Chronic constipation-sorry so long
aljonesz
I have a situation with my older girl(age 5) where she has a medical problem (chronic constipation since age 3). We have been working with a consultant through the Natuinal Health Service (NHS) to treat the problem medically however it probably has some emotional component. We have been offered to see a child therapist but I am very reluctant because I not sure they will understand radical unschooling and will look askance at some of our choices. Including that I still breastfeed her younger sister(age 2). And with all the worry about the Badman report (a recent review of home education in the UK) I am very reluctant to trust what is essentially the government (the NHS supplied therapist) with sensitive information about my children and my family. I am happy to carry on as we are waiting until my daughter is ready to use a potty and pooh without medication but my husband feels I am being very paranoid and overlooking what could be very helpful. I have summed the situation up as follows for any thoughts on the matter.
When DD1 was 2.5 years she was in daycare 2 days a week and DD2 had just been born. I was just finding attachment parenting and not even heard of unschooling yet. DD1 started asking about wearing panties and using the potty, in retrospect it may have been pressure from daycare. We started using panties. She wasn't very successful she had lots of accidents with urination but rarely with pooh. I took her out of daycare a month into this.
After 6 months, she started at a playgroup 3 mornings (sort of a preschool) She started poohing her pants. We didn't know that the people at the playgroup would rush her and not let her have enough time to pooh. Prior to this, she was quite regular in the mornings. At this point (although we didn't know it) she started being constipated and then soiling (leakage around a constipation). She had never had a constipation problem before. She is a very picky eater and has always eaten lots of fruit (not so much veg). To deal with problem of accidents we put her back in diapers and took her out of playgroup.
Over next 6 months things got much worse. She started sqatting and holding her pooh in. Sometimes she would go thru periods of squatting every 10 minutes for hours. It was interfering with her activities, she was soiling 6-8 times a day, she would go over a week without a proper pooh. She was lethargic. She would get diaper rash and still not want her nappy changed.
I researched online and realized that we were dealing with a chronic constipation issue. She had probably developed constipation, had some painful pooh and then started holding it in a spiral that worsened over time and resulted in an enlarged colon and damage to nerves that controlled defecation. I got her into see a specialist doctor who put her on medicine to completely empty her colon so it could recover normal function. It seems in chronic constipation, when you get a stretched colon you need someway to get it back to normal and I didn't see any other way to accomplish that other than with medication. She is such a picky eater trying to add in more fiber was no help and she already had a diet high in fruit.
She has been on medication for 10 months now (she is 5 years old). The dose has been slowly lowered over time and I would love to have her off of it but am so scared of going back to how it was at the worst time. I think there is an emotional component to all of this whether it was the new baby, the playgroup, feeling powerless, something but neither my husband or I have ever been able to get her to speak to us about it. We are considering taking her to a therapist but this seems like such a big step and I feel were are very vulnerable as we attachment parent and unschool.
When DD1 was 2.5 years she was in daycare 2 days a week and DD2 had just been born. I was just finding attachment parenting and not even heard of unschooling yet. DD1 started asking about wearing panties and using the potty, in retrospect it may have been pressure from daycare. We started using panties. She wasn't very successful she had lots of accidents with urination but rarely with pooh. I took her out of daycare a month into this.
After 6 months, she started at a playgroup 3 mornings (sort of a preschool) She started poohing her pants. We didn't know that the people at the playgroup would rush her and not let her have enough time to pooh. Prior to this, she was quite regular in the mornings. At this point (although we didn't know it) she started being constipated and then soiling (leakage around a constipation). She had never had a constipation problem before. She is a very picky eater and has always eaten lots of fruit (not so much veg). To deal with problem of accidents we put her back in diapers and took her out of playgroup.
Over next 6 months things got much worse. She started sqatting and holding her pooh in. Sometimes she would go thru periods of squatting every 10 minutes for hours. It was interfering with her activities, she was soiling 6-8 times a day, she would go over a week without a proper pooh. She was lethargic. She would get diaper rash and still not want her nappy changed.
