unschoolING, for me; not unSCHOOL
Sandra Dodd
The first quote is from an e-mail I got today, and then there's my
response, and then my comments to this group.
------------------------------------------------
-=-till it was unschooling-it was just so much pleasure.
when schooling slowly creeped - the tension n friction also creeped
in!--
There you have it of your own discovery. It's not "school," it's
"schooling."
I think a school without a curriculum is better than a homeschool with
lessons at the kitchen table.
------------------------------------------------
I have said this before, but I want to say it large and clearly. It
seems time.
One reason I'm not anti-school is that school has potential. There
are alternative schools. Some kids do better in school than at home
because they clash with their parents, but can manage to get along
great with some of the teachers or the other students or both.
I care more about emotional safety than I do about unschooling.
I see unschooling as a fast track to emotional safety and healing, so
I help people unschool,
but I'm not doing that because I hate school. I don't hate school.
If I were in charge of eliminating options in the world (somehow,
magically, or in an emergency situation; fantasy/hypotheticals here),
the first to go would be fundamentalist Christian punitive
homeschoolers who feed their kids a pack of Bible-based reconstructed
(speaking of fantasy) nonsense, and tell them God told them to
homeschool so that the United States can be returned to its theocratic
roots, and that the devil is living and working through mainstream
science, magazines, television, public schools and humanist
unschoolers. I'm just barely joking here. I'm smiling, but every
word is real.
I think it's not the school building and the bus and the cafeteria and
the books that are harmful. It's certainly not the music program or
the well-stocked art room or the theatre department with working stage
amenities. It's not the school library. It's the shaming and force-
marching through reading chapters and answering questions without
talking. It's being pressed to read one book while another more
interesting book is to lie untouched. It's memorizing and reciting
things that aren't even true, and being punished for questioning them.
Those bad parts of schooling are worse with school-at-home families
than they are in school. At least with school one could conceivably
file a complaint or the parents could ask for a meeting with the
principal or counsellor or teacher. With Christian school at home,
all appeals have been cut off by "honor thy father and thy mother,"
who claim to be doing the direct will of God. That's that. If you
argue, you too are working with and by the devil who creates reality
shows and R-rated movies. (I pretty much like school better than I
like reality shows, too, to remain clear here. If they would call
them game shows instead of "reality," I wouldn't bristle so much.)
Because what I care about is children having options and parents being
supportive and compassionate, I was able to write
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
which got me removed as an unpaid columnist for a California
homeschooling newsletter years ago.
There are those among unschoolers and homeschoolers whose primary
focus is politics rather than family. I don't really want to support
them, either. They assume all homeschoolers hate the government and
want schools to be dismantled. I think schools should be there for
when those families' kids can't stand the parents paying more
attention to political diatribe than their own children.
Schooling isn't as good as natural learning.
There's my summary.
Sandra
response, and then my comments to this group.
------------------------------------------------
-=-till it was unschooling-it was just so much pleasure.
when schooling slowly creeped - the tension n friction also creeped
in!--
There you have it of your own discovery. It's not "school," it's
"schooling."
I think a school without a curriculum is better than a homeschool with
lessons at the kitchen table.
------------------------------------------------
I have said this before, but I want to say it large and clearly. It
seems time.
One reason I'm not anti-school is that school has potential. There
are alternative schools. Some kids do better in school than at home
because they clash with their parents, but can manage to get along
great with some of the teachers or the other students or both.
I care more about emotional safety than I do about unschooling.
I see unschooling as a fast track to emotional safety and healing, so
I help people unschool,
but I'm not doing that because I hate school. I don't hate school.
If I were in charge of eliminating options in the world (somehow,
magically, or in an emergency situation; fantasy/hypotheticals here),
the first to go would be fundamentalist Christian punitive
homeschoolers who feed their kids a pack of Bible-based reconstructed
(speaking of fantasy) nonsense, and tell them God told them to
homeschool so that the United States can be returned to its theocratic
roots, and that the devil is living and working through mainstream
science, magazines, television, public schools and humanist
unschoolers. I'm just barely joking here. I'm smiling, but every
word is real.
I think it's not the school building and the bus and the cafeteria and
the books that are harmful. It's certainly not the music program or
the well-stocked art room or the theatre department with working stage
amenities. It's not the school library. It's the shaming and force-
marching through reading chapters and answering questions without
talking. It's being pressed to read one book while another more
interesting book is to lie untouched. It's memorizing and reciting
things that aren't even true, and being punished for questioning them.
Those bad parts of schooling are worse with school-at-home families
than they are in school. At least with school one could conceivably
file a complaint or the parents could ask for a meeting with the
principal or counsellor or teacher. With Christian school at home,
all appeals have been cut off by "honor thy father and thy mother,"
who claim to be doing the direct will of God. That's that. If you
argue, you too are working with and by the devil who creates reality
shows and R-rated movies. (I pretty much like school better than I
like reality shows, too, to remain clear here. If they would call
them game shows instead of "reality," I wouldn't bristle so much.)
