consultation for money
Sandra Dodd
-=-...and offers
consultation for money. (thanks Sandra, for always putting out the
free stuff, your awesome website and your tireless effort to help
people be informed!)-=-
Thanks for helping, Jenny! And thanks to all of those who keep this
list rich and interesting.
There are several people offering consultation or coaching for
money. Some, it seems like a fine idea. Others, not so much. Some
people really do want individualized time and attention, though.
They want streamlined information and maybe they want strokes.
I promised a few weeks ago that I would bring this topic up on the
list, and just got busy and forgot. Please don't name names, but
let's talk about this a little bit, please.
There are two people flat out saying unschooling expert, who had kids
who went to school. But it's entirely possible to be an expert on
something without doing it. It's possible to be an expert on the
history of Judaism without being Jewish, and there are experts on the
geology of the Rocky Mountains who might not even live on the same
continent, let alone in the shadow of the Rockies.
Life coaching in general is a growing field, it seems. A coach
doesn't need to be a gold medalist, and a star athlete might not be a
good teacher/leader/inspiration. Someone can be involved for life in
something and never be the least bit analytical or communicative
about what they're doing.
Structured homeschoolers can make money by creating educational
materials and tests and charts and workbooks.
I have many scattery thoughts on the whole thing and I welcome chit
chat about it, but again, try not to name names or reveal anyone
particular.
Thanks,
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
consultation for money. (thanks Sandra, for always putting out the
free stuff, your awesome website and your tireless effort to help
people be informed!)-=-
Thanks for helping, Jenny! And thanks to all of those who keep this
list rich and interesting.
There are several people offering consultation or coaching for
money. Some, it seems like a fine idea. Others, not so much. Some
people really do want individualized time and attention, though.
They want streamlined information and maybe they want strokes.
I promised a few weeks ago that I would bring this topic up on the
list, and just got busy and forgot. Please don't name names, but
let's talk about this a little bit, please.
There are two people flat out saying unschooling expert, who had kids
who went to school. But it's entirely possible to be an expert on
something without doing it. It's possible to be an expert on the
history of Judaism without being Jewish, and there are experts on the
geology of the Rocky Mountains who might not even live on the same
continent, let alone in the shadow of the Rockies.
Life coaching in general is a growing field, it seems. A coach
doesn't need to be a gold medalist, and a star athlete might not be a
good teacher/leader/inspiration. Someone can be involved for life in
something and never be the least bit analytical or communicative
about what they're doing.
Structured homeschoolers can make money by creating educational
materials and tests and charts and workbooks.
I have many scattery thoughts on the whole thing and I welcome chit
chat about it, but again, try not to name names or reveal anyone
particular.
Thanks,
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
BRIAN POLIKOWSKY
I just wanted to point out that I called my friends Schuyler and Kelly as a friend- no maney involved.<BWG>
I called them because I needed a kick in the butt or an honest opinion.
I can sure count on them for their honesty. My other source of "counseling" is lurking here and there and reading Sandra and Joyce.
It was because of these women and others on the unschooling lists that have inspired me and that I am so thankful that I can read what they have to say.
Just readind Sandra's site is life changing in so many ways.
Thank you for all the time you freely put into it.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I called them because I needed a kick in the butt or an honest opinion.
I can sure count on them for their honesty. My other source of "counseling" is lurking here and there and reading Sandra and Joyce.
It was because of these women and others on the unschooling lists that have inspired me and that I am so thankful that I can read what they have to say.
Just readind Sandra's site is life changing in so many ways.
Thank you for all the time you freely put into it.
Alex Polikowsky
http://polykow.blogspot.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/unschoolingmn/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> There are several people offering consultation or coaching forOk, well here's one of my scattered thoughts about it...
> money.
> I have many scattery thoughts on the whole thing and I welcome chit
> chat about it, but again, try not to name names or reveal anyone
> particular.
>
When I was an undergrad working towards an art degree, I took a ton of
art classes. Art is very subjective, yet in school it needed to be
graded. So, part of the grading process was the critiquing process.
Ultimately this is what caused me to change degrees. The idea that I
needed to take advice from people I didn't know, or respect.
