unschooling- is it for us?
Kerry Malecha
Hi Everyone,
I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy reading everyone's posts on here. I came to unschooling accidentally last summer and have been reading lots since then. I havent posted much as I am still in a learning mode! I have tried so many times to get comfortable in this mindset but it just doesnt seem to be working out like I had hoped. I am beginning to believe that unschooling just isnt me (or us if you speak in terms of family). No matter how I try I just keep finding myself floating back to the old ways and the school thinking. I worry about everything and because I am math challenged myself I feel like I wont ever be able to help my kids along in math. When someone isnt doing something that looks like school I get worried and begin to make them feel bad by getting annoyed with them for not finding something to do. I guess old habits are hard to break. I think much of it has to do with the fact that I tend to get easily bothered when they look as
though they arent actually wanting to do "traditional" school type subjects! I just cant let go and leave things be.
I am left to believe that maybe I am just not cut out for unschooling. I mean it feels right and I understand why it works and I agree with it, but yet I cant make it work for myself. I get irritated and end up yelling at the kids ( I have 7 and it gets hectic around here). I also have a husband who doesnt really get it (but he doesnt mind it either). I try to get him to read things but he never does(super busy farmer). I mean how can it really work when both parties arent on the same page? He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up early to do chores ect..
My 9 year old tells me it is boring at home and that she is bored! but that changes from day to day. I have signed them up for some fun science classes near by and they are in dance, riding ect.. My 13 year old spends most days at the stable riding. I actually got nervous enough with her and enrolled her in an online middle school program (she is doing well as she has always been self guided and motivated anyways). The fear of the future made me feel like I had to do it. So here I am feeling like I have failed miserably! and I guess I havent actually ever even started because of the things I have done. I envy those of you who live this life freely and whom it works for! I am still a slave to the PS system after all! I guess old habits are harder to break then I thought they would be. Maybe I just am not smart enough to unschool! being a larger family also makes it most challenging and harder I think. I am so afraid to "ruin" my kids! the fear of the
unknown is tearing me apart. I wish I could just relax and breathe and have it all work out. I will continue to read posts on here even if unschooling isnt for us. I enjoy the responses and I think we all have something to learn on our parenting journey regardless of if we unschool our children or not.
Hugs, Kerry~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I just wanted to tell you how much I enjoy reading everyone's posts on here. I came to unschooling accidentally last summer and have been reading lots since then. I havent posted much as I am still in a learning mode! I have tried so many times to get comfortable in this mindset but it just doesnt seem to be working out like I had hoped. I am beginning to believe that unschooling just isnt me (or us if you speak in terms of family). No matter how I try I just keep finding myself floating back to the old ways and the school thinking. I worry about everything and because I am math challenged myself I feel like I wont ever be able to help my kids along in math. When someone isnt doing something that looks like school I get worried and begin to make them feel bad by getting annoyed with them for not finding something to do. I guess old habits are hard to break. I think much of it has to do with the fact that I tend to get easily bothered when they look as
though they arent actually wanting to do "traditional" school type subjects! I just cant let go and leave things be.
I am left to believe that maybe I am just not cut out for unschooling. I mean it feels right and I understand why it works and I agree with it, but yet I cant make it work for myself. I get irritated and end up yelling at the kids ( I have 7 and it gets hectic around here). I also have a husband who doesnt really get it (but he doesnt mind it either). I try to get him to read things but he never does(super busy farmer). I mean how can it really work when both parties arent on the same page? He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up early to do chores ect..
My 9 year old tells me it is boring at home and that she is bored! but that changes from day to day. I have signed them up for some fun science classes near by and they are in dance, riding ect.. My 13 year old spends most days at the stable riding. I actually got nervous enough with her and enrolled her in an online middle school program (she is doing well as she has always been self guided and motivated anyways). The fear of the future made me feel like I had to do it. So here I am feeling like I have failed miserably! and I guess I havent actually ever even started because of the things I have done. I envy those of you who live this life freely and whom it works for! I am still a slave to the PS system after all! I guess old habits are harder to break then I thought they would be. Maybe I just am not smart enough to unschool! being a larger family also makes it most challenging and harder I think. I am so afraid to "ruin" my kids! the fear of the
unknown is tearing me apart. I wish I could just relax and breathe and have it all work out. I will continue to read posts on here even if unschooling isnt for us. I enjoy the responses and I think we all have something to learn on our parenting journey regardless of if we unschool our children or not.
