DaBreeze21

Hello--

I just had a play date with a friend and her 2 children - daughter, 2
yo, and son about 8 months. My daughter is 2 1/2.

I recently posted about my daughter's current love of Dora. So of
course it was on this morning when our friends arrived. And we have a
BIG, HD TV so it is very attention grabbing!

My friend wanted to turn it off. I talked to Marisol about it and
turned it off and it led to a big emotional reaction, which I was not
surprised about. I felt bad turning it off, but I also wanted to
respect my friends wishes. We ended up compromising and I put Dora on
our laptop where Marisol (and the other little girl) could see it.
Marisol nursed for a little bit and calmed down and was happy the rest
of the play date.

However, I know that the mom would have liked even the computer to be
off. She commented that she has noticed that her daughter is really
cranky after watching.... AND that the longer she watches the crankier
she is when it gets turned off. My thoughts were that is because she
is never allowed to watch (they don't even own a TV - just a computer)
and that she really likes it so when she IS allowed she wants more. I
didn't say that though.

The awkward part was that the entire time we spent trying to entice
the little girl away from Dora -- with other toys, music, dancing,
building, etc. She was always drawn back. Marisol joined in with us
several times of her own volition.

Overall, even with the awkwardness the play date was really enjoyable.
I really enjoy talking with this friend. She knows that we differ on
this issue, I have talked a little bit about not limiting TV. I'm sure
that she thought it was a bit crazy how upset Marisol was to have it
turned off though, and that it "proved" what we were doing was wrong
(whereas in my mind she was reacting strongly because I wasn't
listening to her and I normally do). I wonder if I should limit our
play dates to her house because TV is not an issue there. Or should I
talk to my friend and just tell her that I'm not going to turn the TV
off, so if she would prefer not to come here that's ok??

Thanks for any input!

Susan

Sandra Dodd

-=-I wonder if I should limit our
play dates to her house because TV is not an issue there.=-

That sounds like a great idea.

Just because she's totally wrong doesn't mean she doesn't have the
right to hear opinion, and to have her house TV-free. What if she
were vegetarian? I bet you would have fun going to her house for a
special vegetarian meal, but she would have ZERO fun at your house
trying to enjoy cole slaw while others were having chicken and
pork'n'beans.

I think that as the girls get older the issue will fade.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Verna

> Overall, even with the awkwardness the play date was really enjoyable.
> I really enjoy talking with this friend. She knows that we differ on
> this issue, I have talked a little bit about not limiting TV. I'm sure
> that she thought it was a bit crazy how upset Marisol was to have it
> turned off though, and that it "proved" what we were doing was wrong
> (whereas in my mind she was reacting strongly because I wasn't
> listening to her and I normally do). I wonder if I should limit our
> play dates to her house because TV is not an issue there. Or should I
> talk to my friend and just tell her that I'm not going to turn the TV
> off, so if she would prefer not to come here that's ok??
>
> Thanks for any input!
>
> Susan

I was just talking to a friend about this kind of thing today. We
havnt had much issues about t.v. when friends come over, but video
games sometimes cause issues and I have found it is better to go to the
other families house or to the park so it isnt an issue. If the other
parents are really that against it they would usually prefer that too.

Elly

wow! sandra, that's some pretty harsh language! i really really really try to think of these
things not as "right" vs "wrong" but as "decisions that feel right to us" vs "decisions that
don't". i know my opinion of "right" vs "wrong" has changed a lot in the last few yrs.

but what i'd really do, in addition to having playdates at her house or at parks or museums
or whatever, would be to talk to your daughter about it. as sandra mentions, it'd be kinda
rude to invite a vegetarian over for a meal and serve meat. we have lots of friends who
have different "standards" than we do, and we talk to our kids about it. i've mentioned it
before (possibly on a different list?) but even my 2yo is able to understand that he can
have all the ice cream he wants but it'd make life so much easier and more fun for my BIL
& SIL & their daughter if he waited till they went home, or ate it before they came. both of
my kids are ok with temporary restrictions for the sake of our family & friends, because
they know they're temporary and that they make our family and friends happier and enjoy
their time with us more.

