negotiating for kids
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/9/02 6:58:10 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< > The only thing I would have to disagree with is that six is too young
to be
is not at all in the realm of "He's six, and I'm willing to talk to the
coach/teacher for him, but he wants to do it himself."
That parent wasn't expecting that six was old enough, but was willing to let
a child call the exception.
A six year old, despite our "ship them off to school" tradition, is very
young and shouldn't have to be negotiating him own safety and interpersonal
life UNLESS he himself really wants to.
That's the point I was trying to make, and the defenses and examples are
going away from that (which is fine, expected, etc., but I wanted to point at
the technical difference).
Sandra
<< > The only thing I would have to disagree with is that six is too young
to be
> expected to deal with an adult directly. >>"He's six, he's old enough to deal with adults on his own"
is not at all in the realm of "He's six, and I'm willing to talk to the
coach/teacher for him, but he wants to do it himself."
That parent wasn't expecting that six was old enough, but was willing to let
a child call the exception.
A six year old, despite our "ship them off to school" tradition, is very
young and shouldn't have to be negotiating him own safety and interpersonal
life UNLESS he himself really wants to.
That's the point I was trying to make, and the defenses and examples are
going away from that (which is fine, expected, etc., but I wanted to point at
the technical difference).
Sandra
[email protected]
On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:47:26 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
Dar
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>I didn't say this. Dawn did, I think.
> In a message dated 2/9/02 6:58:10 PM, freeform@... writes:
> << > The only thing I would have to disagree with is that six is too
> young to be
> > expected to deal with an adult directly. >>
Dar
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In a message dated 2/10/02 2:14:47 PM, freeform@... writes:
<< On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:47:26 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
Dar >>
It was someone quoting someone already--sorry I just let my automatic
responder-thang go without deleting or looking back to see who originally
said what. It more means what post I got it from than who first put those
words together. Nothing meant by it. I wasn't even looking at names.
Sandra
<< On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:47:26 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
>I didn't say this. Dawn did, I think.
> In a message dated 2/9/02 6:58:10 PM, freeform@... writes:
> << > The only thing I would have to disagree with is that six is too
> young to be
> > expected to deal with an adult directly. >>
Dar >>
It was someone quoting someone already--sorry I just let my automatic
responder-thang go without deleting or looking back to see who originally
said what. It more means what post I got it from than who first put those
words together. Nothing meant by it. I wasn't even looking at names.
Sandra
[email protected]
Dawn wrote this - it is just a bit of the overall point she was making and
I'm not really so much responding to the particular situation she brought up
but starting from what she said in this bit and from it I'm moving on to
another issue which it made me think about......
booklet <G>.
Equal is such a tricky word -- it is usually assumed by the user that
everybody knows what they mean by it - but that is often not the case. I
don't know, in this case, what it means to Dawn. A 6 yo and and adult teacher
are equal in what ways? There are many ways they are clearly not equal, of
course, and one of those would be physical size and another would be the
"authority" typically vested in them by the rest of society. These may matter
in some circumstances and not in others. If a 6 yo knows all about some topic
and a 40 yo knows little about it, then they are once again not equal in terms
of knowledge about that topic and in this example the 6 yo is more of an
authority. It happens all the time in unschooling circles - that kids are
actually given recognition of such expertise that they have.
But I'm pretty sure that Dawn didn't mean "equal" in any of these senses --
maybe just in terms of being equally worthy human beings? Something more
along those lines?
There were times when my kids were young that they themselves handled
uncomfortable situations with adults/teachers/leaders/etc. and times that I
wouldn't have let them handle it alone because I didn't think they understood
what they were getting themselves into. I wouldn't let them handle it if I
thought the adult would become physically or verbally abusive, for example.
But - that is parenting judgement - knowing the situation and our own kids
and so on. I don't see it as an "unschooling" issue at all - unless someone
wants to argue that unschooling means always leaving kids to deal with stuff
on their own based on the principle that kids are "equal" to adults. But I've
never heard any unschoolers seriously argue that parents shouldn't act as
responsible parents.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm not really so much responding to the particular situation she brought up
but starting from what she said in this bit and from it I'm moving on to
another issue which it made me think about......
> I said the sentence below, but there was more to it and it has been snipped.Who says we're all equal - I didn't see that in my unschooling instruction
> My question was why use age as a difference? If as unschoolers it's
> advocated that we are all equal what does the teachers age have to do with
> my six year old?
booklet <G>.
Equal is such a tricky word -- it is usually assumed by the user that
everybody knows what they mean by it - but that is often not the case. I
don't know, in this case, what it means to Dawn. A 6 yo and and adult teacher
are equal in what ways? There are many ways they are clearly not equal, of
course, and one of those would be physical size and another would be the
"authority" typically vested in them by the rest of society. These may matter
in some circumstances and not in others. If a 6 yo knows all about some topic
and a 40 yo knows little about it, then they are once again not equal in terms
of knowledge about that topic and in this example the 6 yo is more of an
authority. It happens all the time in unschooling circles - that kids are
actually given recognition of such expertise that they have.
But I'm pretty sure that Dawn didn't mean "equal" in any of these senses --
maybe just in terms of being equally worthy human beings? Something more
along those lines?
There were times when my kids were young that they themselves handled
uncomfortable situations with adults/teachers/leaders/etc. and times that I
wouldn't have let them handle it alone because I didn't think they understood
what they were getting themselves into. I wouldn't let them handle it if I
thought the adult would become physically or verbally abusive, for example.
But - that is parenting judgement - knowing the situation and our own kids
and so on. I don't see it as an "unschooling" issue at all - unless someone
wants to argue that unschooling means always leaving kids to deal with stuff
on their own based on the principle that kids are "equal" to adults. But I've
never heard any unschoolers seriously argue that parents shouldn't act as
responsible parents.
--pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]