The whole coaching thing is a bit like that for me. Why would I want to
take advice from people I don't know, or know little to nothing about,
except what they've chosen to show me? Sure, if I know someone and
really respect what they have to say, I'll probably listen and take to
heart what the person is saying.
Much of the discussions about unschooling is anecdotal, yet it's real
and I feel like a know people that write on forums that I write on, and
some of them I DO know.
I like the idea of paying forward happy things and ideas. If someone is
charging money, they aren't paying forward, they're taking, even if they
have wonderful ideas that are worthy of monetary compensation. If
someone wants to share their ideas for money, why not write a book?
...and...
some other muddled thoughts...
guidance counselors are a bit like life coaches, and they're on a
payroll. Is this where the idea comes from? Or is it more along the
lines of non-religious advice? If you are a church goer and pay your
tithes, in some way you are paying for advice on how to live your life.
So, if you're not a religious person, you could hire a life coach for
much less than the cost of tithing (which is supposed to be about 10% of
your income).
Okay, that's all my thoughts for now because all the rest are really
unclear.
[email protected]
Still, after all these years of learning, my first thought is always kind of
a "grass is greener" kind of thing: someone who's an "expert" is charging
for something-that must mean I get a better product, a better end result,
*more* than what I'd get for less (or free). And then I think for a bit. :~) It
seems the older I get, the more I learn, the more I "wear in" unschooling-like
you wear in a new pair of jeans until they're formed to you, comfy and soft-,
the quicker I am to see this as either flawed thinking or maybe old tapes
running in my head. The more you pay for it, the better the quality. I think
that anymore, that's more of a coincidence. Not necessarily true most of the
time-not even a lot of the time. I think and wonder, but I am not willing (or
able, at the moment) to pay to find out if I do get "more" information or more
personalized information than I do for free on the few unschooling groups I
am on. Why should I? The free, heartfelt, honest ideas I have gotten at these
places have helped bring us to where we are today. I don't think 100x more
information could have gotten us here faster or better. I still keep a couple
of those contacts information tucked away for "just in case", but I don't ever
see me actually using them. I, too, would rather contact unschoolers I know
(but who shall remain unnamed in this discussion :~D ) to hash out specifics
or who know me and my family better than any paid consultant could, to get
help when I need it.
I know far too many unschoolers who are willing-even thrilled-to pass along
information for free. Good experiences, wonderful ideas, thoughtful advice...
In this case, I think the freely given is the better quality, really. Gee, I
think I'm ready to toss out that contact information for "pay consultation"
right *now*.
Peace,
De
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
a "grass is greener" kind of thing: someone who's an "expert" is charging
for something-that must mean I get a better product, a better end result,
*more* than what I'd get for less (or free). And then I think for a bit. :~) It
seems the older I get, the more I learn, the more I "wear in" unschooling-like
you wear in a new pair of jeans until they're formed to you, comfy and soft-,
the quicker I am to see this as either flawed thinking or maybe old tapes
running in my head. The more you pay for it, the better the quality. I think
that anymore, that's more of a coincidence. Not necessarily true most of the
time-not even a lot of the time. I think and wonder, but I am not willing (or
able, at the moment) to pay to find out if I do get "more" information or more
personalized information than I do for free on the few unschooling groups I
am on. Why should I? The free, heartfelt, honest ideas I have gotten at these
places have helped bring us to where we are today. I don't think 100x more
information could have gotten us here faster or better. I still keep a couple
of those contacts information tucked away for "just in case", but I don't ever
see me actually using them. I, too, would rather contact unschoolers I know
(but who shall remain unnamed in this discussion :~D ) to hash out specifics
or who know me and my family better than any paid consultant could, to get
help when I need it.
I know far too many unschoolers who are willing-even thrilled-to pass along
information for free. Good experiences, wonderful ideas, thoughtful advice...
In this case, I think the freely given is the better quality, really. Gee, I
think I'm ready to toss out that contact information for "pay consultation"
right *now*.
Peace,
De
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Ok. Here's my opinion. And I'll use non-unschooling examples.
Other than reading books, the most plentiful sources of information come
from enthusiastic volunteers. I just love a geek or a nerd, and to refer to
a person with those words is to compliment someone, in my view. If I had
the mind that hangs onto details, rather than be the global glosser of
details, I'd probably be one.
