Do you tell a neighbor or stranger to be nicer to their kids?
vaughn1674
Sandra you wrote these paragraphs(below)in another post and it really got me thinking. So, I wrote to my friend Amy about it and included our brief email discussion below your words. I'm also looking for other people's contributions to this discussion, as I am trying to learn how to speak up for myself, my kids, and other kids who may need help. Sometimes I can't decide when and if it is my place to do so.
_______________________________________________________________________
When I told my neighbor to be nicer to his kids he said to mind my own
business. I said if he would keep his noise out of my yard that would
be fine, but if he was going to yell and disturb my peace too, it was
my business, and if his kids were going to keep being mean to mine
because he was mean to his, that was my business. It wasn't said that
smoothly or all at once, because he would insult me (in front of his
wife and kids) and then I would respond. I didn't go to his house to
say anything. He was berating his young boys (now teens) about kite
flying, in the vacant lot behind both our houses, and I was passing by
to go and rent a video. I passed by and said softly to him "You
should be nicer to them."
Perhaps it was "not nice" for me to say that, but it also resulted in
them being quieter, and apparently of him being nicer to them. I
wasn't fighting a fight, I was expressing a sorrow for those children
that had built up over a couple of years, spiced with reports from
Holly and Marty of random meanness the boys had expressed to them just
for passing by, and meanness at the park near our houses.
What people do privately is in a different category from what's done
publicly. So I know that having a list like this, having a big-mouth
blog, having a website, makes me a target. Defending unschooling
makes me a target. But I'm expressing what has built up in me about
children and parenting over many years. Nobody has to hear it (read
it), because I'm not pushing it. People come here.
_______________________________________________________________________
Amy, I'm quoting this above from Sandra Dodd because it makes me think of when my neighbor across the street is mean (in my opinion) to his 3.5 year old son. For example, there are times when he knows all his son wants to do is play in their van, but he (the dad) wants to go in the house because "it is time for..." so the dad locks the van and leaves the son standing, screaming in the driveway. Screaming so earnestly that I think he is hurt. I've looked over there with concern and started to put my shoes on, contemplating going over to comfort the boy. Then the dad comes out, standing on his porch with his hands on his hips with the look of, "I've got this under control." Then I get too intimidated to say anything to him or his son. Even when my other next door neighbor, calls out jokingly, "Child abuse" with a chuckle, I still chose to just whisper to my kids, "that's too bad" because they're standing in our yard watching their friend cry.
-Jenny V.
________________________________________________________________________
Amy replied:
We were at the zoo last summer and this guy was yelling at his older daughter when the younger daughter and their mom walked away. He was screaming in her face, it was disgusting. I couldn't eat my lunch, I lost my appetite. Jeff got up and said to him, "don't talk to your daughter like that!" And the guy said, "Mind your own f'ing business!" Jeff said, "It is my business when my kids can hear you bullying your daughter, everyone can hear you!" Jeff got right in his face, I grabbed him and said we should go...stuff like that scares me a little. Most people react with hate when people try to mention how they should treat their kids and living in W. PA most people think spankings and time outs are just a part of parenting. I can't even read my local mom's board anymore, it was causing me to have too many negative feelings. I agree with Sandra Dodd, if we can hear it the issue becomes our business. Gavin BeBeckner who wrote Protecting the Gift says it's every ones job to protect children.
a
_______________________________________________________________________
When I told my neighbor to be nicer to his kids he said to mind my own
business. I said if he would keep his noise out of my yard that would
be fine, but if he was going to yell and disturb my peace too, it was
my business, and if his kids were going to keep being mean to mine
because he was mean to his, that was my business. It wasn't said that
smoothly or all at once, because he would insult me (in front of his
wife and kids) and then I would respond. I didn't go to his house to
say anything. He was berating his young boys (now teens) about kite
flying, in the vacant lot behind both our houses, and I was passing by
to go and rent a video. I passed by and said softly to him "You
should be nicer to them."
