interesting article on co-sleeping and nursery school anxiety
Marina DeLuca-Howard
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1083020.ece
There was an interesting stat in this article on co-sleeping about nursery
schools. An English study shows that children's stress level goes up in
nursery school. *for more than 90%, cortisol rises when they go to
nursery. For 75%, it falls whenever they go home*(timesonline)*.
*
The article also has very recent information gathered in the last twenty
years that debunks all the "old doctor's tales" and finds proof to
substantiate the long line of "granny" advice. A friend of mine tells the
story of her late grandma coming over and finding both her daughter and
grandchild crying and asked what was wrong. The baby wanted to eat more
often than every four hours, but the doctor said if nursing the baby too
often resulted in milk drying up. Grandma, having breastfed five babies
pronounced this a load of bunk and my friend was breastfed on demand from
then on. Everybody was happier.
My mother weaned me at six weeks on the advice of a doctor, as did my
mother-in law wean my husband. I was gaining too quickly, therefore the
milk was too rich and bound to be a problem in the longterm my mother was
told by our family doctor. My husband was weaned for failure to thrive. My
mother breastfed on demand, quickly discovering the time limit didn't work.
My mother-in-law the nurse followed verbatim the medical dictums on
breastfeeding. But it seems babies couldn't win whether they gained or not!
Note the article also points to a *neurological study three years ago showed
that a child separated from a parent experienced similar brain activity to
one in physical pain(ibid)*
Kind of makes one wonder about all those pre-school/nursery school
advocates! Where I live there is a move to start full day kindergarten. I
am guessing nobody saw the studies Margot Sunderland, director of education
at the Centre for Child Mental Health in London, seems to have found!
I know as a parent my observations support gentle responsive parenting
practices. I have seen how my children are able to achieve independence on
their own terms, with confidence. It is nice to see more science to back
the importance of parent-child bonds. Maybe the unschooling teens will show
up as having optimal hormonal balances in a future study :-)
Marina
--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
There was an interesting stat in this article on co-sleeping about nursery
schools. An English study shows that children's stress level goes up in
nursery school. *for more than 90%, cortisol rises when they go to
nursery. For 75%, it falls whenever they go home*(timesonline)*.
*
The article also has very recent information gathered in the last twenty
years that debunks all the "old doctor's tales" and finds proof to
substantiate the long line of "granny" advice. A friend of mine tells the
story of her late grandma coming over and finding both her daughter and
grandchild crying and asked what was wrong. The baby wanted to eat more
often than every four hours, but the doctor said if nursing the baby too
often resulted in milk drying up. Grandma, having breastfed five babies
pronounced this a load of bunk and my friend was breastfed on demand from
then on. Everybody was happier.
My mother weaned me at six weeks on the advice of a doctor, as did my
mother-in law wean my husband. I was gaining too quickly, therefore the
milk was too rich and bound to be a problem in the longterm my mother was
told by our family doctor. My husband was weaned for failure to thrive. My
mother breastfed on demand, quickly discovering the time limit didn't work.
My mother-in-law the nurse followed verbatim the medical dictums on
breastfeeding. But it seems babies couldn't win whether they gained or not!
Note the article also points to a *neurological study three years ago showed
that a child separated from a parent experienced similar brain activity to
one in physical pain(ibid)*
Kind of makes one wonder about all those pre-school/nursery school
advocates! Where I live there is a move to start full day kindergarten. I
am guessing nobody saw the studies Margot Sunderland, director of education
at the Centre for Child Mental Health in London, seems to have found!
I know as a parent my observations support gentle responsive parenting
practices. I have seen how my children are able to achieve independence on
their own terms, with confidence. It is nice to see more science to back
the importance of parent-child bonds. Maybe the unschooling teens will show
up as having optimal hormonal balances in a future study :-)
Marina
--
Rent our cottage: http://davehoward.ca/cottage/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Wow! I'm linking it here:
http://unschooling.blogspot.com
And I have two stories to add.
First is that Kirby, who will be 23 later this month, is in town for
the weekend. Friday when he arrived, Keith his dad was asleep. He
came home from work tired, and fell asleep on the bed. So for an hour
and some, Kirby stayed out of there. Then he and Marty went to buy
Keith a gift--DVD of "Breaking Bad," filmed locally, but we don't have
cable so haven't seen it. When he got back he went back there with
the gift. I figured maybe he would just leave it there if Keith was
asleep.
What Kirby did was to lie down on the bed gently next to his dad, and
Keith woke up, also gently, and they talked.