Hugs, Kerry~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bradj
Kerry,
Could you provide us with *your* daily routine. Include as many details as you can.
Brad Jones
Could you provide us with *your* daily routine. Include as many details as you can.
Brad Jones
Sandra Dodd
-=-Kerry,
Could you provide us with *your* daily routine. Include as many
details as you can.
Brad Jones-=-
That's a lot of writing. Brad, she could use that energy in a better
way, I bet. Could you give a clue why you're asking that? Because
it's an odd question, the "us" jumped out at me.
Kerry, I'm guessing (and could be wrong) that Brad's after having you
look at what you're doing and how much of your time is being spent
with your kids, or on hobbies or learning activities of your own.
From my point of view as a mom, I think that if *today* you spend
more time with your kids and less time writing to this list (or doing
anything else) that unschooling will start to come into focus for
you. Every moment you spend really being with your child, not just
physically, but intellectually and emotionally, will be growth for you
both.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Could you provide us with *your* daily routine. Include as many
details as you can.
Brad Jones-=-
That's a lot of writing. Brad, she could use that energy in a better
way, I bet. Could you give a clue why you're asking that? Because
it's an odd question, the "us" jumped out at me.
Kerry, I'm guessing (and could be wrong) that Brad's after having you
look at what you're doing and how much of your time is being spent
with your kids, or on hobbies or learning activities of your own.
From my point of view as a mom, I think that if *today* you spend
more time with your kids and less time writing to this list (or doing
anything else) that unschooling will start to come into focus for
you. Every moment you spend really being with your child, not just
physically, but intellectually and emotionally, will be growth for you
both.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carnationsgalore
> I worry about everything and because I am math challenged myselfFor me, unschooling has been about examining those types of beliefs. It's easy to stay stuck in the old-school thinking, as you termed it. Asking questions can make some people uncomfortable. It's been interesting to really think about why I have felt that way.
> I feel like I wont ever be able to help my kids along in math.
So what math are you concerned you can't do and/or can't see your children understanding? I used to worry about math, but really, I can do the math I need in my life. I didn't do well in high school math, but I can work fractions to cook, balance my checkbook, and use a calculator to figure sales at the grocery store. :)
> I just cant let go and leave things be.What were your days in school like? Were they helpful for you? That was the turning point in our thinking, my husband and myself. He has a master's degree but he followed his passions outside the classroom. I didn't have that chance because I was one of the sheep that just followed along, sticking to just what the schools doled out to me.
> I mean how can it really work when both parties arent on the sameI'm not sure it can. I think I remember this topic being discussed on this group before.
> page?
> He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up earlyA formal school setup will 'teach' them this work ethic?
> to do chores ect..
> I envy those of you who live this life freely and whom it worksIt's been difficult for me and I still feel like I'm trying to figure it out. I do believe that using a curriculum for my children is taking a lazy way out. It's so easy to open the textbook or put the kids in front of the computer screen and let them be 'taught'. Even before I knew about unschooling, I felt uncomfortable watching them struggle with stuff they had no interest in doing. I hated being told they had to do the stuff they didn't like because it was learning and was good for them. It felt, and still feels, so unnatural.
> for!
Beth M.
bradj
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
Yes, that and I've noticed a particular pattern on these groups where the responders normally have to send a series of clarifications due to the OP not including the pertinent details.
So I figured this would be a way to kill two birds with one stone. Spark the introspection, as well as providing lots of details up front.
Brad Jones
>Sandra-
> -=-Kerry,
>
> Could you provide us with *your* daily routine. Include as many
> details as you can.
>
> Brad Jones-=-
>
><snip>Brad-
>Could you give a clue why you're asking that?
><snip>
>I'm guessing (and could be wrong) that Brad's after having you
> look at what you're doing and how much of your time is being spent
> with your kids,
><snip>
Yes, that and I've noticed a particular pattern on these groups where the responders normally have to send a series of clarifications due to the OP not including the pertinent details.
So I figured this would be a way to kill two birds with one stone. Spark the introspection, as well as providing lots of details up front.
Brad Jones
Sandra Dodd
-=-I've noticed a particular pattern on these groups where the
responders normally have to send a series of clarifications due to the
OP not including the pertinent details.-=-
Nobody "has to" do anything; no one has to respond in the first place.
When someone asks a question or tells a story and the responses are
off the mark, it doesn't matter because there are hundreds of
readers, none of whom have exactly the original problem, nor the
assumed others, but who have thoughts and ideas or needs and concerns
that are generally related. And so the general idea is discussed,
and people benefit.
