Unschooling and eclectic homeschooling expert
Bob Collier
Just been reading this article (actually podcast transcript):
Unschooling and eclectic homeschooling
http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/natural-moms-podcast-105/
No idea who this lady is. I'm kind of curious to know what people here
make of it (note my comment at the bottom).
Bob
Unschooling and eclectic homeschooling
http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/natural-moms-podcast-105/
No idea who this lady is. I'm kind of curious to know what people here
make of it (note my comment at the bottom).
Bob
Dan Lake
It's very long so I'll have to finish reading it tonight. The misspelled
words are quite distracting, especially considering the topic of the
transcript is education. She could benefit from a proofreader.
"How do you know without testing that they're really going to be with their
piers?"
I don't know.. measure their distance to the water?
Thanks for the link,
~Dan
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:58 AM, Bob Collier <
bobcollier@...> wrote:
words are quite distracting, especially considering the topic of the
transcript is education. She could benefit from a proofreader.
"How do you know without testing that they're really going to be with their
piers?"
I don't know.. measure their distance to the water?
Thanks for the link,
~Dan
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:58 AM, Bob Collier <
bobcollier@...> wrote:
> Just been reading this article (actually podcast transcript):[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Unschooling and eclectic homeschooling
> http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/natural-moms-podcast-105/
>
> No idea who this lady is. I'm kind of curious to know what people here
> make of it (note my comment at the bottom).
>
> Bob
>
>
>
Sandra Dodd
When I first came to homeschooling discussions online I had only read
Growing Without Schooling and Teach Your Own, and I knew some
homeschooling families. I was surprised at how thrilled one mom was
to describe her unschooling. She didn't mind whether her son sat on
the couch to read or in the yard! It didn't have to be at the kitchen
table.
This paragraph from that Bob sent made me think of that:
-=-But what you find on this spectrum is what we call school at home
on one end, which is what I just described, and then on the other end
is the opposite. It�s more of a bottom up rather than a top down.
It�s actually engaging your children in a discussion, where you want
to check to see what is their learning style? Do they learn better
when they�re jumping on the trampoline reciting the multiplication
facts, or when they�re sitting with a workbook and memorizing flash
cards and that sort of thing? What is the learning style? What are
your children�s goals? What do they want to accomplish with their
life?-=-
It doesn't matter what a child's goals are or what they want to
accomplish. Odds are they haven't thought about it, or if they have
an idea or a plan it will change. Marty used to want to be a police
officer. I treated it as a serious any-minute-now goal, but Keith
wanted me to discourage it. It didn't matter either way, except
that with support and being treated as someone who had a possible
plan, it was all Marty's decision and doing when he changed his mind
later.
It doesn't matter whether a particular kid learns better while
jumping or humming or writing or listening to music, if you aren't in
a hurry to stuff him with facts, and if you don't have rules against
jumping, humming, writing or listening to music. And it's really
none of my business what my children's "learning styles" are. That
concept is probably twenty years old or more, and was all the rage
among educators for a while in the 1980's. Most people learn
different things different ways anyway, so if someone is "a visual
learner" she won't learn from a headset and a droning voice. But it
also doesn't mean she will learn everything in the world if she can
see pictures on paper. She might learn NOTHING if she doesn't have
any idea what people are showing her pictures of, or why, or if she
can't see the things in motion instead of flat and still, and
probably EVERYone would do better if they could see a real example
and moving pictures and still pictures, and hear about it, and maybe
hear and touch and taste and smell.
So unschooling works no matter what "learning style" or eventual
goals any child has. Provide a rich environment and encouragement
and hang out with them to answer their questions and provide them
with more stuff and ideas and they'll learn.
That's one part. I might get to other parts. It's kind of daunting
in its length, I agree with Dan.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Growing Without Schooling and Teach Your Own, and I knew some
homeschooling families. I was surprised at how thrilled one mom was
to describe her unschooling. She didn't mind whether her son sat on
the couch to read or in the yard! It didn't have to be at the kitchen
table.
This paragraph from that Bob sent made me think of that:
-=-But what you find on this spectrum is what we call school at home
on one end, which is what I just described, and then on the other end
is the opposite. It�s more of a bottom up rather than a top down.