I researched online and realized that we were dealing with a chronic constipation issue. She had probably developed constipation, had some painful pooh and then started holding it in a spiral that worsened over time and resulted in an enlarged colon and damage to nerves that controlled defecation. I got her into see a specialist doctor who put her on medicine to completely empty her colon so it could recover normal function. It seems in chronic constipation, when you get a stretched colon you need someway to get it back to normal and I didn't see any other way to accomplish that other than with medication. She is such a picky eater trying to add in more fiber was no help and she already had a diet high in fruit.
She has been on medication for 10 months now (she is 5 years old). The dose has been slowly lowered over time and I would love to have her off of it but am so scared of going back to how it was at the worst time. I think there is an emotional component to all of this whether it was the new baby, the playgroup, feeling powerless, something but neither my husband or I have ever been able to get her to speak to us about it. We are considering taking her to a therapist but this seems like such a big step and I feel were are very vulnerable as we attachment parent and unschool.
bradj
My mindset is one of "hell yeah, bring on that therapist just so I can show the world how mentally healthy I am."
The way I see it is that, the only reason to fear a therapist is if you think they are going to actually find something wrong and then not be able to cure it. But then that shouldn't even be a fear since if you are operating to your own satisfaction now in the shape you are in, then even if they do find something wrong and incurable, you can still continue to be happy being yourself.
Now I imagine you are afraid they are going to rule you an unfit parent due to unschooling. Again, why not see this as an opportunity to show the world there is nothing wrong with unschooling?
Bottom line, I feel your concern should be with them helping you diagnose and curing what ever needs to be cured instead of being concerned that they might take something away from you.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Brad Jones
The way I see it is that, the only reason to fear a therapist is if you think they are going to actually find something wrong and then not be able to cure it. But then that shouldn't even be a fear since if you are operating to your own satisfaction now in the shape you are in, then even if they do find something wrong and incurable, you can still continue to be happy being yourself.
Now I imagine you are afraid they are going to rule you an unfit parent due to unschooling. Again, why not see this as an opportunity to show the world there is nothing wrong with unschooling?
Bottom line, I feel your concern should be with them helping you diagnose and curing what ever needs to be cured instead of being concerned that they might take something away from you.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Brad Jones
Sandra Dodd
Because she's school age and the U.K. schools are being nervous this
year, I can understand your nervousness about counselling.
What about an ayurvedic doctor? That might be a helpful compromise
option. They're big on diet, and even if you choose not to go that
direction, there are pills called "Triphala" which are prunes and
plums and something, I think, but if the child would eat those (dry or
fresh or stewed or with other foods) that might keep away from the
need for pills.
When I went to check the name of those ayurvedic pills, I found this
page with lots of people's lists of what foods had helped:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071129143555AAXgJ08
It's not really an unschooling question, outside of the hesitation to
get counselling, I don't think, and maybe the concern that part of the
the origin was emotional. Kirby had that problem for a couple of
years when he was little. I was less patient and gentle than I would
have been had it been Holly or Marty. And maybe my less-patience was
part of the problem; I don't know. He was fine after a while. We
kept him plied with juice, water, popsicles (frozen juice we made at
home sometimes; commercial sometimes) and fruit and lettuce. Some
kids might not "like lettuce" but if you wrap little bites of
something else in it (egg salad, tuna salad) like little packages,
they might eat the whole thing and get lettuce that way. Celery
with something in it sometimes might help.
Sandra
year, I can understand your nervousness about counselling.
What about an ayurvedic doctor? That might be a helpful compromise
option. They're big on diet, and even if you choose not to go that
direction, there are pills called "Triphala" which are prunes and
plums and something, I think, but if the child would eat those (dry or
fresh or stewed or with other foods) that might keep away from the
need for pills.
When I went to check the name of those ayurvedic pills, I found this
page with lots of people's lists of what foods had helped:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071129143555AAXgJ08
It's not really an unschooling question, outside of the hesitation to
get counselling, I don't think, and maybe the concern that part of the
the origin was emotional. Kirby had that problem for a couple of
years when he was little. I was less patient and gentle than I would
have been had it been Holly or Marty. And maybe my less-patience was
part of the problem; I don't know. He was fine after a while. We
kept him plied with juice, water, popsicles (frozen juice we made at
home sometimes; commercial sometimes) and fruit and lettuce. Some
kids might not "like lettuce" but if you wrap little bites of
something else in it (egg salad, tuna salad) like little packages,
they might eat the whole thing and get lettuce that way. Celery
with something in it sometimes might help.
