Pam Tellew

<<<If I recall correctly, Kuhn's _The Structure of Scientific
Revolutions_ is all about that,
about scientists/thinkers being invested in
certain belief systems, and how that affects
their abilities to think and to do research,
and to evaluate the research findings of
colleagues. And so, progress is very, very
incremental. Great big, new, different ideas
are just too difficult to accept. >>>
Yep, that's Kuhn. And I think it does have a lot to do with unschooling.

So Kuhn talks about "normal science," which is incremental, but also
scientific revolutions, which happen in big leaps when there get to
be too many inconsistencies in a theory. Most of the scientists are
trying to patch up the holes in a theory, say for example, the sun
revolving around the earth.

But the scientific revolutionaries look at it with a different eye
and propose a new theory that works with everything including the
holes. They say, aha! the earth revolves around the sun. The old
timers sometimes can't accept or even see the new way of thinking,
so Copernicus winds up imprisoned.

But, even though there are hangers-on to the old theories,
revolutions in science do come about with a major and fairly sudden
paradigm shift. (Kuhn coined the term "paradigm shift.") The new
theory just makes too much sense. After the shift, people can't
believe in an earth centered universe anymore.

Sometimes I feel that we unschoolers are the leading edge of a
paradigm shift. At least it's nice to think so! You know how it is
when you meet people so stuck in the school mode of thinking that
they can't even see it when you explain that you don't use a
curriculum? I think of them as stuck in an old paradigm. Sometimes,
they can shift when you show them the contradictions, but way too
often they try to patch up the holes in their theories about learning
with more discipline and longer school days.

Pam



The theory has been really important in helping my husband understand
the reactions he's gotten to his research.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> Sometimes I feel that we unschoolers are the leading edge of a
> paradigm shift. At least it's nice to think so!

That's how I feel too! It's time for one of those shifts! It's not a
new idea. School's the new idea, the new experiment in social order.
When school wasn't compulsory, people still managed to learn and live.

>You know how it is
> when you meet people so stuck in the school mode of thinking that
> they can't even see it when you explain that you don't use a
> curriculum? I think of them as stuck in an old paradigm. Sometimes,
> they can shift when you show them the contradictions, but way too
> often they try to patch up the holes in their theories about learning
> with more discipline and longer school days.


Or sometimes they don't want to question it at all, no patching up holes
or examining contradictions, just a simple belief in the way things are
because that is how it was when they were a kid and how it was when
their parents were kids. It's far enough in the generation chain, that
school's accepted as IT, the way of getting and imparting knowledge. To
consider otherwise is crazy, right?

I've heard parents say things like, "School isn't the best place, but I
went and got through it, so my kids should be able to too". Nothing
like settling for mediocre for your children, simply because it's the
"normal" thing to do!

I've been thinking about "YES" a lot lately, how empowering it is to
hear that word and live that word. I keep thinking how schools don't
embody that kind of empowerment, how dangerous it would be if they did.
Schools keep things controlled and orderly. When I look at how my kids
learn, and even myself, it's not controlled and orderly. That kind of
environment would stifle learning, and in fact does, in classrooms
everyday.

It's such a huge idea to open up your world to saying "yes" and allowing
for that kind of freedom of exploration of the world, instead of saying
"no" and shutting the door to ideas and things, that could be very
expansive to thought and learning. I was thinking of shutting doors
figuratively, but schools actually do it for real, they shut doors and
windows, so in school, it's both real and figuratively. My mind gets
claustrophobic just thinking about it!

Sandra Dodd

-=-But, even though there are hangers-on to the old theories,
revolutions in science do come about with a major and fairly sudden
paradigm shift. (Kuhn coined the term "paradigm shift.") The new
theory just makes too much sense. After the shift, people can't
believe in an earth centered universe anymore.-=-

An SCA friend of mine, grown, childless, was going to teach his first
physics course and having talked with me lots of times about
alternative education, he asked me to come and take the class, and
critique him, but also to see whether I wouldn't understand physics
better if he had a chance to explain it to me.

I had taken a physics course in the early 1970's from a guy who used
to DO things--he rode in on a bicycle-wheel cart, propelled by a fire
extinguisher one day. He had one of those birds that dips over and
comes back up, like they sell little ones of, but his was about four
feet high.