Perhaps it was "not nice" for me to say that, but it also resulted in
them being quieter, and apparently of him being nicer to them. I
wasn't fighting a fight, I was expressing a sorrow for those children
that had built up over a couple of years, spiced with reports from
Holly and Marty of random meanness the boys had expressed to them just
for passing by, and meanness at the park near our houses.
What people do privately is in a different category from what's done
publicly. So I know that having a list like this, having a big-mouth
blog, having a website, makes me a target. Defending unschooling
makes me a target. But I'm expressing what has built up in me about
children and parenting over many years. Nobody has to hear it (read
it), because I'm not pushing it. People come here.
_______________________________________________________________________
Amy, I'm quoting this above from Sandra Dodd because it makes me think of when my neighbor across the street is mean (in my opinion) to his 3.5 year old son. For example, there are times when he knows all his son wants to do is play in their van, but he (the dad) wants to go in the house because "it is time for..." so the dad locks the van and leaves the son standing, screaming in the driveway. Screaming so earnestly that I think he is hurt. I've looked over there with concern and started to put my shoes on, contemplating going over to comfort the boy. Then the dad comes out, standing on his porch with his hands on his hips with the look of, "I've got this under control." Then I get too intimidated to say anything to him or his son. Even when my other next door neighbor, calls out jokingly, "Child abuse" with a chuckle, I still chose to just whisper to my kids, "that's too bad" because they're standing in our yard watching their friend cry.
-Jenny V.
________________________________________________________________________
Amy replied:
We were at the zoo last summer and this guy was yelling at his older daughter when the younger daughter and their mom walked away. He was screaming in her face, it was disgusting. I couldn't eat my lunch, I lost my appetite. Jeff got up and said to him, "don't talk to your daughter like that!" And the guy said, "Mind your own f'ing business!" Jeff said, "It is my business when my kids can hear you bullying your daughter, everyone can hear you!" Jeff got right in his face, I grabbed him and said we should go...stuff like that scares me a little. Most people react with hate when people try to mention how they should treat their kids and living in W. PA most people think spankings and time outs are just a part of parenting. I can't even read my local mom's board anymore, it was causing me to have too many negative feelings. I agree with Sandra Dodd, if we can hear it the issue becomes our business. Gavin BeBeckner who wrote Protecting the Gift says it's every ones job to protect children.
a
Sandra Dodd
-=-I am trying to learn how to speak up for myself, my kids, and other
kids who may need help. Sometimes I can't decide when and if it is my
place to do so.-=-
The chance of saying the right thing at the right time is slim. Those
who speak up risk saying too much too soon, too little too late, or
pissing off someone who's already filled with meanness and adrenaline.
Few people need to feel obligated to do it. And a mother with a very
young child has a whole different set of considerations. Sometimes a
smile to the child can be a comfort, and maybe if he needs help he'll
come and ask you another time.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kids who may need help. Sometimes I can't decide when and if it is my
place to do so.-=-
The chance of saying the right thing at the right time is slim. Those
who speak up risk saying too much too soon, too little too late, or
pissing off someone who's already filled with meanness and adrenaline.
Few people need to feel obligated to do it. And a mother with a very
young child has a whole different set of considerations. Sometimes a
smile to the child can be a comfort, and maybe if he needs help he'll
come and ask you another time.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lyla Wolfenstein
----- Original Message -----
From: Sandra Dodd
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Do you tell a neighbor or stranger to be nicer to their kids?
The chance of saying the right thing at the right time is slim. Those
who speak up risk saying too much too soon, too little too late, or
pissing off someone who's already filled with meanness and adrenaline.
Few people need to feel obligated to do it. And a mother with a very
young child has a whole different set of considerations. Sometimes a
smile to the child can be a comfort, and maybe if he needs help he'll
come and ask you another time.
