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<< Yup. And I think they are better for short-term goals. We used a reward
thingie when the kids were trying to stop sucking their fingers. They wanted
to use the chart AND they wanted to stop sucking, the latter being essential
because otherwise no system would work. >>

This is off the topic mostly.

When I was teaching ninth grade, not long after I had taken a ton of
psychology classes in the operant conditioning, Skinner days, one of the
coolest and most popular girls in the school was in my class (she had been
when she was in 7th grade too, which is part of why she went with this...).

She had an irritating habit which caused teachers and kids alike to bristle.
She would click her tongue against the back of her front teeth before she
said something.

In the full-body dialect of Northern New Mexico, and she being Hispanic, this
was a kind of insult. So she basically started each statement with "Oh, SI"
(only not that verbally), a kind of disdainful "you won't understand this,
but..." before each statement. She did it when she meant to, with feeling,
but it had stuck itself in her mouth and she didn't know how to get it out.
She would do it just to herself, too, when she was writing or thinking, and
those probably WERE judgmental--self criticism expressed.

Those who knew her and liked her (and there were lots) knew she didn't mean
it to be antagonistic, but those who didn't like her responded bristly.

So one day when one of the kids was razzing her to stop it, she nearly cried,
and I said "If you want us to help you stop, I have a way. We'll only do it
if you want to. We'll quit if it's bugging you."

Bless those other 28 or so kids, they were sweet and helpful. Every time she
(I don't remember her name right now, which is fine; I remember her face and
voice and hair and sweetness) clicked, each kid and I would click softly
right after. No giggling, no even looking at her. I don't know whether the
kids in that English class were doing the reinforcement elsewhere or not, but
in class, for a week, we clicked when she clicked. Only by Friday she wasn't
clicking.

And no big deal was made by anybody about it. We didn't discuss it anymore.

It had never involved either punishment or reward.

I'm still amazed at that many 14 and 15 year olds being that mature and
matter-of-fact in a school setting. It could have gone badly, but it was a
good group and they trusted me and there was good will all around.

MAYBE if a child has a habit she wants to break (Holly bites her nails and
when she runs out of nails starts on cuticles), finding a little signal which
is inobtrusive just to indicate that you see her and she's doing it, which
isn't judgmental, but just "ping" for her benefit might help.

I hate to see conditioning TOTALLY put in the garbage just because some
people use it roughly.

Sandra

zenmomma *

Every time she
>(I don't remember her name right now, which is fine; I remember her face
>and
>voice and hair and sweetness) clicked, each kid and I would click softly
>right after.

I was thinking about Jennifer's original post. This story Sandra tells
reminds me of the old stop-smoking teqhnique. Every time you would want a
cigarette, you were supposed to snap a rubber band that's around your wrist.
This associates the urge with a tiny, stingy feeling. Negative association?
Maybe we should all wear rubberbands. When we're tempted to yell or be
grumpy Moms we could give ourselves a little snap. Just a quick reminder
that the words we are thining of saying could be painful to our others.

~Mary

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