Are you a good mom, or a bad mom?
Sandra Dodd
(I don't know how this might apply to any individual dad.)
My best answer is "a mom trying to be a better mom all the time."
This morning on CBS Sunday Morning, there was an item on mom's doubts
and feelings they were being good moms. They talked about a website
where moms leave confessions of things they've done, called True Mom
Confessions. I didn't bring the link because I'm not planning to go
there. I think it would be upsetting and today's a moms-be-happy day!
One example they gave, though was a mom who said she didn't teach her
kids to tell time so she could tell them it was bedtime whenever she
wanted to.
Then the web owner defended those kinds of confessions saying "I don't
think there's anything to be gained from keeping a secret."
Roseanne Barr was interviewed about her TV show, a bit, and about her
real-life mothering (she has five children, some grown). She said of
course mothers feel guilty, but "Most of the time, or 100% of the
time, the reason you feel guilty is that you have a reason to feel
guilty." She wasn't being funny, she was being serious.
A woman who wrote a book called Bad Mom said for every letter she got
saying she was a terrible mother she got ten saying thank you. She
said it was a great comfort to know others had screwed up too.
All that reminded me of this list, and the policy of not saying "good
job!" or "don't worry" when moms come and tell us they're doing things
they know aren't good for their kids. And as to the quote about
keeping secrets above, it seems another time for one mom to absolve
other moms and say "Don't worry; just confess and you'll be forgiven."
Had the mom lived in such a way there were no secrets to keep, that
would be better. In the context of that article, it seemed that
lies told to other mothers (or information concealed) was the sin, not
the lies told to children. When she said "keeping a secret," she
wasn't talking about the secrets the mom was keeping from her children.
I know it's not Mother's Day everywhere today, but it is here, so
there will be a fair amount of information about idealized and
mainstream mothering poured out today.
Sandra
My best answer is "a mom trying to be a better mom all the time."
This morning on CBS Sunday Morning, there was an item on mom's doubts
and feelings they were being good moms. They talked about a website
where moms leave confessions of things they've done, called True Mom
Confessions. I didn't bring the link because I'm not planning to go
there. I think it would be upsetting and today's a moms-be-happy day!
One example they gave, though was a mom who said she didn't teach her
kids to tell time so she could tell them it was bedtime whenever she
wanted to.
Then the web owner defended those kinds of confessions saying "I don't
think there's anything to be gained from keeping a secret."
Roseanne Barr was interviewed about her TV show, a bit, and about her
real-life mothering (she has five children, some grown). She said of
course mothers feel guilty, but "Most of the time, or 100% of the
time, the reason you feel guilty is that you have a reason to feel
guilty." She wasn't being funny, she was being serious.
A woman who wrote a book called Bad Mom said for every letter she got
saying she was a terrible mother she got ten saying thank you. She
said it was a great comfort to know others had screwed up too.
All that reminded me of this list, and the policy of not saying "good
job!" or "don't worry" when moms come and tell us they're doing things
they know aren't good for their kids. And as to the quote about
keeping secrets above, it seems another time for one mom to absolve
other moms and say "Don't worry; just confess and you'll be forgiven."
Had the mom lived in such a way there were no secrets to keep, that
would be better. In the context of that article, it seemed that
lies told to other mothers (or information concealed) was the sin, not
the lies told to children. When she said "keeping a secret," she
wasn't talking about the secrets the mom was keeping from her children.
I know it's not Mother's Day everywhere today, but it is here, so
there will be a fair amount of information about idealized and
mainstream mothering poured out today.
Sandra
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Oprah did a show that touched some of that a few weeks ago. It was more about moms complaining about motherhood.
I personally was disgusted by it.
Not about moms saying they did not shower for a week. But all the self pity and the condescending tone when they spoke of their children.
They were confessions ....argh!
By the way., it is also mothers day on Brazil today.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I personally was disgusted by it.
Not about moms saying they did not shower for a week. But all the self pity and the condescending tone when they spoke of their children.
They were confessions ....argh!
By the way., it is also mothers day on Brazil today.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Last night Simon and Linnaea spent at a friends house, so it was just David and I at home. I missed them. It was too quiet and while David and I had a nice evening together and cuddle on the couch and watched silly shows and chatted, the house felt so empty without them.
Linnaea called this morning to say they wanted to come home early and asked if they could bring their friend and his younger brother (just 4 years old) home with them. They did. In the car they were playing a strange modified game of slug bug, where you get hit minis and for yellow things and convertibles and bikes and lots of things, vw bugs aren't frequent enough. And it was loud and both David and I were grinning and laughing and finding things and adding to their list.
They played a game of rounders (softball) and managed to hit the ball onto the top of a high hedge. I got the ladder and put it up and each of the kids climbed it and looked around and then I climbed and spotted the ball and climbed back down and moved it over and asked who wanted to get it. Their friend did and he climbed and got it and his brother squirted him with a squirt gun on his way down. As I was putting the ladder away Linnaea came up to me and said "you are really good with little kids, mom" and it felt so good to hear. And so sweet that she was watching and weighing and paying attention.
That's my mother's day story on the day when it isn't mother's day in the country where I live. I don't know if it marks me as a good mom or a bad mom. I think I'll just keep trying to make every moment a bit better. One day they won't be here and the house will be emptier most of the time. I figure I can do all the other stuff then.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Linnaea called this morning to say they wanted to come home early and asked if they could bring their friend and his younger brother (just 4 years old) home with them. They did. In the car they were playing a strange modified game of slug bug, where you get hit minis and for yellow things and convertibles and bikes and lots of things, vw bugs aren't frequent enough. And it was loud and both David and I were grinning and laughing and finding things and adding to their list.
They played a game of rounders (softball) and managed to hit the ball onto the top of a high hedge. I got the ladder and put it up and each of the kids climbed it and looked around and then I climbed and spotted the ball and climbed back down and moved it over and asked who wanted to get it. Their friend did and he climbed and got it and his brother squirted him with a squirt gun on his way down. As I was putting the ladder away Linnaea came up to me and said "you are really good with little kids, mom" and it felt so good to hear. And so sweet that she was watching and weighing and paying attention.
That's my mother's day story on the day when it isn't mother's day in the country where I live. I don't know if it marks me as a good mom or a bad mom. I think I'll just keep trying to make every moment a bit better. One day they won't be here and the house will be emptier most of the time. I figure I can do all the other stuff then.
Schuyler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Two missed words:
you don't "get hit minis", "you get hit for minis" and I climbed back down and moved the ladder over, not the ball or something else, I moved the ladder over.
________________________________
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
In the car they were playing a strange modified game of slug bug, where you get hit minis and for yellow things and convertibles and bikes and lots of things, vw bugs aren't frequent enough.
They played a game of rounders (softball) and managed to hit the ball onto the top of a high hedge. I got the ladder and put it up and each of the kids climbed it and looked around and then I climbed and spotted the ball and climbed back down and moved it over and asked who wanted to get it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you don't "get hit minis", "you get hit for minis" and I climbed back down and moved the ladder over, not the ball or something else, I moved the ladder over.
________________________________
From: Schuyler <s.waynforth@...>
In the car they were playing a strange modified game of slug bug, where you get hit minis and for yellow things and convertibles and bikes and lots of things, vw bugs aren't frequent enough.
They played a game of rounders (softball) and managed to hit the ball onto the top of a high hedge. I got the ladder and put it up and each of the kids climbed it and looked around and then I climbed and spotted the ball and climbed back down and moved it over and asked who wanted to get it.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Patti
I don't watch TV so I don't really know what the shows are that you
are all talking about but this subject touches me.
I am a person who does most things with earnestness, including
mothering. My intentions are good. My actions are often good.
Sometimes I mess up. I enjoy talking about my mess ups with other
moms. And sometimes we do laugh about how crazy it can be. It's a
relief not to keep it to myself- to put it under the microscope and
confess and decide what to keep and what to change, where it went
wrong and why. And to know that other moms I admire have their
moments too and what they did and thought. It's good to remember that
we are all human and trying and not alone in this hugely scary
business of mothering.
I never would laugh at hurting my child. I never would make fun of my
child. I would never make fun of another mother. I just think
mothering is a very serious business. Getting it right sometimes
feels exquisitely hard. I try to hold myself to a high standard. I
also believe something someone said and I forget who- "sometimes the
only to cope with something deadly serious is to treat it a little
lightly." Humor is one of the biggest and best tools in my tool box.
I am better at being being gentle and empathic with the children in my
life than myself.
are all talking about but this subject touches me.
I am a person who does most things with earnestness, including
mothering. My intentions are good. My actions are often good.
Sometimes I mess up. I enjoy talking about my mess ups with other
moms. And sometimes we do laugh about how crazy it can be. It's a
relief not to keep it to myself- to put it under the microscope and
confess and decide what to keep and what to change, where it went
wrong and why. And to know that other moms I admire have their
moments too and what they did and thought. It's good to remember that
we are all human and trying and not alone in this hugely scary
business of mothering.
