DaBreeze21

So this is the week for me of "in-law" controversy. My husband put some pictures of our daughter on facebook in which she was only wearing her easter hat and holding her purse. Very funny! My mother-in-law wrote a not so nice email this morning regarding this.

Now, I know that posting pictures online, especially nude ones of children, is a touchy topic. And actually the more I think about it the more I think that it is better to err on the side of caution. We didn't think much of it at first, and I have put some on my blog before where she is naked.

What DID get me though is the tone of my mil's email. So condescending -- she actually said "Use your heads" to us! I am a very "thinking" person, so I KNOW that there are ways she could have brought up her concerns that would have made us think without making us feel like "little kids". I also don't think that she would EVER say anything like that to her oldest daughter and his husband. My husband is the "baby" and I definitely think there is a double or triple standard in their family as far as how they treat each other! It reminds me of conversations I've had with my husband about how they didn't know much of what was going on with him growing up because he knew they would overreact. And for me, it speaks to exactly what I do and DON'T want in my relationship with my kids. I want them to feel listened to, respected, loved... and to feel like they can talk to me about anything.

Anyways, mostly just venting, but made me think of things that have been discussed here. And if anyone has any interesting perspectives/thoughts about pictures online/dangers etc, I would be interested in hearing them.

Susan

Sandra Dodd

-=-. My husband is the "baby" and I definitely think there is a double
or triple standard in their family as far as how they treat each
other! -

My husband is the third of three. He was fat when his brothers were
athletes (Keith played football, and was in marching band, but his
brothers were more physical). He didn't go into the military and his
brothers did. He was also a better kid than his brothers were, as to
honesty with his parents, it seems, but they don't know or care about
the ratty things the brothers did.

His parents AND his brothers still sometimes treat him like a kid,
like a silly kid, and he's the best of the brothers (at least by any
measure I care about).


-=-Anyways, mostly just venting, but made me think of things that have
been discussed here. And if anyone has any interesting perspectives/
thoughts about pictures online/dangers etc, I would be interested in
hearing them. -=-

I was told off for putting Holly's driver's license online and someone
reported me to the state, and I got a call to make sure I knew the
dangers of the internet. I documented it at the time. It's not
nudity, but it's related as to the degree of "danger."

The first post and follow-up are here.
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2007/05/holly-news-sandra-muse.html
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2007/05/control-and-jealous-craziness.html

I took the first set of comments and put them here:
http://sandradodd.com/blogcomments/license

It was quite a little firestorm, but Holly's picture is still there.

Sandra

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Jenny C

>
>>> So this is the week for me of "in-law" controversy. My husband put
some pictures of our daughter on facebook in which she was only wearing
her easter hat and holding her purse. Very funny! My mother-in-law wrote
a not so nice email this morning regarding this.>>>

Is your profile set to private? Not that I think it matters much, but,
in talking to your m-i-l, you could tell her that only certain people
view your profile so you find nothing wrong with that. You can even set
your pictures up where only some get to see it and not others. Honestly
people get really uptight about little kids without clothing.


>
>>> What DID get me though is the tone of my mil's email. So
condescending -- she actually said "Use your heads" to us! I am a very
"thinking" person, so I KNOW that there are ways she could have brought
up her concerns that would have made us think without making us feel
like "little kids". >>>

Have you responded yet? I'm not sure that I would. I'd write a
response to get it out of me, then not send it and ignore the comments.
That's me though, other people deal with these things better. I'm am
soooo not a person that deals with confrontation well at all!

>>>It reminds me of conversations I've had with my husband about how
they didn't know much of what was going on with him growing up because
he knew they would overreact. And for me, it speaks to exactly what I do
and DON'T want in my relationship with my kids. I want them to feel
listened to, respected, loved... and to feel like they can talk to me
about anything.>>>

There are things even now that I do NOT discuss with my parents. I have
a pretty good relationship with them too, but there are areas that I
just won't go to with them in conversation. I already have a waaaay
better relationship with my 15 yr old than they ever had with my 15 yr
old self. I could do a lot to damage that relationship, and I recognize
how fragile these things are, so I don't do those things that my own
parents did to me.

