Potty trained in 1 week!
Kim Zerbe
I wanted to share something cool with this group. :)
I'm not sure if I wrote here a while back about being worried that my son
Damon (who was 4.5) would not be potty trained any time soon. (I feel like I
wrote somewhere, now can't seem to find it!)
Anyway, just after Christmas or New Years (of this year) I had been getting
a bit anxious about the fact that my 4.5yr old was still in pullups and had
absolutely no desire to go to the potty on his own. I felt like I was doing
everything I could to help him recognize when he had to pee and go to the
potty. But every time I asked or suggested he go or if we were shopping ask
him to go just because I was going, well, every time resulted in him yelling
at me or crying.
He would NOT sit on ANY potty if I asked. He would not seek one out on his
own. He would not tell me if he had gone pee or poop in his pullup. He would
often not let me change his poopy diapers without a full on fight, hitting
me, kicking, yelling, spitting.
Damon was a very busy child. Mostly busy with wii games, but played very
intently with trains and cars and other things too. He would sit in a pee
filled diaper so long (and pee in it multiple times) it would leak out onto
his pants. I kept waiting for him to TELL ME that he had peed or pooped and
needed to be changed. Wouldn't that be at least a step in the right
direction? If he knew he had gone?!
When I saw his wet pants, I'd change him right away, but felt like I had let
it go too long. Sometimes I had to stand him in the tub to rinse off because
the poop was everywhere. He would just never tell me he had pooped. I could
tell if I saw him go behind the couch, I knew what he was doing, but then
I'd have to wait until he was done, and even then he'd tell me he wasn't
done and wouldn't let me near him.
I was so frustrated with the way things were going! I did not push. I
refrained from shaming even though other people in his life (like my MIL and
occasionally his own dad) resorted to telling him that only babies wear
diapers, he was a big boy and big boys peed in the potty, etc etc. Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him anyway.)
I had doubts. I sort of envied other parents whose younger children used the
potty. I hated that I had to keep buying pullups. I thought about not buying
any more (some bad advice I was given) but the way things were going, he
still needed them for whatever reason.
I tried to let go of my frustrations. When I found him in poop, I did not
yell or get mad, I just picked him up and said it was time for a bath. He
knew. I started asking him to help clean the poop out of his butt in the tub
or shower and let him stay in as long as he wanted.
Because he sat in poop too much, he started getting a rash on his butt. At
least I think that's why he got it. I tried several kinds of creams and
epsom salts in his bath but the rash stayed. He picked at it and there were
open scabs. I had to put bandaids on his butt.
One day I said I was sad that he still had the rash. I wished we could help
make his rash go away. I thought he could help by not wearing pullups around
the house during the day. It would be good to run around and air it out. He
did not want the rash anymore so he tried it. Without pullups, he went and
sat on the potty. By himself. He still wanted to wear pullups at night, and
sometimes asked for one in the afternoons so he could poop in it. (I did try
telling him he could poop on the potty but it was too soon for that!)
Damon did really well for a few days. Then Grandma came to visit. She
watched Damon while I worked at an event for 4 days at the end of March. I
was home every evening. She took him out and kept him very busy. He wore
underwear. She was very dilligent about putting him on the potty every hour
or so. (A common method some parents swear by.) He was very good at peeing
in the potty when he had to (sometimes he didn't have to). At the end of 1
week, he was going to the potty on his own, whenever he needed to. OK, he
was still wearing pullups at night, but he didn't really need them. They
were always dry. One week. From pullups to underwear and no accidents.
One night he fell asleep in his clothes and I put him in bed. The next day
when he woke I told him he had slept without a pullup and stayed dry! He was
so excited! He stopped asking for pullups at night.
Then one day I was down in the laundry room in the basement and heard him
calling for me. Mom! MOM! It sounded urgent so I rushed up but couldn't find
him. He was on the potty and needed to be wiped! OMG! He had pooped on the
potty on his own! Hallelujah!!! Who knew it could happen?! I tried not to
make a big deal out of it, but it was pretty cool. He told his dad about it
when he got home.
Ever since then he goes to the bathroom on his own, to pee or poop. There
have been several accidents. A couple of poops in the pants, and I just do
what I did before, put him in the bathtub. Now he cleans himself up while I
scrub the underwear. He has peed in the bed a couple of times, when he fell
asleep early and we didn't make one last trip to the potty. I always mention
that he didn't get to empty his bladder before he fell asleep because he
gets really upset when he wets the bed and cries.
I wet the bed for many years and was yelled at a lot for something I could
not control. I remember stripping the sheets off my own bed and sleeping on
the floor because I didn't want to wake anyone up and get yelled at. I think
I wanted to give Damon the benefit of the doubt in case he was like me. My
husband never yells at him for wetting the bed either. He even does the
laundry.
I just wanted to share how it all worked out. Kids are amazing. I don't
think I posted my frustrations here, but now you get the whole story with a
happy ending. How it does pay off to wait it out, be compassionate, and find
a way to give your child what he needs. Maybe this will be an encouragement
to anyone else in the same situation!
Kim Zerbe
Damon will be 5 next week (and is no longer in pullups, hooray!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not sure if I wrote here a while back about being worried that my son
Damon (who was 4.5) would not be potty trained any time soon. (I feel like I
wrote somewhere, now can't seem to find it!)
Anyway, just after Christmas or New Years (of this year) I had been getting
a bit anxious about the fact that my 4.5yr old was still in pullups and had
absolutely no desire to go to the potty on his own. I felt like I was doing
everything I could to help him recognize when he had to pee and go to the
potty. But every time I asked or suggested he go or if we were shopping ask
him to go just because I was going, well, every time resulted in him yelling
at me or crying.
He would NOT sit on ANY potty if I asked. He would not seek one out on his
own. He would not tell me if he had gone pee or poop in his pullup. He would
often not let me change his poopy diapers without a full on fight, hitting
me, kicking, yelling, spitting.
Damon was a very busy child. Mostly busy with wii games, but played very
intently with trains and cars and other things too. He would sit in a pee
filled diaper so long (and pee in it multiple times) it would leak out onto
his pants. I kept waiting for him to TELL ME that he had peed or pooped and
needed to be changed. Wouldn't that be at least a step in the right
direction? If he knew he had gone?!
When I saw his wet pants, I'd change him right away, but felt like I had let
it go too long. Sometimes I had to stand him in the tub to rinse off because
the poop was everywhere. He would just never tell me he had pooped. I could
tell if I saw him go behind the couch, I knew what he was doing, but then
I'd have to wait until he was done, and even then he'd tell me he wasn't
done and wouldn't let me near him.
I was so frustrated with the way things were going! I did not push. I
refrained from shaming even though other people in his life (like my MIL and
occasionally his own dad) resorted to telling him that only babies wear
diapers, he was a big boy and big boys peed in the potty, etc etc. Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him anyway.)
I had doubts. I sort of envied other parents whose younger children used the
potty. I hated that I had to keep buying pullups. I thought about not buying
any more (some bad advice I was given) but the way things were going, he
still needed them for whatever reason.
I tried to let go of my frustrations. When I found him in poop, I did not
yell or get mad, I just picked him up and said it was time for a bath. He
knew. I started asking him to help clean the poop out of his butt in the tub
or shower and let him stay in as long as he wanted.
Because he sat in poop too much, he started getting a rash on his butt. At
least I think that's why he got it. I tried several kinds of creams and
epsom salts in his bath but the rash stayed. He picked at it and there were
open scabs. I had to put bandaids on his butt.
One day I said I was sad that he still had the rash. I wished we could help
make his rash go away. I thought he could help by not wearing pullups around
the house during the day. It would be good to run around and air it out. He
did not want the rash anymore so he tried it. Without pullups, he went and
sat on the potty. By himself. He still wanted to wear pullups at night, and
sometimes asked for one in the afternoons so he could poop in it. (I did try
telling him he could poop on the potty but it was too soon for that!)
