Re: [AlwaysLearning] Physical appearance (was: a little more video..)
[email protected]
Interesting topic! I've been accused lately of "letting myself go"--by my husband, my sister, my mother, my best friend, even the last lady who cut my hair (over 8 months ago).
My terrible crime against humanity? I'm letting my hair go gray. I'm literally the only woman I know in my age bracket (mid-40s) who does not color her hair. Even my husband colors his beard regularly to hide the gray (which I find very sexy, but he thinks it makes him look old). We've actually had fights about my stubborn determination to age naturally.
It's not that I don't care about my looks. It's just that I think I look fine the way I am. I live in jeans and T-shirts, wear very little makeup, and when I look in the mirror I think my gray streaks are pretty cool . I like my crow's feet too. I find my aging self fascinating....it's like I'm conducting a science experime nt on my own head, LOL. My look at this stage of my life is "aging hippie", which suits my personality very well.
What I wasn't expecting was the animosity from my friends and family. (Even strangers sometimes--the clerk at CVS eyed my hair and said to me , "Looks like it's time for a dye job." Can you imagine??) It's almost as tho ugh my choice to embrace my looks as they are is a personal affront to everyone else. I fully expect them to stage an intervention at any moment.
Having said that, I am never self-deprecating in any way. (By the way, Sandra, I didn't think your comment came off that way.) It's not really in my nature to put myself down, but more than that, I am always cognizant of the example I am setting for my teenage daughter (and all the young girls I work with). It's important to me to show my daughter that beauty is about so much more than physical appearance, and that it's okay to feel confident and present your true face to the world at every age. So few people do any more.
It's just not for the faint of heart.:)
Denise
www.smartingusup.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My terrible crime against humanity? I'm letting my hair go gray. I'm literally the only woman I know in my age bracket (mid-40s) who does not color her hair. Even my husband colors his beard regularly to hide the gray (which I find very sexy, but he thinks it makes him look old). We've actually had fights about my stubborn determination to age naturally.
It's not that I don't care about my looks. It's just that I think I look fine the way I am. I live in jeans and T-shirts, wear very little makeup, and when I look in the mirror I think my gray streaks are pretty cool . I like my crow's feet too. I find my aging self fascinating....it's like I'm conducting a science experime nt on my own head, LOL. My look at this stage of my life is "aging hippie", which suits my personality very well.
What I wasn't expecting was the animosity from my friends and family. (Even strangers sometimes--the clerk at CVS eyed my hair and said to me , "Looks like it's time for a dye job." Can you imagine??) It's almost as tho ugh my choice to embrace my looks as they are is a personal affront to everyone else. I fully expect them to stage an intervention at any moment.
Having said that, I am never self-deprecating in any way. (By the way, Sandra, I didn't think your comment came off that way.) It's not really in my nature to put myself down, but more than that, I am always cognizant of the example I am setting for my teenage daughter (and all the young girls I work with). It's important to me to show my daughter that beauty is about so much more than physical appearance, and that it's okay to feel confident and present your true face to the world at every age. So few people do any more.
It's just not for the faint of heart.:)
Denise
www.smartingusup.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anne Mills
Denise
I like what you say.
Feeling strong about not self-depreciating seems to be one of the smartest thing one could do for her child.
I caught myself scrutinizing my daughter's round shape more than I would have done for my son.
This comes from media brainwashing, not my up-bringing, since my mother valued intelligence over looks and kindness over financial success, to put it shortly.Now I have to be more about celebrating the incredible intelligence and grace in my daughter's attitudes, rather than body-perfect image...How do you achieve that flawlessly though ?
Anne
To: [email protected]
From: pellegrina@...
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:50:45 +0000
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Physical appearance (was: a little more video..)
Interesting topic! I've been accused lately of "letting myself go"--by my husband, my sister, my mother, my best friend, even the last lady who cut my hair (over 8 months ago).
My terrible crime against humanity? I'm letting my hair go gray. I'm literally the only woman I know in my age bracket (mid-40s) who does not color her hair. Even my husband colors his beard regularly to hide the gray (which I find very sexy, but he thinks it makes him look old). We've actually had fights about my stubborn determination to age naturally.
It's not that I don't care about my looks. It's just that I think I look fine the way I am. I live in jeans and T-shirts, wear very little makeup, and when I look in the mirror I think my gray streaks are pretty cool . I like my crow's feet too. I find my aging self fascinating....it's like I'm conducting a science experime nt on my own head, LOL. My look at this stage of my life is "aging hippie", which suits my personality very well.
What I wasn't expecting was the animosity from my friends and family. (Even strangers sometimes--the clerk at CVS eyed my hair and said to me , "Looks like it's time for a dye job." Can you imagine??) It's almost as tho ugh my choice to embrace my looks as they are is a personal affront to everyone else. I fully expect them to stage an intervention at any moment.
Having said that, I am never self-deprecating in any way. (By the way, Sandra, I didn't think your comment came off that way.) It's not really in my nature to put myself down, but more than that, I am always cognizant of the example I am setting for my teenage daughter (and all the young girls I work with). It's important to me to show my daughter that beauty is about so much more than physical appearance, and that it's okay to feel confident and present your true face to the world at every age. So few people do any more.