unschooling doesn't have to mean trampling over other people's feelings for the sake of
our kids' freedom. there are for sure things *i'd* be uncomfortable with around my kids
(swearing & racist jokes (even if not meant badly) come to mind, just because my kids are
too little at this point, IMO, to understand how and when to use those things so they don't
offend other folks, and it seems to me like a disservice to them to introduce them to
things that are likely to alienate them from people they want to be with), and i have and
still do ask people we hang around with (like my parents, lol, who curse freely, as did i,
pre-kids!) to help us out by changing their behavior a little while we're around to make life
easier. the last thing i need is for my 5yo and 2yo to be running around telling people to
fuck off! ha! anyways, in the same way i respect that other people have their own comfort
levels, and things that make them uncomfortable, and that inviting them over means
respecting those comfort levels. some people are very stressful to have around because
they have *so* many requirements for their comfort that it's difficult to satisfy them all,
and that does come into play when we consider how often to be around them or have
them over, but it doesn't mean that we should invite them over and knowingly make them
uncomfortable---that seems pretty uncool to me.

it's not like i make my kids follow EVERY rule that other folks make their kids follow (we
lost one set of friends over the fact that i refused to make them wear shoes in the
playground, and to disallow them from climbing up the slide (what i *had* done is tell
them that the people going down the slide have priority (gravity & momentum being on
their side!), so they can climb as long as someone isn't going down. they are both pretty
good at checking and making sure it's safe). i just felt like those were unreasonable
restrictions i wasn't willing to put on them. so i guess it's all up to personal discretion (did
i spell that right?), but it does seem to me that there's a difference between hosting
someone at my home (in which i feel more responsibility to make them comfortable) and
meeting them somewhere (i don't feel as responsible---there are TONS of other people at
the park, and they ALL have different rules, KWIM?).

who knows. but it's worthwhile to consider that your daughter may be old enough to
understand courtesy towards her friends, and that it may be worthwhile to your friendship
to respect your friend's feelings and beliefs as legitimate for *her*, even if they're not
legitimate for *you*, and to help her be comfortable & enjoy herself while she's visiting
you.

elly

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-I wonder if I should limit our
> play dates to her house because TV is not an issue there.=-
>
> That sounds like a great idea.
>
> Just because she's totally wrong...

Sandra Dodd

-=-wow! sandra, that's some pretty harsh language! -=-

What was harsh language?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-it doesn't mean that we should invite them over and knowingly make
them
uncomfortable---that seems pretty uncool to me.-=-

I've never advocated that, and I'm pretty sure I've never done it.
And I've held dozens of philosophy discussions at my house, too, so
I'm not even just talking a few playdates and some coffee or lunch.
I hope it didn't seem I was advocating that.

-=-unschooling doesn't have to mean trampling over other people's
feelings for the sake of our kids' freedom.-=-

What did you read or see or think that caused you to write that? If
it's just a general statement, fine. I agree. If it was in response
to something in this particular topic, I think it's overstated. No
one recommended that.

-=-it's not like i make my kids follow EVERY rule that other folks
make their kids follow (we

lost one set of friends over the fact that i refused to make them
wear shoes in the
playground, and to disallow them from climbing up the slide (what i
*had* done is tell
them that the people going down the slide have priority (gravity &
momentum being on
their side!), so they can climb as long as someone isn't going down.
they are both pretty
good at checking and making sure it's safe). i just felt like those
were unreasonable
restrictions i wasn't willing to put on them. -=-

The other family didn't own the park. It sounds like another parent
wanted to control her kids AND yours AND YOU!

-=-who knows. but it's worthwhile to consider that your daughter may
be old enough to understand courtesy towards her friends, and that it
may be worthwhile to your friendship to respect your friend's
feelings and beliefs as legitimate for *her*, even if they're not
legitimate for *you*, and to help her be comfortable & enjoy herself
while she's visiting you.-=-

What's legitimate for her at her house might have very little to do
with what she should request when she visits you. If I'm listening
to music and someone comes over and wants to talk, I'll probably turn
the music off. But if the visitor walked over and turned it off, I'd
be cranky. If she asked me if it was okay to turn it off, my
response would have to do with how she asked and why and whether she
had been invited or just dropped in. Bottom line, it's not her
house and it's not a public park. It's my house.

