Sandra Dodd

(message brought to the list in an anonymous way)

Sandra, I want to put the following AIM chat that my brother wrote to
me on the … group for advice how and if i should respond to him…

This came as a big shock to me because he has always been on my side
with homeschooling. I guess my parents' opinions got to him. This is
my younger brother whom is living with my parents,no job yet.

I was there today visiting and everything was cool. I came home, we
started chatting and this is what he kept writing. I did not respond.
I clicked out and closed AIM. What do you think i should do?

It is very insulting as you can see. If you want to put it on the
list, it will help me..thanks!

[the brother] (5:19:44 PM): do you really think Lukas as a fair sjot
at getting a good education from you and keeping up with the level the
other kids are gonna maintain?

[the brother](5:20:16 PM): what about all the details that he should
learn that we don't remember anymore

[the brother](5:20:34 PM): like scientific stuff anf algebra,
trigonometry

[the brother](5:20:59 PM): all the complicated hard stuff that we
didn't even learn

[the brother](5:21:10 PM): or use for all these years and forgot

[the brother](5:21:49 PM): I think he should go to school and then
have a chance to go to college so he doesn't have to work like a
donkey when he's a man

[the brother](5:22:35 PM): it's not fair to him to have to work like a
mexican when he is smart and has the potential to be something way
better

[the brother](5:22:56 PM): I kow I could never teach a kid all the
things they should learn these days

[the brother](5:23:10 PM): I 'm not intelligent enough to either

[the brother](5:23:37 PM): I think he is being deprived in a way

[the brother](5:23:55 PM): i don't mean to get you angry but just want
you to know how we all feel

[the brother](5:24:10 PM): so please don't be hurt nd upset with me

[the brother](5:24:21 PM): i like being your friend as well as brother

[the brother](5:24:55 PM): If could go get a better education and was
young enough to I would do it in a hot minute

[the brother](5:25:24 PM): talk to me heather come on the truth is the
truth

[the brother](5:25:45 PM): he is getting to the age where his
education is getting more important

[the brother](5:26:16 PM): do you really think he will get beat up or
abused by a teacher?

[the brother](5:26:38 PM): or are you afraid to let him out of your
sight pretty much

[the brother](5:27:14 PM): you are being to proyective...the world is
gonna be a big surprise and a shock to him when he gets out on his own
someday

[the brother](5:28:09 PM): he is gonna be disappointed that he works
at taco bell or something really lame like some of the jobs i've had
to do

[the brother](5:28:42 PM): he could get a job in the aerospace field
ot be a cop fireman whatever

[the brother](5:29:36 PM): it would be worth being called a few names
or picked on and learn how to be a little tough instead of being home
on your hands all day everyday until he grows up

[the brother](5:30:34 PM): don't you want to be able to clean the
house do laundry and have some time for yourself without having to
think about what he's doing every second?

[the brother](5:31:04 PM): you are even depriving yourself of a normal
likfe in a way

[the brother](5:31:15 PM): your not gonna talk now?

[the brother](5:31:27 PM): I will keep going if you don't

[the brother](5:31:42 PM): you need to hear these things i believe

[the brother](5:31:56 PM): it's not to hurt anyone

[the brother](5:32:34 PM): I really want to see him be a siccess and
be happy with his education level and his job when he's grown up

[the brother](5:32:41 PM): success

======================================================

Note from Sandra: When I read that I assumed the brother was maybe 22
years old. Turns out he's in his late 30's and childless, living at
home with his parents, and was recently in legal trouble for something
drug-related. The sister he's haranguing here is older than he is,
and is the one who took the collect calls from him when he was in jail
and relayed messages to their parents.

It does shed a different light on it. Not a better light…

Ideas?

I'm really sorry I didn't get to this Friday. All day Saturday I was
gone and today we had company and I was tired, and kept forgetting to
check my to-do lists and e-mail. Sorry.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

Two things....
On the transcript I did mean to change the name of the boy, but there
are several "Lukas" moms, so if you know which one it is keep it to
yourself, and if you don't know, just read it for the principles and
ideas. Sorry I forgot to replace it, though.

