"Peace"--thoughts and ideas
Sandra Dodd
This isn't written by me, nor by the same anonymous as the other day.
<g>
I'm very interested in this, though, so let rip, please.
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interactions with my kids--but
it's not "THE" goal for our family. There seems to be a pretty
strong judgement inherent in
that statement that non-peaceful interactions are bad, but I've found
that they have their
place in our lives as well.
Just recently, my daughter, uncharacteristically, yelled at an adult
in our group. I instantly
rushed over to "restore the peace." As I was talking with her about
what had happened, I
realized that she was right on the money--this person wasn't
respecting her rights as a
person, was being very condescending and had also been drinking.
The only way for my
daughter to be heard was to raise the energetic volume of the
situation (and her voice). It
made this lady back off. I was going to suggest that next time she
come to me, but then I
had to have an honest moment with myself and realized that i would
have probably acted
in ways to "keep the peace," not necessarily help my daughter. This
woman's drinking had
all of us a little thrown. She handled the situation in the only way
open to her in that
moment, and she got the job done.
I have occasional disagreements with my kids, but there is no
expectation on my part that
if I happen to be the one to raise my voice that they need to either
1. be afraid of me, or
2. acquiesce because of it. And they do neither, because they have
the trust now that I'm
not "pulling rank" if I get frustrated and raise my voice. It might
not look peaceful in the
moment, but we usually end up with a new level of understanding, or
agree to disagree.
When we were at a Waldorf school many years ago, people there put on
a false persona of
"peace." There was a very strong judgment about behaving peacefully
and if you did, that
meant that you were an enlightened person/parent. Those parents can
be just as
disconnected from their kids as the ones that yell a lot. And there
can be peaceful, quiet
parents that are connected with their kids, just as there can also be
loud, raucous families
that are explosive and passionate and loving.
<g>
I'm very interested in this, though, so let rip, please.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
> -=-In unschooling radically, the goal is peaceful interactions. ToI would agree that I have a personal goal of more peaceful
> have that, it's imperative to leave behind our expectations about how
> people will act and react.-=-
>
>
interactions with my kids--but
it's not "THE" goal for our family. There seems to be a pretty
strong judgement inherent in
that statement that non-peaceful interactions are bad, but I've found
that they have their
place in our lives as well.
Just recently, my daughter, uncharacteristically, yelled at an adult
in our group. I instantly
rushed over to "restore the peace." As I was talking with her about
what had happened, I
realized that she was right on the money--this person wasn't
respecting her rights as a
person, was being very condescending and had also been drinking.
The only way for my
daughter to be heard was to raise the energetic volume of the
situation (and her voice). It
made this lady back off. I was going to suggest that next time she
come to me, but then I
had to have an honest moment with myself and realized that i would
have probably acted
in ways to "keep the peace," not necessarily help my daughter. This
woman's drinking had
all of us a little thrown. She handled the situation in the only way
open to her in that
moment, and she got the job done.
I have occasional disagreements with my kids, but there is no
expectation on my part that
if I happen to be the one to raise my voice that they need to either
1. be afraid of me, or
2. acquiesce because of it. And they do neither, because they have
the trust now that I'm
not "pulling rank" if I get frustrated and raise my voice. It might
not look peaceful in the
moment, but we usually end up with a new level of understanding, or
agree to disagree.
When we were at a Waldorf school many years ago, people there put on
a false persona of
"peace." There was a very strong judgment about behaving peacefully
and if you did, that
meant that you were an enlightened person/parent. Those parents can
be just as
disconnected from their kids as the ones that yell a lot. And there
can be peaceful, quiet
parents that are connected with their kids, just as there can also be
loud, raucous families
that are explosive and passionate and loving.
Sandra Dodd
-=-When we were at a Waldorf school many years ago, people there put
on a false persona of "peace." There was a very strong judgment about
behaving peacefully and if you did, that meant that you were an
enlightened person/parent. -=-
Some people do like really soft voices and gentle touch and whispered
advice and that... at least when they have company.
I like to get excited about things in enthusiastic ways. I like
humor. I like surprises.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
on a false persona of "peace." There was a very strong judgment about
behaving peacefully and if you did, that meant that you were an
enlightened person/parent. -=-
Some people do like really soft voices and gentle touch and whispered
advice and that... at least when they have company.
I like to get excited about things in enthusiastic ways. I like
humor. I like surprises.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
prism7513
> When we were at a Waldorf school many years ago, people there put onWell, maybe it's revealing the parts of me I need to work on, or maybe
> a false persona of
> "peace." There was a very strong judgment about behaving peacefully
> and if you did, that
> meant that you were an enlightened person/parent. Those parents can
> be just as
> disconnected from their kids as the ones that yell a lot. And there
> can be peaceful, quiet
> parents that are connected with their kids, just as there can also be
> loud, raucous families
> that are explosive and passionate and loving.