When my kids are in they're own home, it's their house. That's
important to me. Visiting adults don't trump my kids. I don't tell
my kids to go in their room because I have company. On the other
hand, there was one family in which the kids weren't allowed to see
or think "Harry Potter," and we liked them enough to move glaring
Harry Potter stuff out of the way if they were over. One family had
two vegans. Still, if the mom or vegan daughter come over (the
family's grown and scattered, but I'm still friends with four of the
six), I find something to put out that they can eat. I don't cleanse
the house of other things, I don't expect everyone else to eat vegan
while they're here, but I try to accommodate them with enough food
that they have the option to hang out and stay as long as they want to.

That same family had TV restrictions when they were little, and my
kids learned that if those kids came over, to have the TV off before
they arrived and to lure them to the back yard quickly so they didn't
get stuck to the TV. Or if my kids wanted to watch a video, they
knew for sure those kids wouldn't object.

The principles of courtesy have a LOT to do with venue. If I meet
someone at a third friend's house, neither of us gets to decide or
control what happens or how. The owner of the home gets final say
and can boot us both out in a heartbeat.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elly

"just because she's totally wrong...". it was funny, but harsh. i find i don't respond in ways i'm
proud of to people if i spend my time thinking about whether what they're doing is right or
wrong.

elly

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-wow! sandra, that's some pretty harsh language! -=-
>
> What was harsh language?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

BRIAN POLIKOWSKY

"just because she's totally wrong...". it was funny, but harsh. i find i don't respond in ways i'm
proud of to people if i spend my time thinking about whether what they're doing is right or
wrong.
-=-=-=-=-=-=
But because this list is a DISCUSSION  people are going to call some things wrong or wright.
If someone comes here and says they do not allow their kids to wacth TV that it is wrong if you want to unschool.
If someone comes here and says they spank their kids and/or punish them people will tell them that is wrong.
 Since you wrote it to the list than the idea has been called wrong ( limiting or prohibiting TV watching)
 
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elly

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-it doesn't mean that we should invite them over and knowingly make
> them
> uncomfortable---that seems pretty uncool to me.-=-
>
> I've never advocated that, and I'm pretty sure I've never done it.
> And I've held dozens of philosophy discussions at my house, too, so
> I'm not even just talking a few playdates and some coffee or lunch.
> I hope it didn't seem I was advocating that.

i didn't say *you* were advocating that, but it seemed that the question was about inviting
a family over, knowing that activity X (in this case watching TV/videos) makes them
uncomfortable, and being unwilling to modify how one usually does things in order to
make them more comfortable. i was suggesting that, at least to me, inviting them over and
persisting in doing things you know make them uncomfortable seems kinda uncool. i
guess like lots of swearing in front of my kids makes me uncomfortable, even though i
have nothing against swearing in principle, KWIM?

i was suggesting that freedom and choices for one's own kids aren't incompatible with
making sure that people we invite over are comfortable; we talk ahead of time, and if the
requirements to make our potential guests feel comfortable are too much for us, then we
don't invite them over; we go to their house or a park or whatever---or in some cases we
decide they feel too high-maintenance to hang out with (at all or as much).

> -=-unschooling doesn't have to mean trampling over other people's
> feelings for the sake of our kids' freedom.-=-
>
> What did you read or see or think that caused you to write that? If
> it's just a general statement, fine. I agree. If it was in response
> to something in this particular topic, I think it's overstated. No
> one recommended that.

i know nobody recommended it explicitly, but i still feel like inviting folks over and doing
things that you KNOW make them uncomfortable *is* kinda trampling their feelings. if you
feel you *must* do those things---that it's impossible or unreasonable to alter your
family's behavior to make your friends comfortable, i'd suggest discussing with your
friends beforehand, or meeting elsewhere.

> The other family didn't own the park. It sounds like another parent
> wanted to control her kids AND yours AND YOU!

well, like i said, i feel a lot more comfortable when folks don't curse a lot around my kids.
at this young age, i feel like it's giving them weapons they're not equipped to wield in ways
that won't offend people they want to be close to. and so i *do* ask my parents, for
example, to try to limit their cursing while we're around. am i trying to control them? well,
yes, in a way; i'm uncomfortable with that going into my kids right now. similarly, my
niece likes to play exclusion games (to leave my son, who's younger, out), and her parents
are ok with that and defend it, but i've said *i'm* uncomfortable with it; he feels sad and he
and his sister play and replay that in the days that follow when it happens here. i've
explained to my niece that we aren't comfortable playing like that, and helped her find
ways to include him, or at least not-explicitly-exclude him. am i controlling her and my
in-laws? yes, in a way, but i think most of us have things that make us comfortable and
uncomfortable and that we can (and should) expect the people we care about to
accomodate us as much as possible (and to explain or discuss where not possible), and
vice versa.