I never would laugh at hurting my child. I never would make fun of my
child. I would never make fun of another mother. I just think
mothering is a very serious business. Getting it right sometimes
feels exquisitely hard. I try to hold myself to a high standard. I
also believe something someone said and I forget who- "sometimes the
only to cope with something deadly serious is to treat it a little
lightly." Humor is one of the biggest and best tools in my tool box.
I am better at being being gentle and empathic with the children in my
life than myself.
On May 10, 2009, at 6:59 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
>
> This morning on CBS Sunday Morning, there was an item on mom's doubts
> and feelings they were being good moms. They talked about a website
> where moms leave confessions of things they've done, called True Mom
> Confessions. I didn't bring the link because I'm not planning to go
> there. I think it would be upsetting and today's a moms-be-happy day!
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Verna
Last night, I went out to a movie with a friend. She was listing all the things her husband and kids were going to do for her today... let her sleep late, breakfast in bed, give the kids a bath, any chores that need to be done. Each Mother's Day, her husband takes care of everything so she can just sit around and rest.
When I got home, I, half joking, asked my husband if he was going to do all those things. His response... I am not so and so. So I lay in bed for a while, feeling sorry for myself, thinking of the things that need to be done today.
Well this morning, my husband did make me breakfast and then I got on here and read the last few posts about Mother's Day and realized, I got it all wrong. Today should be about how lucky I am to be a Mother. How lucky I am to get to do these things for my kids and how lucky I am to spend today and everyday with the best kids in the world (my opinion anyway), doing whatever it is that needs to be done for them. I have no interest in sitting around, being waited on... I am going to play, feed and nurture my kids.
When I got home, I, half joking, asked my husband if he was going to do all those things. His response... I am not so and so. So I lay in bed for a while, feeling sorry for myself, thinking of the things that need to be done today.
Well this morning, my husband did make me breakfast and then I got on here and read the last few posts about Mother's Day and realized, I got it all wrong. Today should be about how lucky I am to be a Mother. How lucky I am to get to do these things for my kids and how lucky I am to spend today and everyday with the best kids in the world (my opinion anyway), doing whatever it is that needs to be done for them. I have no interest in sitting around, being waited on... I am going to play, feed and nurture my kids.
Elizabeth
Thank you Patti & Sandra, both great posts to read this morning.
-- A Lurker :)
-- A Lurker :)
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have no interest in sitting around, being waited on... I am going
to play, feed and nurture my kids.-=-
I think when families give mom a day off, it's partly because ghe
assumption is that she's spent the other days doing things she "had
to" do. It's different when it's a choice.
I asked Holly to take a photo of me, her, and some ivy with a
history. I've put some of the photos here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2009/05/my-ivy-on-mothers-day.html
I figure Kirby will call me at some point. Other than that, it will
be another day with the regular good stuff.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to play, feed and nurture my kids.-=-
I think when families give mom a day off, it's partly because ghe
assumption is that she's spent the other days doing things she "had
to" do. It's different when it's a choice.
I asked Holly to take a photo of me, her, and some ivy with a
history. I've put some of the photos here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2009/05/my-ivy-on-mothers-day.html
I figure Kirby will call me at some point. Other than that, it will
be another day with the regular good stuff.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> This morning on CBS Sunday Morning, there was an item on mom's doubtsOn the chat on Friday, Schuyler mentioned an interview on This American
> and feelings they were being good moms. They talked about a website
> where moms leave confessions of things they've done, called True Mom
> Confessions.
Life called I Didn't Ask To Be Born
<http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1288> . I
listened to it because it was about teens running away, which is near
and dear to my heart right now.
> A woman who wrote a book called Bad Mom said for every letter she gotThe mother in the interview also wrote a book, which I haven't read and
> saying she was a terrible mother she got ten saying thank you. She
> said it was a great comfort to know others had screwed up too.
am still undecided as to wether I want to or not. She's comforting lots
of other mothers who's children have run away, but the bottom line is,
that every thing that I've read about this person suggests that she
doesn't know what she could've done to prevent her kids from running
away. She blames herself for sure, but still doesn't GET that she
could've prevented it all from the beginning if she'd done things
differently.
> Had the mom lived in such a way there were no secrets to keep, thatchildren.
> would be better. In the context of that article, it seemed that
> lies told to other mothers (or information concealed) was the sin, not
> the lies told to children. When she said "keeping a secret," she
> wasn't talking about the secrets the mom was keeping from her
I was just having this very conversation with Chamille's boyfriend, in
the car when I picked him up to come over and spend the day with us, not
his mother. He was telling me that the thing he dislikes most about his
mother and the thing he has the hardest time with, is that she lies
about everything. She lies and says she will do something and then drop
the ball, which he acknowledged that perhaps isn't an outright lie, but
clearly not nice anyway, but also that she lies about other things,
stupid things, everything really, to make herself look better in the
eyes of her son. To me, these are the lies that are the worst, the lies
told to children, in some attempt to make themselves seem better in the
eyes of their children.
> I know it's not Mother's Day everywhere today, but it is here, soI don't want anything to do with mainstream mothering! Cyle, Chamille's
> there will be a fair amount of information about idealized and
> mainstream mothering poured out today.
boyfriend, told me that Chamille doesn't say any of the things that all
his other friends say about their mothers. He told me that I'm a good
mother and that it shows in lots of ways, but mostly because my kids
think I'm a good mother, and that's what counts in motherhood!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I was just having this very conversation with Chamille's boyfriend,
in
the car when I picked him up to come over and spend the day with us, not
his mother. -=-
Yesterday when Marty was at work, his girlfriend came over to talk to
me, at my request. Marty had asked me to talk to her about some
attitude things, and I did. We were talking about how she could be a
happier person, and about what Marty meant when he told her that every
time he was with her he had chosen to be with her. (And she had
responded that yes, but every time he was NOT with her he had chosen
not to be with her.) And other problems.
But she cried some, and I felt bad, but she said she DID want to be
more like Marty, and be happier. She said the first time she came to
our house and saw how we were with each other she felt like she was in
another universe.
Brett's boyfriend lives here, though the plan is for him to move out
within the next couple of months. They'll still "be a couple." But
he got up and said "Happy Mother's Day!" with real feeling, and I
smiled a truly big, real smile. Probably he is obligated to take his
mother to dinner. I didn't ask. He doesn't enjoy being with his
mother, though.
On Wednesday, he and Holly and Marty and I are going to karaoke
together, and that's my Mother's Day outing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
in
the car when I picked him up to come over and spend the day with us, not
his mother. -=-
Yesterday when Marty was at work, his girlfriend came over to talk to
me, at my request. Marty had asked me to talk to her about some
attitude things, and I did. We were talking about how she could be a
happier person, and about what Marty meant when he told her that every
time he was with her he had chosen to be with her. (And she had
responded that yes, but every time he was NOT with her he had chosen
not to be with her.) And other problems.
But she cried some, and I felt bad, but she said she DID want to be
more like Marty, and be happier. She said the first time she came to
our house and saw how we were with each other she felt like she was in
another universe.
Brett's boyfriend lives here, though the plan is for him to move out
within the next couple of months. They'll still "be a couple." But
he got up and said "Happy Mother's Day!" with real feeling, and I
smiled a truly big, real smile. Probably he is obligated to take his
mother to dinner. I didn't ask. He doesn't enjoy being with his
mother, though.
On Wednesday, he and Holly and Marty and I are going to karaoke
together, and that's my Mother's Day outing.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
>Hmmmm a little kinky..... I had no idea.....
> Brett's boyfriend lives here, though the plan is for him to move out
> within the next couple of months. They'll still "be a couple."
Sandra Dodd
-=->
OH YEAH! I mixed people up a little. (Sorry...)
Brett, Holly's boyfriend, lives here.
Sheesh.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Brett's boyfriend lives here, though the plan is for him to move outHmmmm a little kinky..... I had no idea.....-=-
> within the next couple of months. They'll still "be a couple."
OH YEAH! I mixed people up a little. (Sorry...)
Brett, Holly's boyfriend, lives here.
Sheesh.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shannon D. Burton
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
This was my first Mother's Day with my husband. He is a chef, and that means Mother's Day Brunches - early mornings, gone all day, and home exhausted. Although it's always been this way, I selfishly let myself feel I was owed something special the second Sunday in May.
This year, Cinqo de Mayo fell on his regular day off, and it's a Latino restaurant. The trade-off for working it was today at home!
I fantasized about French toast and sausage in bed, a picnic lunch in a local park with fountains, springs, streams, ducks, aple room to run, and a carousel for Annalise. Then I'd get a blissful hour or two to shut myself in my room and write.