There's a chat tomorrow afternoon (north american afternoon) about
relatives of unschoolers.
http://sandradodd.com/room
the password is goodidea
If you forget the password, don't write to this list and ask for it,
click the link at the top of the page which goes to a page that has
the password on it.


Sandra

Pam Sorooshian

Just sounds like same old worries that lots of relatives have. I
wouldn't get too hurt or insulted, it is understandable ignorance
talking. Instead, tell him you can understand why he'd worry, and that
you're appreciative that he cares enough to tell you what he really
thinks, but that you've considered all those same issues and you feel
pretty confident that what you're doing will work. You could take the
concerns one at a time and respond, if you want to, or you could dismiss
them all at once and say, "We're just going to do this as long as it
works for us."

-pam

On 5/31/2009 7:27 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> This came as a big shock to me because he has always been on my side
> with homeschooling. I guess my parents' opinions got to him. This is
> my younger brother whom is living with my parents,no job yet.
>
> I was there today visiting and everything was cool. I came home, we
> started chatting and this is what he kept writing. I did not respond.
> I clicked out and closed AIM. What do you think i should do?
>
> It is very insulting as you can see. If you want to put it on the
> list, it will help me..thanks!
>
>

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<<Just sounds like same old worries that lots of relatives have. I
> wouldn't get too hurt or insulted, it is understandable ignorance>>>

Given Sandra's additional background information...to me the whole thing
didn't sound like regular ignorance. It sounded like projection. It sounded
like he is (perhaps unwittingly) expressing his own fears and resentments -
shame about his own failures and difficulties, his resentments at having
been bullied, his feelings of low self-worth and stupidity about the masses
of stuff he has forgotten, maybe guilt at what he has imposed on his
family - all wrapped up in what might be genuine affection for his sister
and nephew.

<<<<you could dismiss
> them all at once and say, "We're just going to do this as long as it
> works for us.">>>>

Contrary to his belief, it is not her need to hear this, but evidently his
need to express it. There is so little logic here that I'm all for Pam's
last line.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com

[email protected]

Being as the brother has always been on her side and the brother is now
living at his parents' house who hasn't been on her side, I would definitely
check to make sure the message *was* from the brother and not a parent who
happened upon his open screenname/account (or maybe his password isn't
hidden or is shared) and decided to speak "through" the brother, hoping it
would carry more weight, *before* I decided on any course of action. I know that
my personal AIM, Yahoo and Google IM accounts all sign on whenever anyone
signs on at this computer-and they could all be under different names
(they're not, currently, but they could be) and they all have the password
"remembered", so it would be easy for anyone to IM under my name.

Peace,
De
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
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eExcfooterNO62)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

[the brother](5:20:16 PM): what about all the details that he should
learn that we don't remember anymore

[the brother](5:20:34 PM): like scientific stuff anf algebra,
trigonometry

[the brother](5:20:59 PM): all the complicated hard stuff that we
didn't even learn

[the brother](5:21:10 PM): or use for all these years and forgot


This would be funny if he wasn't serious.
The argument doesn't make sense. Send your child to school to learn stuff that he won't remember, learn stuff you'll never use and to not learn those complicated things that your brother thought he should have learned while he was in school but didn't.
For me this is an argument against sending my child to school.
Meg










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On May 31, 2009, at 10:27 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> I was there today visiting and everything was cool. I came home, we
> started chatting and this is what he kept writing. I did not respond.
> I clicked out and closed AIM. What do you think i should do?
>
> It is very insulting as you can see. If you want to put it on the
> list, it will help me..thanks!

It will probably help calm you down if you look at it through his
eyes. Since he believes what he's writing about unschooling, he has a
right to be scared and baffled and not thinking clearly! (And, I
agree, he's doing some projecting of himself.)

Maybe you could say that. Like:

"If that's what you believe unschooling leads to, I understand why
you'd be worried and scared for Lukas. But I'm sad that you think I
care that little about my son or that I'm so clueless that I would
adopt such a harmful lifestyle. Wouldn't it make more sense that
those who haven't read about unschooling have drawn wrong conclusions
than that I would risk my child's life and future on something that
sounds that dangerous?