And this, about quotes:
�What I have done in this book is present the science. Studies from
around the world show that co-sleeping until the age of five is an
investment for the child. They can have separation anxiety up to the
age of five and beyond, which can affect them in later life. This is
calmed by co-sleeping.�
I'm working on a book, as I keep saying, because when I'm here I
usually wish I was working on the book instead. But I wrote about co-
sleeping day before yesterday. I'll append that below, and everything
I have is draft at this point.
-=-Symptoms can also be physical. Sunderland quotes one study that
found some 70% of women who had not been comforted when they cried as
children developed digestive difficulties as adults.0-0
I was sitting here eating leftovers while I was reading e-mail, and
thinking about the logistics of eating, at and before the conference
in London, so that I won't need to go to the bathroom when I'm
supposed to be speaking or being attentive or charming. Sometimes the
combination of nerves and heat and quanitity of food make me suddenly
needing to leave the room. Those thoughts were passing through my
mind as I started to read the post on co-sleeping.
Oh Hema's blog recently I told about having cried myself to sleep as a
child. In the first item I'm quoting Hema's blogpost, which wasn't
really about crying:
----------
Sandra Dodd said...
-=-And they rarely if ever have tantrums, whineys etc.-=-
I felt a large shift in my understanding when I first realized, when
my kids were still little, that they had very rarely, if ever, cried
themselves to sleep.
That's a huge change, and not a small one, from my own childhood.
--------------------------------------
July 9, 2009 10:58 PM
----------
----------
Hema A Bharadwaj said...
I'm saddened to hear that... do i understand right... that you cried
yourself to sleep sometimes?
Please direct me to any essays you have on that particular 'shift in
understanding' that you refer to.
So many of my own reasons for unschooling come from being forced to
conform as a child, not being heard truly and arbit rules in place
(and hence I lied a lot), still unsettled within abotu my self worth
at 34, not being able to remember much of what i was forced to learn
at school (what a waste of time), incomplete conversations or a
complete lack of them about anger, about emotions and how to deal with
them etc. Can't wait to meet and chat with you.
--------------------------------------
July 10, 2009 9:36 AM
----------
Sandra Dodd said...
I cried myself to sleep hundreds of times, I started to write and then
i thought of whether it really could have been hundreds. "Dozens"
isn't enough. Well over a hundred times, I'm sure. Probably hundreds.
I saw in retrospect that my children had hardly ever cried. I think
once Holly was crying at night and it struck me that I hadn't seen
that, and she was already ten or eleven. It was such a "normal" part
of my growing up that I hadn't even thought of it consciously until I
saw the lack of it in someone I loved.
--------------------------------------
July 10, 2009 10:03 AM
----------
----------
globeonmytable said...
Seeing this, I realised that at first I didn't quite understand the
phrase 'crying themselves to sleep', then I remembered what that
phrase refers to.
I have just chatted to my son (11) about it and his eyes went all
round at the concept.
In the UK it is a common way of training children/babies to fall
asleep without their parents, in a room on their own, and at a set
time at night, and not at the breast. There are quite a few different
variations :( But lots of people don't do it and co-sleep or
breastfeed to sleep or read stories until the child/and adult! is
asleep.
July 11, 2009 5:30 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://unschooling.blogspot.com
And I have two stories to add.
First is that Kirby, who will be 23 later this month, is in town for
the weekend. Friday when he arrived, Keith his dad was asleep. He
came home from work tired, and fell asleep on the bed. So for an hour
and some, Kirby stayed out of there. Then he and Marty went to buy
Keith a gift--DVD of "Breaking Bad," filmed locally, but we don't have
cable so haven't seen it. When he got back he went back there with
the gift. I figured maybe he would just leave it there if Keith was
asleep.
What Kirby did was to lie down on the bed gently next to his dad, and
Keith woke up, also gently, and they talked.
And this, about quotes:
�What I have done in this book is present the science. Studies from
around the world show that co-sleeping until the age of five is an
investment for the child. They can have separation anxiety up to the
age of five and beyond, which can affect them in later life. This is
calmed by co-sleeping.�
I'm working on a book, as I keep saying, because when I'm here I
usually wish I was working on the book instead. But I wrote about co-
sleeping day before yesterday. I'll append that below, and everything
I have is draft at this point.
