kelly_sturman

The question, in a nutshell, is: when
a loved one is terminally ill, how and when
to share that news with the children?

And I'm guessing the answer is, "It depends."

The longer version: I've recently gone through
an experience where I felt that the right thing was
to tell my children that their grandmother hasn't
got long to live. But their grandmother has been
adamant that they not be told. So I didn't
tell, until she faced a health crisis that led them to
ask me point blank, "Is Grandma's cancer back?"
My face revealed the truth even as my words
didn't. My response was, "I need to talk to your
grandma about that, and then, we can talk more."

She did give permission to answer their direct
question honestly, which I did, but I could tell that
my children were disappointed in me that I had
not told them sooner. I had lied to them, a lie
of omission, and that shook their trust in me.
I told them that I had kept the truth from them
specifically because their grandmother had
told me that she did not want them to know.
She didn't want them to worry. She didn't want
them to "fuss over her." She just wants to enjoy
what time she has left without everybody getting
all weepy at the thought that "this may be the
last visit." She wanted to spare them the negativity.
I told the kids that keeping the secret hadn't felt good to me,
but I felt, at the same time, that respecting their grandma's
privacy was the better of two hard choices.

One of my daughters said to me, "Mom, I want you to
promise me that from now on, you will always tell me the truth,
no matter how painful it is,okay?"

OUCH!

Kelly Sturman

Sandra Dodd

Sandra Dodd

-=-She did give permission to answer their direct
question honestly, which I did, but I could tell that
my children -=-

The relationship between a mother and young child is the primary
business of that mother. The relationship between an older mother
and an adult child is primarily the business of the adult child. At
some point, say "I'm too old for you tell me what to do."

The most extreme case I've ever seen of one adult telling another
adult what to do was an ex husband telling the ex wife "I don't want
you to ever mention my name when I'm not there. Never."

How stupid.

She half thought he had the right to do that, that he had the right to
"privacy," but it's not so.

Our children are counting on us to make rational, responsible
decisions for their benefit.

I'm not saying to tell little kids more than they can handle, I'm just
saying that grandmothers don't get to decide what grandchildren know
or don't know. It's not a matter of "permission." If there's a
persuasive reason, great! If the middle person (adult child/parent of
young children) is persuaded, that's fair. But to dictate to an adult
what she can or cannot say or do with her own children is out of bounds.

That's my opinion.


Sandra

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Tammy Curry

We had a similar situation with our daughter and step daughter a few years ago. We had a very hard decision to make, neither grandmother wanted the girls to know that they were dying. We were celebrating life at the same time as our son was born during this time. We waited too long to tell them and that hurt them as much as it did to lose their grandmothers. We lost them both within months of each other. We thought we were doing the right thing but a lie by omission is still a lie and it broke their trust in us.

We have learned and have been up front with our daughter (step daughter chose to break connections and go back to her mom, for far too many reasons to list here) regarding both grandfathers. One she knows very well the other only vaguely but we still have been honest with her regarding their health. The 4 yr old we simply tell him that they are sick he has been fortunate in that he has not yet experienced a death of a human family member. I am not sure how much of our dog's death he actually understood or that of his goldfish. It is uncomfortable and a hard task to tell one's children that someone that they love and care for will not always be around but it is an unfortunate part of life.

I do wish I had been competent enough at the time to at least look at both moms and use their own philosophy on them, they both had the same saying they shared with their children. "Honest is the best policy."


Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/

"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."

Rachel Carson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-We lost them both within months of each other. We thought we were
doing the right thing but a lie by omission is still a lie and it
broke their trust in us. -=-

I don't agree that failing to tell someone everyone one knows is "a
lie by omission."

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 4/4/2009 6:33 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> I don't agree that failing to tell someone everyone one knows is "a
> lie by omission."
>
>

Typo in that sentence- should have been "

I don't agree that failing to tell someone everything one knows is "a
lie by omission."