> What's legitimate for her at her house might have very little to do
> with what she should request when she visits you. If I'm listening
> to music and someone comes over and wants to talk, I'll probably turn
> the music off. But if the visitor walked over and turned it off, I'd
> be cranky. If she asked me if it was okay to turn it off, my
> response would have to do with how she asked and why and whether she
> had been invited or just dropped in. Bottom line, it's not her
> house and it's not a public park. It's my house.

but if you invited someone over to your house who you KNEW ahead of time was very
uncomfortable around, say, mozart music, i assume you wouldn't be playing it. and, say
you didn't know, but they came over and heard it playing and said, "hey, do you mind
turning that off, because for whatever reason hearing mozart really makes me
uncomfortable" i'm pretty sure you'd turn it off. of course it's not her house and it's not a
public park, but it makes her uncomfortable, and i bet you'd be aware that you can play it
at all other times and it does no harm to you to take a break from mozart for a while so
you can visit with a valued friend without making her very uncomfortable.

> When my kids are in they're own home, it's their house. That's
> important to me. Visiting adults don't trump my kids. I don't tell

i didn't mean anyone should "trump" my kids. i meant i can talk to my kids about having
the same kindness and courtesy towards our visitors, all of whom we enjoy and care
about, or they wouldn't be invited to our house, as we'd like to have directed towards us
when we visit people. i can talk to them about making people uncomfortable and helping
them BE comfortable when we know how to do that.

> The principles of courtesy have a LOT to do with venue. If I meet
> someone at a third friend's house, neither of us gets to decide or
> control what happens or how. The owner of the home gets final say
> and can boot us both out in a heartbeat.

of course; the point is that *i*, at least, and people *i'd* like to be friends with, sure as
hell try to make people comfortable enough that booting someone from the house, or
someone being so uncomfortable in a home that they don't want to return, should never
come up.

elly

Sandra Dodd

-=-"just because she's totally wrong...". it was funny, but harsh. -=-

As it wasn't directed at anyone, I didn't say it to anyone, and the
person in question isn't on this list, then "harsh" seems too harsh a
word. Because you WERE talking about me and something I said. You
even used my name.

If someone comes to my house and one of my kids is watching TV (I
don't care if that kid is three or seventeen years old), that mom was
wrong--as in behaving inappropriately. Out of line. And if she
thinks TV will ruin her kid's life, she is totally wrong--as in
"incorrect." Flawed logic. Misguided.


-=-i find i don't respond in ways i'm proud of to people if i spend
my time thinking about whether what they're doing is right or wrong.-=-

People have asked my advice since I was a kid. I see that in a
couple of my own kids. Other people ask their opinions, so it's not
just an aberration about me. Kirby prevented a divorce when he was
16, when the husband was ready to move out already. Kirby was able
to see the overall situation and say just the right things in a very
calm way that made them both reconsider, and they stayed together.

I would not be able to respond in ways I would be proud of if I tried
to avoid deciding whether things were right or wrong. In the context
of what a person wants to accomplish, there are things that will help
and things that will hurt. What I care about on this list is
unschooling. In another aspect of my life, a medieval studies club,
what I care about is honor and duty--virtues--and I counsel people
about that, and about helping others become more honorable, even
sometimes in tricky ways. "Social chess," someone called it recently.

If someone wants to make a lot of money, and asked me for advice, the
advice I would give would be different than if a person came and
asked about joining and religious retreat, for sure, but I'd be able
to advise them both pretty effectively. If I were to tell them not
to think about what's right or wrong, but to accept that everyone's
views are valid, they'd never come back for any more advice from me,
for sure.

Not everyone ends up being in a position to help others figure out
how to change their lives quickly and for a purpose, but I'm used to
it. It's been happening since I was little.

