Books for parents having troubled relationships with their teens
Joyce Fetteroll
Relations between my nephew and his parents has gone way down hill to
the point where he's blowing up at home, tells them he hates them,
can't wait to move out. He's been smoking marijuana for 3 years (he's
17), smokes cigarettes, tried cocaine.
It all sounds like the product of a disconnected family with a lot of
issues, but they aren't. He's a good kid. Their parenting, while
conventional, has never made me cringe. Twitch a few times ;-) but
minor stuff.
But obviously there's a major breakdown in communication. I suspect
he's been under a lot of pressure for a while since he's been
swimming competitively for years and gets very good grades and all
their reactions that seem like the right thing to do in response to
what he's doing is just making things worse.
She loved the Siblings Without Rivalry book so I don't think they
would be close minded to trying something different. (They're going
for family counseling next week so they are trying something.)
So if you could give one book to help someone heal their broken
relationship with their teen, what would it be?
Parent/Teen Breakthrough is my first thought. My memory is that it
felt kind of radical so maybe something that *feels* more conventional.
Has anyone read Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn? Would it work
for a relationship that's already damaged or is that better for
preventing it?
Any others?
Joyce
the point where he's blowing up at home, tells them he hates them,
can't wait to move out. He's been smoking marijuana for 3 years (he's
17), smokes cigarettes, tried cocaine.
It all sounds like the product of a disconnected family with a lot of
issues, but they aren't. He's a good kid. Their parenting, while
conventional, has never made me cringe. Twitch a few times ;-) but
minor stuff.
But obviously there's a major breakdown in communication. I suspect
he's been under a lot of pressure for a while since he's been
swimming competitively for years and gets very good grades and all
their reactions that seem like the right thing to do in response to
what he's doing is just making things worse.
She loved the Siblings Without Rivalry book so I don't think they
would be close minded to trying something different. (They're going
for family counseling next week so they are trying something.)
So if you could give one book to help someone heal their broken
relationship with their teen, what would it be?
Parent/Teen Breakthrough is my first thought. My memory is that it
felt kind of radical so maybe something that *feels* more conventional.
Has anyone read Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn? Would it work
for a relationship that's already damaged or is that better for
preventing it?
Any others?
Joyce
Lyla Wolfenstein
joyce -
i was going to suggest parent teen breakthrough too! but unconditional parenting, while great on theory and reasons to NOT be conditional / not use punishments and rewards - lacks practical advice on what to do INSTEAD and is geared more toward younger kids.
i'd suggest hold onto your kids: why parents matter, by gordon neufeld and gabor mate, for a slightly more mainstream book, which assumes school (so does alfie), but is ALL about connection and attachment, and repairing bonds, and "collecting our kids". there is a dvd too, if a 2 hour audiovisual would go over better....
patty wipfler has a nice 40 page booklet on connecting/reaching for your angry teen - supporting adolescents - as well....
www.handinhandparenting.org/literature.html#SupportingAdolescents
warmly, Lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
i was going to suggest parent teen breakthrough too! but unconditional parenting, while great on theory and reasons to NOT be conditional / not use punishments and rewards - lacks practical advice on what to do INSTEAD and is geared more toward younger kids.
i'd suggest hold onto your kids: why parents matter, by gordon neufeld and gabor mate, for a slightly more mainstream book, which assumes school (so does alfie), but is ALL about connection and attachment, and repairing bonds, and "collecting our kids". there is a dvd too, if a 2 hour audiovisual would go over better....
patty wipfler has a nice 40 page booklet on connecting/reaching for your angry teen - supporting adolescents - as well....
www.handinhandparenting.org/literature.html#SupportingAdolescents
warmly, Lyla
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:04 PM, Joyce Fetteroll wrote:
much radical as honest. Also, it is far more extreme sounding to
parents of younger children, not so much to parents of teens, and
especially not to parents of teens already facing issues like smoking
and drugs and rebellion. I have recommended it to hundreds of people
and dozens have come back to say it turned everything around for them.
be clear how to apply it to a relationship that is already in trouble.
-pam
> Parent/Teen Breakthrough is my first thought. My memory is that itGo with it - there is NOTHING out there nearly as good and it isn't so
> felt kind of radical so maybe something that *feels* more
> conventional.
much radical as honest. Also, it is far more extreme sounding to
parents of younger children, not so much to parents of teens, and
especially not to parents of teens already facing issues like smoking
and drugs and rebellion. I have recommended it to hundreds of people
and dozens have come back to say it turned everything around for them.