Sandra
[email protected]
I responded previously on AU, but wanted to also going suggest cranial sacral therapy for both the constipation and the emotional stuff.
Lyla
Lyla
>
Jenny Cyphers
***I am happy to carry on as we are waiting until my daughter is ready to use a potty and pooh without medication but my husband feels I am being very paranoid and overlooking what could be very helpful. I have summed the situation up as follows for any thoughts on the matter.***
You daughter is 5. Even if she suffered some trauma that caused her to have this problem, the trauma doesn't exist anymore. She's still growing and healing and processing. I'd give her time. She's only 5, she has time to relax and figure her body out.
Our neighbor girl has been forced into daycare and school from almost day one, and she has huge toileting issues. At the age of 9, she's finally getting better, but it's been a constant issue for her for years, one in which she was and is hugely embarrassed by. So much so, that I used to find yucky underwear hiding in odd places in my house and my younger daughter's underwear disappearing. One day, THAT girl might need therapy.
But your daughter gets to have a peaceful supportive environment with her loving parents assisting her to slowly get better. Some kids are very odd about toileting issues. Margaux still won't use the bathroom without someone helping her and she's 8. (When she was really little and just learning how to use the toilet, she'd get very upset about having accidents, even though there wasn't any pressure on our end in that regard.) We don't put her in situations, generally, where she needs to do that. The last time she stayed the night at her friend's house she ended up coming home at 1 am because her tummy hurt from holding it in because we weren't available to assist her. She's stayed over at that friend's house before without a problem, so I'm guessing she didn't need to go poop while there, at any of those other times. Margaux readily admits that she still needs help with using the bathroom and isn't ashamed of that. Although it can be
wearing on her parents...
My best suggestion is to be sweet and gentle and help her through it as she slowly stops using the medication. In a year, it may be an entirely different story.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You daughter is 5. Even if she suffered some trauma that caused her to have this problem, the trauma doesn't exist anymore. She's still growing and healing and processing. I'd give her time. She's only 5, she has time to relax and figure her body out.
Our neighbor girl has been forced into daycare and school from almost day one, and she has huge toileting issues. At the age of 9, she's finally getting better, but it's been a constant issue for her for years, one in which she was and is hugely embarrassed by. So much so, that I used to find yucky underwear hiding in odd places in my house and my younger daughter's underwear disappearing. One day, THAT girl might need therapy.
But your daughter gets to have a peaceful supportive environment with her loving parents assisting her to slowly get better. Some kids are very odd about toileting issues. Margaux still won't use the bathroom without someone helping her and she's 8. (When she was really little and just learning how to use the toilet, she'd get very upset about having accidents, even though there wasn't any pressure on our end in that regard.) We don't put her in situations, generally, where she needs to do that. The last time she stayed the night at her friend's house she ended up coming home at 1 am because her tummy hurt from holding it in because we weren't available to assist her. She's stayed over at that friend's house before without a problem, so I'm guessing she didn't need to go poop while there, at any of those other times. Margaux readily admits that she still needs help with using the bathroom and isn't ashamed of that. Although it can be
wearing on her parents...
My best suggestion is to be sweet and gentle and help her through it as she slowly stops using the medication. In a year, it may be an entirely different story.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bernadette Lynn
2009/10/19 aljonesz <a.l.jonesz@...>
star charts and prune juice. She had it quite badly, passing a stool once
every five weeks or so, but she did get over it fairly quickly once she got
proper treatment. We kept a very close eye on her for a couple of years and
intervened quickly at the first sign of possible constipation. They told us
it had an emotional component but I didn't really believe them - stress may
have made her worse but it certainly didn't cause the problem. Now, at ten,
she still can't really tell when she 'needs to go', she just keeps herself
to a routine by strength of will and asks us to remind her to drink more
when she has trouble.
She was later diagnosed with a heart problem: it's possible that her heart
may not have been strong enough to deal with constipation and she was
instinctively avoiding putting strain on it.