>>>>>>>>>>>
my daughter (nearly 14) was at the airport in CA in March, on her way home from a visit/writing conference she attended, and she was IMing me from her laptop while waiting for her plane. she wrote "people are SO mean to their kids :(" and proceeded to describe a scenario that was unfolding, wherein a 3 year old girl, who was with her mother and grandmother, and infant sibling, was eating ice cream with her family out of a shared cup, and dropped her little pink spoon. she really wanted another like it, and the grandma and mom were telling her she needed to use the regular sized spoon and stop complaining, or get her "butt beat." finally my daughter couldn't take it anymore and she got up and crossed to the ice cream counter, asked for a mini spoon, and just walked over and offered it to the little girl. the child wouldn't take it so my daughter handed it to the mom and said "if she wants to use this here it is" - but they still didn't let her use it!
after that, they roughly laid her down in a stroller and commanded her to SLEEP NOW (again with the threat of a butt beating). eventually, the grandma did march the little girl to the bathroom to beat her butt, and the little girl was covering her behind the whole way there.
my daughter crossed to the mom and asked if that bothered her. the mom said her mother (the grandmother) is "a social worker, so it's not abuse or anything" and that the mom couldn't do it herself because she was in a wheelchair and has a heart condition. it was so sad and my daughter didn't even know what to say. but it was a really intense experience for her - and i don't really know if i would have known what to say either. i was really impressed she even thought of going and getting the spoon.
Lyla
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Vaughn
Ahhh, that is very helpful. Saying nothing and giving a smile to the child if I can. That could help a lot more than words. I've been noticing that with my own kids...less words, and just being present...
-Jenny V
-Jenny V
--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Do you tell a neighbor or stranger to be nicer to their kids?
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 7:03 PM
-=-I am trying to learn how to speak up for myself, my kids, and other
kids who may need help. Sometimes I can't decide when and if it is my
place to do so.-=-
The chance of saying the right thing at the right time is slim. Those
who speak up risk saying too much too soon, too little too late, or
pissing off someone who's already filled with meanness and adrenaline.
Few people need to feel obligated to do it. And a mother with a very
young child has a whole different set of considerations. Sometimes a
smile to the child can be a comfort, and maybe if he needs help he'll
come and ask you another time.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vaughn1674
> The chance of saying the right thing at the right time is slim. ThoseI did tell this same neighbor (in email, not in person) about some things I didn't like that he said to my kids. Not mean stuff, just annoying. I was stewing about it. Then I thought I'm mad because I believe he is judging me, and that is one of the worst thing I dislike about myself - judging other people. I stopped being angry, but I decided to tell him what I thought anyway, to get it off my chest. This is what I said:
> who speak up risk saying too much too soon, too little too late...
> Sandra
____________________________________________________________________
Mike,
I'd like to clear something up. There have been at least three times now that you have mentioned that one of my kids was barefoot. Once when I was walking back from the mailbox you said it was crazy that Evan was not wearing shoes; so I said that "I figure they can be barefoot if they want to." Then another time, Colby was out front playing and you asked him in an exaggerated voice, "Where are your shoes?" Then tonight, Owen mentioned that when Evan came to your driveway you said, "Stop, nobody can come over without shoes on," (or something like that.)
Two things:
1. We realize that you wanted Evan to keep his distance because of fear of flu (which my kids don't have by the way.) So we feel like it would have given Evan much more accurate information if you could have just honestly said to him, "Oh hey, stop. Don't come over here today. We're afraid of the flu that the neighbor has." Instead, he thought you really meant what you said about shoes, came home to put his shoes on, and started to go back over, apparently.
2. Our children choose to put on their shoes, and any other clothing, when they want to. They go barefoot when they want to. They are in control of their own bodies. Owen and I feel very strongly about this. We would appreciate it if you could try to be more aware of what you say to the kids that could undermine their choices or freedoms. Please be aware that your perception of hazards, or what children "should" do, may be different than ours.
We are not mad about this, by the way. I only chose to put this in an email because I am better at expressing myself in writing than I am in person. In addition, we decided we should definitely tell you how we felt about these things, because how could you possibly know how we feel if we didn't tell you?