>It is great, but better for parents of young children. It won't really
>
> Has anyone read Unconditional Parenting by Alfie Kohn? Would it work
> for a relationship that's already damaged or is that better for
> preventing it?
be clear how to apply it to a relationship that is already in trouble.
-pam
Brad Holcomb
Hold On to Your Kids - Why Parents Need to Matter More than Peers. Neufeld.
http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids-Parents-Matter/dp/0375760288
I read this book right before my first child was born, and it was enormously
healing and helpful. It helped me understand many of the "why's" around my
own parents' choices. The author wrote it after losing touch with a couple
of his own teenagers and figuring out how to reconnect with them. -=b.
http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids-Parents-Matter/dp/0375760288
I read this book right before my first child was born, and it was enormously
healing and helpful. It helped me understand many of the "why's" around my
own parents' choices. The author wrote it after losing touch with a couple
of his own teenagers and figuring out how to reconnect with them. -=b.
Meghan Anderson-Coates
<<<<<<<<<> Parent/Teen Breakthrough is my first thought. My memory is that it
much radical as honest. Also, it is far more extreme sounding to
parents of younger children, not so much to parents of teens, and
especially not to parents of teens already facing issues like smoking
and drugs and rebellion. I have recommended it to hundreds of people
and dozens have come back to say it turned everything around for them.>>>>>>>>>>>
I would agree with Pam on this one. It is by far the best book I've read on parenting teens. It also assumes the kid's going to school so there are a lot of 'in school' references.
Meghan
Childhood is not preparation for adulthood - it is a part of life.
~ A. S. Neill
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> felt kind of radical so maybe something that *feels* moreGo with it - there is NOTHING out there nearly as good and it isn't so
> conventional.
much radical as honest. Also, it is far more extreme sounding to
parents of younger children, not so much to parents of teens, and
especially not to parents of teens already facing issues like smoking
and drugs and rebellion. I have recommended it to hundreds of people
and dozens have come back to say it turned everything around for them.>>>>>>>>>>>
I would agree with Pam on this one. It is by far the best book I've read on parenting teens. It also assumes the kid's going to school so there are a lot of 'in school' references.
Meghan
Childhood is not preparation for adulthood - it is a part of life.
~ A. S. Neill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
Thank you :-) I was brave and ordered another copy of Parent/Teen.
I'll go with that. And I won't have to read it before I send it since
I've read it, albeit a long time ago.
And it's good to have the insights on the point of view of
Unconditional Parenting. It's hard to tell from a review what mental
set the ideas are aimed at.
Thanks!
Joyce
I'll go with that. And I won't have to read it before I send it since
I've read it, albeit a long time ago.
And it's good to have the insights on the point of view of
Unconditional Parenting. It's hard to tell from a review what mental
set the ideas are aimed at.
Thanks!
Joyce
Robert Alcock
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
But I'm surprised nobody suggested sending a copy of "The Teenage
Liberation Handbook" by Grace Llewelyn.
To the son, naturally! To me, it sounds like he's the one with the
problems, which may well be related to the intense pressure he's under
to perform in the formal education system.
Robert
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>Sorry if this is too late...
> Thank you :-) I was brave and ordered another copy of Parent/Teen.
> I'll go with that. And I won't have to read it before I send it since
> I've read it, albeit a long time ago.
>
> And it's good to have the insights on the point of view of
> Unconditional Parenting. It's hard to tell from a review what mental
> set the ideas are aimed at.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Joyce
>
But I'm surprised nobody suggested sending a copy of "The Teenage
Liberation Handbook" by Grace Llewelyn.
To the son, naturally! To me, it sounds like he's the one with the
problems, which may well be related to the intense pressure he's under
to perform in the formal education system.
Robert
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 20, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Robert Alcock wrote:
He's well aware there's an option.
The parents are aware, too. I imagine it's a factor in the
situation. They've probably assured him more than once that the
pressures are necessary to make sure he grows up in a successful
fashion. And the older Kathryn gets and the more apparent it is that
she's doing great, the less faith he probably has in his parents'
assertions and judgment.
