When unschoolers do seem to be "behind"
Sandra Dodd
This was discussed in Joyce's car, with her daughter Kathryn and with
me, Holly and Marty, and then I've reported it a few times--speaking,
and online, but I don't think it's on a webpage.
I received the question below and I don't have an answer. If anyone
remembers, please post a link or memory jogger. Thanks!
Sandra
-=-I've been searching your website, trying to find an article of
yours that I loved from quite a while back, but my memory is not
serving me well. Maybe you'll remember it. The part that I'm
remembering is your reference to school kids during the intermediate
years and unschoolers during their intermediate years (maybe ages 8-12
or so). You mention how before this period, unschoolers seem to shine
and "keep up" quite comparably, but then school kids start learning
fancy academic stuff and unschoolers might feel a bit of a lull or a
lack of this type of specific learning in their everyday lives. Then
toward the middle school years, school kids start to burn out and lose
interest in learning, and that can be when unschoolers really take off
with their own passionate learning and start to shine again in big ways.
-=-I've found this to be true myself, and you expressed the details so
well. Anyway, if you can remember this article or the context of this
topic, I'd be grateful. -=-
me, Holly and Marty, and then I've reported it a few times--speaking,
and online, but I don't think it's on a webpage.
I received the question below and I don't have an answer. If anyone
remembers, please post a link or memory jogger. Thanks!
Sandra
-=-I've been searching your website, trying to find an article of
yours that I loved from quite a while back, but my memory is not
serving me well. Maybe you'll remember it. The part that I'm
remembering is your reference to school kids during the intermediate
years and unschoolers during their intermediate years (maybe ages 8-12
or so). You mention how before this period, unschoolers seem to shine
and "keep up" quite comparably, but then school kids start learning
fancy academic stuff and unschoolers might feel a bit of a lull or a
lack of this type of specific learning in their everyday lives. Then
toward the middle school years, school kids start to burn out and lose
interest in learning, and that can be when unschoolers really take off
with their own passionate learning and start to shine again in big ways.
-=-I've found this to be true myself, and you expressed the details so
well. Anyway, if you can remember this article or the context of this
topic, I'd be grateful. -=-
Marina DeLuca-Howard
I don't have the link but I can give a recent real-life example from my
life--which I am really excited to share.
Unschoolers live their lives, so they use math and read to further their own
ends ;)
My son(almost ten) doesn't read comics or novels. If he was in school this
would be really problematic and admin people would be conspiring to help him
*overcome* this situation. Instead he is happily life learning. He will
ask to be read books that attract his attention--following along. He will
enjoy Shakespeare in the Park at a local park--laughing at the jokes.
Recently, he became interested in fishing, and convinced his dad to buy some
"fishing literature". The literature is aimed at adults. I looked at the
bill and winced--it seemed like a lot of money. I pictured myself reading
fishing information out loud for days on end. Of course when John buys
books for himself on furniture or Rowan buys novels I don't worry. So I
caught myself thinking we were spending money on something boring and
smiled--happy we were able to give Martin a chance to follow his interests,
too! I don't enjoy fishing, but I love my son very much and vowed to sit
and read with him.
Of course the other day I sat next to Marty while he read to *me* all about
Brook Trout from one of his fishing guides--fluently and unhesitatingly. He
is turning ten soon and he wants more fishing equipment, so he knows all the
prices and is comparing numbers to find the best deals. He then showed me
some maps and explained he wanted to take a fishing trip next year as a
family. After our conversation was over I realized he had done in one week
quite joyfully: what would have taken years of pain at school. His reading
had taken off, he was doing math with large numbers, and plotting routes on
maps all with an excited smile on his face. I feel so lucky to have
stumbled on to the philosophy of life learning and wish all parents could
have this feeling I am experiencing as I type this--peace mingled with
contentment!
Marina
--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
life--which I am really excited to share.
Unschoolers live their lives, so they use math and read to further their own
ends ;)
My son(almost ten) doesn't read comics or novels. If he was in school this
would be really problematic and admin people would be conspiring to help him
*overcome* this situation. Instead he is happily life learning. He will
ask to be read books that attract his attention--following along. He will
enjoy Shakespeare in the Park at a local park--laughing at the jokes.
Recently, he became interested in fishing, and convinced his dad to buy some
"fishing literature". The literature is aimed at adults. I looked at the
bill and winced--it seemed like a lot of money. I pictured myself reading
fishing information out loud for days on end. Of course when John buys
books for himself on furniture or Rowan buys novels I don't worry. So I
caught myself thinking we were spending money on something boring and
smiled--happy we were able to give Martin a chance to follow his interests,
too! I don't enjoy fishing, but I love my son very much and vowed to sit
and read with him.