Damon did really well for a few days. Then Grandma came to visit. She
watched Damon while I worked at an event for 4 days at the end of March. I
was home every evening. She took him out and kept him very busy. He wore
underwear. She was very dilligent about putting him on the potty every hour
or so. (A common method some parents swear by.) He was very good at peeing
in the potty when he had to (sometimes he didn't have to). At the end of 1
week, he was going to the potty on his own, whenever he needed to. OK, he
was still wearing pullups at night, but he didn't really need them. They
were always dry. One week. From pullups to underwear and no accidents.
One night he fell asleep in his clothes and I put him in bed. The next day
when he woke I told him he had slept without a pullup and stayed dry! He was
so excited! He stopped asking for pullups at night.
Then one day I was down in the laundry room in the basement and heard him
calling for me. Mom! MOM! It sounded urgent so I rushed up but couldn't find
him. He was on the potty and needed to be wiped! OMG! He had pooped on the
potty on his own! Hallelujah!!! Who knew it could happen?! I tried not to
make a big deal out of it, but it was pretty cool. He told his dad about it
when he got home.
Ever since then he goes to the bathroom on his own, to pee or poop. There
have been several accidents. A couple of poops in the pants, and I just do
what I did before, put him in the bathtub. Now he cleans himself up while I
scrub the underwear. He has peed in the bed a couple of times, when he fell
asleep early and we didn't make one last trip to the potty. I always mention
that he didn't get to empty his bladder before he fell asleep because he
gets really upset when he wets the bed and cries.
I wet the bed for many years and was yelled at a lot for something I could
not control. I remember stripping the sheets off my own bed and sleeping on
the floor because I didn't want to wake anyone up and get yelled at. I think
I wanted to give Damon the benefit of the doubt in case he was like me. My
husband never yells at him for wetting the bed either. He even does the
laundry.
I just wanted to share how it all worked out. Kids are amazing. I don't
think I posted my frustrations here, but now you get the whole story with a
happy ending. How it does pay off to wait it out, be compassionate, and find
a way to give your child what he needs. Maybe this will be an encouragement
to anyone else in the same situation!
Kim Zerbe
Damon will be 5 next week (and is no longer in pullups, hooray!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=I wanted to give Damon the benefit of the doubt in case he was like
me. -=-
Keith wet the bed as a kid and was shamed and laughed at and harrassed.
Marty, who is very much like Keith in many blatant ways, also left-
handed, other similarities, also wet the bed, so it was healing for
Keith to be kind to Marty.
Marty was fine with pooping in the potty, or any daytime stuff, but at
night he wore a diaper, into wearing small adult diapers, until he was
nine. He doesn't mind people knowing. It was one of the trivia
questions at his 19th birthday. Kirby and I didn't want to put it in
the game, but Marty reviewed the questions and wanted it added. He
figures by sharing that story other people's parents will be nicer to
their kids who might have the same traits.
-=- Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work
for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him
anyway.)-=-
I think the "don't coerce under any circumstances" is coercion in
itself. It's strangers shaming strangers, trying to control other
parents.
Holly gets paid to work at the flower shop. Are they coercing her?
Keith expects Marty to make payments on the jeep he bought, but the
loan is in my name and Keith's. Are we coercing him?
Keith goes to work and gets paid enough to make house payments (and
Marty's jeep payment, just in case). Not coercion.
Coercion has been defined beyond its natural meaning by people
redefining persuasion or reward as coercion. Saying "I'll give you $1
to be quiet" might be bribery, but it's not coercion. "Be quiet or
I'll spank you" is coercion. Maybe you were saying that there was a
threat on the other side of the $1 with his grandma, but I just wanted
to talk about the idea that coercion includes every form of request or
discussion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
me. -=-
Keith wet the bed as a kid and was shamed and laughed at and harrassed.
Marty, who is very much like Keith in many blatant ways, also left-
handed, other similarities, also wet the bed, so it was healing for
Keith to be kind to Marty.
Marty was fine with pooping in the potty, or any daytime stuff, but at
night he wore a diaper, into wearing small adult diapers, until he was
nine. He doesn't mind people knowing. It was one of the trivia
questions at his 19th birthday. Kirby and I didn't want to put it in
the game, but Marty reviewed the questions and wanted it added. He
figures by sharing that story other people's parents will be nicer to
their kids who might have the same traits.
-=- Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work
for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him
anyway.)-=-
I think the "don't coerce under any circumstances" is coercion in
itself. It's strangers shaming strangers, trying to control other
parents.
Holly gets paid to work at the flower shop. Are they coercing her?
Keith expects Marty to make payments on the jeep he bought, but the
loan is in my name and Keith's. Are we coercing him?
Keith goes to work and gets paid enough to make house payments (and
Marty's jeep payment, just in case). Not coercion.
Coercion has been defined beyond its natural meaning by people
redefining persuasion or reward as coercion. Saying "I'll give you $1
to be quiet" might be bribery, but it's not coercion. "Be quiet or
I'll spank you" is coercion. Maybe you were saying that there was a
threat on the other side of the $1 with his grandma, but I just wanted
to talk about the idea that coercion includes every form of request or
discussion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/18/2009 2:47 AM, Kim Zerbe wrote:
<<
Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him anyway.)>>
I'm not sure where you got the idea that this kind of thing would not "work." Rewards and punishments do very often work in the sense that they do result in the specific behaviors you're rewarding or punishing. There are other problems with using rewards and punishments, but they don't always apply equally in every situation. The biggest problem, imo, is undermining intrinsic motivation - taking initiative away from the child and leaving the child feeling powerless and manipulated. Sometimes, a little bribery might be just the thing to support a person in doing something they really want to do, though. In fact, if anybody wants to bribe ME by offering me some kind of little reward every time I exercise, I'll happily take it.<G> Of course, I'm talking about something we're doing collaboratively with a person who WANTS to do it - not talking about behaviorist methods of trying to shape behavior against someone's will.
So, why not extend this to everything we want our kids to do? Because it can mess with intrinsic motivation. If we pay a kid a dollar every time they read a book, for example, then we're telling them that reading, in and of itself, is not a valuable activity. But I paid Roxana to read to Rosie (Rosie was a later reader and my third child and Rosie wanted to be read to for hours every day. Rox was a great reader - did all the voices and sang the songs.) without worrying that it would mess up Roxana's long-run motivation to read out loud - I did it to get her to engage in more of a specific and short-term action and to show my appreciation that she'd be willing to do more of it than she'd have chosen for her own sake.
I don't think rewarding for using a potty is a great idea, normally, because there is already a strong internal motivation to do it and most kids WILL do it when they physically can.
Rewarding is the same as punishing if the reward is withheld when the child fails. So if you set up a reward system for using the potty, to try to get the kid to use it, but the kid simply isn't physically or emotionally/developmentally ready for it, then you're punishing him for something out of his control. Mean.
But, gently making using the potty more fun can be useful for those kids who ARE physically capable, and would like to be dry, but don't want to stop playing for even a few minutes to go to the bathroom.
I'm smiling because just writing this made me think about the bathrooms at Sandra's house - they are brimming with books and puzzles random little things and the backs of the doors are covered with comic strips and funny photos and little typed up stories and on and on....going to the bathroom there is so much fun that people tend to stay IN there much longer than normal. I'm pretty sure Sandra isn't bribing people to use the potty, but I bet there are those people who don't resist going, who don't sit and "hold it" as long, because going in there is something to look forward to.
Kim Zerbe
<< I don't think rewarding for using a potty is a great idea, normally,
because there is already a strong internal motivation to do it and most kids
WILL do it when they physically can.
But, gently making using the potty more fun can be useful for those kids who
ARE physically capable, and would like to be dry, but don't want to stop
playing for even a few minutes to go to the bathroom. >>
I think that's why it worked. Or seemed to anyway. I think it actually
played out more like this: If he didn't want to or have to pee, he wouldn't.
