Lyla Wolfenstein

so sorry for the blank post - i have no idea what my computer did. what i
*meant* to say was:

pam - i love what you said below here so much and i am wondering if it's ok
if i quote you in a discussion thread about this, on facebook, and perhaps
in the future in similar discussions on other lists, etc.

you put my feeling, and my experiences both as a mother of a teen and as a
former teen, so succinctly. please let me know if that's ok?

thank

Lyla


>> Something that has rattled around in my head for years is the line,
>> "You're the parent, not their friend."
>>
>> I was just reading a news article and someone was quoted as saying:
>> ""Your kids don’t need a 40-year-old friend. They need a parent,"
>>
>> What a tragic dichotomy that one little line sets up!
>>
>> Every single time that line has ever entered my head, it was leading me
>> in the wrong direction. Every time.
>>
>> What is a friend? I'm not talking about the schoolmates teenagers go out
>> partying and drinking with. Not talking about the 5 year old kid your
>> child happens to play with at the park that day. I'm talking about real
>> friendship.
>>
>> 1 a*:* one attached to another by affection or esteem
>>
>> Knowing what I know now, with my kids grown, I strongly feel that that
>> that one line, which permeates parental consciousnesses, should be
>> quickly and actively contradicted and rooted out like a pernicious weed
>> every single time it sprouts up.
>>
>> Instead of "You're the parent, not their friend," substitute, "Be the
>> very very best friend to them you can possibly be."
>>
>> Do your kids need you to be their "40 year old friend?" YES! Children do
>> need to feel attached to their parents "by affection or esteem." What
>> better connection is there than by affection and esteem?
>>
>> AND, what's more, parents need their children's friendship, too. Some
>> people seem to think there is something wrong with parents "needing"
>> their children. They act like being mutually attached to each other
>> means children have not become independent enough and parents are being
>> a "burden to their children."
>>
>> A 40 year old friend isn't going to have the same relationship with a 5
>> year old as his/her 5 year old friends or 10 year old friends. And
>> parent-child friendships evolve over the years until they are,
>> eventually, adult-with-adult friendships.
>>
>> There is nothing wrong with wanting to be your child's friend. Do what
>> it takes to earn their friendship - be supportive and kind and honest
>> and trustworthy and caring and generous and loyal and fun and
>> interesting and interested in them and all the other things that good
>> friends are to each other. Be the best 40 year old friend you can be (or
>> whatever age you are).
>>
>> People use "I'm the parent, not a friend," as an excuse to be mean,
>> selfish, and lazy. Instead, be the adult in the friendship. Be mature.
>> You've BEEN a five-year-old and your child has not been a
>> forty-year-old, so you have an advantage in terms of long-term and wider
>> perspective. Use that advantage to be an even better friend. You know
>> how to be kinder and less self-centered and you know how beneficial it
>> is to put forth the effort.
>>
>> I can honestly say that my children and I are friends. I know they'd say
>> the same. I'm not trying to act like I'm 18 or 21 or 24 -- I am 57 years
>> old. They're having a "Halo" party at someone else's house tonight and
>> will stay up all night playing video games and I'm not going to go and
>> hang out with them all night and play Halo. I'm going to make a huge
>> platter of deviled eggs for them to take over there, but I'm going to
>> stay home and watch a movie with my husband and go to bed early enough
>> that I'll feel good tomorrow. I'm not 18 and I don't recover as quickly
>> as they do from a night with no sleep. I didn't go to the midnight
>> showing of the Terminator movie the other night, for the same reason.
>> But I was certainly invited and welcome.
>>
>> My kids are not spoiled brats because I've tried to be their friend.
>> They hold jobs, they manage money, they make good and responsible
>> decisions. We are very strongly "attached by affection and esteem."
>>
>> I wish I could wipe that expression out of everybody's minds and replace
>> it with "Be the best friend to your children that you can be."
>>
>> -pam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/22/2009 11:48 PM, Robyn L. Coburn wrote:
>>> My attitude continues to make the greatest difference to my happiness.
>>> Most
>>> of my needs are met in joyfully giving and being with my family. Those
>>> that
>>> are not met that way, are more able to be met when my daughter and
>>> husband
>>> are already happy and feeling generous. And if I am feeling like I need
>>> a
>>> break, I can take one in the space of a breath, a memory, a moment, a
>>> hug.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>

Pam Sorooshian

Of course - feel free!

