Struggling in Oregon
Kim Zerbe
I've been thinking about the term "daily struggle" as it was brought up
again recently. Also I've been reading Sandra's Big Book (a lot over the
holiday weekend) and came across it again there.
I don't have a DAILY struggle with my son Damon, but it does seem like we
have a LOT of struggles lately, mainly around leaving the house. I"m getting
depressed about it. Reading about unschooling is not the same as living it!
But it has been good in getting my mind in a place where my ultimate goal is
peace and a good relationship with my child. Damon is 5 and an only child.
I announce in the morning what we have to do today. Usually I get him
dressed while he plays wii or watches tv. I give notice that we are going
somewhere in a few minutes (saying 5 or 10 minutes has little meaning to him
so I haven't been saying actual times). If he is playing a game I say he
should get to a good stopping point and save his game. If we are playing
together, I might say this is our last battle or race or whatever.
At this point he might start saying "I'm not going!" or throw the wii
controller across the room or try to kick me or hit me. What I do next
depends on where we were going and how badly I need to go right then. (At
the very least I say to not throw things or hit people.) Sometimes I say
"Daddy is counting on us, he's really looking forward to seeing you at
lunch." We used to meet his dad for lunch, now we hardly ever go, or if we
do we're late and that's rude since Geoff has to go back to work. Both are
disappointing for Geoff, he either misses us or is mad that we're late.
If he has a class to get to, we need to get there on time and dressed to
play. We have loads of classes available at our local parks & rec centers.
They are very cheap and low commitment, usually only 4 weeks, 45 mins per
session (30 mins for 3yr olds). Damon has taken gymnastics, soccer, tennis,
karate, baseball, and games galore, in this fashion, and several art classes
which are just 1 time sessions. We also did swimming off and on when he was
9-12 mos, it was a drop in Mommy and Me class and he really loved the water.
No committment, just pay when you go.
Now before anyone says I'm overscheduling my child, let me say that my son
is extremely physical, moving all the time, and has enjoyed these classes
since he was very small. It's a great way to get his energy out and be
around other kids and learn something new. He really loved going when he was
3 and 4 and when the new book would come out, I'd tell him what was
available and he would tell me what he was interested in. Usually only 1 or
2 class at a time.
But now (at 5) he has become a huge fan of HOME. He doesn't like to leave
the house. He wants to stay home all day every day and play wii or watch
cartoons. I am usually OK with being inside the house for 1 or 2 days but on
day 3 of not leaving the house, I feel like I'm on a cruise only looking out
the windows at outside and start to get grumpy and mad and really NEED to go
outside and visit the sun and be some place that isn't home. It's also not
light very much these days (sun down by 4:30) and we stay up so late and
sleep in so late, we barely have much daylight to enjoy! If I have an errand
I need to do, I entice Damon by saying we can stop at Game Stop or get a
smoothie at Costco if we're going there. Sometimes that's enough, but often
he still won't want to leave the house.
Lately he has said he hates class and doesn't want to go. I have both let
him stay home and told him he needed to go. Both of those choices have gone
well and both have gone poorly. If I tell him he has to go to class,
sometimes he puts on his own shoes and gets in the car and has a great time
at the class (might even say at the end how much he liked it or tell his dad
about it later). Other times he will kick and scream and I'll put him in the
car without shoes, thinking once we're there he'll have a good time, but
he'll carry on once in the class and throw himself on the floor and say he
hates this class and wants to go home. I'll take him out and talk to him,
and if he continues the fit we'll leave. If he does go back into the class,
it was under coercion and he doesn't pay attention to the teacher or do what
he's supposed to do and disrupts the class. This happened once and he ended
up not allowed turns on the trampoline, his favorite part. He told me why
and said next time he would pay attention so he could get all of his turns,
which he actually did the following week. He is happy when I say he doesn't
have to go to class, but then Geoff is mad at me!
So classes have ended and I have not signed him up for anything else. He
really would benefit from physical classes or playing at the park but he
doesn't want to leave the house. So he is bouncing off the walls at home all
day and fighting me when I say we need to leave the house, even if it
includes something fun for him. I used to stop by this local indoor play
place with slides and bouncers and cars to ride, but he never wants to go
there any more. It's too cold to do much outside. I'm out of ideas.
I think I'm in a rut. No ideas. I've started so many projects, thinking
Damon might be interested and come join me, but I end up coloring or doing a
craft alone, making a fort for no one, cleaning or cooking or baking by
myself (which I HATE by the way, and don't want Damon to grow up hating the
kitchen like I do, I suspect because my mom used to MAKE me help her and it
was never FUN).
If it's not a video game, he's not interested and there's only so much wii I
can play in a day. He's not getting enough excercise and has energy that
keeps him going until 3am. He only goes to bed then because I say I can't
stay up any longer, so if he wants stories read, he'd better come now before
I fall asleep. It's about 50/50 if he throws a fit or goes on his own. It
depends on my approach and if he's really tired or not.
