Food, When the Parent is the "Picky" Eater
kelly_sturman
One of my daughters saw, on late night TV,
the author of a cookbook promoting both
the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
insects) and the idea that eating insects
is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
on the subject.
Now, of course, she wants to order the
insects, or start farming them on her own, and try
out the recipes. But the rest of us are having
a really hard time finding enthusiasm for the
idea of eating insects. I was able to eat a
chocolate covered cricket with some persuasion
from DD, and I have heard that ground insects
find their way into many food products, but a whole
meal of insects? I'm having a hard time with it.
The pictures in the cookbooks are beautiful, but
I think I would have a hard time if those dishes were in
front of me, on my table. EVEN THOUGH I would know
they had been lovingly prepared for me by DD.
I feel kinda like Indiana Jones when he is
presented with the goat eyeball to eat. But then,
he was only concerned with not offending his host;
I want not to quash my DDs enthusiasm. I guess
a meal of mealworms is in my future.
Then we've got several in the family who
enjoy fish heads (and particularly the eyeballs).
They are not trying to sell me on the idea
of trying fish heads out, though, b/c typically
we only have two fish and at least three people
who are interested in eating the heads.
Of course, the idea that bugs or fish heads or
fill-in-the-blank is "icky" is a cultural construct.
I will keep telling myself that as I try the stink
bug souffle. (The cookbooks say the name is
a misnomer; supposedly, they have a nutty taste.)
Kelly Sturman
the author of a cookbook promoting both
the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
insects) and the idea that eating insects
is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
on the subject.
Now, of course, she wants to order the
insects, or start farming them on her own, and try
out the recipes. But the rest of us are having
a really hard time finding enthusiasm for the
idea of eating insects. I was able to eat a
chocolate covered cricket with some persuasion
from DD, and I have heard that ground insects
find their way into many food products, but a whole
meal of insects? I'm having a hard time with it.
The pictures in the cookbooks are beautiful, but
I think I would have a hard time if those dishes were in
front of me, on my table. EVEN THOUGH I would know
they had been lovingly prepared for me by DD.
I feel kinda like Indiana Jones when he is
presented with the goat eyeball to eat. But then,
he was only concerned with not offending his host;
I want not to quash my DDs enthusiasm. I guess
a meal of mealworms is in my future.
Then we've got several in the family who
enjoy fish heads (and particularly the eyeballs).
They are not trying to sell me on the idea
of trying fish heads out, though, b/c typically
we only have two fish and at least three people
who are interested in eating the heads.
Of course, the idea that bugs or fish heads or
fill-in-the-blank is "icky" is a cultural construct.
I will keep telling myself that as I try the stink
bug souffle. (The cookbooks say the name is
a misnomer; supposedly, they have a nutty taste.)
Kelly Sturman
Sandra Dodd
-=One of my daughters saw, on late night TV,
the author of a cookbook promoting both
the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
insects) and the idea that eating insects
is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
on the subject.-=-
I would encourage my kids to pursue that interest when they were grown
and had their own kitchens.
Not everything has to happen right now.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the author of a cookbook promoting both
the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
insects) and the idea that eating insects
is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
on the subject.-=-
I would encourage my kids to pursue that interest when they were grown
and had their own kitchens.
Not everything has to happen right now.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy Curry
I had to smile at this post, my daughter has added cooking to her current passions (I so love using that word describing the kids' interests because it is so true). She hasn't ventured into the realm of insect meals, though the 4 yr old would probably enjoy it, he still eats worms from time to time. I am not sure how I would feel about adding that to her current repertoire of foods she cooks. She likes mommy to sample the things she makes. That might be one she would go to Pa-Pa's and cook, he will literally eat anything that doesn't eat him first and enjoys fish heads and other odd food delicacies.
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 6:55:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Food, When the Parent is the "Picky" Eater
-=One of my daughters saw, on late night TV,
the author of a cookbook promoting both
the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
insects) and the idea that eating insects
is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
on the subject.-=-
I would encourage my kids to pursue that interest when they were grown
and had their own kitchens.
Not everything has to happen right now.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/
"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."
Rachel Carson
________________________________
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 2009 6:55:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Food, When the Parent is the "Picky" Eater
-=One of my daughters saw, on late night TV,
the author of a cookbook promoting both
the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
insects) and the idea that eating insects
is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
on the subject.-=-
I would encourage my kids to pursue that interest when they were grown
and had their own kitchens.
Not everything has to happen right now.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
space_and_freedom
--- In [email protected], "kelly_sturman" <kelly_sturman@...> wrote:
There are some things that one does not even want one bite of and that respect should be extended to children as well.
Good luck,
Jen H. (DD8, DD6, DS3)
http://crazychicknlady.livejournal.com/
>I'd probably order some insects for her to cook, but I'd probably beg off on eating them. Maybe give her a big hug, and use this as a chance to talk about how people can love each other and still like different things. It's not a rejection of her or her culinary skills, it's a desire to not eat bugs.