It's just not for the faint of heart.:)
Denise
www.smartingusup.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_________________________________________________________________
Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger ! Téléchargez-le maintenant !
http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I like what you say.
Feeling strong about not self-depreciating seems to be one of the smartest thing one could do for her child.
I caught myself scrutinizing my daughter's round shape more than I would have done for my son.
This comes from media brainwashing, not my up-bringing, since my mother valued intelligence over looks and kindness over financial success, to put it shortly.Now I have to be more about celebrating the incredible intelligence and grace in my daughter's attitudes, rather than body-perfect image...How do you achieve that flawlessly though ?
Anne
To: [email protected]
From: pellegrina@...
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:50:45 +0000
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Physical appearance (was: a little more video..)
Interesting topic! I've been accused lately of "letting myself go"--by my husband, my sister, my mother, my best friend, even the last lady who cut my hair (over 8 months ago).
My terrible crime against humanity? I'm letting my hair go gray. I'm literally the only woman I know in my age bracket (mid-40s) who does not color her hair. Even my husband colors his beard regularly to hide the gray (which I find very sexy, but he thinks it makes him look old). We've actually had fights about my stubborn determination to age naturally.
It's not that I don't care about my looks. It's just that I think I look fine the way I am. I live in jeans and T-shirts, wear very little makeup, and when I look in the mirror I think my gray streaks are pretty cool . I like my crow's feet too. I find my aging self fascinating....it's like I'm conducting a science experime nt on my own head, LOL. My look at this stage of my life is "aging hippie", which suits my personality very well.
What I wasn't expecting was the animosity from my friends and family. (Even strangers sometimes--the clerk at CVS eyed my hair and said to me , "Looks like it's time for a dye job." Can you imagine??) It's almost as tho ugh my choice to embrace my looks as they are is a personal affront to everyone else. I fully expect them to stage an intervention at any moment.
Having said that, I am never self-deprecating in any way. (By the way, Sandra, I didn't think your comment came off that way.) It's not really in my nature to put myself down, but more than that, I am always cognizant of the example I am setting for my teenage daughter (and all the young girls I work with). It's important to me to show my daughter that beauty is about so much more than physical appearance, and that it's okay to feel confident and present your true face to the world at every age. So few people do any more.
It's just not for the faint of heart.:)
Denise
www.smartingusup.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_________________________________________________________________
Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger ! Téléchargez-le maintenant !
http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tom Hall
Anne Mills wrote:
Awareness is the key. As long as you stay aware, you will act out of
that awareness, rather than your old habits. Trust that your awareness
of your desire to change your attitudes about beauty will change how you
feel and think about it. Trust that your awareness of your daughter's
incredible intelligence and grace will allow you to celebrate that with her.
Tom
> Now I have to be more about celebrating the incredibleThe same way you achieve flawless beauty... you don't.
> intelligence and grace in my daughter's attitudes, rather than
> body-perfect image...How do you achieve that flawlessly though ?
>
> Anne
>
Awareness is the key. As long as you stay aware, you will act out of
that awareness, rather than your old habits. Trust that your awareness
of your desire to change your attitudes about beauty will change how you
feel and think about it. Trust that your awareness of your daughter's
incredible intelligence and grace will allow you to celebrate that with her.
Tom
Brad Holcomb
> What I wasn't expecting was the animosity from my friends and family.I can easily imagine that, because people rarely want you to do what feels good to you, and instead want you to do what feels good to *them*.
> (Even strangers sometimes--the clerk at CVS eyed my hair and said to me
> , "Looks like it's time for a dye job." Can you imagine??)
The more I deschool, the more clearly I can see this, even with close friends and family who feel threatened by change.
-=b.
Sandra Dodd
-=-It's almost as tho ugh my choice to embrace my looks as they are is
a personal affront to everyone else. I fully expect them to stage an
intervention at any moment. -=-
I didn't do hormone therapy for menopause, either. I figure it's just
one more stage in a life in which I've questioned people interfering
with nature and instinct and hormones. Why fight time and aging? I
learned to feel the hot flash coming on, know what it was, ride it
through, and not make as small a deal of it as I could. I slept with
a towel on my pillow for night sweats. Not a big deal. Not worth
being an experiment for the medical community about. I'll be the
control group; no problem! <g>
My kids nursed, my boys were uncut, we embraced natural learning!
Why would I start interfering with nature now? (I did have myself
surgically prevented from further pregnancy, though; tubal ligation,
after Holly.)
-=-the clerk at CVS eyed my hair and said to me , "Looks like it's
time for a dye job." Can you imagine??)-=-
WTF!??
Seriously, I cannot believe that. I can't imagine anyone in New
Mexico saying that to anyone (unless they were hairdressers who had
done the person's hair many times before, maybe).
I honestly can't imagine very well at all!
I think the grey skunk streak when aging dyed hair is growing out is
way worse than all-grey hair. So once that dying starts, it has to be
maintained, I guess, unless one wants to start again with half-inch-
long grey hair.
Holly's natural color has returned after years of us not knowing what
her hair would look like if she left it alone. I'm fine either way
with Holly's hair, and everyone else's hair, and mine! <g>
Keith used to be blond(er) so the grey hair isn't so different from
his other color. Mine was dark, so it shows more, but the silver also
finally went as long as my hair. When it only went six inches or so,
when I would put it up in a ponytail it looked like a brown fake
ponytail on a grey-haired person. <bwg>
Most of my friends have let their hair go grey when it did; many of
them have long hair, too.