I was woken by a little girl who'd picked me a tulip and a lilac sprig, and was ready to go make me a card. Jim brought coffee in bed (he forgot to pick up eggs and sausage, but I don't really eat when I get up, anyway). We had conversation punctuated by cuddles and tickles, then got up to do some family work. The kids were up late last night, so there was quite a bit of creative byproduct to tend to. Jim scooped the yard, because he said I shouldn't need to do that on Mother's Day, and we wanted to mow.
He played with the kids, moved their climbing dome to where they wanted it, and did most of the back yard while I finished up Jeremiah's quarterly report. Even that has stopped being the burden it used to be only a few months ago. Now, I tell the school enough to satisfy them that learning is occurring here,although I could add so much more, as Jeremiah is blossoming since TV, computer, sleep, and food controls were lifted. I also enjoy seeing how he's grown since the last report, and remembering the indelible moments behind the dry "educationalese" the school seems to need.
That done, I went to take a turn mowing so Jim could do some motorcycle repair. But we were out of gas. and, in that moment, I felt my disappointment, and knew that I actually wanted to mow. Jim, my hero, went to the station to get more, and I read The Gas We Pass and Fancy Nancy's A to Z Book of Fancy Words to an intestine, vocabulary, and fashion loving Annalise, who was sad not to be going with Daddy...
Jeremiah was taking full advantage of Mom's laptop and its Internet to play Qubo, Funbrain, Poptropia, and Age of Empires II, which he deemed "the coolest game EVER!" I mowed "roads" for Annalise, who likes to follow directly behind me, holding my shirttails. She found a length of PVC pipe, christened it Little Black, and rode it round and round the yard, through the garage, with Corki the dog for a companion.
Annalise and I got to see the wires frying and the huge cloud of smoke when Jim shorted out the bike's circuitry (for the second time...he is frustrated, but thinking....). Scary-impressive.
We ordered Chinese, and made the kids a Chinese monkey platter. We all watched Star Trek, "The Trouble with Tribbles" because Miah wanted to, then part of "I,Mudd" (androids and miming and Mudd, oh my!) before Jim and the kids made me dark chocolate-dipped strawberries. Then Jim did hugs and tickles and "The Incredible Journey" with the kids, and I did get an hour or so to write before I went and helped Lise put all her babies in pajamas and beds, and wash and hang their laundry on the clothesline, and the boys did boy things.
Now Lise is asleep, Jeremiah is playing Caren Sandiego Mysteries Through Time and watching Friends, and Jim and I are winding down, watching M*A*S*H...
I am truly blessed.....this is what it's all about, isn't it...just the living, joyfully, freely, and in a way that honors us all...*BWG*
Wow!
Shannon
>Verry entertaining!
> -=->
> > Brett's boyfriend lives here, though the plan is for him to move out
> > within the next couple of months. They'll still "be a couple."
>
> Hmmmm a little kinky..... I had no idea.....-=-
>
> OH YEAH! I mixed people up a little. (Sorry...)
>
> Brett, Holly's boyfriend, lives here.
>
> Sheesh.
>
> Sandra
This was my first Mother's Day with my husband. He is a chef, and that means Mother's Day Brunches - early mornings, gone all day, and home exhausted. Although it's always been this way, I selfishly let myself feel I was owed something special the second Sunday in May.
This year, Cinqo de Mayo fell on his regular day off, and it's a Latino restaurant. The trade-off for working it was today at home!
I fantasized about French toast and sausage in bed, a picnic lunch in a local park with fountains, springs, streams, ducks, aple room to run, and a carousel for Annalise. Then I'd get a blissful hour or two to shut myself in my room and write.
I was woken by a little girl who'd picked me a tulip and a lilac sprig, and was ready to go make me a card. Jim brought coffee in bed (he forgot to pick up eggs and sausage, but I don't really eat when I get up, anyway). We had conversation punctuated by cuddles and tickles, then got up to do some family work. The kids were up late last night, so there was quite a bit of creative byproduct to tend to. Jim scooped the yard, because he said I shouldn't need to do that on Mother's Day, and we wanted to mow.
He played with the kids, moved their climbing dome to where they wanted it, and did most of the back yard while I finished up Jeremiah's quarterly report. Even that has stopped being the burden it used to be only a few months ago. Now, I tell the school enough to satisfy them that learning is occurring here,although I could add so much more, as Jeremiah is blossoming since TV, computer, sleep, and food controls were lifted. I also enjoy seeing how he's grown since the last report, and remembering the indelible moments behind the dry "educationalese" the school seems to need.
That done, I went to take a turn mowing so Jim could do some motorcycle repair. But we were out of gas. and, in that moment, I felt my disappointment, and knew that I actually wanted to mow. Jim, my hero, went to the station to get more, and I read The Gas We Pass and Fancy Nancy's A to Z Book of Fancy Words to an intestine, vocabulary, and fashion loving Annalise, who was sad not to be going with Daddy...
Jeremiah was taking full advantage of Mom's laptop and its Internet to play Qubo, Funbrain, Poptropia, and Age of Empires II, which he deemed "the coolest game EVER!" I mowed "roads" for Annalise, who likes to follow directly behind me, holding my shirttails. She found a length of PVC pipe, christened it Little Black, and rode it round and round the yard, through the garage, with Corki the dog for a companion.
Annalise and I got to see the wires frying and the huge cloud of smoke when Jim shorted out the bike's circuitry (for the second time...he is frustrated, but thinking....). Scary-impressive.
We ordered Chinese, and made the kids a Chinese monkey platter. We all watched Star Trek, "The Trouble with Tribbles" because Miah wanted to, then part of "I,Mudd" (androids and miming and Mudd, oh my!) before Jim and the kids made me dark chocolate-dipped strawberries. Then Jim did hugs and tickles and "The Incredible Journey" with the kids, and I did get an hour or so to write before I went and helped Lise put all her babies in pajamas and beds, and wash and hang their laundry on the clothesline, and the boys did boy things.
Now Lise is asleep, Jeremiah is playing Caren Sandiego Mysteries Through Time and watching Friends, and Jim and I are winding down, watching M*A*S*H...
I am truly blessed.....this is what it's all about, isn't it...just the living, joyfully, freely, and in a way that honors us all...*BWG*
Wow!
Shannon
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
k
I had a wonderful mother's day here too. I am visiting friends on a
mini-vacation and am up early today and yesterday (my continuing sleep saga
is really very comic but that's another story). Unfortunately Brian was
tied up with several projects so we missed him but other than that it was
our day just as I like it to be.
Karl and I went to the park yesterday but first hit the grocery store
because our friend Micki that we're staying with had a tootsie roll pop on
her desk and I told him about blow pops (bubble gum in the middle for places
without those). We didn't find any at the store but there was bubble gum
and I showed him how I blow bubbles and he figured out some about that and
the sugar was fun by itself. I found grape soda which I haven't had in
years. It was warm weather so that went down nicely.
We try to go to Hands On children's museum when we come to Johnson City TN,
one of Karl's favorite places, so we were there until closing at 4:30. He
had a blast and I had fun talking with a fellow art grad from ETSU who works
there. She told me the coolest story about a boy who was a regular visitor
there and very quiet. Then one day she turned on some Elvis videos over the
projectors and the boy (then 7 years old) who has had a fascination for
anything Elvis since he was 3, got up a did a great impression of Elvis.
The next time he visited, he brought a couple of his Elvis outfits and did
12 songs with a guitar.
Then Karl and I walked to the park after a short rest at Micki's. They're
probably old news but I was totally bowled over by the ripboards I'm seeing
kids skating on around here. Karl watched an older boy shooting basketball,
which he seems suddenly much more interested in. I'm thinking to put up the
hoop we have at home down low enough so he can try that whole thing out.
The regulation hoops being pretty high up.
We went to a birthday party and naturally I got the time totally mixed up
and wasn't there very long at all but it was a lot of fun and I took some
pictures which were a hoot. Then we went back to my friend's house and
watched some tv and talked and hung out for a while and to bed. What a day!