"I know, not just believe, that learning is far more effective
through doing than through sitting in a classroom learning things
only to forget them! I want Lukas to spend his time more effectively
learning what's meaningful to him, learning through his interests and
passions. Despite what a world full of people erroneously believe, it
doesn't take 12 years of school to get into college. Unschoolers do
go to college and do just fine there. And they go to college for the
right reasons: because they want to learn what the college offers,
not because it's another set of hoops to jump through to get some job
that will pay the mortgage.

"It's never to late to be what you want to be. It's harder as an
adult, yes. As adults we're surrounded by people who will tell us
it's too much trouble. We may even have decided they're right. But
it's a lot easier to achieve something when you decide you can than
when you decide you can't."

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

My first thought was that it was a hot-headed 22 year old, possibly
drunk or stoned. When I inquired as to age, and got the details of
drug related crime, I thought even more likely it was the ramblings of
someone under the influence of something chemical, and I agree with
Robyn that it's probably an angst/guilt explosion misdirected.

And it's unlikely that a childless unemployed 30-something will have
examined his own schooling for flaws. If he's bought the general
"wisdom" of it all, if he was unhappy it was his fault, and if he's
grown up frustrated and worrisome, it's his fault. So if he didn't
do better WITH the supposed-to-be-magical-guarantee education, he's
afraid his nephew will be MORE unemployed and MORE criminally
involved, maybe.

Maybe what his sister could do would be to write and point some of
that out lightly, that school is no guarantee, and in fact does a lot
of damage to people's self-image and desire to learn and do and be.
Maybe she could name some particular people they both know who did
well without college, or who have college and aren't doing well, and
if the factors have to do with drugs and alcohol, perhaps point out
that many people first encounter drugs and alcoholic binges in school.

Sandra

Sandra Dodd

-=-Being as the brother has always been on her side and the brother is
now
living at his parents' house who hasn't been on her side, I would
definitely
check to make sure the message *was* from the brother and not a parent
who
happened upon his open screenname/account (or maybe his password isn't
hidden or is shared) and decided to speak "through" the brother,
hoping it
would carry more weight, *before* I decided on any course of action. -=-

OH! Another possible option then in addressing him. If he was drunk,
he might not even remember what was written.

A couple of times when someone I know and liked posted something
HORRIBLE (not the same person both times, and not about unschooling;
elsewhere), I knew it was that person, but to cover for it and help
them save face and backtrack, I posted something like "John, someone
must have used your computer when you weren't home and posted this
horrible thing. You need to be more careful logging off at
night." ...or some such.

It made it both lighter and more serious, but didn't put the harangue
on the (possibly drunk or too tired) poster.

Maybe the sister could say "It seems mom is using your AIM, because
you're usually more supportive and thoughtful."

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-The argument doesn't make sense. Send your child to school to learn
stuff that he won't remember, learn stuff you'll never use and to not
learn those complicated things that your brother thought he should
have learned while he was in school but didn't.
For me this is an argument against sending my child to school.-=-

Oh! Sister of maybe-drunk guy, add that to your response!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cally

I came to this list 3 or4 years ago in the same position.  In addition to the arguments of an entire family of school teachers and college professors, unfortunately going through a divorce with an angry spouse I was faced with a judge who hated me, hated homeschooling and of course knew nothing about it.

Nothing has changed.  My 2 younger sibs are two highly paid executives for large companies, and although I have provided my folks with enough information on the successes of unschooled children and people, they continue to respond as if they have heard nothing.  I recently re-set boundaries with my younger sister (of 8 years) because she was calling my eldest to counsel her so she wouldn't be a bum on the street without her HS diploma or GED. I have also received the very same call (lol) from my brother!!!

What HAS changed is how I respond to them.   It has taken me 4 years to stop reacting emotionally to them.  It has been hard.  I used to feel so angry, as if I was the only one going through this. My focus instead of being on my children was removed from them and wasted energy.