DaBreeze21

> The first post and follow-up are here.
> http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2007/05/holly-news-sandra-muse.html
> http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2007/05/control-and-jealous-craziness.html
>
> I took the first set of comments and put them here:
> http://sandradodd.com/blogcomments/license

Thanks for the links. I am much more likely to be trusting and am a very optimistic person. I really believe that you can CHOOSE to be happy. I do understand people having fears but it is definitely not the way I want to live.

Also I have to say I feel like kids who are put into daycare, preschool, etc, are in more danger than my daughter who is with me 24/7! Anyways, once again thanks for the response and perspective -- I've already "vented" to the people in my life that I love and respect (namely sister and parents and a couple of friends that I really respect)but I am finding more and more that this list REALLY helps me sort through my thinking. (I am very close with my family and sometimes I know that they just agree with me because we see things the same way...) I really like to check in here and see if I am stuck in some way of thinking. I know that the topic here is unschooling, but for me the most important things in my life -- my daughter (and soon to be baby!)and the relationships in my life are THE MOST important things and people here always have something worthwhile to say regarding them.

Susan

Mary Hickcox

2 things I thought when reading your email.  First just let her say what she wants and try to not let it bother you.  I know it's hard but people like that will probably not change so it's best to just enjoy them for what you can and try and forget about the rest.  The other thing is that I think it's fine to have nakie kid pics online IF it's a private site.  Facebook is the farthest thing from private, everyone on there can see and that really doesn't seem OK to me.  I use a private blog where you have to be approved to see my pics and noone else can see them via someone that is a friend.  I don't think it's the end of the world but probably best to not do it.  Ultimately the decision has to be yours though.  Your mil seems to be right about this and maybe should talk nicely but she is the grandma and may just be looking out for the best interest of your child, meaning at least she cares.  Hopefully and wasn't just trying to meddle:) 

Mary mama to Dylan (10), Colin (5 1/2) and Theo Benjamin (born 8-28-07)
"Be who you want your children to be."    Unknown   "Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."
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Jenny C

>>>The other thing is that I think it's fine to have nakie kid pics
online IF it's a private site. >>>

What is your reasoning behind this? I see nothing wrong with naked
children, they are innocent and sweet and the subject of many
photographs.

>>>Facebook is the farthest thing from private, everyone on there can
see and that really doesn't seem OK to me.>>>

Actually, that's not true. You can set your profile to private, and if
you have your profile so that people can view it, you can still set
pictures to private, although if could violate the terms of use on FB
since FB is even weird about nursing babies. Even so, if everyone could
see it, why would naked children be inherently not OK?

Mary Hickcox

I LOVE nakie kid pics but honestly I do not want certain people looking at my kids in certain ways.  Might be irrational but I would worry about it.


Mary
mama to 3 incredible boys
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Nancy Machaj

I have hundreds, perhaps even thousands of pictures on flickr.
Recently, I was looking at my stat sites, and I noticed that there
were quite a few selected as favorites by people I didnt know. I
looked at those photos, every single one happened to be of my
daughter in the tub, or otherwise not completely dressed. Not only
that, but these photos then had a spike of viewers, so someone out
there was searching all my pictures, and then sharing ones of my
seminude child, and other people were then looking at them. Did NOT
seem innocent. I immediately changed all my privacy settings on
flickr, but it has also made me more inclined to save those pics for
my computer only.
Not that I think my daughter could be hurt, or that these people
would do anything else to pursue her, but honestly? Grossed me out.

I have plenty of other cute pics to share. I dont think pictures of
my daughter without clothes are dirty, but Im not willing to share
them with anyone who might think they are.

Nancy


*****
blogging at:
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net




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Joanna Murphy

"And if anyone has any interesting perspectives/thoughts about pictures online/dangers etc, I would be interested in hearing them. "

I had an experience once on an airport shuttle bus that changed the way I look at some of this stuff that had to do with being public.

We were riding to the terminal and I noticed a man sitting across from us looking at my son (about 10 at the time). The hackles on the back of my neck raised, which I'd never experienced before and haven't experienced since. As he continued to look, I got more and more upset, to the point that I was ready to stand up and literally put myself between my happy, oblivious son and this guy who I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt was a pedophile. But we pulled up to the terminal and he left. I can't even describe the ways in which I wanted to tear this guy apart limb from limb, and I'm a very peaceful person who doesn't make up nasty stories about other people!! lol I almost always try to give the benefit of the doubt--but in this case my reaction was so complete and so visceral that there isn't even a shred of doubt in my mind.

