k

I've been seeing a trend of giving up on social life among unschoolers.

As for my rut, watching tv and being on the computer, I'm alone
> during the day hours. Jeffrey (12) prefers staying in his room all
> day playing his video games, legos, or being on his computer. He
> prefers not to go out of the house unless absolutely necessary.
> Allie (10) is a night owl and stays up until 2am or 3am and then
> sleeps 12 hours. When she wakes up in the afternoon, she likes to
> watch tv and snack for an hour or so. She's ready to go do something
> out of the house around dinner time. Claire (16) sleeps until lunch,
> hangs out on her computer, and waits for her boyfriend to get out of
> school at 3:30pm.


It's not always easy to keep being positive when you're waiting for results
to come in after putting out feelers to make a social life. But if there's
little being done by the parent(s) to encourage the results then the results
aren't likely to magically be encouraging all on their own.

I think it's much easier to feel despondent and give up.

But if I do that, I *know* without any doubt that Karl will go to school.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I've been seeing a trend of giving up on social life among
unschoolers.-=-

I live in a part of the country where there are isolated ranches, and
used to be way more of them. My grandmother lived with her siblings
and parents and an uncle or two way far from towns in southern New
Mexico when she was little. She was super excited to go to high
school (I used to think in Carizozo, but I think maybe in Lincoln and
maybe Carizozo was their grocery store town... I should ask one of
my great aunts before it's too late).

They hung around with their siblings and other relatives, and their
dog and their horses.

Is it a part of deschooling we've been missing, maybe, that makes
people feel like they need to find unschoolers to hang around with or
they'll have no life at all? Leaving school to live in the real
world shouldn't mean leaving school-world to live in unschooling-world.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

> > Is it a part of deschooling we've been missing, maybe, that makes
> > people feel like they need to find unschoolers to hang around with or
> > they'll have no life at all? Leaving school to live in the real
> > world shouldn't mean leaving school-world to live in unschooling-world.

I don't think there *is* an unschooling-world except in isolated pockets.
And I also think it's *isolating* to only be around other unschoolers and no
one else, even when that's possible. Smacks way too much of my own highly
sheltered childhood in a rural Christian home in the South. Not something I
want to replicate by substituting unschooling for Christianity.

I do think though that unschoolers want an unschooling-friendly social
life. That part I think is important. And it's a lot easier to find
unschooling-friendly groups than it is to find an unschooling-world.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Meghan Anderson-Coates

<<<<<<<<Is it a part of deschooling we've been missing, maybe, that makes
people feel like they need to find unschoolers to hang around with or
they'll have no life at all? Leaving school to live in the real
world shouldn't mean leaving school-world to live in unschooling- world.

Sandra>>>>>>>>>>
�
I'm not sure, but I do know if we had a social life�only with other�unschoolers, we'd have a very small, narrow life! I love hanging out with other unschooling families and sharing, but to be dependent on other unschooling families entirely seems somehow cultish to me.


Meghan
�

Why not go out on a limb? Isn�t that where the fruit is?
~ Frank Scully




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

>
> Is it a part of deschooling we've been missing
>

I don't know if it's school or not (don't think so), but I have heard things
like "we hit it right off" (and there's nothing wrong with the sentiment).
Like a cliche. Or the opposite assumption that if you don't click then it's
not meant to happen.

Maybe that and a similar kind of thing can become glib expectations that if
friends and social life aren't automatic then one isn't good at it or others
are somehow not up to par or something like that.

I don't attribute that stuff to school but it's everywhere ... such that
nobody finds it remarkable.

It can be another false meme to be aware of. It *is* possible for people to
change, or become more like minded with others, to grow in more or less
even/uneven patterns with their friends (past and present). It's also
possible for people lives to become more fleshed out for others, and we can
learn cool things about them we didn't know before hanging out with them.
We can't know any of that if we don't spend enough time to find it out.

Maybe people get so careful or busy or whatever that very little happens to
them socially, and this can have a larger effect in a small group or type of
homeschoolers like unschoolers are.

So of course unschoolers limit themselves severely when they seek out
unschoolers only for a social life. And because unschooling takes on
something very like religious fervor --since it *is* about our dear sweet
children-- the word unschooler means different things to different people.
And that's also part of the social dilemma of finding like minded folks to
hang out with.