Best regards,
Jenny
_____________________________________________________________________
He responded politely that it was well noted and appreciated, thank you. I'm having second thoughts though that I could have just let it go, and then third thoughts that I'm doing right to speak up for what we think. Blah, blah round and round I go, LOL.
carenkh
-=-I am trying to learn how to speak up for myself, my kids, and other kids who may need help. Sometimes I can't decide when and if it is my place to do so.-=-
This isn't about speaking up, really, but a great tool I've used for the past couple of years is a little bottle of bubbles that I keep in my purse. It's larger than those wedding bubbles, but smaller than a "standard" bottle; I guess it's 3 ounces or so.
If I'm in the grocery store or Target or wherever and I see that a child is having a meltdown, and either the parent isn't responding or is getting more and more angry, I'll get out the bubbles. I can stand some distance away and blow the bubbles in their direction - kids are enchanted with bubbles, and it usually works to completely dismantle (? not the right word) the situation. The child gets distracted and sometimes happy, and the parent gets a minute to breathe. I've only had one negative reaction in the many times I've done this.
I had to look hard to find a good bottle that didn't leak in my purse.
I also thank parents when I see them being especially patient with their kids. I always tense up a little when I hear a child cry in a store, and it's always such a relief when the parent responds with kindness. A couple weeks ago, I heard a child cry and cry, and I did hear an angry voice... I wandered over, and a little girl was crying because she had bumped her head. Her mom was holding her and murmuring soft, soothing things. It was the grandmother who was saying, "You shouldn't have been over there in the first place! Serves you right!", etc. After the girl was calm, I touched the mom's shoulder and told her I really appreciated her patience and kindness, that that makes such a big difference to a child.
Caren
This isn't about speaking up, really, but a great tool I've used for the past couple of years is a little bottle of bubbles that I keep in my purse. It's larger than those wedding bubbles, but smaller than a "standard" bottle; I guess it's 3 ounces or so.
If I'm in the grocery store or Target or wherever and I see that a child is having a meltdown, and either the parent isn't responding or is getting more and more angry, I'll get out the bubbles. I can stand some distance away and blow the bubbles in their direction - kids are enchanted with bubbles, and it usually works to completely dismantle (? not the right word) the situation. The child gets distracted and sometimes happy, and the parent gets a minute to breathe. I've only had one negative reaction in the many times I've done this.
I had to look hard to find a good bottle that didn't leak in my purse.
I also thank parents when I see them being especially patient with their kids. I always tense up a little when I hear a child cry in a store, and it's always such a relief when the parent responds with kindness. A couple weeks ago, I heard a child cry and cry, and I did hear an angry voice... I wandered over, and a little girl was crying because she had bumped her head. Her mom was holding her and murmuring soft, soothing things. It was the grandmother who was saying, "You shouldn't have been over there in the first place! Serves you right!", etc. After the girl was calm, I touched the mom's shoulder and told her I really appreciated her patience and kindness, that that makes such a big difference to a child.
Caren
Sandra Dodd
-=- and it usually works to completely dismantle (? not the right
word) the situation. -=-
defuse?
disarm?
dissolve? :-)
Good idea!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
word) the situation. -=-
defuse?
disarm?
dissolve? :-)
Good idea!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>their kids.
> I also thank parents when I see them being especially patient with
That's a good reminder! I should start doing that more. I do that with
kids a lot. I like pointing out their good qualities and really seeing
how they shine.
I remember a few times at the grocery store, having a little crying
baby, and being calm and having other moms telling me how awesome that
was. (It always happened at New Seasons Market for those other locals,
they will know what I'm talking about, since the store motto is "the
friendliest place to shop" or something like that) It felt good and
reinforced my own feelings for having done something good. I've got to
pay it forward more.
Sandra Dodd
I've been thinking about this, and I think it goes too far.
Jenny wrote this to her neighbor:
-=-2. Our children choose to put on their shoes, and any other
clothing, when they
want to. They go barefoot when they want to. They are in control of
their own
bodies. Owen and I feel very strongly about this. We would appreciate
it if you
could try to be more aware of what you say to the kids that could
undermine
their choices or freedoms. Please be aware that your perception of
hazards, or
what children "should" do, may be different than ours.-=-
Although it was politely worded, and the neighbor responded
positively, as an example on this list I want to note that asking
people outside one's family to change their thinking or language seems
a little far out there. There are ways to do it with humor, or a
dirty look, or whatever might work between one parent and one neighbor/
stranger/receptionist, but the idea worth thinking about very deeply.
