Re. my original post: On trusting a child's "capability"...So-called trust.
ellinghamsandwich
I just listened to Quinn's interview & realized that Barb didn't just walk away & let him stay on this tree overhanging the Grand Canyon for long...she instead came back after a few minutes & invited him to join in with their family which would hopefully lure him off the tree (I am assuming this was her intention), without panicking and showing any distrust.
So maybe I misinterpreted this interview when I first heard it. I'm still interested in others' thoughts on this sort of trust. Maybe the 2 examples of Quinn's childhood don't apply now that I see this differently but I still don't see this as "trusting" a child. I see it as more of showing support and respect in a child's interest yet redirecting them into something safer knowing a situation is potential dangerous versus allowing them to just remain in those type of situations like the mom i mentioned previously who's toddler was on the riverside ledge. Not being dramatic and panicky is a great thing...but man oh man...I'm not all about letting my young child be in danger and not doing a thing about it whatsoever, just allowing them to stay there as long as they wish. I'm not going to let my toddler just walk across the street by himself and 'trust' that he will make it across unharmed. I think this is where many people, including Unschoolers think Unschooling means we just let the kids do whatever, whenever they want. There has to be a balance. And protection on our parts sometimes.
So maybe I misinterpreted this interview when I first heard it. I'm still interested in others' thoughts on this sort of trust. Maybe the 2 examples of Quinn's childhood don't apply now that I see this differently but I still don't see this as "trusting" a child. I see it as more of showing support and respect in a child's interest yet redirecting them into something safer knowing a situation is potential dangerous versus allowing them to just remain in those type of situations like the mom i mentioned previously who's toddler was on the riverside ledge. Not being dramatic and panicky is a great thing...but man oh man...I'm not all about letting my young child be in danger and not doing a thing about it whatsoever, just allowing them to stay there as long as they wish. I'm not going to let my toddler just walk across the street by himself and 'trust' that he will make it across unharmed. I think this is where many people, including Unschoolers think Unschooling means we just let the kids do whatever, whenever they want. There has to be a balance. And protection on our parts sometimes.
Sandra Dodd
-=-So maybe I misinterpreted this interview when I first heard it. -=-
I don't have an hour to watch a video these days anyway, with the book-
polishing going on, but please be careful what you say about people,
especially when you're naming them full out. He survived the tree.
He needs to survive the internet, too. <g>
-=-I'm not going to let my toddler just walk across the street by
himself and 'trust' that he will make it across unharmed.-=-
Is this a straw man? A straw toddler walking across a hypothetical
street?
-=- I think this ******"THIS" meaning hypothetical or misunderstood
situations? ******* is where many people, including Unschoolers think
Unschooling means we just let the kids do whatever, whenever they
want. There has to be a balance. And protection on our parts
sometimes. -=-
Okay, problem:
-=-...think Unschooling means we just let the kids do whatever...-=-
Is there a "we"? I took care of my own kids and I wrote and exchanged
ideas and stories with a few at first, and later dozens and then
hundreds of other families. Maybe thousands in the overallness of
years. But "We" didn't take let all unschooling kids do anything.
Each of us was present with our own chidlren. No one did, no one
could, give other people any permission to do or not to do anything
with their own children.
Any mother who is so lacking in her own ability to think and discern
information that she blindly did anything is the weak link in the
situation. Schools are out there, free. Any mother who decides to
take on the task of providing those governmentally-required parts of
life for her own children needs to have the guts and brains to pull it
off. I know some have more than others, but discussions such as this
were always intended to help people figure it out, not to give them
magical freedom or exemptions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't have an hour to watch a video these days anyway, with the book-
polishing going on, but please be careful what you say about people,
especially when you're naming them full out. He survived the tree.
He needs to survive the internet, too. <g>
-=-I'm not going to let my toddler just walk across the street by
himself and 'trust' that he will make it across unharmed.-=-
Is this a straw man? A straw toddler walking across a hypothetical
street?
-=- I think this ******"THIS" meaning hypothetical or misunderstood
situations? ******* is where many people, including Unschoolers think
Unschooling means we just let the kids do whatever, whenever they
want. There has to be a balance. And protection on our parts
sometimes. -=-
Okay, problem:
-=-...think Unschooling means we just let the kids do whatever...-=-
Is there a "we"? I took care of my own kids and I wrote and exchanged
ideas and stories with a few at first, and later dozens and then
hundreds of other families. Maybe thousands in the overallness of
years. But "We" didn't take let all unschooling kids do anything.
Each of us was present with our own chidlren. No one did, no one
could, give other people any permission to do or not to do anything
with their own children.