Like I said, I've been reading a lot, and am realizing there has to be a
balance of responsible parenting and freedom of choices. It's just really
hard to see outside my own situation to get there! Any ideas?! I'm stuck!
Kim Zerbe
mom of 1 high energy kid
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
again recently. Also I've been reading Sandra's Big Book (a lot over the
holiday weekend) and came across it again there.
I don't have a DAILY struggle with my son Damon, but it does seem like we
have a LOT of struggles lately, mainly around leaving the house. I"m getting
depressed about it. Reading about unschooling is not the same as living it!
But it has been good in getting my mind in a place where my ultimate goal is
peace and a good relationship with my child. Damon is 5 and an only child.
I announce in the morning what we have to do today. Usually I get him
dressed while he plays wii or watches tv. I give notice that we are going
somewhere in a few minutes (saying 5 or 10 minutes has little meaning to him
so I haven't been saying actual times). If he is playing a game I say he
should get to a good stopping point and save his game. If we are playing
together, I might say this is our last battle or race or whatever.
At this point he might start saying "I'm not going!" or throw the wii
controller across the room or try to kick me or hit me. What I do next
depends on where we were going and how badly I need to go right then. (At
the very least I say to not throw things or hit people.) Sometimes I say
"Daddy is counting on us, he's really looking forward to seeing you at
lunch." We used to meet his dad for lunch, now we hardly ever go, or if we
do we're late and that's rude since Geoff has to go back to work. Both are
disappointing for Geoff, he either misses us or is mad that we're late.
If he has a class to get to, we need to get there on time and dressed to
play. We have loads of classes available at our local parks & rec centers.
They are very cheap and low commitment, usually only 4 weeks, 45 mins per
session (30 mins for 3yr olds). Damon has taken gymnastics, soccer, tennis,
karate, baseball, and games galore, in this fashion, and several art classes
which are just 1 time sessions. We also did swimming off and on when he was
9-12 mos, it was a drop in Mommy and Me class and he really loved the water.
No committment, just pay when you go.
Now before anyone says I'm overscheduling my child, let me say that my son
is extremely physical, moving all the time, and has enjoyed these classes
since he was very small. It's a great way to get his energy out and be
around other kids and learn something new. He really loved going when he was
3 and 4 and when the new book would come out, I'd tell him what was
available and he would tell me what he was interested in. Usually only 1 or
2 class at a time.
But now (at 5) he has become a huge fan of HOME. He doesn't like to leave
the house. He wants to stay home all day every day and play wii or watch
cartoons. I am usually OK with being inside the house for 1 or 2 days but on
day 3 of not leaving the house, I feel like I'm on a cruise only looking out
the windows at outside and start to get grumpy and mad and really NEED to go
outside and visit the sun and be some place that isn't home. It's also not
light very much these days (sun down by 4:30) and we stay up so late and
sleep in so late, we barely have much daylight to enjoy! If I have an errand
I need to do, I entice Damon by saying we can stop at Game Stop or get a
smoothie at Costco if we're going there. Sometimes that's enough, but often
he still won't want to leave the house.
Lately he has said he hates class and doesn't want to go. I have both let
him stay home and told him he needed to go. Both of those choices have gone
well and both have gone poorly. If I tell him he has to go to class,
sometimes he puts on his own shoes and gets in the car and has a great time
at the class (might even say at the end how much he liked it or tell his dad
about it later). Other times he will kick and scream and I'll put him in the
car without shoes, thinking once we're there he'll have a good time, but
he'll carry on once in the class and throw himself on the floor and say he
hates this class and wants to go home. I'll take him out and talk to him,
and if he continues the fit we'll leave. If he does go back into the class,
it was under coercion and he doesn't pay attention to the teacher or do what
he's supposed to do and disrupts the class. This happened once and he ended
up not allowed turns on the trampoline, his favorite part. He told me why
and said next time he would pay attention so he could get all of his turns,
which he actually did the following week. He is happy when I say he doesn't
have to go to class, but then Geoff is mad at me!
So classes have ended and I have not signed him up for anything else. He
really would benefit from physical classes or playing at the park but he
doesn't want to leave the house. So he is bouncing off the walls at home all
day and fighting me when I say we need to leave the house, even if it
includes something fun for him. I used to stop by this local indoor play
place with slides and bouncers and cars to ride, but he never wants to go
there any more. It's too cold to do much outside. I'm out of ideas.
I think I'm in a rut. No ideas. I've started so many projects, thinking
Damon might be interested and come join me, but I end up coloring or doing a
craft alone, making a fort for no one, cleaning or cooking or baking by
myself (which I HATE by the way, and don't want Damon to grow up hating the
kitchen like I do, I suspect because my mom used to MAKE me help her and it
was never FUN).
If it's not a video game, he's not interested and there's only so much wii I
can play in a day. He's not getting enough excercise and has energy that
keeps him going until 3am. He only goes to bed then because I say I can't
stay up any longer, so if he wants stories read, he'd better come now before
I fall asleep. It's about 50/50 if he throws a fit or goes on his own. It
depends on my approach and if he's really tired or not.