Offering him a dollar at that time meant very little. If he had to pee and
did, he figured he might as well get the dollar!
My MIL does all the classic parenting things, some of which I cringe at. She
says Good Job! way too often, it comes out of her mouth like breathing. She
says shaming things like diapers are for babies as if that would motivate
one to use the potty. My SIL first observed how she would label her girls as
"the crabby girl" or say "you're a tired girl" when one was sleepy. My SIL
did not want them being labeled and would say, she's not a crabby girl, she
just happens to be crabby at the moment. My MIL still doesn't understand the
distinction.
She tries to make her grandkids eat "just one bite" of food she puts on the
table. If Damon is interested, he might try something new, otherwise nothing
is going in his mouth if he doesn't want it. A strong willed kid makes you
rethink common parenting practices. I could see this escalating in a battle
of wills to where a parent is forcing a kid's mouth open to insert spoon and
saying "Now chew, dammit!" How in the world does this help?! My own mother
used to say, "you will eat it and like it!" Huh? Really?!
As far as grandmas go, my MIL is a pretty good one, but I am glad she is not
in our lives every day!
Oh, and I like the idea that a bathroom could be a fun place to go!
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
because there is already a strong internal motivation to do it and most kids
WILL do it when they physically can.
But, gently making using the potty more fun can be useful for those kids who
ARE physically capable, and would like to be dry, but don't want to stop
playing for even a few minutes to go to the bathroom. >>
I think that's why it worked. Or seemed to anyway. I think it actually
played out more like this: If he didn't want to or have to pee, he wouldn't.
Offering him a dollar at that time meant very little. If he had to pee and
did, he figured he might as well get the dollar!
My MIL does all the classic parenting things, some of which I cringe at. She
says Good Job! way too often, it comes out of her mouth like breathing. She
says shaming things like diapers are for babies as if that would motivate
one to use the potty. My SIL first observed how she would label her girls as
"the crabby girl" or say "you're a tired girl" when one was sleepy. My SIL
did not want them being labeled and would say, she's not a crabby girl, she
just happens to be crabby at the moment. My MIL still doesn't understand the
distinction.
She tries to make her grandkids eat "just one bite" of food she puts on the
table. If Damon is interested, he might try something new, otherwise nothing
is going in his mouth if he doesn't want it. A strong willed kid makes you
rethink common parenting practices. I could see this escalating in a battle
of wills to where a parent is forcing a kid's mouth open to insert spoon and
saying "Now chew, dammit!" How in the world does this help?! My own mother
used to say, "you will eat it and like it!" Huh? Really?!
As far as grandmas go, my MIL is a pretty good one, but I am glad she is not
in our lives every day!
Oh, and I like the idea that a bathroom could be a fun place to go!
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
> I'm smiling because just writing this made me think about the bathrooms atWhen you describe it that way, I can hardly wait to go visit Sandra so I can
> Sandra's house - they are brimming with books and puzzles random little
> things and the backs of the doors are covered with comic strips and funny
> photos and little typed up stories and on and on....going to the bathroom
> there is so much fun that people tend to stay IN there much longer than
> normal. I'm pretty sure Sandra isn't bribing people to use the potty, but
> I bet there are those people who don't resist going, who don't sit and
> "hold it" as long, because going in there is something to look forward
> to.>>>
see her bathroom.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=- But I paid Roxana to read to Rosie (Rosie was a later reader and
my third child and Rosie wanted to be read to for hours every day. Rox
was a great reader - did all the voices and sang the songs.) without
worrying that it would mess up Roxana's long-run motivation to read
out loud --=-
There were a few times in olden times when I paid Kirby to read to
Marty, or to play with him. It wasn't secret from Marty. It was me
really needing to have an interrupted hour and Kirby needing money.
Having someone from outside the family do it was more fun for
everyone, but Kirby sometimes wanted $3 when he had already spent his
allowance.
It didn't grow in popularity at our house. It was rare.
-= I'm smiling because just writing this made me think about the
bathrooms at Sandra's house - they are brimming with books and puzzles
random little things and the backs of the doors are covered with comic
strips and funny photos and little typed up stories and on and
on....going to the bathroom there is so much fun that people tend to
stay IN there much longer than normal. I'm pretty sure Sandra isn't
bribing people to use the potty, but I bet there are those people who
don't resist going, who don't sit and "hold it" as long, because going
in there is something to look forward to.-=-
Yesterday I was noticing the Ninja Turtle basketball "Waterfull" toy
could use water, but we lost the stopper ten years ago, and it's
stopped up with wax. That's a project I might not want to mess with
in the next month or two.
The inside of the door has been restarted with swine flu humor. I do
need to find and reprint that wonderful Sinfest strip about metaphors
and similes.
http://sandradodd.com/conference/Sacramento2001.html
Oh, certainly now I have to print it out, or change my webpage. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
my third child and Rosie wanted to be read to for hours every day. Rox
was a great reader - did all the voices and sang the songs.) without
worrying that it would mess up Roxana's long-run motivation to read
out loud --=-
There were a few times in olden times when I paid Kirby to read to
Marty, or to play with him. It wasn't secret from Marty. It was me
really needing to have an interrupted hour and Kirby needing money.
Having someone from outside the family do it was more fun for
everyone, but Kirby sometimes wanted $3 when he had already spent his
allowance.
It didn't grow in popularity at our house. It was rare.
-= I'm smiling because just writing this made me think about the
bathrooms at Sandra's house - they are brimming with books and puzzles
random little things and the backs of the doors are covered with comic
strips and funny photos and little typed up stories and on and
on....going to the bathroom there is so much fun that people tend to
stay IN there much longer than normal. I'm pretty sure Sandra isn't
bribing people to use the potty, but I bet there are those people who
don't resist going, who don't sit and "hold it" as long, because going
in there is something to look forward to.-=-
Yesterday I was noticing the Ninja Turtle basketball "Waterfull" toy
could use water, but we lost the stopper ten years ago, and it's
stopped up with wax. That's a project I might not want to mess with
in the next month or two.
The inside of the door has been restarted with swine flu humor. I do
need to find and reprint that wonderful Sinfest strip about metaphors
and similes.
http://sandradodd.com/conference/Sacramento2001.html
Oh, certainly now I have to print it out, or change my webpage. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 6/18/2009 1:00 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
then a dime per book for every additional book in the same day. These
were all picture books. Roxana liked doing it, but I'd pay her to get
her to do it when it was convenient for me and Rosie was wanting it. It
was very sweet - the two girls would go all over the house finding books
and sit down with a HUGE pile - probably 30 or more. Rosie would sit in
the same chair with Roxana, all cuddled up just like she would if I was
reading to her. Sometimes Roxana would stop and explain something if she
thought maybe Rosie didn't understand.
They did this a lot for a couple of years. Rosie would sometimes get the
money to pay Roxana out of a big jar of family change.
-pam
> There were a few times in olden times when I paid Kirby to read toI paid Roxana 5 cents per book for the first 10 books in one day and
> Marty, or to play with him. It wasn't secret from Marty. It was me
> really needing to have an interrupted hour and Kirby needing money.
>
> Having someone from outside the family do it was more fun for
> everyone, but Kirby sometimes wanted $3 when he had already spent his
> allowance.
>
> It didn't grow in popularity at our house. It was rare.
>
then a dime per book for every additional book in the same day. These
were all picture books. Roxana liked doing it, but I'd pay her to get
her to do it when it was convenient for me and Rosie was wanting it. It
was very sweet - the two girls would go all over the house finding books
and sit down with a HUGE pile - probably 30 or more. Rosie would sit in
the same chair with Roxana, all cuddled up just like she would if I was
reading to her. Sometimes Roxana would stop and explain something if she
thought maybe Rosie didn't understand.
