Sandra Dodd

Monday, November 24th, will be the seventh anniversary of the
AlwaysLearning list, and we'll begin our 8th year.

I've missed most or all of the other anniversaries, but seven seems
like a good, special number to note.

The internet is going through another large change, and so these
lists might become as outdated as usenet groups. (Never heard of
them? Exactly. Some of the still-living ones were moved to google
groups, in a nursing-home sort of way.) The happy burgeoning edge
of internet exchanges is now ning groups and blogs.

Still, with over 1900 members on the lists, we'll probably reach 2000
before the end of the year. I figure there are a few hundred who
aren't reading or whose mail is bouncing, but there are over 1000 for
sure who do read sometimes and a few hundred who read very
regularly. The membership rolls are definitely not padded. While
some lists have invited lots of people and continue to gather up new
members for the sake of bragging rights, this list has rarely been
promoted. Generally, people really want to be here and don't stumble
on it by accident!

The AlwaysLearning archive has over 40,000 posts, and few are fluff.
In these seven years, five months have had over 1,000 posts. Five
months had fewer than 100. With an average of close to 500 posts a
month, that's a lot of information. That's thousands of ideas and
stories and questions and answers.

Thanks to all of you who've read, contributed and taken these ideas
out into the world within and outside of your families. The world is
richer.

Sandra

Anna Krimshtein

Sandra,



I love anniversaries :-)! I have been a part of this group for at least 4
years and I think learnt about it from Rue Kream's book - raising a free
child. I cannot keep up with all of the emails, but I read the digest
regularly and follow the discussions that catch my eye.



Thank you for keeping this group going! While local support was vital when
we decided to unschool (almost 7 years ago), but it is also nice to know
that you are supported nationally.



Kind regards,

Anna ~ Miami, Florida



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

Thanks for the kind words, Anna.

-=-it is also nice to know
that you are supported nationally. -=-

Internationally!

We have now or have had readers and participants from the U.K.,
France, Spain, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Costa Rica, New Zealand,
Australia, India, Japan and Canada.



Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hollywoodapi

I realized that after I pressed the "send" button :)!

I was born and raised in Moscow, Russia - went thru the Soviet
educational system - one of the most rigorous educational systems in
the world - did extremely well. Once I immigrated to the US, I
received an undegraduate and graduate degrees in business and law
degree immediately thereafter. With a total of 18 years of highly
pressured schooling I totally embrace unschooling - I am a very
passionate advocate of unschooling!!! I am delighted that my
children were born in United States and unschooling is a legal and
viable option, as I don't think it is legal to unschool in Russia or
if it is legal, it would be extremely difficult!

Kind regards,
Anna

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the kind words, Anna.
>
> -=-it is also nice to know
> that you are supported nationally. -=-
>
> Internationally!
>
> We have now or have had readers and participants from the U.K.,
> France, Spain, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Costa Rica, New
Zealand,
> Australia, India, Japan and Canada.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Jenny C

>but it is also nice to know
> that you are supported nationally.
>


And internationally, this is an international list! Let's not forget
the rest of the world here!

wickemily

Hello Sandra and everyone,

I just want to say thanks for the list. I've never posted before and
don't even have kids (though someday I may) and began reading a few
years ago because I'm a fan of John Holt. I have learned so much about
life, learning, problem solving, and relationships of all types from
having these email digests show up in my inbox in the midst of regular
life. As a result, I am often having some type of problem or other at
the time I skim over the posts, and reading people's posts helps me
get into more of a wise and compassionate mindset.

Happy anniversary and add one more to the pile of congratulations for
having changed so many lives. It is a beautiful thing even just to
witness.

Emily W.
Oakland, CA

----

http://www.twoeyeballs.com

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Monday, November 24th, will be the seventh anniversary of the
> AlwaysLearning list, and we'll begin our 8th year.
>
> I
>

Hema A. Bharadwaj

--------------------------------------------------------------------
*Monday, November 24th, will be the seventh anniversary of the
AlwaysLearning list, and we'll begin our 8th year.