Like I said, I've been reading a lot, and am realizing there has to be a
balance of responsible parenting and freedom of choices. It's just really
hard to see outside my own situation to get there! Any ideas?! I'm stuck!
Kim Zerbe
mom of 1 high energy kid
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I announce in the morning what we have to do today.-=-
My "have to" alarm sounded. <g>
It might help to "announce" (in some direct and conversational way)
what you're doing the next day while you're winding down to sleep.
That's always been the deal here. At night people make their
reminders and declarations (not "announcements") so we can checklist
whether we have the right clothes clean, or cars available, or cash on
hand, or whatever. Then as people get up, it's reviewed or people are
reminded.
I wouldn't wake up and announce to my husband what we're doing
tomorrow. Today he went to the doctor. Monday we picked the car up
from the shop. Tuesday he had a singing practice. There's almost
always something we have to cooperate to do, and some are crucial to
do at a certain time, but neither of us "announces," and it helped to
think of speaking to my children in the same ways I would to friends
or their dad.
-=-At this point he might start saying "I'm not going!" or throw the wii
controller across the room or try to kick me or hit me. What I do next
depends on where we were going and how badly I need to go right then. -
=-
Does it help to have everything ready to go, shoes on, car keys in
your pocket, and then play as the last thing?
-=- We used to meet his dad for lunch, now we hardly ever go, or if we
do we're late and that's rude since Geoff has to go back to work. Both
are
disappointing for Geoff, he either misses us or is mad that we're
late.-=-
Those aren't the only two choices, late or miss it.
There's go early with something cool in mind so that you're both there
before his dad.
I've had games playing kids. Do you have a gameboy? It wouldn't need
to be a jazzy brand new one. But that's not my best or favorite
suggestion.
If you leave so early that you can get there early and have a table
and decorate it (arrange) it a bit, that might be fun. If it's a
familiar restaurant, maybe you could order what he wants and have it
ready to eat when he gets there!
-=-Lately he has said he hates class and doesn't want to go. I have
both let
him stay home and told him he needed to go.-=-
He's telling you he does NOT "need" to go. He's saying he needs NOT
to go. If you win by his going and he loses, or he wins by staying
and then you lose, you're being adversaries.
-=- Other times he will kick and scream and I'll put him in the
car without shoes, thinking once we're there he'll have a good time, but
he'll carry on once in the class and throw himself on the floor and
say he
hates this class and wants to go home. I'll take him out and talk to
him,
and if he continues the fit ...-=-
Surely that's not something you want to do every third day. It
doesn't sound like getting out into the sunshine to me at all.
-=-Like I said, I've been reading a lot, and am realizing there has to
be a
balance of responsible parenting and freedom of choices. It's just
really
hard to see outside my own situation to get there! Any ideas?! I'm
stuck!-=-
One clue to your stuckness might be that you don't think "freedom of
choices" is responsible parenting. I think "freedom" is a bad
direction to head, but "choices" is a GREAT direction to head, so if
you stick them together, you get all muddled and don't know which way
to go.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My "have to" alarm sounded. <g>
It might help to "announce" (in some direct and conversational way)
what you're doing the next day while you're winding down to sleep.
That's always been the deal here. At night people make their
reminders and declarations (not "announcements") so we can checklist
whether we have the right clothes clean, or cars available, or cash on
hand, or whatever. Then as people get up, it's reviewed or people are
reminded.
I wouldn't wake up and announce to my husband what we're doing
tomorrow. Today he went to the doctor. Monday we picked the car up
from the shop. Tuesday he had a singing practice. There's almost
always something we have to cooperate to do, and some are crucial to
do at a certain time, but neither of us "announces," and it helped to
think of speaking to my children in the same ways I would to friends
or their dad.
-=-At this point he might start saying "I'm not going!" or throw the wii
controller across the room or try to kick me or hit me. What I do next
depends on where we were going and how badly I need to go right then. -
=-
Does it help to have everything ready to go, shoes on, car keys in
your pocket, and then play as the last thing?
-=- We used to meet his dad for lunch, now we hardly ever go, or if we
do we're late and that's rude since Geoff has to go back to work. Both
are
disappointing for Geoff, he either misses us or is mad that we're
late.-=-
Those aren't the only two choices, late or miss it.
There's go early with something cool in mind so that you're both there
before his dad.
I've had games playing kids. Do you have a gameboy? It wouldn't need
to be a jazzy brand new one. But that's not my best or favorite
suggestion.
If you leave so early that you can get there early and have a table
and decorate it (arrange) it a bit, that might be fun. If it's a
familiar restaurant, maybe you could order what he wants and have it
ready to eat when he gets there!
-=-Lately he has said he hates class and doesn't want to go. I have
both let
him stay home and told him he needed to go.-=-
He's telling you he does NOT "need" to go. He's saying he needs NOT
to go. If you win by his going and he loses, or he wins by staying
and then you lose, you're being adversaries.