If I want to know why one Mac is better for my purposes than another, a geek
who really loves the chance to talk about such things is better than wading
through a book written or edited by even a whole group of experts. If I
know more than one such computer enthusiast, all the better.
Kinda like unschooling forums. How many unschoolers does it take to get
specific ideas pertinent to specific situations? I say the more the
merrier. I'd probably never have the money for all that expertise and
variety of experience.
That doesn't mean I'd never pay for advice though. I've bought books and
other unschooling materials. I've gone to unschooling events and given
money and bought things. I can think of some people whose time is very
scarce that I'd pay if I felt I needed to.
~Katherine
Other than reading books, the most plentiful sources of information come
from enthusiastic volunteers. I just love a geek or a nerd, and to refer to
a person with those words is to compliment someone, in my view. If I had
the mind that hangs onto details, rather than be the global glosser of
details, I'd probably be one.
If I want to know why one Mac is better for my purposes than another, a geek
who really loves the chance to talk about such things is better than wading
through a book written or edited by even a whole group of experts. If I
know more than one such computer enthusiast, all the better.
Kinda like unschooling forums. How many unschoolers does it take to get
specific ideas pertinent to specific situations? I say the more the
merrier. I'd probably never have the money for all that expertise and
variety of experience.
That doesn't mean I'd never pay for advice though. I've bought books and
other unschooling materials. I've gone to unschooling events and given
money and bought things. I can think of some people whose time is very
scarce that I'd pay if I felt I needed to.
~Katherine
On 12/14/08, Sandra Dodd wrote:
>
> -=-...and offers
> consultation for money. (thanks Sandra, for always putting out the
> free stuff, your awesome website and your tireless effort to help
> people be informed!)-=-
>
>
>
> Thanks for helping, Jenny! And thanks to all of those who keep this
> list rich and interesting.
>
> There are several people offering consultation or coaching for
> money. Some, it seems like a fine idea. Others, not so much. Some
> people really do want individualized time and attention, though.
> They want streamlined information and maybe they want strokes.
>
>
>
> I promised a few weeks ago that I would bring this topic up on the
> list, and just got busy and forgot. Please don't name names, but
> let's talk about this a little bit, please.
>
> There are two people flat out saying unschooling expert, who had kids
> who went to school. But it's entirely possible to be an expert on
> something without doing it. It's possible to be an expert on the
> history of Judaism without being Jewish, and there are experts on the
> geology of the Rocky Mountains who might not even live on the same
> continent, let alone in the shadow of the Rockies.
>
> Life coaching in general is a growing field, it seems. A coach
> doesn't need to be a gold medalist, and a star athlete might not be a
> good teacher/leader/inspiration. Someone can be involved for life in
> something and never be the least bit analytical or communicative
> about what they're doing.
>
> Structured homeschoolers can make money by creating educational
> materials and tests and charts and workbooks.
>
> I have many scattery thoughts on the whole thing and I welcome chit
> chat about it, but again, try not to name names or reveal anyone
> particular.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bea
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
far, so I'll share my thoughts.
I have paid for consultations for money. From a person who is a full
on radical unschooler (as far as I can tell) but whose kids are still
young-ish, and from another who is an unschooler and whose kids are
also still young-ish, but who is not full on "radical". I got a lot
from both.
For me, it's important to talk (I also get a lot from reading and
occasionally posting on this list and others, but sometimes I need to
be listened to and be given empathy, and get constructive but gentle
support.) Also, one big issue with me is that I am afraid of
"bothering" people, so paying for a consultation works for me because
I don't feel like I'm imposing on the other person for listening to my
problems.
As for getting advice from not completely radical unschoolers, I feel
that I'm smart enough and discriminating enough (and I'm confident
enough of my path) that I can take the advice I want, and leave the
rest.
Bea
> Life coaching in general is a growing field, it seems. A coachI have a slightly different opinion than the people who have posted so
> doesn't need to be a gold medalist, and a star athlete might not be a
> good teacher/leader/inspiration. Someone can be involved for life in
> something and never be the least bit analytical or communicative
> about what they're doing.
>
far, so I'll share my thoughts.
I have paid for consultations for money. From a person who is a full
on radical unschooler (as far as I can tell) but whose kids are still
young-ish, and from another who is an unschooler and whose kids are
also still young-ish, but who is not full on "radical". I got a lot
from both.
