Crystal Byrd

Ok, I have 3 kids at home, 2nd, 3rd, and 6th grades. I use those grades
loosely, as I'm not sure grade I'll "classify" my younger 2 next year for
various reasons. or if I'll even classify them at all. We tend to do most
things together anyway.



I just pulled them from public school this year. my younger 2 in February
and my oldest in March, so we're still trying to figure out our learning
style and what works for us. My younger kids are having NO problem figuring
out what they like and what they don't. we attempted physics for science,
and they show no interest and have made it very clear that they want to
learn about the solar system. great! We'll start reading and doing fun
activities this week! They love to play math games. love to work with
manipulatives. can't stand doing worksheets! My 2nd grader announced to me
last week, "Mom, I *hate* doing worksheets. they're so boring!" Wow! I had
to step back and rethink what we were doing. I was really doing "school at
home", and while I'm not completely ready to jump into unschooling (although
I absolutely love the idea and can't promise I won't eventually), I don't
want my kids hating what we do or being bored. if they're not happy, it's
obviously not working for them. My 3rd grader is quick to tell me, "Mom,
this is just like public school. What's the point of being at home if this
is what you want us to do?" BACK UP! Don't want this to be like public
school, so obviously need to make some changes. Anyway, my point is we're
figuring it out, I'm learning to get out of the public school mentality, and
my younger two are great at telling me what they like/don't like, what they
want to learn, etc.



My 6th grader is the one who is having a harder time getting into the
mindset of being at home, I guess. It was her choice to stay home (I left it
up to her so that she would be "on board"). but she is so stuck in the
public school mentality, it is unreal! I guess that is to be expected since
she spent the most time in ps. She has this idea of what her workload is
supposed to look like, and if she doesn't feel like I assigned her enough
work, she'll say she doesn't think she is learning enough. I try to explain
to her that it shouldn't take her from 8:15 to 2:45 to do her schoolwork. we
don' t have all the downtime and busy work that they do in ps. She's happy
with her math (she's doing Teaching Textbooks pre-algebra and really enjoys
it). she hates reading, so I'm working on that with her slowly. don't want
to force her, but I think reading is very important. I just got us a book to
read together, so we'll see how that goes. I don't push spelling much with
her, as she's a naturally good speller anyway. Science and social studies
are our issues, really. I found a unit study on veterinary medicine,
particularly dogs. she absolutely loves dogs, and I thought she'd really
enjoy it. When I mentioned it to her, she said, "Mom, that's not the kind of
science I'm supposed to be learning." Ugh. just when I think I'm getting
through to her. I tried to explain to her that there is no science you are
"supposed" to learn.. that kids in ps have to learn whatever science the
teacher is teaching, but that's just because the school system has to keep
them all doing the same thing to make it easier to teach that many kids, but
that she's home and has the opportunity to learn about what she wants. She
just keeps saying that she needs to learn the kind of science that she's
supposed to learn in ps. and the same with social studies/history.



How do I help her learn to follow her interests and that she has the freedom
to learn about things that interest her? I ordered some games for my younger
two about the solar system. and ended up getting one about anatomy, just
because it looked fun! J So I'm hoping she'll jump in on those games with us
instead of having her nose in the textbooks.



If anyone has experience in "deschooling" their middle schooler, please
offer some advice. I'm honestly sad for her, and want her to find the love
in learning again (probably since she was 5). I don't want to take away her
math program that she's using, and we're fairly happy with her language arts
curriculum (I'm very loose there), but there's so much fun to be had if she
could just get "unbrainwashed".



Thanks for any help you can offer, and sorry for the long post!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>>> My 6th grader is the one who is having a harder time getting into
the
mindset of being at home, I guess. It was her choice to stay home (I
left it
up to her so that she would be "on board"). but she is so stuck in the
public school mentality, it is unreal! <<<<

It's tough to make the transition from duties geared for continual
performance to actually enjoying the possibilities for fun all around.
Teens are a difficult passage anyway, so there will naturally be some
introspection going on as well, so what you're seeing might not be just
about unschooling/deschooling but life too.

Some thoughts on deschooling:
http://www.livingjoyfully.ca/unschooling/getting_started/
what_is_deschooling.htm
And on deschooling for parents: http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

~Katherine

Sandra Dodd

-=-I just pulled them from public school this year. my younger 2 in
February
and my oldest in March, so we're still trying to figure out our learning
style and what works for us.-=-

"This year" meaning they didn't go to school when the 08/09 school
year started?

Or "This year" meaning in 2009?

It matters.

-=-...while I'm not completely ready to jump into unschooling
(although I absolutely love the idea and can't promise I won't
eventually)...-=-

This list might be frustrating for you if you don't intend to unschool.