~Katherine
exhausted. Although it's always been this way, I selfishly let myself feel
I was owed something special the second Sunday in May.
carousel for Annalise. Then I'd get a blissful hour or two to shut myself
in my room and write.
pick up eggs and sausage, but I don't really eat when I get up, anyway). We
had conversation punctuated by cuddles and tickles, then got up to do some
family work. The kids were up late last night, so there was quite a bit of
creative byproduct to tend to. Jim scooped the yard, because he said I
shouldn't need to do that on Mother's Day, and we wanted to mow.
report. Even that has stopped being the burden it used to be only a few
months ago. Now, I tell the school enough to satisfy them that learning is
occurring here,although I could add so much more, as Jeremiah is blossoming
since TV, computer, sleep, and food controls were lifted. I also enjoy
seeing how he's grown since the last report, and remembering the indelible
moments behind the dry "educationalese" the school seems to need.
disappointment, and knew that I actually wanted to mow. Jim, my hero, went
to the station to get more, and I read The Gas We Pass and Fancy Nancy's A
to Z Book of Fancy Words to an intestine, vocabulary, and fashion loving
Annalise, who was sad not to be going with Daddy...
coolest game EVER!" I mowed "roads" for Annalise, who likes to follow
directly behind me, holding my shirttails. She found a length of PVC pipe,
christened it Little Black, and rode it round and round the yard, through
the garage, with Corki the dog for a companion.
frustrated, but thinking....). Scary-impressive.
part of "I,Mudd" (androids and miming and Mudd, oh my!) before Jim and the
kids made me dark chocolate-dipped strawberries. Then Jim did hugs and
tickles and "The Incredible Journey" with the kids, and I did get an hour or
so to write before I went and helped Lise put all her babies in pajamas and
beds, and wash and hang their laundry on the clothesline, and the boys did
boy things.
M*A*S*H...
mini-vacation and am up early today and yesterday (my continuing sleep saga
is really very comic but that's another story). Unfortunately Brian was
tied up with several projects so we missed him but other than that it was
our day just as I like it to be.
Karl and I went to the park yesterday but first hit the grocery store
because our friend Micki that we're staying with had a tootsie roll pop on
her desk and I told him about blow pops (bubble gum in the middle for places
without those). We didn't find any at the store but there was bubble gum
and I showed him how I blow bubbles and he figured out some about that and
the sugar was fun by itself. I found grape soda which I haven't had in
years. It was warm weather so that went down nicely.
We try to go to Hands On children's museum when we come to Johnson City TN,
one of Karl's favorite places, so we were there until closing at 4:30. He
had a blast and I had fun talking with a fellow art grad from ETSU who works
there. She told me the coolest story about a boy who was a regular visitor
there and very quiet. Then one day she turned on some Elvis videos over the
projectors and the boy (then 7 years old) who has had a fascination for
anything Elvis since he was 3, got up a did a great impression of Elvis.
The next time he visited, he brought a couple of his Elvis outfits and did
12 songs with a guitar.
Then Karl and I walked to the park after a short rest at Micki's. They're
probably old news but I was totally bowled over by the ripboards I'm seeing
kids skating on around here. Karl watched an older boy shooting basketball,
which he seems suddenly much more interested in. I'm thinking to put up the
hoop we have at home down low enough so he can try that whole thing out.
The regulation hoops being pretty high up.
We went to a birthday party and naturally I got the time totally mixed up
and wasn't there very long at all but it was a lot of fun and I took some
pictures which were a hoot. Then we went back to my friend's house and
watched some tv and talked and hung out for a while and to bed. What a day!
~Katherine
> This was my first Mother's Day with my husband. He is a chef, and thatmeans Mother's Day Brunches - early mornings, gone all day, and home
exhausted. Although it's always been this way, I selfishly let myself feel
I was owed something special the second Sunday in May.
>restaurant. The trade-off for working it was today at home!
> This year, Cinqo de Mayo fell on his regular day off, and it's a Latino
>local park with fountains, springs, streams, ducks, aple room to run, and a
> I fantasized about French toast and sausage in bed, a picnic lunch in a
carousel for Annalise. Then I'd get a blissful hour or two to shut myself
in my room and write.
>and was ready to go make me a card. Jim brought coffee in bed (he forgot to
> I was woken by a little girl who'd picked me a tulip and a lilac sprig,
pick up eggs and sausage, but I don't really eat when I get up, anyway). We
had conversation punctuated by cuddles and tickles, then got up to do some
family work. The kids were up late last night, so there was quite a bit of
creative byproduct to tend to. Jim scooped the yard, because he said I
shouldn't need to do that on Mother's Day, and we wanted to mow.
>it, and did most of the back yard while I finished up Jeremiah's quarterly
> He played with the kids, moved their climbing dome to where they wanted
report. Even that has stopped being the burden it used to be only a few
months ago. Now, I tell the school enough to satisfy them that learning is
occurring here,although I could add so much more, as Jeremiah is blossoming
since TV, computer, sleep, and food controls were lifted. I also enjoy
seeing how he's grown since the last report, and remembering the indelible
moments behind the dry "educationalese" the school seems to need.
>repair. But we were out of gas. and, in that moment, I felt my
> That done, I went to take a turn mowing so Jim could do some motorcycle
disappointment, and knew that I actually wanted to mow. Jim, my hero, went
to the station to get more, and I read The Gas We Pass and Fancy Nancy's A
to Z Book of Fancy Words to an intestine, vocabulary, and fashion loving
Annalise, who was sad not to be going with Daddy...
>play Qubo, Funbrain, Poptropia, and Age of Empires II, which he deemed "the
> Jeremiah was taking full advantage of Mom's laptop and its Internet to
coolest game EVER!" I mowed "roads" for Annalise, who likes to follow
directly behind me, holding my shirttails. She found a length of PVC pipe,
christened it Little Black, and rode it round and round the yard, through
the garage, with Corki the dog for a companion.
>when Jim shorted out the bike's circuitry (for the second time...he is
> Annalise and I got to see the wires frying and the huge cloud of smoke
frustrated, but thinking....). Scary-impressive.
>watched Star Trek, "The Trouble with Tribbles" because Miah wanted to, then
> We ordered Chinese, and made the kids a Chinese monkey platter. We all
part of "I,Mudd" (androids and miming and Mudd, oh my!) before Jim and the
kids made me dark chocolate-dipped strawberries. Then Jim did hugs and
tickles and "The Incredible Journey" with the kids, and I did get an hour or
so to write before I went and helped Lise put all her babies in pajamas and
beds, and wash and hang their laundry on the clothesline, and the boys did
boy things.
>Time and watching Friends, and Jim and I are winding down, watching
> Now Lise is asleep, Jeremiah is playing Caren Sandiego Mysteries Through
M*A*S*H...
>living, joyfully, freely, and in a way that honors us all...*BWG*
> I am truly blessed.....this is what it's all about, isn't it...just the
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Wow!
> Shannon
Verna
My husband woke me up yestereday. Brought me an omelet and the kids brought me flowers that he had helped them plant in pots with their names and cards they had drawn. I took a nice shower with water from our newly installed hot water heater. It had taken a week to have it installed so I enjoyed that shower. I straitened up the kids bedrooms, went outside and let them showoff their new tricks on the swing set, got them snacks and packed up for a picnic. We all went to Lowes and bought a new toilet for our downstairs bathroom. My 6 year old had also been asking for a clip on light for his bed so we got that too.
Then we picked up KFC and headed for a nice few hours at the park. My husband played basketball with whoever would play and everyone else just ran and ran. It was all very nice and relaxing.
After we got home I filled the car with stuff for the salvation army and took my two middle kids with me. We droped the stuff off and went to Old Navy, armed with 2 coupons totally 15 dollars. My daughter wanted some flip flops and my son has been wearing cut off sweatpants everywhere lately so I thought perhaps some basketball shorts might have a similiar feel and be a little more dressy for dressier times. They both saw some superhero t shirts and my son asked if he could have a batman one. I asked if he would rather have the shirt than the basketball outfit and he declined, saying he actually has 2 batman shirts at home. Then they saw a Superman shirt and asked if we could get it for their little brother at home. I thought this was a sweat request and I did know how much he would love it so we got that too.
He did really love the shirt. The rest of the day was trying out the new toilet my husband installed why we were at the store, playing in the yard, watching t.v., playing roblox, ending with James Bond and carrying a couple tired boys to bed.
Great day!
Then we picked up KFC and headed for a nice few hours at the park. My husband played basketball with whoever would play and everyone else just ran and ran. It was all very nice and relaxing.
After we got home I filled the car with stuff for the salvation army and took my two middle kids with me. We droped the stuff off and went to Old Navy, armed with 2 coupons totally 15 dollars. My daughter wanted some flip flops and my son has been wearing cut off sweatpants everywhere lately so I thought perhaps some basketball shorts might have a similiar feel and be a little more dressy for dressier times. They both saw some superhero t shirts and my son asked if he could have a batman one. I asked if he would rather have the shirt than the basketball outfit and he declined, saying he actually has 2 batman shirts at home. Then they saw a Superman shirt and asked if we could get it for their little brother at home. I thought this was a sweat request and I did know how much he would love it so we got that too.
He did really love the shirt. The rest of the day was trying out the new toilet my husband installed why we were at the store, playing in the yard, watching t.v., playing roblox, ending with James Bond and carrying a couple tired boys to bed.
Great day!
carenkh
I teach in my church's preschool RE (religious education) class. There is a family whose 2 daughters are in my class, they are just-turned-5 and 3. The three-year-old is delightfully energetic, she wants to play, play, play and provoke others into playing. We have a circle time where we act out a story with manipulatives, and she has a HARD time not bugging others during that time. I handle it in different ways, depending on what she's doing, what she seems to need, etc. I've wondered about offering the parents information about respectful, connected parenting. I couldn't think of how to do it.