I agree. I'm kind of surprised that the daughter considered it lying - tells me that honesty has been some kind of an issue for her before, too, maybe? My kids would have thought it made sense for me to honor the wishes of my own dying mother, I think.
And, even if they wished they'd been told sooner, they would have understood why I didn't tell them and it they wouldn't generalize it to then suspect me of lying in the future. They'd understand that was a unique situation.

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-should have been "I don't agree that failing to tell someone
everything one knows is "a
lie by omission."

Thanks, Pam. Sorry to have written garble.

-=-I agree. I'm kind of surprised that the daughter considered it
lying - tells me that honesty has been some kind of an issue for her
before, too, maybe? My kids would have thought it made sense for me to
honor the wishes of my own dying mother, I think.=-

If the mom/grandmother had a good reason, I'd explain the good reason.
Not "because she was the mom."

I do know some people don't want young children to see them in really
bad shape, and that's understandable. It's also a good reason.

For me the crux of the question is the why, not the what.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tammy Curry

I will admit at that time there were other things that were going on as well, they played a part in her outlook. Other mistakes my husband and I made that did not help that particular situation.



Tammy Curry, Director of Chaos
http://tammycurry.blogspot.com/
http://crazy-homeschool-adventures.blogspot.com/

"If a child is to keep alive his inborn sense of wonder, he needs the companionship of at least one adult who can share it, rediscovering with him the joy, excitement and mystery of the world we live in."

Rachel Carson





________________________________
From: Pam Sorooshian <pamsoroosh@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, April 4, 2009 9:43:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Another Question about Honesty




On 4/4/2009 6:33 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> I don't agree that failing to tell someone everyone one knows is "a
> lie by omission."
>
>

Typo in that sentence- should have been "

I don't agree that failing to tell someone everything one knows is "a
lie by omission."

I agree. I'm kind of surprised that the daughter considered it lying - tells me that honesty has been some kind of an issue for her before, too, maybe? My kids would have thought it made sense for me to honor the wishes of my own dying mother, I think.
And, even if they wished they'd been told sooner, they would have understood why I didn't tell them and it they wouldn't generalize it to then suspect me of lying in the future. They'd understand that was a unique situation.

-pam







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pam Sorooshian

On 4/4/2009 6:48 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> My kids would have thought it made sense for me to
> honor the wishes of my own dying mother, I think.=-
>
> If the mom/grandmother had a good reason, I'd explain the good reason.
> Not "because she was the mom."
>

Right. I meant "my own" as in my actual own mom. My kids would have
understood her asking that. She would have wanted the same thing, I
think - not to have the grandkids know it was terminal until she was
pretty far incapacitated - because she'd have wanted to have her usual
fantastic relationship with them as long as possible without it being
tainted by fear and sadness.

She had no chance to ask that because she died when very healthy, with
no prior symptoms of any kind. So I'm just guessing - not basing it on
experience - but I can easily imagine the scenario in which she would
have asked my sisters and I not to tell the kids for a while.

-pam

kelly_sturman

> I don't agree that failing to tell someone everything one knows is "a
> lie by omission."
>
> I agree. I'm kind of surprised that the daughter considered it lying -
> tells me that honesty has been some kind of an issue for her before,
> too, maybe?

We've got two people with similar situations, but I am the original
poster, and I can tell you that what made it (feel like?) a lie is
that the kids were told about the original illness, and then, when
the cancer had gone into remission, were told by their grandparents
that grandma was better. Then, when the cancer recurred, mother-
in-law told us not to tell the kids. And the kids would every so often
say things along the lines of, "I'm so glad Grandma's cancer didn't come
back." My silence in the face of statements like that was a lie. Or,
it really feels like one, anyway. To me and to DD.

As for the reasoning... The prognosis was poor--only 5% of
patients survive five years--but mother-in-law is an optimist and
believes in the power of positive thinking and is into living in the now
and did not want the now to always be darkened by the cloud of the
future. She wanted to believe she'd live the full five years, and
five years is an eternity for a child, so why let a child worry for
practically an eternity, about something the child cannot change?
So, two reasons. She did not want to live out her last years being
pitied and fretted over, and she did not want her grandchildren
to spend a good portion of their childhoods fretting about a
sad reality they could do nothing about.