> One of my daughters saw, on late night TV,
> the author of a cookbook promoting both
> the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
> insects) and the idea that eating insects
> is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
> intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
> on the subject.
> Now, of course, she wants to order the
> insects, or start farming them on her own, and try
> out the recipes.
> I feel kinda like Indiana Jones when he is
> presented with the goat eyeball to eat. But then,
> he was only concerned with not offending his host;
> I want not to quash my DDs enthusiasm.
> Then we've got several in the family whoThen they may be brave enough to enjoy your DD's cooking.
> enjoy fish heads (and particularly the eyeballs).
> They are not trying to sell me on the ideaThis seems to me the perfect example for why it is so unreasonable to expect a child to at least try one bite of something before deciding she doesn't like it.
> of trying fish heads out, though, b/c typically
> we only have two fish and at least three people
> who are interested in eating the heads.
>
> Of course, the idea that bugs or fish heads or
> fill-in-the-blank is "icky" is a cultural construct.
There are some things that one does not even want one bite of and that respect should be extended to children as well.
Good luck,
Jen H. (DD8, DD6, DS3)
http://crazychicknlady.livejournal.com/
Pam Sorooshian
On 4/14/2009 4:45 PM, space_and_freedom wrote:
with insects and it was pretty cool. By the end, I was willing to take a
bite, out of curiosity. But I wasn't the only one - the line to taste a
sample was REALLY long and after waiting about ten minutes we could tell
it would be over an hour wait. Since nobody else was going to take a
taste, we moved on. I don't like everything - don't like sushi at all,
for example, but if other people eat it and like it, I do like to give
it a try. I'm not squeamish.
-pam
> I'd probably order some insects for her to cook, but I'd probably beg off on eating them. Maybe give her a big hug, and use this as a chance to talk about how people can love each other and still like different things. It's not a rejection of her or her culinary skills, it's a desire to not eat bugs.I'd eat a bit. We went to a demo at our county fair by a guy who cooks
>
with insects and it was pretty cool. By the end, I was willing to take a
bite, out of curiosity. But I wasn't the only one - the line to taste a
sample was REALLY long and after waiting about ten minutes we could tell
it would be over an hour wait. Since nobody else was going to take a
taste, we moved on. I don't like everything - don't like sushi at all,
for example, but if other people eat it and like it, I do like to give
it a try. I'm not squeamish.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-LOL! But really, it is an eco-friendly way to feed the world,-=-
So might be eating dogs and cats, but our culture doesn't allow it.
We don't eat horses, either. We don't eat bugs, either.
If people want to make exceptions they might be able to (depends on
local laws and prejudices). Just because one culture drinks milk
doesn't mean it's equally good for all people in the world, and insect
eating could be the same way.
In France the eat snails. In Korea, I hear, some people eat dogs.
In India, lots of people won't eat beef.
Most people I know won't eat pork rinds. <g> I don't try to make them
do it.
There's no reason for people to be pressed to eat what they don't want
to eat. There are many reasons for people NOT to be pressed to eat
anything at all.
-=So to say, "you have to wait until you have your own kitchen,"
when my only reason forsaying no is that I am viscerally grossed
out, with, admittedly,no good reason to be, I think is shutting
down her interest unfairly. Exercising veto power indiscriminately.-=-
It's not arbitrary. It's not indiscriminate. It shouldn't shut down
her interest, either. Keith was interested in going in to space. Did
his parents shut down his interest because they didn't arrange for it
to happen? (His dad was even a missile range controller; still
didn't stow him away in anything.)'
-=-If parenting mindfully means facing things that make me
uncomfortable, and asking why, and seeing if I can look at it
a different way, well, "Hey, Mom, will you eat my bug stew?"
certainly deserves consideration. -=-
Not if you're viscerally grossed out.
Especially not if the question is asked with even the slightest intent
to gross you out.
Parenting mindfully doesn't mean making the parents so powerless that
the kids can make them eat bugs.
-=-
Seriously, if I don't accept her "far out" food choices now,
can I expect her to continue to share her unique self with me
in future? -=-
Sure. If you're honest with her, and she's honest with you, why would
honesty not grow?
If you eat bugs to prove you don't mind her being weird, that's not
the most honest scenario. "Being weird" is being other than one
actually is.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So might be eating dogs and cats, but our culture doesn't allow it.
We don't eat horses, either. We don't eat bugs, either.
If people want to make exceptions they might be able to (depends on
local laws and prejudices). Just because one culture drinks milk
doesn't mean it's equally good for all people in the world, and insect
eating could be the same way.
In France the eat snails. In Korea, I hear, some people eat dogs.
In India, lots of people won't eat beef.
Most people I know won't eat pork rinds. <g> I don't try to make them
do it.
