wearing out our welcome
Christine
Hi, I'm new to the group as well as parenting and would so appreciate some suggestions of strategies I can employ to help my daughter end a visit more joyfully.
I have 3 year old twin girls, who are free, unscheduled, nursed on demand, and share our bed. They both LOVE their extended family and when we visit our grandparents or cousins, have a hard time leaving. I don't even bother with short visits, and I warn people not to invite us over unless they want us there for a few hours.
If my spouse is with me, we give the children fair warning that we have to leave soon, and when it's time, we each pick up one and carry them out to the car together. In this situation, I have one daughter who consistently leaves willingly and happily, and another who is devastated, and cries all the way home. We comfort her by reciting her favorite story of the moment while we drive. Her pain at leaving is awful, and it breaks my heart.
If I am alone with them visiting, I'm in trouble. Twins working together have amazing skills to thwart and elude a single parent trying to catch them and escort them out the door. Frankly, if it weren't for the fact the we begin to intrude on someones space, schedule, or whatever, I'd sink back down on the couch and enjoy a cup of tea, while I waited for them to either fall asleep, or ask to go home. They have more staying power and focus than that, and because of our lifestyle, we live on a completely different schedule than the rest of our family.
While I haven't tried anything creative, like leaving a trail of reese's pieces to the car door(that just popped into my head, and I'm gonna try it!), I have tried reasoning with them, and pointing out that so and so wants to have their dinner, or needs to get ready for bed, and that we have to respect the needs of others. Or that I need to get back home to do work I've agreed to do, and make some money. Once in a while this is successful, but mostly not. I know that these talks are not in vain and I will continue to do this.
Right now, what happens is I get anxiety about wearing out our welcome, and I become a drill sergeant after talks have broken down. "That's it, I've had it! Now you do this, and you do that, and get your coats and get your shoes..." I don't like being a drill sergeant, and because often, when I holler, the floodgates open and I rant and rave as well, about feelings of martyrdom.
And I still hear crying all the way home, and have too much adrenaline coursing through my veins to recite funny stories.
Do I have to give up visiting, and hope people come over our house?
And can anyone break down what's going on with my daughter who so doesn't want to leave? I think it's more than just having so much fun and not wanting it to end. We have fun at our house too, but she's always up for going out.
Thanks
I have 3 year old twin girls, who are free, unscheduled, nursed on demand, and share our bed. They both LOVE their extended family and when we visit our grandparents or cousins, have a hard time leaving. I don't even bother with short visits, and I warn people not to invite us over unless they want us there for a few hours.
If my spouse is with me, we give the children fair warning that we have to leave soon, and when it's time, we each pick up one and carry them out to the car together. In this situation, I have one daughter who consistently leaves willingly and happily, and another who is devastated, and cries all the way home. We comfort her by reciting her favorite story of the moment while we drive. Her pain at leaving is awful, and it breaks my heart.
If I am alone with them visiting, I'm in trouble. Twins working together have amazing skills to thwart and elude a single parent trying to catch them and escort them out the door. Frankly, if it weren't for the fact the we begin to intrude on someones space, schedule, or whatever, I'd sink back down on the couch and enjoy a cup of tea, while I waited for them to either fall asleep, or ask to go home. They have more staying power and focus than that, and because of our lifestyle, we live on a completely different schedule than the rest of our family.
While I haven't tried anything creative, like leaving a trail of reese's pieces to the car door(that just popped into my head, and I'm gonna try it!), I have tried reasoning with them, and pointing out that so and so wants to have their dinner, or needs to get ready for bed, and that we have to respect the needs of others. Or that I need to get back home to do work I've agreed to do, and make some money. Once in a while this is successful, but mostly not. I know that these talks are not in vain and I will continue to do this.
Right now, what happens is I get anxiety about wearing out our welcome, and I become a drill sergeant after talks have broken down. "That's it, I've had it! Now you do this, and you do that, and get your coats and get your shoes..." I don't like being a drill sergeant, and because often, when I holler, the floodgates open and I rant and rave as well, about feelings of martyrdom.
And I still hear crying all the way home, and have too much adrenaline coursing through my veins to recite funny stories.
Do I have to give up visiting, and hope people come over our house?
And can anyone break down what's going on with my daughter who so doesn't want to leave? I think it's more than just having so much fun and not wanting it to end. We have fun at our house too, but she's always up for going out.