Because what I care about is children having options and parents being
supportive and compassionate, I was able to write
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
which got me removed as an unpaid columnist for a California
homeschooling newsletter years ago.
There are those among unschoolers and homeschoolers whose primary
focus is politics rather than family. I don't really want to support
them, either. They assume all homeschoolers hate the government and
want schools to be dismantled. I think schools should be there for
when those families' kids can't stand the parents paying more
attention to political diatribe than their own children.
Schooling isn't as good as natural learning.
There's my summary.
Sandra
Jenny C
>What I find most interesting with Chamille, who's never been to school,
> One reason I'm not anti-school is that school has potential. There
> are alternative schools. Some kids do better in school than at home
> because they clash with their parents, but can manage to get along
> great with some of the teachers or the other students or both.
>
> I care more about emotional safety than I do about unschooling.
> I see unschooling as a fast track to emotional safety and healing, so
> I help people unschool,
> but I'm not doing that because I hate school. I don't hate school.
is that her main concerns with potentially going to school, are all
social. She's not so sure she wants to be around that many strangers
all day. She's not sure she wants to be around adults who assume it's
their job to tell her what to do. She's not sure that she can follow
all the school rules and still be true to herself and her principles.
The homework, the seat work, the "education" that happens at school are
all things that she has no problem with whatsoever. She says, she might
find some of it tedious, but not nearly as bothersome as being forced
into social situations with people she doesn't want to be around.
It's the shaming and force-
> marching through reading chapters and answering questions withoutThis is exactly my issue with school too. It's the clear lack of
> talking. It's being pressed to read one book while another more
> interesting book is to lie untouched. It's memorizing and reciting
> things that aren't even true, and being punished for questioning them.
choices and the hand picked ideas presented as absolutes.
> There are those among unschoolers and homeschoolers whose primaryThe whole reason I started homeschooling to begin with, was all about
> focus is politics rather than family.
politics! As I went along, though, it became more about learning and
relationships. I was able to let go of the political part of it, mostly
because, once it stopped having a hold on our lives, it ceased to be a
problem for me. When I made the choice to homeschool, it was a choice
to NOT send her to school, and over the years it's become more about how
awesome it is to be at home doing fun and interesting things.
I do have my political beliefs about compulsory schooling and
homeschooling laws and such, and I do write my lawmakers, and have gone
to the state capitol to support homeschool freedom bills, but it's a
very very small part of my life, and one that doesn't really overflow
into the lives of my children. If they were interested in politics that
might be a cool thing to share with them. Chamille did write a letter
once to a politician about GMO foods. She'd seen me write letters to
politicians before, so she knew it could be done and she felt pretty
strongly about it, so she wrote it and sent it. That is the absolute
extent of her political interest thus far, except for various updates on
issues that she really cares about, which I relay to her as I hear about
them.
I come from a family that was waaaay into political discourse, so that's
a little hard to shake from the way I view the world. When I visit
family, that is a core subject that is discussed, anything political is
fair game. The second big topic is art and music, so at least it's a
little balanced, even if politics enter into discussion of art and
music.
Lyla Wolfenstein
>What I find most interesting with Chamille, who's never been to school,
is that her main concerns with potentially going to school, are all
social. She's not so sure she wants to be around that many strangers
all day. She's not sure she wants to be around adults who assume it's
their job to tell her what to do. She's not sure that she can follow
all the school rules and still be true to herself and her principles.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
that is exactly what the biggest problems were for my kids when in school - and for me too.
i was a "good" student but the pain associated with the peer relationships in school was the biggest issue for me in school - and for my daughter. for my son, who is more introverted, being around people all day at all was too much forr him - and make it people to whom he is not attached or connected, and the compulsory elements of the education part of school, and it was just a recipe for misery for him.
but the social stuff alone is enough to make school a really negative environment for lots of kids, learning (or not learning) aside.
for the social reasons, i personally would *not* prefer an alternative school with no curriculum over a curriculum at the dining table...i just don't think it's healthy emotionally for young kids to be in that setting with so many other peers and unconnected adults. i know there are exceptions - schools that do manage to create really cohesive, trusted communities - but my kids were never in any standard school and still none of the schools they experienced managed to realize their goals for community and connection.
lyla
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-for the social reasons, i personally would *not* prefer an
alternative school with no curriculum over a curriculum at the dining
table.-=-
After your children didn't want to do any more school work at the
table, they might rather be anywhere than home, including a setting
with many peers and unconnected adults.
It's not healthy emotionally for children to be told what to do (and
when and how) about something as senseless as phonics worksheets or
multiplication drills or the kid-version-history of something two
thousand miles away when they might live in a town that's older and
cooler than whatever the state wants them to pass a test about.
It's not healthy emotionally for children not to have access to other
adults if they might like to.
If there's no recourse to what the parents are trying to make kids do,
it's not anything remotely like unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alternative school with no curriculum over a curriculum at the dining
table.-=-
After your children didn't want to do any more school work at the
table, they might rather be anywhere than home, including a setting
with many peers and unconnected adults.
