Still learning bare with me...
Nina
Ok have done a bit of reading and i understand the concept of
unschooling and how this approach to learning can work.
I have afew very simplistic questions though and I beg tolerance from
you all for my ignorance....
Firstly...
If you have children who you fear will never write of their own accord
do you find ways to have them write even though they aren't initiating
it themselves?
When it comes to math if a child doesn't initiate learning in this are
beyond the most basic functions how do you teach it without
compromising your unschooling philosophy?
Currently we use a range of curricular materials to teach English and
writing and math but everything else is what I consider to be
unschooling in that I read aloud to the kids and anything beyond that
is optional. If they don't want to listen to me reading then they are
expected to play quietly near by so at least they can hear me.
Blessings
Nina
unschooling and how this approach to learning can work.
I have afew very simplistic questions though and I beg tolerance from
you all for my ignorance....
Firstly...
If you have children who you fear will never write of their own accord
do you find ways to have them write even though they aren't initiating
it themselves?
When it comes to math if a child doesn't initiate learning in this are
beyond the most basic functions how do you teach it without
compromising your unschooling philosophy?
Currently we use a range of curricular materials to teach English and
writing and math but everything else is what I consider to be
unschooling in that I read aloud to the kids and anything beyond that
is optional. If they don't want to listen to me reading then they are
expected to play quietly near by so at least they can hear me.
Blessings
Nina
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<<> Ok have done a bit of reading and i understand the concept of
"understand" it or you wouldn't need to ask these particular questions.
There is tons of really good reading material for you at
www.sandradodd.com/unschooling helpfully sorted into topics. All topics
lead to others. Start almost anywhere.
<<<< If you have children who you fear will never>>>
Unschooling has freed me from fear.
Truly.
<<<<how do you teach it without
that wasted minute.
<<<< Currently we use a range of curricular materials to teach English and
"We eat eggs and some chicken, but our diet is what I consider to be vegan,
in that I put out platters of cheese and anything beyond that is opitional.
If they don't want to swallow then they are expected to put the cheese on
their plate so at least they can smell and taste it."
Get the picture?
If you don't want to unschool then don't, but really for the sake of your
internal clarity, don't call what you are doing "unschooling". You're not,
yet. You could though.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
> unschooling and how this approach to learning can work. >>>>You have read enough to have a slight idea but not enough yet to
"understand" it or you wouldn't need to ask these particular questions.
There is tons of really good reading material for you at
www.sandradodd.com/unschooling helpfully sorted into topics. All topics
lead to others. Start almost anywhere.
<<<< If you have children who you fear will never>>>
Unschooling has freed me from fear.
Truly.
<<<<how do you teach it without
> compromising your unschooling philosophy? >>>>We don't teach anything. The minute you do, you are not unschooling during
that wasted minute.
<<<< Currently we use a range of curricular materials to teach English and
> writing and math but everything else is what I consider to beHmmm...
> unschooling in that I read aloud to the kids and anything beyond that
> is optional. If they don't want to listen to me reading then they are
> expected to play quietly near by so at least they can hear me.>>>
"We eat eggs and some chicken, but our diet is what I consider to be vegan,
in that I put out platters of cheese and anything beyond that is opitional.
If they don't want to swallow then they are expected to put the cheese on
their plate so at least they can smell and taste it."
Get the picture?
If you don't want to unschool then don't, but really for the sake of your
internal clarity, don't call what you are doing "unschooling". You're not,
yet. You could though.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Pamela Sorooshian
>First, stop for a bit and think about writing - what IS it, really?
> If you have children who you fear will never write of their own accord
> do you find ways to have them write even though they aren't initiating
> it themselves?
What type of writing are you concerned with? Are you worried about the
mechanics of penmanship? Or are you thinking about their ability to
express themselves? For what purposes? Is it for making a shopping
list or writing a letter to Grandma or write a book report? Are you
talking about young kids, but worried about their ability to write an
essay for college? Really stop right now, before you continue reading
this response, and think for yourself about writing - maybe stop and
write us a post in which you describe the kinds of writing you think
your children ought to be doing and how they'd benefit and why it
seems important to you.
We can't really answer the question as you asked it, because you
assumed the existence of fear. Experienced unschoolers simply don't
have that fear anymore. But, you might really want to know why we
don't have that fear, right? So I suggest that the question you ought
to be asking is, "For those whose kids don't write of their own
accord, why are you NOT worried that your non-writing children are
not, in fact, writing?" Also, "Do you find ways to get them to write?"
is a legitimate question and probably not as simple as some people
might think.
Why don't you go ahead with my suggestion above and then come back and
ask the other questions.
Same for math. Exactly what math learning are you worrying about and
why?
We can talk in generalities, but it would help you most if we could be
very specific.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-Ok have done a bit of reading and i understand the concept of
unschooling and how this approach to learning can work. -=-
You took a peek and have a glimpse, but if you understood how it
could work, you wouldn't have written the rest of your post! No
matter. I'm sure people will have given you some great suggestions by
now. :-)
One thing that helps with understanding natural learning is examining
your language and thoughts in the areas of teaching, learning,
knowing and understanding. It seems like that's something for an
extra day years down the line, but if you do it up front, you'll have
LOTS more extra days down the line.
http://sandradodd.com/teaching
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
unschooling and how this approach to learning can work. -=-
You took a peek and have a glimpse, but if you understood how it
could work, you wouldn't have written the rest of your post! No
matter. I'm sure people will have given you some great suggestions by
now. :-)
One thing that helps with understanding natural learning is examining
your language and thoughts in the areas of teaching, learning,
knowing and understanding. It seems like that's something for an
extra day years down the line, but if you do it up front, you'll have
LOTS more extra days down the line.
http://sandradodd.com/teaching
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> If you have children who you fear will never write of their own
accord
unschooler.
I have three children who DO write, who weren't taught to write, nor
did I find ways to have them write.
It might seem like a magic show if you only see the teens without
knowing how they got to that point, but we're teaching all these
magic tricks every day! :-)
http://sandradodd.com/writing
Holly, especially, is very artistic in her writing. Kirby resisted
hearing about the mechanics of writing until recently. He's 22
(well, he's 21 in Texas until October 30, because they made an error
on his driver's license), and lately he truly does care. He needed
to submit a writing sample at work when he was applying for a
supervisory position, and he began then to really want to be
technically good. He called me about semi-colons. I explained it
and the next time he used one he sent it to me and asked if it was
right. It was. I've sent him a couple of candid uses of my own, and
told him why I used them.
For a mom who isn't sure about the how and why of semi-colons, there
are webpages galore, and books. It's also easy to avoid using semi-
colons for one's entire lifetime.
There are some writing samples and stories at the link above.
Here's a teeny recent sample of Holly's writing. She was expressing
herself candidly about a frustration about which I found her crying.
I was really sad for her.
"For the last two weeks I've been playing a new game of Harvest Moon
(a wonderful life) and it'd been really great, and I was going to
marry Nami, and my cow was pregnant, and I think it was already
winter, and I was working on getting a lot of chickens, and I had
some trees planted, and a lot of fish in my pack. So yeah today I
saved my old game over it accidentally. I'm pretty pissed and
embarrassed and discouraged. I think I want to start a new game."
She could have cleaned this writing up if she had needed to, but this
is the way it came out. She types REALLY fast, with her two middle
fingers, by the way. She texts on the phone, and she's used instant
messages for years. She uses writing in real ways, in dynamic and
immediate ways, which is more than can be said for most people. Her
handwriting isn't pretty, for lack of practice. She hasn't been
living in pen-and-paper world, and honestly, she never needs to if
she doesn't want to.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
accord
> do you find ways to have them write even though they aren'tinitiating
> it themselves?-=-If I had children I feared would never write, I wouldn't be an
unschooler.
I have three children who DO write, who weren't taught to write, nor
did I find ways to have them write.