I'm guessing, but it's a guess made on situations I've seen over the
years. What we do isn't guaranteed to promote peace in families who
are NOT unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But I'm surprised nobody suggested sending a copy of "The TeenageBut his aunt is Joyce Fetteroll. His cousin is Kathryn Fetteroll.
> Liberation Handbook" by Grace Llewelyn.
He's well aware there's an option.
The parents are aware, too. I imagine it's a factor in the
situation. They've probably assured him more than once that the
pressures are necessary to make sure he grows up in a successful
fashion. And the older Kathryn gets and the more apparent it is that
she's doing great, the less faith he probably has in his parents'
assertions and judgment.
I'm guessing, but it's a guess made on situations I've seen over the
years. What we do isn't guaranteed to promote peace in families who
are NOT unschooling.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robert Alcock
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
different things. The book I mentioned is specifically aimed at
empowering teenagers to take steps to free themselves from school.
I discovered unschooling at about the same age, 17 - through an
alternative education group (in the UK, The Potential Trust) and
through reading Ivan Illich and A.S.Neill. These books espouse the
principles, but they don't offer guidance to the individual. Maybe if
I had had a guide, I wouldn't have had to go through a further 8 years
of formal education before finding my own path...
It seems to me the right course in this situation is to support the
teenager, rather than try to win the parents over - which isn't going
to happen, since their philosophy is clearly not in line with
unschooling. However, I grant you that this would not be likely to
produce family harmony in the short run.
Robert
>But being aware, and being empowered to do something about it, are
>
> On Jan 20, 2009, at 6:06 PM, Robert Alcock wrote:
>
> > But I'm surprised nobody suggested sending a copy of "The Teenage
> > Liberation Handbook" by Grace Llewelyn.
>
> But his aunt is Joyce Fetteroll. His cousin is Kathryn Fetteroll.
> He's well aware there's an option.
> The parents are aware, too. I imagine it's a factor in the
> situation. They've probably assured him more than once that the
> pressures are necessary to make sure he grows up in a successful
> fashion. And the older Kathryn gets and the more apparent it is that
> she's doing great, the less faith he probably has in his parents'
> assertions and judgment.
>
> I'm guessing, but it's a guess made on situations I've seen over the
> years. What we do isn't guaranteed to promote peace in families who
> are NOT unschooling.
>
> Sandra
>
different things. The book I mentioned is specifically aimed at
empowering teenagers to take steps to free themselves from school.
I discovered unschooling at about the same age, 17 - through an
alternative education group (in the UK, The Potential Trust) and
through reading Ivan Illich and A.S.Neill. These books espouse the
principles, but they don't offer guidance to the individual. Maybe if
I had had a guide, I wouldn't have had to go through a further 8 years
of formal education before finding my own path...
It seems to me the right course in this situation is to support the
teenager, rather than try to win the parents over - which isn't going
to happen, since their philosophy is clearly not in line with
unschooling. However, I grant you that this would not be likely to
produce family harmony in the short run.
Robert
Sandra Dodd
On Jan 20, 2009, at 7:39 PM, Robert Alcock wrote:
Joyce and asked for advice on improving their relationship with him.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But being aware, and being empowered to do something about it, areTrue, and he might like the book, but I'm suspecting his mom talked to
> different things. The book I mentioned is specifically aimed at
> empowering teenagers to take steps to free themselves from school.
Joyce and asked for advice on improving their relationship with him.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 20, 2009, at 8:06 PM, Robert Alcock wrote:
that's the direction I'd take with the *parents*. (For these
particular parents.)
But I don't think that's true. He's 5 mos from graduating, he's got a
full academic scholarship to a college -- that doesn't have
swimming ;-), and he has a good idea what he wants to do.
If the pressure to stop pulling away, to stop doing what's natural to
teens was off of him, I think he'd be as fine as a schooled kid can be.
They're caring people who want to fix things but all they have are
conventional tools.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> To the son, naturally! To me, it sounds like he's the one with theIf he hated school, if school wasn't right for his style of learning,
> problems, which may well be related to the intense pressure he's under
> to perform in the formal education system.
that's the direction I'd take with the *parents*. (For these
particular parents.)
But I don't think that's true. He's 5 mos from graduating, he's got a
full academic scholarship to a college -- that doesn't have
swimming ;-), and he has a good idea what he wants to do.