I've missed most or all of the other anniversaries, but seven seems
like a good, special number to note.*
------------------------------------------------------------------------

To Sandra and all the other wonderful contributors to this community,
Shubhkamnaye from our family in Pune, India.

I am grateful for this amazing place that gives me so much to think about
and challenges me to be better each day.

With metta,
Hema



--
Hema A. Bharadwaj
Pune, India, Earth


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Happy anniversary and add one more to the pile of congratulations for
having changed so many lives. It is a beautiful thing even just to
witness. -=-

Thank you.

I do think the same principles that help people make their children's
lives happier and richer will make people's dogs' lives and
neighbors' lives and their own lives better too!

It's cool that you're reading without having children and finding
uses for the ideas!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

casa_divina

Happy Anniversary everybody!

Now you can add Ecuador to that list!

Molly
(Divina 5, Sabina 3.5)

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the kind words, Anna.
>
> -=-it is also nice to know
> that you are supported nationally. -=-
>
> Internationally!
>
> We have now or have had readers and participants from the U.K.,
> France, Spain, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Costa Rica, New Zealand,
> Australia, India, Japan and Canada.
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

I'm going to put a note on my blog in the morning, so I want to have
a good list here. Have I forgotten others? I know one of my French
correspondents is in Switzerland but I think she's not on this list
(Jeanine Barbé). I moved Canada up, because from New Mexico (the
center of my universe), Canada is more between me and England than it
is between me and Japan. So if i go (in my imagination) from here to
the U.K. and down, then swoop up to Central America and over to New
Zealand (yeah, a hell of a swoop, but I don't know how else to get
toward India and then Japan...) I get this:

We have or have had readers and participants from Canada, the U.K.,
France, Spain, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Costa Rica, Ecuador,
New Zealand,
Australia, India, and Japan.

Any additions or a more logical world-swoop?

Sandra



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim Zerbe

Is it intentional to leave out the USA? (Is that assumed or mentioned
elsewhere?) Maybe after the word participants say "not only from the United
States, but also from" and resume with Canada, etc.

I like your world swoop! Another way might be to list countries
alphabetically (after USA), or list in order by number or participants from
there with more popular countries listed first (this is much harder to
know!). But I do like your world swoop. ;)

Kim



_____

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:30 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Seventh Anniversary of the AlwaysLearning
list



I'm going to put a note on my blog in the morning, so I want to have
a good list here. Have I forgotten others? I know one of my French
correspondents is in Switzerland but I think she's not on this list
(Jeanine Barbé). I moved Canada up, because from New Mexico (the
center of my universe), Canada is more between me and England than it
is between me and Japan. So if i go (in my imagination) from here to
the U.K. and down, then swoop up to Central America and over to New
Zealand (yeah, a hell of a swoop, but I don't know how else to get
toward India and then Japan...) I get this:

We have or have had readers and participants from Canada, the U.K.,
France, Spain, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Costa Rica, Ecuador,
New Zealand,
Australia, India, and Japan.

Any additions or a more logical world-swoop?

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-Is it intentional to leave out the USA? (Is that assumed or mentioned
elsewhere?) Maybe after the word participants say "not only from the
United
States, but also from" and resume with Canada, etc.-=-

Assumed. I figured, as the U.S. is the center of the English
speaking world and Albuquerque is the center of the United States
(from my personal point of view, anyway)...



Okay then:



We have or have had readers and participants from the U.S., Canada,
the U.K.,
France, Spain, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Costa Rica, Ecuador,
New Zealand, Australia, India, and Japan and whatever hasn't been
added to the list yet.



I think the swoop through Europe is awkward.

Someone from Finland used to correspond with me, but I think it was
pre-AlwaysLearning-list.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

>
> Happy anniversary and add one more to the pile of congratulations for
> having changed so many lives. It is a beautiful thing even just to
> witness.
>


I am most definitely one of those lives changed, and because of this,
the lives of my individual family members! I'm soooo glad I found
unschooling, and I'm really very grateful for Sandra's clarity
throughout the years, as well as other folks who post here, because it
wouldn't be a message board without messages from more than one person!

