Jay

There is a boy in our homeschool group who idolizes my son.
Unfortunately, there is a personality clash and my son would prefer
not to play with this boy. This has been going on for about 4 years
now and it's just not working out. I've told my son he can't be
rude, but I don't seek out this family or this boy. But my ex does.

The mom seems to think that the boys can work it out so her son
doesn't get his feelings hurt; IMO there is no way for my son to
politely decline to play with this boy without causing hurt feelings
for both the mom and her son.

I guess I don't see the point of forcing a friendship when
personalities just don't mesh and I've said as much to the mom, which
didn't earn me any points, to say the least.

As an adult I don't socialize with people I don't like. I'm polite,
if need be, but don't seek these people out. I don't get why this
mom is so insistent our sons be friends.

Thoughts?

Jay

Margaret

If you want to know the case for doing it, ask your ex or the kid's
mom :) I can't see any reason for it.

You said that your ex seeks them out. Do you mean that she invites
them over and makes plans with their family? And this is something
that you can't change? If this is the case, perhaps you could talk to
your son and find out if there are certain kinds of things that are
less annoying to do with the kid. Going to a place where there is
something to see (science center? zoo?) or do (skate park?) might be
less annoying than an open ended playdate where he is expected to hang
out and talk with the other child the whole time. Perhaps you could
suggest to your son that he tells his mom that he would rather not
play with that child, but if she insists on making plans that he would
rather they do X.



On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Jay <jay.ford79@...> wrote:
> There is a boy in our homeschool group who idolizes my son.
> Unfortunately, there is a personality clash and my son would prefer
> not to play with this boy. This has been going on for about 4 years
> now and it's just not working out. I've told my son he can't be
> rude, but I don't seek out this family or this boy. But my ex does.
>
> The mom seems to think that the boys can work it out so her son
> doesn't get his feelings hurt; IMO there is no way for my son to
> politely decline to play with this boy without causing hurt feelings
> for both the mom and her son.
>
> I guess I don't see the point of forcing a friendship when
> personalities just don't mesh and I've said as much to the mom, which
> didn't earn me any points, to say the least.
>
> As an adult I don't socialize with people I don't like. I'm polite,
> if need be, but don't seek these people out. I don't get why this
> mom is so insistent our sons be friends.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Jay

Sandra Dodd

-=-As an adult I don't socialize with people I don't like. I'm polite,
if need be, but don't seek these people out. I don't get why this
mom is so insistent our sons be friends.

-=-Thoughts?-=-

Interpersonal and intrapersonal intelligences aren't evenly
distributed among humans. Some people don't know they're irritating
or that they're being too pushy, but luckily lots of people can find
friends who don't mind their particular quirks and tics.

I think it's leftover school assumptions that lead homeschoolers to
seek same-age, same-sex playmates. It worked better for my kids to
go by interests than age/gender.

Some parents expect that a casual friendship at a playgroup should
extend to weekend sleepovers and such, and that's difficult too.

Once after a conference, in the online debriefing and chit chit, the
mom of a 'tween girl just went off on everyone about her perception
that the girls seemed already to know each other from the year before
and were in groups and her daughter wasn't able to (I don't remember
the phrasing but something like) break into to any of the groups, and
that made it just like school, that our kids and our conference were
just like school.

I think school is the place where kids are pressed to hang out with
the kids in their class, and forbidden to socialize with kids more
than one year older or younger. The idea that someone would be
guaranteed a social life just because they were there was the
schoolish idea, in my view.

Unschooling conferences are generally filled with very friendly and
generous and welcoming people. Same with local groups, very often,
but it can't guarantee relationships and shouldn't be expected to.

Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jay

>>You said that your ex seeks them out. Do you mean that she invites
> them over and makes plans with their family?<<

My ex is pretty much on board with unschooling, but still gets
nervous that the kids aren't doing enough socially and tends to
overschedule them on the weekends. This includes not only going
places, but having people over or going to their homes to play. The
last thing they did was take a vacation to a beach house (locally)
and invited a slew of people over the course of the week to swim and
go crabbing and such. This family and kids were invited. As far as
I was told my son did play nice, but would have preferred not to have
had this boy there.