For me, it's important to talk (I also get a lot from reading and
occasionally posting on this list and others, but sometimes I need to
be listened to and be given empathy, and get constructive but gentle
support.) Also, one big issue with me is that I am afraid of
"bothering" people, so paying for a consultation works for me because
I don't feel like I'm imposing on the other person for listening to my
problems.
As for getting advice from not completely radical unschoolers, I feel
that I'm smart enough and discriminating enough (and I'm confident
enough of my path) that I can take the advice I want, and leave the
rest.
Bea
Sandra Dodd
--=-For me, it's important to talk (I also get a lot from reading and
occasionally posting on this list and others, but sometimes I need to
be listened to and be given empathy, and get constructive but gentle
support.) Also, one big issue with me is that I am afraid of
"bothering" people, so paying for a consultation works for me because
I don't feel like I'm imposing on the other person for listening to my
problems.
-=-As for getting advice from not completely radical unschoolers, I feel
that I'm smart enough and discriminating enough (and I'm confident
enough of my path) that I can take the advice I want, and leave the
rest.-=-
That helps me see it better, thanks. (Sorry I sent a blank before; I
deleted it from the archive.)
There are counsellors who are VERY helpful to some people and not so
much to others. That can't be helped. There are piano teachers and
guitar teachers, same way. Some people like or understand one kind
of help and some others don't.
I don't suppose many people will think someone who charges $50 for a
half hour knows twice as much as someone who charges $25, or
infinitely more than someone who's not charging anything.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
occasionally posting on this list and others, but sometimes I need to
be listened to and be given empathy, and get constructive but gentle
support.) Also, one big issue with me is that I am afraid of
"bothering" people, so paying for a consultation works for me because
I don't feel like I'm imposing on the other person for listening to my
problems.
-=-As for getting advice from not completely radical unschoolers, I feel
that I'm smart enough and discriminating enough (and I'm confident
enough of my path) that I can take the advice I want, and leave the
rest.-=-
That helps me see it better, thanks. (Sorry I sent a blank before; I
deleted it from the archive.)
There are counsellors who are VERY helpful to some people and not so
much to others. That can't be helped. There are piano teachers and
guitar teachers, same way. Some people like or understand one kind
of help and some others don't.
I don't suppose many people will think someone who charges $50 for a
half hour knows twice as much as someone who charges $25, or
infinitely more than someone who's not charging anything.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Dec 15, 2008, at 10:30 AM, Bea wrote:
on me for what I'd call "consulations" - they're calling with specific
issues and want my input and want to bounce ideas around and have
their own thinking challenged and they don't have a lot of support
for doing things the radical unschooling way and they want a dose of
that kind of support.
I do have concerns for people who are charging money for this kind of
thing. I understand it and have the urge to do it because there are
people I could help a lot more if I could talk to them individually
for a while. I think it is one thing to freely, mom-to-mom, offer
ideas or information or different ways to look at a problem in a "take-
it-or-leave-it" forum. But isn't it taking on a certain amount of
responsibility and even liability to charge money for giving parenting
advice? Psychiatrists and licensed counselors and others have
insurance for this reason, don't they? We're giving very
unconventional advice - what if their kid turns out to be a serial
killer or something? If they sue me, I think a judge might conclude I
was a quack who was giving very risky advice.
But, on the other hand, I tutor kids in math and I don't worry that
their parents might sue me if their kid still fails their math class.
I know what I'm offering is worth the money. So I am not sure why I
have so much more hesitancy about "life coaching" or consulting about
unschooling.
-pam
> Also, one big issue with me is that I am afraid ofI think this seems reasonable. I have a few long-time friends who call
> "bothering" people, so paying for a consultation works for me because
> I don't feel like I'm imposing on the other person for listening to my
> problems.
on me for what I'd call "consulations" - they're calling with specific
issues and want my input and want to bounce ideas around and have
their own thinking challenged and they don't have a lot of support
for doing things the radical unschooling way and they want a dose of
that kind of support.