I thought those were good reasons, until MIL took a turn
for the worse and the prognosis worsened to the point that
I knew that our recent visit to her home might very well be
the last time the kids saw her. (I was wrong; she's hanging
in there and will actually be coming to our home for a few days
next week), but at the time, my feeling was, "This is precious
time, and they have a right to know it." So the fact that
MIL had a crisis that forced a revelation was a relief to me.

> And, even if they wished they'd been told sooner, they would have
> understood why I didn't tell them

They did understand, but understanding and agreement are not
the same thing, and DD did not agree with my decision to with-
hold that information from her.

> they wouldn't generalize it to then suspect me of lying in the future.

Perhaps I am being self-defensive here, but I really don't think she
was suspicious. I think she just wanted to be *very* clear to me that
she wants the truth from me, no matter what. I messed up and
she was calling me on it, saying, in effect, "Let's not have you make
this mistake again."

> They'd understand that was a unique situation.

But, it's not a unique situation. Death is a universal. I do believe
children would fear it less if adults feared it less, and were less
secretive about it. My kids weren't *overly* sad during the six
months from the initial diagnosis until the remission; they were
sad and they channeled that into enjoying every moment they
got to spend with their grandmother. Looking at that truth:
they could've handled the knowledge that the cancer had come
back and that Grandma might be around for Bar Mitzvah, but
definitely would not be attending their weddings or welcoming
*their* children into the world.

This was a case of letting fear dictate choice.

I *try* to practice mindfulness. I guess it's true what
Yoda says...

Anyway, DH bought a bottle of very high quality
champagne for when his parents come to visit.
His mother has said that one thing she has always
wanted to do, but has never done, is to taste Dom
Perignon. DH went out and bought something
better than that for her. We will celebrate the time
we have, and the children will share in the knowledge
that the time is very precious.

Kelly Sturman

Robyn L. Coburn

> His mother has said that one thing she has always
> wanted to do, but has never done, is to taste Dom
> Perignon. DH went out and bought something
> better than that for her. We will celebrate the time
> we have, and the children will share in the knowledge
> that the time is very precious.>>>

Kelly, I'm so sorry your family is going through this, and the champagne
idea sounds like a lovely thing to do.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com

Ren Allen

~~But, it's not a unique situation. Death is a universal. I do believe
children would fear it less if adults feared it less, and were less
secretive about it.~~

I just wanted to let you know I completely and totally agree with you. The worst damage and stress I've seen is when information is withheld from a child (I'm not talking minor details, but information about disease/death etc...) when there are life impacting situations evolving in a family.

Adults ASSUME the whole "fear and sadness hanging over a child" but in my experience children handle tough situations much better than adults! My dd Sierra used to sit with her Grandma and tell her stories and rub her back each night. My mother's illness was an opportunity for her to bond in an even deeper manner.

My mother didn't hide things, she didn't exaggerate them either. Her cancer was a simple fact of life and that's how we faced it.

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

k

>>>> Adults ASSUME the whole "fear and sadness hanging over a child" but in
my experience children handle tough situations much better than adults! My
dd Sierra used to sit with her Grandma and tell her stories and rub her back
each night. My mother's illness was an opportunity for her to bond in an
even deeper manner. <<<<

I welcomed it myself, and my grandmother was way better about sharing her
last days than my parents were. Of course I was 16, and I think that was
the right age for me because I didn't handle death well at all when I was
younger (usually I was completely baffled and overwhelmed by it). I think
the big reason is my grandmother really matters/ed to me... she herself. I
wanted to be part of easing her passing (if I could) and I stepped up to the
task of staying with her in the last few months. Wouldn't have wanted to
miss that chance for the world. I got to know her so much more. And I have
that still today. Hey my parents could have denied me that and I'm glad
they didn't. It was a formative (pivotal) experience for me.

~Katherine


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Robyn L. Coburn

Some of you have heard this story before, but it may be new to others...