Also I object to "They are in control of their own bodies."
First, it's only partly true. Even the last guy left on earth has to
know his body is going to do some things he can't "control."
And if it's good for my child to "be in control" of his own body, I
should let the neighbor "be in control" of his body, and say and do
what he wants to.
"To be in control" isn't a worthy goal all in and of itself.
To have options and to do things that don't harm or inconvenience
others is cool. To control ANYone is not an energy that leads to
compassion or consideration.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny wrote this to her neighbor:
-=-2. Our children choose to put on their shoes, and any other
clothing, when they
want to. They go barefoot when they want to. They are in control of
their own
bodies. Owen and I feel very strongly about this. We would appreciate
it if you
could try to be more aware of what you say to the kids that could
undermine
their choices or freedoms. Please be aware that your perception of
hazards, or
what children "should" do, may be different than ours.-=-
Although it was politely worded, and the neighbor responded
positively, as an example on this list I want to note that asking
people outside one's family to change their thinking or language seems
a little far out there. There are ways to do it with humor, or a
dirty look, or whatever might work between one parent and one neighbor/
stranger/receptionist, but the idea worth thinking about very deeply.
Also I object to "They are in control of their own bodies."
First, it's only partly true. Even the last guy left on earth has to
know his body is going to do some things he can't "control."
And if it's good for my child to "be in control" of his own body, I
should let the neighbor "be in control" of his body, and say and do
what he wants to.
"To be in control" isn't a worthy goal all in and of itself.
To have options and to do things that don't harm or inconvenience
others is cool. To control ANYone is not an energy that leads to
compassion or consideration.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> He responded politely that it was well noted and appreciated, thankyou. I'm having second thoughts though that I could have just let it go,
and then third thoughts that I'm doing right to speak up for what we
think. Blah, blah round and round I go, LOL.
>With neighbors, I really try to be as open and honest and kind as
possible in person. I help trim trees, or rake a few extra leaves that
are just kind of in their yard, loan out tools and do nice things of
that nature. Almost all of our neighbors like us. We've gotten sweet
gifts from some of them, like a bag of pears, or a stack of really
fantastic barbie magazines. Only a few of our neighbors are really
untouchable, and it is only because of them and their yuckiness, not
because of us.
My rule of thumb, sort of, is that if you have a neighbor who is the
neighborhood watch dog sort of person, then make sure that person is
someone that likes you, be nice to that person and things go much more
smoothly in your neighborly relations!
The social workers that live next door love us, we are the ones that
watch their cats and get their mail when they are out of town...
Jenny Vaughn
<<This isn't about speaking up, really, but a great tool I've used for the past couple of years is a little bottle of bubbles that I keep in my purse. It's larger than those wedding bubbles, but smaller than a "standard" bottle; I guess it's 3 ounces or so. If I'm in the grocery store or Target or wherever and I see that a child is having a meltdown, and either the parent isn't responding or is getting more and more angry, I'll get out the bubbles. I can stand some distance away and blow the bubbles in their direction - kids are enchanted with bubbles, and it usually works to completely dismantle (? not the right word) the situation. The child gets distracted and sometimes happy, and the parent gets a minute to breathe. I've only had one negative reaction in the many times I've done this.>>
What a really sweet idea.
<<I also thank parents when I see them being especially patient
with their kids. ... After the girl was calm, I touched the mom's
shoulder and told her I really appreciated her patience and kindness,
that that makes such a big difference to a child.>>
I bet that your words make such a big difference for the parents too, I know it would with me. Thanks Caren. Noticing and responding to the positive sounds like a "win-win" situation. Once I said something impatient to my son when we were in public and a woman said sympathetically to me, "being a mom is hard sometimes." I was surprised, then embarrassed and felt guilty that I'd said that to my son. I thought he needed the kind words, not me for being mean. But how would I have felt if someone spoke directly to him? how would he have felt? These are just things I was pondering.