Separate from that, the original poster has the opportunity (doesn't
have to; doesn't have to have read any of the responses) to see how a
lack of clarity in thought or expression caused miscommunication.
When it happens here, it's probably happening with people outside of
here, too. When there's confusion in writing, it's usually evidence
of confusion in thought.
Above and beyond all that, we all have kids to take care of (well, not
me personally this month, but on average yes <g>).
Asking someone to write in detail what she does with her day is beyond
the scope of the list. When we talk about food we don't ask anyone to
write down everything a child eats. We don't ask anyone to write down
every TV show or movie a kid watches.
The purpose of the list isn't to serve as a complaints window where
people say "These shoes don't fit" and we get some that do. It's for
the discussion of ideas. That's why I objected to a request for a
report, and especially the use of "us."
Sandra the listowner
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
responders normally have to send a series of clarifications due to the
OP not including the pertinent details.-=-
Nobody "has to" do anything; no one has to respond in the first place.
When someone asks a question or tells a story and the responses are
off the mark, it doesn't matter because there are hundreds of
readers, none of whom have exactly the original problem, nor the
assumed others, but who have thoughts and ideas or needs and concerns
that are generally related. And so the general idea is discussed,
and people benefit.
Separate from that, the original poster has the opportunity (doesn't
have to; doesn't have to have read any of the responses) to see how a
lack of clarity in thought or expression caused miscommunication.
When it happens here, it's probably happening with people outside of
here, too. When there's confusion in writing, it's usually evidence
of confusion in thought.
Above and beyond all that, we all have kids to take care of (well, not
me personally this month, but on average yes <g>).
Asking someone to write in detail what she does with her day is beyond
the scope of the list. When we talk about food we don't ask anyone to
write down everything a child eats. We don't ask anyone to write down
every TV show or movie a kid watches.
The purpose of the list isn't to serve as a complaints window where
people say "These shoes don't fit" and we get some that do. It's for
the discussion of ideas. That's why I objected to a request for a
report, and especially the use of "us."
Sandra the listowner
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Oct 14, 2009, at 3:02 PM, Kerry Malecha wrote:
unschooling freely and easily! It will help greatly to picture people
*working* at letting go. For most people it isn't easy but they see
something good about unschooling they want that makes the effort and
trouble to change worth it. And the more they read about the benefits
of unschool, the more success they have in their own lives, the more
the work is worth it.
What you see on the list are the parts people have chosen to work on.
You're not seeing the parts they're still clinging to.
Of course it's all interconnected! Once people give up control in one
area, it's easier to see how the control in another area is mucking
it up. That doesn't make it easy to let go! But the awareness helps
them become determined to work on more.
and a feeling of being out of control. You're trying to seize control
by seizing control of your kids. But really it's like herding cats
which is an exercise in frustration!
Find what you can control. It could be that 7 kids and their needs
feels like a chaotic mass to you. But they're a collection of
individuals with unique needs. Maybe what you're doing is reacting to
crises but what you really need is to be proactive to prevent it from
feeling like a tangled mess that needs whipped into order.
There are patterns in the disorder. There are events that are
happening repeatedly that, with awareness, you can control the
environment to prevent them from happening.
You might try writing some of it out to get a handle on what feels
out of control and post it to the list. What you've written is mostly
telling us you can't do this and then what you do in response to
feeling you can't do this (eg, impose schooling work.) To help
yourself, you need to back up and examine what's going on before you
feel like it's out of control.
With 7 kids it's probably hard to find the time! But it's like
someone who feels they need to keep bailing the boat because the
water keeps leaking in. If they take the time to plug a couple of
leaks they won't have to bail so hard. And if they're not bailing so
hard then they can find time to plug up more leaks!
to survive. Lots of people had kids to create hands to help. It was
easier for kids to understand the necessity to work because it was
true. And an outgrowth of that hard work was a feeling of
accomplishment. (Ideally. Loads of kids fled the constant work on the
farm as soon as they could!) But without the feeling that the family
will starve if the cows aren't watered, imposed chores just feels
like control. (Don't tell him that though! I'm sure he doesn't want a
lesson on how he's wrong!)
Rather than thinking in terms of chores, think in terms of helping
him. Do nice things for him because you love him and he works hard
all day. Include the kids. Ask them if there are nice things they'd
like to do for him to help him out.