-pam

Lyla Wolfenstein wrote:
> so sorry for the blank post - i have no idea what my computer did. what i
> *meant* to say was:
>
> pam - i love what you said below here so much and i am wondering if it's ok
> if i quote you in a discussion thread about this, on facebook, and perhaps
> in the future in similar discussions on other lists, etc.
>
> you put my feeling, and my experiences both as a mother of a teen and as a
> former teen, so succinctly. please let me know if that's ok?
>
> thank
>
> Lyla
>
>
>
>>> Something that has rattled around in my head for years is the line,
>>> "You're the parent, not their friend."
>>>
>>> I was just reading a news article and someone was quoted as saying:
>>> ""Your kids don’t need a 40-year-old friend. They need a parent,"
>>>
>>> What a tragic dichotomy that one little line sets up!
>>>
>>> Every single time that line has ever entered my head, it was leading me
>>> in the wrong direction. Every time.
>>>
>>> What is a friend? I'm not talking about the schoolmates teenagers go out
>>> partying and drinking with. Not talking about the 5 year old kid your
>>> child happens to play with at the park that day. I'm talking about real
>>> friendship.
>>>
>>> 1 a*:* one attached to another by affection or esteem
>>>
>>> Knowing what I know now, with my kids grown, I strongly feel that that
>>> that one line, which permeates parental consciousnesses, should be
>>> quickly and actively contradicted and rooted out like a pernicious weed
>>> every single time it sprouts up.
>>>
>>> Instead of "You're the parent, not their friend," substitute, "Be the
>>> very very best friend to them you can possibly be."
>>>
>>> Do your kids need you to be their "40 year old friend?" YES! Children do
>>> need to feel attached to their parents "by affection or esteem." What
>>> better connection is there than by affection and esteem?
>>>
>>> AND, what's more, parents need their children's friendship, too. Some
>>> people seem to think there is something wrong with parents "needing"
>>> their children. They act like being mutually attached to each other
>>> means children have not become independent enough and parents are being
>>> a "burden to their children."
>>>
>>> A 40 year old friend isn't going to have the same relationship with a 5
>>> year old as his/her 5 year old friends or 10 year old friends. And
>>> parent-child friendships evolve over the years until they are,
>>> eventually, adult-with-adult friendships.
>>>
>>> There is nothing wrong with wanting to be your child's friend. Do what
>>> it takes to earn their friendship - be supportive and kind and honest
>>> and trustworthy and caring and generous and loyal and fun and
>>> interesting and interested in them and all the other things that good
>>> friends are to each other. Be the best 40 year old friend you can be (or
>>> whatever age you are).
>>>
>>> People use "I'm the parent, not a friend," as an excuse to be mean,
>>> selfish, and lazy. Instead, be the adult in the friendship. Be mature.
>>> You've BEEN a five-year-old and your child has not been a
>>> forty-year-old, so you have an advantage in terms of long-term and wider
>>> perspective. Use that advantage to be an even better friend. You know
>>> how to be kinder and less self-centered and you know how beneficial it
>>> is to put forth the effort.
>>>
>>> I can honestly say that my children and I are friends. I know they'd say
>>> the same. I'm not trying to act like I'm 18 or 21 or 24 -- I am 57 years
>>> old. They're having a "Halo" party at someone else's house tonight and
>>> will stay up all night playing video games and I'm not going to go and
>>> hang out with them all night and play Halo. I'm going to make a huge
>>> platter of deviled eggs for them to take over there, but I'm going to
>>> stay home and watch a movie with my husband and go to bed early enough
>>> that I'll feel good tomorrow. I'm not 18 and I don't recover as quickly
>>> as they do from a night with no sleep. I didn't go to the midnight
>>> showing of the Terminator movie the other night, for the same reason.
>>> But I was certainly invited and welcome.
>>>
>>> My kids are not spoiled brats because I've tried to be their friend.
>>> They hold jobs, they manage money, they make good and responsible
>>> decisions. We are very strongly "attached by affection and esteem."
>>>
>>> I wish I could wipe that expression out of everybody's minds and replace
>>> it with "Be the best friend to your children that you can be."
>>>
>>> -pam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/22/2009 11:48 PM, Robyn L. Coburn wrote:
>>>
>>>> My attitude continues to make the greatest difference to my happiness.
>>>> Most
>>>> of my needs are met in joyfully giving and being with my family. Those
>>>> that
>>>> are not met that way, are more able to be met when my daughter and
>>>> husband
>>>> are already happy and feeling generous. And if I am feeling like I need
>>>> a
>>>> break, I can take one in the space of a breath, a memory, a moment, a
>>>> hug.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Ren Allen

--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> Of course - feel free!
>
> -pam
>

Can I just swipe the entire post to put up at my blog?:) It was great!

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

Lyla Wolfenstein

yeah that's what i want to do too! s'okay?


----- Original Message -----
From: Ren Allen
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 8:09 AM
Subject: pam s - permision to quote? was Re: [AlwaysLearning] More on "me time/self care" was input regarding sleep issues with 4 year old





--- In [email protected], Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
> Of course - feel free!
>
> -pam
>

Can I just swipe the entire post to put up at my blog?:) It was great!

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

Of course.

-pam

Ren Allen wrote:
>
> Can I just swipe the entire post to put up at my blog?:) It was great!
>
> Ren
> radicalunschooling.blogspot.com
>
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-yeah that's what i want to do too! s'okay?-=-

STOP asking her. She said yes.
Stop asking anyone. If people post something here that you KNOW won't
hurt anyone anywhere (i.e. it's not talking about their sex life or
how goofy their relatives are, the if you want to quote it (quoting
meaning using the person's words in such a way that it's clear they
are that other person's words), there's no problem with that.

Give them credit. Maybe put a link to the list, or at least tell
where you read it.

Filling the list up with "Me too?" or Me, Too!" about ANYthing is a
bad use of the list.

What might be a good use of the list here would be to write something
useful or funny or profound about what Pam's writings made you realize
or think, and if you did quote it on your blog, give us a link to
that, and if you have any plans specifically to change your life about
it, that would be a good thing to share, too.

Try to make every post useful to many people--"many" meaning more than
a few, and not just people in one area; it's an international list.

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]