So Holly has a boyfriend...
Sandra Dodd
Recently, following Holly's links, I came to this on her boyfriend's
page. He updated his MySpace stuff and wrote
Heroes:
I'm sure there are people who I would much rather be like, or who I
think are super cool. The real heroes of my life are my friends and
family. I've learned basically everything I know from or as a direct
cause of them. Friends are great. Currently, my biggest hero(es) are
my girlfriend, and her family.
And in a blog post he wrote:
"I'm happy with the things that have gone well recently, namely Holly
and her wonderful family, the Dodds. "
=========================================================
His parents are not nice to him. The last time he had dinner with
his dad (when his recovering-from-suicide sister was in town), he
told his dad he was planning to move away from his cynical,
pessimistic, depressing roommate (they've been roommates almost all
of seven years, at two universities and more than one house)--and
moving into our house for a while. His dad said "Aren't you
ashamed of your life?"
What his dad wants him to be ashamed of is dropping out of grad
school and not becoming a PhD or a doctor. Brett turned 24 not long
ago. He's been pressured since he was four years old and they put
him in school early so he could be a doctor sooner and ultimately
make more money His parents divorced when he was six. He's been
variously shunted, neglected and indulged (if things and money
counted), and they treat him like a bad child no matter what he does.
He doesn't know how to relax or to breathe hopefully or to live
happily, yet he is very patient and thoughtful and sweet. I told
him he needed remedial intact family. It was my idea for him to move
in here, for a while at least. His living situation was ending, and
his family and roommate were a huge energy suck anyway. The last job
he had (contract work in a medical research lab) paid $14 or $15.
When he told his dad, his dad laughed at him and said "Our nanny
makes more than that."
Poor guy. But he's a sweetie and Holly loves him, and they seem
really good for each other. He's been a good friend of Kirby's for
four or five years, and of Marty's nearly that long. It's been a
year and a day since he and Holly decided they were best friends.
It didn't turn romantic or into being a couple until a few months
after she was 16. (Yes, it's legal, we checked. One of my former
SCA students is now the assistant D.A. in charge of violent crimes,
and he has the jury instructions memorized. If Brett worked in a
school in which Holly were enrolled, or a medical facility in which
she was a patient, it would be a violation of law. She's not in a
school or a hospital, and he doesn't work in either anyway.)
There are photos of them here (and one of me and Keith, too):
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/09/cotton-candy.html
And one she took of them here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/10/glory-of-holly-and-friday-fill-
ins.html
It's different. I didn't expect it. It was another "principles over
rules" surprise in my life.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
page. He updated his MySpace stuff and wrote
Heroes:
I'm sure there are people who I would much rather be like, or who I
think are super cool. The real heroes of my life are my friends and
family. I've learned basically everything I know from or as a direct
cause of them. Friends are great. Currently, my biggest hero(es) are
my girlfriend, and her family.
And in a blog post he wrote:
"I'm happy with the things that have gone well recently, namely Holly
and her wonderful family, the Dodds. "
=========================================================
His parents are not nice to him. The last time he had dinner with
his dad (when his recovering-from-suicide sister was in town), he
told his dad he was planning to move away from his cynical,
pessimistic, depressing roommate (they've been roommates almost all
of seven years, at two universities and more than one house)--and
moving into our house for a while. His dad said "Aren't you
ashamed of your life?"
What his dad wants him to be ashamed of is dropping out of grad
school and not becoming a PhD or a doctor. Brett turned 24 not long
ago. He's been pressured since he was four years old and they put
him in school early so he could be a doctor sooner and ultimately
make more money His parents divorced when he was six. He's been
variously shunted, neglected and indulged (if things and money
counted), and they treat him like a bad child no matter what he does.
He doesn't know how to relax or to breathe hopefully or to live
happily, yet he is very patient and thoughtful and sweet. I told
him he needed remedial intact family. It was my idea for him to move
in here, for a while at least. His living situation was ending, and
his family and roommate were a huge energy suck anyway. The last job
he had (contract work in a medical research lab) paid $14 or $15.