There will always be your brother or someone else unable to see that unschooling is the best way for you and the way you THE PARENT (capitalized to emphasize the due respect that comes with the title)  has chosen  to educate your children.  That is enough. 

That being said I ditto all the wonderful advice that has been given to you by those in this list. 
Take a deep breath!!

Carole in CT  
 
 
"Whatever you believe you can do or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power, and magic to it."
 
   Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
 B: 1749 AD D: 1832 AD   German Dramatist, Novelist, Painter, Poet, Writer




________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cally

 




My first thought was that it was a hot-headed 22 year old, possibly
drunk or stoned. When I inquired as to age, and got the details of
drug related crime, I thought even more likely it was the ramblings of
someone under the influence of something chemical, and I agree with
Robyn that it's probably an angst/guilt explosion misdirected.

 
 
 
.Unfortunately I had almost the identical conversation with my "well educated" "successful""quote- happy" brother.  He heard nothing.   !!!???  Conversation over.
 
Carole
________________________________




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
.Unfortunately I had almost the identical conversation with my "well
educated" "successful""quote- happy" brother. He heard
nothing. !!!??? Conversation over.
-=-

One thing I've seen with addicts I've known personally is that the
substance (alcohol in my mom's case, plain cheap beer) seems to take
over in such a way that the alcohol or alcoholism protects itself from
any efforts of its direct or indirect victims to stop it. THAT has
seemed the main aspect of addiction in what I've seen, that like an
unfriendly alien being that's being hosted by a now-helpless human
body, it's willing to kill its host before it will let itself die.

Perhaps school is addicting in that way. Perhaps schooling comes with
all the defenses and justifications to keep people from seeing clearly
until they die, so that school can survive. The survival of the
students is nowhere NEAR the top of the list, not only in my school-as-
parasitical-alien analogy, but in the view of real, earthly school
boards. They will defend the jobs of employees of the schools
(including themselves) above the good of some nameless, replaceable
seven year old boy or girl.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Wooton

On Jun 1, 2009, at 11:29 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> -=-
> .Unfortunately I had almost the identical conversation with my "well
> educated" "successful""quote- happy" brother. He heard
> nothing. !!!??? Conversation over.
> -=-
>
> One thing I've seen with addicts I've known personally is that the
> substance (alcohol in my mom's case, plain cheap beer) seems to take
> over in such a way that the alcohol or alcoholism protects itself from
> any efforts of its direct or indirect victims to stop it. THAT has
> seemed the main aspect of addiction in what I've seen, that like an
> unfriendly alien being that's being hosted by a now-helpless human
> body, it's willing to kill its host before it will let itself die.
>
> Perhaps school is addicting in that way. Perhaps schooling comes with
> all the defenses and justifications to keep people from seeing clearly
> until they die, so that school can survive. The survival of the
> students is nowhere NEAR the top of the list, not only in my school-
> as-
> parasitical-alien analogy, but in the view of real, earthly school
> boards. They will defend the jobs of employees of the schools
> (including themselves) above the good of some nameless, replaceable
> seven year old boy or girl.
>

I've often thought that those students and graduates who defend what
was done to them suffer a kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

Nancy

Miriam Mason

> I've often thought that those students and graduates who defend what
> was done to them suffer a kind of Stockholm Syndrome.


Was watching Bill Maher the other month and he had a British guest on
(sorry, can't recall the name) who said one thing that stuck deep in
my craw -- he said "Kids in England get sent to a boarding school
where they are pee'd on in the showers every day, and then they send
their kids to the same school because they think it builds character."

Anguish and fear may build character -- what kind of character?
Seems to answer a lot of questions for me, anyway.

Mim

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cally

From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]

Perhaps school is addicting in that way. Perhaps schooling comes with
all the defenses and justifications to keep people from seeing clearly
until they die, so that school can survive. The survival of the
students is nowhere NEAR the top of the list, not only in my school-as-
parasitical- alien analogy, but in the view of real, earthly school
boards. They will defend the jobs of employees of the schools
(including themselves) above the good of some nameless, replaceable
seven year old boy or girl.