Of course the other day I sat next to Marty while he read to *me* all about
Brook Trout from one of his fishing guides--fluently and unhesitatingly. He
is turning ten soon and he wants more fishing equipment, so he knows all the
prices and is comparing numbers to find the best deals. He then showed me
some maps and explained he wanted to take a fishing trip next year as a
family. After our conversation was over I realized he had done in one week
quite joyfully: what would have taken years of pain at school. His reading
had taken off, he was doing math with large numbers, and plotting routes on
maps all with an excited smile on his face. I feel so lucky to have
stumbled on to the philosophy of life learning and wish all parents could
have this feeling I am experiencing as I type this--peace mingled with
contentment!
Marina
--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ridingmom1
A friend shared a podcast of yours from a radio show--could it have been radio freeschool?--years ago, like maybe 4 years ago, that was on this exact subject. It allowed me to feel very rooted in confidence during those years.
Joanna
Joanna
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> This was discussed in Joyce's car, with her daughter Kathryn and with
> me, Holly and Marty, and then I've reported it a few times--speaking,
> and online, but I don't think it's on a webpage.
>
> I received the question below and I don't have an answer. If anyone
> remembers, please post a link or memory jogger. Thanks!
>
> Sandra
>
>
> -=-I've been searching your website, trying to find an article of
> yours that I loved from quite a while back, but my memory is not
> serving me well. Maybe you'll remember it. The part that I'm
> remembering is your reference to school kids during the intermediate
> years and unschoolers during their intermediate years (maybe ages 8-12
> or so). You mention how before this period, unschoolers seem to shine
> and "keep up" quite comparably, but then school kids start learning
> fancy academic stuff and unschoolers might feel a bit of a lull or a
> lack of this type of specific learning in their everyday lives. Then
> toward the middle school years, school kids start to burn out and lose
> interest in learning, and that can be when unschoolers really take off
> with their own passionate learning and start to shine again in big ways.
>
> -=-I've found this to be true myself, and you expressed the details so
> well. Anyway, if you can remember this article or the context of this
> topic, I'd be grateful. -=-
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-A friend shared a podcast of yours from a radio show--could it have
been radio freeschool?--years ago, like maybe 4 years ago, that was on
this exact subject. It allowed me to feel very rooted in confidence
during those years.-=-
Okay, thanks!
If so, then it would also have been in Life Learning Magazine.
Ah. My site used to have a link to the PDF of that magazine, but now
it's password protected. :-/
It's the July/August 2005 issue. There's a picture of a woman sitting
in green grass on the cover.
I'll scan the article and put that up, since it's not available
otherwise anymore. That issue has been sold out for years.
If you want to listen to it, there's an online sound file here:
http://emma2.radio4all.net/pub/archive/04.01.05/grassroots@.../125-1-20050321-0316rfsc32.mp3
or you can download it here:
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/11724
She cut out all my breathing and pauses so it's very compact. So it's
my real voice, but as though I never had to think or breathe. <g>
The music is loud at the beginning, but the next song they stick in is
not too loud. 3/4 through there's something loudish again. I didn't
pick the music. <bwg>
Before it gets to the topic in question, I'm talking about strewing
and 1970's open classroom stuff, choices, and then just before the
middle of the file is that part.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
been radio freeschool?--years ago, like maybe 4 years ago, that was on
this exact subject. It allowed me to feel very rooted in confidence
during those years.-=-
Okay, thanks!
If so, then it would also have been in Life Learning Magazine.
Ah. My site used to have a link to the PDF of that magazine, but now
it's password protected. :-/
It's the July/August 2005 issue. There's a picture of a woman sitting
in green grass on the cover.
I'll scan the article and put that up, since it's not available
otherwise anymore. That issue has been sold out for years.
If you want to listen to it, there's an online sound file here:
http://emma2.radio4all.net/pub/archive/04.01.05/grassroots@.../125-1-20050321-0316rfsc32.mp3
or you can download it here:
http://www.radio4all.net/index.php/program/11724
She cut out all my breathing and pauses so it's very compact. So it's
my real voice, but as though I never had to think or breathe. <g>
The music is loud at the beginning, but the next song they stick in is
not too loud. 3/4 through there's something loudish again. I didn't
pick the music. <bwg>
Before it gets to the topic in question, I'm talking about strewing
and 1970's open classroom stuff, choices, and then just before the
middle of the file is that part.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marcia
Yes, that's it! Thank you so much. I originally read the magazine
interview because whenever I think about that topic, I remember seeing
the details in print, and sure enough, I still have a copy of that Life
Learning July 2005 issue. It's a wonderful interview, and I'm glad
people will have access to it once again.
~ Marcia
interview because whenever I think about that topic, I remember seeing
the details in print, and sure enough, I still have a copy of that Life
Learning July 2005 issue. It's a wonderful interview, and I'm glad
people will have access to it once again.