Sandra's sort of the hostess with the mostest, cuz she offers more than
tea!

Miriam Mason

Hello, I'm Mim, mama to two boys (9 and 6). I've been reading for a
little while, and will try hard not to flag Sandra's bullshit detector. ;)

So... <gasp>... my 9 year old wants to race... Race for real. I don't
share that interest with him (except on the wii or the DS or the bumper
karts, all of which he is brilliant at). I trust him to race. But
racing means a lot of expense... a kart that's used will be a minimum of
$600.00, plus a LOT of constant maintenance (which we do not know how to
do), we'd need a trailer, another $500.00, because the kart would never
fit in either of our cars. Then there's the insurance... Yikes... lol

We'd need to enter races (yes costs), travel to races (obvious costs),
and hang out with heavily competitive kids who have been racing in karts
for years, because legally, those are where he can publicly race, just
cuz he's underage.

Then there's hanging out with the parents who are VERY different from us
(racing parents with buzz cuts and beers?), and this doesn't include
uniforms we'd have to get, the safety equipment.

I would love to follow his passion, wish I could do ALL of it, despite
my being less than completely comfortable with it to varying degrees (I
think the people we'd be with would worry me more than anything else),
but the cost is prohibitive at the moment.

He definitely has passions, he's highly intelligent, and very good at
racing for sure. What's the next best thing? lol! Any ideas?

He can't even get a taste of it yet. Even at the local park he's 3
inches too short to race in the cars there. There's a lot of legal
mumbo jumbo having to do with insurance mostly as to why there isn't a
legal place for him to go rent a car and race it then return it (like
ice skating, or bowling, wouldn't that be cool?) for him to get just a
taste. It's all or nothing -- you have to buy it all yourself. I've
researched it. I've even tried to "borrow" someone's car, but he
refused because of the legal complications.

Eeek. I would appreciate input. Ideas? Suggestions?

Thank you very much,
and Happy Seventh Anniversary,
from a relative newbie,

~~Mim

Ed Wendell

If I were swooping I'd probably take this route:

U.S.A., Canada, U.K., Germany, France, Spain, Italy, South Africa, India, Japan, Australia, New Zealand,
Ecuador, Costa Rica,

And of course it depends upon where in a particular country a person is located, to determine the order of the swooping to make it more flowing.

Definitely Costa Rica should be last before returning to Albuquerque - the center of your world ;)

With apologies to: Belle Fourche, South Dakota.

According to:

Stu Whitney, USA TODAY
When Alaska and Hawaii joined the union in 1959, the National Geodetic Survey designated Belle Fourche, a ranch town of 4,500 residents in western South Dakota, the geographic center of the USA.



Ed W.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bob Collier

--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> Monday, November 24th, will be the seventh anniversary of the
> AlwaysLearning list, and we'll begin our 8th year.
>
> I've missed most or all of the other anniversaries, but seven seems
> like a good, special number to note.


Congratulations from Down Under. :-)

(Where it's already Monday. My Fox Clock tells me it's about 5.30pm
Sunday there)

>
> The internet is going through another large change, and so these
> lists might become as outdated as usenet groups. (Never heard of
> them? Exactly. Some of the still-living ones were moved to google
> groups, in a nursing-home sort of way.) The happy burgeoning edge
> of internet exchanges is now ning groups and blogs.
>

And Twitter. :-)

Although that's very shallow and ephemeral compared to ning groups and
blogs - some of which amongst the many I've visited have become the
most extraordinary works of art.


> Still, with over 1900 members on the lists, we'll probably reach 2000
> before the end of the year. I figure there are a few hundred who
> aren't reading or whose mail is bouncing, but there are over 1000 for
> sure who do read sometimes and a few hundred who read very
> regularly. The membership rolls are definitely not padded. While
> some lists have invited lots of people and continue to gather up new
> members for the sake of bragging rights, this list has rarely been
> promoted. Generally, people really want to be here and don't stumble
> on it by accident!


This is one of my favourite online places.