By the time my daughter Jayn was five, she had experienced the deaths of
three family members. My father-in-law had died about three years prior, his
young wife unexpectedly 18 months later, and finally my mother, called Nan,
the following January after a cancer diagnosis. Of all of these, my mother
is the person with whom Jayn had the closest relationship.

When Grandpa Jim died I was surprised by Jayn's absolute conviction that,
even though he had gone for ever, he "still loved her". Over the years she
would sometimes inform us out of the blue that she was sad that Grandpa Jim
was dead, but glad that he still loved her. When Grandma Paula died, she
maintained the same belief. This was despite a total lack of evidence of
love from Paula's behavior in life.

When Nan became ill, Jayn, slightly older, was able to articulate her
spiritual beliefs to me in greater detail. I told Jayn truthfully that Nan
was very sick, but that we were going to visit her at Christmas. Jayn asked
if Nan would die, and was temporarily confused about when, concerned that
"soon" meant immediately. She had a big cry, and told me repeatedly that she
would be very sad.

In the time leading up to our last Christmas with Nan, Jayn expressed her
idea that a person's spirit would leave their body and go into "our
hearts" - the hearts of the people who loved them - so that we could still
love and remember them, and they would still love us.

Jayn prepared a special joyful dance to be her Yuletide gift to Nan, who had
been a professional dancer and singer all her life. She practiced
diligently, and had planned to do it, in a costume, on Christmas morning.

However when we arrived at the house after a cross country drive, a week
before Christmas, Jayn took one look at Nan reclining in bed, then went out
and immediately took off her skirt and shoes, so that she was wearing only
her pink tights and perfectly matching top. She then asked me to put on her
chosen music and announced that she would do her dance right now. After a
few minutes getting organized, Jayn danced, adapting her exuberance to the
limited space in the bedroom. The appreciative audience was Nan, Grandpa,
one of Nan's dearest friends, Daddy and me.

Somehow, in those first few moments, Jayn knew that my mother would not be
leaving her bed again - not for any meals or to be able to watch the dance
in the living room as planned. Somehow she knew that Nan was slipping away.
In the week that followed, the decline was so swift that she would not have
even registered Jayn's presence, had we waited until December 25th. Somehow
Jayn understood before any of the adults there, that this was the last
chance she would have to give this gift to my mother, and to the rest of us.

Some time later my step father asked me to disperse my mother's ashes in the
Pacific Ocean, as per her request. He sent us the remarkably heavy container
and James, Jayn and I went on a road trip to the coast north of Santa
Barbara, near a little town called Cambria which is precisely the kind of
sweet, pretty little artist's colony that Mum had always yearned to live in.
We first visited a ceramic shop where Jayn chose a tiny handmade porcelain
vessel with cork to keep a portion of the ashes. (These now reside in our
house in the excellent company of a bit of James Coburn and a bit of Hannah
Jenner.) It was very important to Jayn to keep a bit.

We went to the chosen secluded beach. While we were opening the container we
were joined by a large black crow, who watched us most intently. We threw
the ashes out over the water and into the waves as they rushed onto the
sand, filming for Grandpa's sake. The ashes were very black and crystalline.
The sea took the last of them, and then the crow gave a loud squawk and flew
off. This captured Jayn's imagination at the time and seemed very fitting
somehow (although I daresay in reality it was a crow used to the idea that
people often had food with them, but then we didn't). Still the emotional
moment was enhanced by the avian witness.

Jayn has no problem holding in her mind the idea that Nan is both in her
heart and in our house and travelling the ocean visiting all the places she
loved - Australia, Hong Kong, here, even Galveston (not that she loved it
there), Tahiti, Fiji. Every now and then she says she misses her, and I tell
her that I know Nan would have been so proud of Jayn's different doings and
achievements and would have loved to be part of them.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com

Pam Sorooshian

On 4/5/2009 6:18 AM, k wrote:
> my experience children handle tough situations much better than adults! My
> dd Sierra used to sit with her Grandma and tell her stories and rub her back
> each night. My mother's illness was an opportunity for her to bond in an
> even deeper manner.<<<<
>
What if grandma felt good, was still capable of carrying on normal life
had a prognosis that said she could live another five years, much of
that normally?