They did this a lot for a couple of years. Rosie would sometimes get the
money to pay Roxana out of a big jar of family change.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-Rosie would sometimes get the
money to pay Roxana out of a big jar of family change.-=-
That's wonderful! I hadn't thought of backing the kids in being able
to hire their own readers.
I need to have some more kids!!
Holly is out with Marty's girlfriend. :-) They're going to the
birthday party of someone who's actually mostly a friend of Kirby's.
She's having all the women over first, for dinner, and then the guys
for games. Most of the games and much of the furniture has been taken
from our house. Marty is running a role playing game for a group of
guys who will (most or all) be going to the party a little later.
I'm glad those Holly and Marty are getting along well again. There
were some irritations over the past few months. I heard both sides
and couldn't fix it, but I worked at trying to provide space and
privacy and awareness for both of them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
money to pay Roxana out of a big jar of family change.-=-
That's wonderful! I hadn't thought of backing the kids in being able
to hire their own readers.
I need to have some more kids!!
Holly is out with Marty's girlfriend. :-) They're going to the
birthday party of someone who's actually mostly a friend of Kirby's.
She's having all the women over first, for dinner, and then the guys
for games. Most of the games and much of the furniture has been taken
from our house. Marty is running a role playing game for a group of
guys who will (most or all) be going to the party a little later.
I'm glad those Holly and Marty are getting along well again. There
were some irritations over the past few months. I heard both sides
and couldn't fix it, but I worked at trying to provide space and
privacy and awareness for both of them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kathryn
I am a little late with this. Sorry.
Regarding wetting the bed.
My brother wet the bed nearly every night til he was about 13. My parents never shamed him or anything. It was just a fact of life. They encouraged him that eventually he would outgrow it. He did and as far as I know he does not have any hang ups about it. They did take him to the doctor and did not find any medical problems.
One of my sons wet the bed nearly every night until he was 10 or 11 then it gradually slowed down to happening only occasionally. At 13 there were accidents a couple times a week, but by that time he was waking up as it started so I was only washing pajama bottoms instead of all the bedding. Our family doctor did not feel there were any issues that required medical intervention. They offered a pad that would set off an alarm if he peed on it but said he would eventually stay dry through the night without it. We decided against the pad and waited for time to do its thing. He does not have any hang ups about it.
I handled it like my parents. It was just another thing, a non-issue. Some people drool while they sleep. Some get pimples.Some throw up when they are sick. Some have to wear glasses. Stuff happens beyond our control. Every person is unique.
I strongly believe that eating and toileting are two things that should never be allowed to become part of a power struggle, because everyone has to eat and eliminate and should not have to suffer with eating disorders and/or constipation.
BTW, as an afterthought, I can't think of anything that should be allowed to be a power struggle. Hmm. something to think about.
Kathryn
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:52:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Potty trained in 1 week!
-=I wanted to give Damon the benefit of the doubt in case he was like
me. -=-
Keith wet the bed as a kid and was shamed and laughed at and harrassed.
Marty, who is very much like Keith in many blatant ways, also left-
handed, other similarities, also wet the bed, so it was healing for
Keith to be kind to Marty.
Marty was fine with pooping in the potty, or any daytime stuff, but at
night he wore a diaper, into wearing small adult diapers, until he was
nine. He doesn't mind people knowing. It was one of the trivia
questions at his 19th birthday. Kirby and I didn't want to put it in
the game, but Marty reviewed the questions and wanted it added. He
figures by sharing that story other people's parents will be nicer to
their kids who might have the same traits.
-=- Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work
for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him
anyway.)-=-
I think the "don't coerce under any circumstances" is coercion in
itself. It's strangers shaming strangers, trying to control other
parents.
Holly gets paid to work at the flower shop. Are they coercing her?
Keith expects Marty to make payments on the jeep he bought, but the
loan is in my name and Keith's. Are we coercing him?
Keith goes to work and gets paid enough to make house payments (and
Marty's jeep payment, just in case). Not coercion.
Coercion has been defined beyond its natural meaning by people
redefining persuasion or reward as coercion. Saying "I'll give you $1
to be quiet" might be bribery, but it's not coercion. "Be quiet or
I'll spank you" is coercion. Maybe you were saying that there was a
threat on the other side of the $1 with his grandma, but I just wanted
to talk about the idea that coercion includes every form of request or
discussion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Regarding wetting the bed.
My brother wet the bed nearly every night til he was about 13. My parents never shamed him or anything. It was just a fact of life. They encouraged him that eventually he would outgrow it. He did and as far as I know he does not have any hang ups about it. They did take him to the doctor and did not find any medical problems.
One of my sons wet the bed nearly every night until he was 10 or 11 then it gradually slowed down to happening only occasionally. At 13 there were accidents a couple times a week, but by that time he was waking up as it started so I was only washing pajama bottoms instead of all the bedding. Our family doctor did not feel there were any issues that required medical intervention. They offered a pad that would set off an alarm if he peed on it but said he would eventually stay dry through the night without it. We decided against the pad and waited for time to do its thing. He does not have any hang ups about it.
I handled it like my parents. It was just another thing, a non-issue. Some people drool while they sleep. Some get pimples.Some throw up when they are sick. Some have to wear glasses. Stuff happens beyond our control. Every person is unique.
I strongly believe that eating and toileting are two things that should never be allowed to become part of a power struggle, because everyone has to eat and eliminate and should not have to suffer with eating disorders and/or constipation.
BTW, as an afterthought, I can't think of anything that should be allowed to be a power struggle. Hmm. something to think about.
Kathryn
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:52:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Potty trained in 1 week!
-=I wanted to give Damon the benefit of the doubt in case he was like
me. -=-
Keith wet the bed as a kid and was shamed and laughed at and harrassed.
Marty, who is very much like Keith in many blatant ways, also left-
handed, other similarities, also wet the bed, so it was healing for
Keith to be kind to Marty.
Marty was fine with pooping in the potty, or any daytime stuff, but at
night he wore a diaper, into wearing small adult diapers, until he was
nine. He doesn't mind people knowing. It was one of the trivia
questions at his 19th birthday. Kirby and I didn't want to put it in
the game, but Marty reviewed the questions and wanted it added. He
figures by sharing that story other people's parents will be nicer to
their kids who might have the same traits.
-=- Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work
for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him
anyway.)-=-
I think the "don't coerce under any circumstances" is coercion in
itself. It's strangers shaming strangers, trying to control other
parents.
Holly gets paid to work at the flower shop. Are they coercing her?
Keith expects Marty to make payments on the jeep he bought, but the
loan is in my name and Keith's. Are we coercing him?
Keith goes to work and gets paid enough to make house payments (and
Marty's jeep payment, just in case). Not coercion.
Coercion has been defined beyond its natural meaning by people
redefining persuasion or reward as coercion. Saying "I'll give you $1
to be quiet" might be bribery, but it's not coercion. "Be quiet or
I'll spank you" is coercion. Maybe you were saying that there was a
threat on the other side of the $1 with his grandma, but I just wanted
to talk about the idea that coercion includes every form of request or
discussion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Zerena
I was a bed wetter up into my early teens and beyond and was treated
horribly by my mom's 2nd husband, I had to wear a towel to bed at night as a
diaper and was given a smack in the head and ridiculed for accidents. I
remember being placed in a diaper and a crib at 5 by a babysitter because I
had a daytime accident. I was an extremely shy and self conscious child,
with low self esteem. I also remember taking little blue pills at night to
help with my problem. My problem became easier as I got older because I was
in charge of laundry and could hide the evidence before it was seen.
So we have always been very careful in how we deal with kids in our house in
this area as it did scar me.
My youngest is 11.5 and still has night time accidents. At 2.5 yrs old she
was potty trained and a BIG girl who refused to wear diapers, and it was a
fight we were not interested in. Over the last 9 years, her accidents have
become fewer and fewer, from nightly for 2 weeks to 2 or 3 in a row a month.