I forgot to mention that my son is 10; this boy is not quite 7. My
ex said that because my daughter (14) has liked to play with this
boy's sister (she's not quite 10) that she couldn't invite the girl
without inviting the boy. My daughter is friendly with the girl and
will play with her, but they really don't have anything in common and
my daughter doesn't usually seek to hang out with this girl either.

>
> Interpersonal and intrapersonal intelligences aren't evenly
distributed among humans. Some people don't know they're irritating
or that they're being too pushy, but luckily lots of people can find
friends who don't mind their particular quirks and tics.<<

This is true. My son has befriended other kids with quirks, kids who
had a hard time with other kids. Unfortunately he moved to the
opposite coast.

>>It worked better for my kids to go by interests than age/gender.<<

I agree. My son is very into WOW at the moment but finds that most
of the kids we know aren't allowed to play. Most of the people my
son plays with wrt WOW are adults.

My son is a lot like me in that while he does like to be with other
people to a certain extent, he's a bit more introverted and likes to
do more solo activities and needs more down time. As a kid myself,
my parents, my mom especially, thought my 'shyness' was something she
needed to fix, so went overboard trying to make me more social. I'm
not antisocial, but I do limit my social activities. I believe my ex
feels the same way about my son; and because he's not in school
hanging with kids all day he needs to get out there more and
socialize, hence the invites and overscheduling.


>>Same with local groups, very often,but it can't guarantee
relationships and shouldn't be expected to.<<

I agree.

Jay

Sandra Dodd

>>It worked better for my kids to go by interests than age/gender.<<

I agree. My son is very into WOW at the moment but finds that most
of the kids we know aren't allowed to play. Most of the people my
son plays with wrt WOW are adults.

My son is a lot like me in that while he does like to be with other
people to a certain extent, he's a bit more introverted and likes to
do more solo activities and needs more down time.

==========================================



Maybe someone has already mentioned the unschoolers' WoW guild...

He could stay home AND socialize. With unschoolers!



Sandra






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

I'm not really understanding what Jay is asking.

Is the child complaining and asking Jay to step in and talk to his ex
about not including the boy and not over-scheduling socially?
Is the child complaining and Jay wants to know how to respond, given
that it is out of his (Jay's) control?
Is Jay looking for ammunition to use against his ex as proof that
she's not as considerate and kind a parent as he is?

It is hard enough to live together and co-parent, but when you live
separately, you give up having almost any say-so over what goes on
during the other parent's time with the child. Honestly, if the worst
is over-scheduling the child's social life, that's pretty lucky. We
can't tell, from here, what's really going on. Maybe Jay is
overreacting because Jay would feel over-scheduled and resentful under
the same circumstances, but maybe the son is fine. Maybe the son has a
perfectly good time with the other kid and with his social schedule,
but complains to Jay because he senses that Jay wants to hear him
complain about his ex. Who knows? We don't, but that's a very common
scenario.

It feels like the conversation is about how wrong Jay's ex is to do
this to their son, but I don't see what good that kind of conversation
can do.

All of us sometimes get stuck in a social situation with someone we're
not crazy about because other family members have connections in that
family. I'm not saying to do it on purpose to a kid (for their own
good). But it naturally happens. I'm hearing that this is an annoying
young child who pesters Jay's son, not a bully who is threatening him
or anything like that.

I'd say Jay's best option is to support the child in speaking up for
himself and making his own wants and needs clear. Maybe do some role
playing with him on how to handle the annoying child, how to find ways
to enjoy himself. Maybe he could take a book to read or a laptop to
watch a dvd on or a handheld game to sit and play on his own. I have
three kids - one is SUPER social and one is very reserved (the other
is in between). So, yeah, the reserved child did end up with over-
scheduled social life and spending time with other kids who annoyed
her, but she learned to create her own little oasis for herself
wherever we went. Sometimes we'd find her alone up in a tree.


-pam


On Sep 30, 2008, at 4:35 AM, Jay wrote:

> I believe my ex
> feels the same way about my son; and because he's not in school
> hanging with kids all day he needs to get out there more and
> socialize, hence the invites and overscheduling.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

lyeping2008

Hi Jay,

A few days ago, I had to have a "not very nice talk" to another
child's mum about her son "not being very nice", because my kid's
decided he doesn't want to be friends anymore.

