Jenny C

"...nor are they strictly "unschooling," that is, following the
teachings of John Holt, a progressive educator who promoted a child-led
learning movement that is a wildly democratic subset of the
home-schooling world. Rather, theirs is an ad hoc, day-by-day
exploration into what it means to be a stay-at-home parent and child in
an accelerated culture like New York."

Hmmmm wildly democratic subset... Is that what I do with my kids? Our
life is more ad hoc, day-by-day exploration, but not about the meaning
of being a stay at home parent and child. Eww that sounds terribly
boring. What we do is more of an ad hoc exploration of the world that
we live in.

Interesting article. It really causes more confusion about unschooling.
The label is kind of tossed around in a "yes we are doing that" and "no,
we are doing something else". That was a bit confusing to me. I know
how overwhelming it is to have a 5 yr old and choose not to put them in
school though. It's very life altering!

The comments are fun, in a train wreck sort of way.

> Newest article on..."anti"-schooling?
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/garden/16unschool.html?pagewanted=1
>

k

Well.... :P~~~~~~~

To my way of thinking it would be hard to find a more wide open fun
environment to homeschool or unschool in. The only drawback being the idea
(according to some) that homeschooling is not good enough to measure up.
New York City is a great place to visit for sure and there are times when I
think I would like to live there if I could only afford it. It's a such
wonderful place. What's all this with New York being so set against
homeschooling!?

~Katherine



On 10/16/08, Kelly Lovejoy <kbcdlovejo@...> wrote:
> Newest article on..."anti"-schooling?
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/16/garden/16unschool.html?pagewanted=1
>
> ~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-What's all this with New York being so set against
homeschooling!?-=-

New Yorkers are famously opposed to everything in the world.



There's a song in a Marx Brothers movie:

I don�t know what they have to say,
It makes no difference anyway --
Whatever it is, I�m against it!
No matter what it is or who commenced it,
I�m against it.

Your proposition may be good
But let�s have one thing understood --
Whatever it is, I�m against it!
And even when you�ve changed it or condensed it,
I�m against it.

I�m opposed to it --
On general principles I�m opposed to it!

Chorus: He�s opposed to it!
In fact, in word, in deed,
He�s opposed to it!

For months before my son was born,
I used to yell from night till morn,
Whatever it is, I�m against it!
And I�ve kept yelling since I commenced it,
I�m against it!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PY7N4iRgLQ

(it turns into another song, but all of the above lyrics are there in
the first half of the clip)

Sandra




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

Well now that mystery is cleared up. I have a friend who has said some of
these lyrics for years. Now I know where they come from! NYC of course.
;)

~Katherine




On 10/16/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-What's all this with New York being so set against
> homeschooling!?-=-
>
> New Yorkers are famously opposed to everything in the world.
>
>
>
> There's a song in a Marx Brothers movie:
>
> I don't know what they have to say,
> It makes no difference anyway --
> Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> No matter what it is or who commenced it,
> I'm against it.
>
> Your proposition may be good
> But let's have one thing understood --
> Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
> I'm against it.
>
> I'm opposed to it --
> On general principles I'm opposed to it!
>
> Chorus: He's opposed to it!
> In fact, in word, in deed,
> He's opposed to it!
>
> For months before my son was born,
> I used to yell from night till morn,
> Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> And I've kept yelling since I commenced it,
> I'm against it!
>
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PY7N4iRgLQ
>
> (it turns into another song, but all of the above lyrics are there in
> the first half of the clip)
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-That reminds me of an old song about saying no to everything - "Oh
No,
John!"-=-



That's different, though. That's a joke on parents telling their
kids "Just say no" (even in the 1700s or whenever). I made all-state
mixed choir using an "art song" version of "Oh No John" as my try-out
piece.

The cynical attitude some people adopt as their way of being has to
do with the idea that if you find fault with things, it proves you're
smart. That causes some god-awful music and movie reviews, some
crazy advice columns... There are kid attitudes that survive into
adulthood, where a sigh, and eye-roll and a comment in the range of
"that's boring" or "that's stupid" passes for conversation and opinion.

It's good to avoid it when you can.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Margaret

Yup, it is different but it really did remind me of that song :)
What you said about saying no also reminded me of the Fantastiks which
is all about saying no (especially the song "Never say No")

Looks like the connection wasn't relevant enough to post. Sorry about
that! It did remind me of rules versus principles (and why rules
alone are silly) so I thought it would be interesting... but still not
what was being discussed

On Fri, Oct 17, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> -=-That reminds me of an old song about saying no to everything - "Oh
> No,
> John!"-=-
>
> That's different, though. That's a joke on parents telling their
> kids "Just say no" (even in the 1700s or whenever). I made all-state
> mixed choir using an "art song" version of "Oh No John" as my try-out
> piece.
>
> The cynical attitude some people adopt as their way of being has to
> do with the idea that if you find fault with things, it proves you're
> smart. That causes some god-awful music and movie reviews, some
> crazy advice columns... There are kid attitudes that survive into
> adulthood, where a sigh, and eye-roll and a comment in the range of
> "that's boring" or "that's stupid" passes for conversation and opinion.
>
> It's good to avoid it when you can.
>
> Sandra