We have done all the tricks of watching what she eats/drinks and when and
making sure she used the potty and even gotten her up in the night to no
avail. It happens when it happens with little or no explanation, stress or
night time crying can be causes but not consistent enough to be a for sure
cause. We have never made an issue of it and it is expected that when she
wakes she takes a bath, and strips her bed, which she has always done except
for one occasion, and I didn't realize until we were out in public. We did
consult our paediatrician and were offered the pad or alarm that went off if
she got wet, but for social situations that is embarrassing, and were given
DDAVP for her. We call it the "pee pill". She also suffers from mild anxiety
so there are times when this pill is helpful. We use it only for when she is
at camp (she is a Scout and a Guide) and sleepovers to give her a little
extra help staying dry in what is often be a higher anxiety time, and higher
chance of accidents. Bed wetting does not seem to cause any emotional issues
for her and most places she has sleepovers at completely understand. She
knows that when she goes to camp that she doesn't drink hot chocolate before
bed as she is guaranteed an accident if she does, she also knows to watch
her fluid intake in the evening. She also takes an extra sleeping bag to
camp, and her camp councillors know and have been instructed on how to deal
with this as it affects her anxiety and everything else if dealt with
harshly. Recently our family doctor reluctantly gave us a prescription for
the pill stating she didn't think it was needed anymore, our paediatrician
does feel that with her anxiety it is very helpful if for nothing more to
give her peace of mind which is half the battle.
My older 2 kids occasional bed wetting events but never often, and usually
easily explained (sick, over tired, high stress).
We also know quite a few kids who were late bed wetter's. Most of them used
pull-ups but not all, and they always felt comfortable here.
Zerena
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Kathryn
Sent: June-20-09 12:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Potty trained in 1 week!
I am a little late with this. Sorry.
Regarding wetting the bed.
My brother wet the bed nearly every night til he was about 13. My parents
never shamed him or anything. It was just a fact of life. They encouraged
him that eventually he would outgrow it. He did and as far as I know he does
not have any hang ups about it. They did take him to the doctor and did not
find any medical problems.
One of my sons wet the bed nearly every night until he was 10 or 11 then it
gradually slowed down to happening only occasionally. At 13 there were
accidents a couple times a week, but by that time he was waking up as it
started so I was only washing pajama bottoms instead of all the bedding. Our
family doctor did not feel there were any issues that required medical
intervention. They offered a pad that would set off an alarm if he peed on
it but said he would eventually stay dry through the night without it. We
decided against the pad and waited for time to do its thing. He does not
have any hang ups about it.
I handled it like my parents. It was just another thing, a non-issue. Some
people drool while they sleep. Some get pimples.Some throw up when they are
sick. Some have to wear glasses. Stuff happens beyond our control. Every
person is unique.
I strongly believe that eating and toileting are two things that should
never be allowed to become part of a power struggle, because everyone has to
eat and eliminate and should not have to suffer with eating disorders and/or
constipation.
BTW, as an afterthought, I can't think of anything that should be allowed to
be a power struggle. Hmm. something to think about.
Kathryn
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@... <mailto:Sandra%40SandraDodd.com> >
To: [email protected] <mailto:AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:52:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Potty trained in 1 week!
-=I wanted to give Damon the benefit of the doubt in case he was like
me. -=-
Keith wet the bed as a kid and was shamed and laughed at and harrassed.
Marty, who is very much like Keith in many blatant ways, also left-
handed, other similarities, also wet the bed, so it was healing for
Keith to be kind to Marty.
Marty was fine with pooping in the potty, or any daytime stuff, but at
night he wore a diaper, into wearing small adult diapers, until he was
nine. He doesn't mind people knowing. It was one of the trivia
questions at his 19th birthday. Kirby and I didn't want to put it in
the game, but Marty reviewed the questions and wanted it added. He
figures by sharing that story other people's parents will be nicer to
their kids who might have the same traits.
-=- Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work
for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him
anyway.)-=-
I think the "don't coerce under any circumstances" is coercion in
itself. It's strangers shaming strangers, trying to control other
parents.
Holly gets paid to work at the flower shop. Are they coercing her?
Keith expects Marty to make payments on the jeep he bought, but the
loan is in my name and Keith's. Are we coercing him?
Keith goes to work and gets paid enough to make house payments (and
Marty's jeep payment, just in case). Not coercion.
Coercion has been defined beyond its natural meaning by people
redefining persuasion or reward as coercion. Saying "I'll give you $1
to be quiet" might be bribery, but it's not coercion. "Be quiet or
I'll spank you" is coercion. Maybe you were saying that there was a
threat on the other side of the $1 with his grandma, but I just wanted
to talk about the idea that coercion includes every form of request or
discussion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
horribly by my mom's 2nd husband, I had to wear a towel to bed at night as a
diaper and was given a smack in the head and ridiculed for accidents. I
remember being placed in a diaper and a crib at 5 by a babysitter because I
had a daytime accident. I was an extremely shy and self conscious child,
with low self esteem. I also remember taking little blue pills at night to
help with my problem. My problem became easier as I got older because I was
in charge of laundry and could hide the evidence before it was seen.
So we have always been very careful in how we deal with kids in our house in
this area as it did scar me.
My youngest is 11.5 and still has night time accidents. At 2.5 yrs old she
was potty trained and a BIG girl who refused to wear diapers, and it was a
fight we were not interested in. Over the last 9 years, her accidents have
become fewer and fewer, from nightly for 2 weeks to 2 or 3 in a row a month.
We have done all the tricks of watching what she eats/drinks and when and
making sure she used the potty and even gotten her up in the night to no
avail. It happens when it happens with little or no explanation, stress or
night time crying can be causes but not consistent enough to be a for sure
cause. We have never made an issue of it and it is expected that when she
wakes she takes a bath, and strips her bed, which she has always done except
for one occasion, and I didn't realize until we were out in public. We did
consult our paediatrician and were offered the pad or alarm that went off if
she got wet, but for social situations that is embarrassing, and were given
DDAVP for her. We call it the "pee pill". She also suffers from mild anxiety
so there are times when this pill is helpful. We use it only for when she is
at camp (she is a Scout and a Guide) and sleepovers to give her a little
extra help staying dry in what is often be a higher anxiety time, and higher
chance of accidents. Bed wetting does not seem to cause any emotional issues
for her and most places she has sleepovers at completely understand. She
knows that when she goes to camp that she doesn't drink hot chocolate before
bed as she is guaranteed an accident if she does, she also knows to watch
her fluid intake in the evening. She also takes an extra sleeping bag to
camp, and her camp councillors know and have been instructed on how to deal
with this as it affects her anxiety and everything else if dealt with
harshly. Recently our family doctor reluctantly gave us a prescription for
the pill stating she didn't think it was needed anymore, our paediatrician
does feel that with her anxiety it is very helpful if for nothing more to
give her peace of mind which is half the battle.
My older 2 kids occasional bed wetting events but never often, and usually
easily explained (sick, over tired, high stress).
We also know quite a few kids who were late bed wetter's. Most of them used
pull-ups but not all, and they always felt comfortable here.
Zerena
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Kathryn
Sent: June-20-09 12:52 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Potty trained in 1 week!
I am a little late with this. Sorry.
Regarding wetting the bed.
My brother wet the bed nearly every night til he was about 13. My parents
never shamed him or anything. It was just a fact of life. They encouraged
him that eventually he would outgrow it. He did and as far as I know he does
not have any hang ups about it. They did take him to the doctor and did not
find any medical problems.
One of my sons wet the bed nearly every night until he was 10 or 11 then it
gradually slowed down to happening only occasionally. At 13 there were
accidents a couple times a week, but by that time he was waking up as it
started so I was only washing pajama bottoms instead of all the bedding. Our
family doctor did not feel there were any issues that required medical
intervention. They offered a pad that would set off an alarm if he peed on
it but said he would eventually stay dry through the night without it. We
decided against the pad and waited for time to do its thing. He does not
have any hang ups about it.