I have thought for a while that the principles of my religion, Unitarian Universalism, lend themselves very well to radical unschooling. For example, the first principle is that we believe in the inherent worth and dignity of every person. I have fantasized about holding adult education classes in my church about radical unschooling, or maybe consensual living or whatever I would call it, actually, because I think a lot of parents would be more willing to look at their relationship with their kids than they would look at taking their kids out of school. It's been in my mind to write up a little something about the principles and parenting, and have workshops about it. We have workshops about a very diverse range of topics throughout the year... I've thought about it, but never done anything about it.
I got word Saturday that the five year old of that family was accidentally given a higher dose of some medication she's taking; it's highly toxic, and she was in the ICU, with some question of whether she would make it or not. I still haven't heard how she is, I'm going to call her aunt (also a member of the church) later today. I'm thinking no news is good news, for now.
There's something about this, that's pushing me toward moving forward with the writing and the workshops. Maybe it's... if the worst were to happen, and her parents had come to the workshop and started living the principles, her last days would have been more peaceful and connected than they might have been.
I'm a little bit in awe of people who "put themselves out there" in the unschooling world. There's a lot of misinformation and harsh criticism, and I think that's one reason why I haven't done this - I don't want to make myself a target. But it's not about me, is it? It's about the very energetic three year old, and her just-turned-five sister, who deserve to be accepted and celebrated for who they are.
My thoughts this morning -
Caren
I have thought for a while that the principles of my religion, Unitarian Universalism, lend themselves very well to radical unschooling. For example, the first principle is that we believe in the inherent worth and dignity of every person. I have fantasized about holding adult education classes in my church about radical unschooling, or maybe consensual living or whatever I would call it, actually, because I think a lot of parents would be more willing to look at their relationship with their kids than they would look at taking their kids out of school. It's been in my mind to write up a little something about the principles and parenting, and have workshops about it. We have workshops about a very diverse range of topics throughout the year... I've thought about it, but never done anything about it.
I got word Saturday that the five year old of that family was accidentally given a higher dose of some medication she's taking; it's highly toxic, and she was in the ICU, with some question of whether she would make it or not. I still haven't heard how she is, I'm going to call her aunt (also a member of the church) later today. I'm thinking no news is good news, for now.
There's something about this, that's pushing me toward moving forward with the writing and the workshops. Maybe it's... if the worst were to happen, and her parents had come to the workshop and started living the principles, her last days would have been more peaceful and connected than they might have been.
I'm a little bit in awe of people who "put themselves out there" in the unschooling world. There's a lot of misinformation and harsh criticism, and I think that's one reason why I haven't done this - I don't want to make myself a target. But it's not about me, is it? It's about the very energetic three year old, and her just-turned-five sister, who deserve to be accepted and celebrated for who they are.
My thoughts this morning -
Caren
Marcy
I hope you all enjoyed your Mothers Day yesterday.
I had a really nice day because I just let it be all about our family and not about "what you are supposed to do and get" on Mothers Day.
I woke up with the girls to hugs and cuddles,hubby had gone out early to do the wash and when he came back ,was back for about 15 min didnt say anything about mothers day at all and I admit I felt sad that he didnt say anything and then I felt silly because I went into the kitchen and there were 3 peach carnations,one from him and one from each of my girls and my heart just melted.
we then went to a ceramic place and they each got to make something and it was so nice to just let them paint,the owner asked them to use smocks to which they said "no-we like getting paint on us",the helper in the store tried to convince them to use certain paint colors to "make the picture look the way it is supposed to" to which they said "No" in the end we all had a blast and later found out that the owner was homeschooled herself all her life in upstate NY and thought it was great that we were doing the same.
we then went to see my parents and my grandmother for dinner. after the blow up with my sister and her husband last month,I told my Mom I would love to come see her to celebrate after they all left,she still doesnt get why I cant get over it,and be unhappy for the familys sake but she agreed and we all had a nice time. I tried to tell her Mothers Day is every day and I dont need to see her on this particular day to show her I love her,I see her every other day anyway,lol but again in the end said it would be fine for us to come in the evening when they had left. I felt so at peace for standing up for myself and requesting this.
I hope you all had a special day
I had a really nice day because I just let it be all about our family and not about "what you are supposed to do and get" on Mothers Day.
I woke up with the girls to hugs and cuddles,hubby had gone out early to do the wash and when he came back ,was back for about 15 min didnt say anything about mothers day at all and I admit I felt sad that he didnt say anything and then I felt silly because I went into the kitchen and there were 3 peach carnations,one from him and one from each of my girls and my heart just melted.
we then went to a ceramic place and they each got to make something and it was so nice to just let them paint,the owner asked them to use smocks to which they said "no-we like getting paint on us",the helper in the store tried to convince them to use certain paint colors to "make the picture look the way it is supposed to" to which they said "No" in the end we all had a blast and later found out that the owner was homeschooled herself all her life in upstate NY and thought it was great that we were doing the same.
we then went to see my parents and my grandmother for dinner. after the blow up with my sister and her husband last month,I told my Mom I would love to come see her to celebrate after they all left,she still doesnt get why I cant get over it,and be unhappy for the familys sake but she agreed and we all had a nice time. I tried to tell her Mothers Day is every day and I dont need to see her on this particular day to show her I love her,I see her every other day anyway,lol but again in the end said it would be fine for us to come in the evening when they had left. I felt so at peace for standing up for myself and requesting this.
I hope you all had a special day
bigandlittle6
> My best answer is "a mom trying to be a better mom all the time."This whole posting made no sense to me, but I'm trying to piece it together. I apologize in advance if someone else has brought this up in the replies, I don't have time to read them.
>
> This morning on CBS Sunday Morning, there was an item on mom's doubts
> and feelings they were being good moms.
How can people keep perpetuating the idea that there is even such thing as a "good" mom, or a "bad" mom?
In practicing nonviolent communication with myself, my kids, my husband, my friends, etc.. I am trying to make any ideas of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "bad", non existent. As human beings, we are never "one thing" all the time. You can't "be" a good mom, or "be" a bad mom. Just like you would probably agree not to label any child "good" or "bad".
On any given day, we choose to do things that meet our/our children's needs, or things that don't meet our/our children's needs. We have the power to make different choices in every moment of every day, and we're always changing what we're doing as our/our children's needs change.
For example, maybe I played with my children today more than I cleaned the house. Is that "good"? Not necessarily. Perhaps it met my children's needs for fun, attention, play, affection. This is wonderful. But perhaps it didn't meet my needs for order, organization, cleanliness. Is that a "bad" thing? Not necessarily. These are simply examples of needs that are being met and not met. The time has come to start thinking outside of the box, drop the old language and make that paradigm shift.
Labeling anything "good" or "bad" is using the old, power-over, static language, that does a very ineffective job at saying what is REALLY happening. Human beings are far from static. Our feelings and needs are changing constantly.
Please, look deeper than those terms "good" and "bad", to the underlying needs that are being met or not met in a relationship or in a situation. Then, look deeper at the reason each of us choose to do the things we do. Get empowered to move beyond simplistic judgments of each other and instead, ask what needs we are trying to meet through the choices we are observing. Then and only then can we work together to find a way to help each other find a way to meet everyone's needs (children's included), more often.
And one last note: I hear people every single day, confusing thoughts as feelings. When a mother is saying "I am a bad mom", she is not FEELING she is a bad mom, she is THINKING it. Her feelings might be: guilt, shame, depression, sadness, loneliness, disappointment....
It's important to distinguish between our judgments of ourselves, and our FEELINGS about ourselves (which stem from those thoughts). If we are not aware of our thinking and our judgments, how can we possibly work to change them? Feelings are all valid. Judgments are something we make up in our head, they are not automatically true just because we've tricked ourselves into thinking them.
I have been lurking on this list for awhile now and have been frustrated on so many occasions because I find myself unable to connect with the language so frequently used here. I have wanted to recommend to members on this list to look into some basic nonviolent communication skills www.cnvc.org as I believe it would be really helpful for all. I am saying this because I am guessing you are a group who value learning and growth and openness, which I'm guessing
is a big reason why you choose to "unschool" your children. I don't see how this life of freedom can truly continue if we are holding on to the old violent language with ourselves, each other and our families.
They talked about a website
> where moms leave confessions of things they've done, called True Mom
> Confessions. I didn't bring the link because I'm not planning to go
> there. I think it would be upsetting and today's a moms-be-happy day!
>
> One example they gave, though was a mom who said she didn't teach her
> kids to tell time so she could tell them it was bedtime whenever she
> wanted to.
>
> Then the web owner defended those kinds of confessions saying "I don't
> think there's anything to be gained from keeping a secret."