When he told his dad, his dad laughed at him and said "Our nanny
makes more than that."
Poor guy. But he's a sweetie and Holly loves him, and they seem
really good for each other. He's been a good friend of Kirby's for
four or five years, and of Marty's nearly that long. It's been a
year and a day since he and Holly decided they were best friends.
It didn't turn romantic or into being a couple until a few months
after she was 16. (Yes, it's legal, we checked. One of my former
SCA students is now the assistant D.A. in charge of violent crimes,
and he has the jury instructions memorized. If Brett worked in a
school in which Holly were enrolled, or a medical facility in which
she was a patient, it would be a violation of law. She's not in a
school or a hospital, and he doesn't work in either anyway.)
There are photos of them here (and one of me and Keith, too):
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/09/cotton-candy.html
And one she took of them here:
http://sandradodd.blogspot.com/2008/10/glory-of-holly-and-friday-fill-
ins.html
It's different. I didn't expect it. It was another "principles over
rules" surprise in my life.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela Shaw
I'm glad for him, that he has a nice place to hang out and maybe move in.
That's sweet.
I met my husband of 21 years when I was 16 and he was 25. (he'd already
been in the military for 4 years) We've been together ever since and now
unschool our kids which we didn't have for quite some time. (I was 27 and
he 36 when we had our first) My family didn't know my then-boyfriend's age
and they liked him before they found out. <big evil grin> They were always
accepting of him and my mom always fed him dinner and let him stay over
night on the holidays when he didn't live nearby anymore. We married when I
was 19 and he 28. He is a big part of my family and everyone loves him.
(come from a big family) I have no idea what would have happened if my
family had rejected him based on age alone other than the fact that I would
have left with him and not looked back. His family too has always been
supportive since him Dad is 10 years older than his mom. ;) Anyway, most
moms would freak and I think it's awesome that you support them openly,
despite their age difference.
Angela Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
That's sweet.
I met my husband of 21 years when I was 16 and he was 25. (he'd already
been in the military for 4 years) We've been together ever since and now
unschool our kids which we didn't have for quite some time. (I was 27 and
he 36 when we had our first) My family didn't know my then-boyfriend's age
and they liked him before they found out. <big evil grin> They were always
accepting of him and my mom always fed him dinner and let him stay over
night on the holidays when he didn't live nearby anymore. We married when I
was 19 and he 28. He is a big part of my family and everyone loves him.
(come from a big family) I have no idea what would have happened if my
family had rejected him based on age alone other than the fact that I would
have left with him and not looked back. His family too has always been
supportive since him Dad is 10 years older than his mom. ;) Anyway, most
moms would freak and I think it's awesome that you support them openly,
despite their age difference.
Angela Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
The age is a matter of perspective. My mom and dad were 5 years apart, and
because she was almost 17 when they married it seemed like a big deal at the
time, and we girls heard about it from time to time throughout our
childhood. My sister was forbidden to keep in touch with her boyfriend when
the family moved 2 states away and she was 17. Ridiculous.
~Katherine
because she was almost 17 when they married it seemed like a big deal at the
time, and we girls heard about it from time to time throughout our
childhood. My sister was forbidden to keep in touch with her boyfriend when
the family moved 2 states away and she was 17. Ridiculous.
~Katherine
On 10/15/08, Angela Shaw <game-enthusiast@...> wrote:
> I'm glad for him, that he has a nice place to hang out and maybe move in.
> That's sweet.
>
> I met my husband of 21 years when I was 16 and he was 25. (he'd already
> been in the military for 4 years) We've been together ever since and now
> unschool our kids which we didn't have for quite some time. (I was 27
and
> he 36 when we had our first) My family didn't know my then-boyfriend's
age
> and they liked him before they found out. <big evil grin> They were
always
> accepting of him and my mom always fed him dinner and let him stay over
> night on the holidays when he didn't live nearby anymore. We married
when I
> was 19 and he 28. He is a big part of my family and everyone loves him.