If the pressure to stop pulling away, to stop doing what's natural to
teens was off of him, I think he'd be as fine as a schooled kid can be.
They're caring people who want to fix things but all they have are
conventional tools.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
graberamy
--- In [email protected], Joyce Fetteroll
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
but I have been that 17yo who smoked marijuana, ciggies, drank and
tried my share of drugs. Is that where the fight between him and his
family is? Do they not want him NOT doing those things? Do they
think doing those things make him seem like less? Is he blowing up at
them because he does these things or because of the power struggle
over them.
I'm guessing this won't be a popular view but not everyone who tries
or does these things for a phase means the outcome will be that they
are an addict or uncapable of being productive people? Granted
statistically your chances are much greater.
But if that's the big issue (the drugs), what if they just let it go?
I personally am not a big fan of pot, I'm already pretty laid back so
I don't need something to bring me down. But some people are wired
more tightly and it's their way of self medicating. Cocaine and other
drugs while I would totally recommend staying away from them, I do
understand the desire to experiment and see what the hype is about. I
know quite a few people who have tried this and never became addicts
or even frequent users.
Caffeine, I used it for years. I can't stand it now, but it took me
years to figure out that my body doesn't handle caffeine very well.
If my parents would have told me not to use it, that would have made
me want to use it even more.
Ciggies, we're in a big anti smoking world right now. I used to smoke
frequently. But now I still smoke occasionally...like if I go out
with friends. I don't smoke daily. Not everyone who smokes is
addicted to nicotine...again your chances go way up. But many people
who are addicted to nicotine, do quit. Isn't this his decision??
But you're asking for book advice and I'm not sure if there is a book
out there that would say let your kids experiment. Let them possibly
risk their health and their lives. But IMO, if they can continue to
be supportive of him and maybe let some of the control go, they'll
improve their relationship. He's going off to college soon and he'll
be free to do whatever he wants. Instead of his parents being the
antagonist that he can't or won't come to, they can be the loving
supportive people they've always been???
I don't know if that'll help but it helped me to write it in case I do
have kids that chose to do things I wouldn't probably recommend they do!
amy g
iowa
<jfetteroll@...> wrote:
>Hmmm, I don't have teenagers so I can't speak from that point of view,
> Relations between my nephew and his parents has gone way down hill to
> the point where he's blowing up at home, tells them he hates them,
> can't wait to move out. He's been smoking marijuana for 3 years (he's
> 17), smokes cigarettes, tried cocaine.
>
but I have been that 17yo who smoked marijuana, ciggies, drank and
tried my share of drugs. Is that where the fight between him and his
family is? Do they not want him NOT doing those things? Do they
think doing those things make him seem like less? Is he blowing up at
them because he does these things or because of the power struggle
over them.
I'm guessing this won't be a popular view but not everyone who tries
or does these things for a phase means the outcome will be that they
are an addict or uncapable of being productive people? Granted
statistically your chances are much greater.
But if that's the big issue (the drugs), what if they just let it go?
I personally am not a big fan of pot, I'm already pretty laid back so
I don't need something to bring me down. But some people are wired
more tightly and it's their way of self medicating. Cocaine and other
drugs while I would totally recommend staying away from them, I do
understand the desire to experiment and see what the hype is about. I
know quite a few people who have tried this and never became addicts
or even frequent users.
Caffeine, I used it for years. I can't stand it now, but it took me
years to figure out that my body doesn't handle caffeine very well.
If my parents would have told me not to use it, that would have made
me want to use it even more.
Ciggies, we're in a big anti smoking world right now. I used to smoke
frequently. But now I still smoke occasionally...like if I go out
with friends. I don't smoke daily. Not everyone who smokes is
addicted to nicotine...again your chances go way up. But many people
who are addicted to nicotine, do quit. Isn't this his decision??
But you're asking for book advice and I'm not sure if there is a book
out there that would say let your kids experiment. Let them possibly
risk their health and their lives. But IMO, if they can continue to
be supportive of him and maybe let some of the control go, they'll
improve their relationship. He's going off to college soon and he'll
be free to do whatever he wants. Instead of his parents being the
antagonist that he can't or won't come to, they can be the loving
supportive people they've always been???