There's no reason for people to be pressed to eat what they don't want
to eat. There are many reasons for people NOT to be pressed to eat
anything at all.
-=So to say, "you have to wait until you have your own kitchen,"
when my only reason forsaying no is that I am viscerally grossed
out, with, admittedly,no good reason to be, I think is shutting
down her interest unfairly. Exercising veto power indiscriminately.-=-
It's not arbitrary. It's not indiscriminate. It shouldn't shut down
her interest, either. Keith was interested in going in to space. Did
his parents shut down his interest because they didn't arrange for it
to happen? (His dad was even a missile range controller; still
didn't stow him away in anything.)'
-=-If parenting mindfully means facing things that make me
uncomfortable, and asking why, and seeing if I can look at it
a different way, well, "Hey, Mom, will you eat my bug stew?"
certainly deserves consideration. -=-
Not if you're viscerally grossed out.
Especially not if the question is asked with even the slightest intent
to gross you out.
Parenting mindfully doesn't mean making the parents so powerless that
the kids can make them eat bugs.
-=-
Seriously, if I don't accept her "far out" food choices now,
can I expect her to continue to share her unique self with me
in future? -=-
Sure. If you're honest with her, and she's honest with you, why would
honesty not grow?
If you eat bugs to prove you don't mind her being weird, that's not
the most honest scenario. "Being weird" is being other than one
actually is.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 4/14/2009 8:06 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
I do think you should support it and let her use the kitchen to
experiment with it. Maybe it sounds a lot more extreme to Sandra in
Albuquerque than to me here in Southern California (where people do
eat dog and horse and buffalo and ostrich). I'd want the kitchen kept
clean - not leave stuff around to gross out other people.
interest in spite of our own very distinct lack of interest seems okay.
Singing in public makes me uncomfortable enough that I can't bring
myself to do it, but I've supported that interest in my kids - for years
(without actually doing it myself, I mean).
-pam
> -=-You can accept her interest in it without eating them yourself.
> Seriously, if I don't accept her "far out" food choices now,
> can I expect her to continue to share her unique self with me
> in future? -=-
>
I do think you should support it and let her use the kitchen to
experiment with it. Maybe it sounds a lot more extreme to Sandra in
Albuquerque than to me here in Southern California (where people do
eat dog and horse and buffalo and ostrich). I'd want the kitchen kept
clean - not leave stuff around to gross out other people.
> Sure. If you're honest with her, and she's honest with you, why wouldIf you eat bugs against your will, that is dishonest. But supporting an
> honesty not grow?
>
> If you eat bugs to prove you don't mind her being weird, that's not
> the most honest scenario. "Being weird" is being other than one
> actually is.
>
interest in spite of our own very distinct lack of interest seems okay.
Singing in public makes me uncomfortable enough that I can't bring
myself to do it, but I've supported that interest in my kids - for years
(without actually doing it myself, I mean).
-pam
kelly_sturman
Much food for thought <smile>,
from both of you, as always!
Kelly
from both of you, as always!
Kelly
Lauren
>>> Now, of course, she wants to order theWhat a fascinating topic! I've thought about this myself every once in a while, then watched people on tv actually eating bugs and pushed it out of my mind. ;) (I think there is a show on the food network or the travel channel called "Bizarre Foods"--your daughter might enjoy that. I also LOVE the show "Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations" on the travel channel--he goes to various places around the world and takes part in the cultural practices and especially food prep/eating of that area's traditional foods--I'm certain I've seen insects eaten on both shows ;)
> insects, or start farming them on her own, and try
> out the recipes.<<<
A recent passion of mine has been microbial nutrition--fermenting foods (to increase nutrients and digestability) on the countertop at home. Not sure if she'd be interested, but your post got me thinking of it because it's all about growing the beneficial 'bugs' and bacteria that populate our digestive tracts, that help us to have good gut flora and aiding in digestion. It's a food prep/preservation method that has been (and continues to be) used by most cultures throughout human history (from what I've read).
Making things like sour kraut, kimchi, kefir, yogurt, sourdough breads, etc. *can* be soooo fun and delicious. And it's really easy and pretty cheap (and just yum yum yummy!) I feel like a scientist with each new 'creation', and just find it all very exciting! "Wild Fermentation" is a great book to check out for those interested in learning more about it...
Oh, and as far as *eating* the bugs, I agree w/ pp's who mentioned supporting your daughter's passion, but not eating them if you don't want to. If her cooking them made you uncomfortable, maybe even having a separate set of pots and utensils for her insect cooking explorations could be helpful? All of this just depends on your own comfort level!
Good luck!
Lauren :)
Jenny C
> One of my daughters saw, on late night TV,This whole conversation has reminded me of that movie Nim's Island.
> the author of a cookbook promoting both
> the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
> insects) and the idea that eating insects
> is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
> intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
> on the subject.