I think a dynamic that often happens in families -- even small
families, even just between a husband and wife -- is that people feel
needy and they get into a mode of grasping what they can at the
expense of others to meet their needs. It will help to change that
dynamic.
Maybe what you can do is pick one child a week on a random day and
you and the other kids secretly do nice things for him or her. The
goal isn't to make the kids do nice things. The goal is to feel what
it's like to have others do nice things for you. :-) That will do a
lot more to encourage generosity of time (so the kids are more
likely to want to help with chores) than imposing work on them.
Joyce
> I envy those of you who live this life freely and whom it works for!I think it will help to not picture everyone who posts here as living
unschooling freely and easily! It will help greatly to picture people
*working* at letting go. For most people it isn't easy but they see
something good about unschooling they want that makes the effort and
trouble to change worth it. And the more they read about the benefits
of unschool, the more success they have in their own lives, the more
the work is worth it.
What you see on the list are the parts people have chosen to work on.
You're not seeing the parts they're still clinging to.
Of course it's all interconnected! Once people give up control in one
area, it's easier to see how the control in another area is mucking
it up. That doesn't make it easy to let go! But the awareness helps
them become determined to work on more.
> No matter how I try I just keep finding myself floating back to theWhat I'm sensing in a lot of what you've written is a need to control
> old ways and the school thinking.
>
and a feeling of being out of control. You're trying to seize control
by seizing control of your kids. But really it's like herding cats
which is an exercise in frustration!
Find what you can control. It could be that 7 kids and their needs
feels like a chaotic mass to you. But they're a collection of
individuals with unique needs. Maybe what you're doing is reacting to
crises but what you really need is to be proactive to prevent it from
feeling like a tangled mess that needs whipped into order.
There are patterns in the disorder. There are events that are
happening repeatedly that, with awareness, you can control the
environment to prevent them from happening.
You might try writing some of it out to get a handle on what feels
out of control and post it to the list. What you've written is mostly
telling us you can't do this and then what you do in response to
feeling you can't do this (eg, impose schooling work.) To help
yourself, you need to back up and examine what's going on before you
feel like it's out of control.
With 7 kids it's probably hard to find the time! But it's like
someone who feels they need to keep bailing the boat because the
water keeps leaking in. If they take the time to plug a couple of
leaks they won't have to bail so hard. And if they're not bailing so
hard then they can find time to plug up more leaks!
> He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up earlyA couple of generations ago, families needed to impose work on kids
> to do chores ect..
>
to survive. Lots of people had kids to create hands to help. It was
easier for kids to understand the necessity to work because it was
true. And an outgrowth of that hard work was a feeling of
accomplishment. (Ideally. Loads of kids fled the constant work on the
farm as soon as they could!) But without the feeling that the family
will starve if the cows aren't watered, imposed chores just feels
like control. (Don't tell him that though! I'm sure he doesn't want a
lesson on how he's wrong!)
Rather than thinking in terms of chores, think in terms of helping
him. Do nice things for him because you love him and he works hard
all day. Include the kids. Ask them if there are nice things they'd
like to do for him to help him out.
I think a dynamic that often happens in families -- even small
families, even just between a husband and wife -- is that people feel
needy and they get into a mode of grasping what they can at the
expense of others to meet their needs. It will help to change that
dynamic.
Maybe what you can do is pick one child a week on a random day and
you and the other kids secretly do nice things for him or her. The
goal isn't to make the kids do nice things. The goal is to feel what
it's like to have others do nice things for you. :-) That will do a
lot more to encourage generosity of time (so the kids are more
likely to want to help with chores) than imposing work on them.
Joyce
Jenny Cyphers
***I worry about everything and because I am math challenged myself I feel like I wont ever be able to help my kids along in math.***
People who have gone through the school system and have been taught math, often have this feeling towards math. It's that feeling that math is hard and challenging, that you are no good at it, that it's something to fear and avoid because of the pain it's caused. I have a friend, Mary Lewis, if anyone knows or remembers, that has tutored math to lots of people. One of the biggest hurdles that she's encountered, is helping people get over that fear and pain that school has caused by teaching math the way they do.
I truly believe that one of the worst things we can do to our kids, is to force "math" onto them in the same ways that schools do. Some kids naturally gravitate toward numbers and patterns and logical reasoning, and it's beautiful to see them naturally explore those things, I have one of those kind of kids. Then there are some kids who really don't, yet they learn how to deal with money and make sense of geometrical patterns and lots of other mathematical concepts simply by living and doing interesting things. I have one of those kind of kids too, who's mathematical concepts came through sewing and money.