> (come from a big family) I have no idea what would have happened if my
> family had rejected him based on age alone other than the fact that I
would
> have left with him and not looked back. His family too has always been
> supportive since him Dad is 10 years older than his mom. ;) Anyway,
most
> moms would freak and I think it's awesome that you support them openly,
> despite their age difference.
>
> Angela Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela Shaw
I also meant to mention that maybe why my dh and I fit together so well back
then is that we were both at the same maturity level when I was 16 and he
was 25. He was slow to bloom. =) And I was quick.
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
then is that we were both at the same maturity level when I was 16 and he
was 25. He was slow to bloom. =) And I was quick.
Angela
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-maybe why my dh and I fit together so well back
then is that we were both at the same maturity level when I was 16
and he
was 25. He was slow to bloom. =) And I was quick.-=-
I think this applies to Holly and Brett too, and additionally she has
unschooling and he needs someone who knows deep inside that there are
things outside of grades and college credits. He has found someone
who really, truly doesn't care what his GPA or SAT were, because she
doesn't even know what those mean. And because he was given a false
sense of maturity, he will (if things continue to unfold as they are)
be able to really become an adult, separate from his parents, in
Holly's presence.
That might sound more dramatic than necessary, but I think I'm
putting it lightly.
And if they decide not to stay together longterm, it still looks like
there are benefits to both of them in all this.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
then is that we were both at the same maturity level when I was 16
and he
was 25. He was slow to bloom. =) And I was quick.-=-
I think this applies to Holly and Brett too, and additionally she has
unschooling and he needs someone who knows deep inside that there are
things outside of grades and college credits. He has found someone
who really, truly doesn't care what his GPA or SAT were, because she
doesn't even know what those mean. And because he was given a false
sense of maturity, he will (if things continue to unfold as they are)
be able to really become an adult, separate from his parents, in
Holly's presence.
That might sound more dramatic than necessary, but I think I'm
putting it lightly.
And if they decide not to stay together longterm, it still looks like
there are benefits to both of them in all this.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Angela Shaw
-=-maybe why my dh and I fit together so well back
then is that we were both at the same maturity level when I was 16
and he
was 25. He was slow to bloom. =) And I was quick.-=-
<<<I think this applies to Holly and Brett too, and additionally she has
unschooling and he needs someone who knows deep inside that there are
things outside of grades and college credits >>>
My dh went from a pretty controlling home right into the military after
highschool. Though he doesn't really talk about it, I get the feeling that
he spent those few years after the military (I met him a few years into this
phase) reacting/rebelling subconsciously (by partying and doing whatever the
hell he wanted to) to the controlling home that he never recovered from
right after high school because he entered the military. He spent those
years working and partying and he ended up renting a home with my
x-boyfriend and two other people who were just out of high school and
entering the work force. (My x-boyfriend had been a Senior when I was a
Sophomore which is much more acceptable) Anyway, this was the place to
party and we met there.
After I finished high school, which seemed to take forever, we went to the
same 2 year college together and after the first year I married him so I
could move in with him in. I thought that if I didn't marry him my mom
would freak out. But then my older sister, who never did anything wrong,
moved in with her boyfriend and it was okay. But I had been afraid to. By
the time we went off to college, neither of us was into partying much
anymore. We buckled down, worked jobs off and on campus to support
ourselves, and got our degrees and went on with our lives.
My reaction to all the typical control of childhood was not to rebel so much
as to just want to break free.
It's been work being married for 21 years. It hasn't always been easy but
we've always been comfortable around each other. Over time and slowly, he's
come to realize that the way I treat the kids works much better than the way
he was treated as a kid. (and when he was frustrated would treat our kids)
It was slow at times but he steadily moved toward a more peaceful way of
being with the girls and the other day when he called, (works on the road a
lot) he told me what a good mother I am and said that whatever I am doing it
is working because when he talks to everyone else at all the different
places he works they have nothing nice to say about their teens/pre-teens
and he thinks ours are great. (and they are!) We all live in peace and
treat each other respectfully and we talk about our feelings and find
solutions to problems that work for everyone.