>
> Roseanne Barr was interviewed about her TV show, a bit, and about her
> real-life mothering (she has five children, some grown). She said of
> course mothers feel guilty, but "Most of the time, or 100% of the
> time, the reason you feel guilty is that you have a reason to feel
> guilty." She wasn't being funny, she was being serious.
>
> A woman who wrote a book called Bad Mom said for every letter she got
> saying she was a terrible mother she got ten saying thank you. She
> said it was a great comfort to know others had screwed up too.
>
> All that reminded me of this list, and the policy of not saying "good
> job!" or "don't worry" when moms come and tell us they're doing things
> they know aren't good for their kids. And as to the quote about
> keeping secrets above, it seems another time for one mom to absolve
> other moms and say "Don't worry; just confess and you'll be forgiven."
>
> Had the mom lived in such a way there were no secrets to keep, that
> would be better. In the context of that article, it seemed that
> lies told to other mothers (or information concealed) was the sin, not
> the lies told to children. When she said "keeping a secret," she
> wasn't talking about the secrets the mom was keeping from her children.
>
> I know it's not Mother's Day everywhere today, but it is here, so
> there will be a fair amount of information about idealized and
> mainstream mothering poured out today.
>
> Sandra
>
Patti
> this is kind of how i've been feeling with this discussion. thanks[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> for taking it on.
>
> ******In practicing nonviolent communication with myself, my kids,
> my husband, my friends, etc.. I am trying to make any ideas of
> "right" and "wrong", "good" and "bad", non existent. As human
> beings, we are never "one thing" all the time. You can't "be" a good
> mom, or "be" a bad mom. Just like you would probably agree not to
> label any child "good" or "bad"******
>
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
How can people keep perpetuating the idea that there is even such thing as a "good" mom, or a "bad" mom?
-=-=-=-=-
Yes there are bad moms. Not the ones who screw up here and there but really bad moms.
Moms that starve their kids, abusive moms, moms that kill their and moms that let others even kill their kids.
To say there is not GOOD or BAD is not real.
I have read about NVC and it has given me some tools for communicating some times.
There will be a live chat today on comparisons and judgment and it may be a good idea to go discuss this at that time.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-=-=-=-
Yes there are bad moms. Not the ones who screw up here and there but really bad moms.
Moms that starve their kids, abusive moms, moms that kill their and moms that let others even kill their kids.
To say there is not GOOD or BAD is not real.
I have read about NVC and it has given me some tools for communicating some times.
There will be a live chat today on comparisons and judgment and it may be a good idea to go discuss this at that time.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> > My best answer is "a mom trying to be a better mom all the time."doubts
> >
> > This morning on CBS Sunday Morning, there was an item on mom's
> > and feelings they were being good moms.together. I apologize in advance if someone else has brought this up in
>
>
> This whole posting made no sense to me, but I'm trying to piece it
the replies, I don't have time to read them.
>thing as a "good" mom, or a "bad" mom?
> How can people keep perpetuating the idea that there is even such
>Who's perpetuating this? The answer above of "a mom trying to be a
better mom all the time.", would suggest exactly the opposite of
perpetuating such things as being a "good" mom or a "bad" mom.
>>> In practicing nonviolent communication with myself, my kids, myhusband, my friends, etc.. I am trying to make any ideas of "right" and
"wrong", "good" and "bad", non existent. As human beings, we are never
"one thing" all the time. You can't "be" a good mom, or "be" a bad mom.
Just like you would probably agree not to label any child "good" or
"bad".>>>
I'm sure that I agree with this assessment of human nature. Of course
all humans have the potential to be many many things, and even a person
on death row, may not be a "bad" person, but someone who's done
something bad, but I have met some pretty bad parents, and the same
might apply to the person on death row.
These parents aren't trying to be better all the time, and perhaps
aren't really trying at all to be anything remotely close to being a
good parent, aren't even aware of what makes a parent good or bad.
Sure, I can feel compassion for someone that isn't "getting" it, they
may be good people that are terribly misguided in their parenting
skills, but it doesn't make them any less a "bad" parent.
Good and bad are polar opposite, like yin/yang, they can't exist without
the other for comparison, and all inbetween there are millions of other
ways to see things. So, while most things can be seen with all the
other millions of ways of seeing things, I do believe that good and bad
are still equally valid descriptors, with or without looking deeper into
those terms.
>>> Please, look deeper than those terms "good" and "bad", to theunderlying needs that are being met or not met in a relationship or in a
situation. Then, look deeper at the reason each of us choose to do the
things we do. Get empowered to move beyond simplistic judgments of each
other and instead, ask what needs we are trying to meet through the
choices we are observing. >>>
You might be interested in a discussion chat today about judgement and
comparisons... http://sandradodd.com/chats/
<http://sandradodd.com/chats/>
It is at 3pm mountain time, 2pm pacific, 5 eastern, and there are other
time zones listed on that link.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> Yes there are bad moms. Not the ones who screw up here and there butreally bad moms.
> Moms that starve their kids, abusive moms, moms that kill their andmoms that let others even kill their kids.
> To say there is not GOOD or BAD is not real.Yes, exactly! I was thinking the same thing. There really are people
that do really really bad things to others, some of the them parents
doing really bad things to their kids. They are not good parents.
Perhaps they are good typists or good baseball players, but certainly
not good parents!
Jenny C
>perpetuating the same violence that you are referring to with your
>>> Choosing to moralistically judge others as good or bad is merely
description of "real bad moms".
>labeled by people like you. If you choose not to be part of the
> These moms will also perpetuate their behavior when they find they are
solution, you choose to be part of the problem. If you
choose/enjoy/insist on calling your definitions hard, fast and true
about other people, be prepared to apply the same "rules" to
yourself.>>>
Whoa! Why would you assume that "people like you" aren't doing anything
to be part of a solution? Simply stating that there really are some
truly bad parents out there, doesn't mean that nobody here is NOT trying
to love up some of these folks and show them better ways.
I am doing just that on a regular basis. The simple act of being the
best mom that I can be, and truly working on being better at it, allows
my own children to help others. We are confronted regularly by hurting
people that we love up and help out, most of them kids from families
with parents that are not so great. We are only able to do this because
my husband and I have found a better way to parent and bless our kids
with our choices to be good parents.
Sandra Dodd
-=
Wow!
Shannon -=-
Great big wow, on your mother's day report, Shannon.
Holly asked me before she left for work whether I wanted anything else
for mother's day. She had done photos of us the day before, and said
"Happy Mother's Day." I said no, it was great, and I didn't need
anything.
When she came home from work she brought me chocolate things.
Cookies from Germany (from Walgreen's) and truffles from Starbucks.
Very sweet.
I think a solidly normal day can be the BEST once a mom has figured
how wonderful a good normal day can be!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wow!
Shannon -=-
Great big wow, on your mother's day report, Shannon.
Holly asked me before she left for work whether I wanted anything else
for mother's day. She had done photos of us the day before, and said
"Happy Mother's Day." I said no, it was great, and I didn't need
anything.
When she came home from work she brought me chocolate things.
Cookies from Germany (from Walgreen's) and truffles from Starbucks.
Very sweet.
I think a solidly normal day can be the BEST once a mom has figured
how wonderful a good normal day can be!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 5/11/2009 5:13 AM, carenkh wrote:
it. Mostly people are not critical or mean directly"in our face" - in
person, but people do feel free to be that way by email. I'm not really
affected by it - for someone who spent her childhood constantly getting
"hurt feelings," I'm not offended these days, that's for sure. To be
honest, I don't even quite understand the concept of being offended.
Mostly I truly feel bad for the person who is living in a world where it
makes sense to send hateful email to me when they could just delete and
ignore. I'm not imposing myself on them, ever. I always wish there was
something I could say back that would help them be happier.
I do try to be really clear in my in-person talk titles and descriptions
that I will be talking about radical unschooling. I sometimes start with
a sort of "take what makes sense to you, leave the rest" comment - it
depends on my audience, but for an audience that is most definitely not
composed of people already trying to unschool - when a lot are
conventional homeschoolers just kind of interested in hearing a little
about unschooling, I try to disarm them a bit so that they don't jump
right into resistance mode. Also, I start out always talking about
radical unschooling in terms of the positives without dwelling much on
the negatives of conventional parenting.
-pam
> I'm a little bit in awe of people who "put themselves out there" in the unschooling world. There's a lot of misinformation and harsh criticism, and I think that's one reason why I haven't done this - I don't want to make myself a target. But it's not about me, is it? It's about the very energetic three year old, and her just-turned-five sister, who deserve to be accepted and celebrated for who they are.Sandra is much more of a target than i am, but I've experienced some of
>
it. Mostly people are not critical or mean directly"in our face" - in
person, but people do feel free to be that way by email. I'm not really
affected by it - for someone who spent her childhood constantly getting
"hurt feelings," I'm not offended these days, that's for sure. To be
honest, I don't even quite understand the concept of being offended.
