tell the follow-up to Holly's pudding-
wrestling incident. Was she "a good child" that night? We knew where
she was because I helped her find the place, and looked it up again
when she was driving around and confused in that neighborhood. She
had our car, and we knew it. She called us when the trouble arose,
and she sat politely (shivering, and embarrassed) while the police
waited for us to come and get her. She cried on the way home (she
rode with Keith; I drove the car she had taken there). The police
weren't there because people were being great kids, though. There was
too much noise for the neighbors and they discovered a den of pudding
(well, a kiddie pool of pudding) and some underage drinking.
We had to go to re-education class. Keith was out of town or we both
would have gone. Had we both gone, she would've been the only kid
there with both parents in attendance. There were forms the kids had
to fill out (a questionnaire) and a test to take (not hard) at the
end, and each child was given paper and pencil and told to draw the
most important person in his or her life. There were graphs and
statistics on drug abuse and alcohol consumption. There were videos
of drug users and their ugly, awful lives. There was a video of a car
wreck. There was video of the inside of the new improved boys'
detention facility. If that was the new, improved one,the old one
must have been bad. (I saw the old one, when my half brother was
there years ago, 1986 or so.) Holly teared up a couple of times
during all that. Each teen had to go up and show the picture and talk
about who it was and why that person was important. Holly drew me.
Most kids drew the parent who was there. One boy's drawing was like a
professional portrait. We could have found his mom in a big crowd
with that image. Some parents were sweet and gentle with their kids,
there that night. Some were aloof and harsh and the parent and kid
ignored each other, it seemed, even though they were sitting together.
It was a rough few hours, and Holly leaned on me and held my hand a
lot, and felt awful for causing us to be there. They had to
understand and agree to a deal that said if they didn't get in trouble
in the next full year or until they were 18, they could request that
the charges be removed from the public record.
Did unschooling fail because I had to go with my kid to a substance
abuse education class provided by the juvenile justice department?
I think of it not as an absolute fail or succeed situation, but would
Holly have acted differently toward us (or in the situation, or toward
the police officers) if she had been in school all those years rather
than at home?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tealzabet
One of my most important examples in parenting/life discipline vs 'good children' was when my cousin became addicted to pharms one summer --we can play the blame game on 'summer people' or lack of discipline or the new commercial influences in my childhood 'artsy back-to-the-land community' that lived semi-off the grid -- but all of that isn't the point. He got hooked and stole to feed his newly minted habit --- and then he came home, with a state trooper at the end of the summer ---
and he was loved, just loved and cared for on the sofa for several months, with no pressure ----fed and warm inside and out, he began to heal --- while the state sent info pamphlets on control and the bad science of dime store behaviorists (hey I know that world too well, am one lol) and programs for tough love that were thankfully too far travel to for any beaurocrat to push --- and unlike members of many families, he was not punished for his choices and that is a huge difference.
He was loved in a way that he could feel it - and I watched my cousin heal and he is now whole and grown and so is my Aunt's family because it was never broken --
Do any of us wish that experience for ourselves or those we love? --of course not ---- who knows all the elements that came to play that summer that did not result in similar behaviors in any of his siblings -
But the key element is that there was never any question as to his 'goodness' -- and for me that is the heart of RU.
Perhaps the question for me, is not do we break, (children and parents alike) - but how do we heal? ---
Best,
Liz T
and he was loved, just loved and cared for on the sofa for several months, with no pressure ----fed and warm inside and out, he began to heal --- while the state sent info pamphlets on control and the bad science of dime store behaviorists (hey I know that world too well, am one lol) and programs for tough love that were thankfully too far travel to for any beaurocrat to push --- and unlike members of many families, he was not punished for his choices and that is a huge difference.
He was loved in a way that he could feel it - and I watched my cousin heal and he is now whole and grown and so is my Aunt's family because it was never broken --
Do any of us wish that experience for ourselves or those we love? --of course not ---- who knows all the elements that came to play that summer that did not result in similar behaviors in any of his siblings -
But the key element is that there was never any question as to his 'goodness' -- and for me that is the heart of RU.