***When someone isnt doing something that looks like school I get worried and begin to make them feel bad by getting annoyed with them for not finding something to do.***
What does "looks like school" look like to you? This is what I remember from school... I was bored out of my mind with all the silly nonsense that was being thrown at me. I liked to drift off into my own inner world to escape the tedium of that. I got good grades too. It's a good thing my parents didn't view my worth through what grades I got! They saw me differently and I'm coming to realize that my parents were pretty unusual in that regard! That's another topic maybe...
So, if by "looks like school" you mean extremely bored children jumping through someone else's hoops to get to the reward of parental favor, then it might be worth examining and perhaps looking for another way to see your childrens' worth. Sometimes the most valuable thing for a child to do, is absolutely nothing, so their brains can process thoughts and percolate ideas and brainstorm to come to valuable information that's relevant to them. It's a bit of a cycle, everyone has active times where they do do do and go go go and then not so active times, times to reflect and re-energize themselves. Parents can do a lot of damage when they interrupt that cycle by placing demands that their children "look" like they are going and doing.
***I am left to believe that maybe I am just not cut out for unschooling. I mean it feels right and I understand why it works and I agree with it, but yet I cant make it work for myself. I get irritated and end up yelling at the kids ( I have 7 and it gets hectic around here).***
Some people can relax enough to get it and some aren't. My oldest daughter has a boyfriend who's dad always yells at him, rarely communicates in any other way. It's very damaging and painful. Find a way to not yell. I know that at times people, even really good parents lose their cool. Catch yourself, stop yourself, go to the bathroom, find a child that isn't triggering you and go snuggle up with that one and read them a book, or go for a walk and take whoever is already dressed with shoes and jacket on. Breathe deeply and let your heartbeat slow down and then go back and talk nicely to those kids that you know you love.
As to being irritated, if you let go of all those expectations, you might be less irritated when your kids don't meet them, and then pleasantly surprised when they go beyond what you ever thought they could or would do.
***I also have a husband who doesnt really get it (but he doesnt mind it either). I try to get him to read things but he never does(super busy farmer). I mean how can it really work when both parties arent on the same page? He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up early to do chores ect.. ***
My husband didn't really get it either, for a long time, but he does now. He worked and wasn't really doing it, so he didn't have the luxury of exploring it and getting it faster, like I did. I let my children have their own relationship with their dad. If he wanted them to do something, I tried to encourage my kids to do it because he's their dad. If he tried to force it or shame them, I'd step in, but really he's never been unreasonable about things like that, so mostly I let it go.
If the harmony of your house depends on your kids getting up early and doing chores, I'd find a way to make that pleasant. If dad can be talked out of that and is able to let that go, then I'd work on that. Maybe a little of both.
***My 9 year old tells me it is boring at home and that she is bored! but that changes from day to day. I have signed them up for some fun science classes near by and they are in dance, riding ect.. ***
If you have bored kids, then what you are doing really does look like school! Most of the kids that I know that go to school, are terribly bored with it. If home is like school, then of course the kids might get bored.
Did your kids want to take fun science classes? What if they'd rather stay home and play video games or watch tv or read a book or bake a cake? Classes, even fun ones, can be really boring if it's something done by force. Sandra's said this a lot and I truly believe it too, one of the worst things about school is the lack of choice. Kids who have a lot of choices aren't bored. My kids are rarely bored. Chamille, my oldest, gets bored sometimes when all of her friends are in school, but she's still able to do other things that interest her. Sometimes the sheer act of stating ones' bored state of mind, leads to really fun and interesting things to counter that feeling.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
People who have gone through the school system and have been taught math, often have this feeling towards math. It's that feeling that math is hard and challenging, that you are no good at it, that it's something to fear and avoid because of the pain it's caused. I have a friend, Mary Lewis, if anyone knows or remembers, that has tutored math to lots of people. One of the biggest hurdles that she's encountered, is helping people get over that fear and pain that school has caused by teaching math the way they do.
I truly believe that one of the worst things we can do to our kids, is to force "math" onto them in the same ways that schools do. Some kids naturally gravitate toward numbers and patterns and logical reasoning, and it's beautiful to see them naturally explore those things, I have one of those kind of kids. Then there are some kids who really don't, yet they learn how to deal with money and make sense of geometrical patterns and lots of other mathematical concepts simply by living and doing interesting things. I have one of those kind of kids too, who's mathematical concepts came through sewing and money.