If you don't decide to unschool and then make changes in your view of
your children and of learning, I can promise you will will not
unschool eventually. "Eventually" can mean thousands of years from
now. You have a child who's 11 or 12 or 13 years old (you've called
him "a sixth grader," but that term will keep you stuck in
schoolthink). You have VERY few years to do something cool with him
and for him.

http://sandradodd.com/doit

Read that link before answering the question up top, but please do
both. Thanks.



Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Crystal Byrd

Thank you for your comments and suggestions. I always enjoy reading what you
have to say. The list is definitely not frustrating to me, if anything it
gives me success story after success story to read about (along with the
trials and tribulations) which helps to focus my thinking away from
school-think and more to everyday learning through living. I'm really trying
to just jump in feet first, but it's been harder than I thought to get my
idea of "learning" out of my head.



I just pulled my kids out of ps in 2009, so they did part of the year (most)
in ps. I'm thinking that between now and the summer months, we will shift
more away from "curriculum" and more towards learning through living. in
which case it *really* won't matter what grade they're "in" next year. it
would be very irrelevant.



The problem with my 6th grader (daughter) is that she wants to go back to
public school for high school. While I haven't told her yes or no, I've
actually told her we'll just talk about it when the time comes, she has this
idea that she needs to prepare herself for highschool. that if she doesn't
"learn" something that the state of CA says she needs to learn in middle
school that she'll somehow be behind in highschool. She is an extremely
bright girl, picks up on things very quickly, and is ahead of where she
"should" be were she in public school. She enjoys doing her math curriculum,
so I'm just going to keep letting her do that, and take breaks on days she
doesn't feel like it. Language arts is learned through everyday
communication and story writing that we do, although she is doing a language
arts workbook right now to "make her feel better". It's hard for her to
understand that she doesn't "have" to have learned anything specific,
especially in the areas of science and social studies/history, when she gets
to highschool. if she even returns to ps (which I'd rather she didn't. while
she's "gifted", public school tends to dumb her down!).







From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 12:56 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] help with explaining "fun" learning to 6th
grader








-=-I just pulled them from public school this year. my younger 2 in
February
and my oldest in March, so we're still trying to figure out our learning
style and what works for us.-=-

"This year" meaning they didn't go to school when the 08/09 school
year started?

Or "This year" meaning in 2009?

It matters.

-=-...while I'm not completely ready to jump into unschooling
(although I absolutely love the idea and can't promise I won't
eventually)...-=-

This list might be frustrating for you if you don't intend to unschool.

If you don't decide to unschool and then make changes in your view of
your children and of learning, I can promise you will will not
unschool eventually. "Eventually" can mean thousands of years from
now. You have a child who's 11 or 12 or 13 years old (you've called
him "a sixth grader," but that term will keep you stuck in
schoolthink). You have VERY few years to do something cool with him
and for him.

http://sandradodd.com/doit

Read that link before answering the question up top, but please do
both. Thanks.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

>>>but she is so stuck in the public school mentality, it is unreal!>>>

>>> "Mom, that's not the kind of science I'm supposed to be learning."
Ugh. just when I think I'm getting through to her. I tried to explain to
her that there is no science you are "supposed" to learn.. >>>

I don't think she will see it unless you do. You have seperated the
world out into subjects to be studied. If your daughter has been
successful in school, it will be hard to get rid of that feeling of
school reward for having done well on a school project or test.

You are helping her see that the world is divided into school subjects
and school ideas. If you want her to see it differently, you have to
present the world differently.

>>> How do I help her learn to follow her interests and that she has the
freedom to learn about things that interest her? >>>

By taking her out into the world and doing things, by getting her out of
the house and out exploring.


>>>I don't want to take away her math program that she's using, and
we're fairly happy with her language arts curriculum (I'm very loose
there), but there's so much fun to be had if she could just get
"unbrainwashed". >>>

Even loosely requiring something will feed into the idea that there are
required subjects for learning how to live and get along in the world.
Once you can see that, you can move forward. Otherwise, you are only
recreating school at home with all it's trappings.

Crystal Byrd

Wow, you are absolutely right. I'm telling her she can learn whatever she
wants, and then telling her to choose a science. doesn't really make sense
now that I "hear" it back. I'll take those words and start working on it.
Thank you!



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Jenny C
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:05 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: help with explaining "fun" learning to 6th
grader









>>>but she is so stuck in the public school mentality, it is unreal!>>>

>>> "Mom, that's not the kind of science I'm supposed to be learning."
Ugh. just when I think I'm getting through to her. I tried to explain to
her that there is no science you are "supposed" to learn.. >>>

I don't think she will see it unless you do. You have seperated the
world out into subjects to be studied. If your daughter has been
successful in school, it will be hard to get rid of that feeling of
school reward for having done well on a school project or test.