Perhaps the question for me, is not do we break, (children and parents alike) - but how do we heal? ---
Best,
Liz T
Jenny Cyphers
***We hear on this list, and others, and Sandra's website, and many other RUers websites, etc about all the great kids who have come through this lifestyle. And that is really wonderful. But critics could come along and say to me, "Sure, the great cases are what's talked about... but what about the bad cases?"***
What I find really fascinating about this particular aspect, and I've heard it too, is that most people would look at my older daughter and think "bad", or as one person at a 7-11 said as she walked past, "misguided". It's an image though, one that she loves and lovingly created for herself. If anyone takes the time to get to know her though, they'd be stunned with her honesty and empathy and her altogether sweetness. She smart and creative and deeply compassionate, but she gets kicked out of malls and security gaurds follow her in stores to make sure she doesn't steal anything.
She's admitted to stealing a gatorade at 2 am at a grocery store near our house, on her way home from playing around in the middle of the night with a friend and getting very thirsty. They stopped at the store thinking that it was a 24 hr store and it wasn't and they had a huge pile of gatorades sitting outside of the store with no cameras pointing towards them. I wouldn't have done that, even if I was very thirsty. Still though, she's 15 and has never stolen anything else ever before, so if gatorade is the worst offense, then I'm ok with that! We know kids that regularly steal from stores and other people. It's a huge problem in public schools, so much so that it's a worse offense than assaulting another student. My mother in law, who has worked in the public schools for many years will attest to that, we just had a conversation about it the other day. My daughter knows stealing is wrong, there was no need to lecture about it or tell her
even, she already knows and I think part of why she told me about it was to get it off her conscience.
***So, I'm curious. Are there any Radically Unschooled children, who have grown up, who are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat people badly, lie, etc...? ***
I see both of my kids making good choices among many terrible ones all the time. I truly believe that because their parents believe in them and their power to do good and be good, that they strive for that. They mess up all the time, just like I do, and just like their dad does. Who doesn't? There are no gaurantees that any person will grow up without ever doing something terrible that they regret, or something stupid that they get caught doing.
I have a cousin who is older than I am who was a great kid, happy and smart, he got married and they were very happy until, while working he was severely electrocuted. It changed the very person he was. Everything about him changed because of that one accident. He lives in pain all the time, his bones break easily, he lost is ability to think clearly, he lost his wife because he couldn't cope as a decent person and he barely keeps jobs. Nobody could have perdicted that outcome. He wasn't unschooled, but even unschooled kids are people, susceptible to the unpredictable things in life.
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What I find really fascinating about this particular aspect, and I've heard it too, is that most people would look at my older daughter and think "bad", or as one person at a 7-11 said as she walked past, "misguided". It's an image though, one that she loves and lovingly created for herself. If anyone takes the time to get to know her though, they'd be stunned with her honesty and empathy and her altogether sweetness. She smart and creative and deeply compassionate, but she gets kicked out of malls and security gaurds follow her in stores to make sure she doesn't steal anything.
She's admitted to stealing a gatorade at 2 am at a grocery store near our house, on her way home from playing around in the middle of the night with a friend and getting very thirsty. They stopped at the store thinking that it was a 24 hr store and it wasn't and they had a huge pile of gatorades sitting outside of the store with no cameras pointing towards them. I wouldn't have done that, even if I was very thirsty. Still though, she's 15 and has never stolen anything else ever before, so if gatorade is the worst offense, then I'm ok with that! We know kids that regularly steal from stores and other people. It's a huge problem in public schools, so much so that it's a worse offense than assaulting another student. My mother in law, who has worked in the public schools for many years will attest to that, we just had a conversation about it the other day. My daughter knows stealing is wrong, there was no need to lecture about it or tell her
even, she already knows and I think part of why she told me about it was to get it off her conscience.
***So, I'm curious. Are there any Radically Unschooled children, who have grown up, who are not 'good' people? Who cheat, steal, treat people badly, lie, etc...? ***
I see both of my kids making good choices among many terrible ones all the time. I truly believe that because their parents believe in them and their power to do good and be good, that they strive for that. They mess up all the time, just like I do, and just like their dad does. Who doesn't? There are no gaurantees that any person will grow up without ever doing something terrible that they regret, or something stupid that they get caught doing.
I have a cousin who is older than I am who was a great kid, happy and smart, he got married and they were very happy until, while working he was severely electrocuted. It changed the very person he was. Everything about him changed because of that one accident. He lives in pain all the time, his bones break easily, he lost is ability to think clearly, he lost his wife because he couldn't cope as a decent person and he barely keeps jobs. Nobody could have perdicted that outcome. He wasn't unschooled, but even unschooled kids are people, susceptible to the unpredictable things in life.
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