Bob

Sandra Dodd

-=-Definitely Costa Rica should be last before returning to
Albuquerque - the center of your world ;)-=-

Thanks. I adopted the new world order (...yeah...) and added Israel
(thanks, Talya) and posted it here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/11/7th-anniversary-of-always-
learning-list.html


Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Hi, Mim,

My dh is a race car driver and has coached karters for some years. I'll get some info and advice from him, then e-mail you off-list.

Robin B.
>
> So... <gasp>... my 9 year old wants to race...

Sandra Dodd

-=-My dh is a race car driver and has coached karters for some years.
I'll get some info and advice from him, then e-mail you off-list.-=-

Robin, if you want to do it here that's fine. I figure some of the
generalities will apply to questions about other expensive hobbies
and requests. I was hoping someone would have ideas!

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joanna Murphy

I was hoping someone would have ideas!
>
> Sandra

One idea I had while reading the post is whether you might be able to attend the races and
try ingratiating yourself into the scene, talk to other parents, and look for a kid that might
want to "mentor" your child. That child could show yours the ropes, how to drive his kart,
racing strategy, etc. And the parents could do the same with you--you know, mentor you so
that if you do begin to acquire what you need you can make informed decisions.

Passionate people will often be very responsive about helping someone new into their thing.
I do that with people who are interested in natural horsemanship. I've given tons of free
instruction to people if they just show the slightest interest.

Joanna

[email protected]

Will do! My dh is putting together more specific information, but I'll send this for now.

Ross reminded me that people in karting are really helpful to one another and maintain a supportive community, in spite of the element of competition. He said that he's met more homeschooling families in karting than most other sports. Karting also seeks to include the whole family (not just having parents and sibs watch on the sidelines).

It can be a great way to get to know the country (and other countries, if your budding F1 driver wants to further his or her career in Europe!) through travel. Michelle has travelled with us through the U.S. and Canada, plus Melbourne, Sydney and Brisbane, Australia, going to her dad's racing or coaching events. Next year, we're going to France for the Le Mans 24 Hour race.

Racing is expensive, there's no doubt about it. And it can be dangerous. But there's so much to be gained from pursuing it - community, new experiences, new places, and learning about one's self. It's also tons of fun!

These are good things to know, going in, I think!

Robin B.


-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
> -=-My dh is a race car driver and has coached karters for some years.
> I'll get some info and advice from him, then e-mail you off-list.-=-
>
> Robin, if you want to do it here that's fine. I figure some of the
> generalities will apply to questions about other expensive hobbies
> and requests. I was hoping someone would have ideas!
>
> Sandra

Robyn L. Coburn

It sounds like money is the primary obstacle. Would any local businesses be
willing to sponsor his car like in other car racing? What about dh's work?

There was a thread just recently about kids' businesses. I wonder if he did
some similar kind of fund raising activity, publicising the goal, it might
attract a philanthropist.

One of Jayn's friends makes a lot of pocket money selling used clothing on
Ebay. Lots of her friends, aunties and neighbors, who don't want to be
bothered doing Ebay themselves, donate clothes to her instead of taking them
to Goodwill.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd

-=-One idea I had while reading the post is whether you might be able
to attend the races and
try ingratiating yourself into the scene, talk to other parents, and
look for a kid that might
want to "mentor" your child. That child could show yours the ropes,
how to drive his kart, -=-



Maybe you'll find a family about to upgrade and can get their old
one. Or maybe meet mechanics who could cobble a kart from parts they
have and that could be a starting kart perhaps.

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Miriam Mason

Just wanted to take a moment and say thanks to everyone for the input,
the blog experience, the suggestions. We are *loving* this! O is
looking forward to being behind a real wheel. He is also starting to
really get into entrepreneurial stuff. We recently had to have 4 pine
trees cut down in our backyard, and he's been collecting the wood and
dragging out by wagons-full to the nearby main street and selling it to
passersby, but he thought it would be easier than it actually is (that
he'd have more customers). So this really fits, too. Thank you Robin,
Robyn, Crystal, Sandra and anybody else I may have missed. Looking
forward to helping him make this happen.

