Jenny C

The other day Chamille was reading over my shoulder about freedom,
something Sandra wrote. Since people have been talking about this idea
recently here, I thought I'd put out there what Chamille said. It was
very simple and concise, she said that parents can't give their children
freedom, but they could give them free will. I'm certain it wasn't
phrased in that way, but with that general meaning.

I've been thinking about it ever since she said it, turning it around in
my head over and over. It's definitely related to freedom, but free
will involves choices of what one does with the freedom they have.
Upon looking up "free will" in wikipedia, you can see how philosophers
have hashed this idea out over the years.

I told someone once that her choice to force church on her daughter
wasn't extending the "free will" that God gave her, to her daughter.
The very fact that kids aren't seen as people is glaring wether or not
you believe in God or going to church.

An unschooling parent can allow their children free will, and children
can run with it making both good and bad choices and learning from each
and every one of them. And an unschooling parent can create a framework
in which free will can be a part of life without making it a free for
all, as in, do whatever you want, I don't care because you have the
freedom to do so.

rpindc04

I am pondering (struggling?) with this distinction/balance.

> And an unschooling parent can create a framework
> in which free will can be a part of life without making it a free for
> all, as in, do whatever you want, I don't care because you have the
> freedom to do so.
>

Where do you draw lines? How do you decide? How do both parents in a 2-parent household come together on the zillions of little and big decisions that constitute these answers?

We went from public school to unschooling for a year, and feel like we ended up in a free for all, to everyone's detriment. Now we are reassessing, and trying to find a better path.

Any thoughts appreciated.



Robbin

Marina DeLuca-Howard

>>We went from public school to unschooling for a year, and feel like we
ended up in a free for all, >>to everyone's detriment.

Here are some yardsticks I used...

Do you offer lots of help, advice, love, hugs? Are you family's basic needs
being met--food, shelter, clothing?

alternately...some tongue in cheek questions...
Have you gone into debt purchasing things you could not afford, jeopardizing
your financial well-being and your house is being auctioned off by
creditors? Did the seven year old get a permanent tattoo that he/she drew
on themselves using discarded needles they found in a park they frequent
alone? Does everyone still have all their original equipment--nobody had
anything amputated by chainsaws they explored on their own? None of the
children have moved out and are panhandling for money? Are social
workers/police officers knocking on your door because your children are on a
robbing spree? Is one of the children selling off bathtub gin, leftover
from his/her science experiment?

Just wondering what you mean by out of control,
Marina

2009/8/18 rpindc04 <robbin_mp@...>

>
>
> I am pondering (struggling?) with this distinction/balance.
>
> > And an unschooling parent can create a framework
> > in which free will can be a part of life without making it a free for
> > all, as in, do whatever you want, I don't care because you have the
> > freedom to do so.
> >
>
> Where do you draw lines? How do you decide? How do both parents in a
> 2-parent household come together on the zillions of little and big decisions
> that constitute these answers?
>
> We went from public school to unschooling for a year, and feel like we
> ended up in a free for all, to everyone's detriment. Now we are reassessing,
> and trying to find a better path.
>
> Any thoughts appreciated.
>
> Robbin
>
>
>



--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> Where do you draw lines? How do you decide? How do both parents in a
2-parent household come together on the zillions of little and big
decisions that constitute these answers?
>
> We went from public school to unschooling for a year, and feel like we
ended up in a free for all, to everyone's detriment. Now we are
reassessing, and trying to find a better path.
>


That's just it though, you had the freedom to do what you wanted. My
husband could potentially buy a new car tomorrow. He has the freedom to
do so and his own free will to make that decision. I know he will not
make decisions like that without thinking first about how it affects
everyone else and talking to me about it. Some kids are really
responsible with their choices and some need help with making any
choices.

I don't think it's about drawing lines, it's more about presenting a
path of choices and accepting the chosen path and then helping the child
along it. When a child wakes up in the morning, they are immediately
presented with choices, do I stay in bed, do I stay in bed and watch tv,
do I get up and go to the bathroom, do I stay up, do I then get dressed,
do I stay in my pj's, do I go get some breakfast, do I ask someone to
get me breakfast, do I sit on the couch or the floor or at the kitchen
table?

Some kids get up at 7 am sharp and get dressed with a parent chosen
outfit, go directly to the breakfast table and then off to summer camp
after they've brushed their teeth and their hair and put on the
appropriate parent chosen shoes. If you aren't doing that, then you,
the parent, have chosen to give your child some freedom in which they
can use their free will to live in. If the parent still believes that
comfort and food are a good thing, they'll find a way to present some
comfort and food as really desirable options to choose from.

The other day, Margaux was getting ready to go out with me to the store.
It was chilly in the house, but I knew that it was already in the upper
80 degrees outside and so I let her know and suggested that she pick
shorts and short sleeves and put on a sweater. She refused to do so.
It wasn't worth arguing about or making a big deal about. I'd given her
the information she needed to know and helped her put on her long pants
and long sleeved shirt. We left and she was hot, I helped her roll up
her pant legs and long sleeves, and she was comfortable in the stores
with air conditioning. As soon as we got home, she changed her
clothing. It would have been nice if she hadn't beem hot and irritated,
but that small amount of hot and irritation was small compared to how
she would've reacted to me forcing her to wear something that she didn't
want to wear.

If we had been going to the playground to play for many hours, there are
many things that I would've done to make things go well for Margaux and
her clothing choice. That, I suppose would be the frame work. I
would've packed alternate clothing and cool drinks and food and a park
with shade. I want her to be able to choose what she wants to wear, to
make those kinds of decisions for herself, but since I also value
comfort, I'll make sure that those are options too. I don't have to do
that though, I could go and let her suffer through her choice. Just
like I could let her be mean to other children on the playground without
jumping in and smoothing things out.