Thanks
Sandra Dodd
-=-And can anyone break down what's going on with my daughter who so
doesn't want to leave? I think it's more than just having so much fun
and not wanting it to end. We have fun at our house too, but she's
always up for going out.-=-
I think she's REALLY enjoying being in the different environment, and
with different people. And that's learning. And she's engaged.
But as to trying to reason with her about people needing to make
dinner or you needing to go home, I would just go with "It's time."
If the visit is scheduled until 3:00, when it's nearly 3:00 say "The
visit is nearly over. We have to leave when visits (or parties, or
movies) end, because it's part of the way we thank them, is to keep
our end of the deal.
It's an if then. "You can come over at noon if you leave at 3:00."
When people overstay and throw a fit, it's less likely they'll be
welcomed back. It's true of restaurants and hotels and swimming pools
and everywhere. But talk to her about this when it's between visits,
not when you're there.
As to getting twins out, maybe you could ask the one who finds it
easier to leave to help you get things out to the car while you carry
her sister. It doesn't need to be seen as splitting their team and
it being you two against the other one. It could be "How can we help
her be happier and not embarrassed and frustrated?" The other twin
might have some ideas.
My oldest, Kirby, was that way when he was three, four, five.
Sometimes I carried him out crying, but I would say something like "I
think this means he had a really nice time. Thank you." And in the
car I would say I knew he didn't want to go, but I wanted that mom to
be willing to invite him back over, so it was better to let them have
their house back because it was time.
They don't really understand "time" but they don't really understand
making dinner or going home to work, either, so go with what's real.
It's not a negotiable thing, when someone visits me. If they say
they'll be here two days and they decide to stay five days and it's
their thought and not my decision, how is that okay? Way different if
I'm having so much fun I ask them if they can arrange to stay
longer. So it's not a half and half between you and the other mom.
If you say "She needs to make dinner," then it seems that if you could
only bring her a pizza or something, the child could stay.
So go for clarity and real, honest kid-world reasons. They will be
considered good guests if they leave nicely on time, and good guests
are more likely to be invited back. It's an investment at a level
even little kids can understand.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
doesn't want to leave? I think it's more than just having so much fun
and not wanting it to end. We have fun at our house too, but she's
always up for going out.-=-
I think she's REALLY enjoying being in the different environment, and
with different people. And that's learning. And she's engaged.
But as to trying to reason with her about people needing to make
dinner or you needing to go home, I would just go with "It's time."
If the visit is scheduled until 3:00, when it's nearly 3:00 say "The
visit is nearly over. We have to leave when visits (or parties, or
movies) end, because it's part of the way we thank them, is to keep
our end of the deal.
It's an if then. "You can come over at noon if you leave at 3:00."
When people overstay and throw a fit, it's less likely they'll be
welcomed back. It's true of restaurants and hotels and swimming pools
and everywhere. But talk to her about this when it's between visits,
not when you're there.
As to getting twins out, maybe you could ask the one who finds it
easier to leave to help you get things out to the car while you carry
her sister. It doesn't need to be seen as splitting their team and
it being you two against the other one. It could be "How can we help
her be happier and not embarrassed and frustrated?" The other twin
might have some ideas.
My oldest, Kirby, was that way when he was three, four, five.
Sometimes I carried him out crying, but I would say something like "I
think this means he had a really nice time. Thank you." And in the
car I would say I knew he didn't want to go, but I wanted that mom to
be willing to invite him back over, so it was better to let them have
their house back because it was time.
They don't really understand "time" but they don't really understand
making dinner or going home to work, either, so go with what's real.
It's not a negotiable thing, when someone visits me. If they say
they'll be here two days and they decide to stay five days and it's
their thought and not my decision, how is that okay? Way different if
I'm having so much fun I ask them if they can arrange to stay
longer. So it's not a half and half between you and the other mom.
If you say "She needs to make dinner," then it seems that if you could
only bring her a pizza or something, the child could stay.
So go for clarity and real, honest kid-world reasons. They will be
considered good guests if they leave nicely on time, and good guests
are more likely to be invited back. It's an investment at a level
even little kids can understand.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Some kids find it hard to transition from one activity to another specially if they are having fun.