That kid is not only livin the unschooling life, but she eats meal
worms!
Sandra Dodd
-=-A recent passion of mine has been microbial nutrition--fermenting
foods (to increase nutrients and digestability) on the countertop at
home. Not sure if she'd be interested, but your post got me thinking
of it because it's all about growing the beneficial 'bugs' and
bacteria that populate our digestive tracts, that help us to have good
gut flora and aiding in digestion.-=-
I've got nothing against eating yeast bread or yogurt or bean curd or
cheese.
I feel bad for the Jains in India whose religion required the most
observant of them to strain their water and breathe through cloth so
they wouldn't kill a gnat accidentally. When the microscope came
along, they all because deep sinners. I don't know how they've dealt
with that.
-=-maybe even having a separate set of pots and utensils for her
insect cooking explorations could be helpful? All of this just depends
on your own comfort level!-=-
Like a bug-kosher kitchen?
Keith and I were talking about this last night. People who eat
lobsters and clams and crabs, especially those who catch them and
clean and cook them, might not be so bothered by the idea of
grasshoppers, or the might. I used to eat fried crawdads, but
that's not like the crayfish, whole, in Louisiana. This were large
crawdad found in West Texas by my papaw, taken apart by my granny so
that there were two, three, four little pieces of meat that didn't
look at all like a big mud-bug to me.
Squeamishness is a legitimate reason to politely turn down food.
Forcing a kid to eat pork but not allowing lamb, that's just
prejudice. Forcing lamb and forbidding pork, that might be
religion. But nowhere in unschooling-land should anyone be forcing
anyone to eat anything!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
foods (to increase nutrients and digestability) on the countertop at
home. Not sure if she'd be interested, but your post got me thinking
of it because it's all about growing the beneficial 'bugs' and
bacteria that populate our digestive tracts, that help us to have good
gut flora and aiding in digestion.-=-
I've got nothing against eating yeast bread or yogurt or bean curd or
cheese.
I feel bad for the Jains in India whose religion required the most
observant of them to strain their water and breathe through cloth so
they wouldn't kill a gnat accidentally. When the microscope came
along, they all because deep sinners. I don't know how they've dealt
with that.
-=-maybe even having a separate set of pots and utensils for her
insect cooking explorations could be helpful? All of this just depends
on your own comfort level!-=-
Like a bug-kosher kitchen?
Keith and I were talking about this last night. People who eat
lobsters and clams and crabs, especially those who catch them and
clean and cook them, might not be so bothered by the idea of
grasshoppers, or the might. I used to eat fried crawdads, but
that's not like the crayfish, whole, in Louisiana. This were large
crawdad found in West Texas by my papaw, taken apart by my granny so
that there were two, three, four little pieces of meat that didn't
look at all like a big mud-bug to me.
Squeamishness is a legitimate reason to politely turn down food.
Forcing a kid to eat pork but not allowing lamb, that's just
prejudice. Forcing lamb and forbidding pork, that might be
religion. But nowhere in unschooling-land should anyone be forcing
anyone to eat anything!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Bentley
>Maybe you could find her a cooking school nearby that has classes for
>> One of my daughters saw, on late night TV,
>> the author of a cookbook promoting both
>> the cookbook (the topic of which is edible
>> insects) and the idea that eating insects
>> is eco-friendly, healthy, and tasty. DD was
>> intrigued, so we purchased a few cookbooks
>> on the subject.
>
cooking insects!
http://www.philly.com/philly/restaurants/20080814_Bugs_yum__Entomologist_conducts_insect_cooking_class.html
Then she can be amongst others interested in it, maybe get a sense of
what she likes to eat, and she can cook and taste without grossing you
out. At least, not right away!
Robin B.
Sandra Dodd
-=-Doesn't allow it as in, it is a cultural taboo. Legalities are
another
matter. According to Slate, eating dog meat is legal in 44 states in
the U.S. (How reliable a source is Slate?-=-
I don't even know what "Slate" is, but just because there's not a law
against something doesn't necessarily make it "legal."
There's not a law against putting a kitten in a box kite and sending
him up for a ride, but probably because it's just not something people
do. If someone does this now, because they read it on this list, that
would be somewhere between reactionary and stupid, and if the
neighbors complained they could probably be charged with cruelty to an
animal.
I doubt that 44 U.S. state repealed laws against eating dogs; probably
they didn't have a law in the first place because the taboo is
strong. Tradition can't be repealed.
-=-OTOH, 80% of the world's population eats insects intentionally--that
figure keeps popping up on site after site--and we've all probably eaten
insects accidentally, or without knowing it.-=-
The fact that flour might have mealy worms or corn has worms or apples
without worms might still have the potential future for worms (because
the eggs were laid in the blossoms before the apple was formed) is not
remotely related to cooking up exoskeletal creatures, and a mom
insulting other unschoolers for suggesting they don't want to eat any.