***When someone isnt doing something that looks like school I get worried and begin to make them feel bad by getting annoyed with them for not finding something to do.***
What does "looks like school" look like to you? This is what I remember from school... I was bored out of my mind with all the silly nonsense that was being thrown at me. I liked to drift off into my own inner world to escape the tedium of that. I got good grades too. It's a good thing my parents didn't view my worth through what grades I got! They saw me differently and I'm coming to realize that my parents were pretty unusual in that regard! That's another topic maybe...
So, if by "looks like school" you mean extremely bored children jumping through someone else's hoops to get to the reward of parental favor, then it might be worth examining and perhaps looking for another way to see your childrens' worth. Sometimes the most valuable thing for a child to do, is absolutely nothing, so their brains can process thoughts and percolate ideas and brainstorm to come to valuable information that's relevant to them. It's a bit of a cycle, everyone has active times where they do do do and go go go and then not so active times, times to reflect and re-energize themselves. Parents can do a lot of damage when they interrupt that cycle by placing demands that their children "look" like they are going and doing.
***I am left to believe that maybe I am just not cut out for unschooling. I mean it feels right and I understand why it works and I agree with it, but yet I cant make it work for myself. I get irritated and end up yelling at the kids ( I have 7 and it gets hectic around here).***
Some people can relax enough to get it and some aren't. My oldest daughter has a boyfriend who's dad always yells at him, rarely communicates in any other way. It's very damaging and painful. Find a way to not yell. I know that at times people, even really good parents lose their cool. Catch yourself, stop yourself, go to the bathroom, find a child that isn't triggering you and go snuggle up with that one and read them a book, or go for a walk and take whoever is already dressed with shoes and jacket on. Breathe deeply and let your heartbeat slow down and then go back and talk nicely to those kids that you know you love.
As to being irritated, if you let go of all those expectations, you might be less irritated when your kids don't meet them, and then pleasantly surprised when they go beyond what you ever thought they could or would do.
***I also have a husband who doesnt really get it (but he doesnt mind it either). I try to get him to read things but he never does(super busy farmer). I mean how can it really work when both parties arent on the same page? He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up early to do chores ect.. ***
My husband didn't really get it either, for a long time, but he does now. He worked and wasn't really doing it, so he didn't have the luxury of exploring it and getting it faster, like I did. I let my children have their own relationship with their dad. If he wanted them to do something, I tried to encourage my kids to do it because he's their dad. If he tried to force it or shame them, I'd step in, but really he's never been unreasonable about things like that, so mostly I let it go.
If the harmony of your house depends on your kids getting up early and doing chores, I'd find a way to make that pleasant. If dad can be talked out of that and is able to let that go, then I'd work on that. Maybe a little of both.
***My 9 year old tells me it is boring at home and that she is bored! but that changes from day to day. I have signed them up for some fun science classes near by and they are in dance, riding ect.. ***
If you have bored kids, then what you are doing really does look like school! Most of the kids that I know that go to school, are terribly bored with it. If home is like school, then of course the kids might get bored.
Did your kids want to take fun science classes? What if they'd rather stay home and play video games or watch tv or read a book or bake a cake? Classes, even fun ones, can be really boring if it's something done by force. Sandra's said this a lot and I truly believe it too, one of the worst things about school is the lack of choice. Kids who have a lot of choices aren't bored. My kids are rarely bored. Chamille, my oldest, gets bored sometimes when all of her friends are in school, but she's still able to do other things that interest her. Sometimes the sheer act of stating ones' bored state of mind, leads to really fun and interesting things to counter that feeling.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kerry Malecha
Thanks Jenny for those great answers! having someone put my comments into perspective like that is super helpful! I cant say it makes it all 100% better but it gives me a little needed boost of confidence. I know I still have alot to learn about this!
Hugs, Kerry~
________________________________
From: Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, October 15, 2009 1:08:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] unschooling- is it for us?
***I worry about everything and because I am math challenged myself I feel like I wont ever be able to help my kids along in math.***
People who have gone through the school system and have been taught math, often have this feeling towards math. It's that feeling that math is hard and challenging, that you are no good at it, that it's something to fear and avoid because of the pain it's caused. I have a friend, Mary Lewis, if anyone knows or remembers, that has tutored math to lots of people. One of the biggest hurdles that she's encountered, is helping people get over that fear and pain that school has caused by teaching math the way they do.
