socializing (not socialization)
kim meltzer
Hello there,
I am about to be homeschooling my daughter. We do right now, but she is
only four. My problem is: she is incredibly social and now that it's warmer
weather, the neighbors are in and out of their house all the time. As soon
as she sees anyone, she wants to run out and talk to them for ever, and
they're trying to do chores, have private family time, and she is seriously
wanting to go hang out ALL the time. I was telling a different neighbor
this, and I've mentioned it to some others (not in her hearing of course) so
everyone is saying, " of course you'll have to send her to school in the
Fall then." Well, I wasn't thinking that, but I am trying to help her
develop her inner resources so that she can learn to have fun by herself.
I think I was reading somewhere, perhaps, Hold on to your kids, that when
kids start trying to peer relate or intensely is when they need their
parents the most to help guide them and teach them new things. Can anyone
relate to this? Does anyone have any suggestions. I did try to get her
involved in some dramatic play (which she loves, where we act out stories
we've read), and then a sewing project (plastic sewing needle through felt
didn't work very easily) until she saw little brother on his bike and then
some neighborhood girls that she hadn't met yet and totally lost interest.
Also, most people that she meets aren't that friendly. Seriously. She is
four, and a lot of "older" kids just aren't interested in playing with
almost five year olds.
So, I guess my question is, should I be worried about her--that her social
needs aren't being met? Is she bored? Not learning enough new things?
Thanks for any advice,
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I am about to be homeschooling my daughter. We do right now, but she is
only four. My problem is: she is incredibly social and now that it's warmer
weather, the neighbors are in and out of their house all the time. As soon
as she sees anyone, she wants to run out and talk to them for ever, and
they're trying to do chores, have private family time, and she is seriously
wanting to go hang out ALL the time. I was telling a different neighbor
this, and I've mentioned it to some others (not in her hearing of course) so
everyone is saying, " of course you'll have to send her to school in the
Fall then." Well, I wasn't thinking that, but I am trying to help her
develop her inner resources so that she can learn to have fun by herself.
I think I was reading somewhere, perhaps, Hold on to your kids, that when
kids start trying to peer relate or intensely is when they need their
parents the most to help guide them and teach them new things. Can anyone
relate to this? Does anyone have any suggestions. I did try to get her
involved in some dramatic play (which she loves, where we act out stories
we've read), and then a sewing project (plastic sewing needle through felt
didn't work very easily) until she saw little brother on his bike and then
some neighborhood girls that she hadn't met yet and totally lost interest.
Also, most people that she meets aren't that friendly. Seriously. She is
four, and a lot of "older" kids just aren't interested in playing with
almost five year olds.
So, I guess my question is, should I be worried about her--that her social
needs aren't being met? Is she bored? Not learning enough new things?
Thanks for any advice,
Kim
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Sorooshian
On 3/8/2009 6:44 PM, kim meltzer wrote:
They don't have to be radical unschoolers - just willing to be nice and
respectful about unschooling. If your state has a list or website,
that's a good place to find local people. You might decide to organize
your own group. Try to find or organize a group that is very informal -
not a coop, but a playgroup.
Make a lot of play dates for her. Go to the library during school hours
- that's a good place to run into other homeschoolers. Homeschoolers DO
have a lot more hanging around time. My daughters have always been lucky
enough to have other unschooled kids to hang out with. Rosie has a
couple of unschooled friends she can't remember not knowing - they met
when she was 4 years old.
If you live in a place where it just really isn't possible to meet up
with other unschoolers or reasonably relaxed homeschoolers, you can
focus more on groups that have similar interests or groups focused on
social opportunities. That could be 4-H, Girl Scouts, Campfire Girls and
Boys, or sports, dance, theatrical productions, etc.
Some kids don't want to do anything organized, but others eat it up!
You're going to have to think about your own child to figure out what
will work well for her.
-pam
> Also, most people that she meets aren't that friendly. Seriously. She isSounds like she might enjoy being a part of a good homeschooling group.
> four, and a lot of "older" kids just aren't interested in playing with
> almost five year olds.
>
> So, I guess my question is, should I be worried about her--that her social
> needs aren't being met? Is she bored? Not learning enough new things?
>
>
They don't have to be radical unschoolers - just willing to be nice and
respectful about unschooling. If your state has a list or website,
that's a good place to find local people. You might decide to organize
your own group. Try to find or organize a group that is very informal -
not a coop, but a playgroup.