Mostly I truly feel bad for the person who is living in a world where it
makes sense to send hateful email to me when they could just delete and
ignore. I'm not imposing myself on them, ever. I always wish there was
something I could say back that would help them be happier.
I do try to be really clear in my in-person talk titles and descriptions
that I will be talking about radical unschooling. I sometimes start with
a sort of "take what makes sense to you, leave the rest" comment - it
depends on my audience, but for an audience that is most definitely not
composed of people already trying to unschool - when a lot are
conventional homeschoolers just kind of interested in hearing a little
about unschooling, I try to disarm them a bit so that they don't jump
right into resistance mode. Also, I start out always talking about
radical unschooling in terms of the positives without dwelling much on
the negatives of conventional parenting.
-pam
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
Choosing to moralistically judge others as good or bad is merely perpetuating the same violence that you are referring to with your description of "real bad moms".
These moms will also perpetuate their behavior when they find they are labeled by people like you. If you choose not to be part of the solution, you choose to be part of the problem. If you choose/enjoy/ insist on calling your definitions hard, fast and true about other people, be prepared to apply the same "rules" to yourself.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So because I think it is bad to abuse your child I am perpetuating the same violence?
How does that work?
So moms that abuse their kids do so because people like me label them bad?
Really? WOW.
Yes I do apply the same "rules" to myself.
Every day I think about how I treat my children and I strive to do better the next time. EVERY TIME. EVERYDAY.
I do judge my actions and reactions to my kids. I don't chuck it out to " I am doing the best I can" or " I was in pain so I inflicted pain on my children"
I don't look for excuses. When I come to lists like this I look to do better and get called on by moms I respect to do better.
I have called friends like Kelly Lovejoy and Schuyler Waynforth to ask for help. I did not expect them to say to me I was doing my best or I was in pain or any other excuse. I know they would help me do better next time by pointing out what and how to do better not that I did my best.
It is not to say that moms here, much less me, are always perfect and don't go wrong at moments.
I know I do a lot. But I DO judge what I did WRONG and I try to do BETTER and apologize to my kids for it.
I think we all have a choice and if we choose to abuse our kids , no matter why we do it, it is still a choice.
Many moms had horrible childhoods full of abuse and pain. They choose to do better with their children.
I know a few wonderful moms like that.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
These moms will also perpetuate their behavior when they find they are labeled by people like you. If you choose not to be part of the solution, you choose to be part of the problem. If you choose/enjoy/ insist on calling your definitions hard, fast and true about other people, be prepared to apply the same "rules" to yourself.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
So because I think it is bad to abuse your child I am perpetuating the same violence?
How does that work?
So moms that abuse their kids do so because people like me label them bad?
Really? WOW.
Yes I do apply the same "rules" to myself.
Every day I think about how I treat my children and I strive to do better the next time. EVERY TIME. EVERYDAY.
I do judge my actions and reactions to my kids. I don't chuck it out to " I am doing the best I can" or " I was in pain so I inflicted pain on my children"
I don't look for excuses. When I come to lists like this I look to do better and get called on by moms I respect to do better.
I have called friends like Kelly Lovejoy and Schuyler Waynforth to ask for help. I did not expect them to say to me I was doing my best or I was in pain or any other excuse. I know they would help me do better next time by pointing out what and how to do better not that I did my best.
It is not to say that moms here, much less me, are always perfect and don't go wrong at moments.
I know I do a lot. But I DO judge what I did WRONG and I try to do BETTER and apologize to my kids for it.
I think we all have a choice and if we choose to abuse our kids , no matter why we do it, it is still a choice.
Many moms had horrible childhoods full of abuse and pain. They choose to do better with their children.
I know a few wonderful moms like that.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
I realized as I was reading this that I think of the word "mom" in a
different catagory to thinking of the word "child" or "adult". To some
extent being a mom is as passive as growing older, you get pregnant,
you have a child, you are a mom. There are ways that you can stop all
of those things happening, just as there are ways to stop from becoming
an adult, not so much to keep you from being a child, Anyhow, there is
a you are a mom point of the outcome of a pregnancy.
But it is more than that. I can make a choice that is about being a
better mom or I can make a choice that is about being a better career
woman or I can make a choice that is about being a better Greenpeace
activist. And while those choices aren't mutually exclusive there is a
definite priority distinction going on that changes what the outcome of
those choices would be.
I think it is hard to say if someone is a good or bad person, but you
can say if someone is making choices to make them a better parent in
the next moment. Hitting their children is not a step to being a better
parent, putting them in a cupboard under the stairs isn't a step toward
better parenting. Those may be choices made in an attempt to have a better behaving child, but they aren't ways to be a better parent.
For you using nonviolent communication techniques are a way to better communication, and yet they keep you from understanding this list and wish that people would change to accomodate you. If NVC is your priority than the communication with people outside of the paradigm will be damaged, if communicating with others is the priority the language of NVC can make that more difficult and may get sacrificed in the process. That doesn't make you a better or worse person, but it does make you a better or worse communicator.
If your goal is to be a better parent, a parent who is interested more in their children's happiness and comfort and health and well-being than they are in moving up the corporate ladder or being the most popular person in their social group, than you follow a different path than you do to attain those other goals.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: bigandlittle6 <islandthyme@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2009 3:15:40 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Are you a good mom, or a bad mom?
How can people keep perpetuating the idea that there is even such thing as a "good" mom, or a "bad" mom?
In practicing nonviolent communication with myself, my kids, my husband, my friends, etc.. I am trying to make any ideas of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "bad", non existent. As human beings, we are never "one thing" all the time. You can't "be" a good mom, or "be" a bad mom. Just like you would probably agree not to label any child "good" or "bad".
On any given day, we choose to do things that meet our/our children's needs, or things that don't meet our/our children's needs. We have the power to make different choices in every moment of every day, and we're always changing what we're doing as our/our children's needs change.
For example, maybe I played with my children today more than I cleaned the house. Is that "good"? Not necessarily. Perhaps it met my children's needs for fun, attention, play, affection. This is wonderful. But perhaps it didn't meet my needs for order, organization, cleanliness. Is that a "bad" thing? Not necessarily. These are simply examples of needs that are being met and not met. The time has come to start thinking outside of the box, drop the old language and make that paradigm shift.
Labeling anything "good" or "bad" is using the old, power-over, static language, that does a very ineffective job at saying what is REALLY happening. Human beings are far from static. Our feelings and needs are changing constantly.
Please, look deeper than those terms "good" and "bad", to the underlying needs that are being met or not met in a relationship or in a situation. Then, look deeper at the reason each of us choose to do the things we do. Get empowered to move beyond simplistic judgments of each other and instead, ask what needs we are trying to meet through the choices we are observing. Then and only then can we work together to find a way to help each other find a way to meet everyone's needs (children's included), more often.
And one last note: I hear people every single day, confusing thoughts as feelings. When a mother is saying "I am a bad mom", she is not FEELING she is a bad mom, she is THINKING it. Her feelings might be: guilt, shame, depression, sadness, loneliness, disappointment....
It's important to distinguish between our judgments of ourselves, and our FEELINGS about ourselves (which stem from those thoughts). If we are not aware of our thinking and our judgments, how can we possibly work to change them? Feelings are all valid. Judgments are something we make up in our head, they are not automatically true just because we've tricked ourselves into thinking them.
I have been lurking on this list for awhile now and have been frustrated on so many occasions because I find myself unable to connect with the language so frequently used here. I have wanted to recommend to members on this list to look into some basic nonviolent communication skills www.cnvc.org as I believe it would be really helpful for all. I am saying this because I am guessing you are a group who value learning and growth and openness, which I'm guessing
is a big reason why you choose to "unschool" your children. I don't see how this life of freedom can truly continue if we are holding on to the old violent language with ourselves, each other and our families.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
different catagory to thinking of the word "child" or "adult". To some
extent being a mom is as passive as growing older, you get pregnant,
you have a child, you are a mom. There are ways that you can stop all
of those things happening, just as there are ways to stop from becoming
an adult, not so much to keep you from being a child, Anyhow, there is
a you are a mom point of the outcome of a pregnancy.
But it is more than that. I can make a choice that is about being a
better mom or I can make a choice that is about being a better career
woman or I can make a choice that is about being a better Greenpeace
activist. And while those choices aren't mutually exclusive there is a
definite priority distinction going on that changes what the outcome of
those choices would be.
I think it is hard to say if someone is a good or bad person, but you
can say if someone is making choices to make them a better parent in
the next moment. Hitting their children is not a step to being a better
parent, putting them in a cupboard under the stairs isn't a step toward
better parenting. Those may be choices made in an attempt to have a better behaving child, but they aren't ways to be a better parent.