I truly believe that one of the worst things we can do to our kids, is to force "math" onto them in the same ways that schools do. Some kids naturally gravitate toward numbers and patterns and logical reasoning, and it's beautiful to see them naturally explore those things, I have one of those kind of kids. Then there are some kids who really don't, yet they learn how to deal with money and make sense of geometrical patterns and lots of other mathematical concepts simply by living and doing interesting things. I have one of those kind of kids too, who's mathematical concepts came through sewing and money.
***When someone isnt doing something that looks like school I get worried and begin to make them feel bad by getting annoyed with them for not finding something to do.***
What does "looks like school" look like to you? This is what I remember from school... I was bored out of my mind with all the silly nonsense that was being thrown at me. I liked to drift off into my own inner world to escape the tedium of that. I got good grades too. It's a good thing my parents didn't view my worth through what grades I got! They saw me differently and I'm coming to realize that my parents were pretty unusual in that regard! That's another topic maybe...
So, if by "looks like school" you mean extremely bored children jumping through someone else's hoops to get to the reward of parental favor, then it might be worth examining and perhaps looking for another way to see your childrens' worth. Sometimes the most valuable thing for a child to do, is absolutely nothing, so their brains can process thoughts and percolate ideas and brainstorm to come to valuable information that's relevant to them. It's a bit of a cycle, everyone has active times where they do do do and go go go and then not so active times, times to reflect and re-energize themselves. Parents can do a lot of damage when they interrupt that cycle by placing demands that their children "look" like they are going and doing.
***I am left to believe that maybe I am just not cut out for unschooling. I mean it feels right and I understand why it works and I agree with it, but yet I cant make it work for myself. I get irritated and end up yelling at the kids ( I have 7 and it gets hectic around here).***
Some people can relax enough to get it and some aren't. My oldest daughter has a boyfriend who's dad always yells at him, rarely communicates in any other way. It's very damaging and painful. Find a way to not yell. I know that at times people, even really good parents lose their cool. Catch yourself, stop yourself, go to the bathroom, find a child that isn't triggering you and go snuggle up with that one and read them a book, or go for a walk and take whoever is already dressed with shoes and jacket on. Breathe deeply and let your heartbeat slow down and then go back and talk nicely to those kids that you know you love.
As to being irritated, if you let go of all those expectations, you might be less irritated when your kids don't meet them, and then pleasantly surprised when they go beyond what you ever thought they could or would do.
***I also have a husband who doesnt really get it (but he doesnt mind it either). I try to get him to read things but he never does(super busy farmer). I mean how can it really work when both parties arent on the same page? He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up early to do chores ect.. ***
My husband didn't really get it either, for a long time, but he does now. He worked and wasn't really doing it, so he didn't have the luxury of exploring it and getting it faster, like I did. I let my children have their own relationship with their dad. If he wanted them to do something, I tried to encourage my kids to do it because he's their dad. If he tried to force it or shame them, I'd step in, but really he's never been unreasonable about things like that, so mostly I let it go.
If the harmony of your house depends on your kids getting up early and doing chores, I'd find a way to make that pleasant. If dad can be talked out of that and is able to let that go, then I'd work on that. Maybe a little of both.
***My 9 year old tells me it is boring at home and that she is bored! but that changes from day to day. I have signed them up for some fun science classes near by and they are in dance, riding ect.. ***
If you have bored kids, then what you are doing really does look like school! Most of the kids that I know that go to school, are terribly bored with it. If home is like school, then of course the kids might get bored.
Did your kids want to take fun science classes? What if they'd rather stay home and play video games or watch tv or read a book or bake a cake? Classes, even fun ones, can be really boring if it's something done by force. Sandra's said this a lot and I truly believe it too, one of the worst things about school is the lack of choice. Kids who have a lot of choices aren't bored. My kids are rarely bored. Chamille, my oldest, gets bored sometimes when all of her friends are in school, but she's still able to do other things that interest her. Sometimes the sheer act of stating ones' bored state of mind, leads to really fun and interesting things to counter that feeling.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hugs, Kerry~
________________________________
From: Jenny Cyphers <jenstarc4@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, October 15, 2009 1:08:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] unschooling- is it for us?