It�s actually engaging your children in a discussion, where you want
to check to see what is their learning style? Do they learn better
when they�re jumping on the trampoline reciting the multiplication
facts, or when they�re sitting with a workbook and memorizing flash
cards and that sort of thing? What is the learning style? What are
your children�s goals? What do they want to accomplish with their
life?-=-
It doesn't matter what a child's goals are or what they want to
accomplish. Odds are they haven't thought about it, or if they have
an idea or a plan it will change. Marty used to want to be a police
officer. I treated it as a serious any-minute-now goal, but Keith
wanted me to discourage it. It didn't matter either way, except
that with support and being treated as someone who had a possible
plan, it was all Marty's decision and doing when he changed his mind
later.
It doesn't matter whether a particular kid learns better while
jumping or humming or writing or listening to music, if you aren't in
a hurry to stuff him with facts, and if you don't have rules against
jumping, humming, writing or listening to music. And it's really
none of my business what my children's "learning styles" are. That
concept is probably twenty years old or more, and was all the rage
among educators for a while in the 1980's. Most people learn
different things different ways anyway, so if someone is "a visual
learner" she won't learn from a headset and a droning voice. But it
also doesn't mean she will learn everything in the world if she can
see pictures on paper. She might learn NOTHING if she doesn't have
any idea what people are showing her pictures of, or why, or if she
can't see the things in motion instead of flat and still, and
probably EVERYone would do better if they could see a real example
and moving pictures and still pictures, and hear about it, and maybe
hear and touch and taste and smell.
So unschooling works no matter what "learning style" or eventual
goals any child has. Provide a rich environment and encouragement
and hang out with them to answer their questions and provide them
with more stuff and ideas and they'll learn.
That's one part. I might get to other parts. It's kind of daunting
in its length, I agree with Dan.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
This is further comment on what Bob Collier found and brought:
http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/natural-moms-podcast-105/
-=-Some kids, at a very young age, know very clearly what they want
to be when they grow up, and they never change that. You want to
give them the honour and recognition that it is important that they
are part of this decision.-=-
Is it really honoring a child to say "Oh. Okay. You want to be a
ballerina," and then gearing all their lives toward that stated goal!?
That paragraph kinda gave me a chill and made me think government
school was a FANTASTIC idea in treating kids in such ways that any of
them might want to be anything when they're older, so they all should
know how some history, math, science, geography, writing... (I
remembered the bad parts of assembly line school and grading pretty
quickly, but I think the plan of having a toddler "declare a major"
is worse.)
There are adults who were channeled or shunted toward "air force
pilot" or "Olympic swimmer" or "doctor" and they get to the age of 30
and for the first time they look around and wonder what they want to
do now that the parent-powered assembly line has slowed down.
Another quote from the transcript:
-=-What happens with the school system is that there�s a mass
educational technique, because when you have 30 kids and one teacher,
you can only make them all do the same thing at the same time. So
that model has been followed even right into the home. It�s
something that at least needs to be looked at and questioned before
deciding how you�re going to homeschool.-=-
So she's talking about an individualized curriculum aimed at a small
target.
I don't think her definition of "eclectic" describes anything I've
ever heard, except "contract learning," which is a school-reform
concept from the late 1960's. It was used some at the University of
New Mexico (one could contract to get a B, at the beginning of the
course, for example, and the requirements were different from those
who wanted to get an A).
I like this part:
-=-But also to understand that we�re just temporary guardians of
these children. They are their own person, and they come into the
world with gifts and talents and abilities and all kinds of knowledge
that they�ve brought in with them. Our job is just to nurture them,
and guide them, and help to expose them to what is available in this
lifetime, in this experience, in this world that they�ve come in to.
It�s more like a guide, not a dictator.-=-
-=-I think through the years, the schools have gotten this concept of
unschooling, and are now offering it through the school system to
keep these dollars flowing through the system. -=-
The concept of unschooling came from the schools first. It was
called "The Open Classroom," and John Holt was well familiar with
it. We unschoolers now who have truly and fully done it for the
whole upbringing of people who are now adults have gone further than
"open classroom" could because we weren't bound by physical buildings
and school schedules and funding and interpersonal problems and our
kids weren't affected by the measures and competition and other-kids
nonsense that even the best of school reform couldn't eliminate.