So I went to my friend's physics class at the university, and I was
planning to go for a semester, but after two weeks I couldn't stand
anymore. He enjoyed physics, himself, but for us he was reciting what
other people had recited to him. We had to agree to these "simple
examples" or proof of physical "laws," and I was arguing from the
beginning (not in class, but on the side with him by e-mail). A
bullet fired straight up will hit the ground going as fast as when it
was fired from the gun?
That didn't make sense to me. A row of numbers as "proof" didn't make
it make any more sense. A rocket returning to earth doesn't hit the
ocean with the same force that it left the atmosphere.
He figured I was hopeless. I figured physics was beyond me lame
everyday logic.

Then the mythbusters TV show came along and took my side and said the
physics number
proof was wrong. So what people have been paying other people to
teach them and give them physics degrees about was a myth? And they
claimed to believe it and consider the "proof" as proof, like the
emperor's new clothes?

Another question in that physics class had to do with something
(water, probably) in a container, under certain conditions, and what
would happen if it was cooled or heated or something, and I said
"What's the container made of?" And he just looked at me. That one
was in class. What the container was made of wasn't part of the
"equation." What!? In what universe? Is it steel? Glass?
Plastic? Ceramic? So he wasn't undertanding that I thought it
mattered what the container was. He said "I don't see why it matters."

I was stunned, but figured, still, it was my misunderstanding and not
his. I said "Is it God's perfect container?" Yes, he said. God's
perfect container.

So this was THEORETICAL. IF there were a container that didn't affect
the process in any way whatsoever, then...
But there isn't one.

(to be continued in another long e-mail)

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

I had already pulled three magazine pages out to quote here, while I
was reading in the bed last night, and woke up and found this from Pam
Tellew:

-=-Sometimes I feel that we unschoolers are the leading edge of a
paradigm shift. At least it's nice to think so! You know how it is
when you meet people so stuck in the school mode of thinking that
they can't even see it when you explain that you don't use a
curriculum? I think of them as stuck in an old paradigm. Sometimes,
they can shift when you show them the contradictions, but way too
often they try to patch up the holes in their theories about learning
with more discipline and longer school days.-=-

I was reading a month-old issue of People Magazine. Because of the
recession, they've started having pages on having a great life without
spending much money. That's good!

Samantha Brown of The Travel Channel (I don't get cable, so I'm
quoting; I have no idea about her) had suggestions on how to have a
great vacation in your own town:

Check in to a hotel. You won't feel like you're on vacation if you
have to do laundry and wash dirty dishes, so book a room somewhere.
Avoid your usual places. Get your coffee at a different cafe, eat at
a new ethnic joint, go for a walk in an unfamiliar park. The goal is
to "discover hidden gems."
Check tourist sites for festivals, poetry readings, music performances
and outdoor movie screenings--stuff you might otherwise be oblivious to.

For years haven't I and others on this list been saying "go to a
different store; eat where you've never eaten"? Drive different ways
when you travel. When people have needed to reconnect with a child,
I've said do an overnight trip to another town, stay in a motel, do
something just the two of you.

So now it's more mainstream advice, even for people without kids. :-)

Two articles talked about school, in passing, in ways that assumed no
options. A kid who used to be on TV shows and movies disappeared at
the age of 18, two years ago. The family had lived in southern
California, but the parents had taken him back to Washington State to
finish high school, and the mom said he was "...heartbroken. But he
understood that we needed to go home."

Now he's dead or gone or run away, but the family "NEEDED" to take him
away from Burbank because Burbank high school wouldn't let him
transfer credits from wherever-in-Washington unless he enrolled full
time.

HOW did high school become more important than well-paying full time
employment?

In an article about Chris Pine who played Captain Kirk in the new star
trek movie, it says
"Pine graduated from U.C. Berkeley with an English degree in 2002 and
then worked as a restaurant server before landing his breakout role in
2004's The Princess Diaries 2."

That paragraph was headed "He's got brains too."
Were brains proven by graduating with an English degree?
Was an English degree helpul in working as a restaurant server?
He's an actor. Neither the English degree nor the working in a
restaurant was the point of the article, but that was offered as proof
he was smart.

Then there was one I didn't save, about an autistic boy whose parents
discovered he loved horses and started talking after he was around
horses.
The mom mentioned school MANY times in the article, and he's just
little, like six maybe. But at some point they took him to Mongolia
or somewhere to live around horses and Shamans. So the parents could
afford to move to China? And when they were there, he became much
more communicative. It was like a miracle. Now he's back in school.