It might seem like a magic show if you only see the teens without
knowing how they got to that point, but we're teaching all these
magic tricks every day! :-)
http://sandradodd.com/writing
Holly, especially, is very artistic in her writing. Kirby resisted
hearing about the mechanics of writing until recently. He's 22
(well, he's 21 in Texas until October 30, because they made an error
on his driver's license), and lately he truly does care. He needed
to submit a writing sample at work when he was applying for a
supervisory position, and he began then to really want to be
technically good. He called me about semi-colons. I explained it
and the next time he used one he sent it to me and asked if it was
right. It was. I've sent him a couple of candid uses of my own, and
told him why I used them.
For a mom who isn't sure about the how and why of semi-colons, there
are webpages galore, and books. It's also easy to avoid using semi-
colons for one's entire lifetime.
There are some writing samples and stories at the link above.
Here's a teeny recent sample of Holly's writing. She was expressing
herself candidly about a frustration about which I found her crying.
I was really sad for her.
"For the last two weeks I've been playing a new game of Harvest Moon
(a wonderful life) and it'd been really great, and I was going to
marry Nami, and my cow was pregnant, and I think it was already
winter, and I was working on getting a lot of chickens, and I had
some trees planted, and a lot of fish in my pack. So yeah today I
saved my old game over it accidentally. I'm pretty pissed and
embarrassed and discouraged. I think I want to start a new game."
She could have cleaned this writing up if she had needed to, but this
is the way it came out. She types REALLY fast, with her two middle
fingers, by the way. She texts on the phone, and she's used instant
messages for years. She uses writing in real ways, in dynamic and
immediate ways, which is more than can be said for most people. Her
handwriting isn't pretty, for lack of practice. She hasn't been
living in pen-and-paper world, and honestly, she never needs to if
she doesn't want to.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nina
--- In [email protected], "Robyn L. Coburn" <dezigna@...>
wrote:
does no formal teaching at all Not only that but she believes that
children will learn all life skills, morals, behaviour and values
without the need for discipline or teaching of any sort from her. I know
that this approach would not work for me.
I have another friend who teaches math and reads aloud to her kids daily
having them narrate orally to here to assess their understanding,
anything else they learn or study is upon their own initiative. She
provides a range of resourses and materials which are available should
the children desire to make use of them but which are not compulsary.
She considers herself an unschooler. I think this approach could work
for me but I wont know for sure until I learn a little more.
I know another lady who plans activities to do with their kids on a
daily basis based on their childs interests and actively extends their
understanding whilst they are participating in these activities. She
also encourages them to come up with their own activities and then she
looks for teachable moments in which she can extend their learning she
too considers herself and unschooler. This too could work for me once I
am a little more knowledgable and can have my concerns and questions
answerred to my satisfaction.
So my understanding of unschooling at this stage is that it varies from
family to family but that it centers on the interests of the children
rather than the educational goals of the parents. Am I right?
Yes I know I'm not unschooling at this stage of our journey and I don't
know for certain if I want to or not yet. As I said I am still
learning, but I hope that by being a member of this group I will learn
enough to make an educated decision. So I am keen to hear about others
personal experiences rather than just reading general philosophies
online.
So as I said bare with me, As I said, I'm still learning.
Blessings
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wrote:
>your
> If you don't want to unschool then don't, but really for the sake of
> internal clarity, don't call what you are doing "unschooling". You'renot,
> yet. You could though.I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler and
does no formal teaching at all Not only that but she believes that
children will learn all life skills, morals, behaviour and values
without the need for discipline or teaching of any sort from her. I know
that this approach would not work for me.
I have another friend who teaches math and reads aloud to her kids daily
having them narrate orally to here to assess their understanding,
anything else they learn or study is upon their own initiative. She
provides a range of resourses and materials which are available should
the children desire to make use of them but which are not compulsary.
She considers herself an unschooler. I think this approach could work
for me but I wont know for sure until I learn a little more.
I know another lady who plans activities to do with their kids on a
daily basis based on their childs interests and actively extends their
understanding whilst they are participating in these activities. She
also encourages them to come up with their own activities and then she
looks for teachable moments in which she can extend their learning she
too considers herself and unschooler. This too could work for me once I
am a little more knowledgable and can have my concerns and questions
answerred to my satisfaction.
So my understanding of unschooling at this stage is that it varies from
family to family but that it centers on the interests of the children
rather than the educational goals of the parents. Am I right?
Yes I know I'm not unschooling at this stage of our journey and I don't
know for certain if I want to or not yet. As I said I am still
learning, but I hope that by being a member of this group I will learn
enough to make an educated decision. So I am keen to hear about others
personal experiences rather than just reading general philosophies
online.
So as I said bare with me, As I said, I'm still learning.
Blessings
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler and
does no formal teaching at all Not only that but she believes that
children will learn all life skills, morals, behaviour and values
without the need for discipline or teaching of any sort from her. I know
that this approach would not work for me.-=-
If you already know what will and won't work for you, why are you here?
-=-I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler
and does no formal teaching at all .-=-
I do no formal teaching at all. My children have never been to
school. They are 22, 19 and 16.
-=-Not only that but she believes that children will learn all life
skills, morals, behaviour and values without the need for discipline
or teaching of any sort from her. -=-
Does she believe that? Perhaps it's because she is neither
"disciplining" nor teaching her children formally, and they have
learned life skills, morals and values. My children have. I know
fifty other families in which it's true, too. I know ZERO other
families whose children are as aware and together and whole and
mature as the children in those unschooling families.
-=-I know that this approach would not work for me.-=-
This is a quote from the beginning of my deschooling page:
*************************
Once upon a time a confident and experienced scholar went to the best
Zen teacher he knew, to apply to be his student. The master offered
tea, and he held out his cup. While the student recited his knowledge
and cataloged his accomplishments to date, the master poured slowly.
The bragging continued, and the pouring continued, until the student
was getting a lapful of tea, and said, �My cup is full!� The master
smiled and said, �Yes, it is. And until you empty yourself of what
you think you know, you won�t be able to learn.�
Weird Al says it a different way in �Everything You Know is Wrong,�
and Christians say �You must surrender yourself.� Before that Jesus
said, �Unless you become as a little child��
What it means in homeschooling terms is that as long as you think you
can control and add to what you already know, it will be hard to come
to unschooling. The more quickly you empty your cup and open yourself
to new ideas uncritically, the sooner you will see natural learning
blossom.
So much for philosophy and buildup. How can this be done? Can it work
for former teachers? What about engineers who are sure their children
need lots of math in an organized fashion? What about moms who love
schedules and organization?
Deschooling is needed much more by parents than by
children.********************
The rest is here:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
does no formal teaching at all Not only that but she believes that
children will learn all life skills, morals, behaviour and values
without the need for discipline or teaching of any sort from her. I know
that this approach would not work for me.-=-
If you already know what will and won't work for you, why are you here?
-=-I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler
and does no formal teaching at all .-=-
I do no formal teaching at all. My children have never been to
school. They are 22, 19 and 16.
-=-Not only that but she believes that children will learn all life
skills, morals, behaviour and values without the need for discipline
or teaching of any sort from her. -=-
Does she believe that? Perhaps it's because she is neither
"disciplining" nor teaching her children formally, and they have
learned life skills, morals and values. My children have. I know
fifty other families in which it's true, too. I know ZERO other
families whose children are as aware and together and whole and
mature as the children in those unschooling families.
-=-I know that this approach would not work for me.-=-
This is a quote from the beginning of my deschooling page:
*************************
Once upon a time a confident and experienced scholar went to the best
Zen teacher he knew, to apply to be his student. The master offered
tea, and he held out his cup. While the student recited his knowledge
and cataloged his accomplishments to date, the master poured slowly.