Things I did with my son was to start the goodbyes early and go around saying our goodbyes to the people and the house, giving him time to shift .
Another way was to have a plan for after. Like going to get ice-cream or donuts at a favorite place.
So the plan was to go to the park and then go get ice-cream or pick a toy at the dollar store or get donuts or go get some play-dough to play at home ( cheap and fun).
So they have something to look forward to when they leave.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Things I did with my son was to start the goodbyes early and go around saying our goodbyes to the people and the house, giving him time to shift .
Another way was to have a plan for after. Like going to get ice-cream or donuts at a favorite place.
So the plan was to go to the park and then go get ice-cream or pick a toy at the dollar store or get donuts or go get some play-dough to play at home ( cheap and fun).
So they have something to look forward to when they leave.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christine
I'm going to try this approach, I've avoided saying, "if we don't leave now, we won't be invited back!" which might be true, but sounds like a threat. I like the the idea of explaining it your way, a gesture of thanks and keeping our end of the deal. I've been groping for the right way to explain it to her and this feels better.
Also, it's clear, I need to determine a time when it is appropriate to leave, and reinforce the idea of leaving in the above manner before we go.
I just explained it to my daughter and she nodded understanding, that's positive. I'll keep at it and see how it goes.
Hey, do you have a kid way to explain those times when it's not an appropriate or comfortable time for me to nurse? That is the other area of contention in our lives, right now. Sometimes they just ask for too much, (not dissimilar to the overstaying our welcome) I don't want to interrupt my dinner simply because one or both prefers human milk to water, juice or the food available at that moment, for example. I've been at a loss with this one, too. When I've gone away for the day, they aren't worried about it at all, and it certainly isn't an issue of having been limited!
-c
Also, it's clear, I need to determine a time when it is appropriate to leave, and reinforce the idea of leaving in the above manner before we go.
I just explained it to my daughter and she nodded understanding, that's positive. I'll keep at it and see how it goes.
Hey, do you have a kid way to explain those times when it's not an appropriate or comfortable time for me to nurse? That is the other area of contention in our lives, right now. Sometimes they just ask for too much, (not dissimilar to the overstaying our welcome) I don't want to interrupt my dinner simply because one or both prefers human milk to water, juice or the food available at that moment, for example. I've been at a loss with this one, too. When I've gone away for the day, they aren't worried about it at all, and it certainly isn't an issue of having been limited!
-c
>
> But as to trying to reason with her about people needing to make
> dinner or you needing to go home, I would just go with "It's time."
> If the visit is scheduled until 3:00, when it's nearly 3:00 say "The
> visit is nearly over. We have to leave when visits (or parties, or
> movies) end, because it's part of the way we thank them, is to keep
> our end of the deal.
>
> It's an if then. "You can come over at noon if you leave at 3:00."
> When people overstay and throw a fit, it's less likely they'll be
> welcomed back. It's true of restaurants and hotels and swimming pools
> and everywhere. But talk to her about this when it's between visits,
> not when you're there.
>
> As to getting twins out, maybe you could ask the one who finds it
> easier to leave to help you get things out to the car while you carry
> her sister. It doesn't need to be seen as splitting their team and
> it being you two against the other one. It could be "How can we help
> her be happier and not embarrassed and frustrated?" The other twin
> might have some ideas.
>
> My oldest, Kirby, was that way when he was three, four, five.
> Sometimes I carried him out crying, but I would say something like "I
> think this means he had a really nice time. Thank you." And in the
> car I would say I knew he didn't want to go, but I wanted that mom to
> be willing to invite him back over, so it was better to let them have
> their house back because it was time.
>
> They don't really understand "time" but they don't really understand
> making dinner or going home to work, either, so go with what's real.
> It's not a negotiable thing, when someone visits me. If they say
> they'll be here two days and they decide to stay five days and it's
> their thought and not my decision, how is that okay? Way different if
> I'm having so much fun I ask them if they can arrange to stay
> longer. So it's not a half and half between you and the other mom.
> If you say "She needs to make dinner," then it seems that if you could
> only bring her a pizza or something, the child could stay.
>
> So go for clarity and real, honest kid-world reasons. They will be
> considered good guests if they leave nicely on time, and good guests
> are more likely to be invited back. It's an investment at a level
> even little kids can understand.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Pam Sorooshian
I have a few ideas for you. I had one of my three who was often like
this, too.