I noticed a white part on a red-headed friend the other day. She was
always strawberry blond. Still, mostly. I hadn't thought about her
being old enough to lose that distinctive characteristic.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
a personal affront to everyone else. I fully expect them to stage an
intervention at any moment. -=-
I didn't do hormone therapy for menopause, either. I figure it's just
one more stage in a life in which I've questioned people interfering
with nature and instinct and hormones. Why fight time and aging? I
learned to feel the hot flash coming on, know what it was, ride it
through, and not make as small a deal of it as I could. I slept with
a towel on my pillow for night sweats. Not a big deal. Not worth
being an experiment for the medical community about. I'll be the
control group; no problem! <g>
My kids nursed, my boys were uncut, we embraced natural learning!
Why would I start interfering with nature now? (I did have myself
surgically prevented from further pregnancy, though; tubal ligation,
after Holly.)
-=-the clerk at CVS eyed my hair and said to me , "Looks like it's
time for a dye job." Can you imagine??)-=-
WTF!??
Seriously, I cannot believe that. I can't imagine anyone in New
Mexico saying that to anyone (unless they were hairdressers who had
done the person's hair many times before, maybe).
I honestly can't imagine very well at all!
I think the grey skunk streak when aging dyed hair is growing out is
way worse than all-grey hair. So once that dying starts, it has to be
maintained, I guess, unless one wants to start again with half-inch-
long grey hair.
Holly's natural color has returned after years of us not knowing what
her hair would look like if she left it alone. I'm fine either way
with Holly's hair, and everyone else's hair, and mine! <g>
Keith used to be blond(er) so the grey hair isn't so different from
his other color. Mine was dark, so it shows more, but the silver also
finally went as long as my hair. When it only went six inches or so,
when I would put it up in a ponytail it looked like a brown fake
ponytail on a grey-haired person. <bwg>
Most of my friends have let their hair go grey when it did; many of
them have long hair, too.
I noticed a white part on a red-headed friend the other day. She was
always strawberry blond. Still, mostly. I hadn't thought about her
being old enough to lose that distinctive characteristic.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
The Tom-response to "how...flawlessly?" is great, and so I'm repeating
it just in case anyone missed it:
-=-The same way you achieve flawless beauty... you don't.
-=-Awareness is the key. As long as you stay aware, you will act out of
that awareness, rather than your old habits. Trust that your awareness
of your desire to change your attitudes about beauty will change how you
feel and think about it. Trust that your awareness of your daughter's
incredible intelligence and grace will allow you to celebrate that
with her.
-=-Tom-=-
IF it's okay not to be perfect physically, it should be just as
acceptable not to be perfect emotionally.
Her comes where I'm in "yeah, but..." land.
But I'm not trying to be perfect physically. I AM trying to achieve
optimal efficiency emotionally.
Some people are the other way. They don't lose sleep over having
snapped at the hairdresser or snatching sale clothes out of the
lighter grasp of others. But they might become physically ill if they
discovered they had a zit when they were going to meet someone.
I'm thinking that for purposes of unschooling, the emotional and
interpersonal facility is pretty important.
Even flawless athletic health isn't a guarantee. My friend Charlie
Winckless has a famous sister who was an olympic rower and won
national races (I don't have rowing-lingofacility). She has tested
positive for a condition that has their mother entirely disabled.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article6523332.ece
(Perhaps odd that her brother is in Albuquerque hanging around with
people like me, but there it is--the way of the world.)
Perfection isn't a good goal, but a touch of momentary "couldn't have
been better" can be great! I think it should be accepted as the
uncontrolled "good hair day" or "the other guy was a little slow that
day" that it was, because if people take full credit for everything
they do without acknowledging other factors it's not good for their
souls or their futures or their relationships.
IF I had spoken words that touched hundreds, on a video that Lee made,
Lee still made the video. And if I'm telling people what Joyce said,
that's me and Joyce! (and Lee).
If what Richard Prystowsky and I said one day at a conference is still
listened to, that's because HSC hired a guy to tape it, and the guy
liked me, and the conference let me continue to sell those tapes after
their year was gone and they weren't even offering the really old
recordings anymore. AND because of the internet archives and Lee and
Lauren knowing about them and being interested in what I was doing,
and wanting to help me.
Few things are done by one person in the absence of any other help or
support. Humility.
Humility helps with looks and spelling and housekeeping and
storytelling and just everything.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it just in case anyone missed it:
-=-The same way you achieve flawless beauty... you don't.
-=-Awareness is the key. As long as you stay aware, you will act out of
that awareness, rather than your old habits. Trust that your awareness
of your desire to change your attitudes about beauty will change how you
feel and think about it. Trust that your awareness of your daughter's
incredible intelligence and grace will allow you to celebrate that
with her.
-=-Tom-=-
IF it's okay not to be perfect physically, it should be just as
acceptable not to be perfect emotionally.
Her comes where I'm in "yeah, but..." land.
But I'm not trying to be perfect physically. I AM trying to achieve
optimal efficiency emotionally.
Some people are the other way. They don't lose sleep over having
snapped at the hairdresser or snatching sale clothes out of the
lighter grasp of others. But they might become physically ill if they
discovered they had a zit when they were going to meet someone.