The bragging continued, and the pouring continued, until the student
was getting a lapful of tea, and said, �My cup is full!� The master
smiled and said, �Yes, it is. And until you empty yourself of what
you think you know, you won�t be able to learn.�
Weird Al says it a different way in �Everything You Know is Wrong,�
and Christians say �You must surrender yourself.� Before that Jesus
said, �Unless you become as a little child��
What it means in homeschooling terms is that as long as you think you
can control and add to what you already know, it will be hard to come
to unschooling. The more quickly you empty your cup and open yourself
to new ideas uncritically, the sooner you will see natural learning
blossom.
So much for philosophy and buildup. How can this be done? Can it work
for former teachers? What about engineers who are sure their children
need lots of math in an organized fashion? What about moms who love
schedules and organization?
Deschooling is needed much more by parents than by
children.********************
The rest is here:
http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I have another friend who teaches math and reads aloud to her kids
daily
having them narrate orally to here to assess their understanding,
anything else they learn or study is upon their own initiative. She
provides a range of resourses and materials which are available should
the children desire to make use of them but which are not compulsary.
She considers herself an unschooler. I think this approach could work
for me but I wont know for sure until I learn a little more.-=-
That's not the sort of unschooling this list is about.
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/marginal.html
-=-I know another lady who plans activities to do with their kids on a
daily basis based on their childs interests and actively extends their
understanding whilst they are participating in these activities. She
also encourages them to come up with their own activities and then she
looks for teachable moments in which she can extend their learning she
too considers herself and unschooler. This too could work for me once I
am a little more knowledgable and can have my concerns and questions
answerred to my satisfaction.-=-
No one on this list is obligated to answer your questions to your
satisfaction. There are some people who will counsel you by phone
for $35 or $40 an hour, if you want to be advised on your own terms.
If you want to pay for advice, maybe google and find them, but I can
tell you right now that there's no one offering direct counselling
who knows more than the combined knowledge of this list.
If you want free information, it would probably be courteous not to
tell us how you want your advice to be set out on the plate.
-=-So I am keen to hear about others personal experiences rather than
just reading general philosophies online.-=-
I don't think you've looked online much, if you think there aren't
people's personal experiences.
http://sandradodd.com/typical
There are a few dozen typical days.
http://sandradodd.com/life
There are MANY accounts of how families have come to see parenting
aspects of fulltime natural learning.
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com
On the lefthand column are blogs of unschoolers. You can see stories
current to the hour or the day, with photos.
You will never become sufficiently knowledgeable about unschooling if
you're unwilling to read how it works and why.
If you see anything in those readings above that catches your
interest, stick around. If you're not ready to consider these
things, this list probably won't help you at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
daily
having them narrate orally to here to assess their understanding,
anything else they learn or study is upon their own initiative. She
provides a range of resourses and materials which are available should
the children desire to make use of them but which are not compulsary.
She considers herself an unschooler. I think this approach could work
for me but I wont know for sure until I learn a little more.-=-
That's not the sort of unschooling this list is about.
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/marginal.html
-=-I know another lady who plans activities to do with their kids on a
daily basis based on their childs interests and actively extends their
understanding whilst they are participating in these activities. She
also encourages them to come up with their own activities and then she
looks for teachable moments in which she can extend their learning she
too considers herself and unschooler. This too could work for me once I
am a little more knowledgable and can have my concerns and questions
answerred to my satisfaction.-=-
No one on this list is obligated to answer your questions to your
satisfaction. There are some people who will counsel you by phone
for $35 or $40 an hour, if you want to be advised on your own terms.
If you want to pay for advice, maybe google and find them, but I can
tell you right now that there's no one offering direct counselling
who knows more than the combined knowledge of this list.
If you want free information, it would probably be courteous not to
tell us how you want your advice to be set out on the plate.
-=-So I am keen to hear about others personal experiences rather than
just reading general philosophies online.-=-
I don't think you've looked online much, if you think there aren't
people's personal experiences.
http://sandradodd.com/typical
There are a few dozen typical days.
http://sandradodd.com/life
There are MANY accounts of how families have come to see parenting
aspects of fulltime natural learning.
http://thinkingsticks.blogspot.com
On the lefthand column are blogs of unschoolers. You can see stories
current to the hour or the day, with photos.
You will never become sufficiently knowledgeable about unschooling if
you're unwilling to read how it works and why.
If you see anything in those readings above that catches your
interest, stick around. If you're not ready to consider these
things, this list probably won't help you at all.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nina
--- In [email protected], Pamela Sorooshian
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Firstly thanks for this reply Pamela it is the type of reply I was
ho;ping for and is one that really helps me to gain understanding and to
learn without making me feel 2nd rate or ignorant LOL.
then I might be.
Or are you thinking about their ability to express themselves?
Yes I think the ability to express themselves in writing is my biggest
concern at the moment
For what purposes? Is it for making a shopping list... No simple things
like lists are not a problem.
or writing a letter to Grandma
They will only do this if I make them and even then my boys wouldn't
manage more than a sentence or two and certainly wouldn't extend
themselves to make it interesting for her to read.
or write a book report?
If they initiated this for themselves I think I would fall over in shock
LOL
Are you talking about young kids, but worried about their ability to
write an
certain skills that they will need to learn. Naturally I realize these
skills will be learned gradually over the years and not in one foul
swoop. But If they don't initiate any writing on which to build upon
over time on their own wouldn't I then need to find ways to get them
writing myself?
Really stop right now, before you continue reading this response, and
think for yourself about writing - maybe stop and write us a post in
which you describe the kinds of writing you think
expressing myself. In a practical sense it has benefited me 1000 times
over during my life and I believe it is an important skill to develop
and practice beyond the basics of letter and list writing. If they don't
give it a go they may never discover the joy of it and if the do give it
a shot they may well find a whole new world open up to them. If later
down the track they decide to go to university i would like to think I
have kept as many doors open to them as possible and I believe being a
competant writer is one of those doors.
seems un-natural for a parent not to worry about the future on their
childrens behalf. This is not a criticizm just where I am at right now.
So I suggest that the question you ought to be asking is,
"For those whose kids don't write of their own accord, why are you NOT
worried that your non-writing children are not, in fact, writing?"
Yes thats what I meant lol
Also,
"Do you find ways to get them to write?"
Yes that too LOL
Beyong the basic 4 functions and even prior to that mastering them.
why?
Because math was a subject at school I struggled with and never really
grasped as I had a poor foundation. This prevented me following a career
path I wanted later in life. It is also very important to my dh that the
children have a good math education beyond everything else.
Blessings
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<pamsoroosh@...> wrote:
Firstly thanks for this reply Pamela it is the type of reply I was
ho;ping for and is one that really helps me to gain understanding and to
learn without making me feel 2nd rate or ignorant LOL.
> What type of writing are you concerned with? Are you worried about theNot really although if my kids were not already proficient at penmanship
> mechanics of penmanship?
then I might be.
Or are you thinking about their ability to express themselves?
Yes I think the ability to express themselves in writing is my biggest
concern at the moment
For what purposes? Is it for making a shopping list... No simple things
like lists are not a problem.
or writing a letter to Grandma
They will only do this if I make them and even then my boys wouldn't
manage more than a sentence or two and certainly wouldn't extend
themselves to make it interesting for her to read.
or write a book report?
If they initiated this for themselves I think I would fall over in shock
LOL
Are you talking about young kids, but worried about their ability to
write an
> essay for college?This type of writing will be an issue later but before then there are
certain skills that they will need to learn. Naturally I realize these
skills will be learned gradually over the years and not in one foul
swoop. But If they don't initiate any writing on which to build upon
over time on their own wouldn't I then need to find ways to get them
writing myself?
Really stop right now, before you continue reading this response, and
think for yourself about writing - maybe stop and write us a post in
which you describe the kinds of writing you think
> your children ought to be doing and how they'd benefit and why itI like to write and feel it is the way in which I am most comfortable
> seems important to you.
expressing myself. In a practical sense it has benefited me 1000 times
over during my life and I believe it is an important skill to develop
and practice beyond the basics of letter and list writing. If they don't
give it a go they may never discover the joy of it and if the do give it
a shot they may well find a whole new world open up to them. If later
down the track they decide to go to university i would like to think I
have kept as many doors open to them as possible and I believe being a
competant writer is one of those doors.