This is one of the thoughts that occasionally comes back to me when I ponder these types of issues--do I want to expose my children to the possibility of someone like that viewing them. I know the chances aren't great on facebook, because it's friends, etc.--but you also never know--and once things are out on the internet... I just think it's best to share certain things with people IRL.

There's also the issue of their privacy. I don't post any pictures of them that they wouldn't approve of--and I'm pretty sure my 13 yo wouldn't be thrilled now to have naked pics. of himself at 3 floating around my facebook page.

Joanna

Joanna Murphy

> What is your reasoning behind this? I see nothing wrong with naked
> children, they are innocent and sweet and the subject of many
> photographs.
>

I think there are different levels of comfort with the public aspect of displaying naked pics, but the truth is that not everyone viewing them is innocent and sweet. In fact, there might even be legality issues with displaying naked pics. of children because it falls under child porn.

There is a case right now of a younger teenage girl texting naked pics. of herself and being prosecuted under the child porn laws.

Joanna

Jenny C

> This is one of the thoughts that occasionally comes back to me when I
ponder these types of issues--do I want to expose my children to the
possibility of someone like that viewing them. I know the chances aren't
great on facebook, because it's friends, etc.--but you also never
know--and once things are out on the internet... I just think it's best
to share certain things with people IRL.
>
> There's also the issue of their privacy. I don't post any pictures of
them that they wouldn't approve of--and I'm pretty sure my 13 yo
wouldn't be thrilled now to have naked pics. of himself at 3 floating
around my facebook page.
>


I've always been very careful about taking pictures of my kids, that
don't show everything, and I mostly don't put any of those things
online. It's not really anything to do with online predators though.
It's more about how they would feel about it.

However, I love seeing pictures of kids in the buff, their natural state
of being, it's innocent and sweet and nice to think about the world in
that state of innocence. I really try not to live my life in fear of
the few creeps out there in the world. I really do think most people
are good at heart.

I've also had many friends that are not from the US, and the US is very
different and prudish about nudity compared to other parts of the world,
and many of these friends have pointed this out, and how odd people in
the US are about these things.

Joanna Murphy

I really try not to live my life in fear of
> the few creeps out there in the world. I really do think most people
> are good at heart.

I agree! I think it's really important to unschooling to have that positive attitude toward the world and not succumb to fear-based thinking and cynicism. Last year there was that whole article about the woman with a 9 yo son who wanted so badly to find his way home, so she dropped him in the department store to do that. He was prepared and had maps, etc. And he got home just fine. Anyway, that story caused such disagreement amongst our local list because there are people on it who are very determined to see the world as a big, scary dangerous place. I didn't agree.

The experience I had with the creep on the bus, however, really brought home for me that not EVERYone has a good heart. So I think, again, it's about balance. There is no either or on this one--maybe common sense and caution balanced with optimism about people, innocence and freedom.

Joanna
>

Mary Hickcox

I think you can still have a positive view of the world AND keep your kids safe.  Letting them make their own decsions is wonderful but at times a broader knowledge of the world can get in the way of that.  It is our job to keep them safe, and that is not being consumed by fear.  Lots of people are consumed by fear but logically worrying about your child's safety does not fit that bill!

Mary mama to Dylan (10), Colin (5 1/2) and Theo Benjamin (born 8-28-07)
"Be who you want your children to be."    Unknown   "Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle."


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missalexmissalex

>
Last year there was that whole article about the woman with a 9 yo son who wanted so badly to find his way home, so she dropped him in the department store to do that. He was prepared and had maps, etc. And he got home just fine. Anyway, that story caused such disagreement amongst our local list because there are people on it who are very determined to see the world as a big, scary dangerous place. I didn't agree.

In case anyone is interested, that mom has a book coming out. It's called Free-Range Kids. This is her blog:
http://freerangekids.wordpress.com/
There's some good stuff there.

Alex
mom to Katya, 22 mos
who has nakey pictures on our nonpublic blog :)