other people's kids
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In a message dated 2/8/02 7:14:15 AM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
<< I guess some kids only know screaming or spanking. >>
Some kids don't know that AND they seem not to know someone just talking to
them like a person and telling them calmly that spitting is a bit like peeing
on someone, and if they did it as an adult they could go to jail or have to
pay money, that it's that bad. Maybe nobody's ever talked to them calmly
about germs, or paid enough direct and sweet attention to them to notice
their quirks and advise them on better tactics.
And when I see a child like that, I wonder if it's just that the mom is
oblivious because she herself doesn't have social awareness, and so she can't
really teach and pass it down to her kids.
So sometimes I'll just deal with other people's kids, when they're in my
space--not scream at them, but talk to them like I would an adult who was
doing something in my house or my car or at my table at a restaurant and I
had good reason to want them not to do it right then or there or in that
fashion to or in front of my kids.
I did say to a visiting kid the other day "Try not to be a prick."
He said brightly, "Okay."
I was tired of him needling, needling, bugging, irritating (which is kind of
his way to interact with other kids) and then when we were on the way out to
deliver boys somewhere, he put snow on the shyest and poorest and
least-warmly dressed of any of them. On the least likely to defend himself.
And the place they were going wasn't a really warm place.
So in exchange for my having had him in the house for 24 hours with his
hyperness, lack of need to sleep (he's like me--six hours or seven, and going
strong again, while the other boys are still sleeping), constant teasing and
commentary, he had to endure my analysis of it in a stressful moment.
We're still friends. He really DOES want to interact in a good way, he's
just jittery, zippy, and used to mean fun.
He's also left school to homeschool, a few months ago. And he's less "out
there" already. He used to be trying to impress school kids and he'd paint
his nails black, dye his hair green, wear weird necklaces and bracelets and
t-shirts and attention-getting coats, and so forth. The last couple of times
I've seen him he was losing the stench of desperation. He's getting older
(one reality) and now he's trying to fit in with a homeschooled group which
doesn't require flash and freakishness.
Sandra
<< I guess some kids only know screaming or spanking. >>
Some kids don't know that AND they seem not to know someone just talking to
them like a person and telling them calmly that spitting is a bit like peeing
on someone, and if they did it as an adult they could go to jail or have to
pay money, that it's that bad. Maybe nobody's ever talked to them calmly
about germs, or paid enough direct and sweet attention to them to notice
their quirks and advise them on better tactics.
And when I see a child like that, I wonder if it's just that the mom is
oblivious because she herself doesn't have social awareness, and so she can't
really teach and pass it down to her kids.
So sometimes I'll just deal with other people's kids, when they're in my
space--not scream at them, but talk to them like I would an adult who was
doing something in my house or my car or at my table at a restaurant and I
had good reason to want them not to do it right then or there or in that
fashion to or in front of my kids.
I did say to a visiting kid the other day "Try not to be a prick."
He said brightly, "Okay."
I was tired of him needling, needling, bugging, irritating (which is kind of
his way to interact with other kids) and then when we were on the way out to
deliver boys somewhere, he put snow on the shyest and poorest and
least-warmly dressed of any of them. On the least likely to defend himself.
And the place they were going wasn't a really warm place.
So in exchange for my having had him in the house for 24 hours with his
hyperness, lack of need to sleep (he's like me--six hours or seven, and going
strong again, while the other boys are still sleeping), constant teasing and
commentary, he had to endure my analysis of it in a stressful moment.
We're still friends. He really DOES want to interact in a good way, he's
just jittery, zippy, and used to mean fun.
He's also left school to homeschool, a few months ago. And he's less "out
there" already. He used to be trying to impress school kids and he'd paint
his nails black, dye his hair green, wear weird necklaces and bracelets and
t-shirts and attention-getting coats, and so forth. The last couple of times
I've seen him he was losing the stench of desperation. He's getting older
(one reality) and now he's trying to fit in with a homeschooled group which
doesn't require flash and freakishness.
Sandra
Pat Cald...
From: SandraDodd@...
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Some kids don't know that AND they seem not to know someone just talking toI had an opportunity to talk to the mom a few days later. We were outside with another neighbor and the other neighbor commented that the spitting kid was really giving his sister a hard time. The mom said he was just like her brothers when she was growing up. When I mentioned about the spitting incedent she said the reason I had trouble with him was that I had tattled on him. He has no respect for people that tattle. I guess what she was saying was that I needed to figure out a way to deal with him myself. It is something I'm trying to learn because I tend to not want to deal with rotten kids. My kids tire very quickly of friends that do not know how to act. Maybe we are intolerant????