I'd honor my mom's wishes to hold off telling the kids - not until her
last days so that it came as a shock, but for a while. Give her the gift
of some more life without being thought of as a dying woman.

I mean - we ALL have a terminal condition - it is called life <G>. But
we don't sit the kids down and tell them, "Daddy and Mommy are gong to
die, probably sometime in the next 30 years." Five years is SUCH a long
time to kids.

If I had a terminal condition that wasn't going to impact me for as long
as five years, I'd want to hold off telling people until there was some
indication that the illness was taking over or something. I wouldn't
want to spend my last five years being treated like I was dying or with
my kids thinking about that whenever they were with me.

And, it would depend on the kid, I suppose. Rosie would live and
breathe it - it would wear her down and she'd be very very sad all the
time. I wouldn't want five years of her life to be spent that way. Roya
is resilient and optimistic and could carry on her own life. Roxana
would carry on, but would spend a whole lot of time feeling guilty that
she wasn't thinking about me every minute. I wouldn't want her to carry
that guilt.

-pam

Ren Allen

~~What if grandma felt good, was still capable of carrying on normal life had a prognosis that said she could live another five years, much of that normally?~~

I would still want my children to know. To hide it from them is not trusting them with what is real and what we are actually living with. My children knew my mother had cancer because she was open and honest about it all along. I'm really thankful that was always my family's way of dealing with difficult issues.

We talked about how she didn't want to be seen as a "dying person" and how we are all terminal. We talked about a lot of things openly, in a non-fearful, life-embracing manner. She was a grand example of how to live and how to die. I believe that my children were (and are) perfectly capable of navigating the journey of cancer with us.

I always think about how *I* would feel if someone kept a fact as big as a serious illness (terminal or not) from me. Someone I don't know well is one thing, but someone I trust and share a close relationship with? That would hurt. I think it hurts children too.

Things hidden for the sake of "protecting" someone often leave them feeling hurt and/or bewildered when they find out how long they were kept in the dark. I wouldn't want to be a part of that type of behavior. My family and I have navigated difficult passages more than once, we'll keep doing it together....open and honest.

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

Ren Allen

OH, and I meant to add that my mother was originally diagnosed with cancer in the year 1989 and in spite of treatment and a mastectomy, lived a relatively healthy and active life up until her death in 2002. My children always knew what was going on and accepted it readily. With sadness yes....but it was just another part of our lives too.

Ren
radicalunschooling.blogspot.com

Pam Sorooshian

On 4/5/2009 10:11 PM, Ren Allen wrote:
> Things hidden for the sake of "protecting" someone often leave them feeling hurt and/or bewildered when they find out how long they were kept in the dark

I agree with that. I hadn't thought of doing it to protect the children
- that would not be a good idea, I agree. I'd thought of it as my mom
wanting the protection from immediate change in how her grandkids
interacted with her. More like giving her the gift of some time.

I had the experience of my brother-in-law dying from leukemia. He had a
very early diagnosis of a "good" kind of leukemia and had a perfect bone
marrow donor available, if needed. He had a very high chance of
survival, but he died, anyway. We didn't keep any secrets about any of
it, but that was his choice.

In the absence of a direct request from the person who is dying, it
wouldn't occur to me to keep a secret. I'm just saying that I can
imagine a situation where I would delay telling them for a while, given
a direct request from the person in question. I don't know - maybe I
wouldn't feel that way if this really came up - that's the problem with
dealing in hypotheticals. I'm just not going to judge someone else as
wrong who did make that decision because I can imagine how it could be
my choice, given certain circumstances.

-pam

Joyce Fetteroll

On Apr 4, 2009, at 10:34 PM, kelly_sturman wrote:

> His mother has said that one thing she has always
> wanted to do, but has never done, is to taste Dom
> Perignon. DH went out and bought something
> better than that for her.