-=-Symptoms can also be physical. Sunderland quotes one study that
found some 70% of women who had not been comforted when they cried as
children developed digestive difficulties as adults.0-0
I was sitting here eating leftovers while I was reading e-mail, and
thinking about the logistics of eating, at and before the conference
in London, so that I won't need to go to the bathroom when I'm
supposed to be speaking or being attentive or charming. Sometimes the
combination of nerves and heat and quanitity of food make me suddenly
needing to leave the room. Those thoughts were passing through my
mind as I started to read the post on co-sleeping.
Oh Hema's blog recently I told about having cried myself to sleep as a
child. In the first item I'm quoting Hema's blogpost, which wasn't
really about crying:
----------
Sandra Dodd said...
-=-And they rarely if ever have tantrums, whineys etc.-=-
I felt a large shift in my understanding when I first realized, when
my kids were still little, that they had very rarely, if ever, cried
themselves to sleep.
That's a huge change, and not a small one, from my own childhood.
--------------------------------------
July 9, 2009 10:58 PM
----------
----------
Hema A Bharadwaj said...
I'm saddened to hear that... do i understand right... that you cried
yourself to sleep sometimes?
Please direct me to any essays you have on that particular 'shift in
understanding' that you refer to.
So many of my own reasons for unschooling come from being forced to
conform as a child, not being heard truly and arbit rules in place
(and hence I lied a lot), still unsettled within abotu my self worth
at 34, not being able to remember much of what i was forced to learn
at school (what a waste of time), incomplete conversations or a
complete lack of them about anger, about emotions and how to deal with
them etc. Can't wait to meet and chat with you.
--------------------------------------
July 10, 2009 9:36 AM
----------
Sandra Dodd said...
I cried myself to sleep hundreds of times, I started to write and then
i thought of whether it really could have been hundreds. "Dozens"
isn't enough. Well over a hundred times, I'm sure. Probably hundreds.
I saw in retrospect that my children had hardly ever cried. I think
once Holly was crying at night and it struck me that I hadn't seen
that, and she was already ten or eleven. It was such a "normal" part
of my growing up that I hadn't even thought of it consciously until I
saw the lack of it in someone I loved.
--------------------------------------
July 10, 2009 10:03 AM
----------
----------
globeonmytable said...
Seeing this, I realised that at first I didn't quite understand the
phrase 'crying themselves to sleep', then I remembered what that
phrase refers to.
I have just chatted to my son (11) about it and his eyes went all
round at the concept.
In the UK it is a common way of training children/babies to fall
asleep without their parents, in a room on their own, and at a set
time at night, and not at the breast. There are quite a few different
variations :( But lots of people don't do it and co-sleep or
breastfeed to sleep or read stories until the child/and adult! is
asleep.
July 11, 2009 5:30 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jason & Stephanie
-=-Symptoms can also be physical. Sunderland quotes one study that
found some 70% of women who had not been comforted when they cried as
children developed digestive difficulties as adults.0-0
*****I cried myself to sleep, my mom told me I was so stubborn I would cry for 3 hours and fall asleep by the door. Sounds wonderful doesn't it?
I have so much damage to undo in myself.
All of my babies slept with me, Jared(7) stayed the longest, he just got his own bed a few months ago but still climbs in bed with me in the morning.
I never put my babies away and left them to cry, oh it hurts me deeply to even think about that.
Stephanie in TN
www.learningthroughliving-stephanie.blogspot.com
http://familyrun.ning.com/profile/Stephanie
"Children do not need to be made to learn to be better, told what to do or shown how. If they are given access to enough of the world, they will see clearly enough what things are truly important to themselves and to others, and they will make for themselves a better path into that world then anyone else could make for them."
~John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
found some 70% of women who had not been comforted when they cried as
children developed digestive difficulties as adults.0-0
*****I cried myself to sleep, my mom told me I was so stubborn I would cry for 3 hours and fall asleep by the door. Sounds wonderful doesn't it?
I have so much damage to undo in myself.
All of my babies slept with me, Jared(7) stayed the longest, he just got his own bed a few months ago but still climbs in bed with me in the morning.
I never put my babies away and left them to cry, oh it hurts me deeply to even think about that.
Stephanie in TN
www.learningthroughliving-stephanie.blogspot.com
http://familyrun.ning.com/profile/Stephanie
"Children do not need to be made to learn to be better, told what to do or shown how. If they are given access to enough of the world, they will see clearly enough what things are truly important to themselves and to others, and they will make for themselves a better path into that world then anyone else could make for them."