Make a lot of play dates for her. Go to the library during school hours
- that's a good place to run into other homeschoolers. Homeschoolers DO
have a lot more hanging around time. My daughters have always been lucky
enough to have other unschooled kids to hang out with. Rosie has a
couple of unschooled friends she can't remember not knowing - they met
when she was 4 years old.
If you live in a place where it just really isn't possible to meet up
with other unschoolers or reasonably relaxed homeschoolers, you can
focus more on groups that have similar interests or groups focused on
social opportunities. That could be 4-H, Girl Scouts, Campfire Girls and
Boys, or sports, dance, theatrical productions, etc.
Some kids don't want to do anything organized, but others eat it up!
You're going to have to think about your own child to figure out what
will work well for her.
-pam
Joyce Fetteroll
On Mar 8, 2009, at 9:44 PM, kim meltzer wrote:
she can do with you or on her own, but I'd seriously let go of trying
to help her change. She is a social person. She needs it like she
needs water. By focusing on getting her to have fun by herself in
essence you'd be dehydrating her.
conversations. I'm an introvert so not the best one for social ideas
but I bet others do :-)
She wants to be friendly. She just doesn't know how. You can't teach
her but you can give her pointers and help. She'll internalize it as
she's able.
But I would definitely get her out with other kids more.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am trying to help herI would let go of that idea. I wouldn't give up offering ideas that
> develop her inner resources so that she can learn to have fun by
> herself.
she can do with you or on her own, but I'd seriously let go of trying
to help her change. She is a social person. She needs it like she
needs water. By focusing on getting her to have fun by herself in
essence you'd be dehydrating her.
> think I was reading somewhere, perhaps, Hold on to your kids, thatHelp her be a better neighbor. Help her say hello and have short
> when
> kids start trying to peer relate or intensely is when they need their
> parents the most to help guide them and teach them new things. Can
> anyone
> relate to this? Does anyone have any suggestions.
>
conversations. I'm an introvert so not the best one for social ideas
but I bet others do :-)
She wants to be friendly. She just doesn't know how. You can't teach
her but you can give her pointers and help. She'll internalize it as
she's able.
But I would definitely get her out with other kids more.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
> Also, most people that she meets aren't that friendly. Seriously. She isI suggest finding some local inclusive homeschooling groups that have
> four, and a lot of "older" kids just aren't interested in playing with
> almost five year olds.
>
> So, I guess my question is, should I be worried about her--that her social
> needs aren't being met?>>>>
regular park days for unstructured play (rather than focussing on academic
classes as do some groups). Not only will she find other children of a wide
range of ages that will play group games all together, you won't have anyone
suggesting that she should be put in school for social reasons.
At these homeschool groups you will find individual friends for her for
playdates, including possibly some slightly older girls who could be willing
to come over sometimes and play with her, and you will learn about other
social and learning events. For example the dance class that my daughter has
made the center of her life since she was three was originally found through
my local homeschool park day group. Other moms continue to organize events,
outings, and train trips to other towns.
Jayn now 9 currently plays most often with a five year old, the two year old
across the courtyard, our neighbors who are almost six and just eight, two
sisters who are eight and ten, and another family who are two, five, nine
and twelve. All of these children are homeschooled except for the two year
old. She loves playing with little kids, as do many of the other kids she
knows from homeschooling groups and unschooling conferences.
<<<then a sewing project (plastic sewing needle through felt
> didn't work very easily) until she saw little brother on his bike and thenPlease don't push or try to force crafts on your daughter against her will
> some neighborhood girls that she hadn't met yet and totally lost
> interest.>>>>
or inclination, or be offended when interacting with other kids looks more
interesting. Some kids just love crafting more than others, and timing is
also everything.
The artistry of children is a subject very close to my heart. I tend to feel
dubious about kit crafts that seem like adult initiated pointless busy work,
as compared to making something that the kids want to make or have for
reasons of their own. Children need real quality art supplies and useful to
them materials (which can include felt or cardboard boxes or styrofoam
packaging or duct tape) for free exploration and to be supported in forming
their own goals and project plans. I find that Jayn comes and goes with her
manufacturing activities - but she always comes back to them because she is
making things that are important to *her*. At the moment she is making bead
and gold wire earrings to sell online and at craft fairs, and helping me
develop projects and ideas for my latest couple of writing projects about
crafting.