I'm thinking that for purposes of unschooling, the emotional and
interpersonal facility is pretty important.
Even flawless athletic health isn't a guarantee. My friend Charlie
Winckless has a famous sister who was an olympic rower and won
national races (I don't have rowing-lingofacility). She has tested
positive for a condition that has their mother entirely disabled.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/more_sport/article6523332.ece
(Perhaps odd that her brother is in Albuquerque hanging around with
people like me, but there it is--the way of the world.)
Perfection isn't a good goal, but a touch of momentary "couldn't have
been better" can be great! I think it should be accepted as the
uncontrolled "good hair day" or "the other guy was a little slow that
day" that it was, because if people take full credit for everything
they do without acknowledging other factors it's not good for their
souls or their futures or their relationships.
IF I had spoken words that touched hundreds, on a video that Lee made,
Lee still made the video. And if I'm telling people what Joyce said,
that's me and Joyce! (and Lee).
If what Richard Prystowsky and I said one day at a conference is still
listened to, that's because HSC hired a guy to tape it, and the guy
liked me, and the conference let me continue to sell those tapes after
their year was gone and they weren't even offering the really old
recordings anymore. AND because of the internet archives and Lee and
Lauren knowing about them and being interested in what I was doing,
and wanting to help me.
Few things are done by one person in the absence of any other help or
support. Humility.
Humility helps with looks and spelling and housekeeping and
storytelling and just everything.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anne Mills
Pretty powerful, Tom, awareness and desire to change old habits.
I can feel some freedom getting inside me just knowing that i REALLY really want that for her.
Anne
To: [email protected]
From: TOM.HALL@...
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:36:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Physical appearance
Anne Mills wrote:
Awareness is the key. As long as you stay aware, you will act out of
that awareness, rather than your old habits. Trust that your awareness
of your desire to change your attitudes about beauty will change how you
feel and think about it. Trust that your awareness of your daughter's
incredible intelligence and grace will allow you to celebrate that with her.
Tom
_________________________________________________________________
Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger ! Téléchargez-le maintenant !
http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I can feel some freedom getting inside me just knowing that i REALLY really want that for her.
Anne
To: [email protected]
From: TOM.HALL@...
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:36:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Physical appearance
Anne Mills wrote:
> Now I have to be more about celebrating the incredibleThe same way you achieve flawless beauty... you don't.
> intelligence and grace in my daughter's attitudes, rather than
> body-perfect image...How do you achieve that flawlessly though ?
>
> Anne
>
Awareness is the key. As long as you stay aware, you will act out of
that awareness, rather than your old habits. Trust that your awareness
of your desire to change your attitudes about beauty will change how you
feel and think about it. Trust that your awareness of your daughter's
incredible intelligence and grace will allow you to celebrate that with her.
Tom
_________________________________________________________________
Téléphonez gratuitement à tous vos proches avec Windows Live Messenger ! Téléchargez-le maintenant !
http://www.windowslive.fr/messenger/1.asp
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/25/2009 11:31:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Sandra@... writes:
<<<Holly's natural color has returned after years of us not knowing what
her hair would look like if she left it alone. I'm fine either way
with Holly's hair, and everyone else's hair, and mine! <g> >>>
I didn't dye my hair for years because I (and Dave) loved the color so
much, I was afraid it wouldn't grow back in the exact same color. It's changed
over the years, anyway and I did have highlights put in twice, but I'm
really waiting until I go gray. I'd *love* to experiment with hair color and
was hoping the boys would be wild and crazy enough to want to color their
hair. Wyl did, once, before he was 5 with Koolaide. The red didn't take very
well. They both have a supply of colored hair spray, but don't use it on
their *hair*. So, I'm waiting until I'm gray and then I'll try all the colors
(not at once. probably.) I've always thought would be cool to try.
Which reminds me, Storm wanted to spike his hair today-now that we're
home, we can do that! Off to spike...
Peace,
De
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
<<<Holly's natural color has returned after years of us not knowing what
her hair would look like if she left it alone. I'm fine either way
with Holly's hair, and everyone else's hair, and mine! <g> >>>
I didn't dye my hair for years because I (and Dave) loved the color so
much, I was afraid it wouldn't grow back in the exact same color. It's changed
over the years, anyway and I did have highlights put in twice, but I'm
really waiting until I go gray. I'd *love* to experiment with hair color and
was hoping the boys would be wild and crazy enough to want to color their
hair. Wyl did, once, before he was 5 with Koolaide. The red didn't take very
well. They both have a supply of colored hair spray, but don't use it on
their *hair*. So, I'm waiting until I'm gray and then I'll try all the colors
(not at once. probably.) I've always thought would be cool to try.
Which reminds me, Storm wanted to spike his hair today-now that we're
home, we can do that! Off to spike...
Peace,
De
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000005)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I've been hoping? I would have an opportunity to write this. It comes from the book Chaos by James Gleick that I'm finally getting around to reading after 20 years. I love this quote and think it's really true.
This is talking about? revolutionary new science but could refer to many things.
p38.?? To some the difficulty of communicating the new ideas and the ferocious resistance from traditional? quarters showed how revolutionary the new science was. Shallow ideas can be assimilated; ideas that require people to reorganize their picture of the world provoke hostility. A physicist at the Georgia Institute of Technology, Joseph Ford, started quoting Tolstoy: "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to othes, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives"
This really reminded me of the reaction of many to unschooling when I read it.