>
not, but I totally agree! :)
My mom often yelled at my sister and I growing up, and it was
definitely not in a respectful manner. But there are times now when
she can say things in a very peaceful facade but have a negative
implication behind the statement or question.
On the other hand, my husband and I, and thus our kids, tend to be
very open and sometimes sarcastic, and occasionally loud. Sarcasm is
something I always fear people will take the wrong way, as in they
might think we actually MEAN what we say, when in reality we both like
exaggerating and batting back and forth with our words.
We know other couples who think it's awful that we "fight" so much,
but these are the same couples who talk down about their spouses
behind their backs, because they don't feel free to share what they
think when their spouse is present. What looks like arguing to some is
our way of getting out thoughts out and figuring out what we want and
working together. Sure, there have been times when we've had to work
on our understanding of what the other person has actually said (the
classic "he says/she hears" thing), but overall our marriage is
stronger and more open and giving than if we always talked with the
intent of not getting loud or "angry." The times I hold my tongue,
sometimes, are the times I let my anger build and "self-talk" the
angry things I want to say but didn't, letting it escalate into a
whole other issue when I could've stopped it at the get-go by just
voicing my thoughts the first time.
That's not to say that you shouldn't think before you speak, though!
Reckless words spewed forth in quick anger is something we both try to
avoid.
Our oldest daughter, 6 (almost), has picked up the sarcasm quite well,
and will call me out on many occasions. I love it! It shows she's not
afraid to challenge me, and it shows she's learning the skills to
banter verbally and not just mimic back things she's heard me say.
Deb
k
Peacefulness is a overall vibe, and not always about loudness or quietness.
I do think loudness (that isn't contentious) encourages freer discourse.
And in my experience, suppressed negativity may seem better at the outset
yet often discourages constructive discourse and action. All that plays a
big role. If a person gravitates toward quiet and avoids noise, there is
some truth to the thought that they may avoid a lot of hassle and lead a
more peaceful existence. There's also some truth to the idea that they may
not learn very much about themselves or others that way. Or maybe they
could if they're good at observing. If a person likes noise for the sake of
pure noise and gravitates indiscriminately toward any noise, they may run
into more than the usual share of trouble. If they're open to learning from
their experience, they could do so. Or maybe not, if for some reason
they're unable to observe.
Ultimately at least some of what I want to end up with is peace, even if
some wrangling or discord intervenes somewhere in the middle. It may not be
the only goal and certainly isn't the most important one but peace is a
pretty big deal for me.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I do think loudness (that isn't contentious) encourages freer discourse.
And in my experience, suppressed negativity may seem better at the outset
yet often discourages constructive discourse and action. All that plays a
big role. If a person gravitates toward quiet and avoids noise, there is
some truth to the thought that they may avoid a lot of hassle and lead a
more peaceful existence. There's also some truth to the idea that they may
not learn very much about themselves or others that way. Or maybe they
could if they're good at observing. If a person likes noise for the sake of
pure noise and gravitates indiscriminately toward any noise, they may run
into more than the usual share of trouble. If they're open to learning from
their experience, they could do so. Or maybe not, if for some reason
they're unable to observe.
Ultimately at least some of what I want to end up with is peace, even if
some wrangling or discord intervenes somewhere in the middle. It may not be
the only goal and certainly isn't the most important one but peace is a
pretty big deal for me.
~Katherine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/14/2008 4:22:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
katherand@... writes:
<<<If a person likes noise for the sake of
pure noise and gravitates indiscriminately toward any noise, they may run
into more than the usual share of trouble. If they're open to learning from
their experience, they could do so. Or maybe not, if for some reason
they're unable to observe.>>>
Hmmm... what about "peaceful noise"? :: grin :: I would consider myself a
person who tends to gravitate toward any noise-at one point, jangly,
metal-clanging type noises were huge in my life (numerous, huge, metal earrings to
jangle right by my ears still get found in stored boxes now and again). I do
notice that some people are discomfited by my kids' noise, but to me it is more
like the radio going in the background: sometimes I can tune it out when I
need to and sometimes I tune into it when I need it, too.
Maybe it is another one of those things like introverts and extroverts, in
that one really can't know where the other is coming from. I guess I'd equate
it to bright, loud colors-which I'm also drawn to. I don't find that I have
more trouble than other folks... in fact, I'd probably say less. I have less
stress than other folks I know, and overall I'm a pretty laid back, easy-going
kind of person. Seeing it all out in black and white, it almost seems like
an oxymoron, but there you have it. :~D On the surface, someone who has
melodious quiet or lots of silence, pastels, routine, etc. seems extremely dull to
me. Uninteresting. Almost a "waiting to live" kind of thing. I *do* know that
other people process things differently, so I know that isn't their
perception of it. I guess it all really boils down to being happy with who we are.