Some of the problem is getting the momentum going in the direction of
leaving, rather than the kids trying to play full on right up to the
moment of leaving. They need to ramp the playing down and turn toward
leaving, then take a little step in that direction, etc. Giving them
lots of warning can sometimes help with that, but sometimes it is just
annoying and builds UP the frustration of leaving. Imagine you're
playing, intensely involved - totally into the play world. Someone keeps
counting down how much more time is left - taking you out of the world
you are so enjoying, over and over. You get frustrated at the constant
interruptions and when they finally say, "Okay, time to go now," your
frustration level boils over. Although the advice to give lots of and
frequent warnings before time to go, I think some parents are very rude
about it. Give ONE warning, maybe 5 to 10 minutes ahead of time, but
don't do a countdown.
So - instead of it seeming to suddenly be "time to leave" - better to
get them out of what they're doing and getting ready to leave, right? We
had goodbye rituals - at friends' houses, the goodbye ritual was that I
would go and join them as they played and show an interest in what they
were doing. I'd ask a few questions, maybe, "Who is the mommy?" "Who is
being the baby?" Just start to talk "about" their play a little. If they
were building things, I'd ask questions about that. In other words, take
them a bit out of their play world and more into looking "at" it. Hope
that makes sense. Then I'd say, "Okay, well, I'm here to help clean up -
so how can I help?" I'd get them going toward cleaning up a little. Even
if all they did was play around me while I picked a few things up - it
changed the atmosphere. All done very happily and cheerfully - not
demanding that they clean up right now, just me spending a little time
getting some things put away. Sometimes I'd hand one of them something
and ask, "Can you put that in that red bucket over there?"
Then we'd start goodbyes - we'd talked in advance about what to say when
saying goodbye. "Thank you for inviting us to your house." "I really
liked playing house today." "I liked playing with the blocks." Something
like that. For my very shy kid, I'd ask her - do you want me to say your
goodbyes? And I'd just say it for her.
Sometimes we brought something to give to the people whose house we were
visiting, but I'd save that to the end and ask the kid who was having
trouble leaving, "Do you want to get the X out of the car and give it to
your friend?"
And - finally, I'd say to all the kids, "So this was really fun, wasn't
it? Do you guys want to get together again, soon?" And they'd all say
"YES" and I'd say, "Okay, we'll plan on it."
This last was really important to Roya who always wanted to know that
we'd make more plans.
By the time we'd spent half an hour or so on all this stuff - we were
not interrupting their play to leave, anymore, and it became way easier.
Sounds like a lot to write out - but really from beginning to end,
including clean up time, it wasn't more than 15 to 30 minutes max.
-pam
this, too.
Some of the problem is getting the momentum going in the direction of
leaving, rather than the kids trying to play full on right up to the
moment of leaving. They need to ramp the playing down and turn toward
leaving, then take a little step in that direction, etc. Giving them
lots of warning can sometimes help with that, but sometimes it is just
annoying and builds UP the frustration of leaving. Imagine you're
playing, intensely involved - totally into the play world. Someone keeps
counting down how much more time is left - taking you out of the world
you are so enjoying, over and over. You get frustrated at the constant
interruptions and when they finally say, "Okay, time to go now," your
frustration level boils over. Although the advice to give lots of and
frequent warnings before time to go, I think some parents are very rude
about it. Give ONE warning, maybe 5 to 10 minutes ahead of time, but
don't do a countdown.
So - instead of it seeming to suddenly be "time to leave" - better to
get them out of what they're doing and getting ready to leave, right? We
had goodbye rituals - at friends' houses, the goodbye ritual was that I
would go and join them as they played and show an interest in what they
were doing. I'd ask a few questions, maybe, "Who is the mommy?" "Who is
being the baby?" Just start to talk "about" their play a little. If they
were building things, I'd ask questions about that. In other words, take
them a bit out of their play world and more into looking "at" it. Hope
that makes sense. Then I'd say, "Okay, well, I'm here to help clean up -
so how can I help?" I'd get them going toward cleaning up a little. Even
if all they did was play around me while I picked a few things up - it
changed the atmosphere. All done very happily and cheerfully - not
demanding that they clean up right now, just me spending a little time
getting some things put away. Sometimes I'd hand one of them something
and ask, "Can you put that in that red bucket over there?"