Jenny
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What a really sweet idea.
<<I also thank parents when I see them being especially patient
with their kids. ... After the girl was calm, I touched the mom's
shoulder and told her I really appreciated her patience and kindness,
that that makes such a big difference to a child.>>
I bet that your words make such a big difference for the parents too, I know it would with me. Thanks Caren. Noticing and responding to the positive sounds like a "win-win" situation. Once I said something impatient to my son when we were in public and a woman said sympathetically to me, "being a mom is hard sometimes." I was surprised, then embarrassed and felt guilty that I'd said that to my son. I thought he needed the kind words, not me for being mean. But how would I have felt if someone spoke directly to him? how would he have felt? These are just things I was pondering.
Jenny
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Jenny Vaughn
Thanks Sandra. You explained very well the things about what I wrote that now are making ME uncomfortable.
-Jenny V.
-Jenny V.
--- On Wed, 5/13/09, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Do you tell a neighbor or stranger to be nicer to their kids?
To: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 10:11 AM
I've been thinking about this, and I think it goes too far.
Jenny wrote this to her neighbor:
-=-2. Our children choose to put on their shoes, and any other
clothing, when they
want to. They go barefoot when they want to. They are in control of
their own
bodies. Owen and I feel very strongly about this. We would appreciate
it if you
could try to be more aware of what you say to the kids that could
undermine
their choices or freedoms. Please be aware that your perception of
hazards, or
what children "should" do, may be different than ours.-=-
Although it was politely worded, and the neighbor responded
positively, as an example on this list I want to note that asking
people outside one's family to change their thinking or language seems
a little far out there. There are ways to do it with humor, or a
dirty look, or whatever might work between one parent and one neighbor/
stranger/receptioni st, but the idea worth thinking about very deeply.
Also I object to "They are in control of their own bodies."
First, it's only partly true. Even the last guy left on earth has to
know his body is going to do some things he can't "control."
And if it's good for my child to "be in control" of his own body, I
should let the neighbor "be in control" of his body, and say and do
what he wants to.
"To be in control" isn't a worthy goal all in and of itself.
To have options and to do things that don't harm or inconvenience
others is cool. To control ANYone is not an energy that leads to
compassion or consideration.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny Vaughn
<<...be nice to that person and things go much more
smoothly in your neighborly relations!
The social workers that live next door love us, we are the ones that
watch their cats and get their mail when they are out of town...Jenny C.>>
Oh yeah. Very important things to consider, especially since we'll be unschooling and neighbors will no doubt notice my kids playing at home all the time as they get older. Plus being nice and kind go a lot farther than trying to be on a soap box all the time. I guess I should think more about how would I like people to talk to me, before I stick my "foot in my mouth."
Thanks, Jenny Vaughn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
smoothly in your neighborly relations!
The social workers that live next door love us, we are the ones that
watch their cats and get their mail when they are out of town...Jenny C.>>
Oh yeah. Very important things to consider, especially since we'll be unschooling and neighbors will no doubt notice my kids playing at home all the time as they get older. Plus being nice and kind go a lot farther than trying to be on a soap box all the time. I guess I should think more about how would I like people to talk to me, before I stick my "foot in my mouth."
Thanks, Jenny Vaughn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>>> To have options and to do things that don't harm or inconvenienceothers is cool. To control ANYone is not an energy that leads to
compassion or consideration. <<<<
I hope it helps that she communicated something.
I agree that it helps the mom though to think more in the vein of
options and saying like as far as I (the mom) am concerned, my kids can
go barefoot (for example), and if there's a specific problem that's
worrying you (the neighbor) about my kids' feet, I'd like to know about
it. (Because it's possible that there might be.) The neighbor was
probably just being controlling and nosy. Maybe he's bored, huh?
~Katherine
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/13/2009 10:07 AM, katherand@... wrote:
Carries some shoes in a backpack and will slip them on if a restaurant
tells him he has to, but that's about it. His feet are sometimes black
with grime and he does occasionally get cuts and steps on sharp things.