~John Holt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
m_aduhene
my son (5) had a friend stay over also 5, but an older 5.
they both happily got into bed together. friend fell asleep quickly. then my son who shares our bed every night came and climbed in next to us, snuggled up and fell asleep. i was awoken in the night by a strange noise............the sound of crying. the little man in the other room had awoken and was crying (don't know if he does this at home.....).............just strange to hear a child cry in the night as mine have never done this. they have only had to arouse sufficiently to latch on (even if they need to rouse at all) feed happily and, all is calm and peaceful.
when my first child was born the midwife suggested putting the babay in the moses basket/cot, raising the mattress slightly at the head end, putting a breast pad with my milk on it next to her face, putting a hot water bottle in the cot to warm the mattress (and removing it before baby goes in), and then...........putting a ticking clock in there too to imitate the mother's heartbeat........
hmmm!!!!!!!!! glad to say i didn't even go there and my daughter is still with us at 8. we have all three of our children in with us and not a clock between us!!!
i have never put a crying child to bed or left a crying baby in a room alone.........cannot imagine anything worse.
blessings
michelle
they both happily got into bed together. friend fell asleep quickly. then my son who shares our bed every night came and climbed in next to us, snuggled up and fell asleep. i was awoken in the night by a strange noise............the sound of crying. the little man in the other room had awoken and was crying (don't know if he does this at home.....).............just strange to hear a child cry in the night as mine have never done this. they have only had to arouse sufficiently to latch on (even if they need to rouse at all) feed happily and, all is calm and peaceful.
when my first child was born the midwife suggested putting the babay in the moses basket/cot, raising the mattress slightly at the head end, putting a breast pad with my milk on it next to her face, putting a hot water bottle in the cot to warm the mattress (and removing it before baby goes in), and then...........putting a ticking clock in there too to imitate the mother's heartbeat........
hmmm!!!!!!!!! glad to say i didn't even go there and my daughter is still with us at 8. we have all three of our children in with us and not a clock between us!!!
i have never put a crying child to bed or left a crying baby in a room alone.........cannot imagine anything worse.
blessings
michelle
sweetsweet0nes
>This is also my experience. All of my children continue to successfully mature in different areas within their own perfect, yet varying, time frame.
> I know as a parent my observations support gentle responsive parenting
> practices. I have seen how my children are able to achieve independence on
> their own terms, with confidence. It is nice to see more science to back
> the importance of parent-child bonds.
My extreme example of this is my daughter. She was my personal "cling-on" from birth to the age of four. If I left her for five minutes or five hours she would SCREAM the entire time I was gone. Most people were adamant (and quite rude and intrusive) that I should let her cry it out or she would grow up to be a social misfit and recluse. (Most of these people wanted to hold her or baby-sit or felt she should be in the church nursery. Some even suggested that I stop nursing so she would not be so attached!?!) I have always been a rebel and continued to follow my gut and hold and spend time with all of my children, as much as they wanted. (I still do at ages 11-21, although they do not wish to be carried about anymore or sleep together often, although we often fall asleep in the same rooms. We do spend a lot of time sprawled out together on a bed, sofa or floor during the day. BWG)
When she went to kindergarten she suddenly became a confident, social butterfly. The kids loved her and she loved the kids. She stayed home after kindergarten until she chose to go to public school for 12th grade. Of course, she had a very active social life between those years. She joined the dance team, puppet team, and drama team, was in many child and teen leadership positions at church, and spent LOTS of time with friends. She and her friends created clubs and came up with all kinds of neat ideas and projects. Later, she went to school for 12th grade. During her senior year she was on the cheerleading squad, attended sporting events, prom, parties, dances, worked at the local ice cream shop and much more.
This child, who most people warned would be a social misfit and a recluse, blossomed into one of the most popular girls around. She never showed any signs of any sort of social deficiency, in fact, she was profoundly socially proficient! She will be 19 soon and continues to have an active social life, and a good job, and nice apartment.
Anyhow, all that to say that I firmly believe that the advice to "let her cry it out" is cruel and very likely would have stunted her emotional growth, and created the kinds of insecurities that lead to the negative social issues the advice-givers were warning about.
-Kathryn
clara_bellar
Hello group, I'm new here, reading as much as I can and loving it. This is my first post.
My name is Clara, DH is Gulu and our son Solal will be 1 on Friday :)
I'm one of those made physically ill by the idea of CIO - so I thought I'd post these links with new studies etc. My dream is to make CIO illegal!
Blessings,
Clara
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2572047.htm
This is an interesting article regarding what letting the baby cry does to babies brains;
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/949653/the_dangers_of_letting_your_baby\
_cry.html?cat=10
and here's an interesting one from yesterday's New York Times;
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/11/03/science/baby-s-cry-it-turns-out-can-speak-volu\
mes.html?scp=3&sq=cry%20it%20out%20baby&st=cse
My name is Clara, DH is Gulu and our son Solal will be 1 on Friday :)
I'm one of those made physically ill by the idea of CIO - so I thought I'd post these links with new studies etc. My dream is to make CIO illegal!