:~)
Peace,
De
_http://and-the-kitchen-sink.blogspot.com/_
(http://and-the-kitchen-sink.blogspot.com/)
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
katherand@... writes:
<<<If a person likes noise for the sake of
pure noise and gravitates indiscriminately toward any noise, they may run
into more than the usual share of trouble. If they're open to learning from
their experience, they could do so. Or maybe not, if for some reason
they're unable to observe.>>>
Hmmm... what about "peaceful noise"? :: grin :: I would consider myself a
person who tends to gravitate toward any noise-at one point, jangly,
metal-clanging type noises were huge in my life (numerous, huge, metal earrings to
jangle right by my ears still get found in stored boxes now and again). I do
notice that some people are discomfited by my kids' noise, but to me it is more
like the radio going in the background: sometimes I can tune it out when I
need to and sometimes I tune into it when I need it, too.
Maybe it is another one of those things like introverts and extroverts, in
that one really can't know where the other is coming from. I guess I'd equate
it to bright, loud colors-which I'm also drawn to. I don't find that I have
more trouble than other folks... in fact, I'd probably say less. I have less
stress than other folks I know, and overall I'm a pretty laid back, easy-going
kind of person. Seeing it all out in black and white, it almost seems like
an oxymoron, but there you have it. :~D On the surface, someone who has
melodious quiet or lots of silence, pastels, routine, etc. seems extremely dull to
me. Uninteresting. Almost a "waiting to live" kind of thing. I *do* know that
other people process things differently, so I know that isn't their
perception of it. I guess it all really boils down to being happy with who we are.
:~)
Peace,
De
_http://and-the-kitchen-sink.blogspot.com/_
(http://and-the-kitchen-sink.blogspot.com/)
**************New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.
Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
(http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000002)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
I think sarcasm can be a problem when people use it unintentionally, without thinking
whether it's a good time or not.
Some people get into such a habit of being sarcastic that they seem to have no other mode.
I would rather a person never be sarcastic than always be. Some friends of mine seem
incapable of having a real conversation because they're just twisting and batting words
around instead of letting the ideas go in and for them to think and then respond.
Just as with smack talk and "bad words" or anything, there are times and places, and I think
words should be released thoughtfully, after a choice is made whether these are the right
words and this is the right tone and the right time.
Sandra
whether it's a good time or not.
Some people get into such a habit of being sarcastic that they seem to have no other mode.
I would rather a person never be sarcastic than always be. Some friends of mine seem
incapable of having a real conversation because they're just twisting and batting words
around instead of letting the ideas go in and for them to think and then respond.
Just as with smack talk and "bad words" or anything, there are times and places, and I think
words should be released thoughtfully, after a choice is made whether these are the right
words and this is the right tone and the right time.
Sandra
Jenny C
> I think sarcasm can be a problem when people use it unintentionally,without thinking
> whether it's a good time or not.Isn't that foot in mouth disease?
>
Generally my words are intentional, but I've been known to say things
that can be turned around in a way that I never considered. Mostly
though, these things get turned into humorous jabs at me and that's ok
because I can laugh at myself.
k
"smack talk"
I'm assuming you meant small talk.
~Katherine
I'm assuming you meant small talk.
~Katherine
On 10/22/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I think sarcasm can be a problem when people use it unintentionally,
> without thinking
> whether it's a good time or not.
>
> Some people get into such a habit of being sarcastic that they seem to have
> no other mode.
>
> I would rather a person never be sarcastic than always be. Some friends of
> mine seem
> incapable of having a real conversation because they're just twisting and
> batting words
> around instead of letting the ideas go in and for them to think and then
> respond.
>
> Just as with smack talk and "bad words" or anything, there are times and
> places, and I think
> words should be released thoughtfully, after a choice is made whether these
> are the right
> words and this is the right tone and the right time.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Schuyler
Nope, I'm guessing she meant "smack talk": http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=smack%20talk
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: k <katherand@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 October, 2008 9:10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: "Peace"--thoughts and ideas
"smack talk"
I'm assuming you meant small talk.
~Katherine
Schuyler
http://www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----- Original Message ----
From: k <katherand@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, 22 October, 2008 9:10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: "Peace"--thoughts and ideas
"smack talk"
I'm assuming you meant small talk.
~Katherine
On 10/22/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> I think sarcasm can be a problem when people use it unintentionally,
> without thinking
> whether it's a good time or not.
>
> Some people get into such a habit of being sarcastic that they seem to have
> no other mode.
>
> I would rather a person never be sarcastic than always be. Some friends of
> mine seem
> incapable of having a real conversation because they're just twisting and
> batting words
> around instead of letting the ideas go in and for them to think and then
> respond.
>
> Just as with smack talk and "bad words" or anything, there are times and
> places, and I think
> words should be released thoughtfully, after a choice is made whether these
> are the right
> words and this is the right tone and the right time.
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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