And he often sits on furniture with his feet tucked up under him. He may
have control over his own body, but I doubt he has an accurate sense of
his options being reduced because of it. People might not invite him to
their home or to go places with them because of this habit.
I don't see anything wrong with telling kids that so-and-so likes you to
wear your shoes when you're at their house. Or that s/he likes you to
take them off inside the house, for that matter.
We take our shoes off inside, when we walk on carpeted parts of the
floor. That's a very Iranian thing to do - other Asian countries, too. I
suppose it stems from times when they tended to sit more on the floor -
my husband's family sat on the floor to eat at a very low table, for
example. But, even here and now, it "feels" icky to my husband for
people to walk with their outdoor shoes on the carpet. And, he DOES
spend time on the floor - he sprawls out on the floor in front of the
tv, for example, quite a bit. He also doesn't feel good about being
outdoors with bare feet. He's gotten used to seeing others do it here in
Southern California, where it is pretty common, but he never goes out
without at least flip-flops on his feet and even after 25 years of being
married to me, he'll look at me oddly and ask, "Did you go out to the
car in your bare feet?" like he's a little dumbfounded by it.
I remember my grandmother being aghast at me coming out of a department
store fitting room in my bare feet - just to show her a skirt I was
trying on. "Pammy, go back in and put on your shoes." For her, it was
about being "classy" -- if you could afford to wear shoes, you did.not
let yourself be seen without them on.
-pam
> I agree that it helps the mom though to think more in the vein ofI know someone (a young adult) who goes barefoot at all possible times.
> options and saying like as far as I (the mom) am concerned, my kids can
> go barefoot (for example), and if there's a specific problem that's
> worrying you (the neighbor) about my kids' feet, I'd like to know about
> it. (Because it's possible that there might be.) The neighbor was
> probably just being controlling and nosy. Maybe he's bored, huh?
>
>
Carries some shoes in a backpack and will slip them on if a restaurant
tells him he has to, but that's about it. His feet are sometimes black
with grime and he does occasionally get cuts and steps on sharp things.
And he often sits on furniture with his feet tucked up under him. He may
have control over his own body, but I doubt he has an accurate sense of
his options being reduced because of it. People might not invite him to
their home or to go places with them because of this habit.
I don't see anything wrong with telling kids that so-and-so likes you to
wear your shoes when you're at their house. Or that s/he likes you to
take them off inside the house, for that matter.
We take our shoes off inside, when we walk on carpeted parts of the
floor. That's a very Iranian thing to do - other Asian countries, too. I
suppose it stems from times when they tended to sit more on the floor -
my husband's family sat on the floor to eat at a very low table, for
example. But, even here and now, it "feels" icky to my husband for
people to walk with their outdoor shoes on the carpet. And, he DOES
spend time on the floor - he sprawls out on the floor in front of the
tv, for example, quite a bit. He also doesn't feel good about being
outdoors with bare feet. He's gotten used to seeing others do it here in
Southern California, where it is pretty common, but he never goes out
without at least flip-flops on his feet and even after 25 years of being
married to me, he'll look at me oddly and ask, "Did you go out to the
car in your bare feet?" like he's a little dumbfounded by it.
I remember my grandmother being aghast at me coming out of a department
store fitting room in my bare feet - just to show her a skirt I was
trying on. "Pammy, go back in and put on your shoes." For her, it was
about being "classy" -- if you could afford to wear shoes, you did.not
let yourself be seen without them on.
-pam
[email protected]
LOL. I used to go outside with no shoes on ALL the time as a kid and I
miss that freedom. In my own home I still like going barefoot inside
and occasionally I go outside without shoes. Shoes are like seatbelts
for some people and status symbols for MANY people. If you don't wear
them, some will see a safety hazard at every step, even though safety
is relative in different kinds of shoes. Some are harder to cut off if
you get injured (if you break a bone, swelling after being stung by
bees or something) and having slip-on shoes would better. I prefer
some shoes because I can feel where I'm walking with them and my
balance is better when I can feel more. Some shoes that I can feel the
ground with are too flimsy for my liking. So I do prefer going
barefoot. But I usually wear slip-ons in the house and out. Go
figure.