For you using nonviolent communication techniques are a way to better communication, and yet they keep you from understanding this list and wish that people would change to accomodate you. If NVC is your priority than the communication with people outside of the paradigm will be damaged, if communicating with others is the priority the language of NVC can make that more difficult and may get sacrificed in the process. That doesn't make you a better or worse person, but it does make you a better or worse communicator.
If your goal is to be a better parent, a parent who is interested more in their children's happiness and comfort and health and well-being than they are in moving up the corporate ladder or being the most popular person in their social group, than you follow a different path than you do to attain those other goals.
Schuyler
________________________________
From: bigandlittle6 <islandthyme@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, 11 May, 2009 3:15:40 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Are you a good mom, or a bad mom?
> My best answer is "a mom trying to be a better mom all the time."This whole posting made no sense to me, but I'm trying to piece it together. I apologize in advance if someone else has brought this up in the replies, I don't have time to read them.
>
> This morning on CBS Sunday Morning, there was an item on mom's doubts
> and feelings they were being good moms.
How can people keep perpetuating the idea that there is even such thing as a "good" mom, or a "bad" mom?
In practicing nonviolent communication with myself, my kids, my husband, my friends, etc.. I am trying to make any ideas of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "bad", non existent. As human beings, we are never "one thing" all the time. You can't "be" a good mom, or "be" a bad mom. Just like you would probably agree not to label any child "good" or "bad".
On any given day, we choose to do things that meet our/our children's needs, or things that don't meet our/our children's needs. We have the power to make different choices in every moment of every day, and we're always changing what we're doing as our/our children's needs change.
For example, maybe I played with my children today more than I cleaned the house. Is that "good"? Not necessarily. Perhaps it met my children's needs for fun, attention, play, affection. This is wonderful. But perhaps it didn't meet my needs for order, organization, cleanliness. Is that a "bad" thing? Not necessarily. These are simply examples of needs that are being met and not met. The time has come to start thinking outside of the box, drop the old language and make that paradigm shift.
Labeling anything "good" or "bad" is using the old, power-over, static language, that does a very ineffective job at saying what is REALLY happening. Human beings are far from static. Our feelings and needs are changing constantly.
Please, look deeper than those terms "good" and "bad", to the underlying needs that are being met or not met in a relationship or in a situation. Then, look deeper at the reason each of us choose to do the things we do. Get empowered to move beyond simplistic judgments of each other and instead, ask what needs we are trying to meet through the choices we are observing. Then and only then can we work together to find a way to help each other find a way to meet everyone's needs (children's included), more often.
And one last note: I hear people every single day, confusing thoughts as feelings. When a mother is saying "I am a bad mom", she is not FEELING she is a bad mom, she is THINKING it. Her feelings might be: guilt, shame, depression, sadness, loneliness, disappointment....
It's important to distinguish between our judgments of ourselves, and our FEELINGS about ourselves (which stem from those thoughts). If we are not aware of our thinking and our judgments, how can we possibly work to change them? Feelings are all valid. Judgments are something we make up in our head, they are not automatically true just because we've tricked ourselves into thinking them.
I have been lurking on this list for awhile now and have been frustrated on so many occasions because I find myself unable to connect with the language so frequently used here. I have wanted to recommend to members on this list to look into some basic nonviolent communication skills www.cnvc.org as I believe it would be really helpful for all. I am saying this because I am guessing you are a group who value learning and growth and openness, which I'm guessing
is a big reason why you choose to "unschool" your children. I don't see how this life of freedom can truly continue if we are holding on to the old violent language with ourselves, each other and our families.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maria
> My best answer is "a mom trying to be a better mom all the time."That's basically how my husband responded when I asked him if he thought I was a good mom. "Yes, because you're trying."
>
Our day was like a normal Sunday, I slept in and Nate made french toast...while Seth watched TV. Nate only remembered that it was Mother's Day after some program mentioned it and then said, "Happy Mother's Day, by the way." He did give me a massage (he's three months away from finishing Massage Therapy school), but he would have given me one anyways since he's prescribed that I get one once a week. Yes, I realize I'm "spoiled."
I "forgot" to call my mother, so a thousand hail mary's on me, I suppose. ;) Fortunately, she has seven other children who probably didn't.
In the past, I'd have used a day like this to make all kinds of unreasonable demands, but I didn't feel the need to. Apparently, I've grown. And, I know that because I didn't, it freed Nate up to show me his love in his own way, and freed me from the suffering that comes from unmet expectations.
I liked Scott Noelle's Daily Groove post on "Every Day is Mother's Day" so much I posted it as a Facebook Note.
~Maria
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have thought for a while that the principles of my religion,
Unitarian Universalism, lend themselves very well to radical
unschooling. For example, the first principle is that we believe in
the inherent worth and dignity of every person. I have fantasized
about holding adult education classes in my church about radical
unschooling, or maybe consensual living or whatever I would call it,-=-
Maybe you could talk about "peaceful homes" and talk about choices
rather that "have to"s. I don't see how people could balk at that.
Here's a unitarian sermon that involved unschooling. Maybe you've
seen it (but others here might not have).
http://sandradodd.com/kathrynsermon
-=-I'm a little bit in awe of people who "put themselves out there" in
the unschooling world. There's a lot of misinformation and harsh
criticism, and I think that's one reason why I haven't done this - I
don't want to make myself a target. But it's not about me, is it? It's
about the very energetic three year old, and her just-turned-five
sister, who deserve to be accepted and celebrated for who they are.-=-
It depends how your own family's peace is. If you have time and peace
to spare, it might be worth investing some of it in other people's
futures.
The older I get, the more wild criticism amuses me. It's like a kid
having a crazed fit, only it's adults and they believe they're having
some kind of rational fit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unitarian Universalism, lend themselves very well to radical
unschooling. For example, the first principle is that we believe in
the inherent worth and dignity of every person. I have fantasized
about holding adult education classes in my church about radical
unschooling, or maybe consensual living or whatever I would call it,-=-
Maybe you could talk about "peaceful homes" and talk about choices
rather that "have to"s. I don't see how people could balk at that.
Here's a unitarian sermon that involved unschooling. Maybe you've
seen it (but others here might not have).
http://sandradodd.com/kathrynsermon
-=-I'm a little bit in awe of people who "put themselves out there" in
the unschooling world. There's a lot of misinformation and harsh
criticism, and I think that's one reason why I haven't done this - I
don't want to make myself a target. But it's not about me, is it? It's
about the very energetic three year old, and her just-turned-five
sister, who deserve to be accepted and celebrated for who they are.-=-
It depends how your own family's peace is. If you have time and peace
to spare, it might be worth investing some of it in other people's
futures.
The older I get, the more wild criticism amuses me. It's like a kid
having a crazed fit, only it's adults and they believe they're having
some kind of rational fit.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-This whole posting made no sense to me, but I'm trying to piece it
together. I apologize in advance if someone else has brought this up
in the replies, I don't have time to read them.-=-
Before I read another word (I see there is more and much more below
this), READ THIS, islandthyme/bigandlittle6
If you don't understand something, don't comment.
If you don't have time to read something, don't comment.
Period.
You wouldn't go into a two hour meeting and ask for the microphone and
say "I haven't heard what's been said, but..." and then walk out
because you don't have time to hear the rest.
Leave the discussion to those who DO understand it.
-=-I have been lurking on this list for awhile now and have been
frustrated on so many occasions...-=-
Not MANY occasions, because you don't have time to read and you've
been on the list since March 30, 2009. There are people who have been
on this list for seven years or more. They understand something you
don't understand. There are people who've joined lately and wrote
these thing. You should take the time to read them:
http://sandradodd.com/change
I'll read the rest and respond to the point, if there was one, after I
see if others have already said what I was going to say.
Sandra (who signs her name to every post; doesn't require others to,
but big ideas without a name are smaller right away)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
together. I apologize in advance if someone else has brought this up
in the replies, I don't have time to read them.-=-
Before I read another word (I see there is more and much more below
this), READ THIS, islandthyme/bigandlittle6
If you don't understand something, don't comment.
If you don't have time to read something, don't comment.
Period.
You wouldn't go into a two hour meeting and ask for the microphone and
say "I haven't heard what's been said, but..." and then walk out
because you don't have time to hear the rest.
Leave the discussion to those who DO understand it.
-=-I have been lurking on this list for awhile now and have been
frustrated on so many occasions...-=-
Not MANY occasions, because you don't have time to read and you've
been on the list since March 30, 2009. There are people who have been
on this list for seven years or more. They understand something you
don't understand. There are people who've joined lately and wrote
these thing. You should take the time to read them:
http://sandradodd.com/change
I'll read the rest and respond to the point, if there was one, after I
see if others have already said what I was going to say.
Sandra (who signs her name to every post; doesn't require others to,
but big ideas without a name are smaller right away)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]