There's no proof that just getting older helped him and the horses and
shamanistic healings were incidental. Maybe it was just being with
his mom, doing something SO PROFOUNDLY INTERESTING as riding horses
that triggered him to speak. Maybe they should just be with him a lot
at their own house and not send him to school.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

And I left one out.

I was in my room, with the magazine pages on the bed, reading e-mail
and watching CBS Sunday morning.


They re-ran part of an interview they did with Quincy Jones. He said
when he was 16 he on a bus to go on tour with Lionel Hampton, playing
trumpet, and the bandleader's wife came on and said "What is this boy
doing here? Go back to school." So she sent him home, and four years
later they called him back.

He was about to go on tour with great musicians, professionally, but
was sent home because he was young.



Sandra

Jenny C

>
> HOW did high school become more important than well-paying full time
> employment?

Especially since it's touted as THE means to that end. Hey, if you
could skip all the middle man, why not do so? It seems more and more
that school is the means and the end, in and of itself. It sure felt
like the end for me, when I graduated from high school. It finally felt
like the end to all that boring drudgery, time to actually live my life.

> There's no proof that just getting older helped him and the horses and
> shamanistic healings were incidental. Maybe it was just being with
> his mom, doing something SO PROFOUNDLY INTERESTING as riding horses
> that triggered him to speak. Maybe they should just be with him a lot
> at their own house and not send him to school.


That's what I find so profoundly frustrating! The idea that school is
the be all end all of life. There is no questioning, by most people, as
to it's actual validity. I'm sure that school will take the credit for
helping that kid be able to talk and do all the stuff that he's likely
to do anyway, and then blame the kid and the parents for all the damage
the schools do to him.

Jenny C

> They re-ran part of an interview they did with Quincy Jones. He said
> when he was 16 he on a bus to go on tour with Lionel Hampton, playing
> trumpet, and the bandleader's wife came on and said "What is this boy
> doing here? Go back to school." So she sent him home, and four years
> later they called him back.
>


They could've had an exceptional young person with tons of drive and
energy, willing to work hard to be there. They blew it big time on
that, they could've hired him cheap or free too, not that I think teens
should be taken advantage of in this way, but they are more willing to
do things for the sake of adventure rather than monetary reward.

That's what being young is about, in so many ways, gaining experience
without needing to pay bills and support oneself. I want to be able to
give my kids that kind of experience, to explore the world as they
choose, without having to worry about food and a roof over their head!

We are moving out of our house in the next month or so, whenever we find
a suitable address. Right now we live in Beaverton OR, and about 3
miles away we can have a Portland address. The advantage of that, is
that IF Chamille chooses, she can do a dual enrollment program and get
cosmetology credit without us having to pay out of pocket. We need to
be in a different school district. She may choose not to, since she's
not keen on going to school at all, and we may choose to pay out of
pocket anyway. We still want the option, so we are moving. She may
even choose not to do any of it, but at this point, she's very much
wanting to go that direction, eventually, not tomorrow, but sooner than
later.

We've never moved to a location for a school. We've always moved for
other reasons, this will be a first!

Linda Knauff

>>Then there was one I didn't save, about an autistic boy whose parents
discovered he loved horses and started talking after he was around
horses.
The mom mentioned school MANY times in the article, and he's just
little, like six maybe. But at some point they took him to Mongolia
or somewhere to live around horses and Shamans. So the parents could
afford to move to China? And when they were there, he became much
more communicative. It was like a miracle. Now he's back in school.

There's no proof that just getting older helped him and the horses and
shamanistic healings were incidental. Maybe it was just being with
his mom, doing something SO PROFOUNDLY INTERESTING as riding horses
that triggered him to speak. Maybe they should just be with him a lot
at their own house and not send him to school.<<



http://abcnews.go.com/Health/AutismNews/Story?id=7354280&page=1

I believe you are referring to Rowan Isaacson in the above story. His parents, according to this article, came back from Mongolia and set up an equine therapy ranch and "homeschool" for children with disabilities. I love that the title of this article includes "encourage exploration." Am not sure what a homeschool for a group of children means exactly. But at least we know the parents have taken a step away from traditional school for their son and are offering support to others who want to do the same. Perhaps it is even more like unschooling that schooling at home. Might be interesting to find out...am not sure how one totally unschools a child with lower functioning autism, though, and grapple myself with this idea because the child is not motivated to learn in the same way that a typical child is and sometimes is quite content NOT to explore his/her surroundings.