It's not healthy emotionally for children to be told what to do (and
when and how) about something as senseless as phonics worksheets or
multiplication drills or the kid-version-history of something two
thousand miles away when they might live in a town that's older and
cooler than whatever the state wants them to pass a test about.
It's not healthy emotionally for children not to have access to other
adults if they might like to.
If there's no recourse to what the parents are trying to make kids do,
it's not anything remotely like unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
-=-for the social reasons, i personally would *not* prefer an
alternative school with no curriculum over a curriculum at the dining
table.-=-
After your children didn't want to do any more school work at the
table, they might rather be anywhere than home, including a setting
with many peers and unconnected adults.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
yes of course i agree with that - especially if they hadn't experienced school and it was in contrast to that scenario at home. and to be clear - we *don't* do schoolwork at the table!! (or anywhere else!) i still think the emotional pain from the social issues at school may last longer/be more profound for some kids than the emotional pain from disturbed/destroyed natural learning.
i do agree that if the school at home scenario is severe enough to impede kids access to other adults and offer no recourse, then that sounds pretty harmful as well.
Lyla
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
alternative school with no curriculum over a curriculum at the dining
table.-=-
After your children didn't want to do any more school work at the
table, they might rather be anywhere than home, including a setting
with many peers and unconnected adults.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
yes of course i agree with that - especially if they hadn't experienced school and it was in contrast to that scenario at home. and to be clear - we *don't* do schoolwork at the table!! (or anywhere else!) i still think the emotional pain from the social issues at school may last longer/be more profound for some kids than the emotional pain from disturbed/destroyed natural learning.
i do agree that if the school at home scenario is severe enough to impede kids access to other adults and offer no recourse, then that sounds pretty harmful as well.
Lyla
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/30/2009 11:01 AM, Lyla Wolfenstein wrote:
phone calls and emails from people who are having awful times with
homeschooling. These aren't from happy unschoolers, they are from
miserable parents who can't understand why their children don't just "go
along" with the schooling the parents are imposing. The kids resist -
they resist actively (and are punished repeatedly), but they more often
resist by "dragging their feet." One mom told me, "I've cut back and cut
back the amount of work I ask of her. I'm down to asking her to do two
math problems per day. She could do them in about 5 minutes, at most. I
know she knows how to do them. But she'll sit at the table and cry for
two hours before she finally does them (in about 2 minutes)." THIS is
far worse than anything most children will experience in school just
because it IS the mother imposing it. Mothers should not be in the
position of torturing their own children. Children should not be in the
position of being tortured by their own (loving) mothers.
-pam
> yes of course i agree with that - especially if they hadn't experienced school and it was in contrast to that scenario at home. and to be clear - we*don't* do schoolwork at the table!! (or anywhere else!) i still think the emotional pain from the social issues at school may last longer/be more profound for some kids than the emotional pain from disturbed/destroyed natural learning.The pain from family issues will most likely be worse. I get personal
>
phone calls and emails from people who are having awful times with
homeschooling. These aren't from happy unschoolers, they are from
miserable parents who can't understand why their children don't just "go
along" with the schooling the parents are imposing. The kids resist -
they resist actively (and are punished repeatedly), but they more often
resist by "dragging their feet." One mom told me, "I've cut back and cut
back the amount of work I ask of her. I'm down to asking her to do two
math problems per day. She could do them in about 5 minutes, at most. I
know she knows how to do them. But she'll sit at the table and cry for
two hours before she finally does them (in about 2 minutes)." THIS is
far worse than anything most children will experience in school just
because it IS the mother imposing it. Mothers should not be in the
position of torturing their own children. Children should not be in the
position of being tortured by their own (loving) mothers.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-THIS is
far worse than anything most children will experience in school just
because it IS the mother imposing it.-=-
No kid can cry for two hours in a math class; it only lasts 55 minutes
or less.
Any kid who has had something to cry about should be able to go to her
mother for comfort and sympathy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
far worse than anything most children will experience in school just
because it IS the mother imposing it.-=-
No kid can cry for two hours in a math class; it only lasts 55 minutes
or less.
Any kid who has had something to cry about should be able to go to her
mother for comfort and sympathy.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-i still think the emotional pain from the social issues at school
may last longer/be more profound for some kids than the emotional pain
from disturbed/destroyed natural learning.-=-
If the pain from social issues at school had primarily to do with
children having no choice about being in school, then let's look at
that: a child was in a place without an option.
If the pain of school at home has primarily to do with children having
no choice about being at that table, doing that lesson, ditto and ditto.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
may last longer/be more profound for some kids than the emotional pain
from disturbed/destroyed natural learning.-=-
If the pain from social issues at school had primarily to do with
children having no choice about being in school, then let's look at
that: a child was in a place without an option.
If the pain of school at home has primarily to do with children having
no choice about being at that table, doing that lesson, ditto and ditto.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]