-=-But about being weird? I don't think "Being weird" is "being other
than one actually is." It can be. -=-
The way you described it, it was. It was a choice to do something
for the sake of it being odd or shocking.
This is a gigantic science-fiction jump:
I didn't/don't do them to "be weird."
I do them b/c this is who I am.
According to wikipedia: ...
"The concept of Wyrd highlights the interconnected nature of all
actions and how they influence each other."...
And from http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread215126/pg1...
.... The word to describe this interconnectedness was "wyrd", which
was eventually perverted into the modern meaning of "weird".
WHOA! Come back to earth gravity!
There's a world (several fantasy worlds) of reconstructed and
imaginary "religion" and recycling of medieval words. They don't
even begin to trump the actual, normal English language. If 800
years ago there was a spelling of what became our modern "weird" that
was "wyrd," that does NOT mean the current term is a perversion. It
was a natural progression involving regional pronunciation, the great
vowel shift, and standardized spelling. From the older words, "wyrd"
and "worth" are related, but that doesn't mean either is "a
perversion" of the other. One meaning fell entirely out of common
usage; the concept was lost because beliefs changed. Where the older
idea of fate and the supernatural meets the modern idea of "kinda odd"
is in the creepy/spooky/eerie aspect. When someone is acting in a
mysterious way, that's weird.
Let's make things plainer and simpler, not creepy and weird.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
http://sandradodd.com/etymology
http://sandradodd.com/change
Too much noise about things unrelated to the simple, quiet ideas
behind unschooling are not good for this list. There are unlimited
opportunities to immerse oneself in argument and negativity and
fantasy and strife. There are very few opportunities to discuss
something as profound as how to see learning and life in a clearer
way. I'd like to preserve the focus of this list.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
another
matter. According to Slate, eating dog meat is legal in 44 states in
the U.S. (How reliable a source is Slate?-=-
I don't even know what "Slate" is, but just because there's not a law
against something doesn't necessarily make it "legal."
There's not a law against putting a kitten in a box kite and sending
him up for a ride, but probably because it's just not something people
do. If someone does this now, because they read it on this list, that
would be somewhere between reactionary and stupid, and if the
neighbors complained they could probably be charged with cruelty to an
animal.
I doubt that 44 U.S. state repealed laws against eating dogs; probably
they didn't have a law in the first place because the taboo is
strong. Tradition can't be repealed.
-=-OTOH, 80% of the world's population eats insects intentionally--that
figure keeps popping up on site after site--and we've all probably eaten
insects accidentally, or without knowing it.-=-
The fact that flour might have mealy worms or corn has worms or apples
without worms might still have the potential future for worms (because
the eggs were laid in the blossoms before the apple was formed) is not
remotely related to cooking up exoskeletal creatures, and a mom
insulting other unschoolers for suggesting they don't want to eat any.
-=-But about being weird? I don't think "Being weird" is "being other
than one actually is." It can be. -=-
The way you described it, it was. It was a choice to do something
for the sake of it being odd or shocking.
This is a gigantic science-fiction jump:
I didn't/don't do them to "be weird."
I do them b/c this is who I am.
According to wikipedia: ...
"The concept of Wyrd highlights the interconnected nature of all
actions and how they influence each other."...
And from http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread215126/pg1...
.... The word to describe this interconnectedness was "wyrd", which
was eventually perverted into the modern meaning of "weird".
WHOA! Come back to earth gravity!
There's a world (several fantasy worlds) of reconstructed and
imaginary "religion" and recycling of medieval words. They don't
even begin to trump the actual, normal English language. If 800
years ago there was a spelling of what became our modern "weird" that
was "wyrd," that does NOT mean the current term is a perversion. It
was a natural progression involving regional pronunciation, the great
vowel shift, and standardized spelling. From the older words, "wyrd"
and "worth" are related, but that doesn't mean either is "a
perversion" of the other. One meaning fell entirely out of common
usage; the concept was lost because beliefs changed. Where the older
idea of fate and the supernatural meets the modern idea of "kinda odd"
is in the creepy/spooky/eerie aspect. When someone is acting in a
mysterious way, that's weird.
Let's make things plainer and simpler, not creepy and weird.
http://sandradodd.com/balance
http://sandradodd.com/etymology
http://sandradodd.com/change
Too much noise about things unrelated to the simple, quiet ideas
behind unschooling are not good for this list. There are unlimited
opportunities to immerse oneself in argument and negativity and
fantasy and strife. There are very few opportunities to discuss
something as profound as how to see learning and life in a clearer
way. I'd like to preserve the focus of this list.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jenbgosh
"Parenting mindfully doesn't mean making the parents so powerless that
the kids can make them eat bugs."
I think this is going to be my new motto. It will certainly help me smile more, which, I recently learned here may help my marriage!
Can this be added to the random Quotes on your website, Sandra?