What an interesting thought.  My brother at the time, had his children in the same preschool as Robin Williams and Michelle Pfeiffer.  He boasted that his son was exposed to and doing well in Physics. 
 
He is truly covering feelings about his education.  Because of his undiagnosed dyslexia years ago, he was told he was stupid and my mother was told that he should be placed in an institution because he couldn't read.  After years of tutoring and an expensive private school, he discovered he had an extremely high IQ.

My children were treated so badly in school. For 8 years, the school refused to meet my daughter's needs,despite a lawyer, etc.  My son was ridiculed and called stupid by his teacher in front of the class.   My brother's response was of course that another teacher was the answer.  He truly sounded like a broken record.  Running like a race horse with blinders on.  Not unlike an addict, he was incapable of seeing or visualizing any way but the way he has chosen for himself and his children. 


"Whatever you believe you can do or dream you can, begin it.
Boldness has genius, power, and magic to it."
 
   Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
 B: 1749 AD D: 1832 AD   German Dramatist, Novelist, Painter, Poet, Writer




________________________________
Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 2:29:43 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] interesting problem with a relative





-=-
.Unfortunately I had almost the identical conversation with my "well
educated" "successful" "quote- happy" brother. He heard
nothing. !!!??? Conversation over.
-=-

One thing I've seen with addicts I've known personally is that the
substance (alcohol in my mom's case, plain cheap beer) seems to take
over in such a way that the alcohol or alcoholism protects itself from
any efforts of its direct or indirect victims to stop it. THAT has
seemed the main aspect of addiction in what I've seen, that like an
unfriendly alien being that's being hosted by a now-helpless human
body, it's willing to kill its host before it will let itself die.


Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> I've often thought that those students and graduates who defend what
> was done to them suffer a kind of Stockholm Syndrome.
>


I've found that very often the now adults, who disliked school the most
as kids, are the ones holding that school ideal on the altar. My sister
is like this. School didn't serve her well at all, yet she homeschools
with a very strict curriculum. So, she didn't like the social aspect of
school and recognized that enough to keep her kids home.

Just the other day my sister wrote this on her facebook... "Why is it
that when I drive by schools, I feel utterly depressed, especially when
I see chairs all set up for a graduation ceremony? I guess because my
only happy memories from school include spray-painting the outside of
the building, skipping, and my own graduation day when I could say
good-bye forever."

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jun 2, 2009, at 10:48 AM, Jenny C wrote:

> I've found that very often the now adults, who disliked school the
> most
> as kids, are the ones holding that school ideal on the altar.

Maybe it depends what kind of suffering they went through. Those who
recognized the bogusness of school and marked their time are probably
good candidates for getting unschooling quickly. Those who were made
to feel it was their fault for not succeeding, probably have
internalized that the pain must be important otherwise the suffering
they did meant nothing. I'd think it would be hard for someone like
that to turn their back on school.

Joyce

Jenny C

> Maybe it depends what kind of suffering they went through. Those who
> recognized the bogusness of school and marked their time are probably
> good candidates for getting unschooling quickly. Those who were made
> to feel it was their fault for not succeeding, probably have
> internalized that the pain must be important otherwise the suffering
> they did meant nothing. I'd think it would be hard for someone like
> that to turn their back on school.


Oh Jeez Joyce, you keep doing this to me lately! I was thinking the
exact same thing and you went and wrote it when I couldn't get the words
out right! I put something on my blog that you wrote about controlling
kids because you said it so well and it was exactly what I was thinking
but couldn't get down and out of my head! Here's the link to my blog
<http://jenniferstar.blogspot.com/>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Oh Jeez Joyce, you keep doing this to me lately! I was thinking the
exact same thing and you went and wrote it when I couldn't get the words
out right!-=-

Don't think of it as something she's doing TO you, but something she's
doing FOR you (for all of us!).

Thanks again, Joyce, for being awesome.

(And another reminder to anyone else who thinks Joyce is wonderful to
consider coming to SUSS, January 2010.)
http://santafeunschoolingsymposium.blogspot.com/

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> Don't think of it as something she's doing TO you, but something she's
> doing FOR you (for all of us!).
>
> Thanks again, Joyce, for being awesome.
>


Yes, exactly! I thought about that after I wrote it, but there isn't a
way to go and edit after you post, so I left there and figured if anyone
called me on it, then, I'm ok with that, since I'd already called myself
on it!