***I worry about everything and because I am math challenged myself I feel like I wont ever be able to help my kids along in math.***
People who have gone through the school system and have been taught math, often have this feeling towards math. It's that feeling that math is hard and challenging, that you are no good at it, that it's something to fear and avoid because of the pain it's caused. I have a friend, Mary Lewis, if anyone knows or remembers, that has tutored math to lots of people. One of the biggest hurdles that she's encountered, is helping people get over that fear and pain that school has caused by teaching math the way they do.
I truly believe that one of the worst things we can do to our kids, is to force "math" onto them in the same ways that schools do. Some kids naturally gravitate toward numbers and patterns and logical reasoning, and it's beautiful to see them naturally explore those things, I have one of those kind of kids. Then there are some kids who really don't, yet they learn how to deal with money and make sense of geometrical patterns and lots of other mathematical concepts simply by living and doing interesting things. I have one of those kind of kids too, who's mathematical concepts came through sewing and money.
***When someone isnt doing something that looks like school I get worried and begin to make them feel bad by getting annoyed with them for not finding something to do.***
What does "looks like school" look like to you? This is what I remember from school... I was bored out of my mind with all the silly nonsense that was being thrown at me. I liked to drift off into my own inner world to escape the tedium of that. I got good grades too. It's a good thing my parents didn't view my worth through what grades I got! They saw me differently and I'm coming to realize that my parents were pretty unusual in that regard! That's another topic maybe...
So, if by "looks like school" you mean extremely bored children jumping through someone else's hoops to get to the reward of parental favor, then it might be worth examining and perhaps looking for another way to see your childrens' worth. Sometimes the most valuable thing for a child to do, is absolutely nothing, so their brains can process thoughts and percolate ideas and brainstorm to come to valuable information that's relevant to them. It's a bit of a cycle, everyone has active times where they do do do and go go go and then not so active times, times to reflect and re-energize themselves. Parents can do a lot of damage when they interrupt that cycle by placing demands that their children "look" like they are going and doing.
***I am left to believe that maybe I am just not cut out for unschooling. I mean it feels right and I understand why it works and I agree with it, but yet I cant make it work for myself. I get irritated and end up yelling at the kids ( I have 7 and it gets hectic around here).***
Some people can relax enough to get it and some aren't. My oldest daughter has a boyfriend who's dad always yells at him, rarely communicates in any other way. It's very damaging and painful. Find a way to not yell. I know that at times people, even really good parents lose their cool. Catch yourself, stop yourself, go to the bathroom, find a child that isn't triggering you and go snuggle up with that one and read them a book, or go for a walk and take whoever is already dressed with shoes and jacket on. Breathe deeply and let your heartbeat slow down and then go back and talk nicely to those kids that you know you love.
As to being irritated, if you let go of all those expectations, you might be less irritated when your kids don't meet them, and then pleasantly surprised when they go beyond what you ever thought they could or would do.
***I also have a husband who doesnt really get it (but he doesnt mind it either). I try to get him to read things but he never does(super busy farmer). I mean how can it really work when both parties arent on the same page? He believes in a strong forced work ethic and kids getting up early to do chores ect.. ***
My husband didn't really get it either, for a long time, but he does now. He worked and wasn't really doing it, so he didn't have the luxury of exploring it and getting it faster, like I did. I let my children have their own relationship with their dad. If he wanted them to do something, I tried to encourage my kids to do it because he's their dad. If he tried to force it or shame them, I'd step in, but really he's never been unreasonable about things like that, so mostly I let it go.
If the harmony of your house depends on your kids getting up early and doing chores, I'd find a way to make that pleasant. If dad can be talked out of that and is able to let that go, then I'd work on that. Maybe a little of both.
***My 9 year old tells me it is boring at home and that she is bored! but that changes from day to day. I have signed them up for some fun science classes near by and they are in dance, riding ect.. ***
If you have bored kids, then what you are doing really does look like school! Most of the kids that I know that go to school, are terribly bored with it. If home is like school, then of course the kids might get bored.
Did your kids want to take fun science classes? What if they'd rather stay home and play video games or watch tv or read a book or bake a cake? Classes, even fun ones, can be really boring if it's something done by force. Sandra's said this a lot and I truly believe it too, one of the worst things about school is the lack of choice. Kids who have a lot of choices aren't bored. My kids are rarely bored. Chamille, my oldest, gets bored sometimes when all of her friends are in school, but she's still able to do other things that interest her. Sometimes the sheer act of stating ones' bored state of mind, leads to really fun and interesting things to counter that feeling.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]