I'm thinking you may want to buy the Dom Perignon. That's the famous
one, the one that's in loads of movies. Unless you know differently,
she didn't ask for the best champagne but Dom Perignon. And with the
better one there too, she can have a taste test :-) To put it in
perspective, it's expensive, but as a final request, cheaper than a
trip around the world.

Joyce

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Things hidden for the sake of "protecting" someone often leave them
feeling hurt and/or bewildered when they find out how long they were
kept in the dark. I wouldn't want to be a part of that type of
behavior. My family and I have navigated difficult passages more than
once, we'll keep doing it together....open and honest.-=-

My own objection wasn't about knowing or not knowing. It was about a
mother wanting to tell her own children, but feeling unable to make
the decision because HER mother had told her not to.

My friend Beau has medical problems, and is getting married this
summer after living with her significant other since before I even
knew Keith. They've been together 35 years, and are getting married.

This might be because Beau is dying. It might not be. Beau doesn't
have to tell me she thinks she's dying if she doesn't want to. The
fact that I've had this thought makes me want to be extra sweet to her
just in case. She could be dead of a car accident as I write this; I
don't know for sure.

It makes me a better person to be nicer to Beau. It's an investment
in my friendship and in my future peace of mind, and my memories of a
longtime friendship. She was my maid of honor, 25 years ago. I am
most definitely going to that wedding.

How else might we act if people in our lives were dying? Why not just
do it?

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-In the absence of a direct request from the person who is dying, it
wouldn't occur to me to keep a secret. I'm just saying that I can
imagine a situation where I would delay telling them for a while, given
a direct request from the person in question. I don't know - maybe I
wouldn't feel that way if this really came up - that's the problem with
dealing in hypotheticals. I'm just not going to judge someone else as
wrong who did make that decision because I can imagine how it could be
my choice, given certain circumstances.-=-

It could be your preference or your request, if you were dying, that
others not share that fact.
But can it really, fairly be your "choice"?

And if someone else told me "Tell your kids I'm dying," I might choose
NOT to honor that "choice" or request, if I didn't think it was going
to be beneficial to my kids to know that.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=- There's nothing to be gained keeping important stuff secret from
people we're close to.-=-

Sometimes there is, but it should be the choice of those with the
information.

I attended my dad's funeral not with my new boyfriend, but with my not-
yet-divorced first husband, who knew my dad, whom my dad had liked.
(My dad wouldn't have liked him if he'd known as much as I know now,
but that was then.)

We didn't use the occasion of a funeral, burial and gathering later to
let my grandmother know we were separated. I wore his suit coat
because it was cold. I introduced him to people he hadn't met. I
made sure he was comfortable. He comforted me.

We didn't lie, we didn't make stories of future plans. We withheld
information in those places on that day. People were there to say
goodbye to my daddy, and to tell me and my sister they were sorry, and
to comfort his widow and newly adopted son and daughter (her young
children).

-= Things hidden for the sake of "protecting" someone often leave them
feeling hurt and/or bewildered when they find out how long they were
kept in the dark.=-

There have been times people said "We didn't tell you the other day,
because you were already busy with [whatever it was]. " And when
people who love me decide to wait to tell me about a death or about an
impending problem I can't really personally fix right then, I take it
as love and compassion. I wasn't hurt or bewildered.

-= I wouldn't want to be a part of that type of behavior. My family
and I have navigated difficult passages more than once, we'll keep
doing it together....open and honest.-=-

There have been times I waited a few hours or a day to tell Keith
about a problem with one of the kids because he was stressed or sick
or injured himself.

I don't think any blanked rules about always telling or never telling
or letting grandparents make decisions for adult children are good. I
think in each instance of communication, the communicator should make
mindful, thoughtful choices personalized to the hearers and their
situations and abilities to understand or accept.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jessica

When I was younger, I didn't know what was "safe" to talk about re: health issues.. some members of my family felt it necessary to "protect" others from worry & I'm not sure what they thought they were accomplishing that way. When my mom had cancer in 1980 they were reluctant to tell my grandma about it, but eventually did tell her. She cried about it & said something along the lines of "of course you have to tell me!" There's nothing to be gained keeping important stuff secret from people we're close to.