-=- Other times he will kick and scream and I'll put him in the
car without shoes, thinking once we're there he'll have a good time, but
he'll carry on once in the class and throw himself on the floor and
say he
hates this class and wants to go home. I'll take him out and talk to
him,
and if he continues the fit ...-=-
Surely that's not something you want to do every third day. It
doesn't sound like getting out into the sunshine to me at all.
-=-Like I said, I've been reading a lot, and am realizing there has to
be a
balance of responsible parenting and freedom of choices. It's just
really
hard to see outside my own situation to get there! Any ideas?! I'm
stuck!-=-
One clue to your stuckness might be that you don't think "freedom of
choices" is responsible parenting. I think "freedom" is a bad
direction to head, but "choices" is a GREAT direction to head, so if
you stick them together, you get all muddled and don't know which way
to go.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
misskatenwa
Hi Kim,
I understand that the weather in Oregon is sometimes like the weather here in Arkansas. Cloudy & cold. There are times when we go 30 to 40 days without sun. I've found since moving here from out west where there is lots of sun... that I have SADD... I need Sun! It's strange too because the longer I go with out sun, the more I loose motivation to do so many things. My kids need sun too. Believe me, their attitudes are so much better with sunshine.
We have dogs. The dogs, bless their hearts, love their walks... so much so that they'll tap on the window when its time to go. So we're outside and walking the dogs. I've found that animal care does wonders in changing attitudes. How can you be upset when your dog is loving you?
Of my three, I have one (the youngest) who would tell you he'd rather stay home than do anything. He's usually happy that he went to whatever after we get home, but getting him out the door sometimes has been difficult. But more than not wanting to leave, he doesn't like being left out. So in his case, his personality has provided the answer for us. I understand that dynamics are different because your son Damon is an only child.
However, as I read your post, I wondered if your son has other people or other children that he really likes to see or play with? Perhaps, you could call with an invitation to meet them somewhere or ask if you could visit? No class. No have-to. Just play or hang-out.
Kate
I understand that the weather in Oregon is sometimes like the weather here in Arkansas. Cloudy & cold. There are times when we go 30 to 40 days without sun. I've found since moving here from out west where there is lots of sun... that I have SADD... I need Sun! It's strange too because the longer I go with out sun, the more I loose motivation to do so many things. My kids need sun too. Believe me, their attitudes are so much better with sunshine.
We have dogs. The dogs, bless their hearts, love their walks... so much so that they'll tap on the window when its time to go. So we're outside and walking the dogs. I've found that animal care does wonders in changing attitudes. How can you be upset when your dog is loving you?
Of my three, I have one (the youngest) who would tell you he'd rather stay home than do anything. He's usually happy that he went to whatever after we get home, but getting him out the door sometimes has been difficult. But more than not wanting to leave, he doesn't like being left out. So in his case, his personality has provided the answer for us. I understand that dynamics are different because your son Damon is an only child.
However, as I read your post, I wondered if your son has other people or other children that he really likes to see or play with? Perhaps, you could call with an invitation to meet them somewhere or ask if you could visit? No class. No have-to. Just play or hang-out.
Kate
Heather
This must be a common situation with some 5 year olds. Before my son was 5 he wanted to go somewhere everyday. Transitions have never been easy for my boys though. Once they are playing their games, or doing anything with intent, it is tough for them to think of anything else at that moment. What seems to work lately is distracting them about an hour or so before we need to go and getting them excited about our outing. If I can somehow get them on another path without being controlling or condescending in anyway it helps us a lot.
Some transition ideas that have helped me lately with my 5 year old:
Tickle wars
Hide and Seek for 5 to 15 minutes in the house
Wrestling on the bed
Art projects
Balloon games
Puzzles
Moon Sand
Play Doh
DS in the car
DS in bed for an hour or even half an hour while we cuddle
New stack of books from the library every 5 days for bedtime ritual
Put shoes on when you get there if it makes leaving easier. Or help him put them on, if he is willing. Boots are handy for us in winter.
Have fun and enjoy your dynamo!
~Heather Brown
Mom to Holden (8) and Camden (5)
Some transition ideas that have helped me lately with my 5 year old:
Tickle wars
Hide and Seek for 5 to 15 minutes in the house
Wrestling on the bed
Art projects
Balloon games
Puzzles
Moon Sand
Play Doh
DS in the car
DS in bed for an hour or even half an hour while we cuddle
New stack of books from the library every 5 days for bedtime ritual
Put shoes on when you get there if it makes leaving easier. Or help him put them on, if he is willing. Boots are handy for us in winter.
Have fun and enjoy your dynamo!
~Heather Brown
Mom to Holden (8) and Camden (5)
--- In [email protected], "Kim Zerbe" <kim.zerbe@...> wrote:
> But now (at 5) he has become a huge fan of HOME. He doesn't like to leave the house. He wants to stay home all day every day and play wii or watch cartoons.