Blessings,
Clara
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2572047.htm
This is an interesting article regarding what letting the baby cry does to babies brains;
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/949653/the_dangers_of_letting_your_baby\
_cry.html?cat=10
and here's an interesting one from yesterday's New York Times;
http://www.nytimes.com/1981/11/03/science/baby-s-cry-it-turns-out-can-speak-volu\
mes.html?scp=3&sq=cry%20it%20out%20baby&st=cse
Nancy Machaj
Sandra Dodd said...
-=-And they rarely if ever have tantrums, whineys etc.-=-
I felt a large shift in my understanding when I first realized, when
my kids were still little, that they had very rarely, if ever, cried
themselves to sleep.
That's a huge change, and not a small one, from my own childhood.
--------------------------------------
Nancy writes:
When I was pregnant with my son, I nightweaned my daughter, who was a
little over 3 years old. I would nurse her to sleep, and then not
again until the morning when we were waking up for the day. There
were a couple of nights where she wanted to nurse more than I felt I
could to fall asleep, and a few nights where she woke up in the
middle and wanted to nurse and I reminded her I wasnt nursing until
the morning. She cried a little these few times. I felt bad that she
was upset, but I still saw the big picture. She was a 3 year old who
had nursed pretty much whenever she wanted up till then, I was only
night weaning her, instead of fully weaning her (which I was
sometimes very tempted to do!), but was continuing to nurse her thru
a pregnancy because I thought she still needed it. She was sleeping
in our bed, next to her parents, who love and hug and kiss her all
the time. I wasnt making her "cry it out", I was helping her thru a
transition.
When I was 3 my parents bought me a new bedroom set, one that I didnt
get to help pick out. I never liked it. They moved me out of my crib,
which was in a separate room from theirs, into this giant double bed
and I was terrified of it. I was afraid if I slept in the middle of
it, it would somehow cave in and the things under the bed would get
me. I slept so close to the edge that my parents often found me
fallen off the bed and onto the floor when they came upstairs to bed.
I insisted the hall light be kept on, and I usually stayed awake for
hours, telling myself stories or playing with my dolls. I felt very
lonely. Id ask my parents where they would be downstairs, so I could
know how loud Id need to yell in case of emergency. My younger sister
is 9 yrs younger than me. I remember her crying in her crib a LOT. It
was hard for me because I couldnt console her.
Also, when I got my new bed, my brother moved into another room. I
was 2 when he was born, and when they brought him home, they had a
(separate) room all set up for him, but I insisted that they move "my
baby" into my room. My mom said it was strange to have two cribs next
to each other in my room, but I wouldnt let them move him out.
I have thought many times over the last 5 years that being the mother
I want to be is healing the child I used to be. When I was pregnant
the first time I saw Sandra's quote, something like, be the mother of
your child, not the child of your mother.. ? have I got it right? It
made a huge impression on me.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-And they rarely if ever have tantrums, whineys etc.-=-
I felt a large shift in my understanding when I first realized, when
my kids were still little, that they had very rarely, if ever, cried
themselves to sleep.
That's a huge change, and not a small one, from my own childhood.
--------------------------------------
Nancy writes:
When I was pregnant with my son, I nightweaned my daughter, who was a
little over 3 years old. I would nurse her to sleep, and then not
again until the morning when we were waking up for the day. There
were a couple of nights where she wanted to nurse more than I felt I
could to fall asleep, and a few nights where she woke up in the
middle and wanted to nurse and I reminded her I wasnt nursing until
the morning. She cried a little these few times. I felt bad that she
was upset, but I still saw the big picture. She was a 3 year old who
had nursed pretty much whenever she wanted up till then, I was only
night weaning her, instead of fully weaning her (which I was
sometimes very tempted to do!), but was continuing to nurse her thru
a pregnancy because I thought she still needed it. She was sleeping
in our bed, next to her parents, who love and hug and kiss her all
the time. I wasnt making her "cry it out", I was helping her thru a
transition.
When I was 3 my parents bought me a new bedroom set, one that I didnt
get to help pick out. I never liked it. They moved me out of my crib,
which was in a separate room from theirs, into this giant double bed
and I was terrified of it. I was afraid if I slept in the middle of
it, it would somehow cave in and the things under the bed would get
me. I slept so close to the edge that my parents often found me
fallen off the bed and onto the floor when they came upstairs to bed.