The point here is, if your son is really fed-up wtih this kid, then he
should tell mum, if he feels so strongly about it. Your kid needs to
understand that he doesn't have to put up with it. He can politely
excuse himself to somewhere else when this kid is around.

SharonBugs.

Jay

I've mentioned that to him before, but I think it (the unschooler's
guild) was in another realm than where he's playing? Can someone
refresh my memory where that was?

My son does play with his uncle online a lot also.

Jay

>
>
>
> Maybe someone has already mentioned the unschoolers' WoW guild...
>
> He could stay home AND socialize. With unschoolers!
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Jay

> I'm not really understanding what Jay is asking.
>
> Is the child complaining and asking Jay to step in and talk to his
ex
> about not including the boy and not over-scheduling socially?
> Is the child complaining and Jay wants to know how to respond,
given
> that it is out of his (Jay's) control?

No, the other boy's mom is complaining to me and my ex how our son
keeps shunning her son, and now that my son is attending the same
homeschool coop she wants 'the boys to come to an understanding and
play nice and keep the coop pleasant for everyone' (her words). And
she has commented to me that my ex told her that my son had a
negative reaction about her son visiting with my ex and a group of
other people/kids at the beach -- when word was the kids played
wonderfully and had fun crabbing together.

It's the mom of the other kid that seems to want to force a
friendship, and I'm more looking for guidance from other unschoolers
who let their kids make their own decisions about things rather than
the traditional parenting thing of making kids hang with people they
may not like just because they're 'supposed to.'
> Is Jay looking for ammunition to use against his ex as proof that
> she's not as considerate and kind a parent as he is?

Not at all. My ex and I have an extremely amicable relationship. My
concern is that she is a bit more swayed by the 'have-tos' of
parenting and that this mom will try to force the issue with her,
because they like to socialize. I want to protect my son from being
made to feel bad just because he has a personality clash with this
other boy.
>
> It is hard enough to live together and co-parent, but when you
live
> separately, you give up having almost any say-so over what goes on
> during the other parent's time with the child. Honestly, if the
worst
> is over-scheduling the child's social life, that's pretty lucky.

The kids do enjoy a lot of the activities they do with my ex, but
when they come to me M-F they are a bit burnt out and just want to
chill and hang out and relax more.
We
> can't tell, from here, what's really going on. Maybe Jay is
> overreacting because Jay would feel over-scheduled and resentful
under
> the same circumstances, but maybe the son is fine. Maybe the son
has a
> perfectly good time with the other kid and with his social
schedule,
> but complains to Jay because he senses that Jay wants to hear him
> complain about his ex. Who knows? We don't, but that's a very
common
> scenario.

No. The ex and I talk daily and email and have a very good
relationship. It's not about who's the better parent but just making
sure we're both aware of the issues with this boy and our son, and
it's more about making sure my son is comfortable here, there, and at
the homeschool coop.
>
> It feels like the conversation is about how wrong Jay's ex is to
do
> this to their son, but I don't see what good that kind of
conversation
> can do.

Not that she's wrong, but that she just be aware of how our son feels
when this boy comes over. Not that they can't socialize, but that my
son isn't made to feel bad about not being best buddies with this
boy, esp. by the other mom. My ex is a great parent but is a bit
less secure in things unschooling and can be swayed a bit easier to
parenting more traditionally and following the 'have-tos'. I'm just
trying to advocate for my son.
>
> All of us sometimes get stuck in a social situation with someone
we're
> not crazy about because other family members have connections in
that
> family. I'm not saying to do it on purpose to a kid (for their
own
> good). But it naturally happens. I'm hearing that this is an
annoying
> young child who pesters Jay's son, not a bully who is threatening
him
> or anything like that.

Exactly. I'm all for my son learning how to deal with situations
where he may not be thrilled about having to hang out with someone he
may not like, but give him tools to help him deal with it politely so
nobody's feelings get hurt. The other mom is making my son out to be
the bad guy because he doesn't like her son, and that's what I want
to protect my son from that. (not that I can, but make my ex aware
that it's happening)
>
> I'd say Jay's best option is to support the child in speaking up
for
> himself and making his own wants and needs clear. Maybe do some
role
> playing with him on how to handle the annoying child, how to find
ways
> to enjoy himself.