Any mother who is so lacking in her own ability to think and discern
information that she blindly did anything is the weak link in the
situation. Schools are out there, free. Any mother who decides to
take on the task of providing those governmentally-required parts of
life for her own children needs to have the guts and brains to pull it
off. I know some have more than others, but discussions such as this
were always intended to help people figure it out, not to give them
magical freedom or exemptions.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
JoyErin
-=-So maybe I misinterpreted this interview when I first heard it. -=-
I listened to the beginning of that interview and heard the bit about him
being in that tree. I thought it was confusing at first what his point of
that story was the way he told it. What I took from that interview was that
he was trying to give an example how his mother as an unschooling parent
handled that situation differently than many traditional parents would. She
was very afraid but didn't freak as she knew that would have only scared him
then and very possibly made things worse. She did want him out of that tree
though and so thought of something to entice him off and away from there.
Joy
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18:27:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I listened to the beginning of that interview and heard the bit about him
being in that tree. I thought it was confusing at first what his point of
that story was the way he told it. What I took from that interview was that
he was trying to give an example how his mother as an unschooling parent
handled that situation differently than many traditional parents would. She
was very afraid but didn't freak as she knew that would have only scared him
then and very possibly made things worse. She did want him out of that tree
though and so thought of something to entice him off and away from there.
Joy
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.50/2296 - Release Date: 08/11/09
18:27:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ren Allen
~~She did want him out of that tree
though and so thought of something to entice him off and away from there.~~
And just for the record, since their names were used, I've met both Barb and Quin and found them to be very connected, interesting people. She described some of their interactions when he was doing things that causes distress and it sounds to me like she was very practical (gave him feedback on the situation) and still supported HIM even when she didn't agree with his choices. There was a lot of trust but also practical, solid information sharing. I don't see her as someone who would just turn her back on a dangerous situation.
There's a whole lot of information that affects situations in which our children are doing potentially dangerous things. If I just said "I let my children ride in the back of my truck" it doesn't explain enough. There's so much creative thinking that goes into addressing each of these situations.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
though and so thought of something to entice him off and away from there.~~
And just for the record, since their names were used, I've met both Barb and Quin and found them to be very connected, interesting people. She described some of their interactions when he was doing things that causes distress and it sounds to me like she was very practical (gave him feedback on the situation) and still supported HIM even when she didn't agree with his choices. There was a lot of trust but also practical, solid information sharing. I don't see her as someone who would just turn her back on a dangerous situation.
There's a whole lot of information that affects situations in which our children are doing potentially dangerous things. If I just said "I let my children ride in the back of my truck" it doesn't explain enough. There's so much creative thinking that goes into addressing each of these situations.
Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
ellinghamsandwich
So true, Ren.
Also, I want to clarify that I did not intend to convey that I felt Barb was a mom who just turned her back or wasn't connected to her son/kids. I know that she very much the opposite. Quinn sounds like quite the explorer (even still) and a lot of this is just about who HE is. He takes a LOT of risks. He even ate meat he found in dumpsters as an older teen and/or young adult. Seems awfully risky business to me...but I guess for him, that is his thing... What is a mom to do when her kid is like a monkey climbing trees hanging over the canyon and such except to entice them to come down as carefully & quickly as possible in such a situation...?!
Also, I want to clarify that I did not intend to convey that I felt Barb was a mom who just turned her back or wasn't connected to her son/kids. I know that she very much the opposite. Quinn sounds like quite the explorer (even still) and a lot of this is just about who HE is. He takes a LOT of risks. He even ate meat he found in dumpsters as an older teen and/or young adult. Seems awfully risky business to me...but I guess for him, that is his thing... What is a mom to do when her kid is like a monkey climbing trees hanging over the canyon and such except to entice them to come down as carefully & quickly as possible in such a situation...?!
--- In [email protected], "Ren Allen" <starsuncloud@...> wrote:
>
> ~~She did want him out of that tree
> though and so thought of something to entice him off and away from there.~~
>
>
> And just for the record, since their names were used, I've met both Barb and Quin and found them to be very connected, interesting people. She described some of their interactions when he was doing things that causes distress and it sounds to me like she was very practical (gave him feedback on the situation) and still supported HIM even when she didn't agree with his choices. There was a lot of trust but also practical, solid information sharing. I don't see her as someone who would just turn her back on a dangerous situation.
>
> There's a whole lot of information that affects situations in which our children are doing potentially dangerous things. If I just said "I let my children ride in the back of my truck" it doesn't explain enough. There's so much creative thinking that goes into addressing each of these situations.
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
Pam Sorooshian
On 8/13/2009 9:34 AM, ellinghamsandwich wrote:
leave him alone (trust him). There are times for that, but this seemed
too extreme an example. From a mom's point of view, the best thing was
to have anticipated the extreme danger and found ways to let a 7 yo
climb that didn't involve hanging over the rim of the Grand Canyon.
-pam
> What is a mom to do when her kid is like a monkey climbing trees hanging over the canyon and such except to entice them to come down as carefully& quickly as possible in such a situation...?!Quinn's point seemed to be that the best thing his mom could do was
>
leave him alone (trust him). There are times for that, but this seemed
too extreme an example. From a mom's point of view, the best thing was
to have anticipated the extreme danger and found ways to let a 7 yo
climb that didn't involve hanging over the rim of the Grand Canyon.
-pam