Then we'd start goodbyes - we'd talked in advance about what to say when
saying goodbye. "Thank you for inviting us to your house." "I really
liked playing house today." "I liked playing with the blocks." Something
like that. For my very shy kid, I'd ask her - do you want me to say your
goodbyes? And I'd just say it for her.
Sometimes we brought something to give to the people whose house we were
visiting, but I'd save that to the end and ask the kid who was having
trouble leaving, "Do you want to get the X out of the car and give it to
your friend?"
And - finally, I'd say to all the kids, "So this was really fun, wasn't
it? Do you guys want to get together again, soon?" And they'd all say
"YES" and I'd say, "Okay, we'll plan on it."
This last was really important to Roya who always wanted to know that
we'd make more plans.
By the time we'd spent half an hour or so on all this stuff - we were
not interrupting their play to leave, anymore, and it became way easier.
Sounds like a lot to write out - but really from beginning to end,
including clean up time, it wasn't more than 15 to 30 minutes max.
-pam
Christine
>That's a great idea, they love giving gifts, I think that could help a lot!
> Sometimes we brought something to give to the people whose house we were
> visiting, but I'd save that to the end and ask the kid who was having
> trouble leaving, "Do you want to get the X out of the car and give it to
> your friend?"
Sandra Dodd
-=- I've avoided saying, "if we don't leave now, we won't be invited
back!" which might be true, but sounds like a threat.-=-
It's not a threat if it's simply true and it's also courteous.
Sometimes when a family was having a hard time getting one of their
kids out of my house, or especially if the kid was totally ignoring
his mom or dad, or hiding, I would stop being so friendly and
welcoming. I'd say "You need to go home now." And sometimes
jokingly I'd say "Get out of my house!" and point at the door.
Usually the kids took it as the joke it was. One time a kid was
actually scared, and so I walked out with them and joked and
apologized and the mom and I together explained that I was just trying
to get him to go home.
I used to tell Kirby "If we don't leave, we can't come back!" And
that seemed to him, when he was very young, to be a sensible reason.
<bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
back!" which might be true, but sounds like a threat.-=-
It's not a threat if it's simply true and it's also courteous.
Sometimes when a family was having a hard time getting one of their
kids out of my house, or especially if the kid was totally ignoring
his mom or dad, or hiding, I would stop being so friendly and
welcoming. I'd say "You need to go home now." And sometimes
jokingly I'd say "Get out of my house!" and point at the door.
Usually the kids took it as the joke it was. One time a kid was
actually scared, and so I walked out with them and joked and
apologized and the mom and I together explained that I was just trying
to get him to go home.
I used to tell Kirby "If we don't leave, we can't come back!" And
that seemed to him, when he was very young, to be a sensible reason.
<bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Another way was to have a plan for after. Like going to get ice-
cream or donuts at a favorite place.=-
That can be really helpful too, so that you're going to another place,
not away from.
The grocery store isn't the best of those places, in my experience.
They'll wonder why you didn't just go to the store before you picked
them up, and you might wonder the very same thing. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cream or donuts at a favorite place.=-
That can be really helpful too, so that you're going to another place,
not away from.
The grocery store isn't the best of those places, in my experience.
They'll wonder why you didn't just go to the store before you picked
them up, and you might wonder the very same thing. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Drive -thrus ( sp?) are great for that! McDonalds has a $1 dollar Ice-cream that is easy and fast. I avoid grocery shopping with kids as much as I can. I am lucky my husband Brian does probably 90% of our shopping.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jessica
When my twins (now 14!) were little, they had problems when it was time to go... the problem was we didn't go out a whole lot... I think that if we did stuff often, they'd feel comfortable leaving knowing that we would be there again sometime soon... like the park. (Yes I know mom & toddler twins in a playground can be quite the challenge... one time I had one twin climbing up a ladder to go on a slide or something a few feet away from another going down a slide head first, lol...) SO perhaps frequent "out" activities whether it is a trip to the park or a visit with friends will get them comfortable with the idea that these things WILL happen again..
I think it gets easier when they get older...
Jessica
I think it gets easier when they get older...
> Hi, I'm new to the group as well as parenting and would so appreciate some suggestions of strategies I can employ to help my daughter end a visit more joyfully.Hope this helps!
Jessica