I don't know if that'll help but it helped me to write it in case I do
have kids that chose to do things I wouldn't probably recommend they do!
amy g
iowa
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jan 21, 2009, at 1:51 PM, graberamy wrote:
premise is not to do anything that doesn't improve your relationship
with your child. There are anecdotes of kids who are using drugs in
the book. Those made an impression on me since Kat was young at the
time I read it and it was hard imagining a parent not locking the kid
up ;-) I understood the whole point of letting go but it was still
hard to imagine!
But now it's easier to imagine now that Kat's more independent.
Control is an illusion. But I can imagine it's harder to accept that
for parents whose kids are including dangerous activities in their
forays into independence. And I understand the kids too. A lot of the
dangerous stuff is a way of saying "Ha, you can't control me and I'll
show you how little control you have."
Which is what makes the book good because she gets that we can't
control them. All we have is the opportunity to influence them. And
we can't influence them if they don't trust us.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> But if that's the big issue (the drugs), what if they just let it go?That's the approach of the Parent/Teen Breakthrough book. The basic
premise is not to do anything that doesn't improve your relationship
with your child. There are anecdotes of kids who are using drugs in
the book. Those made an impression on me since Kat was young at the
time I read it and it was hard imagining a parent not locking the kid
up ;-) I understood the whole point of letting go but it was still
hard to imagine!
But now it's easier to imagine now that Kat's more independent.
Control is an illusion. But I can imagine it's harder to accept that
for parents whose kids are including dangerous activities in their
forays into independence. And I understand the kids too. A lot of the
dangerous stuff is a way of saying "Ha, you can't control me and I'll
show you how little control you have."
Which is what makes the book good because she gets that we can't
control them. All we have is the opportunity to influence them. And
we can't influence them if they don't trust us.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jan 21, 2009, at 10:51 AM, graberamy wrote:
don't make those such a big issue that they interfere in the parent/
teen relationship.
-pam
> But you're asking for book advice and I'm not sure if there is a bookThe "Parent-Teen Breakthrough" - yes. Well, it would at least say
> out there that would say let your kids experiment.
don't make those such a big issue that they interfere in the parent/
teen relationship.
-pam
Bob Collier
I gave my son Pat a copy of this book on his 13th birthday (last
September):
TEENAGERS: Your Essential Guide to the Weird World of... Adults
by Keith Gilbert
http://books.lulu.com/content/663098
Since Pat's not a book reader, he hasn't read it yet, but that's okay.
Our relationship is fine. It's really something I wish somebody had
given to me on my 13th birthday that I think he would find useful
anyway. I've read it. :-)
Bob
September):
TEENAGERS: Your Essential Guide to the Weird World of... Adults
by Keith Gilbert
http://books.lulu.com/content/663098
Since Pat's not a book reader, he hasn't read it yet, but that's okay.
Our relationship is fine. It's really something I wish somebody had
given to me on my 13th birthday that I think he would find useful
anyway. I've read it. :-)
Bob
Pamela Sorooshian
Could you tell us a little more about it, Bob? What is NLP
(neurolinguistic programming)? I'm curious, but not quite curious to
spend money on it without knowing more.
-Pam
(neurolinguistic programming)? I'm curious, but not quite curious to
spend money on it without knowing more.
-Pam
On Jan 22, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Bob Collier wrote:
> I gave my son Pat a copy of this book on his 13th birthday (last
> September):
>
> TEENAGERS: Your Essential Guide to the Weird World of... Adults
> by Keith Gilbert
>
> http://books.lulu.com/content/663098
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
I'll ditto that! I'm curious now. Is it a book that an unschooled teen
might appreciate, or is it more mainstream? Not that my teen would be
especially interested in it at this moment in her life , but she may be
when she's a bit older. I'm going to see if my library has it, so I can
read it first hand, simply because it sounds interesting.
might appreciate, or is it more mainstream? Not that my teen would be
especially interested in it at this moment in her life , but she may be
when she's a bit older. I'm going to see if my library has it, so I can
read it first hand, simply because it sounds interesting.
> Could you tell us a little more about it, Bob? What is NLP
> (neurolinguistic programming)? I'm curious, but not quite curious to
> spend money on it without knowing more.