>Yes that is one aspect of unschooling I just don't get at the moment. It
>
> We can't really answer the question as you asked it, because you
> assumed the existence of fear. Experienced unschoolers simply don't
> have that fear anymore. But, you might really want to know why we
> don't have that fear, right?
seems un-natural for a parent not to worry about the future on their
childrens behalf. This is not a criticizm just where I am at right now.
So I suggest that the question you ought to be asking is,
"For those whose kids don't write of their own accord, why are you NOT
worried that your non-writing children are not, in fact, writing?"
Yes thats what I meant lol
Also,
"Do you find ways to get them to write?"
Yes that too LOL
>I think that's what I've done above :p
> Why don't you go ahead with my suggestion above and then come back and
> ask the other questions.
>Exactly what math learning are you worrying about?
Beyong the basic 4 functions and even prior to that mastering them.
why?
Because math was a subject at school I struggled with and never really
grasped as I had a poor foundation. This prevented me following a career
path I wanted later in life. It is also very important to my dh that the
children have a good math education beyond everything else.
>Thanks Pam this is great.
> We can talk in generalities, but it would help you most if we could be
> very specific.
Blessings
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nina
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
I am here to learn but at the same time based on my observations of the
family dynamics in the household I mentioned I would not choose to
follow the same path as it goes against my personality and my Christian
beliefs.
> -=-I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler
and does no formal teaching at all .-=- 9 In saying this, I mean it
seems that her children are completely free to do whatever they like and
she does her own thing while they for the most part entertain
themselves. She makes no effort to introduce new concepts or skills to
them beyond what they initiate themselves. Is this true of most
unschoolers?
>
> I do no formal teaching at all. My children have never been to
school. They are 22, 19 and 16.
So does that mean your children are free from day one to do whatever
they like whenever they want to do it without your permission or
direction or at the very least guidance?
May they play, read or watch things that may be contrary to your beliefs
and moral values but which you let them judge for themselves from a very
young age? (preschool) I am not judging here just trying to get a clear
and realistic picture.
Blessings
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-or write a book report?
If they initiated this for themselves I think I would fall over in shock
LOL-=-
Most adults who went to school don't have the faintest idea what a
book report would actually be in the real world. School book reports
are not real writing. The real writing is at Amazon.com, where
people review books. It's in magazines and newspapers, where books
are reviewed too, but anyone can write a review at Amazon.
That is real writing.
If any adult initiated a school-style book report on her own, I would
think she was an idiot. And the thing about unschooling is that it
has to do with discovering what is real in the world and what is
school. Real people read books if they want to, for information or
for pleasure. Schoolkids read books because there are rewards and
threats.
I've treated my children like real people since they were born. You
might fall over in shock if you knew how wonderfully that is turning
out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If they initiated this for themselves I think I would fall over in shock
LOL-=-
Most adults who went to school don't have the faintest idea what a
book report would actually be in the real world. School book reports
are not real writing. The real writing is at Amazon.com, where
people review books. It's in magazines and newspapers, where books
are reviewed too, but anyone can write a review at Amazon.
That is real writing.
If any adult initiated a school-style book report on her own, I would
think she was an idiot. And the thing about unschooling is that it
has to do with discovering what is real in the world and what is
school. Real people read books if they want to, for information or
for pleasure. Schoolkids read books because there are rewards and
threats.
I've treated my children like real people since they were born. You
might fall over in shock if you knew how wonderfully that is turning
out.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nina
Oh dear it seems I have ruffled some feathers and upset you. That was
not my intention and I wasn't trying to be discourteous. I was
obviously under the impression that this is a support group for those
already unschooling and those who are interested in it.
I apologize for assuming that part of this was chatting a bouncing
ideas and thoughts off each other and sharing experiences, answering
questions and learning and growing together.
If you are not happy for me to ask questions and bounce ideas off you
all in order to gain greater understanding then perhaps you could
direct me to a yahoo group that exists for this purpose.
Doing further research online takes me away from my kids too long so I
had hoped a group like this would mean I could cut to the chase and
avoid hours of online reading and researching.
Once again I apologize for jumping to assumptions.
regards
Nina
not my intention and I wasn't trying to be discourteous. I was
obviously under the impression that this is a support group for those
already unschooling and those who are interested in it.
I apologize for assuming that part of this was chatting a bouncing
ideas and thoughts off each other and sharing experiences, answering
questions and learning and growing together.
If you are not happy for me to ask questions and bounce ideas off you
all in order to gain greater understanding then perhaps you could
direct me to a yahoo group that exists for this purpose.
Doing further research online takes me away from my kids too long so I
had hoped a group like this would mean I could cut to the chase and
avoid hours of online reading and researching.
Once again I apologize for jumping to assumptions.
regards
Nina
Nina
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
but anyone can write a review at Amazon.
>
> That is real writing.
So would you ever suggest this to one of your children as an idea of
something they may like to consider doing or would you not bother unless
they asked for an idea because they felt like writing?
>
Real people read books if they want to, for information or for
pleasure.
Well Mine read because they want to and occasionally because I encourage
them to have some quiet time reading if I real they need it. I provide a
huge range of books from the Library and read aloud to them when asked
or occasionally whenever I find a good book that I think they'll enjoy.
> I've treated my children like real people since they were born. You
might fall over in shock if you knew how wonderfully that is turning
out.
I consider myself to treat my kids as real people but I probably go
about it a different way that you do at the moment. Just like me I see
that they have human weaknesses and just like me I see that they can
learn from the wisdom and guidance of others. Just like me they may
sometimes resist this wisdom and guidance at first but when they come
out the other end they are usually glad they gave it a chance.
blessings
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=---- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
wrote:
I am here to learn but at the same time based on my observations of the
family dynamics in the household I mentioned I would not choose to
follow the same path as it goes against my personality and my Christian
beliefs.-=-
I didn't write that.
PLEASE edit your posts before you send them.
-=-So does that mean your children are free from day one to do
whatever they like whenever they want to do it without your
permission or direction or at the very least guidance?-=-
If you didn't read the group's page at yahoogroups, and you didn't
come here because you knew it was my group, I'm really curious how
you found the group and decided to join it.
-=-May they play, read or watch things that may be contrary to your
beliefs and moral values but which you let them judge for themselves
from a very young age? (preschool) I am not judging here just trying
to get a clear and realistic picture.-=-
You probably would be happier buying a Christian curriculum. You
want to have an easy answer without any discussion or explanation.
Your questions have all been asked from a position of inflexible
belief and assumptions galore, and (I hope) without your meaning to,
they are worded in such a way that you insult the people from whom
you hope to get these free, easy answers.
Here is support:
http://sandradodd.com/support
If you decide you want information and discussion, go here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
or to Joyce Fetteroll's page
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
If you don't have time to learn about unschooling you certainly don't
have time to actually unschool your children. Using a curriculum
won't take all day and all night. You can have days off.
Unschooling is a commitment to living in such a way that learning
happens all the time, every day, all year.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
wrote:
I am here to learn but at the same time based on my observations of the
family dynamics in the household I mentioned I would not choose to
follow the same path as it goes against my personality and my Christian
beliefs.-=-
I didn't write that.
PLEASE edit your posts before you send them.
-=-So does that mean your children are free from day one to do
whatever they like whenever they want to do it without your
permission or direction or at the very least guidance?-=-
If you didn't read the group's page at yahoogroups, and you didn't
come here because you knew it was my group, I'm really curious how
you found the group and decided to join it.
-=-May they play, read or watch things that may be contrary to your
beliefs and moral values but which you let them judge for themselves
from a very young age? (preschool) I am not judging here just trying
to get a clear and realistic picture.-=-
You probably would be happier buying a Christian curriculum. You
want to have an easy answer without any discussion or explanation.