-=-I think children are just as different as adults. Some are very
self disciplined. I�ve seen the whole gamut of kids that are
completely unstructured and really need to have somebody keeping
them on task by their own admittance and by their own request. Other
students are extremely self disciplined from day one. I�ll ask them
what they�re going to do now that they�re not in school anymore, -=-
Here's a telling slip-up:
-=-I think children are just as different as adults. Some are very
self disciplined. I�ve seen the whole gamut of kids that are
completely unstructured and really need to have somebody keeping
them on task by their own admittance and by their own request. Other
students are extremely self disciplined from day one. I�ll ask them
what they�re going to do now that they�re not in school anymore, -=-
"STUDENTS." She's probably talking about people enrolled in her
school, and then they are students and will have the tuition receipts
to prove it. And the unschooling she seems perhaps to be selling, I
would call "contract learning" and "individualized programs."
-=-He would love to stay up until midnight every night, but I see the
dark circles and the impatience with his little brother that he�ll
have the next day. So I have to put some boundaries on that kind of
behavior. But not when it comes to his learning at all.-=-
If they decide they want to learn more about what they "have to" do
and what will happen if kids are allowed to stay up late, they're
welcome to come to this list. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://naturalmomstalkradio.com/blog/natural-moms-podcast-105/
-=-Some kids, at a very young age, know very clearly what they want
to be when they grow up, and they never change that. You want to
give them the honour and recognition that it is important that they
are part of this decision.-=-
Is it really honoring a child to say "Oh. Okay. You want to be a
ballerina," and then gearing all their lives toward that stated goal!?
That paragraph kinda gave me a chill and made me think government
school was a FANTASTIC idea in treating kids in such ways that any of
them might want to be anything when they're older, so they all should
know how some history, math, science, geography, writing... (I
remembered the bad parts of assembly line school and grading pretty
quickly, but I think the plan of having a toddler "declare a major"
is worse.)
There are adults who were channeled or shunted toward "air force
pilot" or "Olympic swimmer" or "doctor" and they get to the age of 30
and for the first time they look around and wonder what they want to
do now that the parent-powered assembly line has slowed down.
Another quote from the transcript:
-=-What happens with the school system is that there�s a mass
educational technique, because when you have 30 kids and one teacher,
you can only make them all do the same thing at the same time. So
that model has been followed even right into the home. It�s
something that at least needs to be looked at and questioned before
deciding how you�re going to homeschool.-=-
So she's talking about an individualized curriculum aimed at a small
target.
I don't think her definition of "eclectic" describes anything I've
ever heard, except "contract learning," which is a school-reform
concept from the late 1960's. It was used some at the University of
New Mexico (one could contract to get a B, at the beginning of the
course, for example, and the requirements were different from those
who wanted to get an A).
I like this part:
-=-But also to understand that we�re just temporary guardians of
these children. They are their own person, and they come into the
world with gifts and talents and abilities and all kinds of knowledge
that they�ve brought in with them. Our job is just to nurture them,
and guide them, and help to expose them to what is available in this
lifetime, in this experience, in this world that they�ve come in to.
It�s more like a guide, not a dictator.-=-
-=-I think through the years, the schools have gotten this concept of
unschooling, and are now offering it through the school system to
keep these dollars flowing through the system. -=-
The concept of unschooling came from the schools first. It was
called "The Open Classroom," and John Holt was well familiar with
it. We unschoolers now who have truly and fully done it for the
whole upbringing of people who are now adults have gone further than
"open classroom" could because we weren't bound by physical buildings
and school schedules and funding and interpersonal problems and our
kids weren't affected by the measures and competition and other-kids
nonsense that even the best of school reform couldn't eliminate.
-=-I think children are just as different as adults. Some are very
self disciplined. I�ve seen the whole gamut of kids that are
completely unstructured and really need to have somebody keeping
them on task by their own admittance and by their own request. Other
students are extremely self disciplined from day one. I�ll ask them
what they�re going to do now that they�re not in school anymore, -=-
Here's a telling slip-up:
-=-I think children are just as different as adults. Some are very
self disciplined. I�ve seen the whole gamut of kids that are
completely unstructured and really need to have somebody keeping
them on task by their own admittance and by their own request. Other
students are extremely self disciplined from day one. I�ll ask them
what they�re going to do now that they�re not in school anymore, -=-
"STUDENTS." She's probably talking about people enrolled in her
school, and then they are students and will have the tuition receipts
to prove it. And the unschooling she seems perhaps to be selling, I
would call "contract learning" and "individualized programs."