>
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
What is NLP? This is Keith Gilbert's explanation:
http://www.neurolinguisticparents.com/WhatisNLP.htm
Brief and not very clear, IMHO.
I first encountered NLP way back in 1990 when I bought a book out of
curiosity called Introducing Neuro-Linguistic Programming by Joseph
O'Connor and John Seymour, which described NLP as "The New Psychology
of Personal Excellence".
From the back cover of the book:
"Some people appear more gifted than others. NLP describes in simple
terms what they do differently, and enables you to learn these
patterns of excellence."
I don't know about the "in simple terms". The book has a glossary of
words I'd never heard of at the time that I needed to learn to make
sense of the book. I like things to be explained to me in plain
English, so that totally put me off NLP, until I started to see it
being promoted all around the internet maybe five or six years ago,
and I became interested in it again.
NLP is the creation of John Grinder, when he was an assistant
professor of linguistics at the University in California, Santa Cruz,
and Richard Bandler, who was then a psychology student at the
university. They began collaborating in 1972 to analyse the patterns
of speech and behaviour of three famous therapists of the day - Fritz
Perls, Viginia Satir and Milton Erickson - so they could discover
exactly what they said and did and thus be able to pass that on to
other people so they could learn to say and do it too. In 1976,
Grinder and Bandler decided to call what they were doing
Neuro-Linguistic Programming - "... a cumbersome phrase that covers
three simple ideas. The 'Neuro' part of NLP acknowledges the
fundamental idea that all behaviour stems from our neurological
processes of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch and feeling. We
experience the world through our five senses; we make 'sense' of the
information and then act on it. ... The 'Linguistic' part of the title
indicates that we use language to order our thoughts and behaviour and
to communicate with others. The 'Programming' part refers to ways we
can choose to organize our ideas and actions to produce results. NLP
deals with the structure of human subjective experience; how we
organize what we see, hear and feel, and how we edit and filter the
outside world through our senses. It also explores how we describe it
in language and how we act, both intentionally and unintentionally, to
produce results."
Because Grinder and Bandler's original work was with therapists, many
people seem to think NLP is a form of therapy, and it's often sold on
the internet as such, but it isn't intended to be. It's basically
about modelling excellence in a structured, methodical way, although
that can sometimes, in itself, have therapeutic benefits.
I have seen on the internet some extraordinary and outrageous claims
made for NLP, usually related to reading people's minds and making
others obey our every whim and that kind of thing, and there's some
controversy over how 'scientific' it is, but I don't know that its
originators ever claimed that it was 'scientific'. I personally don't
regard anything related to human psychology as 'scientific' - in fact,
quite the opposite - but, for me, it doesn't need to be scientific to
be useful.
I think NLP is very useful. I don't actually 'do NLP' myself, but I
recognise in it many of the 'tools and techniques' that have been part
of my daily life for many years, only presented in a more
sophisticated context. Indeed, I now have a fine collection of NLP
books, mp3s and even playing cards that I often refer to. My
understanding, such as it is, of how I think and what I perceive and
how that affects my behaviour and experiences has been conglomerated
over the years from a variety of sources. If I had to do it all over
again, I'd simply 'learn NLP'.
Keith Gilbert's book "Teenagers ..." applies all the established NLP
tools and techniques specifically to relationships between teenagers
and their parents. There's a particular emphasis on showing teenagers
how grown ups use language to manipulate behaviour and how to deal
with that.
Here's what it says in the Introduction:
"Teenagers
What are you going to find in this book?
Some FUN!
Language - how people use it and what it tells you about how they think.
Ways you can protect yourself from other people's attempts at making
you do things you might not want to...and don't have to do.
Ways to discover what you really want to do.
Ways to do what you really want to do.
Mental exercises that will help you free yourself from limiting ideas
about what you think you can and cannot do.
How to rebel against limiting adult thinking in safe, clever and
stylish ways.
How to determine your own physical, emotional and mental wellbeing.
How to determine, for you, the most appropriate way to live in the
world with other people and the environment.
Ways to create and maintain healthy relationships.
An excellent adventure."
There's a $5 ebook version available at Lulu.com, btw.
I will be attending Keith Gilbert's The Technology of Choice workshop
in Sydney over the weekend of February 21-22, so that I have a better
grasp of the practicalities of NLP myself and can absorb more of its
tools and techniques directly into my daily life. The Technology of
Choice workshop was formerly his Neuro-Linguistic Parents workshop. A
report on my experiences will appear in probably the March issue of my
newsletter.