Your questions have all been asked from a position of inflexible
belief and assumptions galore, and (I hope) without your meaning to,
they are worded in such a way that you insult the people from whom
you hope to get these free, easy answers.
Here is support:
http://sandradodd.com/support
If you decide you want information and discussion, go here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
or to Joyce Fetteroll's page
http://joyfullyrejoycing.com/
If you don't have time to learn about unschooling you certainly don't
have time to actually unschool your children. Using a curriculum
won't take all day and all night. You can have days off.
Unschooling is a commitment to living in such a way that learning
happens all the time, every day, all year.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-> That is real writing.
So would you ever suggest this to one of your children as an idea of
something they may like to consider doing or would you not bother unless
they asked for an idea because they felt like writing?
writing first?
http://sandradodd.com/writing
Perhaps read back through this list's archives for four or five
days. I'm going to go ahead and keep letting your posts through,
but it might be better for you to stop writing for a while and read
and think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So would you ever suggest this to one of your children as an idea of
something they may like to consider doing or would you not bother unless
they asked for an idea because they felt like writing?
>-=-Did you come and ask this question without going to the link about
writing first?
http://sandradodd.com/writing
Perhaps read back through this list's archives for four or five
days. I'm going to go ahead and keep letting your posts through,
but it might be better for you to stop writing for a while and read
and think.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-So would you ever suggest this to one of your children as an idea of
something they may like to consider doing or would you not bother unless
they asked for an idea because they felt like writing?-=--=-
Neither of those describes the way my children have come to write.
-=-So does that mean your children are free from day one to do whatever
they like whenever they want to do it without your permission or
direction or at the very least guidance?-=-
The tone sounds insulting, but I will answer it as though you meant
no insult.
From the time my children were born I held them and nursed them,
talked to them and sang to them, slept with them and played with
them. They have never been in daycare (Marty and Kirby, once, stayed
at a mother's-day-out at a church near us for two hours while I went
Christmas shopping, and Marty mentioned every time we passed that
building for years--never in a good way). They have never been to
school.
If we have something scheduled, we go there. If people are coming
over, we stay home. We check on each others's needs for help, food,
clean clothes, rides, need to talk... this way of being has evolved
over the 22 years I've been a mom. It evolved into unschooling
pretty smoothly, and now is evolving out into their adult lives and
relationship with me and their dad seamlessly. There was not
difference between their pre-school lives and their unschooling
years, and no difference between their pre-18-year-old and 18, 19,
21, 22 year old selves, except at some point they can't be on our
insurance anymore. Kirby, the oldest, has his own job and medical,
dental, automotive insurance now. He lives in another state, because
a job transferred him there. Before that he was living at home.
They do whatever they like whenever they want to do it, but "without
my permission" isn't an issue. They let me know, and if there are
any real objections, it wouldn't have to be me to state them--it
could be their dad or a sibling or a friend. They make decisions
about what to do with all the realities of their lives in mind.
They have always had direction and a great deal of guidance.
It's likely that my idea of direction isn't the same as yours. My
children live by principles and that makes direction a thing they
have in them, not something other people do to them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
something they may like to consider doing or would you not bother unless
they asked for an idea because they felt like writing?-=--=-
Neither of those describes the way my children have come to write.
-=-So does that mean your children are free from day one to do whatever
they like whenever they want to do it without your permission or
direction or at the very least guidance?-=-
The tone sounds insulting, but I will answer it as though you meant
no insult.
From the time my children were born I held them and nursed them,
talked to them and sang to them, slept with them and played with
them. They have never been in daycare (Marty and Kirby, once, stayed
at a mother's-day-out at a church near us for two hours while I went
Christmas shopping, and Marty mentioned every time we passed that
building for years--never in a good way). They have never been to
school.
If we have something scheduled, we go there. If people are coming
over, we stay home. We check on each others's needs for help, food,
clean clothes, rides, need to talk... this way of being has evolved
over the 22 years I've been a mom. It evolved into unschooling
pretty smoothly, and now is evolving out into their adult lives and
relationship with me and their dad seamlessly. There was not
difference between their pre-school lives and their unschooling
years, and no difference between their pre-18-year-old and 18, 19,
21, 22 year old selves, except at some point they can't be on our
insurance anymore. Kirby, the oldest, has his own job and medical,
dental, automotive insurance now. He lives in another state, because
a job transferred him there. Before that he was living at home.
They do whatever they like whenever they want to do it, but "without
my permission" isn't an issue. They let me know, and if there are
any real objections, it wouldn't have to be me to state them--it
could be their dad or a sibling or a friend. They make decisions
about what to do with all the realities of their lives in mind.
They have always had direction and a great deal of guidance.
It's likely that my idea of direction isn't the same as yours. My
children live by principles and that makes direction a thing they
have in them, not something other people do to them.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-May they play, read or watch things that may be contrary to your
beliefs
and moral values but which you let them judge for themselves from a very
young age? (preschool) I am not judging here just trying to get a clear
and realistic picture.-=-
Do you have preschool children? I'd like to know this before I go
much further. How old are your children?
Please give an example of something your preschool child could play
that is contrary to your beliefs and moral values.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
beliefs
and moral values but which you let them judge for themselves from a very
young age? (preschool) I am not judging here just trying to get a clear
and realistic picture.-=-
Do you have preschool children? I'd like to know this before I go
much further. How old are your children?
Please give an example of something your preschool child could play
that is contrary to your beliefs and moral values.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nina
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
preschool teacher before having my own children.
feel promote values contrary to our families Christian beliefs. This
includes things such as books or games featuring witchcraft/wizardry,
horror, violence, or what I consider to be teen or adult concepts.
Our approach to all areas of life is based upon our christian beliefs.
But that is us and I know not everyone shares our beliefs or approach to
life.
My reason for asking this was that It would appear to me that if
children had total freedom of choice then religeous beliefs such as ours
couldn't come into it. Am I correct?
Have I answered your questions satisfactorily?
Learning about this new area is proving to be more difficult than I had
anticipated.
Blessings
Nina
>I have 4 children ds11, ds9, dd7 and an 8 month old baby. I was a
> Do you have preschool children? I'd like to know this before I go
> much further. How old are your children?
preschool teacher before having my own children.
>My children are not allowed to play computer or electronic games that we
> Please give an example of something your preschool child could play
> that is contrary to your beliefs and moral values.
feel promote values contrary to our families Christian beliefs. This
includes things such as books or games featuring witchcraft/wizardry,
horror, violence, or what I consider to be teen or adult concepts.
Our approach to all areas of life is based upon our christian beliefs.
But that is us and I know not everyone shares our beliefs or approach to
life.
My reason for asking this was that It would appear to me that if
children had total freedom of choice then religeous beliefs such as ours
couldn't come into it. Am I correct?
Have I answered your questions satisfactorily?
Learning about this new area is proving to be more difficult than I had
anticipated.
Blessings
Nina
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nina
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote
wrong place to ask my questions and hopefully learn from the
experiences and wisdom of others.
I apologize to any and all whom I have upset and offended with my
apparently insulting questions. They were asked with the best of
intentions and were from a presumption that the statement below from the
groups page seemed to indicate that this was the purpose of this group.
How and why does unschooling work? What kind of parents and parenting
does it take? What will help, and what will hinder?
This is a list for the examination of the philosophy of unschooling and
attentive parenting and a place for sharing examined lives based on the
principles underlying unschooling.
Always Learning will focus on how people learn no matter where in the
world they are, rather than on what's legal in any particular country or
jurisdiction.
Once again I do apologize especially to Sandra who I fear I have
insulted without intending to.
Sandra I will leave your group today seeing as my questions are
obviously not welcome.