Exactly what we're working on. It's the mom's wanting the forced
interaction; and I just want to make sure that my ex is okay with our
son doing his own thing if he chooses and not have to entertain this
boy when he visits. Or they can do group things (like they did at
the beach) so they're doing the same thing but not having direct
interaction.

Jay

Jay

>
> The point here is, if your son is really fed-up wtih this kid, then
he
> should tell mum, if he feels so strongly about it. Your kid needs to
> understand that he doesn't have to put up with it. He can politely
> excuse himself to somewhere else when this kid is around.
>
> SharonBugs.

Thanks. This is what I was looking for, that it IS okay for my son to
do this and not 'have to' because it does make him uncomfortable.

Jay

Lyla Wolfenstein

yeah that is a problem too, for my son - who is also introverted in similar ways. he plays wow, mostly with his dad, a little alone, and most of his local friends are either not allowed to play or are in different realms, or are in categories - i can't remember the two major categories of players - what they are called - but alliance and horde?
lol - obviously i don't play - but anyhow, my son is in the "wrong" one for everyone we know, including the unschoolers guild....

and i guess now that he's built up a character, its hard to want to switch...wish i understood it better to get what the different options might be...


----- Original Message -----
From: Jay
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 2:41 PM
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Forcing Friendships - Why?


I've mentioned that to him before, but I think it (the unschooler's
guild) was in another realm than where he's playing? Can someone
refresh my memory where that was?
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jill Parmer

On Sep 30, 2008, at 3:41 PM, Jay wrote:

> but I think it (the unschooler's
> guild) was in another realm than where he's playing? Can someone
> refresh my memory where that was?

The Venture Co (it's a pvp realm), guild name....Horde of Unschoolers


>
>
> My son does play with his uncle online a lot also.

That's sweet. My kids play with my sister a fair amount and it's
been a great way to stay in touch with her.

~Jill

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Sep 30, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Jay wrote:

> Thanks. This is what I was looking for, that it IS okay for my son to
> do this and not 'have to' because it does make him uncomfortable.



I thought I'd go back to your original post, because I can't help
wondering what the real problem is. I just can't believe you really
needed someone here to say it is okay for your son to decide for
himself if and when he wants or doesn't want to play with someone else?

Why would that not be completely obvious?

<<There is a boy in our homeschool group who idolizes my son.
Unfortunately, there is a personality clash and my son would prefer
not to play with this boy. >>

If the group is large, he can possibly somewhat avoid him, but if it
is a small group it would be very meanspirited for your son to exclude
that boy from playing with the group just because he doesn't like him.
Your son should take other things to do so that he can go off on his
own and get a break from the other boy, perhaps. But, at a homeschool
group activity, I think that mostly kids should be asked to be
inclusive. This advice doesn't apply if there is a serious issue such
as a child being violent or really mean in some way.

<< This has been going on for about 4 years now and it's just not
working out. >>

Since they were 2 and 6 years old?

<<For four years this I've told my son he can't be
rude, but I don't seek out this family or this boy. But my ex does.>>

Has your son not mentioned to her that he doesn't like this kid? She
doesn't care? She thinks he does like him really? She thinks....wait,
don't bother to tell me what you think she thinks...let her come and
ask herself, if she wants, though. Again, what she decides to do is up
to her. If she has the same information you have but decides to make
plans that include that family anyway, then either she doesn't care or
doesn't really believe him or thinks it isn't that much to ask him to
be nice to the kid on occasion so that the families can get together.

Unless you think she just needs you to say, "Someone on an unschooling
list said kids should be able to decide for themselves if they want or
don't want to play with another kid."

Maybe he needs more help in how to say he doesn't want to play right
now without being rude. Telling him not to be rude might seem, to him,
like saying he has to suck it up and play with the kid whether he
likes it or not.

<<The mom seems to think that the boys can work it out so her son
doesn't get his feelings hurt; IMO there is no way for my son to
politely decline to play with this boy without causing hurt feelings
for both the mom and her son.>>

This really makes no sense. He can say, "I'd like to be by myself
right now." He can sit and read a book or play with his handheld
videogame or whatever. What's so hard or rude about that?