Some people do go away because they think I'm harsh. Some of them
hadn't wanted to be here in the first place, and are looking for a
good excuse to leave. Some of those who leave come back later. Some
stick around and change their minds. Some don't. But I'm not going
to change what's been working for decades because a few people ask me
to change to make them more comfortable in what is effectively an
extension of my house.

Stephen King wrote a book in which a man kills a dog. He said he
got a lot of complaint mail from people saying he was cruel to
animals. He said he wrote them all letters saying the character
wasn't a real person, and there never was really a dog.

My collection of statements that support ideas as equal and people
for being just the way they are is here:
http://sandradodd.com/support

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elly

> Some people do go away because they think I'm harsh. Some of them
> hadn't wanted to be here in the first place, and are looking for a
> good excuse to leave. Some of those who leave come back later. Some
> stick around and change their minds. Some don't. But I'm not going
> to change what's been working for decades because a few people ask me
> to change to make them more comfortable in what is effectively an
> extension of my house.

rotflol! ok, didn't mean to invade your living room and boss you around! was just honestly
surprised at the tone of the language; *so* not a big deal. sorry to have come off as
judgmental towards you; it just didn't sound like the same tone as what i've read (from you)
on this list in the last few weeks. obviously, i haven't been listening long enough! ;)

elly

Verna

the kids are 2 years old. i dont think they are going to get the whole
guest thing. so if the moms want to be friends and the other mom is
freaky about t.v., they should play somewhere else. i mean, obviously,
if the child is crying and having a tantrum about Dora being turned
off, not alot of playing or visiting is happening anyway

k

>>>> obviously, i haven't been listening long enough! ;) <<<<

It really helps to read more and respond on topic so that the things
that readers have to read on this list are actually worth reading for
most of the people who pop in or read regularly. Folks on here are
from all over the world, and what someone feels is harsh detracts from
the content of the posts, the unschooling stuff that the list is for.

Perspectives about how the unschooling stuff gets expressed are side
issues. For many, reading the side stuff is usually a waste of time.
If a person posts a lot of that kind of stuff it may get that person's
email name on "ignore" in the minds of the readers who find the
content of that person's posts unworthy of reading.

I don't think that every person who comes across this list appreciates
the tone. I do because we're all online and *not* having to guess
what people are saying is very helpful to me, since in person it's
about being sociable and getting along.

This list is for learning about unschooling. To me, that's what it's all about.

~Katherine

Jenny C

> the kids are 2 years old. i dont think they are going to get the whole
> guest thing. so if the moms want to be friends and the other mom is
> freaky about t.v., they should play somewhere else. i mean, obviously,
> if the child is crying and having a tantrum about Dora being turned
> off, not alot of playing or visiting is happening anyway
>


Expecting 2 yo's to play with each other is something like magic. It
doesn't just happen, unless there is some very interesting connection
between the 2 little ones. I've only seen it happen once. That was
with Chamille and another little girl that she met when she turned 1.
It was like magic, they were completely drawn to one another and totally
inseperable! They later became self proclaimed sisters and they still
keep in touch, at 14, even though their lives are very different.

Most 2 yo's, I've met, including my own, prefer the company of mom or
dad, and while fascinated with another little one, they play as an
extension of the parent. If a 2 yo is really more interested in
watching Dora, then maybe they really aren't ready for playdates, and
get togethers with the other mom and daughter should be in neutralish
play ground type atmosphere where they can do their own thing along side
of mom, while mom can talk and interact with the other mom.

Margaux only recently has been able to have play time get togethers with
other kids without my constant interaction and involvement and she is 7.
To do so before it came naturally caused anxiety and conflict and
thankfully I recognized this and was able to be very present for her.

Joanna Murphy

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> Just because she's totally wrong doesn't mean she doesn't have the
> right to hear opinion, and to have her house TV-free.