I handled it like my parents. It was just another thing, a non-issue. Some
people drool while they sleep. Some get pimples.Some throw up when they are
sick. Some have to wear glasses. Stuff happens beyond our control. Every
person is unique.
I strongly believe that eating and toileting are two things that should
never be allowed to become part of a power struggle, because everyone has to
eat and eliminate and should not have to suffer with eating disorders and/or
constipation.
BTW, as an afterthought, I can't think of anything that should be allowed to
be a power struggle. Hmm. something to think about.
Kathryn
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@... <mailto:Sandra%40SandraDodd.com> >
To: [email protected] <mailto:AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 9:52:14 AM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Potty trained in 1 week!
-=I wanted to give Damon the benefit of the doubt in case he was like
me. -=-
Keith wet the bed as a kid and was shamed and laughed at and harrassed.
Marty, who is very much like Keith in many blatant ways, also left-
handed, other similarities, also wet the bed, so it was healing for
Keith to be kind to Marty.
Marty was fine with pooping in the potty, or any daytime stuff, but at
night he wore a diaper, into wearing small adult diapers, until he was
nine. He doesn't mind people knowing. It was one of the trivia
questions at his 19th birthday. Kirby and I didn't want to put it in
the game, but Marty reviewed the questions and wanted it added. He
figures by sharing that story other people's parents will be nicer to
their kids who might have the same traits.
-=- Grandma
also gave him $1 every time he did pee on the potty and lo and behold he
used the potty for her. That wasn't supposed to work! Why did it work
for
her?! (Maybe it didn't?! Maybe she was coercing him and paying him
anyway.)-=-
I think the "don't coerce under any circumstances" is coercion in
itself. It's strangers shaming strangers, trying to control other
parents.
Holly gets paid to work at the flower shop. Are they coercing her?
Keith expects Marty to make payments on the jeep he bought, but the
loan is in my name and Keith's. Are we coercing him?
Keith goes to work and gets paid enough to make house payments (and
Marty's jeep payment, just in case). Not coercion.
Coercion has been defined beyond its natural meaning by people
redefining persuasion or reward as coercion. Saying "I'll give you $1
to be quiet" might be bribery, but it's not coercion. "Be quiet or
I'll spank you" is coercion. Maybe you were saying that there was a
threat on the other side of the $1 with his grandma, but I just wanted
to talk about the idea that coercion includes every form of request or
discussion.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kim Zerbe
Thank you all for sharing your stories about night time accidents. It has
helped me realize that maybe Damon is not quite as potty trained as I had
thought! He really does fine during the days. But he has had several
incidents of wetting the bed since I wrote the original post about how he
was pretty much potty trained in a week.
Damon has always surprised me at how fast he does things. Usually it's
"early" and I am not quite ready for it, like walking before 9 months. He
crawled at 4.5 months and climbed the stairs at 7.5 months, plus I had
walked that early and sort of thought he might, so it wasn't a complete
surprise when he let go of the furniture one day and took 5 steps, but then
it only took about a week and he was walking around like a pro. By 10 mos he
was running everywhere! When I put him in the pool, he just started
swimming. He got on a tricycle and peddled away. In general, when he wants
to do something, he just does it! I got used to him doing things much
earlier than his peers, so not using the potty was a shock to me when all
the other kids seemed to be doing it. (I was at first thankful for something
to say when people talked about how Damon was always the first to do
something, then I could say well he's still not using the potty! Not in
front of him of course.)
So because I started the potty post I feel I should now add about how my son
has been having accidents more and more. I didn't really think much of it,
we just changed the sheets and cleaned him up. But upon reading the other
posts about older kids and accidents (totally me as well), I realized it has
been more frequent.
We sleep in a waterbed and changing sheets is NOT an easy task. We have an
old comforter under the bottom fitted sheet so you don't feel the plastic of
the waterbed plus it helps insulate the heat. In the summer we often sleep
on top of the top comforter (keeping the covers on keeps the heat in the
bed) and use a light sheet (mainly I think because it's weird to sleep
without a cover) or for some odd reason we have a 3rd comforter that is much
thinner than the regular one and we might pull that one on if it gets chilly
during the night.
So one night after a very busy day we all slept soundly and Damon wet the
bed quite thoroughly. He soaked all 3 comforters and a set of sheets plus
his jammies. Lots of laundry to do! I was totally sympathetic, but he was
upset that he was covered in pee AND that he had wet the bed.
It's hard to put a fitted sheet onto a waterbed! Oh what a pain! I
discovered long ago that we could use regular king sheets instead of the
specially made waterbed sheets that didn't stay down and are hard to find.
Anyway, once they're on, we tend to leave them on for several weeks because
it's such a pain to change them.
It wasn't so bad that we had to launder all those comforters, I figured they
probably needed it. But then it happened again a week later. This time only
the sheets and bottom comforter. Then again not even a week later and again
a few days after that. Not a lot at first, but then more and more. Hmmm....
maybe he is not ready to sleep without a pullup?!
A few days ago I woke up because Damon was crying hysterically and running
around the room. He was running back and forth tapping Geoff and me and
crying. I knew he had to pee, but wasn't sure why he was crying. It was only
a couple of hours after we had gone to bed, I had a hard time waking up. I
carried him to the potty but he would not sit on it. He kicked and screamed
and squirmed out of my arms and sat on the floor right in front of it and
cried. I tried to tell him that his body woke up because he had to pee, it
was a warning so he wouldn't wet the bed. But he was freaking out and I was
tired. Now I'm not even sure he was fully awake. I walked around to catch a
breath and think of what else I could do (brain not fully awake). When I
went back to Damon, he was sitting in a puddle of pee. I ran some water in
the tub until it was warm and then lifted him and set him in it, taking off
his wet pants. I got him and the floor cleaned up and dried and then I asked
him if he wanted to wear a pullup. We had 1 left. He said yes. It was dry
when he woke up, so he wore it again the next night too.
I am wondering if I do need to go buy some pullups and if it should become
part of our nighttime routine again or if they should just be there in case
he thinks he needs one. I don't really think he knows when he might have an
accident, so I'm not sure the purpose then, say if he chooses not to wear
one and wets the bed. Then they aren't really helping. But if he wears one
every night, how will he ever know when he can stop wearing them again? I
suppose it just happens.
I also want to add my husband asked last night why he was wearing a pullup
to bed because he was a big boy now and using the potty. I said it was his
choice, but I'd rather have him in a dry pullup than doing laundry every
day. I'm not sure how to talk to Geoff about this, but I'm also not sure the
best course of action so Damon doesn't think anything is wrong with himself.
Thanks,
Kim Zerbe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
helped me realize that maybe Damon is not quite as potty trained as I had
thought! He really does fine during the days. But he has had several
incidents of wetting the bed since I wrote the original post about how he
was pretty much potty trained in a week.
Damon has always surprised me at how fast he does things. Usually it's
"early" and I am not quite ready for it, like walking before 9 months. He
crawled at 4.5 months and climbed the stairs at 7.5 months, plus I had
walked that early and sort of thought he might, so it wasn't a complete
surprise when he let go of the furniture one day and took 5 steps, but then
it only took about a week and he was walking around like a pro. By 10 mos he
was running everywhere! When I put him in the pool, he just started
swimming. He got on a tricycle and peddled away. In general, when he wants
to do something, he just does it! I got used to him doing things much
earlier than his peers, so not using the potty was a shock to me when all
the other kids seemed to be doing it. (I was at first thankful for something
to say when people talked about how Damon was always the first to do
something, then I could say well he's still not using the potty! Not in
front of him of course.)
So because I started the potty post I feel I should now add about how my son
has been having accidents more and more. I didn't really think much of it,
we just changed the sheets and cleaned him up. But upon reading the other
posts about older kids and accidents (totally me as well), I realized it has
been more frequent.