Regards
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Obviously I misunderstood the purpose of this group and have come to the
> If you didn't read the group's page at yahoogroups, and you didn't
> come here because you knew it was my group, I'm really curious how
> you found the group and decided to join it.
wrong place to ask my questions and hopefully learn from the
experiences and wisdom of others.
I apologize to any and all whom I have upset and offended with my
apparently insulting questions. They were asked with the best of
intentions and were from a presumption that the statement below from the
groups page seemed to indicate that this was the purpose of this group.
How and why does unschooling work? What kind of parents and parenting
does it take? What will help, and what will hinder?
This is a list for the examination of the philosophy of unschooling and
attentive parenting and a place for sharing examined lives based on the
principles underlying unschooling.
Always Learning will focus on how people learn no matter where in the
world they are, rather than on what's legal in any particular country or
jurisdiction.
Once again I do apologize especially to Sandra who I fear I have
insulted without intending to.
Sandra I will leave your group today seeing as my questions are
obviously not welcome.
Regards
Nina
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/29/2008 3:52:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kiorakiwi@... writes:
<<<I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler and
does no formal teaching at all Not only that but she believes that
children will learn all life skills, morals, behaviour and values
without the need for discipline or teaching of any sort from her. I know
that this approach would not work for me.>>>
Not so much the academic part, but I thought this as well when I first
started reading on unschooling boards. Some sort of magnet kept me reading,
though. I'd read and say things to myself like, "That would never work *here*." or
"That's just irresponsible!" or just sit shaking my head in the negative, no
words to describe the small "horror" I felt. The thing is, the more I read,
the more I was drawn to the results. I heard more and more people talking
about openness, love, joy and a real *connection* with not only their kids and
spouses, but other people as well. I *wanted* that. I wanted it so much, that
I began to quit dismissing the paths folks took because I wanted to get to
the place they were *so* badly. The moment I allowed myself to listen, my true
learning and my adventurous, joyful journey began. Please don't be too quick
to say those words "It won't work for me or my family"-you never know what
you might discover just by listening and considering the possibilities.
Peace,
De
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kiorakiwi@... writes:
<<<I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler and
does no formal teaching at all Not only that but she believes that
children will learn all life skills, morals, behaviour and values
without the need for discipline or teaching of any sort from her. I know
that this approach would not work for me.>>>
Not so much the academic part, but I thought this as well when I first
started reading on unschooling boards. Some sort of magnet kept me reading,
though. I'd read and say things to myself like, "That would never work *here*." or
"That's just irresponsible!" or just sit shaking my head in the negative, no
words to describe the small "horror" I felt. The thing is, the more I read,
the more I was drawn to the results. I heard more and more people talking
about openness, love, joy and a real *connection* with not only their kids and
spouses, but other people as well. I *wanted* that. I wanted it so much, that
I began to quit dismissing the paths folks took because I wanted to get to
the place they were *so* badly. The moment I allowed myself to listen, my true
learning and my adventurous, joyful journey began. Please don't be too quick
to say those words "It won't work for me or my family"-you never know what
you might discover just by listening and considering the possibilities.
Peace,
De
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
DJ250
I'm a former "only an unschooler, never radical", myself. I agree, read, talk with people, etc. My daughters and I were having a tough time with the traditional parenting approach and I thought to myself, "what the he%%, let's try this radical stuff". It's been wonderful! My youngest, who used to have fits of rage, has dramatically reduced them! It's much more peaceful around here and dh is trying his best to get on board. :)
~Melissa :)
~Melissa :)
----- Original Message -----
From: Sanguinegirl83@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Still learning bare with me...
In a message dated 9/29/2008 3:52:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kiorakiwi@... writes:
<<<I have a friend who considers herself to be a radical unschooler and
does no formal teaching at all Not only that but she believes that
children will learn all life skills, morals, behaviour and values
without the need for discipline or teaching of any sort from her. I know
that this approach would not work for me.>>>
Not so much the academic part, but I thought this as well when I first
started reading on unschooling boards. Some sort of magnet kept me reading,
though. I'd read and say things to myself like, "That would never work *here*." or
"That's just irresponsible!" or just sit shaking my head in the negative, no
words to describe the small "horror" I felt. The thing is, the more I read,
the more I was drawn to the results. I heard more and more people talking
about openness, love, joy and a real *connection* with not only their kids and
spouses, but other people as well. I *wanted* that. I wanted it so much, that
I began to quit dismissing the paths folks took because I wanted to get to
the place they were *so* badly. The moment I allowed myself to listen, my true
learning and my adventurous, joyful journey began. Please don't be too quick
to say those words "It won't work for me or my family"-you never know what
you might discover just by listening and considering the possibilities.
Peace,
De
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1697 - Release Date: 9/29/2008 7:40 AM
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 9/29/2008 4:43:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kiorakiwi@... writes:
<<<I like to write and feel it is the way in which I am most comfortable
expressing myself. In a practical sense it has benefited me 1000 times
over during my life and I believe it is an important skill to develop
and practice beyond the basics of letter and list writing. If they don't
give it a go they may never discover the joy of it and if the do give it
a shot they may well find a whole new world open up to them. >>>
I love to write, myself. I have 2 blogs with seemingly-endless entries. I
kept a diary and journals from when I was a teen until I started blogging. I
often think I have an affinity with the written word-it goes from my brain to my
fingers without effort. I didn't gain this from someone making me write. My
joy of writing would have been snuffed out if it was required of me-it was
something I picked up and expanded and grew with the joy and time I put into it.
Sometimes, Wyl (9) wants to communicate with someone. At this point, working
on it on his own (either typing or handwriting) is slow and difficult. If he
does want to do something small, he wants help with spelling-I do so,
gladly. (Incidentally, Storm [3 1/2] has picked this up and will often ask how to
spell entire sentences while he is doodling, drawing and "writing") If he
wants to write a letter to someone, I will offer for him to dictate to me while I
write for him. I type very fast, so I can keep up with his though process and
it goes more quickly and thus smoother. If I made him do it himself, I'm
certain he would lose almost all interest in communicating by
written/typewritten word. Very occasionally, he'll come to me and ask if I can write something
for him (actually, today he asked me to help him finish writing a recipe he
had started and it was getting long and tiring). The more I support his
interest in communication in ways that I can, in ways that make it easy and
interesting, the more he will continue with it. If I make it hard and boring, why
would he want to continue?
Peace,
De
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kiorakiwi@... writes:
<<<I like to write and feel it is the way in which I am most comfortable
expressing myself. In a practical sense it has benefited me 1000 times
over during my life and I believe it is an important skill to develop
and practice beyond the basics of letter and list writing. If they don't
give it a go they may never discover the joy of it and if the do give it
a shot they may well find a whole new world open up to them. >>>
I love to write, myself. I have 2 blogs with seemingly-endless entries. I
kept a diary and journals from when I was a teen until I started blogging. I
often think I have an affinity with the written word-it goes from my brain to my
fingers without effort. I didn't gain this from someone making me write. My
joy of writing would have been snuffed out if it was required of me-it was
something I picked up and expanded and grew with the joy and time I put into it.
Sometimes, Wyl (9) wants to communicate with someone. At this point, working
on it on his own (either typing or handwriting) is slow and difficult. If he
does want to do something small, he wants help with spelling-I do so,
gladly. (Incidentally, Storm [3 1/2] has picked this up and will often ask how to
spell entire sentences while he is doodling, drawing and "writing") If he
wants to write a letter to someone, I will offer for him to dictate to me while I
write for him. I type very fast, so I can keep up with his though process and
it goes more quickly and thus smoother. If I made him do it himself, I'm
certain he would lose almost all interest in communicating by
written/typewritten word. Very occasionally, he'll come to me and ask if I can write something
for him (actually, today he asked me to help him finish writing a recipe he
had started and it was getting long and tiring). The more I support his
interest in communication in ways that I can, in ways that make it easy and
interesting, the more he will continue with it. If I make it hard and boring, why
would he want to continue?