Jennie
the kids can make them eat bugs."
I think this is going to be my new motto. It will certainly help me smile more, which, I recently learned here may help my marriage!
Can this be added to the random Quotes on your website, Sandra?
Jennie
Pam Sorooshian
On 4/16/2009 5:57 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
*The fact that flour might have mealy worms or corn has worms or apples
without worms might still have the potential future for worms (because
the eggs were laid in the blossoms before the apple was formed) is not
remotely related to cooking up exoskeletal creatures, and a mom
insulting other unschoolers for suggesting they don't want to eat any.**
I think I'm the one who said, "I would eat it." But I didn't mean that
eating bugs was necessary to be a good unschooling mom - if it was taken
as insulting to those who wouldn't want to eat it, then I apologize for
that. My intention was to point out that we come at things like this
from different vantage points - I am a very adventurous eater - I ENJOY
trying out new and different foods, especially regional specialties. And
I live in a place where there is tremendous diversity, including
restaurants that specialize in dog meat. Plus, I love shrimp and I don't
see that as so different than insects, so the idea doesn't gross me out.
I'm sure if one of my daughters got really into this cooking with bugs
stuff, I'd get into it, too.
I was surprised, in fact, that all the immediate reactions were so
totally negative. The original poster was asking what would we do? Would
we, as unschoolers feel like we needed to support this interest? My own
answer is that I, personally, don't see why not? It doesn't mean that
those who find it distasteful have to actually EAT the stuff - but why
not support the interest in ways that are possible. It isn't immoral or
extremely dangerous. I'd rather support that than motorcycle riding or
jumping out of airplanes, myself.
I have a daughter who has always been extremely squeamish about the
insides of the human body. And another daughter who has always been
fascinated by it. We all went to see Body Worlds (the plasticized real
bodies traveling exhibit) and Rosie and I were totally absolutely
enthralled and could have happily spent a few long days in the exhibit.
Roxana rushed through and went outside to wait - she was sickened.
Later, she moaned, "What if I have kids who LIKE this kind of thing? How
will I be able to handle that?" I told her she could get their grandma
to support that particular interest.<g>
But, anyway, I think the question is part of the bigger issue of how to
we support our children's interests when we, ourselves, have negative
feelings about them. The negative feelings could be because it grosses
us out, or embarrasses us or scares us or other reasons.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-
Can this be added to the random Quotes on your website, Sandra? -=-
I think it's a little mystifying and creepy (weird) out of context. <g>
Those who knew the discussion... that's different. But thanks for the
kind words!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Can this be added to the random Quotes on your website, Sandra? -=-
I think it's a little mystifying and creepy (weird) out of context. <g>
Those who knew the discussion... that's different. But thanks for the
kind words!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
What I love about this story is this little moment:
<<<<Roxana rushed through and went outside to wait - she was sickened.
totally prepared and expecting to be great, mindful parents? Jayn talks,
with certainty and pleasure about how she will be passing on her toys and
dolls to her own children. She talks about how they will not have to go to
school.
There seems to be a confidence and enjoyment about the idea of having
children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
unschoolers.
I remember fear and anxiety about the idea of being a parent when I was much
younger. I remember as a child thinking angrily about how "I would remember
how it felt" to be treated badly, and not do it. There were times in my life
when the idea of having a child was horrifying.
Are we creating a ripple effect here? I hope so.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
<<<<Roxana rushed through and went outside to wait - she was sickened.
> Later, she moaned, "What if I have kids who LIKE this kind of thing? HowAre out unschooled children joyfully anticipating parenthood? Are they
> will I be able to handle that?" I told her she could get their grandma
> to support that particular interest>>>>
totally prepared and expecting to be great, mindful parents? Jayn talks,
with certainty and pleasure about how she will be passing on her toys and
dolls to her own children. She talks about how they will not have to go to
school.
There seems to be a confidence and enjoyment about the idea of having
children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
unschoolers.
I remember fear and anxiety about the idea of being a parent when I was much
younger. I remember as a child thinking angrily about how "I would remember
how it felt" to be treated badly, and not do it. There were times in my life
when the idea of having a child was horrifying.
Are we creating a ripple effect here? I hope so.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
Joyce Fetteroll
On Apr 17, 2009, at 1:03 AM, Robyn L. Coburn wrote:
natural for a particular child but every kid is different. Kat
doesn't seem much interested in parenthood. (I wasn't either.)
Joyce
> Are out unschooled children joyfully anticipating parenthood? Are theyI suspect unschooling parents are not getting in the way of what is
> totally prepared and expecting to be great, mindful parents?
natural for a particular child but every kid is different. Kat
doesn't seem much interested in parenthood. (I wasn't either.)