Hope that helps.
Bob
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>Hi, Pam
> Could you tell us a little more about it, Bob? What is NLP
> (neurolinguistic programming)? I'm curious, but not quite curious to
> spend money on it without knowing more.
>
> -Pam
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2009, at 3:54 PM, Bob Collier wrote:
>
> > I gave my son Pat a copy of this book on his 13th birthday (last
> > September):
> >
> > TEENAGERS: Your Essential Guide to the Weird World of... Adults
> > by Keith Gilbert
> >
> > http://books.lulu.com/content/663098
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
What is NLP? This is Keith Gilbert's explanation:
http://www.neurolinguisticparents.com/WhatisNLP.htm
Brief and not very clear, IMHO.
I first encountered NLP way back in 1990 when I bought a book out of
curiosity called Introducing Neuro-Linguistic Programming by Joseph
O'Connor and John Seymour, which described NLP as "The New Psychology
of Personal Excellence".
From the back cover of the book:
"Some people appear more gifted than others. NLP describes in simple
terms what they do differently, and enables you to learn these
patterns of excellence."
I don't know about the "in simple terms". The book has a glossary of
words I'd never heard of at the time that I needed to learn to make
sense of the book. I like things to be explained to me in plain
English, so that totally put me off NLP, until I started to see it
being promoted all around the internet maybe five or six years ago,
and I became interested in it again.
NLP is the creation of John Grinder, when he was an assistant
professor of linguistics at the University in California, Santa Cruz,
and Richard Bandler, who was then a psychology student at the
university. They began collaborating in 1972 to analyse the patterns
of speech and behaviour of three famous therapists of the day - Fritz
Perls, Viginia Satir and Milton Erickson - so they could discover
exactly what they said and did and thus be able to pass that on to
other people so they could learn to say and do it too. In 1976,
Grinder and Bandler decided to call what they were doing
Neuro-Linguistic Programming - "... a cumbersome phrase that covers
three simple ideas. The 'Neuro' part of NLP acknowledges the
fundamental idea that all behaviour stems from our neurological
processes of sight, hearing, smell, taste, touch and feeling. We
experience the world through our five senses; we make 'sense' of the
information and then act on it. ... The 'Linguistic' part of the title
indicates that we use language to order our thoughts and behaviour and
to communicate with others. The 'Programming' part refers to ways we
can choose to organize our ideas and actions to produce results. NLP
deals with the structure of human subjective experience; how we
organize what we see, hear and feel, and how we edit and filter the
outside world through our senses. It also explores how we describe it
in language and how we act, both intentionally and unintentionally, to
produce results."
Because Grinder and Bandler's original work was with therapists, many
people seem to think NLP is a form of therapy, and it's often sold on
the internet as such, but it isn't intended to be. It's basically
about modelling excellence in a structured, methodical way, although
that can sometimes, in itself, have therapeutic benefits.
I have seen on the internet some extraordinary and outrageous claims
made for NLP, usually related to reading people's minds and making
others obey our every whim and that kind of thing, and there's some
controversy over how 'scientific' it is, but I don't know that its
originators ever claimed that it was 'scientific'. I personally don't
regard anything related to human psychology as 'scientific' - in fact,
quite the opposite - but, for me, it doesn't need to be scientific to
be useful.
I think NLP is very useful. I don't actually 'do NLP' myself, but I
recognise in it many of the 'tools and techniques' that have been part
of my daily life for many years, only presented in a more
sophisticated context. Indeed, I now have a fine collection of NLP
books, mp3s and even playing cards that I often refer to. My
understanding, such as it is, of how I think and what I perceive and
how that affects my behaviour and experiences has been conglomerated
over the years from a variety of sources. If I had to do it all over
again, I'd simply 'learn NLP'.
Keith Gilbert's book "Teenagers ..." applies all the established NLP
tools and techniques specifically to relationships between teenagers
and their parents. There's a particular emphasis on showing teenagers
how grown ups use language to manipulate behaviour and how to deal
with that.
Here's what it says in the Introduction:
"Teenagers
What are you going to find in this book?
Some FUN!
Language - how people use it and what it tells you about how they think.