Dina

i don't usually post here but had to chime in on this one as someone who lives in nyc.

as i see it, the idea of "getting ahead" here is drilled into kids when they're so young. i
have friends who were worrying about what school their kids will get into when their kids
were 3 and 4 months old. waiting lists for schools are insane here. and in my opinion,
nyc tends to be a culture of money, money, money. its a status thing. it seems that the
better school (read: more $$$) the better person/parent you are.

going "against the grain" here seems to be extremely challenging here. i, for one, was
thankful for this article in the ny times. hopefully parents will see other options. i know
that a great deal of parents have been pulling their kids out of school this year and
deciding to homeschool them because they just don't like what's happening in the schools.

dina in nyc, who doesn't oppose everything in the world

--- In [email protected], k <katherand@...> wrote:
>
> Well now that mystery is cleared up. I have a friend who has said some of
> these lyrics for years. Now I know where they come from! NYC of course.
> ;)
>
> ~Katherine
>
>
>
>
> On 10/16/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> >
> > -=-What's all this with New York being so set against
> > homeschooling!?-=-
> >
> > New Yorkers are famously opposed to everything in the world.
> >
> >
> >
> > There's a song in a Marx Brothers movie:
> >
> > I don't know what they have to say,
> > It makes no difference anyway --
> > Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> > No matter what it is or who commenced it,
> > I'm against it.
> >
> > Your proposition may be good
> > But let's have one thing understood --
> > Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> > And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
> > I'm against it.
> >
> > I'm opposed to it --
> > On general principles I'm opposed to it!
> >
> > Chorus: He's opposed to it!
> > In fact, in word, in deed,
> > He's opposed to it!
> >
> > For months before my son was born,
> > I used to yell from night till morn,
> > Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> > And I've kept yelling since I commenced it,
> > I'm against it!
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PY7N4iRgLQ
> >
> > (it turns into another song, but all of the above lyrics are there in
> > the first half of the clip)
> >
> > Sandra
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-dina in nyc, who doesn't oppose everything in the world-=-

You're in a nest of critical cynicism, though, which might be part of
why it seems harder to unschool there. Everyone's a critic (and not
in a nice or a funny way). There are some other unschoolers there,
but there seems to be a lot of class/neighborhood fragmentation that
might make it difficult to create a cohesive get-together group. I
could be wrong, for sure, and I hope the article does stir enough
discussion or info-sharing that there might be others to step off the
path with.

-=-and in my opinion,
nyc tends to be a culture of money, money, money. its a status thing.
it seems that the
better school (read: more $$$) the better person/parent you are. -=-

Though it might not be as universal in other places, I see that
hugely with Holly's boyfriend's family. Parenting is proven with
receipts.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

The reason I made that comment about NYC of course is because the place is
like an enormous microcosm of the whole world, one of its many fascinating
components. I know it wasn't clear so let me so here that I'm an admirer of
all things NYC! Love the place, the people, the culture, it's amazing. All
that in one place.

~Katherine




On 10/19/08, Dina <dapsign@...> wrote:
>
> i don't usually post here but had to chime in on this one as someone who
> lives in nyc.
>
> as i see it, the idea of "getting ahead" here is drilled into kids when
> they're so young. i
> have friends who were worrying about what school their kids will get into
> when their kids
> were 3 and 4 months old. waiting lists for schools are insane here. and in
> my opinion,
> nyc tends to be a culture of money, money, money. its a status thing. it
> seems that the
> better school (read: more $$$) the better person/parent you are.
>
> going "against the grain" here seems to be extremely challenging here. i,
> for one, was
> thankful for this article in the ny times. hopefully parents will see other
> options. i know
> that a great deal of parents have been pulling their kids out of school
> this year and
> deciding to homeschool them because they just don't like what's happening
> in the schools.
>
> dina in nyc, who doesn't oppose everything in the world
>
> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> k <katherand@...> wrote:
> >
> > Well now that mystery is cleared up. I have a friend who has said some of
> > these lyrics for years. Now I know where they come from! NYC of course.
> > ;)
> >
> > ~Katherine
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/16/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > -=-What's all this with New York being so set against
> > > homeschooling!?-=-
> > >
> > > New Yorkers are famously opposed to everything in the world.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There's a song in a Marx Brothers movie:
> > >
> > > I don't know what they have to say,
> > > It makes no difference anyway --
> > > Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> > > No matter what it is or who commenced it,
> > > I'm against it.
> > >
> > > Your proposition may be good
> > > But let's have one thing understood --
> > > Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> > > And even when you've changed it or condensed it,
> > > I'm against it.
> > >
> > > I'm opposed to it --
> > > On general principles I'm opposed to it!
> > >
> > > Chorus: He's opposed to it!
> > > In fact, in word, in deed,
> > > He's opposed to it!
> > >
> > > For months before my son was born,
> > > I used to yell from night till morn,
> > > Whatever it is, I'm against it!
> > > And I've kept yelling since I commenced it,
> > > I'm against it!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PY7N4iRgLQ
> > >
> > > (it turns into another song, but all of the above lyrics are there in
> > > the first half of the clip)
> > >
> > > Sandra
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]