Peace,
De
**************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Learning about this new area is proving to be more difficult than
I had
anticipated.-=-
It's because you don't really want to read the philosophy (as you said).
You want our lives to match your expectations. Sorry.
Here's a blog by an unschooler with a very Christian and literary focus:
http://melissawiley.com/blog/
There's a book:
http://www.fun-books.com/books/0223.htm
Website with Bible verses:
http://showcase.netins.net/web/nurture/ChristianUnschool01.html
http://showcase.netins.net/web/nurture/ChristianUnschool02.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I had
anticipated.-=-
It's because you don't really want to read the philosophy (as you said).
You want our lives to match your expectations. Sorry.
Here's a blog by an unschooler with a very Christian and literary focus:
http://melissawiley.com/blog/
There's a book:
http://www.fun-books.com/books/0223.htm
Website with Bible verses:
http://showcase.netins.net/web/nurture/ChristianUnschool01.html
http://showcase.netins.net/web/nurture/ChristianUnschool02.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, Nina wrote:
Nancy
> My reason for asking this was that It would appear to me that ifMy 21 y.o. unschooled daughter just said, "Yes."
> children had total freedom of choice then religeous beliefs such as
> ours
> couldn't come into it. Am I correct?
Nancy
Pamela Sorooshian
On Sep 29, 2008, at 3:00 PM, Nina wrote:
To unschool requires a paradigm shift for most people. For some, that
paradigm shift feels wonderful - euphoric - and sometimes people seem
to be able to slip into it very quickly. But, for most people, there
is a significant amount of resistance and wrenching and thrashing
about while hanging onto old underlying assumptions about children and
growth and development and learning.
I do not believe it is possible to embrace unschooling principles
unless you believe that human beings are born to learn. that learning
is as natural as breathing, that learning happens ALL the time, that
attempts to force learning have long-run detrimental effects on human
development, and that the ideal role of a parent is to support
learning through creating an experience-rich environment which brings
the world to their children and their children to the world in ways
that are very specifically tailored to each individual child's
interests, life circumstances, personality, competencies, and
aptitudes. Unschooling parents do not try to make a child learn - but
they do make it possible for the children to do what comes naturally -
learn.
It takes most people significant personal work to come to understand
unschooling.
It isn't appealing to everyone, that's for sure.
It takes an openness to being unconventional and a certain amount of
courage (or, sometimes, desperation) to be willing to even accept the
possibility that parents do not have to remain "in control" of their
children, that we can transcend the usual control-based parent/child
relationship and move toward one that more closely resembles an
intricate dance in which it can be difficult to tell which partner is
doing the "leading" because they are so finally attuned to each other.
Nina. Don't post anymore here for a while. You'll be better off to get
more of a taste of unschooling, first. Read at <SandraDodd.com> where
you will find the writing of many people on many topics. Have a blast
reading there - let yourself go from one thing to another, following
links to whatever catches your fancy.
-Pam
> Learning about this new area is proving to be more difficult than IUnschooling is a philosophy of learning, not a homeschooling method.
> had
> anticipate
To unschool requires a paradigm shift for most people. For some, that
paradigm shift feels wonderful - euphoric - and sometimes people seem
to be able to slip into it very quickly. But, for most people, there
is a significant amount of resistance and wrenching and thrashing
about while hanging onto old underlying assumptions about children and
growth and development and learning.
I do not believe it is possible to embrace unschooling principles
unless you believe that human beings are born to learn. that learning
is as natural as breathing, that learning happens ALL the time, that
attempts to force learning have long-run detrimental effects on human
development, and that the ideal role of a parent is to support
learning through creating an experience-rich environment which brings
the world to their children and their children to the world in ways
that are very specifically tailored to each individual child's
interests, life circumstances, personality, competencies, and
aptitudes. Unschooling parents do not try to make a child learn - but
they do make it possible for the children to do what comes naturally -
learn.
It takes most people significant personal work to come to understand
unschooling.
It isn't appealing to everyone, that's for sure.
It takes an openness to being unconventional and a certain amount of
courage (or, sometimes, desperation) to be willing to even accept the
possibility that parents do not have to remain "in control" of their
children, that we can transcend the usual control-based parent/child
relationship and move toward one that more closely resembles an
intricate dance in which it can be difficult to tell which partner is
doing the "leading" because they are so finally attuned to each other.
Nina. Don't post anymore here for a while. You'll be better off to get
more of a taste of unschooling, first. Read at <SandraDodd.com> where
you will find the writing of many people on many topics. Have a blast
reading there - let yourself go from one thing to another, following
links to whatever catches your fancy.
-Pam
Sandra Dodd
This was sent on the side. I should say that I had already
corresponded on the side with the poster, making other
recommendations. I wasn't crazy about being insulted here, and I'm
less crazy about being insulted in private.
====================================================================
Well thanks anyway as you are aware I have now left the group.
I was made to feel very unwelcome and misunderstood soley by you. I
sincerely hope that is not the way you welcome guests to your home.
Some members were very kind and gracious in the way they responded to
my posts and I really did appreciate their input. Others like
yourself made me feel like I was intruding on some silly high school
clique where if I didn't dress the same or speak the same or like the
same music as everyone else I would be made to feel like a reject.
For that I really have to thank you, because I had been going through
some difficult times with my kids figuring out how best to juggle a
new baby and 3 older kids, which is what lead me to investigate
unschooling again. You managed to remind me exactly why I choose to
homeschool and why ps will never be an option for us. You also
affirmed to me, that I am doing an ok job training and TEACHING my
children to treat others with grace, kindness and respect and to make
allowances for their uniqueness.
It is good to see that grace, acceptance and understanding is alive
and well in homeschooling circles too.
I wish you well on your journey through life.
Regards
.....(that poster)
===========================================================
The "thanks" was because I had added her e-mail address in blind
copy to the links to Christian unschooling sites. It's pretty common
for people to say "Okay, FINE, then I'm LEAVING" and not leave right
away (if ever). I don't have my yahoogroups notifications set to
tell me when people join or leave the list.
-=-I was made to feel very unwelcome and misunderstood soley by you.
I sincerely hope that is not the way you welcome guests to your home.-=-
Twice I've had guests in my home be as rude and tacky as those e-
mails were. Both times, the tacky human was male, and was there with
someone else (so not directly a guest). When I have guests, I make
them beds, put kleenex and water and a light near the bed, and make
them food. When someone comes to a discussion list and doesn't want
to discuss and states she's not going to read the links but wants to
be spoonfed on the list to her satisfaction, I don't feel she's a
guest at all.
-=-You also affirmed to me, that I am doing an ok job training and
TEACHING my children to treat others with grace, kindness and respect
and to make allowances for their uniqueness. -=-
EEEK! Bear with me while I wonder how she's going to teach grace and
respect.... Nah. Never mind. My kids are happy and healthy and fine.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
corresponded on the side with the poster, making other
recommendations. I wasn't crazy about being insulted here, and I'm
less crazy about being insulted in private.
====================================================================
Well thanks anyway as you are aware I have now left the group.
I was made to feel very unwelcome and misunderstood soley by you. I
sincerely hope that is not the way you welcome guests to your home.
Some members were very kind and gracious in the way they responded to
my posts and I really did appreciate their input. Others like
yourself made me feel like I was intruding on some silly high school
clique where if I didn't dress the same or speak the same or like the
same music as everyone else I would be made to feel like a reject.
For that I really have to thank you, because I had been going through
some difficult times with my kids figuring out how best to juggle a
new baby and 3 older kids, which is what lead me to investigate
unschooling again. You managed to remind me exactly why I choose to
homeschool and why ps will never be an option for us. You also
affirmed to me, that I am doing an ok job training and TEACHING my
children to treat others with grace, kindness and respect and to make
allowances for their uniqueness.
It is good to see that grace, acceptance and understanding is alive
and well in homeschooling circles too.
I wish you well on your journey through life.