I insisted the hall light be kept on, and I usually stayed awake for
hours, telling myself stories or playing with my dolls. I felt very
lonely. Id ask my parents where they would be downstairs, so I could
know how loud Id need to yell in case of emergency. My younger sister
is 9 yrs younger than me. I remember her crying in her crib a LOT. It
was hard for me because I couldnt console her.
Also, when I got my new bed, my brother moved into another room. I
was 2 when he was born, and when they brought him home, they had a
(separate) room all set up for him, but I insisted that they move "my
baby" into my room. My mom said it was strange to have two cribs next
to each other in my room, but I wouldnt let them move him out.
I have thought many times over the last 5 years that being the mother
I want to be is healing the child I used to be. When I was pregnant
the first time I saw Sandra's quote, something like, be the mother of
your child, not the child of your mother.. ? have I got it right? It
made a huge impression on me.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have thought many times over the last 5 years that being the mother
I want to be is healing the child I used to be. When I was pregnant
the first time I saw Sandra's quote, something like, be the mother of
your child, not the child of your mother.. ? have I got it right? It
made a huge impression on me.-=-
I had to look a bit, but here it is, from "Zen Everything":
Instead of being my mother's child, I am my children's mother.
The line following it, in that writing is:
My mother did the best she could, I suppose. I need to do the best I
can do.
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I want to be is healing the child I used to be. When I was pregnant
the first time I saw Sandra's quote, something like, be the mother of
your child, not the child of your mother.. ? have I got it right? It
made a huge impression on me.-=-
I had to look a bit, but here it is, from "Zen Everything":
Instead of being my mother's child, I am my children's mother.
The line following it, in that writing is:
My mother did the best she could, I suppose. I need to do the best I
can do.
http://sandradodd.com/zeneverything
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I always hated CIO. Love the links.
In the 80's before I ever had kids I was volunteering at a university hospital. One day I held a baby that didn't cry. Both of the parents of the baby were in the hospital dealing with AIDS and weren't able to provide the care the baby needed. The nurses and volunteers held the baby when they could, but it wasn't enough. The baby had stopped crying from lack of proper response to his cries. He usually was in a room by himself. He was held when people could not when he needed or asked for it.? I believe he was HIV positive.......The reason he was in a room by himself in the hospital. ? I always think about this with CIO. You could get a baby that doesn't cry because it never gets a response. I find that very sad and I've always thought of that baby when I hear people suggesting CIO. A very deprived environment could create a baby that doesn't cry. Is that really what CIO advocates are going for. I think it's very sad. If you don't get the really deprived environment then you are just getting increased crying. Y
Yes, let's outlaw CIO
Meg
-----Original Message-----
From: clara_bellar <claramont@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2009 12:31 am
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: interesting article on co-sleeping and nursery school anxiety
. My dream is to make CIO illegal!
Blessings,
Clara
h
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In the 80's before I ever had kids I was volunteering at a university hospital. One day I held a baby that didn't cry. Both of the parents of the baby were in the hospital dealing with AIDS and weren't able to provide the care the baby needed. The nurses and volunteers held the baby when they could, but it wasn't enough. The baby had stopped crying from lack of proper response to his cries. He usually was in a room by himself. He was held when people could not when he needed or asked for it.? I believe he was HIV positive.......The reason he was in a room by himself in the hospital. ? I always think about this with CIO. You could get a baby that doesn't cry because it never gets a response. I find that very sad and I've always thought of that baby when I hear people suggesting CIO. A very deprived environment could create a baby that doesn't cry. Is that really what CIO advocates are going for. I think it's very sad. If you don't get the really deprived environment then you are just getting increased crying. Y
Yes, let's outlaw CIO
Meg
-----Original Message-----
From: clara_bellar <claramont@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tue, Jul 14, 2009 12:31 am
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: interesting article on co-sleeping and nursery school anxiety
. My dream is to make CIO illegal!
Blessings,
Clara
h
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Yes, let's outlaw CIO-=-
What would that law look like exactly?
Seriously.
You can spank a baby legally in the U.S. How would they make a law
against letting one cry?
For purposes of this list, let's talk about what will help
unschoolers, and please don't use abbreviations that will need to be
explained.
For this list, I would like to outlaw "CIO" and "TCS" and "RU" and such.
English, please.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
What would that law look like exactly?
Seriously.
You can spank a baby legally in the U.S. How would they make a law
against letting one cry?