<<I guess I don't see the point of forcing a friendship when
personalities just don't mesh and I've said as much to the mom, which
didn't earn me any points, to say the least.>>

I've said, more than a few times, "Well, they're not hitting it off
right now, but maybe they will in the future." THAT is the reality of
what I've observed with kids, over and over and over. They may not get
along now, but in a few months one or both might move into a new
developmental stage or one or the other might develop a new interest
that appeals to the other. Be realistic and leave the possibility open.

<<As an adult I don't socialize with people I don't like. I'm polite,
if need be, but don't seek these people out.>>

There is a difference between not seeking them out versus being
together at homeschool events and telling the kid "I don't like you
and don't want to be your friend now or ever and stay away from me at
homeschooling group activities."

<<I don't get why this mom is so insistent our sons be friends.>>

Because her son likes yours and my guess is that the daughter likes
your daughter and the mom likes your ex and so it works out nicely if
only your son would go along with the program (which he apparently
does and then complains to you later). Is the younger child not liked
by others? Has some personality characteristics that are difficult to
tolerate? How often is he stuck playing with him? How many other kids
are around when this is happening - are they part of a group and is he
wanting to exclude that kid from the group so that he doesn't have to
play with him?

-pam

Sandra Dodd

-=-and i guess now that he's built up a character, its hard to want
to switch...wish i understood it better to get what the different
options might be...-=-

The WoW players in the other room say you can have up to ten
characters per realm on one account, and be on more than one realm,
too. Fifty characters maximum per account, they say.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

Jay, I'm "hearing" two things.

First that you are concerned that your ex isn't hearing your son when he
expresses his desires, or that she is minimizing the seriousness of his
expression, and that you are looking for ways to impress upon her the
intensity of your son's feelings, as you see them, about this friend issue.

Second that you would like to be able to coach your ex in some useful
phrases to help her nicely deter the other kid's mom from insisting on
individual playdates.

Does that sound right?

For the first concern - you mention that you and she converse a lot. Maybe
you should have a meeting with all three of you so that you can both hear
out what your son wants with clarity rather than reporting "he said to
me..." back and forth, and maybe brainstorm some other ideas for things that
he and your ex can do on the weekends that don't involve this other boy.

When I discovered that Jayn did not want to play with another unschooled
child, I was lucky to be able to just be straightforward and honest with the
other mom. She is a radical unschooler, and very thoughtful about children.
She understood that this wasn't a criticism of her son, and that I was
really sorry about the situation. She offered to help mediate talking but
was so kind and understanding when Jayn didn't want to talk over whatever
the problem is.

With people who aren't unschoolers it's harder. I just gave, I believe,
exactly the same advice to try the phrase "not a good fit at the moment" and
in this case you can use the age/maturity difference in your favor.

I have also told another mom that Jayn and her daughter were "having a hard
time coming to a consensus on what to play". In that situation I really
believe that the other girl had just stopped being interested in playing
with Jayn, for whatever unknown reason, and that is why they really couldn't
agree on what to play. The other girl would say that she was "tired" and
just lie down not interacting, and Jayn would get bored and frustrated
trying to draw her out. They have been alright in group situations, and that
is what I said.

It's important to keep the focus on your son in the conversations rather
than her little boy. "My son is feeling stressed. He's more of an introvert
and needs less socializing...he has enough activities during the week so we
need to pull back a little on the weekend...My son isn't ready to handle the
needs of a younger boy since he's still maturing himself..." or the old
standby of simply not choosing to explain yourself at all: "I'm sorry we
can't make it" and then stop (the hardest thing to do of all!). If the other
mother wants more explanation, "It's a shame we have other commitments, but
we'll be at [group event] next weekend." Anyone who demanded to know what
those other commitments are is just plain rude.

It boils down to the fact that you can't really control your ex, and you
can't control the relationship she has with your son. All you can do is make
your best suggestions and support your son when he comes home to his
unschooling nest. At least she is not trying to insist he go to school.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

Jay

I think you're reading way too much into my posts. :)

I know there isn't an issue with letting my son beg off playing with
this boy; yes there have been years of this, where the boys were
expected to play together and yes in the past my son got very annoyed
with this kid and was rude to him.