When I was growing up, my dad had mental health issues & my parents weren't open about it. All I knew was for some reason he didn't feel good & we had to go home. Sometimes we were on an afternoon visit to friends, sometimes we were on a vacation. I remember one time, when I was in my 20s my parents came home early from a trip to Russia. Later on, I figured out what was going on, he had anxiety issues & probably issues w/depression as well. It was frustrating & confusing to me to ask him "what's the matter?" only to get "I don't feel good" without knowing what he MEANT by that... I even tried asking him to be more descriptive & never got anything more than "I just don't feel good" or "I need to be in my own bed" (or at home or something along those lines)...

With my guys, we've always been pretty open about what's going on with health issues & they saw a bit of illness and even death among our pets, as well as things that just happen...

Their dad has problems with depression & anxiety & they more or less understand what's going on because he never really hid it. We've had some rough times & I don't think it would have worked to hide what was going on from them. I think it might have been helpful if my parents had been open about what was going on with my dad... stuff like this is what kids can keep in their minds if they need it.

So rather than wondering "why daddy won't go places with us very often" & being annoyed about it (that's how I felt growing up), they more or less accept it & at first were annoyed by it but they're more used to it now. We're still trying to find something that works for him, so I don't have any answers/happy endings at this writing.

> I always think about how *I* would feel if someone kept a fact as big as a serious illness (terminal or not) from me. Someone I don't know well is one thing, but someone I trust and share a close relationship with? That would hurt. I think it hurts children too.
>
> Things hidden for the sake of "protecting" someone often leave them feeling hurt and/or bewildered when they find out how long they were kept in the dark. I wouldn't want to be a part of that type of behavior. My family and I have navigated difficult passages more than once, we'll keep doing it together....open and honest.

Cheers,
Jessica
(mom of 4 boys, 14, 14, 11 & 7)

Pam Sorooshian

On 4/6/2009 6:15 AM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> -=-In the absence of a direct request from the person who is dying, it
> wouldn't occur to me to keep a secret. I'm just saying that I can
> imagine a situation where I would delay telling them for a while, given
> a direct request from the person in question. I don't know - maybe I
> wouldn't feel that way if this really came up - that's the problem with
> dealing in hypotheticals. I'm just not going to judge someone else as
> wrong who did make that decision because I can imagine how it could be
> my choice, given certain circumstances.-=-
>
> It could be your preference or your request, if you were dying, that
> others not share that fact.
> But can it really, fairly be your "choice"?
>
It would be my choice to honor or not honor the request by my mother.
That's the choice I meant.
> And if someone else told me "Tell your kids I'm dying," I might choose
> NOT to honor that "choice" or request, if I didn't think it was going
> to be beneficial to my kids to know that.
>

Exactly.

So - if my mother asked, I can imagine that I might choose to honor her
request. I might not - depending on the situation, but all I've been
saying is that the original poster DID choose to honor that request and
now thinks it was a mistake. I'm saying I don't think it is necessarily
absolutely always going to be a mistake if someone does that. SHE is
sorry she did it. She says it broke the trust between her and her
daughter. I"m saying that I don't think this needs to be a hard and fast
rule. Circumstances matter. How the kid would react will matter. Roya
could handle it and be extra sweet and thoughtful and see them more than
usual. Rosie might subconsciously avoid the person in order to avoid the
pain of thinking about losing them. I don't know - which is my point. I
don't think one choice (to tell the kids immediately and thoroughly) is
always better than another (to delay telling them for a while).

-pam

Jessica

Good points, Sandra! They fit in the category of "there's a time & place for everything" and "being tactful"... no sense in telling someone something at a bad time. And there are even times when not telling is a good idea... is this good information for someone, weights & balances, blah blah blah, LOL!

> Sometimes there is, but it should be the choice of those with the
> information.

Jessica