I do have concerns for people who are charging money for this kind of
thing. I understand it and have the urge to do it because there are
people I could help a lot more if I could talk to them individually
for a while. I think it is one thing to freely, mom-to-mom, offer
ideas or information or different ways to look at a problem in a "take-
it-or-leave-it" forum. But isn't it taking on a certain amount of
responsibility and even liability to charge money for giving parenting
advice? Psychiatrists and licensed counselors and others have
insurance for this reason, don't they? We're giving very
unconventional advice - what if their kid turns out to be a serial
killer or something? If they sue me, I think a judge might conclude I
was a quack who was giving very risky advice.
But, on the other hand, I tutor kids in math and I don't worry that
their parents might sue me if their kid still fails their math class.
I know what I'm offering is worth the money. So I am not sure why I
have so much more hesitancy about "life coaching" or consulting about
unschooling.
-pam
M Walker
This is an interesting topic. Here in my little corner of New Jersey, people often tell me that I should start a business and charge money for the advice and information and help I give to other homeschoolers. And I sputter back, "But I'm just quoting Sandra or Pam or Joyce or the message boards or the dozens of books I've read!"
Apparently, what I'm quite good at is combing through the information I've gleaned over the years and organizing it in a way that helps that particular person at that particular time. Honestly, I give all the credit to others! I insist that the ideas I'm suggesting are NOT my original thoughts. I cite that famous quote about standing on the shoulders of giants.
But it seems that some people are not good at reading to learn new information--they'd rather talk with someone about it. Or that they have trouble putting a snippet from a book together with something they read on a message board and seeing that the two things together would address a particular issue. Or they're missing the forest for the trees in their particular situation, and benefit from the fresh view of an outsider.
My husband points out to me that doctors have read books and taken classes and followed mentors around hospitals. And then they charge money for helping sick people. So, how is what I do, quite informally, any different?
At times, I have handed someone a list of my favorite books, or even just one book title that I think addresses her concerns. And her face falls and she looks sadly at me, and asks if I can't just help her. She doesn't want to read a book at that point--or maybe ever at any point!
So, it does seem to me that there are people who want and would pay for the knowledge that a consultant would have to share. But then I come back to the fact that the information I have to share is not MINE, and I know I would feel guilty and dishonest for charging money for it!
- Meg
Apparently, what I'm quite good at is combing through the information I've gleaned over the years and organizing it in a way that helps that particular person at that particular time. Honestly, I give all the credit to others! I insist that the ideas I'm suggesting are NOT my original thoughts. I cite that famous quote about standing on the shoulders of giants.
But it seems that some people are not good at reading to learn new information--they'd rather talk with someone about it. Or that they have trouble putting a snippet from a book together with something they read on a message board and seeing that the two things together would address a particular issue. Or they're missing the forest for the trees in their particular situation, and benefit from the fresh view of an outsider.
My husband points out to me that doctors have read books and taken classes and followed mentors around hospitals. And then they charge money for helping sick people. So, how is what I do, quite informally, any different?
At times, I have handed someone a list of my favorite books, or even just one book title that I think addresses her concerns. And her face falls and she looks sadly at me, and asks if I can't just help her. She doesn't want to read a book at that point--or maybe ever at any point!
So, it does seem to me that there are people who want and would pay for the knowledge that a consultant would have to share. But then I come back to the fact that the information I have to share is not MINE, and I know I would feel guilty and dishonest for charging money for it!
- Meg
Sandra Dodd
-=-But it seems that some people are not good at reading to learn new
information--they'd rather talk with someone about it. Or that they
have trouble putting a snippet from a book together with something
they read on a message board and seeing that the two things together
would address a particular issue. Or they're missing the forest for
the trees in their particular situation, and benefit from the fresh
view of an outsider.-=-
I think this is true. The people who deal well with this list are
probably those who are big on logic and verbal intelligence (one or
both of those) and who appeciate the subtle tweaking of ideas. But
lots of people don't care about those two kinds of thought, or
they're just not their favorites.
-=-But then I come back to the fact that the information I have to
share is not MINE, and I know I would feel guilty and dishonest for
charging money for it!-=-
I occasionally go to a cognitive therapist I just love and she's
super helpful to me and I don't have to start from scratch because
the first time I went to talk to her Kirby was just nearly a year
old, so she had notes on me and knows my longterm situation even
though she doesn't expect or want me to go to counseling "long
term." The ideas she uses are not hers, but they've become hers
through her experience. She has learned from other ideas and then
created her own tools from that.