-=-He would love to stay up until midnight every night, but I see the
dark circles and the impatience with his little brother that he�ll
have the next day. So I have to put some boundaries on that kind of
behavior. But not when it comes to his learning at all.-=-
If they decide they want to learn more about what they "have to" do
and what will happen if kids are allowed to stay up late, they're
welcome to come to this list. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Today we're having Thanksgiving elsewhere. Yesterday I made butter
and today I'm making bread (one batch is in the oven and the other is
rising) and some orange/cranberry relish. Tadaa! Easy Thanksgiving.
So I have time to read the interview transcript and here's some more
commentary. We could make a month on this stuff if we were out of
real stuff to talk about here!
-=-If the child chooses to do a math book and wants to get through it
from beginning to end, that’s okay, it’s still unschooling. If he
chooses to go to public school for four years of high school, that’s
still unschooling. Why? Because it’s the child’s choosing.-=-
Prior to that, the interviewer AND interviewee were badmouthing
unschoolers letting their kids make choices. I've never defined
unschooling as "letting a child choose," but my kids do have lots of
choices. Tens of thousands over the course of a year, probably. If
my children chose public school or math books beginning to end, they
would still be choosing, but they would be choosing not to unschool.
What a weird little idea-trap it is to say "It's still unschooling as
long as the child wants to attend a Swiss boarding school for twelve
years."
[oh crap; I wrote the above, and then read two paragraphs down and
found this:]
-=-Then in seventh grade, she went off to another state and went to a
boarding school for the entire seventh grade and part of eighth
grade. -=-
-=-So now, as an almost 15 year old going into grade 11, she kind of
got ahead of herself, -=-
Early in the transcript they were disparaging the question of people
keeping up with others their age, so how can a child be "ahead of
herself"? I guess they meant ahead of other kids.
Very inconsistent. Lack of focus and clarity, but maybe a fine focus
on spreading the idea that anything and everything is as good as
anything and everything else, so that someone can make money running
a school to help people homeschool. By accepting money, she makes
herself "an expert." And if an expert says unschooling is this or
that, and people paid her to say so, what does that do for people
like me, and Joyce? We're not experts.
-=- So unschooling doesn’t have any look. -=-
Clearly it doesn't to her. That came from the center of this paragraph:
-=-All these things, it doesn’t matter if the child is in college
classes, some students take college classes, and they’re still
unschooling. So unschooling doesn’t have any look. Like school at
home, you think of kids sitting at the kitchen table, doing bookwork.
That’s more of a look.-=-
-=-But our job is not to teach. It’s to facilitate the learning
experiences, connecting our children to the right people and the
right experiences, that will be their teachers.-=-
She still can't conceive of there not *being* teachers, but it's
better not to, if you're charging money to reassure people that you
can help them be or find teachers.
-=-Let’s be a little forgiving to ourselves, too. Most of us have
not grown up as homeschoolers or unschoolers, we’ve grown up through
the system-=-
I assume she's going to tell people her daughter was homeschooled, or
maybe that she was unschooled, even though she described her
daughter's experience as starting off homeschooling, going to a
charter school, boarding school, homeschooled for a few months,
public high school, school-sponsored homeschool program, and now
travelling while "having to" keep a journal every day and write to
her mom every day so they an make an eleventh grade transcript. It's
sounds fun to me, to have had all those experiences, but it doesn't
make her mom knowledgeable about unschooling as it actually plays out
in the long run.
She also said
-=-With your first child you take that leap, and it starts to turn
out okay, and so your second child, okay, that’s better.. And by the
time the third one or the fourth or the fifth comes along, you feel
like “Okay, I know what I’m doing.” And yet each one is different, so
it’s never going to be a pattern, it’s always going to be unique and
different and challenging.-=-
She has one child, it seems.
I didn't change what I did with Marty and Holly. I figured out
something early on (found people who had already figured out most of
it) that would work with anyone, and I worked to understand it and
I've stuck with it.
OOOooooooh... Ooh. Yikes.