Meg
The more I deschool, the more clearly I can see this, even with close friends and family who feel threatened by change.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This is talking about? revolutionary new science but could refer to many things.
p38.?? To some the difficulty of communicating the new ideas and the ferocious resistance from traditional? quarters showed how revolutionary the new science was. Shallow ideas can be assimilated; ideas that require people to reorganize their picture of the world provoke hostility. A physicist at the Georgia Institute of Technology, Joseph Ford, started quoting Tolstoy: "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to othes, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives"
This really reminded me of the reaction of many to unschooling when I read it.
Meg
The more I deschool, the more clearly I can see this, even with close friends and family who feel threatened by change.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-...as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which
they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have
proudly taught to othes, and which they have woven, thread by thread,
into the fabric of their lives"-=-
That's part of the humility problem. If people are absolutely SURE
they're right, it's harder for them to consider change, or even to
make choices in that area of their life.
I've had friends want to change--not about unschooling, but socio-
politically about something or other, or morally, and the more they
stated their strong opinions in the past about what was stupid, and
what they would never do in a million years, the more trapped they
are by their own words and posturing.
I suppose it's the basis of "Never say never." Deciding in advance
what one will or won't do chops off half (or more) of their future
options.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have
proudly taught to othes, and which they have woven, thread by thread,
into the fabric of their lives"-=-
That's part of the humility problem. If people are absolutely SURE
they're right, it's harder for them to consider change, or even to
make choices in that area of their life.
I've had friends want to change--not about unschooling, but socio-
politically about something or other, or morally, and the more they
stated their strong opinions in the past about what was stupid, and
what they would never do in a million years, the more trapped they
are by their own words and posturing.
I suppose it's the basis of "Never say never." Deciding in advance
what one will or won't do chops off half (or more) of their future
options.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saturnfire16
--- In [email protected], pellegrina@... wrote:
Now I'm 22, and people usually think I'm 28-30. I don't know how much of that is my grey hair, and how much of it is the fact that I'm married, have two kids, have been to college, don't live near my parents, hold a job etc. I've actually shown my license to prove how *young* I am. Sometimes it bugs me because I figure that when I really am 30, people will think I'm 50! But maybe by then it will be all white like Storm from the X-men.
Being different is fun and interesting. It's really neat when someone can be different without even trying, because everyone else is trying so hard to be the same.
>I think that's beautiful! I've also often been told I should dye my hair. I found the first grey when I was 10, and by highschool it was very noticable. All my friends told me I should dye it, but said that I didn't grow butt-length hair just to have it fried by too many dye jobs.
> My terrible crime against humanity? I'm letting my hair go gray. I'm literally the only woman I know in my age bracket (mid-40s) who does not color her hair. Even my husband colors his beard regularly to hide the gray (which I find very sexy, but he thinks it makes him look old). We've actually had fights about my stubborn determination to age naturally.
>
Now I'm 22, and people usually think I'm 28-30. I don't know how much of that is my grey hair, and how much of it is the fact that I'm married, have two kids, have been to college, don't live near my parents, hold a job etc. I've actually shown my license to prove how *young* I am. Sometimes it bugs me because I figure that when I really am 30, people will think I'm 50! But maybe by then it will be all white like Storm from the X-men.
Being different is fun and interesting. It's really neat when someone can be different without even trying, because everyone else is trying so hard to be the same.
Anne Mills
i though it was so weird the talk on physical appearance and boom the king of pop/plastic surgery dies...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
Hair turbibg grey is a beautiful thing.
In the book Women who run with wolves, Clarissa Pinkola Estes talks about all the beauty in the odd bodies; theimportance of recognizing grace in its different forms.
It is very true !
Anne
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/
Hair turbibg grey is a beautiful thing.
In the book Women who run with wolves, Clarissa Pinkola Estes talks about all the beauty in the odd bodies; theimportance of recognizing grace in its different forms.
It is very true !
Anne
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Hair turbibg grey is a beautiful thing.
In the book Women who run with wolves, Clarissa Pinkola Estes talks
about all the beauty in the odd bodies; theimportance of recognizing
grace in its different forms.
It is very true !-=-
At the post office yesterday I almost took a picture of the whole room
but thought some people might not appreciate that. I myself was there
with dirty hair in an orange t-shirt and purple jeans. I hadn't
noticed until I got out into the car. <g> I wasn't expecting company.
I don't usually notice or think about dyed hair unless it's dayglo
pink or cellophane blue or something. But with this discussion in
mind, I have a report. Albuquerque, post office on the east side of
town, Thursday late morning.
Two people had dyed hair for certain. One was a woman who was
probably 70 or late 60's. Her hair was dyed a light brown. She was
dressed conservatively. One of the three postal clerks had her hair
dyed dark brown. Her face was wrinkly. Maybe she was my age or
older. No grey showing in the part. The other two clerks were male,
one balding, one greying.
Others were too young except for me and two other long-haired hippiesh
types. One man, hair to the middle of his back, balding and
greying. A woman, younger than I am maybe, so late 40's or early
50's, hair to the tops of her thighs, greying.