My house isn't always clean. (ok hardly ever) Supper doesn't make it to
the table very often. (and sometimes it has fur in it, lol) But we connect
every day. We share time together with our animals. I help the girls when
they ride. Get them to lessons. We hang out with their friends. (I noticed
I was the only mom on one of those emails, "get to know your friends" that
one of the girls' friends sent around the other day..the rest were all
teens) I pick up friends, drop them off, let them spend the week-ends. We
play on-line games together. We enjoy being with each other. My kids'
friends love to be here and they include me when we all hang out. My family
rocks. =)
Angela Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
then is that we were both at the same maturity level when I was 16
and he
was 25. He was slow to bloom. =) And I was quick.-=-
<<<I think this applies to Holly and Brett too, and additionally she has
unschooling and he needs someone who knows deep inside that there are
things outside of grades and college credits >>>
My dh went from a pretty controlling home right into the military after
highschool. Though he doesn't really talk about it, I get the feeling that
he spent those few years after the military (I met him a few years into this
phase) reacting/rebelling subconsciously (by partying and doing whatever the
hell he wanted to) to the controlling home that he never recovered from
right after high school because he entered the military. He spent those
years working and partying and he ended up renting a home with my
x-boyfriend and two other people who were just out of high school and
entering the work force. (My x-boyfriend had been a Senior when I was a
Sophomore which is much more acceptable) Anyway, this was the place to
party and we met there.
After I finished high school, which seemed to take forever, we went to the
same 2 year college together and after the first year I married him so I
could move in with him in. I thought that if I didn't marry him my mom
would freak out. But then my older sister, who never did anything wrong,
moved in with her boyfriend and it was okay. But I had been afraid to. By
the time we went off to college, neither of us was into partying much
anymore. We buckled down, worked jobs off and on campus to support
ourselves, and got our degrees and went on with our lives.
My reaction to all the typical control of childhood was not to rebel so much
as to just want to break free.
It's been work being married for 21 years. It hasn't always been easy but
we've always been comfortable around each other. Over time and slowly, he's
come to realize that the way I treat the kids works much better than the way
he was treated as a kid. (and when he was frustrated would treat our kids)
It was slow at times but he steadily moved toward a more peaceful way of
being with the girls and the other day when he called, (works on the road a
lot) he told me what a good mother I am and said that whatever I am doing it
is working because when he talks to everyone else at all the different
places he works they have nothing nice to say about their teens/pre-teens
and he thinks ours are great. (and they are!) We all live in peace and
treat each other respectfully and we talk about our feelings and find
solutions to problems that work for everyone.
My house isn't always clean. (ok hardly ever) Supper doesn't make it to
the table very often. (and sometimes it has fur in it, lol) But we connect
every day. We share time together with our animals. I help the girls when
they ride. Get them to lessons. We hang out with their friends. (I noticed
I was the only mom on one of those emails, "get to know your friends" that
one of the girls' friends sent around the other day..the rest were all
teens) I pick up friends, drop them off, let them spend the week-ends. We
play on-line games together. We enjoy being with each other. My kids'
friends love to be here and they include me when we all hang out. My family
rocks. =)
Angela Shaw
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
Angela wrote:
-=-Over time and slowly, he's
come to realize that the way I treat the kids works much better than
the way
he was treated as a kid. (and when he was frustrated would treat our
kids)
It was slow at times but he steadily moved toward a more peaceful way of
being with the girls and the other day when he called, (works on the
road a
lot) he told me what a good mother I am and said that whatever I am
doing it
is working because when he talks to everyone else at all the different
places he works they have nothing nice to say about their teens/pre-
teens
and he thinks ours are great. (and they are!) We all live in peace and
treat each other respectfully and we talk about our feelings and find
solutions to problems that work for everyone.-=-
Hearing his work associates talk about problems with their children
gave Keith great confidence, too. Once at a party the others all
started moaning about how lazy and unmotivated teens are, and Keith
said something to the effect that our Kirby (15 or 16 at the time)
had a job he liked and was good at. They didn't say "tell us more."