Thanks for being awesome Joyce!

Joyce Fetteroll

On Jun 2, 2009, at 11:43 AM, Jenny C wrote:

> Oh Jeez Joyce, you keep doing this to me lately! I was thinking the
> exact same thing and you went and wrote it when I couldn't get the
> words
> out right!

Glad I could help! :-)

Several times over the years I've spent 3 pages trying to clarify
something and someone else will say the same thing in 3 sentences.
It's mind blowing. And cool :-)

> I put something on my blog that you wrote about controlling
> kids because you said it so well and it was exactly what I was
> thinking
> but couldn't get down and out of my head! Here's the link to my blog

I saw your mention but the thread (at Radical Unschoolers Network) is
such a mess I couldn't reply directly to your post and let you know
it was perfectly fine :-)

I'm not sure if people reading through the thread will find it more
helpful or confusing.

(It's Day four of no dvd restrictions- and I am struggling:
http://familyrun.ning.com/forum/topics/day-four-of-no-dvd
if anyone's curious.)

I'm not a fan boards with the branching conversations. It sounds good
in theory, but it's hard to follow.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I'm not sure if people reading through the thread will find it more
helpful or confusing.

-=-(It's Day four of no dvd restrictions- and I am struggling:
http://familyrun.ning.com/forum/topics/day-four-of-no-dvd
if anyone's curious.)

-=-I'm not a fan boards with the branching conversations. It sounds good
in theory, but it's hard to follow.-=-

I do love message boards. I took on unschooling.info hoping to revive
it, but it's losing old threads mysteriously, and there are dozens,
sometimes 100, spam messages a day to be deleted or left there. It's
not going to survive as and where it is.

The NING sites are okay, but for the social aspect, Facebook and
Myspace are better, and unschoolers can still keep in contact with
each other quickly and easily with those, or Twitter.

I want to add a message board to my site, but I don't know how and I
don't have the time to learn, this season. If there's someone here
with big confidence in that area, I would love for someone to just set
that up for me. I'm on a yahoo small businesses site, and there's a
whole SQL section that's a big mystery to me, but apparently is the
place and tool for plugging in a message board.

I agree with joyce that the "threaded" message boards are more
confusing than not. I'd rather have one like the forum at
unschooling.info, where the topic goes in one direction until it comes
to a natural end, or can be stirred up again years later. I've
heard, though, that Snitz forums have problems and no tech support/
advice directly.

I don't mind discussing this here (with apologies to those for whom
it's total gibberish), because it would be a good resource for people
on this list, and a place to put the best topics where they're easily
searchable without joining a whole list. And some of the people here
might prefer to check a message board once a day rather than have a
flood of e-mails about things they don't have time for.

Sandra





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> I'm not a fan boards with the branching conversations. It sounds good
> in theory, but it's hard to follow.
>


If it showed the branching and threading, it would be fine. What I
dislike is that you can only see what's been posted last and then once
there, you'd have to go through the posts to see if there is anything
else new since the last time you checked. If the whole convo gets
really really long like it did with the consensual living thread, I stop
checking because it gets to overwhelming for me to look through almost a
hundred postings.

Perhaps I don't know how to follow things right on the ning site.
Perhaps I'm missing something! What I like about yahoo groups is that
you can see date and time and it's like an outline format and it's
threaded.

What I liked about the unschooling dot com boards, was the same thing
that I liked about unschooling dot info. There were subjects and then
sub subjects and whole threads that you could see. What would make a
site like ning better for me, is to have listed how many new posts there
are for each new day, so you know what you are looking for.

Jenny C

And some of the people here
> might prefer to check a message board once a day rather than have a
> flood of e-mails about things they don't have time for.
>


I already replied to Joyce's message about my like and dislike of
various message boards and forums.