Joyce
JoyErin
Thank You for the short but enlightening conversation we had here from this
discussion. I really connected with that part that Pam wrote too (I can't
seem to copy and paste here - I'll work on that). There was a couple of
reasons... One was how nice it was to think about how unschooling is going
to be a part of so many of our lives for the rest of our lives and will
benefit any grandchildren we might have one day. :) I do think of future
grandchildren someday.
I also liked how Roxana was thinking about this as a future parent too. My
kids, ds 14 & dd 12, have never openly talked about having children in the
future in quite that way but they have mentioned being parents once or twice
over the years so I know they've thought about it. I don't think it was
much more than if they might go down that road though. I know that I've
said to them things like how glad I am that I've been able to learn how to
be a different parent than my own parents were. I know they've noticed for
awhile now that other parents do definitely parent much differently and
they've said how glad they are we are different than 'most' families.
Being nontraditional families the children might start questioning things
sooner than others.
I remember as a young girl pretending I had a child who I seem to remember
scolding alot. I think an unschool me would pretend very differently. I've
realized, over the years looking back, I was totally afraid of having
children too. I always knew I didn't want the relationship with my own
children I had with my parents. Until I knew I could do it differently I
wasn't ready to have children, I was still afraid but had more confidence.
Robyn wrote: Are we creating a ripple effect here? I think so. Any
unschool child who pretends or thinks of parenthood will have different
dreams and concerns than punishing and/or scolding their children. :)
Joy
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Robyn L. Coburn
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 6:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Entomophagy and Weirdness, Was Re: Food
What I love about this story is this little moment:
<<<<Roxana rushed through and went outside to wait - she was sickened.
totally prepared and expecting to be great, mindful parents? Jayn talks,
with certainty and pleasure about how she will be passing on her toys and
dolls to her own children. She talks about how they will not have to go to
school.
There seems to be a confidence and enjoyment about the idea of having
children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
unschoolers.
I remember fear and anxiety about the idea of being a parent when I was much
younger. I remember as a child thinking angrily about how "I would remember
how it felt" to be treated badly, and not do it. There were times in my life
when the idea of having a child was horrifying.
Are we creating a ripple effect here? I hope so.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.52/2053 - Release Date: 04/15/09
19:52:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
discussion. I really connected with that part that Pam wrote too (I can't
seem to copy and paste here - I'll work on that). There was a couple of
reasons... One was how nice it was to think about how unschooling is going
to be a part of so many of our lives for the rest of our lives and will
benefit any grandchildren we might have one day. :) I do think of future
grandchildren someday.
I also liked how Roxana was thinking about this as a future parent too. My
kids, ds 14 & dd 12, have never openly talked about having children in the
future in quite that way but they have mentioned being parents once or twice
over the years so I know they've thought about it. I don't think it was
much more than if they might go down that road though. I know that I've
said to them things like how glad I am that I've been able to learn how to
be a different parent than my own parents were. I know they've noticed for
awhile now that other parents do definitely parent much differently and
they've said how glad they are we are different than 'most' families.
Being nontraditional families the children might start questioning things
sooner than others.
I remember as a young girl pretending I had a child who I seem to remember
scolding alot. I think an unschool me would pretend very differently. I've
realized, over the years looking back, I was totally afraid of having
children too. I always knew I didn't want the relationship with my own
children I had with my parents. Until I knew I could do it differently I
wasn't ready to have children, I was still afraid but had more confidence.
Robyn wrote: Are we creating a ripple effect here? I think so. Any
unschool child who pretends or thinks of parenthood will have different
dreams and concerns than punishing and/or scolding their children. :)
Joy
_____
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Robyn L. Coburn
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 6:03 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Entomophagy and Weirdness, Was Re: Food
What I love about this story is this little moment:
<<<<Roxana rushed through and went outside to wait - she was sickened.
> Later, she moaned, "What if I have kids who LIKE this kind of thing? HowAre out unschooled children joyfully anticipating parenthood? Are they
> will I be able to handle that?" I told her she could get their grandma
> to support that particular interest>>>>
totally prepared and expecting to be great, mindful parents? Jayn talks,
with certainty and pleasure about how she will be passing on her toys and
dolls to her own children. She talks about how they will not have to go to
school.
There seems to be a confidence and enjoyment about the idea of having
children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
unschoolers.
I remember fear and anxiety about the idea of being a parent when I was much
younger. I remember as a child thinking angrily about how "I would remember
how it felt" to be treated badly, and not do it. There were times in my life
when the idea of having a child was horrifying.
Are we creating a ripple effect here? I hope so.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.52/2053 - Release Date: 04/15/09
19:52:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
>>>> Are out unschooled children joyfully anticipating parenthood? Arethey
totally prepared and expecting to be great, mindful parents? Jayn talks,
with certainty and pleasure about how she will be passing on her toys
and
dolls to her own children. She talks about how they will not have to go
to
school. <<<<
I think so, Robyn. Karl is only 5 and he's been talking about his own
kids someday for a while now. And his wife too. Which is amazing to
me, considering all the turmoil me and Brian have been through in our
own marriage (not recommending it or saying it has no harmful
effect(s)). Karl is very confident about the future. I know some
people will say he *is* only 5. I remember being so torn up about life
by 8 or 9 years old that I had already sworn off having any kids of my
own. Not all school kids swear off family life but many of them do.