There's very little I know that someone else didn't know before.
Sometimes I discovered it separately and sometimes I took an idea and
tried it out in my real life and saw a new way to describe it. But
what I have that some other people don't have is years of experience
with my kids and other people's families and kids, and I've seen what
can go wrong, and what can go wonderfully well.
I appreciate this discussion. Thanks for the ideas, and I hope it
will continue.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
information--they'd rather talk with someone about it. Or that they
have trouble putting a snippet from a book together with something
they read on a message board and seeing that the two things together
would address a particular issue. Or they're missing the forest for
the trees in their particular situation, and benefit from the fresh
view of an outsider.-=-
I think this is true. The people who deal well with this list are
probably those who are big on logic and verbal intelligence (one or
both of those) and who appeciate the subtle tweaking of ideas. But
lots of people don't care about those two kinds of thought, or
they're just not their favorites.
-=-But then I come back to the fact that the information I have to
share is not MINE, and I know I would feel guilty and dishonest for
charging money for it!-=-
I occasionally go to a cognitive therapist I just love and she's
super helpful to me and I don't have to start from scratch because
the first time I went to talk to her Kirby was just nearly a year
old, so she had notes on me and knows my longterm situation even
though she doesn't expect or want me to go to counseling "long
term." The ideas she uses are not hers, but they've become hers
through her experience. She has learned from other ideas and then
created her own tools from that.
There's very little I know that someone else didn't know before.
Sometimes I discovered it separately and sometimes I took an idea and
tried it out in my real life and saw a new way to describe it. But
what I have that some other people don't have is years of experience
with my kids and other people's families and kids, and I've seen what
can go wrong, and what can go wonderfully well.
I appreciate this discussion. Thanks for the ideas, and I hope it
will continue.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
>>>>But, on the other hand, I tutor kids in math and I don't worry thattheir parents might sue me if their kid still fails their math class.
I know what I'm offering is worth the money. So I am not sure why I
have so much more hesitancy about "life coaching" or consulting about
unschooling.<<<<
Failing math and failing life are two very different things.
I personally don't think responsibility should necessarily be there unless
the person giving advice were asking for some kind of allegiance or
demanding a following from those asking for help.
Charging money is not the same thing as counseling. Some people make take
it that way though. Advice seekers may feel that they can wholehearted rely
on advice givers without taking into much consideration the importance of
the choices involved in following advice.
I'm uncomfortable with the concept of advice in the first place, personally.
Much of that is due to my inability to see expertise as limited to a few in
the profession. There are doctors, counselors, nurses, lawyers among others
whose expertise I would never rely on in a million years because I disagree
strongly with their expert views. There are people in the same professions
who opinion I respect though, and my choice to trust their expert opinion is
based on the choices I've made about the principles they (seem to) follow
that I agree with.
~Katherine
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k
Something I want to pull out about advice to be careful about (especially if
you're being paid). If I were to give advice based on facts and personal
experience, and not be quite sure if what I'm saying is true, I would feel
responsible (even if I weren't being paid) were my factoids to mess somebody
up even if I didn't mean it to be relied on quite so heavily. I think
that's where litigation would definitely be problematic: when facts aren't
for sure, and people are for real about what's being said to such an extent.
Opinions are a whole different ball game though.
Much that has to do with advice has to do with questions about the
difference between fact and opinion.
Another thing about charging money not being the same as advice or
counseling--- Often people are not aware their words could be construed as
advice when in their own minds it seems they're simply sharing their
experiences with others, much the way some might feel that writing a book is
a way to talk about experiences. Communicating (for pay or not) can often
feel that way to the one who is talking about their own experiences.
Whether it could be viewed as fact or personal perspective may not even be
considered really.
A big reason some people *never* write anything ... for fear it will become
semi-permanent and later be shown as not quite right.
~Katherine
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you're being paid). If I were to give advice based on facts and personal
experience, and not be quite sure if what I'm saying is true, I would feel
responsible (even if I weren't being paid) were my factoids to mess somebody
up even if I didn't mean it to be relied on quite so heavily. I think
that's where litigation would definitely be problematic: when facts aren't
for sure, and people are for real about what's being said to such an extent.