~ Marcia
Sandra Dodd
-=-Yes, that's it! Thank you so much. I originally read the magazine
interview because whenever I think about that topic, I remember seeing
the details in print, and sure enough, I still have a copy of that Life
Learning July 2005 issue. It's a wonderful interview, and I'm glad
people will have access to it once again.-=-
I'm glad you asked while it was still findable, and that I can put it
on my site.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
interview because whenever I think about that topic, I remember seeing
the details in print, and sure enough, I still have a copy of that Life
Learning July 2005 issue. It's a wonderful interview, and I'm glad
people will have access to it once again.-=-
I'm glad you asked while it was still findable, and that I can put it
on my site.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
joanna514
I've been feeling for the past few years that my son Jack was seen as "behind" by the people closest to us, who do not unschool. He is almost 13 and has just really emerged as a reader. This summer he took a robotics day camp at our local Parks and Rec. He ended up being the "go to guy" when the councelors had too many kids asking questions or needing help, or if they, themselves couldn't figure it out.
We switched dentists this spring and Jack has been going a lot for a root canal issue and other things because our last dentist was horrible and had put fillings on top of decay. (long story) Anyway, after yesterday's 1 1/2 hour procedure, the dentist asked me what kind of grades Jack made. I said "we homeschool" and he started talking about how Jack asks a lot of thoughtful and interesting questions, not like the "stupid stuff" (his words) most 12 year olds seem to talk about.
When he was little, people use to comment on his curiosity and intelligence a lot. It seems we are coming back into the upswing of this theory.
Joanna W.
We switched dentists this spring and Jack has been going a lot for a root canal issue and other things because our last dentist was horrible and had put fillings on top of decay. (long story) Anyway, after yesterday's 1 1/2 hour procedure, the dentist asked me what kind of grades Jack made. I said "we homeschool" and he started talking about how Jack asks a lot of thoughtful and interesting questions, not like the "stupid stuff" (his words) most 12 year olds seem to talk about.
When he was little, people use to comment on his curiosity and intelligence a lot. It seems we are coming back into the upswing of this theory.
Joanna W.
Sandra Dodd
Joanna, that was perfect and I'll save it. I'm in the last bits of
packing for the conference and I can't make a page today, but I do
mean to make a page about this idea of the "learning curve" or
whatever it ends up being called. School assumes an incremental year-
by-year adding to a "finished" body of knowledge. Unschooling works
in seasons that last more than a year, and certainly more than six or
nine weeks, but unschooling also moves in bursts that school has no
allowances for or expectation of at all.
Sandra
packing for the conference and I can't make a page today, but I do
mean to make a page about this idea of the "learning curve" or
whatever it ends up being called. School assumes an incremental year-
by-year adding to a "finished" body of knowledge. Unschooling works
in seasons that last more than a year, and certainly more than six or
nine weeks, but unschooling also moves in bursts that school has no
allowances for or expectation of at all.
Sandra
Jenny Cyphers
When he was little, people use to comment on his curiosity and intelligence a lot. It seems we are coming back into the upswing of this theory.
That's been my experience. There is this age between 9 and 12 where kids in elementary and middle school seem to be doing and learning more. The mulitiplication tables was a big trigger thing.
My experience with Chamille, is that she was doing way different things than all those kids in school, now at the age of 15, she knows similar things as they do, but more, and more personal, for more personal reasons.
She may not know math language or other formal schoolish things, but she does know how to figure things out in her head. You could take any subject that is in school and I could tell you a way in which Chamille has been exposed to the same kinds of information. Through exposure, she's been able to learn things. Of course, unlike school, everything she's been exposed to she's learned from. I find that school kids often tune these things out.
Now that she is a bit older, what she does, looks NOTHING like school, yet her knowledge is profound and meaningful. There is very little to compare to with school, contrast maybe, but for comparison sake there is little similarity.
It's hard to encounter doubt in unschooling, yet, if you can get past it, by the time your kid is a teen, it's easy to relax. Especially if you look around and get to know other school kids, who struggle with school pressure and peer pressure and parent pressure. I can look at Chamille and see that she is relaxed about herself and confident in what she DOES know, that the things she struggles with are avoidable or workable. She's not stuck in her thinking or her life. When she encounters things that upset her, it's usually about someone else's misery, not her own.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's been my experience. There is this age between 9 and 12 where kids in elementary and middle school seem to be doing and learning more. The mulitiplication tables was a big trigger thing.
My experience with Chamille, is that she was doing way different things than all those kids in school, now at the age of 15, she knows similar things as they do, but more, and more personal, for more personal reasons.
She may not know math language or other formal schoolish things, but she does know how to figure things out in her head. You could take any subject that is in school and I could tell you a way in which Chamille has been exposed to the same kinds of information. Through exposure, she's been able to learn things. Of course, unlike school, everything she's been exposed to she's learned from. I find that school kids often tune these things out.
Now that she is a bit older, what she does, looks NOTHING like school, yet her knowledge is profound and meaningful. There is very little to compare to with school, contrast maybe, but for comparison sake there is little similarity.
It's hard to encounter doubt in unschooling, yet, if you can get past it, by the time your kid is a teen, it's easy to relax. Especially if you look around and get to know other school kids, who struggle with school pressure and peer pressure and parent pressure. I can look at Chamille and see that she is relaxed about herself and confident in what she DOES know, that the things she struggles with are avoidable or workable. She's not stuck in her thinking or her life. When she encounters things that upset her, it's usually about someone else's misery, not her own.
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]