I don't have my yahoo groups messages go to my email. I check online at
the yahoo groups sites to see new messages. I am on email for the yahoo
group announcement thing, but only because I don't get several messages
a day.

Pam Sorooshian

On 6/3/2009 4:16 AM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
> I'm not a fan boards with the branching conversations. It sounds good
> in theory, but it's hard to follow.
>
>

I agree. I'm frustrated with the way people respond to things said way
earlier instead of the responses just being added at the end of the
whole conversation. But - I keep trying and then just drift away because
I'm slightly confused and never feel quite like I'm able to follow or
respond appropriately. Some people seem to really like it that way,
though. I keep feeling like I'm missing something.

-pam

MrsStranahan

I did a little searching and is yahoo still offering message board set ups?
I found something that said they did not. Instead of a message board yahoo
suggests using a guest book.
I would wait for Google Wave to come out later this year rather than set up
a traditional message board.

You could start a wave on a topic on it's on page like you do now .. and
people can add to it like they would on a message board except better.
Photos, videos, maps can be added to a wave by dragging and dropping. Waves
can be embedded on blogs and social networking sites. There's a way to add
games to the wave, too.

It solves the messy branching problems with it's Playback feature. If
someone comes in late to wave and wants to see the original text they can
hit the playback button and the messages will be played back starting with
the original. Or you can look for waves from specific contributors instead
of trying to weed through a big thread.

It's collaborative content, like a message board. Or it can be a
conversation like twitter and facebook. But it's not separate like each of
those things.

Really this is going to be so cool I am not doing it justice in trying to
explain what it is. Here's a ten minute video if anyone wants to geek out
for that long - http://tr.im/njvq

Lauren

On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 8:49 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

>
>
> -=-I'm not sure if people reading through the thread will find it more
> helpful or confusing.
>
> -=-(It's Day four of no dvd restrictions- and I am struggling:
> http://familyrun.ning.com/forum/topics/day-four-of-no-dvd
> if anyone's curious.)
>
> -=-I'm not a fan boards with the branching conversations. It sounds good
> in theory, but it's hard to follow.-=-
>
> I do love message boards. I took on unschooling.info hoping to revive
> it, but it's losing old threads mysteriously, and there are dozens,
> sometimes 100, spam messages a day to be deleted or left there. It's
> not going to survive as and where it is.
>
> The NING sites are okay, but for the social aspect, Facebook and
> Myspace are better, and unschoolers can still keep in contact with
> each other quickly and easily with those, or Twitter.
>
> I want to add a message board to my site, but I don't know how and I
> don't have the time to learn, this season. If there's someone here
> with big confidence in that area, I would love for someone to just set
> that up for me. I'm on a yahoo small businesses site, and there's a
> whole SQL section that's a big mystery to me, but apparently is the
> place and tool for plugging in a message board.
>
> I agree with joyce that the "threaded" message boards are more
> confusing than not. I'd rather have one like the forum at
> unschooling.info, where the topic goes in one direction until it comes
> to a natural end, or can be stirred up again years later. I've
> heard, though, that Snitz forums have problems and no tech support/
> advice directly.
>
> I don't mind discussing this here (with apologies to those for whom
> it's total gibberish), because it would be a good resource for people
> on this list, and a place to put the best topics where they're easily
> searchable without joining a whole list. And some of the people here
> might prefer to check a message board once a day rather than have a
> flood of e-mails about things they don't have time for.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Waves
can be embedded on blogs and social networking sites-=-

That might work then, if I could put them on webpages and have a
directory to those pages. Thanks!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-
That might work then, if I could put them on webpages and have a
directory to those pages. Thanks!-=-

It might be good for comments, but not for a message board, it seems,
but it's sure COOL!!!

Would the initiator be able to delete it? Or even his or her own
comments? All these things could make it less valuable. We need to
be able to edit out spam or really bad ideas or abusive nonsense.
Still.... it's got to be useful for things we do about unschooling,
and if it exists by the time we have the SUSS get-together, that might
be a way to keep in touch between condos or wherever between symposium
sessions.

So I'd still like to have a message board, although Holly and I are
watching this abridged Google Wave presentation, and it's cool.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]