Jenny Cyphers
***I announce in the morning what we have to do today. Usually I get him
dressed while he plays wii or watches tv. I give notice that we are going
somewhere in a few minutes (saying 5 or 10 minutes has little meaning to him
so I haven't been saying actual times). If he is playing a game I say he
should get to a good stopping point and save his game. If we are playing
together, I might say this is our last battle or race or whatever.***
Something that I've done is to truly evaluate the need to leave and at what time. The less I say about it the better. If we truly need to leave in 10 min, then I make sure that everything else is ready to go and that the whole 10 minutes is completely devoted to that child that needs to leave with me. If we really do need to leave and my child doesn't want to go, engaging in a struggle is the very last thing I want to do. I've said to my children at times like this, that we can either do this the easy way or the hard way, but ulimately we will be in the car heading away from home. I only do this if there is truly a need to leave. That's not something for a grocery store outing, or a class that can be missed, or a play date that has flexibility for lateness. The less you do this, and the more you allow for flexibility and the ability for the child to NOT go, the easier it gets.
***Now before anyone says I'm overscheduling my child, let me say that my son
is extremely physical, moving all the time, and has enjoyed these classes
since he was very small. It's a great way to get his energy out and be
around other kids and learn something new.***
I'd find a way to do this physical activity at home for now. Has Damon discovered stairs as a fun thing to slide down? It also occurs to me that Damon may really appreciate obstacle courses.
***It's also not light very much these days (sun down by 4:30) and we stay up so late and
sleep in so late, we barely have much daylight to enjoy! ***
I deal with this too. I'm working on bumping our schedule earlier, slowly and incrementally. I like the daylight and need it and suspect that my children do too.
***Lately he has said he hates class and doesn't want to go.***
I wouldn't force classes at all, one way or the other. If he does indeed express an interest, keep a handy list of drop in activities. I have never had success forcing classes on anyone, ever, as a parent, and as an instructor.
*** I used to stop by this local indoor play
place with slides and bouncers and cars to ride, but he never wants to go
there any more. It's too cold to do much outside. I'm out of ideas.***
I'm thinking that it's not novel anymore. If you stop going for a while, don't even mention it, a couple of months down the road, he may be totally into the idea.
***I think I'm in a rut. No ideas. I've started so many projects, thinking
Damon might be interested and come join me, but I end up coloring or doing a
craft alone, making a fort for no one, cleaning or cooking or baking by
myself (which I HATE by the way, and don't want Damon to grow up hating the
kitchen like I do, I suspect because my mom used to MAKE me help her and it
was never FUN). ***
Be with him where he is and do things near him. If you get bored watching and playing video games, do something beside him that you do enjoy doing.
As to the kitchen stuff, I can relate a bit. I've never been a huge fan of cooking, but, I've found ways and things to enjoy about being in the kitchen. I really enjoy puting a big pot of something on the stove, something that makes the house smell good and that I can go in every once in a while to check on and taste test and add ingredients to. I LOVE my cuisinart because I can make baked goods really easily with it's use. I make gluten free things and it requires a different kind of mixing of ingredients than regular cookies and biscuits and baked goods. I love having a bread machine because I can make bread very easily and doughs that can be made into pizzas or bread sticks. They make the house smell good and my family likes it and my kitchen doesn't have to be spotlessly clean to use these things.
***If it's not a video game, he's not interested and there's only so much wii I
can play in a day. He's not getting enough excercise and has energy that
keeps him going until 3am. ***
Does the wii have any games that are physical that Damon would enjoy? I don't have a wii, so I'm not familiar with the games or the platform. I'd also really consider getting a handheld game that can be taken along on outings. We got Chamille her first handheld device when she was 4, it was a gameboy color, and she loved it. It made it way easier to leave the house and car rides were pleasant.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dressed while he plays wii or watches tv. I give notice that we are going
somewhere in a few minutes (saying 5 or 10 minutes has little meaning to him
so I haven't been saying actual times). If he is playing a game I say he
should get to a good stopping point and save his game. If we are playing
together, I might say this is our last battle or race or whatever.***
Something that I've done is to truly evaluate the need to leave and at what time. The less I say about it the better. If we truly need to leave in 10 min, then I make sure that everything else is ready to go and that the whole 10 minutes is completely devoted to that child that needs to leave with me. If we really do need to leave and my child doesn't want to go, engaging in a struggle is the very last thing I want to do. I've said to my children at times like this, that we can either do this the easy way or the hard way, but ulimately we will be in the car heading away from home. I only do this if there is truly a need to leave. That's not something for a grocery store outing, or a class that can be missed, or a play date that has flexibility for lateness. The less you do this, and the more you allow for flexibility and the ability for the child to NOT go, the easier it gets.
***Now before anyone says I'm overscheduling my child, let me say that my son
is extremely physical, moving all the time, and has enjoyed these classes
since he was very small. It's a great way to get his energy out and be
around other kids and learn something new.***
I'd find a way to do this physical activity at home for now. Has Damon discovered stairs as a fun thing to slide down? It also occurs to me that Damon may really appreciate obstacle courses.