I'm assuming that you meant to say, "the right to HER opinion?" That had me going for a
while trying to work out how it fit with "the right to hear opinion..." lol

Sandra Dodd

-=-
I'm assuming that you meant to say, "the right to HER opinion?" That
had me going for a
while trying to work out how it fit with "the right to hear
opinion..." lol-=-

Doh.
Those typos where other words are made are the worst. Right. Well,
she can have her opinion AND hear other ones, I guess, then!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

DaBreeze21

--==the kids are 2 years old. i dont think they are going to get the whole
guest thing. so if the moms want to be friends and the other mom is
freaky about t.v., they should play somewhere else.==--

--==Expecting 2 yo's to play with each other is something like magic.
It doesn't just happen, unless there is some very interesting connection
between the 2 little ones....
If a 2 yo is really more interested in watching Dora, then maybe they
really aren't ready for playdates, and get togethers with the other
mom and daughter should be in neutralish play ground type atmosphere
where they can do their own thing along side
of mom, while mom can talk and interact with the other mom.==--

Thanks to everyone for the input. I have to agree with what was said
above. I think trying to explain to my daughter at this point that we
can't have the TV on when these particular guests are over is a little
above her head. Definitely the best scenario(s) right now is for us to
meet at the other mom's house or outside at a playground. And that is
fine. I actually was able to have the TV off before they arrived the
play date before this particular one -- but it wasn't easy to do! And
this past time I was so busy cleaning up etc, that I just didn't have
time to address it before they arrived.

I have ALWAYS felt that play dates are more for me than my daughter
and/or the kids we get together and babysit for. (I know that will
change as they get older, they are just pretty little still). It is
funny because I had a similar conversation with the same friend and
another friend a while ago. The other friend asked, "well isn't the
point when we get together for them to play together?" and my response
to that is that my first concern is that they are all happy and cared
for, and the play date for me is as much about MY socialization and
getting some adult contact. So I really try to keep that in mind -- to
balance what is best for her and the other kids.

I also appreciate all the discussion about boundaries in your own home
versus another person's home versus public situations. This was
something that was bothering me a little bit. I in no way meant to be
disrespectful to my friend, which is why I DID turn the TV off even
though I knew it would lead to unhappiness on my daughter's part. I
also felt that the computer was a good compromise for that particular
day because otherwise who knows if we would have had any fun!

As always, thanks to everyone for the food for thought!

Susan

krissy8444

Susan,
I have a 2 1/2 yr old daughter who still nurses loves Dora as well! I am trying to provide
my daughter with more opportunities to see "friends" as she calls them. Would you be
interested in meeting at the park or elsewhere? We seem to have alot in common.
If so, please contact me offlist at chris@....
Cheers,
Christine

--- In [email protected], "DaBreeze21" <susanmay15@...> wrote:
>
> Hello--
>
> I just had a play date with a friend and her 2 children - daughter, 2
> yo, and son about 8 months. My daughter is 2 1/2.
>
> I recently posted about my daughter's current love of Dora. So of
> course it was on this morning when our friends arrived. And we have a
> BIG, HD TV so it is very attention grabbing!
>
> My friend wanted to turn it off. I talked to Marisol about it and
> turned it off and it led to a big emotional reaction, which I was not
> surprised about. I felt bad turning it off, but I also wanted to
> respect my friends wishes. We ended up compromising and I put Dora on
> our laptop where Marisol (and the other little girl) could see it.
> Marisol nursed for a little bit and calmed down and was happy the rest
> of the play date.
>
> However, I know that the mom would have liked even the computer to be
> off. She commented that she has noticed that her daughter is really
> cranky after watching.... AND that the longer she watches the crankier
> she is when it gets turned off. My thoughts were that is because she
> is never allowed to watch (they don't even own a TV - just a computer)
> and that she really likes it so when she IS allowed she wants more. I
> didn't say that though.
>
> The awkward part was that the entire time we spent trying to entice
> the little girl away from Dora -- with other toys, music, dancing,
> building, etc. She was always drawn back. Marisol joined in with us
> several times of her own volition.
>
> Overall, even with the awkwardness the play date was really enjoyable.
> I really enjoy talking with this friend. She knows that we differ on
> this issue, I have talked a little bit about not limiting TV. I'm sure
> that she thought it was a bit crazy how upset Marisol was to have it
> turned off though, and that it "proved" what we were doing was wrong
> (whereas in my mind she was reacting strongly because I wasn't
> listening to her and I normally do). I wonder if I should limit our
> play dates to her house because TV is not an issue there. Or should I
> talk to my friend and just tell her that I'm not going to turn the TV
> off, so if she would prefer not to come here that's ok??
>
> Thanks for any input!
>
> Susan
>