Whatever the cause, we decided to give her the medication she needed to get
rid of the physical symptoms she (and we) hated. Beyond that by giving her
lots of support and trust and love she has reached the point where she is in
control, but is comfortable with asking for help whenever she needs it. She
eats what she wants too - maybe the vast amounts of chocolate she gets
through are helping. I try not to make any judgements or assumptions though
and trust her to do what she needs and help her when she gets it wrong.
Hopefully that will prevent it ever becoming a real emotional problem.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I have a situation with my older girl(age 5) where she has a medicalconsultant - after a year of doctors and Health Visitors telling me to use
> problem (chronic constipation since age 3). We have been working with a
> consultant through the Natuinal Health Service (NHS) to treat the problem
> medically however it probably has some emotional component.
>
> My eldest daughter also had this problem and was treated by an NHS
star charts and prune juice. She had it quite badly, passing a stool once
every five weeks or so, but she did get over it fairly quickly once she got
proper treatment. We kept a very close eye on her for a couple of years and
intervened quickly at the first sign of possible constipation. They told us
it had an emotional component but I didn't really believe them - stress may
have made her worse but it certainly didn't cause the problem. Now, at ten,
she still can't really tell when she 'needs to go', she just keeps herself
to a routine by strength of will and asks us to remind her to drink more
when she has trouble.
She was later diagnosed with a heart problem: it's possible that her heart
may not have been strong enough to deal with constipation and she was
instinctively avoiding putting strain on it.
Whatever the cause, we decided to give her the medication she needed to get
rid of the physical symptoms she (and we) hated. Beyond that by giving her
lots of support and trust and love she has reached the point where she is in
control, but is comfortable with asking for help whenever she needs it. She
eats what she wants too - maybe the vast amounts of chocolate she gets
through are helping. I try not to make any judgements or assumptions though
and trust her to do what she needs and help her when she gets it wrong.
Hopefully that will prevent it ever becoming a real emotional problem.
Bernadette.
--
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/U15459
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
aljonesz
I think in my original post I wasn't clear about all the components that I think went into this problem. In the year prior to and during the start of the problem we had moved house 2 times, I was depressed for a few months, then I was very ill with pregnancy so much so that that is why she was in daycare because I was too ill to look after her. In daycare we found out another boy was hitting her. My husband and I were on the verge of divorce. Then she had a new baby sister who was nursing and she wasn't. She felt like i sent her to playgroup to be with the baby alone. And I was completely at a loss for how to deal with her because all I knew was conventional parenting methods.
So in past year and half, marriage has sorted itself out. I found out about attachment parenting and unschooling. We cosleep. I try every day to make sure she feels like she has a choice in her life. I think on a lot of levels she still feels very powerless. Of course I sometimes fall into bad habits and coerce her into things or lose my temper and yell. That is getting better all the time. I am doing The Work.
I still have a lot of guilt for the things that happened and the way we parented her the first 3 years of her life. Especially since I do it completely differently with her sister (nurse on demand, cosleeping, autonomy) and can really see the difference. So I guess the big picture question I have is how long and what does it look like to see the results of all the changes and is there anything further I need to do to tweak things. There have been so many great suggestions and information and I posted on 2 sites so I am going to put this reply on both because i just don't have the time to go thru and respond to each individually. But I do read every one's post.
So in past year and half, marriage has sorted itself out. I found out about attachment parenting and unschooling. We cosleep. I try every day to make sure she feels like she has a choice in her life. I think on a lot of levels she still feels very powerless. Of course I sometimes fall into bad habits and coerce her into things or lose my temper and yell. That is getting better all the time. I am doing The Work.
I still have a lot of guilt for the things that happened and the way we parented her the first 3 years of her life. Especially since I do it completely differently with her sister (nurse on demand, cosleeping, autonomy) and can really see the difference. So I guess the big picture question I have is how long and what does it look like to see the results of all the changes and is there anything further I need to do to tweak things. There have been so many great suggestions and information and I posted on 2 sites so I am going to put this reply on both because i just don't have the time to go thru and respond to each individually. But I do read every one's post.
trude_flys
"The dose has been slowly lowered over time and I would love to have her off of it but am so scared of going back to how it was at the worst time."