Going shoeless is healthier for airing out feet, which might keep down
on fungal problems for people with sweaty feet. Some people wear shoes
from the time they get out of bed to the time they lie down. (Ugh.)
I love the tradition of taking off shoes indoors, carpet or not. The
floors do stay much cleaner and that's less hassle right there. Many
Americans that I know have taken up the habit. I wish we did here.
Floor cleaning wouldn't be near as necessary.
~Katherine
miss that freedom. In my own home I still like going barefoot inside
and occasionally I go outside without shoes. Shoes are like seatbelts
for some people and status symbols for MANY people. If you don't wear
them, some will see a safety hazard at every step, even though safety
is relative in different kinds of shoes. Some are harder to cut off if
you get injured (if you break a bone, swelling after being stung by
bees or something) and having slip-on shoes would better. I prefer
some shoes because I can feel where I'm walking with them and my
balance is better when I can feel more. Some shoes that I can feel the
ground with are too flimsy for my liking. So I do prefer going
barefoot. But I usually wear slip-ons in the house and out. Go
figure.
Going shoeless is healthier for airing out feet, which might keep down
on fungal problems for people with sweaty feet. Some people wear shoes
from the time they get out of bed to the time they lie down. (Ugh.)
I love the tradition of taking off shoes indoors, carpet or not. The
floors do stay much cleaner and that's less hassle right there. Many
Americans that I know have taken up the habit. I wish we did here.
Floor cleaning wouldn't be near as necessary.
~Katherine
On May 13, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
> I know someone (a young adult) who goes barefoot at all possible times.
> Carries some shoes in a backpack and will slip them on if a restaurant
> tells him he has to, but that's about it. His feet are sometimes black
> with grime and he does occasionally get cuts and steps on sharp things.
> And he often sits on furniture with his feet tucked up under him. He
> may
> have control over his own body, but I doubt he has an accurate sense of
> his options being reduced because of it. People might not invite him to
> their home or to go places with them because of this habit.
>
> I don't see anything wrong with telling kids that so-and-so likes you
> to
> wear your shoes when you're at their house. Or that s/he likes you to
> take them off inside the house, for that matter.
>
> We take our shoes off inside, when we walk on carpeted parts of the
> floor. That's a very Iranian thing to do - other Asian countries, too.
> I
> suppose it stems from times when they tended to sit more on the floor -
> my husband's family sat on the floor to eat at a very low table, for
> example. But, even here and now, it "feels" icky to my husband for
> people to walk with their outdoor shoes on the carpet. And, he DOES
> spend time on the floor - he sprawls out on the floor in front of the
> tv, for example, quite a bit. He also doesn't feel good about being
> outdoors with bare feet. He's gotten used to seeing others do it here
> in
> Southern California, where it is pretty common, but he never goes out
> without at least flip-flops on his feet and even after 25 years of
> being
> married to me, he'll look at me oddly and ask, "Did you go out to the
> car in your bare feet?" like he's a little dumbfounded by it.
>
> I remember my grandmother being aghast at me coming out of a department
> store fitting room in my bare feet - just to show her a skirt I was
> trying on. "Pammy, go back in and put on your shoes." For her, it was
> about being "classy" -- if you could afford to wear shoes, you did.not
> let yourself be seen without them on.
>
> -pam
Laureen
Heya!
On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Jenny C <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
> I remember a few times at the grocery store, having a little crying
> baby, and being calm and having other moms telling me how awesome that
> was. (It always happened at New Seasons Market for those other locals,
> they will know what I'm talking about, since the store motto is "the
> friendliest place to shop" or something like that) It felt good and
> reinforced my own feelings for having done something good. I've got to
> pay it forward more.
Here's something I wrote a few years back, about just such a person.
http://theexcellentadventure.com/elementalmom/2007/09/03/open-letter-to-a-fellow-mom/
--
~~L!
s/v Excellent Adventure
http://www.theexcellentadventure.com/
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