But all that isn't automatically part of an unschooler's social dilemma.
Just as we're learning to be more aware in our relationship with our
children, we can become more aware in relationships to others in the wider
world.

For some people this isn't anything to think about because they've been
keenly aware socially before they even got to the point of unschooling their
children. For others, like me, it *is* something to think about.
Especially in the context of unschooling which can be seen by so many as
socially unacceptable if it's bluntly or ineffectively presented. That's
where I want to be more patient with myself. I know that once I'm able to
talk with anyone about our lives (whether or not I mention unschooling),
I'll be more comfortable socially. :)

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carnationsgalore

> I love hanging out with other unschooling families and sharing,
> but to be dependent on other unschooling families entirely seems
> somehow cultish to me.

I didn't find too much acceptance in the homeschooling groups I
tried. I've personally encountered groups who only like to hang out
with families that use the same curriculum. At events, the very
first question I'd hear was about curriculum. If I answered
incorrectly, they would literally say 'oh' and walk away. I was
dumbfounded!

Then there were the homeschooling groups that had a mix of people.
While the kids played in the park, the moms sat together at a table
and compared notes on curriculum and behavior. I made the homeschool
choices (curriculum) I did because of a desire to fit in. When I'd
call us unschoolers, I got lots of negative feedback. The nicest
thing someone said to me about unschooling was that it was great I
was doing it with my young kids and how much she (the talker) had
enjoyed unschooling until they finally reached the age
where "learning really matters". Huh?

When I finally met another unschooling family, I was actually giddy.
It was so nice to talk with another person without talk of
curriculum, behaviors, coercion methods and preparing for the
future.

Beth M.

carnationsgalore

Under this subject heading, I have some questions. What do you, as
an unschooling parent, do to help your child leave their comfort zone
to be more social?

I've posted before about my dd10 wanting to be more social. I was
told I needed to step out of my comfort zone and learn to be more
social so my children would have more opportunities to be social. I
feel like I've done a great deal to find social opportunities and
none of them have worked out. I truly do want to give up entirely
but I don't share that sentiment with my children. My son Jeffrey
(12) doesn't like being around a bunch of people, or trying new
things. Unschoolers have told me that respecting his personally set
boundaries is important.

How do I find that fine line between respecting my children's
boundaries and helping them step out of their comfort zone? I feel
like I'm being told to be different than I am because I'm an adult.
It's not easy for me at all to do things that make me feel
uncomfortable. I've never been pushed to do uncomfortable things
until my adult/parenting years. If my children's boundaries should
be respected, why shouldn't mine be?

Beth M.

k

>
> I didn't find too much acceptance in the homeschooling groups I
> tried. I've personally encountered groups who only like to hang out
> with families that use the same curriculum. At events, the very
> first question I'd hear was about curriculum. If I answered
> incorrectly, they would literally say 'oh' and walk away. I was
> dumbfounded!
>

One idea is not to depend on homeschooling groups if they're too narrow or
boring or dry. I have a nice group here that I go to. It's not as active
as I like. I don't want to sit and talk with the ladies and that's it. I
like that but I want to something to *do* too. I think I learn more about
people by doing things together. So I'm starting a CampFire USA club (there
isn't a council in South Carolina). So far so good.. 4 families in a week
after posting the idea on a local list.

If a homeschooling group isn't interesting the reflection on you that you
are perceiving isn't about you if you just arrived. It's about them.

~Katherine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

It sounds like your daughter is saying she at least wishes she could be more
social. If this is not comfortable for you, and if she doesn't have any
other means to arrange a social life for herself, do you know of any other
individual who would be willing to help her?