For purposes of this list, let's talk about what will help
unschoolers, and please don't use abbreviations that will need to be
explained.
For this list, I would like to outlaw "CIO" and "TCS" and "RU" and such.
English, please.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ed Wendell
It took me a while at first, with the first reference to CIO, to figure out the acronym.
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shawn & Amanda Tisch
Hello, All! My name's Amanda. My family and I have just started our
journey towards "radical unschooling" in the past month or so.
Beginning with the saying yes or some form of yes and going from there.
I have been homeschooling my 6 year old daughter since birth, tho, literally workbooks and 'forced' learning reading at 4 and all
(eclectic-not with a set curriculum). I initially read about unschooling
when I first discovered homeschooling and dismissed it as not for us.
Recently, tho, I have been drawn to it and know it IS the we should
have done it from the beginning. ;)
I recently joined this group and have been lurking...figured it was time for an intro. I look forward to 'gleaming' more helpful info from all you in the future :)
Thanks,
Amanda
Mom to Katelynn-6
http://joyfullyandmindfullyliving.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
journey towards "radical unschooling" in the past month or so.
Beginning with the saying yes or some form of yes and going from there.
I have been homeschooling my 6 year old daughter since birth, tho, literally workbooks and 'forced' learning reading at 4 and all
(eclectic-not with a set curriculum). I initially read about unschooling
when I first discovered homeschooling and dismissed it as not for us.
Recently, tho, I have been drawn to it and know it IS the we should
have done it from the beginning. ;)
I recently joined this group and have been lurking...figured it was time for an intro. I look forward to 'gleaming' more helpful info from all you in the future :)
Thanks,
Amanda
Mom to Katelynn-6
http://joyfullyandmindfullyliving.blogspot.com/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=- I look forward to 'gleaming' more helpful info from all you in the
future :)-=-
I love the shiny sparkliness of "gleaming," and I don't know whether
it was a pun for fun or a typo, but "gleaning" is a cool word and
it's worth considering in light of ....
...in the gleaming light of natural learning. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
future :)-=-
I love the shiny sparkliness of "gleaming," and I don't know whether
it was a pun for fun or a typo, but "gleaning" is a cool word and
it's worth considering in light of ....
...in the gleaming light of natural learning. :-)
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
I thought "CIO" was half of AFL-CIO at first. I thought I was on an
anti-labor list <g>
Allora (my favorite new Italian word, which basically means "then" or
"so" but can be used quite creatively) - back to unschooling:
I want to tell a story oft-told here, but this time it happened in our
home. My 14-year-old was, I thought, going to read and write early.
After all, Michelle printed her name clearly at 3 1/2 with no
prompting from me. Imagine my surprise when my expectations were
wrong, again and again.
She started reading around 9, was comprehending more difficult
material at 11, and started typing in earnest at 12. But writing? Ha!
About 3 months ago, it took her weeks to decide to print her name for
her passport (which I traced onto the application as she didn't feel
confident trying to get her words to fit the prescribed space). I sign
cards for her, fill out forms, whatever she needs.
I worried now and again that she might never write anything. That
maybe her name at 3 1/2 was it. She had written a few words here and
there, but not more than maybe 100 between then and now. When she was
10 or so, I bought an italic writing workbook and once when I had
fallen asleep beside her, she completed a couple of pages of letters
on her own, but never picked it up again. I asked once, then dropped
it. I've asked, now and then, if she wants to sign a card or present
and the answer was always no. Sometimes, I pushed a bit, but realized
that wasn't helping. I took heart from everything I had read and
witnessed in the unschooling community about this.
In the last couple of months, I started noticing scraps of paper in
her room with names of WoW, Pokemon or Digimon characters. Then, I was
away for a couple of weeks and came home to find she'd written a note
to her dad about when she planned to wake up the next day. A few days
ago, at her clay-sculpting table, she had a list of Neopets she wanted
to sculpt, their names, colors, and specific identifying marks. There
are more words on that paper than I think I've ever seen in her
handwriting for the past 11 years.
Her writing was printing, all in caps, but spelled correctly, legibly,
and included editing suggestions to herself (she spelled a word wrong,
corrected it, wrote "ignore that" above it, but wasn't happy with how
she formed the "g", so wrote another "g" above it with a mark to
insert it <g>).
I knew in my heart that she would write when she felt a need or saw a
reason to do it. I'm sure she'll write more when she wants to. I'm
glad I didn't force her to do it. I'm glad I saved our relationship by
stopping myself more often than not from annoying her about it.