Mim



Robyn L. Coburn wrote:
>
>
> It sounds like money is the primary obstacle. Would any local businesses be
> willing to sponsor his car like in other car racing? What about dh's work?
>
> There was a thread just recently about kids' businesses. I wonder if he did
> some similar kind of fund raising activity, publicising the goal, it might
> attract a philanthropist.
>
> One of Jayn's friends makes a lot of pocket money selling used clothing on
> Ebay. Lots of her friends, aunties and neighbors, who don't want to be
> bothered doing Ebay themselves, donate clothes to her instead of taking
> them
> to Goodwill.
>
> Robyn L. Coburn
> www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
> www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
>

casa_divina

Just a small correction. Ecuador is in South America, not Central America.

Molly


--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I'm going to put a note on my blog in the morning, so I want to have
> a good list here. Have I forgotten others? I know one of my French
> correspondents is in Switzerland but I think she's not on this list
> (Jeanine Barb�). I moved Canada up, because from New Mexico (the
> center of my universe), Canada is more between me and England than it
> is between me and Japan. So if i go (in my imagination) from here to
> the U.K. and down, then swoop up to Central America and over to New
> Zealand (yeah, a hell of a swoop, but I don't know how else to get
> toward India and then Japan...) I get this:
>
> We have or have had readers and participants from Canada, the U.K.,
> France, Spain, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Costa Rica, Ecuador,
> New Zealand,
> Australia, India, and Japan.
>
> Any additions or a more logical world-swoop?
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-Just a small correction. Ecuador is in South America, not Central
America.-=-

Right. Down to South Africa, over an up to Ecuador and then Costa
Rica, back down to the southern hemisphere without "tangling up my
string" (I didn't want to cross my own imagined route...)

It's all just for fun. Not worth correcting.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Katy JENNINGS

I came really close to buying Richard (13) a kart for Christmas this year.
There was someone selling one locally for a really good deal, but even a
good deal was a little too much for me at this point.

Richard has wanted to race as long as I can remember. When he was 18 months
old he was lining up toy race cars on a braided rug track (still does that,
here is a recent picture
http://tinyurl.com/5lfsly
and for years he called the Star Spangled Banner "The Race Car Song!"
(Which makes him a redneck according to Jeff Foxworthy, "you might be a red
neck if you think the last four words of the Star Spangled Banner are
Gentlemen, Start Your Engines!" Yeah, thats my boy!)

When my step-dad passed away in February, he left Richard his Street Stock.
It sits in front of our house, waiting for the day when we can get it on the
track. Here is a picture of it: http://tinyurl.com/66atpf
We may actually start with a Hobby Stock, hopefully we can do that as soon
as this coming year. My brother used to race locally, and still has an old
Hobby around.

Richard knows that I am working to get him on the track. I have always
taken his dream of being a race car driver seriously, but there are serious
financial considerations to be worked out. We will get there though.

I would love to read more from Robin's husband. Richard follows almost all
types of racing, and the 24 hour Le Mans race is one of his favorites.

Katy J.
www.katyjennings.blogspot.com

Sandra Dodd

My dad raced go-karts when I was little, when we still lived in
Texas. I remember going and watching one race. I was probably
four. And my dad took me for a little ride on the dirt road in
front of our very rural house, and my mom threw a fit, and I never
got to ride again. Then she got jealous because my dad's racing
friend was the (also grown; they were in their 20's, all of them)
daughter of his boss at work. So my mom made him sell his go-kart.
He also sold his Harley 74, which I remember him rebuilding and
painting inside the house that winter.

That's a sad thought for me this morning, to realize that it wasn't
just the kids' spirits my mom was willing to crush. My dad was a
sweetie, and my mom was not.

Keeping pictures of bad choices and meanness in the back of my mind
is a way I remind myself how and where I want to be, though. It's
no good to obsess or wallow in it, but sometimes it's good to glance
and remember.