We sleep in a waterbed and changing sheets is NOT an easy task. We have an
old comforter under the bottom fitted sheet so you don't feel the plastic of
the waterbed plus it helps insulate the heat. In the summer we often sleep
on top of the top comforter (keeping the covers on keeps the heat in the
bed) and use a light sheet (mainly I think because it's weird to sleep
without a cover) or for some odd reason we have a 3rd comforter that is much
thinner than the regular one and we might pull that one on if it gets chilly
during the night.
So one night after a very busy day we all slept soundly and Damon wet the
bed quite thoroughly. He soaked all 3 comforters and a set of sheets plus
his jammies. Lots of laundry to do! I was totally sympathetic, but he was
upset that he was covered in pee AND that he had wet the bed.
It's hard to put a fitted sheet onto a waterbed! Oh what a pain! I
discovered long ago that we could use regular king sheets instead of the
specially made waterbed sheets that didn't stay down and are hard to find.
Anyway, once they're on, we tend to leave them on for several weeks because
it's such a pain to change them.
It wasn't so bad that we had to launder all those comforters, I figured they
probably needed it. But then it happened again a week later. This time only
the sheets and bottom comforter. Then again not even a week later and again
a few days after that. Not a lot at first, but then more and more. Hmmm....
maybe he is not ready to sleep without a pullup?!
A few days ago I woke up because Damon was crying hysterically and running
around the room. He was running back and forth tapping Geoff and me and
crying. I knew he had to pee, but wasn't sure why he was crying. It was only
a couple of hours after we had gone to bed, I had a hard time waking up. I
carried him to the potty but he would not sit on it. He kicked and screamed
and squirmed out of my arms and sat on the floor right in front of it and
cried. I tried to tell him that his body woke up because he had to pee, it
was a warning so he wouldn't wet the bed. But he was freaking out and I was
tired. Now I'm not even sure he was fully awake. I walked around to catch a
breath and think of what else I could do (brain not fully awake). When I
went back to Damon, he was sitting in a puddle of pee. I ran some water in
the tub until it was warm and then lifted him and set him in it, taking off
his wet pants. I got him and the floor cleaned up and dried and then I asked
him if he wanted to wear a pullup. We had 1 left. He said yes. It was dry
when he woke up, so he wore it again the next night too.
I am wondering if I do need to go buy some pullups and if it should become
part of our nighttime routine again or if they should just be there in case
he thinks he needs one. I don't really think he knows when he might have an
accident, so I'm not sure the purpose then, say if he chooses not to wear
one and wets the bed. Then they aren't really helping. But if he wears one
every night, how will he ever know when he can stop wearing them again? I
suppose it just happens.
I also want to add my husband asked last night why he was wearing a pullup
to bed because he was a big boy now and using the potty. I said it was his
choice, but I'd rather have him in a dry pullup than doing laundry every
day. I'm not sure how to talk to Geoff about this, but I'm also not sure the
best course of action so Damon doesn't think anything is wrong with himself.
Thanks,
Kim Zerbe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
emiLy Q.
I know I am frequently mentioning food sensitivities / allergies, but I do
because learning about ours has had such a big impact on my own family's
life. When we discovered our daughter's sensitivity to dairy, I realized I
too have it. My husband realized it about three years later. We all
exhibit different symptoms, but it's clear we are all better off without it.
Food sensitivities are genetic, so the frequency with which parents have
children who also wet the bed makes sense.
Here are some night wetting resources if anyone is interested.
Here are some causes of bedwetting that are frequently overlooked:
1. Food sensitivities
It's interesting that parents often report their child wets the bed a night
after a birthday party. In our experience, the most commonly reported foods
that increase the chance of bedwetting are: carbonated, citrus, and
caffeinated juices; cola or chocolate, red dyes, and artificially colored
candy. Try eliminating each of these from your child's diet one by one and
see if the bedwetting stops.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T071200.asp
http://healthy-family.org/caryn/139
http://www.aafp.org/afp/990301ap/1205.html
-emiLy, mom to Delia (5.5) & Henry (2)
http://www.TheECstore.com
because learning about ours has had such a big impact on my own family's
life. When we discovered our daughter's sensitivity to dairy, I realized I
too have it. My husband realized it about three years later. We all
exhibit different symptoms, but it's clear we are all better off without it.
Food sensitivities are genetic, so the frequency with which parents have
children who also wet the bed makes sense.
Here are some night wetting resources if anyone is interested.
Here are some causes of bedwetting that are frequently overlooked:
1. Food sensitivities
It's interesting that parents often report their child wets the bed a night
after a birthday party. In our experience, the most commonly reported foods
that increase the chance of bedwetting are: carbonated, citrus, and
caffeinated juices; cola or chocolate, red dyes, and artificially colored
candy. Try eliminating each of these from your child's diet one by one and
see if the bedwetting stops.
http://www.askdrsears.com/html/7/T071200.asp
http://healthy-family.org/caryn/139
http://www.aafp.org/afp/990301ap/1205.html
-emiLy, mom to Delia (5.5) & Henry (2)
http://www.TheECstore.com
Sandra Dodd
-= It has
helped me realize that maybe Damon is not quite as potty trained as I
had
thought! He really does fine during the days. But he has had several
incidents of wetting the bed since I wrote the original post about how
he
was pretty much potty trained in a week. -=-
Too many words, words, words.
Wetting the bed isn't about potty training. It happens in their
sleep, sometimes YEARS after they've used a potty always in the daytime.
-=-I got used to him doing things much
earlier than his peers, so not using the potty was a shock to me when
all
the other kids seemed to be doing it.-=-
It's not the same kind of "skill" or awareness at all as walking,
though. It's internal organs doing their thing, and sleep patterns
doing their thing, and if you can't control it there's nothing to be
shocked about.
Thinking of him as "gifted" and "early" caused this problem, he
didn't. Please try not to label your kids in those ways if you can
avoid or resist it.
-=-A few days ago I woke up because Damon was crying hysterically and
running
around the room. He was running back and forth tapping Geoff and me and
crying. I knew he had to pee, but wasn't sure why he was crying. It
was only
a couple of hours after we had gone to bed, I had a hard time waking
up. I
carried him to the potty but he would not sit on it. He kicked and
screamed
and squirmed out of my arms and sat on the floor right in front of it
and
cried.-=-
He was sleep walking. You told him why his body woke up, but you
could easily have been wrong. It's better to let him figure out what
than for you to tell him.
-=- I tried to tell him that his body woke up because he had to pee, it
was a warning so he wouldn't wet the bed....-=-
If you want your kids to have a lot of faith in you, only say things
you're absolutely sure are true. "Maybe" would be true, but to talk
to someone who was asleep isn't good.
Marty was a sleep walker and would get panicky, so one of us would
take him back to bed and lie down with him. Sometimes he would pee if
he sort of propped him up and did the work for him; he wasn't awake.
But mostly he would wear diapers at night, and until he was nine.
They were less expensive than doing a load of laundry.
Sleep is important. Sleeping isn't for the purpose of "training"
kids to stay dry all night.
-=-I also want to add my husband asked last night why he was wearing a
pullup
to bed because he was a big boy now and using the potty. I said it was
his
choice, but I'd rather have him in a dry pullup than doing laundry every
day.-=-
Using the toilet in the day is a whole different deal. Tell your
husband that. Marty was nine when he quit needing the diapers. When
he was using small adult diapers, if it was still dry in the morning,
he would untape it carefully so he could use it again. Sleeping was
the priority, and peace.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
helped me realize that maybe Damon is not quite as potty trained as I
had
thought! He really does fine during the days. But he has had several
incidents of wetting the bed since I wrote the original post about how
he
was pretty much potty trained in a week. -=-
Too many words, words, words.
Wetting the bed isn't about potty training. It happens in their
sleep, sometimes YEARS after they've used a potty always in the daytime.