The responses were more to doubt Keith and to treat it like a
conversation-killing thing. They weren't really conversing for
informational purposes. It was "support." It was a calm frenzy of
teen bashing and commiseration. It was "poor us," but Keith felt
lucky.
There's nothing wrong with our family, it turns out after all these
years. And those families who "did all the right things" seem pretty
universally to have serious problems.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-Over time and slowly, he's
come to realize that the way I treat the kids works much better than
the way
he was treated as a kid. (and when he was frustrated would treat our
kids)
It was slow at times but he steadily moved toward a more peaceful way of
being with the girls and the other day when he called, (works on the
road a
lot) he told me what a good mother I am and said that whatever I am
doing it
is working because when he talks to everyone else at all the different
places he works they have nothing nice to say about their teens/pre-
teens
and he thinks ours are great. (and they are!) We all live in peace and
treat each other respectfully and we talk about our feelings and find
solutions to problems that work for everyone.-=-
Hearing his work associates talk about problems with their children
gave Keith great confidence, too. Once at a party the others all
started moaning about how lazy and unmotivated teens are, and Keith
said something to the effect that our Kirby (15 or 16 at the time)
had a job he liked and was good at. They didn't say "tell us more."
The responses were more to doubt Keith and to treat it like a
conversation-killing thing. They weren't really conversing for
informational purposes. It was "support." It was a calm frenzy of
teen bashing and commiseration. It was "poor us," but Keith felt
lucky.
There's nothing wrong with our family, it turns out after all these
years. And those families who "did all the right things" seem pretty
universally to have serious problems.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> There's nothing wrong with our family, it turns out after all theseThe older my oldest gets, the more and more aware I am of the fact that
> years. And those families who "did all the right things" seem pretty
> universally to have serious problems.
>
there is something that we are doing that is profoundly better than what
others are doing.
I can't help thinking, because I know it to be true, that it didn't
start yesterday, it started years ago when Chamille was little, by
treating her respectfully and in a way that showed her how important and
awesome she was/is.
Everytime we are out and about, we hear and see people being mean to
little kids. It physically hurts sometimes. Those kids aren't going to
get over that, they will grow up to be mean to themselves or others or
both. It never ceases to surprise me at how ridiculously parents treat
their children. I hold my children dearly in my heart, I would never
treat them in that manner, nor would they accept such treatment from me
or anyone else.
I'll be talking to someone about having a teen and they'll say something
about not looking forward to that age when their kids get older. I
always tell them, that I love having a teen and that I think my teen is
one of the most awesome, nicest, coolest people I know, because I really
feel that way about her!
Sandra Dodd
-=-I hold my children dearly in my heart, I would never
treat them in that manner, nor would they accept such treatment from me
or anyone else.-=-
Brett is very VERY nice to Holly. But he was very nice to his last
girlfriend, who wasn't a very nice person, who seems to have liked
him mostly because he could get liquor and she couldn't, yet. She
thought he would be THRILLED when she got a fake ID, but it seemed to
me he was relieved because she no longer really needed him.
That's pretty sad.
By then Holly was more a part of his social group, though, and
although it seemed she was way too young to consider, and from her
point of view he was one of Kirby's friends, they did take notice of
one another. The contrasts, in all directions, made differenced in
their lives (except maybe the ex girlfriend who seemed to maintain
her relationship with liquor).
