Torn about advice/support
Laureen
Heya!
My thinking is thoroughly kinked here, and I need some help.
An old friend of mine, S, (male) has a 12 year old son, J. I've known
J since he was tiny, and he is a brilliant, sensitive, imaginative,
really really interesting kid. And at this moment in time, he's in
Juvenile Hall.
My friend is married to J's mother, who is... well, she's a piece of
work. About 6 years ago, she decided she needed to find herself,
ditched S and J, and moved across the country for a year. When she
came back (because S felt it was important to stay married to his
son's mother), she "reclaimed" the spectacularly gorgeous game room S
put together for J, as her "sewing room". I mean, painted over murals,
ripped up carpet, the works. Totally self-absorbed and bombastic
woman.
Before J landed in Juvie, S was going to bring him up here for a visit
with my husband (whom J adores) and I, to talk about his future. S and
I talk a lot, and he knows my opinion of formal education, public
school in the area we live in, and that I think that especially for
kids whose inner life is as important as their outer, having more time
and space to really think things through might be really good for J.
My friend is ready to dump his job, and stay home and be with J. He
feels that he let his mother run the parenting and she's done an
abysmal job of being there for J and supporting J, and he's decided to
take over. This will almost certainly end up in divorce.
So here's my question. With a kid that's stepped over the line from
"at risk" to "in Juvie", do you think it'd be OK to support/encourage
unschooling? I know that "married" carries a lot of weight, but in
this situation, that's not contributing substantively to J's
development or environment. Divorce would get him the support he needs
from his dad, but trust is already shot to pieces, and I have no idea
if it'd be possible to get it back in time. Course, some trust would
be better than none (which is where it seems to be now).
I keep thinking myself into circles. WWYD?
--
~~L!
s/v Excellent Adventure
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
My thinking is thoroughly kinked here, and I need some help.
An old friend of mine, S, (male) has a 12 year old son, J. I've known
J since he was tiny, and he is a brilliant, sensitive, imaginative,
really really interesting kid. And at this moment in time, he's in
Juvenile Hall.
My friend is married to J's mother, who is... well, she's a piece of
work. About 6 years ago, she decided she needed to find herself,
ditched S and J, and moved across the country for a year. When she
came back (because S felt it was important to stay married to his
son's mother), she "reclaimed" the spectacularly gorgeous game room S
put together for J, as her "sewing room". I mean, painted over murals,
ripped up carpet, the works. Totally self-absorbed and bombastic
woman.
Before J landed in Juvie, S was going to bring him up here for a visit
with my husband (whom J adores) and I, to talk about his future. S and
I talk a lot, and he knows my opinion of formal education, public
school in the area we live in, and that I think that especially for
kids whose inner life is as important as their outer, having more time
and space to really think things through might be really good for J.
My friend is ready to dump his job, and stay home and be with J. He
feels that he let his mother run the parenting and she's done an
abysmal job of being there for J and supporting J, and he's decided to
take over. This will almost certainly end up in divorce.
So here's my question. With a kid that's stepped over the line from
"at risk" to "in Juvie", do you think it'd be OK to support/encourage
unschooling? I know that "married" carries a lot of weight, but in
this situation, that's not contributing substantively to J's
development or environment. Divorce would get him the support he needs
from his dad, but trust is already shot to pieces, and I have no idea
if it'd be possible to get it back in time. Course, some trust would
be better than none (which is where it seems to be now).
I keep thinking myself into circles. WWYD?
--
~~L!
s/v Excellent Adventure
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
Sandra Dodd
-=-Divorce would get him the support he needs
from his dad, but trust is already shot to pieces, and I have no idea
if it'd be possible to get it back in time.-=-
He's 12, so that's six years out from him being "past school age."
What state they're in might matter, or might not. (Depends on the
state, I mean. <g>)
IF the dad is willing to have a divorce under terms that include
having the mother declared unfit so that he has sole custody and she
has visitation only supervised or limited somehow, and IF the dad can
afford to stay home or do something with J, perhaps, that brings in
income (after a while, when trust and the need for spending money
return), it could work.
If J's already needy of things to replace people, it might be a rough
go for the dad to consider going jobless (if he was in juvie for
theft, I mean, and you don't need to tell us at all, because this is a
self-contained if/then/else comment here).
If it were me I would write a letter to the mom, from me, summarizing
a couple of things, but especially the dismantling of the game room
(WITH PHOTOS if possible), and I would tell her that she should not
even TRY to spread the blame for anything her son does, because he was
abandoned by his mother and then abused and neglected (or whatever's
true) when she wandered home.