It was a long post, this is what I read the core concern to be. With the medical side taken care of, where to go forward from here? whether or not you take up therapy, this is also about living day-to-day.
I had similar situation with my youngest. We stopped talking about it as a problem, and kindly said that this was just another thing that his body was learning, like jumping and sleeping and burping. We got lots and lots of undies for him and basically started to use them as 'if-necessary-disposables'.Accident in the pants/ couldn't get to the bathroom fast enough? let's have a look, can we clean the undies easily? no, then I'll throw them out. not to worry, we'll try again next time. We also changed our daily routine to give him plenty of time to go to the toilet (couldn't have done this with school), if we were planning to go somewhere that had no set start time, we just delayed our departure until he had had enough to finish his poo. This often took, ten or more trips to the bathroom.
I put a full change of clothes (summer and winter) in the back of the car. just in case. it's now been about four months since we've needed it, but I'm sure will still come in handy for weather changes and water play at the park.
Also discovered that he hated going to public toilets for poo, when we were there dirty undies and miserable mum, I was saying how much I hated being in the shopping centre bathrooms, he agreed! (hence so many accidents out and about), so we agreed that I'd tell him plenty of time beforehand if we were heading to the shops, or we could go home if he told me earlyish. This has worked a treat, and he is now going well without a bathroom in public, but will be first in line at home.
Knowing that nothing fun was going to happen without him (we stopped board games / cards / reading etc) and reassuring him that he didn't need to rush, he is now very rarely having accidents. He'll also tell us now if he doesn't need us to wait with a game.
I guess most of all, we all started reminding each other that it'd be OK.
cheers Trude
It was a long post, this is what I read the core concern to be. With the medical side taken care of, where to go forward from here? whether or not you take up therapy, this is also about living day-to-day.
I had similar situation with my youngest. We stopped talking about it as a problem, and kindly said that this was just another thing that his body was learning, like jumping and sleeping and burping. We got lots and lots of undies for him and basically started to use them as 'if-necessary-disposables'.Accident in the pants/ couldn't get to the bathroom fast enough? let's have a look, can we clean the undies easily? no, then I'll throw them out. not to worry, we'll try again next time. We also changed our daily routine to give him plenty of time to go to the toilet (couldn't have done this with school), if we were planning to go somewhere that had no set start time, we just delayed our departure until he had had enough to finish his poo. This often took, ten or more trips to the bathroom.
I put a full change of clothes (summer and winter) in the back of the car. just in case. it's now been about four months since we've needed it, but I'm sure will still come in handy for weather changes and water play at the park.
Also discovered that he hated going to public toilets for poo, when we were there dirty undies and miserable mum, I was saying how much I hated being in the shopping centre bathrooms, he agreed! (hence so many accidents out and about), so we agreed that I'd tell him plenty of time beforehand if we were heading to the shops, or we could go home if he told me earlyish. This has worked a treat, and he is now going well without a bathroom in public, but will be first in line at home.
Knowing that nothing fun was going to happen without him (we stopped board games / cards / reading etc) and reassuring him that he didn't need to rush, he is now very rarely having accidents. He'll also tell us now if he doesn't need us to wait with a game.
I guess most of all, we all started reminding each other that it'd be OK.
cheers Trude
Sandra Dodd
-=-I think in my original post I wasn't clear about all the components
that I think went into this problem.-=-
For this list, that doesn't matter. Had you told us less or more, the
responses would still be about parenting and unschooling.
-=- I try every day to make sure she feels like she has a choice in
her life.-=-
She's too young to think about "her life." Give her a hundred choices
a day, about what music to hear or where to sit in the car or what to
wear or where and what to eat. Let her decide whether it's time to go
home instead of always deciding.
-=-That is getting better all the time. I am doing The Work. -=-
Try to keep the discussion away from religion and other capitalized
beliefs if possible, so that we can talk about choices and unschooling
directly, without filters.
-=-So I guess the big picture question I have is how long and what
does it look like to see the results of all the changes and is there
anything further I need to do to tweak things. -=-
You need to tweak things for the rest of your life. Tweaking isn't a
temporary state of being. You make hundreds of choices a day, too.