If Holly felt Brett wasn't nice enough, she wouldn't keep him
around. Someone's going to have to better for her than Keith and I
are to make her want to leave here. Parents who are cruel and
thoughtless and mean lower the bar *so much* that some girls will get
pregnant to get out, or leave with a stranger from the internet.
When anything else seems better than home, why is it the children who
get in trouble and not the parents?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
treat them in that manner, nor would they accept such treatment from me
or anyone else.-=-
Brett is very VERY nice to Holly. But he was very nice to his last
girlfriend, who wasn't a very nice person, who seems to have liked
him mostly because he could get liquor and she couldn't, yet. She
thought he would be THRILLED when she got a fake ID, but it seemed to
me he was relieved because she no longer really needed him.
That's pretty sad.
By then Holly was more a part of his social group, though, and
although it seemed she was way too young to consider, and from her
point of view he was one of Kirby's friends, they did take notice of
one another. The contrasts, in all directions, made differenced in
their lives (except maybe the ex girlfriend who seemed to maintain
her relationship with liquor).
If Holly felt Brett wasn't nice enough, she wouldn't keep him
around. Someone's going to have to better for her than Keith and I
are to make her want to leave here. Parents who are cruel and
thoughtless and mean lower the bar *so much* that some girls will get
pregnant to get out, or leave with a stranger from the internet.
When anything else seems better than home, why is it the children who
get in trouble and not the parents?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> When anything else seems better than home, why is it the children whoYes! I wonder this too.
> get in trouble and not the parents?
>
We were at the zoo the other day, and as is expected there were more
than a few tired toddlers and little ones. We over heard over and over
again from parents, a request of tired toddlers to just behave. I kept
thinking what an absurd request that is!
At one point a parent was threatening a 3 yr, telling her that if she
couldn't behave herself she would have to go sit in the car and wait
there so that everyone else could have an enjoyable time at the zoo
without her complaints. I was wondering if she would even be able to
follow up on that threat, since I'm pretty sure that's illegal.
Chamille was pretty disgusted with it. I told Chamille that the mom
really should be the one going and sitting in the car to wait for her
kids, since she clearly couldn't behave herself around her kids enough
to make an enjoyable trip to the zoo without being mean and threatening.
I thought about saying it to the mom, but sometimes it's just better to
walk away. Chamille thought that in the absense of many of the parents
there, most of the kids would be nice and thoroughly enjoy the zoo
wandering around with each other.
Each and every time we saw a child crying or upset, it was the parent
that was behaving worse. Big adult children mistreating powerless
others. Why even go to the zoo with your kids, if your just going to be
mean and miserable? Some of those parents should've swatted themselves
on the behind!
Nancy Wooton
On Oct 16, 2008, at 1:02 PM, Jenny C wrote:
When mine were little, we'd do what we called The Two-Hour Zoo. Two
hours to focus on one area, rather than trying to see the whole thing,
or two hours to take the sky buckets over to the polar bears and walk
back down past the zebras and giraffes, or two hours to take in a show
and eat our bagged lunch. Two hours was just the right amount of time
-- interest didn't lag, and no one got tired enough to get grumpy.
Of course, living in San Diego and having zoo memberships helped ;-)
We always considered the memberships as "school supplies."
Nancy
> Why even go to the zoo with your kids, if your just going to beI occasionally gave myself a time-out.... ;-)
> mean and miserable? Some of those parents should've swatted
> themselves
> on the behind!
When mine were little, we'd do what we called The Two-Hour Zoo. Two
hours to focus on one area, rather than trying to see the whole thing,
or two hours to take the sky buckets over to the polar bears and walk
back down past the zebras and giraffes, or two hours to take in a show
and eat our bagged lunch. Two hours was just the right amount of time
-- interest didn't lag, and no one got tired enough to get grumpy.
Of course, living in San Diego and having zoo memberships helped ;-)
We always considered the memberships as "school supplies."