~Katherine



On 9/10/08, carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...> wrote:
>
> Under this subject heading, I have some questions. What do you, as
> an unschooling parent, do to help your child leave their comfort zone
> to be more social?
>
> I've posted before about my dd10 wanting to be more social. I was
> told I needed to step out of my comfort zone and learn to be more
> social so my children would have more opportunities to be social. I
> feel like I've done a great deal to find social opportunities and
> none of them have worked out. I truly do want to give up entirely
> but I don't share that sentiment with my children. My son Jeffrey
> (12) doesn't like being around a bunch of people, or trying new
> things. Unschoolers have told me that respecting his personally set
> boundaries is important.
>
> How do I find that fine line between respecting my children's
> boundaries and helping them step out of their comfort zone? I feel
> like I'm being told to be different than I am because I'm an adult.
> It's not easy for me at all to do things that make me feel
> uncomfortable. I've never been pushed to do uncomfortable things
> until my adult/parenting years. If my children's boundaries should
> be respected, why shouldn't mine be?
>
> Beth M.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jennifer Varela

>
> <<<<<<<<Is it a part of deschooling we've been missing, maybe, that makes
> people feel like they need to find unschoolers to hang around with or
> they'll have no life at all? Leaving school to live in the real
> world shouldn't mean leaving school-world to live in unschooling- world.
>
> Sandra>>>>>>>>>>
>


When we were beginning our unschooling journey, I now realize, I had some
false ideas about how to put it into practice. My thoughts revolved around
what I perceived was disrespectful treatment of my daughter. I felt no one
had any rights to infringe upon my daughters autonomy with their rules.
Which meant no one was ever to say 'no' to her, no one was ever to treat her
in any other way but exactly the way *I* treat her. Which is different than
just wanting people to be nice to my child. It was fear-based, rebellion
against mainstream parenting.

Now I see that this did her no favors. It caused us to not have very many
friends and I was lamenting on the lack of unschoolers or true unschoolers
near me. I felt that if we met unschoolers they'd treat us better than
these "outsiders" have. When I did meet two other unschooling famlies, I
didn't feel they were true unschoolers because both moms had asked their
children not to do something while we were with them. I have no idea where
I got the idea that unschoolers = unparenting, but, there it was.

Fortunately, from reading here and the discussions in the past about this,
I've changed my thinking. We currently have quite a few friends that we
hang out with on a regular basis. A couple of Unschoolers, a couple
of Homeschoolers and a montessouri family. We are open to friendships with
anyone to whom we feel a connection. This has widened my children's world,
instead of making it smaller. I still am looking to start an unschooling
group, meeting at my house maybe once a month. More if it works out well.
Unfortunately, we have run into other unparents. It's hard to see your
previous bad behavior right in your face. I see why others ran from us,
because my children don't wish to be treated badly, either.

Jen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-But all that isn't automatically part of an unschooler's social
dilemma.
Just as we're learning to be more aware in our relationship with our
children, we can become more aware in relationships to others in the
wider
world.-=-

This is a really good point.

Lifted from the middle of a paragraph, so somewhat out of context but
K also wrote:

-=-Especially in the context of unschooling which can be seen by so
many as socially unacceptable if it's bluntly or ineffectively
presented.-=-

Or if it's bluntly or ineffectively lived. Some people create an
unschooling environment that's very unwelcoming or unaccommodating of
others! There are unschoolers I don't want to hang out with because
the parents don't seem to have advised their kids at ALL about
courtesy to others. There are unschoolers who have expected (and
stated as much) that they want me and my kids to accommodate their
children's behavior. My kids have been super sweet to autistic
strangers and Asperger's unschoolers who came to our playgroup. They
brought the autistic kid's mom to tears with their generous
behavior. But they did it because THEY were cool, not because he was
being cool.

That phrase comes from a conversation years back with one of my SCA
apprentice/protege people (in the SCA some people use one or the
other of those terms, depending, but I don't usually use either, I
just say "student," but that's a little jarring in the context of an
unschooling discussion). He was feeling pretty smug and self
satisfied because someone else who outranked him had been very kind
and helpful to him. I told him it was because the other guy was
wonderful, not because he was wonderful.

Too often, I think, people take the social advances of others as
proof that they themselves are wonderful, and so they take for
granted those beginning friendships and they don't think to
reciprocate, or to do their part to make sure the time together is
rich and fun.



But as to being sociable, I strongly believe it's a natural
intelligence. Of course people can learn courtesies and formulate an
internal checklists of ways to remember to try to be, just like those
who aren't natural-born spellers can have their spelling tricks and
memory devices.