-=-I got used to him doing things much
earlier than his peers, so not using the potty was a shock to me when
all
the other kids seemed to be doing it.-=-
It's not the same kind of "skill" or awareness at all as walking,
though. It's internal organs doing their thing, and sleep patterns
doing their thing, and if you can't control it there's nothing to be
shocked about.
Thinking of him as "gifted" and "early" caused this problem, he
didn't. Please try not to label your kids in those ways if you can
avoid or resist it.
-=-A few days ago I woke up because Damon was crying hysterically and
running
around the room. He was running back and forth tapping Geoff and me and
crying. I knew he had to pee, but wasn't sure why he was crying. It
was only
a couple of hours after we had gone to bed, I had a hard time waking
up. I
carried him to the potty but he would not sit on it. He kicked and
screamed
and squirmed out of my arms and sat on the floor right in front of it
and
cried.-=-
He was sleep walking. You told him why his body woke up, but you
could easily have been wrong. It's better to let him figure out what
than for you to tell him.
-=- I tried to tell him that his body woke up because he had to pee, it
was a warning so he wouldn't wet the bed....-=-
If you want your kids to have a lot of faith in you, only say things
you're absolutely sure are true. "Maybe" would be true, but to talk
to someone who was asleep isn't good.
Marty was a sleep walker and would get panicky, so one of us would
take him back to bed and lie down with him. Sometimes he would pee if
he sort of propped him up and did the work for him; he wasn't awake.
But mostly he would wear diapers at night, and until he was nine.
They were less expensive than doing a load of laundry.
Sleep is important. Sleeping isn't for the purpose of "training"
kids to stay dry all night.
-=-I also want to add my husband asked last night why he was wearing a
pullup
to bed because he was a big boy now and using the potty. I said it was
his
choice, but I'd rather have him in a dry pullup than doing laundry every
day.-=-
Using the toilet in the day is a whole different deal. Tell your
husband that. Marty was nine when he quit needing the diapers. When
he was using small adult diapers, if it was still dry in the morning,
he would untape it carefully so he could use it again. Sleeping was
the priority, and peace.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
My husband Brian wet the bed all the way up into hos late teens.
My son was dry at night before he was dry during the day at about 2.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son was dry at night before he was dry during the day at about 2.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
Hayden's night wetting often happens on our sofa. We've discovered the value
of Bac-Out and sunshine ;) And this week I discovered the wonderful
launderability of our new sofa slip cover!
At 10.5, he's old hat at the routine and we've found one that seems to work
for all of us - he announces his accident and I clean it up.
I wring out (stomp on) the cushions with towels and soak them in diluted
Bac-Out (which I love, love, love, love, love!) and place them in as much
sunshine as I can. (sometimes in Oregon, it's a challenge!).
Because I've previously had episodes of assholery, g'nights and pads are out
of the question. For now, it's "kid is more important than the couch" and
someday, I'll have a pee-free sofa (and Bac-Out may go out of business!) and
a continued happy relationship with my son!
I've spoken often about the healing in my family because of my search for a
joyful partner perspective with bedwetting. My father, who often beat
bed-wetters in our home, has shared with Hayden about his own bed-wetting.
Dad & his sister both wet the bed until they were 11 & 13; regardless of the
beatings. He never told *me* that story -- he was comfortable with the
realization that Hayden will never be part of that shame cycle. One of my
proudest moments as both a mom and a daughter <3
It helps to remember that bladder control is *not* about cognitive ability,
it's about nervous system maturity in a constantly growing and changing
body! At some point, his bladder and brain and everything in between will
figger it all out... until then, what's his life gonna be like? This is one
of those lucky moments, where you can think, ponder, choose, *right now* how
you want to proceed with this issue.
Making it a non-issue is a good and wonderful step.
Quickly followed by securing waterproof crib mattress pads (I'd recommend at
least 3) and covering them in fun absorbant towels (pee pee pad tye dye
party?)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
of Bac-Out and sunshine ;) And this week I discovered the wonderful
launderability of our new sofa slip cover!
At 10.5, he's old hat at the routine and we've found one that seems to work
for all of us - he announces his accident and I clean it up.
I wring out (stomp on) the cushions with towels and soak them in diluted
Bac-Out (which I love, love, love, love, love!) and place them in as much
sunshine as I can. (sometimes in Oregon, it's a challenge!).
Because I've previously had episodes of assholery, g'nights and pads are out
of the question. For now, it's "kid is more important than the couch" and
someday, I'll have a pee-free sofa (and Bac-Out may go out of business!) and
a continued happy relationship with my son!
I've spoken often about the healing in my family because of my search for a
joyful partner perspective with bedwetting. My father, who often beat
bed-wetters in our home, has shared with Hayden about his own bed-wetting.
Dad & his sister both wet the bed until they were 11 & 13; regardless of the
beatings. He never told *me* that story -- he was comfortable with the
realization that Hayden will never be part of that shame cycle. One of my
proudest moments as both a mom and a daughter <3
It helps to remember that bladder control is *not* about cognitive ability,
it's about nervous system maturity in a constantly growing and changing
body! At some point, his bladder and brain and everything in between will
figger it all out... until then, what's his life gonna be like? This is one
of those lucky moments, where you can think, ponder, choose, *right now* how
you want to proceed with this issue.
Making it a non-issue is a good and wonderful step.
Quickly followed by securing waterproof crib mattress pads (I'd recommend at
least 3) and covering them in fun absorbant towels (pee pee pad tye dye
party?)
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 12:33 PM, Kim Zerbe <kim.zerbe@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you all for sharing your stories about night time accidents. It has
> helped me realize that maybe Damon is not quite as potty trained as I had
> thought! He really does fine during the days. But he has had several
> incidents of wetting the bed since I wrote the original post about how he
> was pretty much potty trained in a week.
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Diana, translate please:
-=-Because I've previously had episodes of assholery, g'nights and
pads are out
of the question.-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Because I've previously had episodes of assholery, g'nights and
pads are out
of the question.-=-
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
I wasn't always a mama who gets it. I don't even like to think about it.
I've not been the nicest mama Hayden coulda asked for :'(
He's the brunt and the trigger for my inner martyr; not nearly as much now
as when he was littler.
I had laundry woes, there was *so* much work, and it's *just me* -- ick,
it's tough to even think about! In the throes of that martyr period, I'd say
things like "fine, you'll just have to wear goodnites, then!" and I'd
grumble and whine about having to sit on pad on the sofa...
I saw in his face that he believed that I believed he was doing this on
purpose. It's been a long row to hoe, getting back to trusting that I do
indeed trust him.
And I work on trusting myself to be the mama he needs in that moment; martyr
be damned!
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
I've not been the nicest mama Hayden coulda asked for :'(
He's the brunt and the trigger for my inner martyr; not nearly as much now
as when he was littler.
I had laundry woes, there was *so* much work, and it's *just me* -- ick,
it's tough to even think about! In the throes of that martyr period, I'd say
things like "fine, you'll just have to wear goodnites, then!" and I'd
grumble and whine about having to sit on pad on the sofa...
I saw in his face that he believed that I believed he was doing this on
purpose. It's been a long row to hoe, getting back to trusting that I do
indeed trust him.
And I work on trusting myself to be the mama he needs in that moment; martyr
be damned!
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
hannahsashes.blogspot.com
dianas365.blogspot.com
On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
>
> Diana, translate please:
>
> -=-Because I've previously had episodes of assholery, g'nights and
> pads are out of the question.-=-
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
John and Amanda Slater
An easy way to take the stress out of bedtime accidents to to make the bed differently. Until very recently both my boys beds had a waterproof cover, a set of sheets, and then another waterproof cover and another set of sheets. Any sort of accident was easy to clean up. Just pull back the first set of sheets and waterproof cover, and the bed was clean and dry. Add a blanket and go back to sleep!
It made it much easier to be calm and reassuring in the middle of the night.
Amanda
Eli 8, Samuel 6
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It made it much easier to be calm and reassuring in the middle of the night.
Amanda
Eli 8, Samuel 6
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]