You are helping her see that the world is divided into school subjects
and school ideas. If you want her to see it differently, you have to
present the world differently.

>>> How do I help her learn to follow her interests and that she has the
freedom to learn about things that interest her? >>>

By taking her out into the world and doing things, by getting her out of
the house and out exploring.

>>>I don't want to take away her math program that she's using, and
we're fairly happy with her language arts curriculum (I'm very loose
there), but there's so much fun to be had if she could just get
"unbrainwashed". >>>

Even loosely requiring something will feed into the idea that there are
required subjects for learning how to live and get along in the world.
Once you can see that, you can move forward. Otherwise, you are only
recreating school at home with all it's trappings.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 5/4/2009 1:09 PM, Crystal Byrd wrote:
> "learn" something that the state of CA says she needs to learn in middle
>

You are in California - why don't you come to the unschooling conference
in San Diego in September. A GREAT way to NOT start school next school
year! Your daughter will meet all the unschooled kids and be inspired
and amazed and might get all excited about natural learning.

Also - think about how to make life at home (and out of the home) so
much fun that she won't want to miss out on it by going to school.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-I just pulled my kids out of ps in 2009, so they did part of the
year (most)
in ps. I'm thinking that between now and the summer months, we will
shift
more away from "curriculum" and more towards learning through living. in
which case it *really* won't matter what grade they're "in" next year.
it
would be very irrelevant. -=-

But it shouldn't matter THIS year what grade they're in.

And shifting from curriculum toward learning through living isn't the
same as deschooling.
For natural learning (learning through living) to start to work, the
kids have to deschool and you the parent(s) have to deschool even more.

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

Although you're saying your kids don't get it, you're talking about
them as "Nth Graders." Bad sign.
Don't feel bad for not getting it, but don't find justifications to
remain in that state, nor excuses for why you can't or shouldn't need
to deschool. And for school kids, summer doesn't count in the
deschooling time, so you might want to start now and not "at the end
of this school year."

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

One of the best definitions to describe unschooling is "living as if
school doesn't exist."

~Katherine



On May 5, 2009, at 11:23 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:

> Although you're saying your kids don't get it, you're talking about
> them as "Nth Graders."

Jenny C

> And shifting from curriculum toward learning through living isn't the
> same as deschooling.
> For natural learning (learning through living) to start to work, the
> kids have to deschool and you the parent(s) have to deschool even
more.
>


I'll add that even parents who do curriculum homeschooling, will often
do a deschooling period before jumping into it. So even if this person
ends up going that route, it really does help to deschool regardless of
what they end up doing. It gives a chance to refocus ones life in such
a way that school is less and life is bigger. Kids who have that chance
to deschool, really do much better.

You can think of it this way; when kids are in school, each day they
need to come home and decompress, so deschooling after coming out of
school, is like a larger decompressing, to undo all the stress and
damage done by school.

Crystal Byrd

Can you give me more information about the conference?



From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Pam Sorooshian
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 2:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] help with explaining "fun" learning to 6th
grader










On 5/4/2009 1:09 PM, Crystal Byrd wrote:
> "learn" something that the state of CA says she needs to learn in middle
>

You are in California - why don't you come to the unschooling conference
in San Diego in September. A GREAT way to NOT start school next school
year! Your daughter will meet all the unschooled kids and be inspired
and amazed and might get all excited about natural learning.

Also - think about how to make life at home (and out of the home) so
much fun that she won't want to miss out on it by going to school.

-pam





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

There are regional unschooling conferences all over the country - you
can keep up with them on this list (which doesn't have discussion, just
an email once in a while about what conferences are coming up). To join,
send a blank email to: [email protected]. (Thank
you to Deb Cunefare for this very very helpful service.)

For information about the San Diego conference:
www.goodvibrationsconference.com

If you're in Northern California, it is still well worth the trip to San
Diego! Sandra will be speaking there and have her whole family with her.
I'll be speaking and so will my daughter, Roya, and my other kids will
be with me, too.

But, there is also the HomeSchool Association of California conference
in Sacramento in August - it is not an entirely unschooling conference,
but there will definitely be an unschooling (mostly radical) contingent
and we'll have talks and panel discussions,etc.

-pam



On 5/5/2009 10:03 PM, Crystal Byrd wrote:
> Can you give me more information about the conference?
>
>
>

Pam Sorooshian

Sorry - left off the "unschooling" part of the name of the list:

[email protected]

-pam



On 5/6/2009 10:14 AM, Pam Sorooshian wrote:
> There are regional unschooling conferences all over the country - you
> can keep up with them on this list (which doesn't have discussion, just
> an email once in a while about what conferences are coming up). To join,
> send a blank email to:[email protected]. (Thank
> you to Deb Cunefare for this very very helpful service.)
>
>