Another suggestion is to start doing some stuff in the yard like starting a
vegie or flower garden, or a mud patch, together that might welcome some of
the other neighborhood kids in to play and join in.
<<<<I am trying to help her
> develop her inner resources so that she can learn to have fun by herself.Whatever her temperament is, and it may be that she is extrovert and highly
> >>>>
social, unschooling allows you to honor and celebrate it, instead of trying
to change it. Unschooling is about living in the real world, not isolating
from it - at least not all the time.
When Jayn was this age "fun by herself" consisted of fantasy doll play and
water exploration on a ladder by the sink for relatively brief periods like
40 minutes within my hearing. The vast majority of her time was spent
interacting with me. Even when playing with friends, she wanted me nearby.
Unschoolers usually put their relationships with their children as their
first priority. Does your dd want to be by herself more? It seems not from
what you have reported. Or is it really that you want to occupy herself and
so you can get other stuff accomplished? The time our children really want
from us can be so much more than we could have imagined before they came in
to our lives. I am constantly in awe of the level of time and energy, both
emotional and physical, that unschooling parents are willing to invest in
their children's happiness and activities.
<<<<they need their
> parents the most to help guide them and teach them new things.>>>When you have read a more about unschooling, you will learn that these are
two very different actions. Try www.sandradodd.com/unschooling .
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
k
Karl went through a lot on the social scene similar to what you've written
about your daughter. He still walks up to perfect strangers and is very
comfortable starting conversations... of the 5 year old variety.
He has noticed many times that people aren't interested. And been
disappointed about it. He's even dealt with kids who were in school and
though they are now homeschoolers, they actually were unfriendly and harsh
at times, partly I suspect because they're very much of the school age
segregation mindset, as well as Karl is simply at different developmental
stages than they are, and the things Karl wants to do are not the things
they want to do.
It was hard for him sometimes. He asked me about it at one point and I
mentioned that sometimes in order to get along with others, it helps to just
join what they're doing rather than to try to convince others of his play
idea... that anything different --no matter how *good* the idea is--
interrupts what they're already busy with. He figured out more about that
as he continued getting together with others, and he seems to have fun
joining without having an agenda sometimes. He's figured out more about
when to introduce a new play idea.
I've enjoyed watching him changing tactics and interacting with others.
Because he was sometimes struggling pretty hard, I made it a point to stick
close and help with distractions if the kids got in each other's hair. It's
a lot of fun and I learn things *I* don't know. :) I was always very shy
in school, and it's interesting watching someone who is much more outgoing
up close. Karl is different and watching how others develop social skills
is totally fascinating to me. I know some things about people that a 5 year
old doesn't have the experience to know yet, and I'm also learning a lot. I
think it's great that we can learn so many things together.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
about your daughter. He still walks up to perfect strangers and is very
comfortable starting conversations... of the 5 year old variety.
He has noticed many times that people aren't interested. And been
disappointed about it. He's even dealt with kids who were in school and
though they are now homeschoolers, they actually were unfriendly and harsh
at times, partly I suspect because they're very much of the school age
segregation mindset, as well as Karl is simply at different developmental
stages than they are, and the things Karl wants to do are not the things
they want to do.
It was hard for him sometimes. He asked me about it at one point and I
mentioned that sometimes in order to get along with others, it helps to just
join what they're doing rather than to try to convince others of his play
idea... that anything different --no matter how *good* the idea is--
interrupts what they're already busy with. He figured out more about that
as he continued getting together with others, and he seems to have fun
joining without having an agenda sometimes. He's figured out more about
when to introduce a new play idea.
I've enjoyed watching him changing tactics and interacting with others.
Because he was sometimes struggling pretty hard, I made it a point to stick
close and help with distractions if the kids got in each other's hair. It's
a lot of fun and I learn things *I* don't know. :) I was always very shy
in school, and it's interesting watching someone who is much more outgoing
up close. Karl is different and watching how others develop social skills
is totally fascinating to me. I know some things about people that a 5 year
old doesn't have the experience to know yet, and I'm also learning a lot. I
think it's great that we can learn so many things together.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>> He asked me about it at one point and I mentioned that sometimes inorder to get along with others, it helps to just join what they're doing
rather than to try to convince others of his play idea... that anything
different --no matter how *good* the idea is-- interrupts what they're
already busy with. <<<<
Oh. And it might help at some point if your daughter should seem to wonder
about people's disinterest or to struggle with it, that sometimes having a
conversation is hard when others have something else that's worrying them or
taking up their attention elsewhere, and that's sometimes why they don't
talk with you much.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kim meltzer
Hello,
Thanks for everyone's responses. The problem that I am facing is that there
aren't really any homeschool group things going on where I can get her out.