More people greying than dyed, in that snapshot moment.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
In the book Women who run with wolves, Clarissa Pinkola Estes talks
about all the beauty in the odd bodies; theimportance of recognizing
grace in its different forms.
It is very true !-=-
At the post office yesterday I almost took a picture of the whole room
but thought some people might not appreciate that. I myself was there
with dirty hair in an orange t-shirt and purple jeans. I hadn't
noticed until I got out into the car. <g> I wasn't expecting company.
I don't usually notice or think about dyed hair unless it's dayglo
pink or cellophane blue or something. But with this discussion in
mind, I have a report. Albuquerque, post office on the east side of
town, Thursday late morning.
Two people had dyed hair for certain. One was a woman who was
probably 70 or late 60's. Her hair was dyed a light brown. She was
dressed conservatively. One of the three postal clerks had her hair
dyed dark brown. Her face was wrinkly. Maybe she was my age or
older. No grey showing in the part. The other two clerks were male,
one balding, one greying.
Others were too young except for me and two other long-haired hippiesh
types. One man, hair to the middle of his back, balding and
greying. A woman, younger than I am maybe, so late 40's or early
50's, hair to the tops of her thighs, greying.
More people greying than dyed, in that snapshot moment.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-
I think that's beautiful! I've also often been told I should dye my
hair. I found the first grey when I was 10, and by highschool it was
very noticable. All my friends told me I should dye it, but said that
I didn't grow butt-length hair just to have it fried by too many dye
jobs. -=-
My dad's went grey when he was twenty or so. It was salt-and-pepper
when I knew him. I wanted that.
There was a woman in my anthropology class in college with hair like
that, and I was so jealous! She would braid it or put it in twisty
buns, and it always made patterns, like ice cream with chocolate syrup.
-=-Sometimes it bugs me because I figure that when I really am 30,
people will think I'm 50! But maybe by then it will be all white like
Storm from the X-men. =-
My younger sister used to be thrilled that she looked older than I
was, when we were teens. It stopped being thrilling when we were in
our 20's, and now it just pisses her off. <bwg>
-=-Being different is fun and interesting. It's really neat when
someone can be different without even trying, because everyone else is
trying so hard to be the same. -=-
And some try really hard to be different.
It's nice when people can accept themselves happily and not spend a
world of time and money and risk their health trying to be different.
It occurred to me that perhaps too much surgery could have been a
problem for Michael Jackson. I don't know the effects of tons of
surgery. I've had a broken leg, a broken ankle, three cesareans (sad;
I don't like to talk about that), a breast biopsy and a gall bladder
removal (laproscopic, where they didn't cut me wholly open). I don't
know how many blood vessels can be cut and grow back (or not) without
putting a strain on the circulatory system. Maybe all of them, but I
doubt it. So somewhere between all and none there must be a point at
which it's problematical.
Totally elective surgery isn't for prolonging life, except maybe in
those cases of suicidal thoughts about transgenderism or breast
problems (too big, deformed, mastectomy...).
When they were little, Marty and Kirby had seen a preview for a TV
show (Phil Donohue, I think) about children who wanted plastic
surgery. They asked me very excitedly in the car, "What's plastic
surgery?" I told them and they seemed very disappointed. I guess
they were wondering if it was something THEY should want to have
too! I forgot to watch the show the next day. We probably should've.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I think that's beautiful! I've also often been told I should dye my
hair. I found the first grey when I was 10, and by highschool it was
very noticable. All my friends told me I should dye it, but said that
I didn't grow butt-length hair just to have it fried by too many dye
jobs. -=-
My dad's went grey when he was twenty or so. It was salt-and-pepper
when I knew him. I wanted that.
There was a woman in my anthropology class in college with hair like
that, and I was so jealous! She would braid it or put it in twisty
buns, and it always made patterns, like ice cream with chocolate syrup.
-=-Sometimes it bugs me because I figure that when I really am 30,
people will think I'm 50! But maybe by then it will be all white like
Storm from the X-men. =-
My younger sister used to be thrilled that she looked older than I
was, when we were teens. It stopped being thrilling when we were in
our 20's, and now it just pisses her off. <bwg>
-=-Being different is fun and interesting. It's really neat when
someone can be different without even trying, because everyone else is
trying so hard to be the same. -=-
And some try really hard to be different.
It's nice when people can accept themselves happily and not spend a
world of time and money and risk their health trying to be different.
It occurred to me that perhaps too much surgery could have been a
problem for Michael Jackson. I don't know the effects of tons of
surgery. I've had a broken leg, a broken ankle, three cesareans (sad;
I don't like to talk about that), a breast biopsy and a gall bladder
removal (laproscopic, where they didn't cut me wholly open). I don't
know how many blood vessels can be cut and grow back (or not) without
putting a strain on the circulatory system. Maybe all of them, but I
doubt it. So somewhere between all and none there must be a point at
which it's problematical.
Totally elective surgery isn't for prolonging life, except maybe in
those cases of suicidal thoughts about transgenderism or breast
problems (too big, deformed, mastectomy...).