Sometimes, parents of children with autism, because their lives can be so "abnormal," want, even more than the average parent, their child to experience the "normalcy" of going to school. Maybe it is less about the quality of education and more about simply wanting the choice to do what everyone else is doing. It's one thing to have a typically functioning child and choose to educate him/her differently, and quite another to have your choices limited because your child is not welcome. Also, the unfounded fear that taking a child out of school might limit him socially is doubly hard for a parent of a child with autism to come to terms with because the child is already suffering socially. This is perhaps why the Isaacson's have invited other homeschoolers to join them at their home--to be sure Rowan has other children with whom to interact.

You're so right in that there is no proof that anything these people have done has helped their son mature. But at least they're adventurously experimenting by offering him the chance to have fun in the real world with real (potentially scary) animals rather than locking him in an office with a therapist. It sounds like they've also questioned the effects of "regular" school on their son.

The Isaacson's are likely doing their best they can with what they know/have in some very difficult circumstances.

Linda

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=The Isaacson's are likely doing their best they can with what they
know/have in some very difficult circumstances. -=-

No doubt. I wasn't trying to say they weren't.
In keeping with the topic, though, their concern in the article I read
seemed to be heavily school-related. And it seemed obvious to me
that the biggest difference between being home and sending him to
school and being in China was that they were WITH HIM, together, not
sending him to school.

Maybe horses were the magic key at first, but that doesn't mean horses
are the continuing best possible thing necessarily.

Nowhere in the article did anyone suggest that he might've become more
verbal even if his parents couldn't afford to go across the world, and
even if he hadn't gotten to ride a horse. There was no indication
that anyone involved (even professionals asked to comment) had
considered it might be the special time and attention and being with
his parents.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

warblwarbl2000

--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:

> I've been thinking about "YES" a lot lately, how empowering it is to
> hear that word and live that word. I keep thinking how schools don't
> embody that kind of empowerment, how dangerous it would be if they did.

It's true that school is a fairly new idea, but in a way, the old paradigm that we're knocking holes in isn't school, it's the paradigm of "NO." And, yeah, that's really dangerous. :)

Pam

Jenny C

> > I've been thinking about "YES" a lot lately, how empowering it is to
> > hear that word and live that word. I keep thinking how schools don't
> > embody that kind of empowerment, how dangerous it would be if they
did.
>
> It's true that school is a fairly new idea, but in a way, the old
paradigm that we're knocking holes in isn't school, it's the paradigm of
"NO." And, yeah, that's really dangerous. :)
>


As long as kids are disempowered, they may not consider that they really
don't have to go to school. The fact that schools are compulsory, is
one big fat "NO" you can't do what you want, you must be in this
building doing what we tell you to do. Without that, kids would likely
choose to do other things on any particular day. They might just say
"yes", I'd like to sleep in today, or "yes", I think I'd like to spend
the day skating at the skate park. That kind of empowerment is
dangerous to the existence of schools.

The very notion that our culture raises kids without choices, seems
truly dangerous to keeping freedom alive. It is, in many ways, the
antithesis of free thinking and free exploration. All the wonderful
inventions and ideas didn't come about because of compulsory schooling.
If anyone can think of inventions and ideas that came about with
compulsory schooling, speak up, because, I really am not thinking of
any. I suppose unschooling came about as a reaction against it.

Sandra Dodd

-=That kind of empowerment is dangerous to the existence of schools.-=-

As much as I don't like to have discussions involving school or making
school out to be the enemy, that statement is true.

Having been a member at one time of the National Education
Association, and of the American Federation of Teachers, I know they
will defend their salaries and their professions. So that's a reason
to be wary, and also to say "Schools are fine for some, but..."

Try not to make it an us vs. them. They're already doing that. We
should try to sidestep those discussions when we can.

-=The very notion that our culture raises kids without choices, seems
truly dangerous to keeping freedom alive. It is, in many ways, the
antithesis of free thinking and free exploration. All the wonderful
inventions and ideas didn't come about because of compulsory schooling.
If anyone can think of inventions and ideas that came about with
compulsory schooling, speak up, because, I really am not thinking of
any. I suppose unschooling came about as a reaction against it.-=-

By "Wonderful inventions" I don't guess you mean the left-to-right
reading machines used by early reading specialists (and long since
abandoned, I hope). I love some of the school bus-stop shelters
built by people's dads here and there out in the country. Bloomers!
Bloomers for women's P.E. classes! (Maybe they didn't come out of
school, but were adopted by schools, though.... I wore some of the
last of the bloomers, in P.E. in the last 60's. Dark blue snap-up one-
piece things.