On her website, the business she runs (a private ISP cover school in
California) it says:
I'm Peggy Webb, director of the Academy, a 20-year homeschooling
veteran and an unschooling specialist.
Her daughter is fifteen. How does that make her a 20 year
homeschooling veteran?
Okay, Bob. I read it. Kinda depressing. But my kids are here and
happy and other people's misconceptions don't change their lives!
Sandra
and today I'm making bread (one batch is in the oven and the other is
rising) and some orange/cranberry relish. Tadaa! Easy Thanksgiving.
So I have time to read the interview transcript and here's some more
commentary. We could make a month on this stuff if we were out of
real stuff to talk about here!
-=-If the child chooses to do a math book and wants to get through it
from beginning to end, that’s okay, it’s still unschooling. If he
chooses to go to public school for four years of high school, that’s
still unschooling. Why? Because it’s the child’s choosing.-=-
Prior to that, the interviewer AND interviewee were badmouthing
unschoolers letting their kids make choices. I've never defined
unschooling as "letting a child choose," but my kids do have lots of
choices. Tens of thousands over the course of a year, probably. If
my children chose public school or math books beginning to end, they
would still be choosing, but they would be choosing not to unschool.
What a weird little idea-trap it is to say "It's still unschooling as
long as the child wants to attend a Swiss boarding school for twelve
years."
[oh crap; I wrote the above, and then read two paragraphs down and
found this:]
-=-Then in seventh grade, she went off to another state and went to a
boarding school for the entire seventh grade and part of eighth
grade. -=-
-=-So now, as an almost 15 year old going into grade 11, she kind of
got ahead of herself, -=-
Early in the transcript they were disparaging the question of people
keeping up with others their age, so how can a child be "ahead of
herself"? I guess they meant ahead of other kids.
Very inconsistent. Lack of focus and clarity, but maybe a fine focus
on spreading the idea that anything and everything is as good as
anything and everything else, so that someone can make money running
a school to help people homeschool. By accepting money, she makes
herself "an expert." And if an expert says unschooling is this or
that, and people paid her to say so, what does that do for people
like me, and Joyce? We're not experts.
-=- So unschooling doesn’t have any look. -=-
Clearly it doesn't to her. That came from the center of this paragraph:
-=-All these things, it doesn’t matter if the child is in college
classes, some students take college classes, and they’re still
unschooling. So unschooling doesn’t have any look. Like school at
home, you think of kids sitting at the kitchen table, doing bookwork.
That’s more of a look.-=-
-=-But our job is not to teach. It’s to facilitate the learning
experiences, connecting our children to the right people and the
right experiences, that will be their teachers.-=-
She still can't conceive of there not *being* teachers, but it's
better not to, if you're charging money to reassure people that you
can help them be or find teachers.
-=-Let’s be a little forgiving to ourselves, too. Most of us have
not grown up as homeschoolers or unschoolers, we’ve grown up through
the system-=-
I assume she's going to tell people her daughter was homeschooled, or
maybe that she was unschooled, even though she described her
daughter's experience as starting off homeschooling, going to a
charter school, boarding school, homeschooled for a few months,
public high school, school-sponsored homeschool program, and now
travelling while "having to" keep a journal every day and write to
her mom every day so they an make an eleventh grade transcript. It's
sounds fun to me, to have had all those experiences, but it doesn't
make her mom knowledgeable about unschooling as it actually plays out
in the long run.
She also said
-=-With your first child you take that leap, and it starts to turn
out okay, and so your second child, okay, that’s better.. And by the
time the third one or the fourth or the fifth comes along, you feel
like “Okay, I know what I’m doing.” And yet each one is different, so
it’s never going to be a pattern, it’s always going to be unique and
different and challenging.-=-
She has one child, it seems.
I didn't change what I did with Marty and Holly. I figured out
something early on (found people who had already figured out most of
it) that would work with anyone, and I worked to understand it and
I've stuck with it.
OOOooooooh... Ooh. Yikes.
On her website, the business she runs (a private ISP cover school in
California) it says:
I'm Peggy Webb, director of the Academy, a 20-year homeschooling
veteran and an unschooling specialist.
Her daughter is fifteen. How does that make her a 20 year
homeschooling veteran?