***It's also not light very much these days (sun down by 4:30) and we stay up so late and
sleep in so late, we barely have much daylight to enjoy! ***
I deal with this too. I'm working on bumping our schedule earlier, slowly and incrementally. I like the daylight and need it and suspect that my children do too.
***Lately he has said he hates class and doesn't want to go.***
I wouldn't force classes at all, one way or the other. If he does indeed express an interest, keep a handy list of drop in activities. I have never had success forcing classes on anyone, ever, as a parent, and as an instructor.
*** I used to stop by this local indoor play
place with slides and bouncers and cars to ride, but he never wants to go
there any more. It's too cold to do much outside. I'm out of ideas.***
I'm thinking that it's not novel anymore. If you stop going for a while, don't even mention it, a couple of months down the road, he may be totally into the idea.
***I think I'm in a rut. No ideas. I've started so many projects, thinking
Damon might be interested and come join me, but I end up coloring or doing a
craft alone, making a fort for no one, cleaning or cooking or baking by
myself (which I HATE by the way, and don't want Damon to grow up hating the
kitchen like I do, I suspect because my mom used to MAKE me help her and it
was never FUN). ***
Be with him where he is and do things near him. If you get bored watching and playing video games, do something beside him that you do enjoy doing.
As to the kitchen stuff, I can relate a bit. I've never been a huge fan of cooking, but, I've found ways and things to enjoy about being in the kitchen. I really enjoy puting a big pot of something on the stove, something that makes the house smell good and that I can go in every once in a while to check on and taste test and add ingredients to. I LOVE my cuisinart because I can make baked goods really easily with it's use. I make gluten free things and it requires a different kind of mixing of ingredients than regular cookies and biscuits and baked goods. I love having a bread machine because I can make bread very easily and doughs that can be made into pizzas or bread sticks. They make the house smell good and my family likes it and my kitchen doesn't have to be spotlessly clean to use these things.
***If it's not a video game, he's not interested and there's only so much wii I
can play in a day. He's not getting enough excercise and has energy that
keeps him going until 3am. ***
Does the wii have any games that are physical that Damon would enjoy? I don't have a wii, so I'm not familiar with the games or the platform. I'd also really consider getting a handheld game that can be taken along on outings. We got Chamille her first handheld device when she was 4, it was a gameboy color, and she loved it. It made it way easier to leave the house and car rides were pleasant.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Zerbe
<< My "have to" alarm sounded. <g>
It might help to "announce" (in some direct and conversational way)
what you're doing the next day while you're winding down to sleep. >>
Well, that is really what I do. It's not like an announcement or demand. It
sounds a bit nit-picky but I should be more careful with my words. I am
already quite verbose and worry about how much I should include in my posts
so that people get the idea of what I'm asking without leaving out pertinent
info. (I've seen replies where they give more info that would have been nice
to know up front.) But then my stuff gets pretty long.
So I should have mentioned that I do bring things up the night before so
it's not a total surprise that we have somewhere to go. Damon still sleeps
with us and we read stories in bed so I'd probably mention it then. Like
when there is an unschooling gathering I'll let him know that a bunch of our
friends will be meeting at the zoo tomorrow. He'll seem excited. I'll even
bring up some of the things we might see or do there, like they have been
working on the monkey habitat forever and it's finally finished and we
haven't seen it yet, so we should be sure to check that out. Or if we just
watched Happy Feet recently I might say we could check out the penquins.
While he seems to want to go the night before, he'll totally change his mind
the next day when faced with leaving the house. I'll try to prep him early
and involve him in packing a lunch or snacks, but if he gets on the wii all
bets are off. He'll say he's not going anywhere today. I might tell him who
I know is planning to go (although the other kids could choose to stay home
too!) or express my sadness that I had hoped to see MY friends today too. I
might ask if he's sure he really doesn't want to go, but he'll usually say
No Way. So I have to give up my plans to see my unschooling friends in
person. It's a real bummer! Sometimes I really need to talk to a PERSON face
to face and can't! I could call but don't want to interrupt their time at
the zoo. So I have to try to call someone later. That usually makes me feel
better, especially if their kids have ever chosen to NOT go to the zoo and
they've been bummed about missing the outing.
<< Those aren't the only two choices, late or miss it. There's go early
with something cool in mind so that you're both there before his dad. >>
OK, so I hadn't thought of that! On a very RARE occasion we have been early
to lunch, but that would be like if we had already been somewhere else and
were in the car with plenty of time to get to the lunch place. Then Geoff is
late, but we don't care since we are not the ones on a time schedule. I have
ordered for him then too. It's funny how bleak things look from my POV when
I'm in a rut and someone outside of it can suggest a simple solution that
totally works, I just hadn't thought of it! This really is a great idea! We
have also bought Subway subs to his office before and picked him up and
eaten at the park across the street. That is good when the weather is nice
(not now).