We just joined the coop last week; this weekend I get the email from
the mom how very hurt she was that my son had a negative reaction to
her son (which I have no idea what she's talking about as I was with
my son the whole time and he never even spoke to her son).

My concern is the trouble she's making out of the whole thing,
wanting to force the friendship. She's telling me my son was
negative toward hers when with my ex, when my ex says he plays fine.

I was just looking for some backup here because my ex can be easily
swayed toward more traditional parenting approaches (bedtimes,
limiting foods, tv, computers, and forcing friendships) by other
traditional parents than I am; I do sometimes need to reassure her
that what we're doing (yes, we coparent pretty darn well considering
the circumstances) is okay, that we're not screwing our kids up by
not making them do all these things other parents say they need to do.

Other than the homeschool coop, most of the stuff happens when I'm
not around (when this family is visiting my ex or vice versa). My
son gets down because he's made out to be the bad guy by not sucking
it up to play with this kid.

It's been well known my son doesn't want to play with him; the issues
go back years. That's what I don't get, why out of a huge homeschool
coop this mom emails me and wants the boys to play together nicely at
coop. There are at least 70+ others there. Then gets my ex involved
(complains to her about me and about me to her).

Jay

--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 30, 2008, at 3:04 PM, Jay wrote:
>
> > Thanks. This is what I was looking for, that it IS okay for my
son to
> > do this and not 'have to' because it does make him uncomfortable.
>
>
>
> I thought I'd go back to your original post, because I can't help
> wondering what the real problem is. I just can't believe you
really
> needed someone here to say it is okay for your son to decide for
> himself if and when he wants or doesn't want to play with someone
else?
>
> Why would that not be completely obvious?
>
> <<There is a boy in our homeschool group who idolizes my son.
> Unfortunately, there is a personality clash and my son would prefer
> not to play with this boy. >>
>
> If the group is large, he can possibly somewhat avoid him, but if
it
> is a small group it would be very meanspirited for your son to
exclude
> that boy from playing with the group just because he doesn't like
him.
> Your son should take other things to do so that he can go off on
his
> own and get a break from the other boy, perhaps. But, at a
homeschool
> group activity, I think that mostly kids should be asked to be
> inclusive. This advice doesn't apply if there is a serious issue
such
> as a child being violent or really mean in some way.
>
> << This has been going on for about 4 years now and it's just not
> working out. >>
>
> Since they were 2 and 6 years old?
>
> <<For four years this I've told my son he can't be
> rude, but I don't seek out this family or this boy. But my ex
does.>>
>
> Has your son not mentioned to her that he doesn't like this kid?
She
> doesn't care? She thinks he does like him really? She
thinks....wait,
> don't bother to tell me what you think she thinks...let her come
and
> ask herself, if she wants, though. Again, what she decides to do is
up
> to her. If she has the same information you have but decides to
make
> plans that include that family anyway, then either she doesn't care
or
> doesn't really believe him or thinks it isn't that much to ask him
to
> be nice to the kid on occasion so that the families can get
together.
>
> Unless you think she just needs you to say, "Someone on an
unschooling
> list said kids should be able to decide for themselves if they want
or
> don't want to play with another kid."
>
> Maybe he needs more help in how to say he doesn't want to play
right
> now without being rude. Telling him not to be rude might seem, to
him,
> like saying he has to suck it up and play with the kid whether he
> likes it or not.
>
> <<The mom seems to think that the boys can work it out so her son
> doesn't get his feelings hurt; IMO there is no way for my son to
> politely decline to play with this boy without causing hurt feelings
> for both the mom and her son.>>
>
> This really makes no sense. He can say, "I'd like to be by myself
> right now." He can sit and read a book or play with his handheld
> videogame or whatever. What's so hard or rude about that?
>
>
> <<I guess I don't see the point of forcing a friendship when
> personalities just don't mesh and I've said as much to the mom,
which
> didn't earn me any points, to say the least.>>
>
> I've said, more than a few times, "Well, they're not hitting it
off
> right now, but maybe they will in the future." THAT is the reality
of
> what I've observed with kids, over and over and over. They may not
get
> along now, but in a few months one or both might move into a new
> developmental stage or one or the other might develop a new
interest
> that appeals to the other. Be realistic and leave the possibility
open.
>
> <<As an adult I don't socialize with people I don't like. I'm
polite,
> if need be, but don't seek these people out.>>
>
> There is a difference between not seeking them out versus being
> together at homeschool events and telling the kid "I don't like
you
> and don't want to be your friend now or ever and stay away from me
at
> homeschooling group activities."
>
> <<I don't get why this mom is so insistent our sons be friends.>>
>
> Because her son likes yours and my guess is that the daughter
likes
> your daughter and the mom likes your ex and so it works out nicely
if
> only your son would go along with the program (which he apparently
> does and then complains to you later). Is the younger child not
liked
> by others? Has some personality characteristics that are difficult
to
> tolerate? How often is he stuck playing with him? How many other
kids
> are around when this is happening - are they part of a group and is
he
> wanting to exclude that kid from the group so that he doesn't have
to
> play with him?
>
> -pam
>