Okay, Bob. I read it. Kinda depressing. But my kids are here and
happy and other people's misconceptions don't change their lives!
Sandra
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
confused in places.
Thanks.
Bob
>I appreciate your thoughts. It did seem to me quite confusing and
>
> Okay, Bob. I read it. Kinda depressing. But my kids are here and
> happy and other people's misconceptions don't change their lives!
>
> Sandra
>
confused in places.
Thanks.
Bob
claire.horsley08
Sandra, it was great to read your analysis of this person's ideas because you clearly
demonstrated how muddied and half-realised her conception of unschooling is. And as the
director of a private academy it's not hard to see why a schooled mentality permeates her
entire argument, even down to the terminology - 'students', 'transcripts', 'Math', etc. This
part of the transcript leapt out at me :
- she claimed that radical unschoolers treat children as adults, "without boundaries". This
seems to be one of those mainstream parenting catchphrases - 'children need boundaries!'.
But in an unschooling family, children and adults are bound by the same things - mutual love
and respect, collaborative relationships, having fun - not silly and superficial things like set
bedtimes. Both the interviewer and interviewee seemed quite keen on 'household rules', and
they probably feel like they are being responsible parents and creating the structure that
children supposedly need. But why can't the structure be a peaceful, loving and stimulating
nest, rather than rigid rules?
demonstrated how muddied and half-realised her conception of unschooling is. And as the
director of a private academy it's not hard to see why a schooled mentality permeates her
entire argument, even down to the terminology - 'students', 'transcripts', 'Math', etc. This
part of the transcript leapt out at me :
- she claimed that radical unschoolers treat children as adults, "without boundaries". This
seems to be one of those mainstream parenting catchphrases - 'children need boundaries!'.
But in an unschooling family, children and adults are bound by the same things - mutual love
and respect, collaborative relationships, having fun - not silly and superficial things like set
bedtimes. Both the interviewer and interviewee seemed quite keen on 'household rules', and
they probably feel like they are being responsible parents and creating the structure that
children supposedly need. But why can't the structure be a peaceful, loving and stimulating
nest, rather than rigid rules?
saturnfire16
>adults, "without boundaries". This
> - she claimed that radical unschoolers treat children as
> seems to be one of those mainstream parenting catchphrases -'children need boundaries!'.
> But in an unschooling family, children and adults are bound by thesame things - mutual love
> and respect, collaborative relationships, having fun - not sillyand superficial things like set
> bedtimes. Both the interviewer and interviewee seemed quite keenon 'household rules', and
> they probably feel like they are being responsible parents andcreating the structure that
> children supposedly need. But why can't the structure be apeaceful, loving and stimulating
> nest, rather than rigid rules?I just read a book called Boundaries. It defines boundaries as what
I will and will not do with my own body, time, heart. It talks about
respecting other people's boundaries. I think this concept of
boundaries is what kids need. People see unschooling as lacking
boundaries, because they see *some* parents, often not even
unschoolers, "respecting" their kid to the point that everyone around
the kid is walking on eggshells, and the kid is hurting people and
things. Parents need to have boundaries around themselves that
protect their body and things and sanity, and respect their kid's
boundaries as well.
It's a good book, just skip the "boundaries with kids" section. It
totally contradicts everything else in the book and starts talking
about punishments and rules. (rolls eyes) But I found it helpful to
apply the adult to adult boundary concepts to my parenting.
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], "claire.horsley08"
<claire.horsley08@...> wrote:
matches that had been left lying around the house and wanted to play
with them. I asked her to bring the box out to the garden, where we
had fun practising how to light matches safely until they were all gone.
For me, that was a useful strategy for safety in the present and in
the future.
I wonder what I would have done had I believed that "children need
boundaries". LOL
Bob
<claire.horsley08@...> wrote:
> - she claimed that radical unschoolers treat children as adults,"without boundaries". This
> seems to be one of those mainstream parenting catchphrases -'children need boundaries!'.
>When my daughter was three, she discovered an almost full box of
matches that had been left lying around the house and wanted to play
with them. I asked her to bring the box out to the garden, where we
had fun practising how to light matches safely until they were all gone.
For me, that was a useful strategy for safety in the present and in
the future.
I wonder what I would have done had I believed that "children need
boundaries". LOL
Bob