So that isn't universal.
I'd like to hear about those unschooling kids and what they think. I
think I'll go post to them in Unschooling Offspring and see what they
say.
~Katherine
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
There seems to be a confidence and enjoyment about the idea of having
children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
unschoolers.
-=-=-----=-=--
My 3 year old DD Gigi talks a lot about keeping her things to give to her babies and how she has "leitinho ( milk) in her breasts for them.
She is very young put I can see she already thinks of having her own babies.
My son says he wants to have 4 or 5 kids too.
We are saving some of his toys like all his Thomas for his kids.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
unschoolers.
-=-=-----=-=--
My 3 year old DD Gigi talks a lot about keeping her things to give to her babies and how she has "leitinho ( milk) in her breasts for them.
She is very young put I can see she already thinks of having her own babies.
My son says he wants to have 4 or 5 kids too.
We are saving some of his toys like all his Thomas for his kids.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 4/17/2009 9:14 AM, katherand@... wrote:
absolutely hopes to have children (some day) and unschooling is for
sure. She's slightly anxious that she'll fall in love with someone who
won't be on board with unschooling and she says that will be a big
consideration whenever dating anybody. She cannot imagine how she'd
stand it if she had kids and had to make them go to school. If they
wanted to go to school, she'd support that, but she'd try to find out
why and meet their needs outside of regular schooling.
Mostly that was in her own words....I didn't type quite fast enough to
make it a perfect quote.
-pam
> I'd like to hear about those unschooling kids and what they think. IRoxana is sitting here beside me, so I asked her, and she says she
> think I'll go post to them in Unschooling Offspring and see what they
> say.
>
absolutely hopes to have children (some day) and unschooling is for
sure. She's slightly anxious that she'll fall in love with someone who
won't be on board with unschooling and she says that will be a big
consideration whenever dating anybody. She cannot imagine how she'd
stand it if she had kids and had to make them go to school. If they
wanted to go to school, she'd support that, but she'd try to find out
why and meet their needs outside of regular schooling.
Mostly that was in her own words....I didn't type quite fast enough to
make it a perfect quote.
-pam
Joanna Murphy
--- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...> wrote:
Their attitudes are VERY different from mine. I didn't think I would have children, and if I did I "might" have adopted one. Life, hormones and growing up changed me, although I held that belief until I was about 26ish. Their whole childhood is sooooo different from mine, thank goodness!
Joanna
>My kids have both (1 boy 1 girl) expressed a general positiveness toward having children and homeschooling them. My daughter is downright enthusiastic about it (she's 10 right now).
> There seems to be a confidence and enjoyment about the idea of having
> children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
> unschoolers.
> -=-=-----=-=--
Their attitudes are VERY different from mine. I didn't think I would have children, and if I did I "might" have adopted one. Life, hormones and growing up changed me, although I held that belief until I was about 26ish. Their whole childhood is sooooo different from mine, thank goodness!
Joanna
emiLy Q.
My 5 yo daughter talks about saving things for her babies.
I don't remember thinking about it when I was five, but by the time I was 15
or 16, I wanted 6 kids. I wrote a major paper in junior year English about
my future career as a homemaker!
I changed my mind and now am happy as a self-employed business owner mom of
two.
-emiLy, mom to Delia (5) & Henry (ALMOST 2)
Happy Pottying!
http://www.HappyPottying.com
I don't remember thinking about it when I was five, but by the time I was 15
or 16, I wanted 6 kids. I wrote a major paper in junior year English about
my future career as a homemaker!
I changed my mind and now am happy as a self-employed business owner mom of
two.
-emiLy, mom to Delia (5) & Henry (ALMOST 2)
Happy Pottying!
http://www.HappyPottying.com
On 4/17/09 6:48 PM, "Joanna Murphy" <ridingmom@...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], BRIAN POLIKOWSKY <polykowholsteins@...>
> wrote:
>>
>> There seems to be a confidence and enjoyment about the idea of having
>> children of their own here. I wonder if it is close to universal amongst
>> unschoolers.
>> -=-=-----=-=--
>
> My kids have both (1 boy 1 girl) expressed a general positiveness toward
> having children and homeschooling them. My daughter is downright enthusiastic
> about it (she's 10 right now).
>
> Their attitudes are VERY different from mine. I didn't think I would have
> children, and if I did I "might" have adopted one. Life, hormones and growing
> up changed me, although I held that belief until I was about 26ish. Their
> whole childhood is sooooo different from mine, thank goodness!
>
> Joanna
>