Michelle types faster, and with better spelling when she types, than I
do. She said she uses two fingers at the most, because she's usually
typing while fighting a battle in World of Warcraft. She notices if
she misspells something and corrects it right then. She types, spells,
and writes sentences better than many adult players she raids with.
I'm the only one in the family that writes in cursive. Ross learned it
in school, but never took to it - he print/writes in his own
inimitable style. I think Michelle will find what works best for her,
too.
Robin B.
anti-labor list <g>
Allora (my favorite new Italian word, which basically means "then" or
"so" but can be used quite creatively) - back to unschooling:
I want to tell a story oft-told here, but this time it happened in our
home. My 14-year-old was, I thought, going to read and write early.
After all, Michelle printed her name clearly at 3 1/2 with no
prompting from me. Imagine my surprise when my expectations were
wrong, again and again.
She started reading around 9, was comprehending more difficult
material at 11, and started typing in earnest at 12. But writing? Ha!
About 3 months ago, it took her weeks to decide to print her name for
her passport (which I traced onto the application as she didn't feel
confident trying to get her words to fit the prescribed space). I sign
cards for her, fill out forms, whatever she needs.
I worried now and again that she might never write anything. That
maybe her name at 3 1/2 was it. She had written a few words here and
there, but not more than maybe 100 between then and now. When she was
10 or so, I bought an italic writing workbook and once when I had
fallen asleep beside her, she completed a couple of pages of letters
on her own, but never picked it up again. I asked once, then dropped
it. I've asked, now and then, if she wants to sign a card or present
and the answer was always no. Sometimes, I pushed a bit, but realized
that wasn't helping. I took heart from everything I had read and
witnessed in the unschooling community about this.
In the last couple of months, I started noticing scraps of paper in
her room with names of WoW, Pokemon or Digimon characters. Then, I was
away for a couple of weeks and came home to find she'd written a note
to her dad about when she planned to wake up the next day. A few days
ago, at her clay-sculpting table, she had a list of Neopets she wanted
to sculpt, their names, colors, and specific identifying marks. There
are more words on that paper than I think I've ever seen in her
handwriting for the past 11 years.
Her writing was printing, all in caps, but spelled correctly, legibly,
and included editing suggestions to herself (she spelled a word wrong,
corrected it, wrote "ignore that" above it, but wasn't happy with how
she formed the "g", so wrote another "g" above it with a mark to
insert it <g>).
I knew in my heart that she would write when she felt a need or saw a
reason to do it. I'm sure she'll write more when she wants to. I'm
glad I didn't force her to do it. I'm glad I saved our relationship by
stopping myself more often than not from annoying her about it.
Michelle types faster, and with better spelling when she types, than I
do. She said she uses two fingers at the most, because she's usually
typing while fighting a battle in World of Warcraft. She notices if
she misspells something and corrects it right then. She types, spells,
and writes sentences better than many adult players she raids with.
I'm the only one in the family that writes in cursive. Ross learned it
in school, but never took to it - he print/writes in his own
inimitable style. I think Michelle will find what works best for her,
too.
Robin B.
On Jul 15, 2009, at 2:51 AM, Ed Wendell wrote:
> It took me a while at first, with the first reference to CIO, to
> figure out the acronym.
>
> Lisa
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
sweetsweet0nes
>I tend to write many things in all caps and simply make the letter that should be capitalized larger than the rest. I had an architect friend who wrote in all caps, and all the writing on his blueprints were caps only. I also noticed that since my son has been in the Navy he writes mostly in caps.
> Her writing was printing, all in caps, but spelled correctly, legibly,
> and included editing suggestions to herself (she spelled a word wrong,
> corrected it, wrote "ignore that" above it, but wasn't happy with how
> she formed the "g", so wrote another "g" above it with a mark to
> insert it <g>).
>
I like it. :)
I love that she "edited" her work. My boyz do that too. It makes me smile when I see it.
-Kathryn
Sandra Dodd
-=-I tend to write many things in all caps and simply make the letter
that should be capitalized larger than the rest-=-
That sounds really good. Today I had to fill out a form and it said
to use all caps. I screwed up a couple of times, both times on the
second letter of a word. It would still be legible, but I was
somewhere on the cannot print/fails to follow instructions end of the
scale.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that should be capitalized larger than the rest-=-
That sounds really good. Today I had to fill out a form and it said
to use all caps. I screwed up a couple of times, both times on the
second letter of a word. It would still be legible, but I was
somewhere on the cannot print/fails to follow instructions end of the
scale.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]