Opinions are a whole different ball game though.
Much that has to do with advice has to do with questions about the
difference between fact and opinion.
Another thing about charging money not being the same as advice or
counseling--- Often people are not aware their words could be construed as
advice when in their own minds it seems they're simply sharing their
experiences with others, much the way some might feel that writing a book is
a way to talk about experiences. Communicating (for pay or not) can often
feel that way to the one who is talking about their own experiences.
Whether it could be viewed as fact or personal perspective may not even be
considered really.
A big reason some people *never* write anything ... for fear it will become
semi-permanent and later be shown as not quite right.
~Katherine
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Jill Parmer
My thoughts around this are scattered; I see all of Sandra's points
about coaching, and experts at something. But there's something that
doesn't sit right with me about this.
When I'm at a stuck and want some ideas right away, I search at
Sandradodd.com, joyfullyrejoycing, or this list, and I've always come
up with something to ponder or action to take that I can do right
away. I feel capable and smart and powerful in my life when I wrestle
with problems and come to solutions. I think I would feel like I'm
giving away my power and abilities if I paid someone to come up with
the answers for me, and the same for someone paving the path for me.
I do have friends that will problem solve with me, and we toss around
lots of ideas, so I'm
about coaching, and experts at something. But there's something that
doesn't sit right with me about this.
When I'm at a stuck and want some ideas right away, I search at
Sandradodd.com, joyfullyrejoycing, or this list, and I've always come
up with something to ponder or action to take that I can do right
away. I feel capable and smart and powerful in my life when I wrestle
with problems and come to solutions. I think I would feel like I'm
giving away my power and abilities if I paid someone to come up with
the answers for me, and the same for someone paving the path for me.
I do have friends that will problem solve with me, and we toss around
lots of ideas, so I'm
On Dec 14, 2008, at 7:55 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
> There are two people flat out saying unschooling expert, who had kids
> who went to school. But it's entirely possible to be an expert on
> something without doing it. It's possible to be an expert on the
> history of Judaism without being Jewish, and there are experts on the
> geology of the Rocky Mountains who might not even live on the same
> continent, let alone in the shadow of the Rockies.
True. Although, when I want information from someone, I feel like
I'm getting the real deal from, or give more credence to people that
aren't only book experts but have first hand experience and longevity
and successes that show what they've been discussing and saying for
years.
So far there's nothing I need from the people I've seen charging for
unschooling information. I have a little resentment that there are
people who've written seemingly tirelessly about unschooling for
years for free, and then some people come along and start charging
for it.
>
>
> Life coaching in general is a growing field, it seems. A coach
> doesn't need to be a gold medalist, and a star athlete might not be a
> good teacher/leader/inspiration. Someone can be involved for life in
> something and never be the least bit analytical or communicative
> about what they're doing.
I've not ever been trusting of the idea of life coaches. I think
life is for living and playing and trying things out and falling on
my face and getting up and going again. I don't think people need to
pay a coach for their own life. I think it takes away from building
confidence.
The two people that I've known that've become coaches are in need of
lots of therapy or coaching themselves. And I find it rather ironic
that they get paid for coaching others.
>
>
> Structured homeschoolers can make money by creating educational
> materials and tests and charts and workbooks.
>
> I have many scattery thoughts on the whole thing and I welcome chit
> chat about it
I think some things should be passed on freely quilting, knitting,
and for some reason unschooling information sits in that place in my
brain.
I have a friend that wants hand holding for near everything she
does. She calls friends for every barely important decision she
makes. And she pays lots of money for psychotherapy for herself and
kids, for things like, should I get my kid a cell phone. She'll
fight with her husband about raking leaves in the fall and spend time
and money at the therapist arguing about that, spending more than she
would by hiring someone to come clean the yard.
On one pay for unschooling information site there are links to other
coaches. I know one of those people personally. She's asked me for
advice on more than several occasions. What I gave to the
conversation was stuff that I learned on the freely available
unschooling lists.
There's something about paying money for what I believe should be
discussions, and a grappling with ideas to find your way, that I
can't put my finger on. (I've written this response without reading
the others, so maybe I'll find what that is when I go back and read
the responses.)
~Jill (Addi 14, Luke 10; been reading about and working toward
applying unschooling ideas since April 2002)
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