Maybe send her a copy of Horton Hatches the Egg.
Although I was criticized (lamely, but by someone who thinks all ideas
are equal) for having told someone he wasn't going to spank his
daughter in my house (someone I didn't know, really) and having told a
teenager that if he wanted to be rude to his mother he needed to do it
somewhere besides my house (I did know them--the mom well and the teen
some and his brother VERY well), I think of the moment(s) in
interventions when the things are said that break the denial of the
target person. When someone rattles on for fifteen minutes and
doesn't let me get a word in edgewise (thinking of one particular
recent conversation with a friend of 30 years who didn't homeschool,
who was a harsh mother, and now has problems), I don't feel the least
bit guilty if my response is ten words of a simple point about what
could have make all that better, and her future too. And it's
usually something about being happy or accepting or not so demanding
or self-centered or controlling.
The stories of me stopping others in their tracks had to do with
unschooling meetings we used to have at our house, around ten years
ago (for more than a year, but about that long ago).
http://tinyurl.com/leha4z
I'm not trying to change the subject; it's about whether one parent
can or ever should tell another parent "Look now..." (one of my
stories was about the teen, who was one of Brett Henry's older
brothers).
Sandra
from his dad, but trust is already shot to pieces, and I have no idea
if it'd be possible to get it back in time.-=-
He's 12, so that's six years out from him being "past school age."
What state they're in might matter, or might not. (Depends on the
state, I mean. <g>)
IF the dad is willing to have a divorce under terms that include
having the mother declared unfit so that he has sole custody and she
has visitation only supervised or limited somehow, and IF the dad can
afford to stay home or do something with J, perhaps, that brings in
income (after a while, when trust and the need for spending money
return), it could work.
If J's already needy of things to replace people, it might be a rough
go for the dad to consider going jobless (if he was in juvie for
theft, I mean, and you don't need to tell us at all, because this is a
self-contained if/then/else comment here).
If it were me I would write a letter to the mom, from me, summarizing
a couple of things, but especially the dismantling of the game room
(WITH PHOTOS if possible), and I would tell her that she should not
even TRY to spread the blame for anything her son does, because he was
abandoned by his mother and then abused and neglected (or whatever's
true) when she wandered home.
Maybe send her a copy of Horton Hatches the Egg.
Although I was criticized (lamely, but by someone who thinks all ideas
are equal) for having told someone he wasn't going to spank his
daughter in my house (someone I didn't know, really) and having told a
teenager that if he wanted to be rude to his mother he needed to do it
somewhere besides my house (I did know them--the mom well and the teen
some and his brother VERY well), I think of the moment(s) in
interventions when the things are said that break the denial of the
target person. When someone rattles on for fifteen minutes and
doesn't let me get a word in edgewise (thinking of one particular
recent conversation with a friend of 30 years who didn't homeschool,
who was a harsh mother, and now has problems), I don't feel the least
bit guilty if my response is ten words of a simple point about what
could have make all that better, and her future too. And it's
usually something about being happy or accepting or not so demanding
or self-centered or controlling.
The stories of me stopping others in their tracks had to do with
unschooling meetings we used to have at our house, around ten years
ago (for more than a year, but about that long ago).
http://tinyurl.com/leha4z
I'm not trying to change the subject; it's about whether one parent
can or ever should tell another parent "Look now..." (one of my
stories was about the teen, who was one of Brett Henry's older
brothers).
Sandra
Laureen
Heya
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 8:27 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> If J's already needy of things to replace people, it might be a rough
> go for the dad to consider going jobless (if he was in juvie for
> theft, I mean, and you don't need to tell us at all, because this is a
> self-contained if/then/else comment here).
It's never been about stuff. J figured out years ago that in their
family dynamic, buying stuff is a good way to avoid connecting.
> If it were me I would write a letter to the mom, from me, summarizing
> a couple of things, but especially the dismantling of the game room
> (WITH PHOTOS if possible), and I would tell her that she should not
> even TRY to spread the blame for anything her son does, because he was
> abandoned by his mother and then abused and neglected (or whatever's
> true) when she wandered home.
They're in family therapy, and that ground has been covered by the
therapist, at length. The mom is narcissistic enough that she still
thinks it's all about J being bad and has nothing to do with her
behavior. Thus, the thought of divorce being an improvement.
>
> Maybe send her a copy of Horton Hatches the Egg.
I'd laugh, but that's way too painful. I wonder if that would get through?