When they were little, Marty and Kirby had seen a preview for a TV
show (Phil Donohue, I think) about children who wanted plastic
surgery. They asked me very excitedly in the car, "What's plastic
surgery?" I told them and they seemed very disappointed. I guess
they were wondering if it was something THEY should want to have
too! I forgot to watch the show the next day. We probably should've.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kelly_sturman
If I recall correctly, Kuhn's _The Structure
of Scientific Revolutions_ is all about that,
about scientists/thinkers being invested in
certain belief systems, and how that affects
their abilities to think and to do research,
and to evaluate the research findings of
colleagues. And so, progress is very, very
incremental. Great big, new, different ideas
are just too difficult to accept.
It's hard to consider that the earth goes 'round
the sun if you are absolutely convinced the other way
around.
Michael Jackson: never recovered from an abusive
childhood. I imagine he saw his father in the mirror
when he looked at the face he was born with, which is
why he mutilated it. His plastic surgeons should have
their medical licenses pulled. They are not supposed
to operate on mentally unstable individuals.
Kelly Sturman
Joseph Ford, started quoting Tolstoy: "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to othes, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives"
of Scientific Revolutions_ is all about that,
about scientists/thinkers being invested in
certain belief systems, and how that affects
their abilities to think and to do research,
and to evaluate the research findings of
colleagues. And so, progress is very, very
incremental. Great big, new, different ideas
are just too difficult to accept.
It's hard to consider that the earth goes 'round
the sun if you are absolutely convinced the other way
around.
Michael Jackson: never recovered from an abusive
childhood. I imagine he saw his father in the mirror
when he looked at the face he was born with, which is
why he mutilated it. His plastic surgeons should have
their medical licenses pulled. They are not supposed
to operate on mentally unstable individuals.
Kelly Sturman
Joseph Ford, started quoting Tolstoy: "I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to othes, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives"
Brad Holcomb
>I haven't read that book, but it fits my view that science advances through
> If I recall correctly, Kuhn's _The Structure
> of Scientific Revolutions_ is all about that,
> about scientists/thinkers being invested in
> certain belief systems, and how that affects
> their abilities to think and to do research,
> and to evaluate the research findings of
> colleagues. And so, progress is very, very
> incremental. Great big, new, different ideas
> are just too difficult to accept.
attrition. Death. The old scientists defending their beliefs/worldview die
and new beliefs are allowed to sprout in the minds of younger scientists.
-=b.
[email protected]
If I recall correctly, Kuhn's _The Structure
of Scientific Revolutions_ is all about that,
about scientists/thinkers being invested in
certain belief systems, and how that affects
their abilities to think and to do research,
and to evaluate the research findings of
colleagues. And so, progress is very, very
incremental. Great big, new, different ideas
are just too difficult to accept.
It's hard to consider that the earth goes 'round
the sun if you are absolutely convinced the other way
around.
That sounds like an interesting book that would go along with what I am reading now Agnotology [The Making and Unmaking of ignorance] edited by Robert Proctor and Londa Schiebinger...What we don't know and why we don't know it. It's not one of those books about what you should have learned in school and didn't but more the control of information and the manipulation of information to create doubt and change history etc. It discusses military secrecy, Native American paleontology, female orgasm, global climate change, racial ignorance etc.
Just finished the section on the tobacco industry. I'm getting into the military stuff. The military had information that it withheld from the public that would have helped confirm the theories on plate tectonics. It took some years for that information to become available for researchers.?That was mentioned in? Kuhn's book?description? that I just found on Amazon. Guess Kuhn's book needs to be next in line for me to read.
I haven't read that book, but it fits my view that science advances through
attrition. Death. The old scientists defending their beliefs/worldview die
and new beliefs are allowed to sprout in the minds of younger scientists.
-=b.
I can see that being somewhat true, but as I read Agnotology I think it is even more complex than that. What areas get funding for research.... what is the monetarily favored areas to grow knowledge..... What falls out of fashion.....Who controls information.?I know some very complex knowledge of the people that lived before us is essentially lost. I'm think of some of the agricultural practices that worked very well in the Amazon mentioned in the book 1491:New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles Mann. Some of this knowledge is being rediscovered, but I'm betting a lot more has been lost. I'm not sure that? science?is always advancing. It seems as if we are always losing previously well know information as we learn the new.? Our brains can only hold so much knowledge/information but I think our collective brains only hold so much knowledge/information to.
By the way 1491 made the history I learned in school seem like some weird fabrication of reality?and I think Agnotology will explain some of that.
Meg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
of Scientific Revolutions_ is all about that,
about scientists/thinkers being invested in
certain belief systems, and how that affects
their abilities to think and to do research,
and to evaluate the research findings of
colleagues. And so, progress is very, very
incremental. Great big, new, different ideas
are just too difficult to accept.
It's hard to consider that the earth goes 'round
the sun if you are absolutely convinced the other way
around.
That sounds like an interesting book that would go along with what I am reading now Agnotology [The Making and Unmaking of ignorance] edited by Robert Proctor and Londa Schiebinger...What we don't know and why we don't know it. It's not one of those books about what you should have learned in school and didn't but more the control of information and the manipulation of information to create doubt and change history etc. It discusses military secrecy, Native American paleontology, female orgasm, global climate change, racial ignorance etc.
Just finished the section on the tobacco industry. I'm getting into the military stuff. The military had information that it withheld from the public that would have helped confirm the theories on plate tectonics. It took some years for that information to become available for researchers.?That was mentioned in? Kuhn's book?description? that I just found on Amazon. Guess Kuhn's book needs to be next in line for me to read.