>them like a person and telling them calmly that spitting is a bit like peeing
>on someone, and if they did it as an adult they could go to jail or have to
>pay money, that it's that bad. Maybe nobody's ever talked to them calmly
>about germs, or paid enough direct and sweet attention to them to notice
>their quirks and advise them on better tactics.
>And when I see a child like that, I wonder if it's just that the mom is
>oblivious because she herself doesn't have social awareness, and so she can't
>really teach and pass it down to her kids.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
My kids tire very quickly of friends that do not
Sharon of the Swamp
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> know how to act. Maybe we are intolerant????Sensible, probably.
>
> Pat
Sharon of the Swamp
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In a message dated 2/8/02 8:35:32 AM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
<< When I mentioned about the spitting incedent she said the reason I had
trouble with him was that I had tattled on him. He has no respect for people
that tattle. I guess what she was saying was that I needed to figure out a
way to deal with him myself. >>
My kids didn't even have the concept "tattle," so if he doesn't like
tattlers, his parents told him not to tattle. They expect him to settle his
own stuff too? Seems he is, by spitting.
<<It is something I'm trying to learn because I tend to not want to deal with
rotten kids. My kids tire very quickly of friends that do not know how to
act. Maybe we are intolerant???? >>
Well then just tell the kid that. Say "We don't like rotten spitting kids,
so IF you want to hang out with us, or sit by us, act better or be gone."
At least now you konw the mom didn't want you to bottle it up and tattle.
Sandra
<< When I mentioned about the spitting incedent she said the reason I had
trouble with him was that I had tattled on him. He has no respect for people
that tattle. I guess what she was saying was that I needed to figure out a
way to deal with him myself. >>
My kids didn't even have the concept "tattle," so if he doesn't like
tattlers, his parents told him not to tattle. They expect him to settle his
own stuff too? Seems he is, by spitting.
<<It is something I'm trying to learn because I tend to not want to deal with
rotten kids. My kids tire very quickly of friends that do not know how to
act. Maybe we are intolerant???? >>
Well then just tell the kid that. Say "We don't like rotten spitting kids,
so IF you want to hang out with us, or sit by us, act better or be gone."
At least now you konw the mom didn't want you to bottle it up and tattle.
Sandra
[email protected]
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:25:12 -0500 "Pat Cald..." <homeschoolmd@...>
writes:
my book - tattling is mentioning some sort of behavior to an adult for
the sole purpose of getting the kid in trouble. It's not your job to deal
with someone's 4 yr old when she's right there - she's blaming the
victim, you! For all you knew the kid's dog died that morning, or his
uncle Bob had just showed him how much fun spitting was, or spitting was
his cue that he was overwhelmed and needed some space, or anything. He
needed some parenting.... and you did ask him to stop once, and he
didn't.
Now, if she wasn't right there, then I think you'd be responsible for
dealing with it... although I don't think leaving your 4 yr old off
somewhere unsupervised is a good idea either.. but if this was a 4 yr old
you were watching for a friend, or something, then you'd have to do
something. For me, it would be somewhere along the lines of "cut it out,
I don't want spit on my chair!" and then finding a place for him to spit
if he wanted to spit some more, maybe digging a hole in the ground to
spit in, or finding a toilet. Spitting is kind of fun sometimes....
intolerant of being mistreated to be pretty healthy, actually.
I do think, though, that there really aren't any rotten kids, just kids
doing rotten things.
Dar
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writes:
> When IYou "tattled" on him? Oh, cripes, what an idiot. You didn't "tattle", in
> mentioned about the spitting incedent she said the reason I had
> trouble with him was that I had tattled on him. He has no respect
> for people that tattle. I guess what she was saying was that I
> needed to figure out a way to deal with him myself.
my book - tattling is mentioning some sort of behavior to an adult for
the sole purpose of getting the kid in trouble. It's not your job to deal
with someone's 4 yr old when she's right there - she's blaming the
victim, you! For all you knew the kid's dog died that morning, or his
uncle Bob had just showed him how much fun spitting was, or spitting was
his cue that he was overwhelmed and needed some space, or anything. He
needed some parenting.... and you did ask him to stop once, and he
didn't.
Now, if she wasn't right there, then I think you'd be responsible for
dealing with it... although I don't think leaving your 4 yr old off
somewhere unsupervised is a good idea either.. but if this was a 4 yr old
you were watching for a friend, or something, then you'd have to do
something. For me, it would be somewhere along the lines of "cut it out,
I don't want spit on my chair!" and then finding a place for him to spit
if he wanted to spit some more, maybe digging a hole in the ground to
spit in, or finding a toilet. Spitting is kind of fun sometimes....
> It is somethingI don't think intolerant is always a bad thing... I consider being
> I'm trying to learn because I tend to not want to deal with rotten
> kids. My kids tire very quickly of friends that do not know how to
> act. Maybe we are intolerant????