If you were thinking about things like light bulbs and automobiles and
computers and telephones and hot tubs and bicycles and stuff.... I
can't help you.

I took some of what was in this discussion before and put it here--the
part about the books. http://unschooling.blogspot.com/2009/06/books-about-change-in-thought.html
It was confusing and difficult to un-format, so I left out all names
when I realized I might be combining posts. I hope you don't mind,
those who were quoted without citation. It does have a link for
people to come and read it directly.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> -=That kind of empowerment is dangerous to the existence of
schools.-=-
>
> As much as I don't like to have discussions involving school or making
> school out to be the enemy, that statement is true.
>
> Having been a member at one time of the National Education
> Association, and of the American Federation of Teachers, I know they
> will defend their salaries and their professions. So that's a reason
> to be wary, and also to say "Schools are fine for some, but..."
>
> Try not to make it an us vs. them. They're already doing that. We
> should try to sidestep those discussions when we can.


Yes, well, you recently put out the school choice article in the mix of
ideas swirling in my head, even though you didn't link it, I went and
reread it! That combined with the fact that I'm rereading The Teenage
Liberation Handbook, and having loads of discussions about schools and
their inherent worth, or not, here at our house, has caused me to be
thinking along these lines lately.

So, I won't go down the anti-school discussion, I promise! Especially
since Chamille is really considering actually going for a dual
enrollment program. Schools can be useful tools sometimes. It really
is about the ability to choose!

Robin Bentley

> All the wonderful
> inventions and ideas didn't come about because of compulsory
> schooling.
> If anyone can think of inventions and ideas that came about with
> compulsory schooling, speak up, because, I really am not thinking of
> any.

I can think of a few that might not be classified as wonderful...

Smoking lounges. In those days, many businesses allowed employees to
smoke in the workplace. Teachers weren't allowed to, except in the
staff room. Designated smoking areas? Outside for students! Guidance
counselors? The original life coaches <g>.

>
> By "Wonderful inventions" I don't guess you mean the left-to-right
> reading machines used by early reading specialists (and long since
> abandoned, I hope). I love some of the school bus-stop shelters
> built by people's dads here and there out in the country.

School buses themselves!

> Bloomers!
> Bloomers for women's P.E. classes! (Maybe they didn't come out of
> school, but were adopted by schools, though.... I wore some of the
> last of the bloomers, in P.E. in the last 60's. Dark blue snap-up
> one-
> piece things.

Mine were button-up green with white buttons (our school colors were
green & white). Had a belt that tied in the back, too.

>
All of these things, though, seemed designed to maintain order and/or
conformity.

Robin B.
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-
Mine were button-up green with white buttons (our school colors were
green & white). Had a belt that tied in the back, too.

>
All of these things, though, seemed designed to maintain order and/or
conformity.

Robin B.-=-

I SO want to see Robin in a green and white gymsuit with a bow in back!

Heck, I'd love to have a photo of me in that one I had. I was a size
10 but the requirement was to order a size larger so they would be
baggy and we wouldn't grow out of them. My friend Cyndi was a
cheerleader and she was in charge of taking the orders for the
uniforms for P.E. I still remember the little act she put on when she
discovered with horror that the one she had ordered for herself was
actually a size too SMALL. How embarrassing. She wore it all year,
though, and didn't consider trading out with someone just one size
off. <g> Meanwhile, the PE teacher was wearing skin-tight bike-
shorts kind of things and a low-cut dance top, sort of. We had no
option but the baggy blue cotton uniforms. Standing next to Cyndi,
posing in her tight one.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

Bloomers!
> Bloomers for women's P.E. classes! (Maybe they didn't come out of
> school, but were adopted by schools, though.... I wore some of the
> last of the bloomers, in P.E. in the last 60's. Dark blue snap-up one-
> piece things.>>>>

Er...sorry Sandra. I got you beat. Bloomers (matching the tunic) were still
part of the PE uniform at my high school when I graduated in 1979.

The rule for the tunic hem length was "8-10 inches above the ground when
kneeling".

For the school uniform it was "6-8 inches above the ground when kneeling".