<< One clue to your stuckness might be that you don't think "freedom
of choices" is responsible parenting. I think "freedom" is a bad direction
to head, but "choices" is a GREAT direction to head, so if you stick them
together, you get all muddled and don't know which way to go. >>
Yes. I am stuck on this. I was off in the direction that FREEDOM was good
and "trying to get him to do what I want him to do" was bad. In my initial
readings and exposure to unschooling (2 yrs ago) it was hard to figure out
how to be a good parent! I watched a friend who seemed to know what she was
doing/talking about, but she seemed to me to be missing something. It was
like her kid got to do whatever he wanted and she only stepped in when there
was a conflict, but usually too late, and she didn't seem to know how to
handle things most of the time. Reluctant to step in. I decided to stop
trying to be like her! I had to read more on my own and find some new
friends. (I think she had to find her own way too.)
I'm fine with Choices. I've always managed to offer lots of choices and been
relatively OK with the outcomes. (Still dealing with childhood baggage and
trying to honor the child within me who never got to eat cake for breakfast
and often suppressing the urge to tell my son things like that.)
Anyway, back to the point. There ARE times when you need your child to do
certain things and there are ways to get him to do them. (I just read the
section about bribery and how it is OK to promise a child ice cream if he
does X for you, maybe sits in the cart while you grocery shop. That is
sinking in, I used to be confused on that, thinking it was bribery and that
was BAD.) But these times don't happen as often as people think! I've seen
mothers yank their kids off the playground crying because she said they had
to get to the grocery store or bank or wherever and be home to fix dinner by
5. I am SO not like them! I'm fine with playing as long as he wants to. I'm
fine with shopping when he's done and missing the bank because it closed at
6. It's open the next day. I'm all too fine with not fixing dinner at a
certain time every day! If we are so late with the grocery shopping and I
know Geoff is on his way home (I can call him and find out where he is) I
might offer to pick something up and bring it home or ask him to do that if
I have melting stuff in the car. If nothing is in danger of melting, and we
are both in the car, we could meet somewhere for dinner!
I just get stuck on those rare times when we really do need to go somewhere
at a certain time. It feels like a bad thing to say you need to get in the
car now. Well, the tone of that is bad! Like maybe a dentist appointment. He
wants to stay home. I need to go to this appt. On time. Prepping him the
night before is good, reminding him in the morning is good, making sure he
is dressed and ready to go way ahead of time is crutial, but getting him
away from the TV is nearly impossible. I think it would be great to have a
DS, for my own sanity! Geoff worries about all the typical things like how
we'll lose him even more to electronics, it's a money suck, time waster,
etc. I see it as a way to get Damon in the car! And occupied when I need to
do things he doesn't want to do! Plus Damon really wants one. Maybe I can
convince Geoff based on the merits of us being on time for lunches. (We have
not had lunch with him all 4 days of this week.)
Thanks for the ideas and aha moments! Seeing the light again.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It might help to "announce" (in some direct and conversational way)
what you're doing the next day while you're winding down to sleep. >>
Well, that is really what I do. It's not like an announcement or demand. It
sounds a bit nit-picky but I should be more careful with my words. I am
already quite verbose and worry about how much I should include in my posts
so that people get the idea of what I'm asking without leaving out pertinent
info. (I've seen replies where they give more info that would have been nice
to know up front.) But then my stuff gets pretty long.
So I should have mentioned that I do bring things up the night before so
it's not a total surprise that we have somewhere to go. Damon still sleeps
with us and we read stories in bed so I'd probably mention it then. Like
when there is an unschooling gathering I'll let him know that a bunch of our
friends will be meeting at the zoo tomorrow. He'll seem excited. I'll even
bring up some of the things we might see or do there, like they have been
working on the monkey habitat forever and it's finally finished and we
haven't seen it yet, so we should be sure to check that out. Or if we just
watched Happy Feet recently I might say we could check out the penquins.
While he seems to want to go the night before, he'll totally change his mind
the next day when faced with leaving the house. I'll try to prep him early
and involve him in packing a lunch or snacks, but if he gets on the wii all
bets are off. He'll say he's not going anywhere today. I might tell him who
I know is planning to go (although the other kids could choose to stay home
too!) or express my sadness that I had hoped to see MY friends today too. I
might ask if he's sure he really doesn't want to go, but he'll usually say
No Way. So I have to give up my plans to see my unschooling friends in
person. It's a real bummer! Sometimes I really need to talk to a PERSON face
to face and can't! I could call but don't want to interrupt their time at
the zoo. So I have to try to call someone later. That usually makes me feel
better, especially if their kids have ever chosen to NOT go to the zoo and
they've been bummed about missing the outing.
<< Those aren't the only two choices, late or miss it. There's go early
with something cool in mind so that you're both there before his dad. >>
OK, so I hadn't thought of that! On a very RARE occasion we have been early
to lunch, but that would be like if we had already been somewhere else and
were in the car with plenty of time to get to the lunch place. Then Geoff is
late, but we don't care since we are not the ones on a time schedule. I have
ordered for him then too. It's funny how bleak things look from my POV when
I'm in a rut and someone outside of it can suggest a simple solution that
totally works, I just hadn't thought of it! This really is a great idea! We
have also bought Subway subs to his office before and picked him up and
eaten at the park across the street. That is good when the weather is nice
(not now).