>
intolerant of being mistreated to be pretty healthy, actually.
I do think, though, that there really aren't any rotten kids, just kids
doing rotten things.
Dar
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Nancy Wooton
on 2/8/02 7:02 AM, SandraDodd@... at SandraDodd@... wrote:
Nancy
> "Try not to be a prick."Words to live by.
Nancy
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/02 9:37:11 AM, freeform@... writes:
<< and then finding a place for him to spit
if he wanted to spit some more, maybe digging a hole in the ground to
spit in, or finding a toilet. Spitting is kind of fun sometimes.... >>
That's a good idea.
Or tell him to spit in his own pocket and save it up there. <g>
<<I don't think intolerant is always a bad thing... I consider being
intolerant of being mistreated to be pretty healthy, actually. >>
I totally agree. People who tolerate abuse to prove they're tolerant are not
teaching their kids a good lesson.
Sandra
<< and then finding a place for him to spit
if he wanted to spit some more, maybe digging a hole in the ground to
spit in, or finding a toilet. Spitting is kind of fun sometimes.... >>
That's a good idea.
Or tell him to spit in his own pocket and save it up there. <g>
<<I don't think intolerant is always a bad thing... I consider being
intolerant of being mistreated to be pretty healthy, actually. >>
I totally agree. People who tolerate abuse to prove they're tolerant are not
teaching their kids a good lesson.
Sandra
Julie Stauffer
<<If this were an adult, what would you do?>>
This could be a problem. If an adult spit on me the first time, my response
would be something along the line "Do that again and I'll return it down
your throat with my fist."
I would be much more likely to follow Sandra's example than to move away.
Julie
This could be a problem. If an adult spit on me the first time, my response
would be something along the line "Do that again and I'll return it down
your throat with my fist."
I would be much more likely to follow Sandra's example than to move away.
Julie
Pat Cald...
>I do think, though, that there really aren't any rotten kids, just kidsYou are right about this, especially a 4 year old that needs some guidance. I have to stop saying that. Although I don't know if it is a bad thing for my children to realize they are going to be judged by others on their behavior, good or bad. It is just the way things are.
>doing rotten things.
>
>Dar
OTOH, we do talk about what causes children to misbehave and how their parents can help them or in some cases have contributed to the behavior. The positive side of this is that my children have learned a lot. The negative side is that I feel like we are criticizing people a lot. My kids will come in and tell me about different behaviors they have observed and it seems like we talk about this stuff maybe a little too much. I hope I'm not raising my children to be snobs.
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/8/02 12:17:37 PM, homeschoolmd@... writes:
<< Although I don't know if it is a bad thing for my children to realize they
are going to be judged by others on their behavior, good or bad. It is just
the way things are. >>
Oh, I think it's an excellent good thing. While I do believe in sheltering
kids from harm, I don't believe in sheltering them much from others'
reactions to their own occasional obnoxiousness. If a kid is angry at one of
my kids for a good reason, I step on back a couple of steps and let natural
consequences flow a moment. Because if they just hear it from me, they won't
believe it. If they hear it from someone with some emotion in the moment,
it's real, not just mom-noise.
It hasn't happened much, but to say "See, Marty? Kids REALLY don't like it
when you do that to them" is stronger than "Marty, maybe if you do that some
kids might not like it."
It has been very rare, but real.
I remember crying a LOT as a kid, frustrated with social situations. And
having to get on the bus when it got there, not being able to talk on the
phone much, etc. made it harder to solve them, since I wouldn't see them
until school, whichever class we had together, or lunch, or whenever, to
smoothe over problems.
My kids have usually been able to deal with misunderstandings as soon as the
emotion was gone. They're lucky.
-=-The negative side is that I feel like we are criticizing people a lot. My
kids will come in and tell me about different behaviors they have observed
and it seems like we talk about this stuff maybe a little too much. I hope
I'm not raising my children to be snobs.-=-
Holly's very analytical about other families and will say some things I
wasn't in a position to see or think about until I was much older than she
is. There've been a couple of dads she was afraid of because they yelled or
spanked, but she comes and talks to me and tells me what she thinks, why she
thinks things turned out as they did, what she would have done different if
she were the kid, or the dad, what she thinks the mom could have done, etc.
It's a good lab for her.
In one family, she used to want to come home as soon as the dad got home,
because the dynamics changed so much. Holly was seven. Now she's ten, and
can stay overnight with the dad there. Partly she's older, partly she knows
the dad better, and partly the dad's not as reactionary as he used to be! I
can't help but think that having Holly there could have made the situation
better. When he has other kids' behavior to compare to he knows more.