> I'm not trying to change the subject; it's about whether one parent
> can or ever should tell another parent "Look now..." (one of my
> stories was about the teen, who was one of Brett Henry's older
> brothers).
I'm thinking that S just really wants someone to tell him it's OK to
go full-out for your child. We live in a very child-hostile part of
California, and here, even having had kids at all makes you a lesser
being, and "bad" children are often considered to be entirely
disposable. He's getting a lot of advice about how to control J, but
not a lot about how to nurture, and certainly, not any from anyone but
me about making his relationship with J paramount to other concerns.
--
~~L!
s/v Excellent Adventure
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
Jenny C
>However, if the mother is really narcissistic, she will not reliquish
> They're in family therapy, and that ground has been covered by the
> therapist, at length. The mom is narcissistic enough that she still
> thinks it's all about J being bad and has nothing to do with her
> behavior. Thus, the thought of divorce being an improvement.
control of her child like that. It could result in years of power
struggles between father and mother. Narcissists really do believe they
are right and everyone else is wrong and will do whatever it takes to
prove it and maintain control.
And if it results in years of power stuggles, the focus will NOT be on
the child in the right way. It may be better for the dad to quite his
job, do a stay at home kind of job and spend loads of time with his
child loving him up and giving him attention. And maybe mom will become
completely dissatisfied with this arrangement and leave again.
Kids in these situations really do see things, they can see who's
causing the Sh** to happen. The more dad does to empower himself and
his son and create safety for each of them, the better off both of them
will be, wether mom stays or not.
Once the kid is out of juvie, dad should get him home and create comfort
and kindness for him. Juvie is harsh and cruel, more so than school.
Even an online charter would be better than school for this kid and
could satisfy the mom as well as keep the kid safe and comfortable.
> I'm thinking that S just really wants someone to tell him it's OK toAhhh San Fran...... I'm guessing....
> go full-out for your child. We live in a very child-hostile part of
> California, and here,
Lauren
I think the complexities in this situation will have more to do w/ the logistics of how to unschool in a single parent or angry-at-each-other parent household, where only one pearent *may* be interested in unschooling enough to do the work of learning about it and practicing it. (Not to mention the custody issues and money issues that arise when being a single parent or a jobless parent...)
But, I wanted to comment on this question:
I think, had he had the opportunity to be unschooled at some point during high school (or before), he would have THRIVED. Having the opportunity to follow his passions with the support of caring adults (instead of the constant criticism he recieved in school and at home), I think, would have only improved his life. Being stuck in school felt, to him, like a big waste of his time. This would have all depended on his parents' ability to really understand unschooling and want to love/support him unconditionally, etc., which didn't seem like something they were able/wanting to do at that time (at least from my POV).
I just wanted to share this, not sure if it pertains to J, but I think that a child labled 'at risk' such as J might really benefit by (for lack of a better description) really *good* unschooling. This all would depend on his dad's ability to 'get' unschooling and apply/utilize it in their lives, esp. w/ all the turmoil involving the mom, etc...
Just my .02!
Lauren :)
But, I wanted to comment on this question:
>>>With a kid that's stepped over the line fromI had a boyfriend in high school and through some of college who was labled a 'troubled' kid. He was very smart and creative, but not in ways that worked well in school. (Not compliant by any means, and often bored in classes because they were not challenging for him.) He ended up being the school drug dealer, often skipped classes, often was in trouble, and was kicked out at 17 when he was a junior. Getting kicked out was probably the BEST thing that ever happened for him--the following year he got his GED at a local community college that had a music recording program he was interested in. He got his associate's there and went on to one of the biggest music recording schools in the US, graduated, and now works in Hollywood as a pretty successful sound effects recorder. He's worked on all of the Saw movies.
> "at risk" to "in Juvie", do you think it'd be OK to support/encourage
> unschooling?<<<
I think, had he had the opportunity to be unschooled at some point during high school (or before), he would have THRIVED. Having the opportunity to follow his passions with the support of caring adults (instead of the constant criticism he recieved in school and at home), I think, would have only improved his life. Being stuck in school felt, to him, like a big waste of his time. This would have all depended on his parents' ability to really understand unschooling and want to love/support him unconditionally, etc., which didn't seem like something they were able/wanting to do at that time (at least from my POV).
I just wanted to share this, not sure if it pertains to J, but I think that a child labled 'at risk' such as J might really benefit by (for lack of a better description) really *good* unschooling. This all would depend on his dad's ability to 'get' unschooling and apply/utilize it in their lives, esp. w/ all the turmoil involving the mom, etc...
Just my .02!
Lauren :)