Shannon D. Burton

I left Friday's chat with a lot of unschooling cud to chew. Like so many before me, I realized that, although I have read and read, and then read more, and although we've made remarkable shifts in our attitudes and the choices we make, there is a difference between grasping a concept and grokking (best word ever for this!) the full scope and possibility of that concept...

I have a lot to learn. And I've never been more open or passionate about learning!

So, in order that you all get the chance to open doors to that learning, that life I see glowing brighter and freer on the horizon, here's what I wrote in the wee hours of the orning after the chat...


1. Sandra (in my mind, Sandra the Wise *G*) mentioned that I seemed to be rejecting ideas or else trying to incorporate them into a big plan....well, I am a big plan kind of person (for fun, I write fantasy and fanfic, and I love epics), so I am likely guilty as charged, there. I'm still working away from seeing my kids as needing fixing. Haveen't gotten as deep there as I thought I had.

But rejecting...I realize later that I kept saying 'no'. what I meant was, "I see the point, but this isn't quite the issue I'm clumsily trying to articulate, and I'm new to this format, there's stuff going on here, and I'm getting frazzled, which makes me feel trapped and panicky..." Or, more to the point, "slow down, please....let me think."

I do better with a pen and a notebook. But I've learned that it is not wise to begin a post with the word "no" here!

2. I missed some of the suggestions in my frantic state. But I see words in my head, and later they slid past while I was occupied with yard stuff. Someone suggested "cheating" games where rules were gleefully broken. Whoever you are, thank you! The kids love that idea, and since I suggested it, they've played several games together with no angst. Such a wonderful idea - playful and respectful to all of us, of every age.

3. The "seesaw effect" I talked about seems to be worse when Annalise is in a phase of rapid cognitive and developmental ability, as she certainly is, now. It gets trickier when both of them are, and - guess what - Jeremiah is also growing by leaps...so it may be just a matter of riding the wave to the crest and learning to balance as we go....

4. We are all very independent people. We all enjoy times of solitude to pursue our own interests. We tend toward intersecting orbits. Since we removed chore controls, though, I've been more focused on cleaning and doing than being....I'm consciously intersecting more with each of them, and both of them. And, where before I was intersecting with them where I was, now I am paying attention to remembering to intersect with them where they are. So I'm reading Lise more stories, dressing and tending her babies, and letting her spend 20 minutes to choose the perfect pair of pink sandals for a girl who is both a fashionista and a daredevil, among other things...and I'm listening to secret spy talk, buying invisible sugar drink powder and bottled water for the playground, and traveling through time, space, and physics with my young renaissance man....and I feel like I am being constantly gifted!

5. I didn't get it. I thought I did. But it's like mowing the lawn, or dishes, or laundry, or being their mom...it will always be evolving, because it isn't an it. It is life.

I was compartmentalizing something, labelling it as having to do with this our that. But it isn't. It is about a 7.5 year old boy and a not-quite-five who love each other deeply and truly and sometimes have conflict. It is about being with them both as they are, in this moment. Respecting that. Loving that. And letting them see it and love it in each other.

I hope that's it. That seems like it - but lately, assumptions don't seem solid. I don't know what I know..

Thanks to everyone who was open enough to share...I learned more about myself than about the "problem". Somehow, I think that was maybe the point...?

I am going to try to make tomorrow's chat about judgement and assumptions...can't wait to see what I'll be learning next!

Intrigued,
Shan

k

Well this is interesting and exciting to see this writeup on the chat
Friday. I have had a lot of growth from chats too and I am agog at this
writing it all down here by Shan (very nice!). Not myself usually being the
kind of person who puts my own growth in words very well.

I thought at first I would be unlikely to make Monday's chat but now it
looks like I will be able to since my sister doesn't need my help packing
and moving more stuff to her new place until Wednesday. I talked with her
over the phone a bit and I think (I HOPE) I may have hit on an idea for
making some money to fund gas expense to take Karl places. Money has been
so tight lately and we live pretty far from things we like to do. A couple
of things: housecleaning which we've both done before and also, slower to
see results from but easier work, starting greenhouses at both our places to
grow a variety of things and see what people like to buy, something Beth
along with her daughter Jennie has experience doing (selling and growing).
It's nice to think of doing things together now that she lives closer by.
We'll see if any of our ideas pan out.

~Katherine




On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 3:06 AM, Shannon D. Burton <memismommy@...>wrote:

> I left Friday's chat with a lot of unschooling cud to chew. Like so many
> before me, I realized that, although I have read and read, and then read
> more, and although we've made remarkable shifts in our attitudes and the
> choices we make, there is a difference between grasping a concept and
> grokking (best word ever for this!) the full scope and possibility of that
> concept...
>
> I have a lot to learn. And I've never been more open or passionate about
> learning!
>
> So, in order that you all get the chance to open doors to that learning,
> that life I see glowing brighter and freer on the horizon, here's what I
> wrote in the wee hours of the orning after the chat...
>
>
> 1. Sandra (in my mind, Sandra the Wise *G*) mentioned that I seemed to be
> rejecting ideas or else trying to incorporate them into a big plan....well,
> I am a big plan kind of person (for fun, I write fantasy and fanfic, and I
> love epics), so I am likely guilty as charged, there. I'm still working
> away from seeing my kids as needing fixing. Haveen't gotten as deep there
> as I thought I had.
>
> But rejecting...I realize later that I kept saying 'no'. what I meant was,
> "I see the point, but this isn't quite the issue I'm clumsily trying to
> articulate, and I'm new to this format, there's stuff going on here, and I'm
> getting frazzled, which makes me feel trapped and panicky..." Or, more to
> the point, "slow down, please....let me think."
>
> I do better with a pen and a notebook. But I've learned that it is not
> wise to begin a post with the word "no" here!
>
> 2. I missed some of the suggestions in my frantic state. But I see words
> in my head, and later they slid past while I was occupied with yard stuff.
> Someone suggested "cheating" games where rules were gleefully broken.
> Whoever you are, thank you! The kids love that idea, and since I suggested
> it, they've played several games together with no angst. Such a wonderful
> idea - playful and respectful to all of us, of every age.
>
> 3. The "seesaw effect" I talked about seems to be worse when Annalise is in
> a phase of rapid cognitive and developmental ability, as she certainly is,
> now. It gets trickier when both of them are, and - guess what - Jeremiah is
> also growing by leaps...so it may be just a matter of riding the wave to the
> crest and learning to balance as we go....
>
> 4. We are all very independent people. We all enjoy times of solitude to
> pursue our own interests. We tend toward intersecting orbits. Since we
> removed chore controls, though, I've been more focused on cleaning and doing
> than being....I'm consciously intersecting more with each of them, and both
> of them. And, where before I was intersecting with them where I was, now I
> am paying attention to remembering to intersect with them where they are.
> So I'm reading Lise more stories, dressing and tending her babies, and
> letting her spend 20 minutes to choose the perfect pair of pink sandals for
> a girl who is both a fashionista and a daredevil, among other things...and
> I'm listening to secret spy talk, buying invisible sugar drink powder and
> bottled water for the playground, and traveling through time, space, and
> physics with my young renaissance man....and I feel like I am being
> constantly gifted!
>
> 5. I didn't get it. I thought I did. But it's like mowing the lawn, or
> dishes, or laundry, or being their mom...it will always be evolving, because
> it isn't an it. It is life.
>
> I was compartmentalizing something, labelling it as having to do with this
> our that. But it isn't. It is about a 7.5 year old boy and a
> not-quite-five who love each other deeply and truly and sometimes have
> conflict. It is about being with them both as they are, in this moment.
> Respecting that. Loving that. And letting them see it and love it in each
> other.
>
> I hope that's it. That seems like it - but lately, assumptions don't seem
> solid. I don't know what I know..
>
> Thanks to everyone who was open enough to share...I learned more about
> myself than about the "problem". Somehow, I think that was maybe the
> point...?
>
> I am going to try to make tomorrow's chat about judgement and
> assumptions...can't wait to see what I'll be learning next!
>
> Intrigued,
> Shan


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- And, where before I was intersecting with them where I was, now I
am paying attention to remembering to intersect with them where they
are. -=-

This is big.

This is Monday/today:
-=- am going to try to make tomorrow's chat about judgement and
assumptions...can't wait to see what I'll be learning next! -=-

You assumed it was about assumptions. <g>

Comparisons and judgment. There's a countdown clock easily
accessible here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com
along with a video of Holly dancing downtown (well... "dancing" but
not Dancing) and some commentary on the state of my children.

-=-Thanks to everyone who was open enough to share...I learned more
about myself than about the "problem". Somehow, I think that was
maybe the point...?-=-

Another thing discussed a bit on Friday was whether one needs to "be
Zen" to any degree to get this. I've said MANY times on this list
"It's not about you." By that I meant the discussions here are not
to be an in depth analysis of any one person's situation, but of the
general principles. But what the purpose of the general principles
is is to change people's understanding. So it's all about you (the
plural "you" and the individual person who reads and thinks. Any one
thing that's written here or in the chat might just be noise, if
everyone knows it or doesn't get it yet or doesn't want to think about
it, but when one single person takes a phrase in and ruminates, then
it's all about her!!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

>>> 5. I didn't get it. I thought I did. But it's like mowing the lawn,
or dishes, or laundry, or being their mom...it will always be evolving,
because it isn't an it. It is life.
>
> I was compartmentalizing something, labelling it as having to do with
this our that. But it isn't. It is about a 7.5 year old boy and a
not-quite-five who love each other deeply and truly and sometimes have
conflict. It is about being with them both as they are, in this moment.
Respecting that. Loving that. And letting them see it and love it in
each other.>>>

This was a huge one for me! All that stuff we do in life is never a one
time and I'm finished sort of gig, and then do it all again next week.
Laundry is never "done", the clothing I'm wearing right now will be
dirty tomorrow. Games with kids are never done, they evolve and change
and grow and end up elsewhere. My kitchen may at any time be "clean"
for a moment before it gets used and dirtied up with food and eating.

Some people have a really hard time living with that state of flux.
Schools perpetuate that inflexibility, and parents try to incorporate it
into the lives of their families with cleaning schedules and chore
charts and dinner time and bed time.

My very own sister lives by a daily schedule because she states that it
is the only way that she will get things done. She even has a day set
aside for mending things. I have a button sitting on my desk that needs
to be sewn onto a pair of pants that Margaux always seems to be wearing.
It's been sitting there for at least 2 months. One day it may get sewn
on, and if it never does, nobody will be sad about the missing button,
since clearly the pants are still being lovingly used! My sister would
never allow for such things to occur at her house! That button would be
sewn on by now, probably after an argument with the child wanting to
wear those pants, to take them off to be mended. She would consider
that missing button to be me, being lazy about sewing a button on.

Sandra Dodd

-=-She would consider
that missing button to be me, being lazy about sewing a button on.-=-

So for her (maybe, if I'm reading it right) having a button on her
daughter's pants is about her-the-mom, not about the daughter.

That's where something changes with unschoolers, when they really make
that transition, is that when and if they *can* make it ("it" being
buttons and schedules and food and whether the lights are on or off)
about the child and not about the parent, like magic it become about
the mother being a generous provider of love.

Then the mom can feel deeply good about that, rather than looking at
her checklist to see if she's completed enough tasks to THINK she
feels good.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]