Anyway... Gardner's intelligences, for anyone who's wondering at
this point what I could possibly be thinking.

http://sandradodd.com/intelligences



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-I felt no one
had any rights to infringe upon my daughters autonomy with their rules.
Which meant no one was ever to say 'no' to her, no one was ever to
treat her
in any other way but exactly the way *I* treat her.-=-



Ah...

I wrote my post before I read this.

It's nice to read from a mom who got that and changed, because some
of those I was remembering and picturing don't have social skills
either, and they don't know a change could help, or might not be able
to ask for help or implement suggestions if they had them.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jennifer Varela

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 11:00 AM, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:

> >>>It's nice to read from a mom who got that and changed, because some
> of those I was remembering and picturing don't have social skills
> either, and they don't know a change could help, or might not be able
> to ask for help or implement suggestions if they had them.<<<


I don't have the best social skills. I have had to stretch myself and
learn. I needed to put myself into situations with other people even though
I might feel a little uncomfortable at first. I knew that my children
needed me to help them. It was something I really had to work at. It also
wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. ;-)

Also, in the back of my mind, I thought my kids would freak if I asked them
not to do something and I was afraid of that big reaction in front of
people. Nope. Unfounded. They actually didn't have any issues when I
started asking them to be courteous. I still think about the guitar story
and how you mentioned you'd be upset if a 3yr old came into your house and
started strumming roughly on your guitar and the mom did nothing. My son
DID that and I remember standing there thinking that I didn't want to mess
with his exploration, but, felt bad for my aunt (who owned the guitar) and I
didn't know what to do. Thankfully, I did come to a good answer (sitting
on the couch, holding the guitar, showing him now to gently strum). She
wasn't happy that he turned the knobs and un-tuned the guitar, though. So,
the next time we went and he beelined for the guitar (she had forgotten to
put it up) I told him that she wasn't comfortable with him playing that,
but, that there were lots of other interesting things to play with. Guess
what.. He was FINE with that!

Jen


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joyce Fetteroll

On Sep 10, 2008, at 9:09 AM, carnationsgalore wrote:

> I've posted before about my dd10 wanting to be more social. I was
> told I needed to step out of my comfort zone and learn to be more
> social so my children would have more opportunities to be social. I
> feel like I've done a great deal to find social opportunities and
> none of them have worked out. I truly do want to give up entirely
> but I don't share that sentiment with my children.

I'm betting that when you're out being social for your daughter that
there's an aura coming from you of not wanting to do the social
thing. I'm betting there's some "I did my part and she didn't like
it. She needs to at least try to like what I'm working so hard to do
for her." And I'm guessing that because I've had the same thoughts
running through my head as I push my social boundaries. ;-)

Maybe instead of the goal being social, focus on the things she
enjoys. Even adults who are desperate to make new friends find it
difficult until they stop trying to make friends and start focusing
on finding activities they enjoy. Probably because they project an
aura. When they're looking for friends they probably feel desperate
and it keeps people away. When they're focused on having fun, they
project a more relaxed, fun aura.

> My son Jeffrey
> (12) doesn't like being around a bunch of people, or trying new
> things. Unschoolers have told me that respecting his personally set
> boundaries is important.

Is he comfortable staying home by himself?

Someone recently mentioned, maybe on another list, that she has set
days for out of the house and set days for in home and makes sure she
doesn't do any errands on home days. If it's not dependable and seems
random when out and home happen, the kids can have totally different
perceptions of how much of each is happening. So the stay at home kid
will feel like you're always out and the going out kid will feel like
you're always at home.

> How do I find that fine line between respecting my children's
> boundaries and helping them step out of their comfort zone?

Whose comfort zone? Your son's so your daughter can be more social?
If he doesn't want to be more social then you aren't helping him,
you're pushing him.

Someone also mentioned that they bring lots of solitary stuff for
their stay at home kid for him to do while he waits for his sibling
(s) to be done, make sort of like a nest for him away from home. Make
him helping her get out be as easy for him as possible. And make her
helping him be at home as easy for her as possible.

> I feel
> like I'm being told to be different than I am because I'm an adult.

No, the suggestion is that if you want to hold onto your nonsocial
ways you'll get in the way of helping your daughter be with people
more. When there are several goals, eventually one goal will get in
the way of another and you have to choose.

Since you chose to have children rather than remain childless, that
means you chose all that goes with having children, even being out in
society with social kids when you'd rather be home.