There are twelve homeschooling groups in my neighborhood, but things are
moving very slowly in the social networking department. I started a
neighborhood listserv to try and help things along, but so far, it's been
almost six months and I've only met one family. Another group meets during
my son's nap time. So I guess it will be some time before we can get some
time.
Kim
Thanks for everyone's responses. The problem that I am facing is that there
aren't really any homeschool group things going on where I can get her out.
There are twelve homeschooling groups in my neighborhood, but things are
moving very slowly in the social networking department. I started a
neighborhood listserv to try and help things along, but so far, it's been
almost six months and I've only met one family. Another group meets during
my son's nap time. So I guess it will be some time before we can get some
time.
Kim
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:53 AM, k <katherand@...> wrote:
> >>>> He asked me about it at one point and I mentioned that sometimes in
> order to get along with others, it helps to just join what they're doing
> rather than to try to convince others of his play idea... that anything
> different --no matter how *good* the idea is-- interrupts what they're
> already busy with. <<<<
>
> Oh. And it might help at some point if your daughter should seem to wonder
> about people's disinterest or to struggle with it, that sometimes having a
> conversation is hard when others have something else that's worrying them
> or
> taking up their attention elsewhere, and that's sometimes why they don't
> talk with you much.
>
> ~Katherine
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kim meltzer
There are twelve homeschooling groups in my neighborhood,
I meant to say families.
I met them once at a meet and greet, but so far, nothing since then.
Kim
I meant to say families.
I met them once at a meet and greet, but so far, nothing since then.
Kim
On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 10:23 AM, kim meltzer <kimcronin.meltzer@...>wrote:
> Hello,
> Thanks for everyone's responses. The problem that I am facing is that
> there aren't really any homeschool group things going on where I can get her
> out. There are twelve homeschooling groups in my neighborhood, but things
> are moving very slowly in the social networking department. I started a
> neighborhood listserv to try and help things along, but so far, it's been
> almost six months and I've only met one family. Another group meets during
> my son's nap time. So I guess it will be some time before we can get some
> time.
> Kim
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 8:53 AM, k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
>> >>>> He asked me about it at one point and I mentioned that sometimes
>> in
>> order to get along with others, it helps to just join what they're doing
>> rather than to try to convince others of his play idea... that anything
>> different --no matter how *good* the idea is-- interrupts what they're
>> already busy with. <<<<
>>
>> Oh. And it might help at some point if your daughter should seem to wonder
>> about people's disinterest or to struggle with it, that sometimes having a
>> conversation is hard when others have something else that's worrying them
>> or
>> taking up their attention elsewhere, and that's sometimes why they don't
>> talk with you much.
>>
>> ~Katherine
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], kim meltzer <kimcronin.meltzer@...> wrote:
How about storytime at the library? We go less often now, but with my two older kids we went every week. Even just going to the library provides many socail opportunities.
And following her interests, look into classes offered in your community. My kids do dance, gymnastics, and karate right now ... they have enjoyed playing on the little league t-ball and soccer teams ... lots of social opportunities.
Cathy
> So, I guess my question is, should I be worried about her--that her socialDo you think that school would actually provide these things? I am not sure how much socializing kids get to do in school, some short recesses, lunch. Do kids get bored in school? I think that most kids are bored in school. Do they learn loads of new and interesting things in school? Maybe not.
> needs aren't being met? Is she bored? Not learning enough new things?
>
How about storytime at the library? We go less often now, but with my two older kids we went every week. Even just going to the library provides many socail opportunities.
And following her interests, look into classes offered in your community. My kids do dance, gymnastics, and karate right now ... they have enjoyed playing on the little league t-ball and soccer teams ... lots of social opportunities.