Ways you can protect yourself from other people's attempts at making
you do things you might not want to...and don't have to do.
Ways to discover what you really want to do.
Ways to do what you really want to do.
Mental exercises that will help you free yourself from limiting ideas
about what you think you can and cannot do.
How to rebel against limiting adult thinking in safe, clever and
stylish ways.
How to determine your own physical, emotional and mental wellbeing.
How to determine, for you, the most appropriate way to live in the
world with other people and the environment.
Ways to create and maintain healthy relationships.
An excellent adventure."
There's a $5 ebook version available at Lulu.com, btw.
I will be attending Keith Gilbert's The Technology of Choice workshop
in Sydney over the weekend of February 21-22, so that I have a better
grasp of the practicalities of NLP myself and can absorb more of its
tools and techniques directly into my daily life. The Technology of
Choice workshop was formerly his Neuro-Linguistic Parents workshop. A
report on my experiences will appear in probably the March issue of my
newsletter.
Hope that helps.
Bob
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
Please see my reply to Pam.
Keith Gilbert's book unequivocally sides with the teenager rather than
parents and adults generally, so I'd say it's well outside the
mainstream.
I think parents of unschooled teenagers would, however, already
understand much of what the book advocates in terms of respecting our
children's feelings, choices, etc., but how I see it with my son Pat
is that, while he doesn't need the 'tools and techniques' of NLP so
much for his relationship with his parents, he may well appreciate
having them available to him when dealing with the less enlightened in
the world at large.
Bob
>Hi, Jenny
>
> I'll ditto that! I'm curious now. Is it a book that an unschooled teen
> might appreciate, or is it more mainstream? Not that my teen would be
> especially interested in it at this moment in her life , but she may be
> when she's a bit older. I'm going to see if my library has it, so I can
> read it first hand, simply because it sounds interesting.
>
>
> > Could you tell us a little more about it, Bob? What is NLP
> > (neurolinguistic programming)? I'm curious, but not quite curious to
> > spend money on it without knowing more.
> >
>
Please see my reply to Pam.
Keith Gilbert's book unequivocally sides with the teenager rather than
parents and adults generally, so I'd say it's well outside the
mainstream.
I think parents of unschooled teenagers would, however, already
understand much of what the book advocates in terms of respecting our
children's feelings, choices, etc., but how I see it with my son Pat
is that, while he doesn't need the 'tools and techniques' of NLP so
much for his relationship with his parents, he may well appreciate
having them available to him when dealing with the less enlightened in
the world at large.
Bob
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Bob Collier" <bobcollier@...>
wrote:
"In any work, you are going to use words to influence the
psychological life of an individual today; you are going to use words
to influence his organic life today; you are going to also influence
his psychological and organic life twenty years from now. So you had
better know what you are saying. You had better be willing to reflect
upon the words you use, to wonder what their meanings are, and to seek
out and understand their many associations."
Bob
wrote:
>"of California" :-)], Santa Cruz,
> NLP is the creation of John Grinder, when he was an assistant
> professor of linguistics at the University in California [should be
> and Richard Bandler, who was then a psychology student at theThis quote from Milton Erickson just turned up in my inbox:
> university. They began collaborating in 1972 to analyse the patterns
> of speech and behaviour of three famous therapists of the day - Fritz
> Perls, Viginia Satir and Milton Erickson -
"In any work, you are going to use words to influence the
psychological life of an individual today; you are going to use words
to influence his organic life today; you are going to also influence
his psychological and organic life twenty years from now. So you had
better know what you are saying. You had better be willing to reflect
upon the words you use, to wonder what their meanings are, and to seek
out and understand their many associations."
Bob
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "Bob Collier" <bobcollier@...> wrote:
http://www.parental-intelligence.com/ttoc.html
Bob
>It's now online at this page:
>
> I will be attending Keith Gilbert's The Technology of Choice workshop
> in Sydney over the weekend of February 21-22, so that I have a better
> grasp of the practicalities of NLP myself and can absorb more of its
> tools and techniques directly into my daily life. The Technology of
> Choice workshop was formerly his Neuro-Linguistic Parents workshop. A
> report on my experiences will appear in probably the March issue of my
> newsletter.
>
>
http://www.parental-intelligence.com/ttoc.html
Bob