I haven't read that book, but it fits my view that science advances through
attrition. Death. The old scientists defending their beliefs/worldview die
and new beliefs are allowed to sprout in the minds of younger scientists.
-=b.
I can see that being somewhat true, but as I read Agnotology I think it is even more complex than that. What areas get funding for research.... what is the monetarily favored areas to grow knowledge..... What falls out of fashion.....Who controls information.?I know some very complex knowledge of the people that lived before us is essentially lost. I'm think of some of the agricultural practices that worked very well in the Amazon mentioned in the book 1491:New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles Mann. Some of this knowledge is being rediscovered, but I'm betting a lot more has been lost. I'm not sure that? science?is always advancing. It seems as if we are always losing previously well know information as we learn the new.? Our brains can only hold so much knowledge/information but I think our collective brains only hold so much knowledge/information to.
By the way 1491 made the history I learned in school seem like some weird fabrication of reality?and I think Agnotology will explain some of that.
Meg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>hair. I found the first grey when I was 10, and by highschool it was
> I think that's beautiful! I've also often been told I should dye my
very noticable. All my friends told me I should dye it, but said that I
didn't grow butt-length hair just to have it fried by too many dye jobs.
>You could just go with it! If people believe you are much older than
> Now I'm 22, and people usually think I'm 28-30.
you are, they may think you have some miracle skin care routine. The
first time I met you, I didn't even notice the grey! I'm not sure
why... it just didn't stand out to me, but I remember noticing the last
time I saw you. I think it looks pretty cool!
If you look older, people may assume you are wiser too!
Ward Family
>If I recall correctly, Kuhn's _The Structureof Scientific Revolutions_ is all about that,
about scientists/thinkers being invested in
certain belief systems, and how that affects
their abilities to think and to do research,
and to evaluate the research findings of
colleagues. And so, progress is very, very
incremental. Great big, new, different ideas
are just too difficult to accept.>
Another book which explores this issue is "The Long Descent" by John Michael Greer. I am only up to the second chapter entitled "The Stories We Tell Ourselves." The book is actually about peak oil but in his discussion there are parallels to thinking about life and learning. His argument goes that you can become so focused on achieving immediate goals by familiar means (eg school and the qualifications treadmill) that you lose track of the wider context of priorities that made those goals and means meaningful in the first place. (eg living a fulfilling life.)
Julie Ward
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>>>His argument goes that you can become so focused on achievingimmediate goals by familiar means (eg school and the qualifications
treadmill) that you lose track of the wider context of priorities that
made those goals and means meaningful in the first place. (eg living a
fulfilling life.)>>>
Hey that embodies unschooling really well! The really cool thing about
it, is that once you start acknowledging the wider context of things,
going to school or getting qualifications becomes meaningful again,
because you have reasons for doing those things, other than just jumping
through those hoops simply because you believe you have to.
Sandra Dodd
-=Hey that embodies unschooling really well! The really cool thing about
it, is that once you start acknowledging the wider context of things,
going to school or getting qualifications becomes meaningful again,
because you have reasons for doing those things, other than just jumping
through those hoops simply because you believe you have to.-=-
This matches what Broc was saying when Lee Stranahan filmed him the
other day, that kids in school are set on a course of levels, but
unschoolers can either figure out how to bypass levels, or choose to
go level by level.
Wanting to do something and doing it is an entirely different "doing"
than NOT wanting to do it, and making a half-hearted show of kind of
doing just as little as you "have to" do to get to the next level,
barely. It's also different for go-getters who jump into a level with
an air of competitive joy and ACE that sucker in no time flat with
enough extra time to go to the parking lot and smoke dope and they get
an A, a whole page of them, and get to the next level WooHOOO! (Oh
wait. That was me in 10th grade...) If someone asks whether they
wanted to do that, the answer would be an eye blink and a 'What do you
mean?"
And about those videos. With trepidation, I announce one I haven't
seen yet.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/968679247/unschooling-the-movie/posts/463
Brenna was clear and awesome on camera. Holly was making me nervous
that day.
I'll go and watch it after I post this.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
it, is that once you start acknowledging the wider context of things,
going to school or getting qualifications becomes meaningful again,
because you have reasons for doing those things, other than just jumping
through those hoops simply because you believe you have to.-=-
This matches what Broc was saying when Lee Stranahan filmed him the
other day, that kids in school are set on a course of levels, but
unschoolers can either figure out how to bypass levels, or choose to
go level by level.
Wanting to do something and doing it is an entirely different "doing"
than NOT wanting to do it, and making a half-hearted show of kind of
doing just as little as you "have to" do to get to the next level,
barely. It's also different for go-getters who jump into a level with
an air of competitive joy and ACE that sucker in no time flat with
enough extra time to go to the parking lot and smoke dope and they get
an A, a whole page of them, and get to the next level WooHOOO! (Oh
wait. That was me in 10th grade...) If someone asks whether they
wanted to do that, the answer would be an eye blink and a 'What do you
mean?"
And about those videos. With trepidation, I announce one I haven't
seen yet.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/968679247/unschooling-the-movie/posts/463
Brenna was clear and awesome on camera. Holly was making me nervous
that day.
I'll go and watch it after I post this.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]