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd

-=-...you must be in this
building doing what we tell you to do. Without that, kids would likely
choose to do other things on any particular day. They might just say
"yes", I'd like to sleep in today, or "yes", I think I'd like to spend
the day skating at the skate park. That kind of empowerment is
dangerous to the existence of schools.-=- (Jenny)


Someone sent this quote today:

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you. If
you really make them think, they'll hate you. (Don Marquis)

There is a great deal of school-surround that involves creating the
impression that parents, teachers and students are being thoughtful
and making decisions. They are given options and they weigh them with
gravity, and feel good about their choices. The choices are something
like military or college, or which college, or what major. If
military, then what branch of the service, or will one go to college
and join an officers' training program and THEN go to the military?
It seems like a world of choices if you nose is on the recruiting
posters and if your choice that day had been to stay in class or go to
the recruiting session in the gym.

As to unschooling and the quote though, "If you make people think
they're thinking, they'll love you" reminds me of a sales room at a
large homeschooling conference, with all the vendors and different
curriculae. It reminds me of discussion lists that tell people they
can unschool any way they want to! There are no rules, and there are
as many ways to unschool as there are unschoolers!

And that latter part, again... unschooling discussions where people
will actually say "Did you think this through at all yourself, or are
you just reciting what someone else said?" Or, "You wrote it and
posted it; why did you say "lazy" and "taught" and "problem"?

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meryl Ranzer

> HOW did high school become more important than well-paying full time
> employment?

Or College...see below:


My younger brother Matt is 22 years old.
He never liked school, although he was very bright.
It was a constant struggle for my dad and Matt's mom, (dad's second
wife).
They live in NJ, and at some point the TV show "Ed" was filming in a
bowling alley close to their home.
Matt checked it, and because of that, acting became his passion.
For someone that was considered lazy because he did not do his school
work, he became very ambitious.
He went to the set and made friends with the crew, which led him to
get agents names.
He started taking dancing and singing lessons, and joined his school's
drama club as well as a local theatre troupe.
Matt got the lead in a number of his high school plays.
I saw him, he was good, it was his passion.

In Matt's senior year he got an internship at one of Broadway's top PR
firms for the summer through a connection with a neighbor.
He made the most of it, he loved it, pure pleasure.
Matt decided not to go to college, and the firm offered him a position
as an assistant agent.
Not bad for an 18 year old who did not do well in school.
My dad was ok with the idea, but Matt's mom freaked out, although
she's over it now that he is a success.
Matt ended up handling some of the agencies biggest accounts including
Disney, the youngest agent on Broadway.
He is a great networker, and is well known in the Broadway community,
where he has an excellent reputation.
He now works for another big agency that courted him and made him an
associate.

Matt has followed his passion.
All of his theatre friend's are jealous, because they went to college,
but he is so further along in his career than any of them.
He also started his own production company and he has some very
interesting things in the works.
I use him as an example when people say you need an education to be a
success.

My husband and I are starting a business, and we have made Matt a
partner because of his business savvy.
All in all, not bad for a kid who did not like school!

Meryl




Meryl Ranzer
mranzer@...





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kelly_sturman

When Amelia Bloomer popularized them
in the early-mid 19th century America,
they were very liberating for women,
much more comfortable and functional
than the costumes ladies of that era
were expected to wear.

My Amelia, who loves to study history
through the lens of clothing/fashion,
reminded me of this. She is 10, and
loves the strong Amelias of history,
of whom Earheart was only one. Bloomer
often gets forgotten, but she popularized
pants for women. It seemed a revolutionary
idea at the time.

Kelly Sturman

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> Bloomers! <snip> (Maybe they didn't come
out of school, but were adopted by schools, though....

Robin Bentley

>
>
> I SO want to see Robin in a green and white gymsuit with a bow in
> back!
>
Alas, there were no photos taken of me in 1969 by yearbook staff (or
any other year, for that matter). I was rather an unknown to them - I
was not an athlete, cheerleader, student council person, school clown
or budding drag queen - but I had my admirers <g>. I might be able to
find a pic of some fellow bloomer-wearers, though.

Robin B.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cameron Parham

The whole narrow focus of science is just one of the many casualties to which Twain referred, I think, when he said "Education is not as sudden as a massacre, but it is more deadly."  A great quote in a book I am reading right now, so I don't know its original source. Cameron




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jenbgosh

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> HOW did high school become more important than well-paying full time
> employment?
>

I recently read on Yahoo of a young man who decided to play pro baseball instead of finishing high school. I believe he was going to take some junior college classes or something too. But the story was framed as "is this a mistake for him to forgo his education." What?? What in the world would be the advantage of a high school diploma versus playing pro ball and all the money and experiences that go along with that? That's how pervasive the school myth is.