<< One clue to your stuckness might be that you don't think "freedom
of choices" is responsible parenting. I think "freedom" is a bad direction
to head, but "choices" is a GREAT direction to head, so if you stick them
together, you get all muddled and don't know which way to go. >>
Yes. I am stuck on this. I was off in the direction that FREEDOM was good
and "trying to get him to do what I want him to do" was bad. In my initial
readings and exposure to unschooling (2 yrs ago) it was hard to figure out
how to be a good parent! I watched a friend who seemed to know what she was
doing/talking about, but she seemed to me to be missing something. It was
like her kid got to do whatever he wanted and she only stepped in when there
was a conflict, but usually too late, and she didn't seem to know how to
handle things most of the time. Reluctant to step in. I decided to stop
trying to be like her! I had to read more on my own and find some new
friends. (I think she had to find her own way too.)
I'm fine with Choices. I've always managed to offer lots of choices and been
relatively OK with the outcomes. (Still dealing with childhood baggage and
trying to honor the child within me who never got to eat cake for breakfast
and often suppressing the urge to tell my son things like that.)
Anyway, back to the point. There ARE times when you need your child to do
certain things and there are ways to get him to do them. (I just read the
section about bribery and how it is OK to promise a child ice cream if he
does X for you, maybe sits in the cart while you grocery shop. That is
sinking in, I used to be confused on that, thinking it was bribery and that
was BAD.) But these times don't happen as often as people think! I've seen
mothers yank their kids off the playground crying because she said they had
to get to the grocery store or bank or wherever and be home to fix dinner by
5. I am SO not like them! I'm fine with playing as long as he wants to. I'm
fine with shopping when he's done and missing the bank because it closed at
6. It's open the next day. I'm all too fine with not fixing dinner at a
certain time every day! If we are so late with the grocery shopping and I
know Geoff is on his way home (I can call him and find out where he is) I
might offer to pick something up and bring it home or ask him to do that if
I have melting stuff in the car. If nothing is in danger of melting, and we
are both in the car, we could meet somewhere for dinner!
I just get stuck on those rare times when we really do need to go somewhere
at a certain time. It feels like a bad thing to say you need to get in the
car now. Well, the tone of that is bad! Like maybe a dentist appointment. He
wants to stay home. I need to go to this appt. On time. Prepping him the
night before is good, reminding him in the morning is good, making sure he
is dressed and ready to go way ahead of time is crutial, but getting him
away from the TV is nearly impossible. I think it would be great to have a
DS, for my own sanity! Geoff worries about all the typical things like how
we'll lose him even more to electronics, it's a money suck, time waster,
etc. I see it as a way to get Damon in the car! And occupied when I need to
do things he doesn't want to do! Plus Damon really wants one. Maybe I can
convince Geoff based on the merits of us being on time for lunches. (We have
not had lunch with him all 4 days of this week.)
Thanks for the ideas and aha moments! Seeing the light again.
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
drcotter
Hi Kim-
My oldest had a similar thing with classes too. When Rebecca (now 6) was younger, she loved going to classes, and did swimming and gymnastics and loved it. Somewhere around 4 or 5 she didn't really want to go off to the classes. She still likes the activities, but wants to do them when she's in the mood, not when they're pre-scheduled :) Also, she likes to pick what she wants to do at the class (balance beam instead of bars, hide and seek instead of trampoline, etc.), so the class format doesn't really work for her anymore. If we can find places that offer it, she likes the open gym/free play format, where she can do whatever she feels like.
Also, at times when she wouldn't want to go to the zoo or children's museum (even to meet friends), she'd still like to go to friends' houses to play. So maybe Damon would like some open gym times, or more playdates at friends' houses? Maybe friends with video game systems? That way he could play those and you could visit with another adult?
Another thought: could your husband come home for lunch with Damon once in a while? Then he'd be coming to you guys, have time with Damon, and if you wanted to get outside maybe you could pop out for an hour or so?
-Dawn S.
My oldest had a similar thing with classes too. When Rebecca (now 6) was younger, she loved going to classes, and did swimming and gymnastics and loved it. Somewhere around 4 or 5 she didn't really want to go off to the classes. She still likes the activities, but wants to do them when she's in the mood, not when they're pre-scheduled :) Also, she likes to pick what she wants to do at the class (balance beam instead of bars, hide and seek instead of trampoline, etc.), so the class format doesn't really work for her anymore. If we can find places that offer it, she likes the open gym/free play format, where she can do whatever she feels like.
Also, at times when she wouldn't want to go to the zoo or children's museum (even to meet friends), she'd still like to go to friends' houses to play. So maybe Damon would like some open gym times, or more playdates at friends' houses? Maybe friends with video game systems? That way he could play those and you could visit with another adult?
Another thought: could your husband come home for lunch with Damon once in a while? Then he'd be coming to you guys, have time with Damon, and if you wanted to get outside maybe you could pop out for an hour or so?
-Dawn S.