Thousands, maybe. If your principles involve learning and kindness,
that helps in making decisions about constipation or anything else.
http://sandradodd.com/rules (rules vs. principles)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that I think went into this problem.-=-
For this list, that doesn't matter. Had you told us less or more, the
responses would still be about parenting and unschooling.
-=- I try every day to make sure she feels like she has a choice in
her life.-=-
She's too young to think about "her life." Give her a hundred choices
a day, about what music to hear or where to sit in the car or what to
wear or where and what to eat. Let her decide whether it's time to go
home instead of always deciding.
-=-That is getting better all the time. I am doing The Work. -=-
Try to keep the discussion away from religion and other capitalized
beliefs if possible, so that we can talk about choices and unschooling
directly, without filters.
-=-So I guess the big picture question I have is how long and what
does it look like to see the results of all the changes and is there
anything further I need to do to tweak things. -=-
You need to tweak things for the rest of your life. Tweaking isn't a
temporary state of being. You make hundreds of choices a day, too.
Thousands, maybe. If your principles involve learning and kindness,
that helps in making decisions about constipation or anything else.
http://sandradodd.com/rules (rules vs. principles)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess most of all, we all started reminding each other that it'd
be OK.-=-
That was the best post of all.
Once Kirby said "I wish there was never any such thing as poop."
He recovered, but it took a while. <G>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
be OK.-=-
That was the best post of all.
Once Kirby said "I wish there was never any such thing as poop."
He recovered, but it took a while. <G>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rdusseldorp
Perhaps an osteopath might be able to help with constipation. I have heard that they can help with issues like this. Or another alternative health practitioner.
When my husband had a health issue that the doctors could not help him with, we sent out an email to all the alternative health practitioners in our city that we could find and described the health issue and the symptoms. We then asked if they had any experience dealing with this type of thing and asked them what their course of treatment would be. Many responded and there were several good options, but we picked the one we thought to be most promising. The treatment had a positive effect for our entire family - because it radically improved my husband's health and his mood.
I also wanted to suggest something about introducing more vegetables to our diet that has worked well for my children (aged 4 and 3). We often tell their favourite stories during dinner time and pretend the vegetables are from the story. We become the characters (ie. Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton Tail, and Peter Rabbit) and we slowly work our way eating Mr. McGregor's garden. The other thing we do is pretend to be professional chefs hosting our own t.v. show and we talk about each vegetable and describe it with great love and passion as we chop it all up and then we call our creation "scrumptious ..." (ie. scrumptious soup). After months of refusing to even try many vegetables, they like broccoli more than I do.
Rippy
When my husband had a health issue that the doctors could not help him with, we sent out an email to all the alternative health practitioners in our city that we could find and described the health issue and the symptoms. We then asked if they had any experience dealing with this type of thing and asked them what their course of treatment would be. Many responded and there were several good options, but we picked the one we thought to be most promising. The treatment had a positive effect for our entire family - because it radically improved my husband's health and his mood.
I also wanted to suggest something about introducing more vegetables to our diet that has worked well for my children (aged 4 and 3). We often tell their favourite stories during dinner time and pretend the vegetables are from the story. We become the characters (ie. Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton Tail, and Peter Rabbit) and we slowly work our way eating Mr. McGregor's garden. The other thing we do is pretend to be professional chefs hosting our own t.v. show and we talk about each vegetable and describe it with great love and passion as we chop it all up and then we call our creation "scrumptious ..." (ie. scrumptious soup). After months of refusing to even try many vegetables, they like broccoli more than I do.
Rippy
carnationsgalore
> You need to tweak things for the rest of your life. Tweaking isn'tThis reminded me of a perfectionist manner. Yesterday, I was talking to my 17 yr. old about focusing on being happy, not stressing about being perfect. That seems like a lofty, unattainable goal. It's like that elusive perfect thing that will just make life forever grand. I like the fact that my life is different day to day, month to month, and so on. I think back to my life in my 20s and can't imagine still living like that in my 40s or later. :)
> a temporary state of being.
Beth M.