Cathy
Robyn L. Coburn
I was a bit startled about 12 "groups" until you sent in your correction. 12
families sounds like a lot to meet once a week at a park. Regularity
promotes friendships. My friend who started a now thriving park day did it
by relentlessly turning up at the park at the same time every week rain or
shine, winter or summer, regardless of who else or how many others promised
to be there. Now the whole big group goes to dinner after every long park
day. It took close to two years, and she did not rely only on an online
presence to network.
I guess that if there weren't enough opportunities local to me, I would be
travelling. I do in fact - Jayn has friends who live 30 miles away in two
directions. My favorite park day is 25 miles away (not that I do that every
week, but I would have if there had not been 5 other local opportunities).
Now Jayn's dance class and the park day following are the anchor of our
week.
Are you being rigid about your son's nap time? Could he sleep in the car
seat or on a blanket at the park if he is too big for a sling? I guess the
good news there is that naps get less important and shorter as children age.
Someone suggested the library. Ours have book clubs but my dd is not
interested yet - others younger than her have been.
I think in your situation I would be at the playground every day where there
are other younger-than-school-age kids, even if they are accompanied by
nannies instead of parents.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
families sounds like a lot to meet once a week at a park. Regularity
promotes friendships. My friend who started a now thriving park day did it
by relentlessly turning up at the park at the same time every week rain or
shine, winter or summer, regardless of who else or how many others promised
to be there. Now the whole big group goes to dinner after every long park
day. It took close to two years, and she did not rely only on an online
presence to network.
I guess that if there weren't enough opportunities local to me, I would be
travelling. I do in fact - Jayn has friends who live 30 miles away in two
directions. My favorite park day is 25 miles away (not that I do that every
week, but I would have if there had not been 5 other local opportunities).
Now Jayn's dance class and the park day following are the anchor of our
week.
Are you being rigid about your son's nap time? Could he sleep in the car
seat or on a blanket at the park if he is too big for a sling? I guess the
good news there is that naps get less important and shorter as children age.
Someone suggested the library. Ours have book clubs but my dd is not
interested yet - others younger than her have been.
I think in your situation I would be at the playground every day where there
are other younger-than-school-age kids, even if they are accompanied by
nannies instead of parents.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
www.allthingsdoll.blogspot.com
k
>>>> How about storytime at the library? We go less often now, but with mytwo older kids we went every week. Even just going to the library provides
many socail opportunities. <<<<
Yes. When we lived in TN with a great homeschool group we seldom went
because of my school and/or work schedule. The library though! We lived in
town and went almost everyday. Karl loved it. It was always busy with many
kids to play with and all the personnel knew Karl on a first name basis.
Very welcoming bunch of people. That was our primary social outlet for a
long time.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>> Someone suggested the library. Ours have book clubs but my dd is notinterested yet - others younger than her have been. <<<<
Karl had zero interest in books (now he's more interested). The library was
for playing with the train set and at the lego area and the puppets and all
puzzles.... and the computers. There's way more than books at many
libraries these days.
Try several. If you're like Karl, you'll prefer the bigger libraries. One
in SC where we live now has music listening stations. He's all over that.
Also, try children's museums. There's so much to do at a place like that.
It takes hours for Karl to get around to all the things he can play with and
he just eats it up.
If there's a shortage of kids to play with, *I* play with Karl. :) It's
one of the blessings of being a parent: you get to be a kid again.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Verna
> Also, most people that she meets aren't that friendly. Seriously. She isyour description sounds somewhat like my now 7 year old when he was 3 or 4. we went to the park and library ALOT. i asked kids over and we went to the play thing at burger king when it was too cold for the park.
> four, and a lot of "older" kids just aren't interested in playing with
> almost five year olds.
>
> So, I guess my question is, should I be worried about her--that her social
> needs aren't being met? Is she bored? Not learning enough new things?
>
> Thanks for any advice,
> Kim
>
Verna
--- In [email protected], kim meltzer <kimcronin.meltzer@...> wrote:
>when my son found someone he liked to play with at the park or at a story time, I struck up a conversation with the mom and if they seemed nice I got phone numbers. gave the people a call and met at the park. it didnt come natural for me but most were happy to meet people too. i didnt worry if they were homeschoolers. just kids he liked and seemed to play well with.
> There are twelve homeschooling groups in my neighborhood,
> I meant to say families.
> I met them once at a meet and greet, but so far, nothing since then.
> Kim
>