Sandra Dodd

-=-We just joined the coop last week-=-

A co-op with 70+ kids expected to all behave as a group sounds quite
a bit like school.
I thought you were talking about a park day.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<< I thought you were talking about a park day.>>>>

I thought you were talking about family playdates.

Sounds to me like it would be a good opportunity for a drop off of the girl
and some special mom/son time for your ex and son. Except that it sounded
like the other mom wanted a kid to occupy the boy at the same time as her
girl was being occupied by your daughter, so she could have mom-chat time.

Now I'm thinking what you really want are ways to encourage your ex to stay
on an unschooling path even though she seems to be drifting. For that I have
no suggestions, I'm afraid.


Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

Robyn L. Coburn

<<<<> It's been well known my son doesn't want to play with him; the issues
> go back years. That's what I don't get, why out of a huge homeschool
> coop this mom emails me and wants the boys to play together nicely at
> coop. There are at least 70+ others there.>>>>

Maybe that is the question you should be asking her - why she is so
determined that the playmate be your son ahead of any of the others.

Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

Pamela Sorooshian

On Sep 30, 2008, at 7:58 PM, Jay wrote:

> I think you're reading way too much into my posts. :)

No - really just fishing to try to figure out what might help you.
I've given so much thought to these kinds of kid social issues, been
through a couple of them that were pretty traumatic for a while and
learned a LOT from the experiences.

I'm hoping Robyn's suggestions do it for you - they seemed right on to
me, if her underlying assumptions were correct.

So - is the reason your son doesn't like the other kid actually
because the younger kid pesters him for attention? Or is there
something else?

Do you think maybe the kid pesters him even more because your son is
ignoring him (having been told not to be rude, maybe ignoring him is
his only recourse)?

Again, just tossing out ideas. You said your son wasn't rude to him
when you were with him, but I think you also said he didn't pay any
attention to him, which could be construed as being rude if the child
was wanting his attention.

I wouldn't want to support my child being mean to a younger child who
looked up to him or her, but at the same time wouldn't want my child
to feel stuck having to spend very much time with a kid he/she didn't
enjoy being around. That seems like your dilemma, too, right? So that
part I totally understand.

Rosie (my 17 yo) has a LOT of young "fans" because she teaches karate
classes that include a lot of young children. Lots are homeschooled
and are at social activities with us, too. I've heard her say, very
sweetly but firmly, "Okay, I'm going to play this game with you just
ONE more time and then you're going to go play with --another kid--
and I'm going to do something else, right?" She loves the kids, but
doesn't necessarily want to spend hours and hours playing with them
instead of hanging out with the other older kids. She gets down on the
floor, looks them in the eye, and says, "I don't want to play right
now, but later I will play xyz with you." And she does. Maybe because
they have that teacher/student martial arts relationship, too, they
always seem to accept what she offers. Well, that and she really does
like them, so I'm sure they can feel that.

Because it doesn't sound like the younger child is a bully or
anything, I really suggest that you stick to counseling your son how
to handle it himself unless he specifically asks you to do something.
Is HE asking you to do something about it? Is HE even asking you to
talk to his mother about it? Sometimes kids want to be able to
complain, but don't necessarily want you to take care of the problem
for them. That's such a manly thing to want to do, solve the problem
for your child. He might be better off if you resist that urge,
though. Anyway - something to consider.

-pam