Nancy
k
---When anything else seems better than home, why is it the children who
get in trouble and not the parents?---
Rhetorical question maybe? I would think this is so because children don't
have the resources, skills, the network of friends and relatives to fall
back on when necessary (even adults could use that sometimes), or even the
simple license by law to do what they need to in order to succeed. Even if
they're of age with license and some sort of network to rely on, most kids
needs some help now and then.
I just asked this of someone today. If your kid wants to succeed and can't
without help, would you say your kid is a failure?
Me... I would feel like a failure if my kid needs help and I refuse, based
on the crummy assumption that kids "should" succeed on their own.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
get in trouble and not the parents?---
Rhetorical question maybe? I would think this is so because children don't
have the resources, skills, the network of friends and relatives to fall
back on when necessary (even adults could use that sometimes), or even the
simple license by law to do what they need to in order to succeed. Even if
they're of age with license and some sort of network to rely on, most kids
needs some help now and then.
I just asked this of someone today. If your kid wants to succeed and can't
without help, would you say your kid is a failure?
Me... I would feel like a failure if my kid needs help and I refuse, based
on the crummy assumption that kids "should" succeed on their own.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
---Each and every time we saw a child crying or upset, it was the parent
that was behaving worse. Big adult children mistreating powerless
others. Why even go to the zoo with your kids, if your just going to be
mean and miserable? Some of those parents should've swatted themselves
on the behind!---
Going by much of what passes for parenting, yeh... that's the truth. I had
to laugh at the absurdity of it when I read what you wrote. Sad and very
funny the way you put it.
I got a bellyful of seeing the same kind of parenting at Carowinds when we
went in September. Ugh.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that was behaving worse. Big adult children mistreating powerless
others. Why even go to the zoo with your kids, if your just going to be
mean and miserable? Some of those parents should've swatted themselves
on the behind!---
Going by much of what passes for parenting, yeh... that's the truth. I had
to laugh at the absurdity of it when I read what you wrote. Sad and very
funny the way you put it.
I got a bellyful of seeing the same kind of parenting at Carowinds when we
went in September. Ugh.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Of course, living in San Diego and having zoo memberships helped ;-)
We always considered the memberships as "school supplies."-=-
We had zoo memberships until recently. Now that Marty's older than
18, some of the family memberships aren't worth having anymore. We
still go to the museums, though. I've kept natural history and Explora.
We wouldn't say "let's go to the zoo," but "let's go see the bird
show" or "let's go see the bears." So with one destination in mind,
we'd choose which way to walk to it and which way to walk back out,
so we'd see several things.
For several years running, the Honeywell company picnic was at the
zoo, after hours, and that was fun, but this year the moved it to the
fairgrounds. Boring.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
We always considered the memberships as "school supplies."-=-
We had zoo memberships until recently. Now that Marty's older than
18, some of the family memberships aren't worth having anymore. We
still go to the museums, though. I've kept natural history and Explora.
We wouldn't say "let's go to the zoo," but "let's go see the bird
show" or "let's go see the bears." So with one destination in mind,
we'd choose which way to walk to it and which way to walk back out,
so we'd see several things.
For several years running, the Honeywell company picnic was at the
zoo, after hours, and that was fun, but this year the moved it to the
fairgrounds. Boring.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Oct 16, 2008, at 6:42 PM, Sandra Dodd wrote:
and Koala Club kids memberships until the kids were 17. Now, the two
kids share a dual membership, too.
Nancy
> -=-Of course, living in San Diego and having zoo membershipsThe way San Diego worked, we'd get a dual membership for dh and me,
> helped ;-)
> We always considered the memberships as "school supplies."-=-
>
>
>
> We had zoo memberships until recently. Now that Marty's older than
> 18, some of the family memberships aren't worth having anymore.
and Koala Club kids memberships until the kids were 17. Now, the two
kids share a dual membership, too.
Nancy
Bob Collier
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
And those families who "did all the right things" seem pretty
> universally to have serious problems.
>
Ah, yes.
"We did all the right things."
"No. You did what somebody you perceived as an expert told you to do."