Regards
.....(that poster)
===========================================================
The "thanks" was because I had added her e-mail address in blind
copy to the links to Christian unschooling sites. It's pretty common
for people to say "Okay, FINE, then I'm LEAVING" and not leave right
away (if ever). I don't have my yahoogroups notifications set to
tell me when people join or leave the list.
-=-I was made to feel very unwelcome and misunderstood soley by you.
I sincerely hope that is not the way you welcome guests to your home.-=-
Twice I've had guests in my home be as rude and tacky as those e-
mails were. Both times, the tacky human was male, and was there with
someone else (so not directly a guest). When I have guests, I make
them beds, put kleenex and water and a light near the bed, and make
them food. When someone comes to a discussion list and doesn't want
to discuss and states she's not going to read the links but wants to
be spoonfed on the list to her satisfaction, I don't feel she's a
guest at all.
-=-You also affirmed to me, that I am doing an ok job training and
TEACHING my children to treat others with grace, kindness and respect
and to make allowances for their uniqueness. -=-
EEEK! Bear with me while I wonder how she's going to teach grace and
respect.... Nah. Never mind. My kids are happy and healthy and fine.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn L. Coburn
<<<> I was made to feel very unwelcome and misunderstood soley by you. I
offensive ones, since I like being counted with Sandra.
BTW still more muddled thinking - notice how the offence was "soley" by
Sandra... but then also by "other" members? I LOVE that she doesn't have
time to spend reading on the computer, but apparently believes we have time
to rewrite it all just for her.
I'm still vaguely disappointed that the whole thing wasn't an invitation to
"bare" with her at a nice nudist beach....
Seriously though, she is having a hard time "juggling" all her kids
*because* she is trying to school them, and I think it sounds exhausting.
Fear is exhausting.
Constantly removing options is exhausting.
Oh well, perhaps she will sneak back and read some in her precious few
moments.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
> sincerely hope that is not the way you welcome guests to your home.Crikey, she only got about four or five people. I hope I was one of the
>
> Some members were very kind and gracious in the way they responded to
> my posts and I really did appreciate their input. Others like
> yourself made me feel like I was intruding on some silly high school >>>
offensive ones, since I like being counted with Sandra.
BTW still more muddled thinking - notice how the offence was "soley" by
Sandra... but then also by "other" members? I LOVE that she doesn't have
time to spend reading on the computer, but apparently believes we have time
to rewrite it all just for her.
I'm still vaguely disappointed that the whole thing wasn't an invitation to
"bare" with her at a nice nudist beach....
Seriously though, she is having a hard time "juggling" all her kids
*because* she is trying to school them, and I think it sounds exhausting.
Fear is exhausting.
Constantly removing options is exhausting.
Oh well, perhaps she will sneak back and read some in her precious few
moments.
Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Katy JENNINGS
<<<<Unschooling is a commitment to living in such a way that learning
happens all the time, every day, all year.>>>>
That is awesome, it should go on your quote generator, Sandra.
I have a friend who recently has been asking a lot of favors of me. I have
her kids a lot, and though her kids go to public school our parenting
philosophy is similar and our kids are good friends. I usually do things
for her happily, but it has been getting to be too much lately. She made a
comment recently that blew me away, something along the lines of *you are
not doing anything anyway.* What???
I have tried to gently give her the message that though I love unschooling
and don't think of it as work, it does take a lot of effort on my part.
Your quote sums it up perfectly.
Katy J.
katyjennings.blogspot.com
happens all the time, every day, all year.>>>>
That is awesome, it should go on your quote generator, Sandra.
I have a friend who recently has been asking a lot of favors of me. I have
her kids a lot, and though her kids go to public school our parenting
philosophy is similar and our kids are good friends. I usually do things
for her happily, but it has been getting to be too much lately. She made a
comment recently that blew me away, something along the lines of *you are
not doing anything anyway.* What???
I have tried to gently give her the message that though I love unschooling
and don't think of it as work, it does take a lot of effort on my part.
Your quote sums it up perfectly.
Katy J.
katyjennings.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
<<<<Unschooling is a commitment to living in such a way that learning
happens all the time, every day, all year.>>>>
-=-That is awesome, it should go on your quote generator, Sandra.-=-
Thanks, Katy. It's there.
I had a friend who did that with me, when my kids were young. I
would keep her kids all day sometimes, and she would give me $10 or
$15, which was not quite enough to get McDonalds meals for her kids
and mine, and her kids were only used to fast-food lunches. The
kids were having fun together so I didn't make a deal of it. It's
not easy, but I just thought of it as something I was doing for my
kids, and not for her, which made it more bearable.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
happens all the time, every day, all year.>>>>
-=-That is awesome, it should go on your quote generator, Sandra.-=-
Thanks, Katy. It's there.
I had a friend who did that with me, when my kids were young. I
would keep her kids all day sometimes, and she would give me $10 or
$15, which was not quite enough to get McDonalds meals for her kids
and mine, and her kids were only used to fast-food lunches. The
kids were having fun together so I didn't make a deal of it. It's
not easy, but I just thought of it as something I was doing for my
kids, and not for her, which made it more bearable.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Unschooling is mainly a concept that must be understood ==not as Christian
or non== as it's a philosophy that embraces the child's developmental
methods, the ways they learn the easiest, the most naturally. It is not
about *content* per se. It *is* about trusting children, who of all people
*can* be trusted... and that is biblical. The view of unschooling is not
how many Christians think of children because the Christian culture and
indeed many cultures look upon children with undue and extreme suspicion.
Unschooling points out the idea that we don't want to approach our
relationships with children in such a way that it guarantees a messed up
one. We can discourage children with our cynical view of the world and put
that view on them as though children are involved in dreaming it up. There
is a lot that we could be negative about ... but that's a choice we're
making, a view that we're adhering to. Whatsoever things are of good
report. That's a way of life in unschooling.. seeing the good, not focusing
on the bad, since a focus on the bad puts an odd flavor of value on the very
thing we don't want and gives it unwarranted power.
~Katherine
or non== as it's a philosophy that embraces the child's developmental
methods, the ways they learn the easiest, the most naturally. It is not
about *content* per se. It *is* about trusting children, who of all people
*can* be trusted... and that is biblical. The view of unschooling is not
how many Christians think of children because the Christian culture and
indeed many cultures look upon children with undue and extreme suspicion.
Unschooling points out the idea that we don't want to approach our
relationships with children in such a way that it guarantees a messed up
one. We can discourage children with our cynical view of the world and put
that view on them as though children are involved in dreaming it up. There
is a lot that we could be negative about ... but that's a choice we're
making, a view that we're adhering to. Whatsoever things are of good
report. That's a way of life in unschooling.. seeing the good, not focusing
on the bad, since a focus on the bad puts an odd flavor of value on the very
thing we don't want and gives it unwarranted power.
~Katherine
On 9/29/08, Nina <kiorakiwi@...> wrote:
>
>
> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Do you have preschool children? I'd like to know this before I go
> > much further. How old are your children?
>
> I have 4 children ds11, ds9, dd7 and an 8 month old baby. I was a
> preschool teacher before having my own children.
> >
> > Please give an example of something your preschool child could play
> > that is contrary to your beliefs and moral values.
>
> My children are not allowed to play computer or electronic games that we
> feel promote values contrary to our families Christian beliefs. This
> includes things such as books or games featuring witchcraft/wizardry,
> horror, violence, or what I consider to be teen or adult concepts.
>
> Our approach to all areas of life is based upon our christian beliefs.
> But that is us and I know not everyone shares our beliefs or approach to
> life.
>
> My reason for asking this was that It would appear to me that if
> children had total freedom of choice then religeous beliefs such as ours
> couldn't come into it. Am I correct?
>
> Have I answered your questions satisfactorily?
>
> Learning about this new area is proving to be more difficult than I had
> anticipated.
>
> Blessings
>
> Nina
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]