A friend's mom died on Friday. They lived in the same city but
hadn't spoken for five years. He's 28. She was 51. She was a
substance abuser of one or two sorts, and his parents had divorced
when he was ten or twelve. He suffered a very irritating stepmother
who had declared aloud (to other women who are still around) that she
was going to have that man, before she broke up that marriage. They
had another child. My friend is the only child of the first
marriage, and his mom died suddenly of a heart attack, leaving a
mortgaged house full of stuff and a new car with a big loan. It
makes me think I'm glad I'm working to maintain good relations with
my kids, and it makes me want to shovel a bunch of stuff out to the
thrift store so Holly won't be stuck with so much physical detritus
someday. (I probably won't, but it makes me look around with
sympathy for my kids.)

Keith has an armored-combat hobby that's doing damage to his joints.
He's picking his motorcycle up from the shop today. My dad could fix
his own motorcycle and go-kart. Keith's not as much a mechanic as
that, but Keith inherited his brother's motorcycle. I worry a
little, but I do not shame or pressure him.

My kids didn't have racing urges, but Marty has a jeep with a
skateboard in the back, and I could caution and remind and shame, but
I see it as part of the joy of his life.

Moms who put their own comfort above the needs of the male people in
their lives can end up without any male people in their lives. It
happened to my mom, and to my friend Josh's mom.

Sandra

Miriam Mason

Sandra that makes me so sad to hear. I also have a Mom that didn't
value my choices unless they met with her and my father's approval, and
even then, they were fearful to even support those choices, fearful of
my failing at them, not being good enough. It is valuable to look back
in order to really see the distance you have come! I am so very
grateful every day for the kind of life we are able to joyfully live,
that my kids feel me there with them with the wind on their backs,
sailing into their futures freely, without any judgment, and for the
kinds of friends I have attracted from my own healing as a result.

Life *is* good!

Warmly,
Mim
(still cosleeps with both and nurses the 6 year old)

Sandra Dodd wrote:
>
>
> My dad raced go-karts when I was little, when we still lived in
> Texas. I remember going and watching one race. I was probably
> four. And my dad took me for a little ride on the dirt road in
> front of our very rural house, and my mom threw a fit, and I never
> got to ride again. Then she got jealous because my dad's racing
> friend was the (also grown; they were in their 20's, all of them)
> daughter of his boss at work. So my mom made him sell his go-kart.
> He also sold his Harley 74, which I remember him rebuilding and
> painting inside the house that winter.
>
> That's a sad thought for me this morning, to realize that it wasn't
> just the kids' spirits my mom was willing to crush. My dad was a
> sweetie, and my mom was not.
>
> Keeping pictures of bad choices and meanness in the back of my mind
> is a way I remind myself how and where I want to be, though. It's
> no good to obsess or wallow in it, but sometimes it's good to glance
> and remember.
>
> A friend's mom died on Friday. They lived in the same city but
> hadn't spoken for five years. He's 28. She was 51. She was a
> substance abuser of one or two sorts, and his parents had divorced
> when he was ten or twelve. He suffered a very irritating stepmother
> who had declared aloud (to other women who are still around) that she
> was going to have that man, before she broke up that marriage. They
> had another child. My friend is the only child of the first
> marriage, and his mom died suddenly of a heart attack, leaving a
> mortgaged house full of stuff and a new car with a big loan. It
> makes me think I'm glad I'm working to maintain good relations with
> my kids, and it makes me want to shovel a bunch of stuff out to the
> thrift store so Holly won't be stuck with so much physical detritus
> someday. (I probably won't, but it makes me look around with
> sympathy for my kids.)
>
> Keith has an armored-combat hobby that's doing damage to his joints.
> He's picking his motorcycle up from the shop today. My dad could fix
> his own motorcycle and go-kart. Keith's not as much a mechanic as
> that, but Keith inherited his brother's motorcycle. I worry a
> little, but I do not shame or pressure him.
>
> My kids didn't have racing urges, but Marty has a jeep with a
> skateboard in the back, and I could caution and remind and shame, but
> I see it as part of the joy of his life.
>
> Moms who put their own comfort above the needs of the male people in
> their lives can end up without any male people in their lives. It
> happened to my mom, and to my friend Josh's mom.
>
> Sandra