Sandra
<< Although I don't know if it is a bad thing for my children to realize they
are going to be judged by others on their behavior, good or bad. It is just
the way things are. >>
Oh, I think it's an excellent good thing. While I do believe in sheltering
kids from harm, I don't believe in sheltering them much from others'
reactions to their own occasional obnoxiousness. If a kid is angry at one of
my kids for a good reason, I step on back a couple of steps and let natural
consequences flow a moment. Because if they just hear it from me, they won't
believe it. If they hear it from someone with some emotion in the moment,
it's real, not just mom-noise.
It hasn't happened much, but to say "See, Marty? Kids REALLY don't like it
when you do that to them" is stronger than "Marty, maybe if you do that some
kids might not like it."
It has been very rare, but real.
I remember crying a LOT as a kid, frustrated with social situations. And
having to get on the bus when it got there, not being able to talk on the
phone much, etc. made it harder to solve them, since I wouldn't see them
until school, whichever class we had together, or lunch, or whenever, to
smoothe over problems.
My kids have usually been able to deal with misunderstandings as soon as the
emotion was gone. They're lucky.
-=-The negative side is that I feel like we are criticizing people a lot. My
kids will come in and tell me about different behaviors they have observed
and it seems like we talk about this stuff maybe a little too much. I hope
I'm not raising my children to be snobs.-=-
Holly's very analytical about other families and will say some things I
wasn't in a position to see or think about until I was much older than she
is. There've been a couple of dads she was afraid of because they yelled or
spanked, but she comes and talks to me and tells me what she thinks, why she
thinks things turned out as they did, what she would have done different if
she were the kid, or the dad, what she thinks the mom could have done, etc.
It's a good lab for her.
In one family, she used to want to come home as soon as the dad got home,
because the dynamics changed so much. Holly was seven. Now she's ten, and
can stay overnight with the dad there. Partly she's older, partly she knows
the dad better, and partly the dad's not as reactionary as he used to be! I
can't help but think that having Holly there could have made the situation
better. When he has other kids' behavior to compare to he knows more.
Sandra
Joseph Fuerst
It is something I'm trying to learn because I tend to not want to deal with
rotten kids. My kids tire very quickly of friends that do not know how to
act. Maybe we are intolerant????
energetic, caring person who doesn't know how to manage some feelings yet
without hitting or pulling hair or screaming loudly enough to practically
pierce an eardrum. She used to bite....it didn't last long. In fact, all
my children were biters at some point. Jenna's now in a phase where she
spits at her siblings when she'a angry (or tries to....it doesn'y actually
leave her mouth). I figure she's young and will outgrow this. I usually
ask her to do something else..with me if possible, in order to pull her out
of the situation. So far she hasn't spit at anyone outside our home, but
it could happen; she doesn't always show signs of building up to these
'outbursts'.
Too bad the mom could not have intervened by picking up the child and
speaking with him privately....and wiping the mess plus apologize to you and
your dd. At least she has some insight if she thinks the 2nd one was a
reaction to 'tattling'.....wonder if she'll grow from there.
Susan
rotten kids. My kids tire very quickly of friends that do not know how to
act. Maybe we are intolerant????
>I suppose my 3 yr old is a "rotten kid" at times - but I see a wonderful,
> Pat
>
energetic, caring person who doesn't know how to manage some feelings yet
without hitting or pulling hair or screaming loudly enough to practically
pierce an eardrum. She used to bite....it didn't last long. In fact, all
my children were biters at some point. Jenna's now in a phase where she
spits at her siblings when she'a angry (or tries to....it doesn'y actually
leave her mouth). I figure she's young and will outgrow this. I usually
ask her to do something else..with me if possible, in order to pull her out
of the situation. So far she hasn't spit at anyone outside our home, but
it could happen; she doesn't always show signs of building up to these
'outbursts'.
Too bad the mom could not have intervened by picking up the child and
speaking with him privately....and wiping the mess plus apologize to you and
your dd. At least she has some insight if she thinks the 2nd one was a
reaction to 'tattling'.....wonder if she'll grow from there.
Susan
Pat Cald...
>I totally agree. People who tolerate abuse to prove they're tolerant are >notHow about people who put up with abuse from a child's parent to be kind to the child?
>teaching their kids a good lesson.
>
>Sandra
I've talked to a lot of women who will put up with a lot of crap from the parent's of kids just for the kid's sake. I can't seem to separate the two. Crap is crap and no one craps on me! How's that for a mouth full of crap?
Pat
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sharon Rudd
. My kids will
Sharon of the Swamp
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> come in and tell me about different behaviors theyor social scientists
> have observed and it seems like we talk about this
> stuff maybe a little too much. I hope I'm not
> raising my children to be snobs.
>
> Pat
Sharon of the Swamp
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