> It's not easy for me at all to do things that make me feel
> uncomfortable. I've never been pushed to do uncomfortable things
> until my adult/parenting years. If my children's boundaries should
> be respected, why shouldn't mine be?

Your daughter isn't disrespecting your boundaries by being social.
She has a need that's not being met. She didn't choose to be social
to irk you. You may not be directly thinking that, but the idea may
be half formed in the back of your mind even if you know it's not true.

Since you've had way more years on the planet, since you chose to
invite the kids into your lives, it's part of the whole package deal
to find ways to meet your needs without taking from your kids. They
didn't sign up to be supporters of your needs. The glorious thing,
though, is that the more we take their needs seriously and work hard
at finding ways to meet them, the more they're willing to accommodate
us when they're able.

Joyce




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

>
> Too often, I think, people take the social advances of others as
> proof that they themselves are wonderful, and so they take for
> granted those beginning friendships and they don't think to
> reciprocate, or to do their part to make sure the time together is
> rich and fun.
>
>

I remember very clearly, when I was about 13/14 having a bit of an
epiphany in regards to friendships and making friends. It was something
that just clicked for me at the time, where previously I hadn't even
considered it at all.

It was the idea of feeling good when others came to me and introduced
themselves and said something kind or nice to me. It felt good and I
liked it. Suddenly I realized that I could do that to other people. I
could introduce myself to others and say kind things and make other
people feel good. It was huge for me! I changed my world!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

I've never been pushed to do uncomfortable things
> until my adult/parenting years. If my children's boundaries should
> be respected, why shouldn't mine be?
>
>

Right now, Chamille and I are in the midst of doing this
http://www.frighttown.com/ <http://www.frighttown.com/> . We are
making a costume and helping with the sets and props, then we will be
actors in the event.

I have never ever ever in my life been into scary things. I really
don't like it at all. Chamille loves it! I am volunteering with her
because she is technically too young and that was the arrangement that
we made with the place that would allow her to do this. It pushes me
Waaaayyy out of my comfort zone, but I'm doing it because I absolutely
love Chamille and I want her to be able to do what she wants to do
because it makes her happy and she is really in her element there.

I push my own thoughts aside and keep Chamille in the forefront of my
choices, she is what is shining brighter then my own discomfort.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

cathyandgarth

--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...>
wrote:
>
> It pushes me
> Waaaayyy out of my comfort zone,
>

This is one of the things I love about an unschooling lifestyle. I
have been pushed out of my comfort zone a lot, and each time I can't
believe how much I learn. Who would have guessed that I would love
karate so much? And the hip hop class I took with my kids?! I felt
like a fool, but then I had so much fun that I have signed up for an
adult modern dance class this fall (I fell flat during a turn last
night, graceful I am not), I have been learning more about sewing
because my DD needs help and is passionate (and knitting is probably
next), allowing myself to delve into Japanese anime with my son has
openned up a whole world of trying to learn Japanese so I can help
him when he wants to watch the original versions, and I could go on
and on.

I would never want my comfort zone to dictate my willingness to
assist my kids in persuing their passions ... in fact, I would never
want my comfort zone to dictate my willingness to persue my own
interests. Comfort zones are really quite arbitrary, based on
previous experiences and the stories that you tell yourself about
those experience. You always have the choice to revise your
interpretation of a comfort zone.

As my DD always, says: "I don't like that today, but I know things
change, so I might like it another day."

Cathy

Sandra Dodd

-=-> I feel like I'm being told to be different than I am because I'm
an adult.-=-

I'm not sure exactly to what that refers, but if it comes down to
either the child or the mom adapting to the other, the mom should
adapt to the child.
If the "different" you might feel you need to be has to do with being
a better mom, it's worth considering.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

This is very sweet:
"she is what is shining brighter then my own discomfort.">

Sometimes when I say no to one of my kids I start to feel terrible
almost immediately, and I go and try to get them to let me take it
back and go with "yes." I don't thin anything in my whole life has
made me feel as good as knowledge or evidence that I was being a good
mom, and that my kids were happy with their lives.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-At events, the very
> first question I'd hear was about curriculum. If I answered
> incorrectly, they would literally say 'oh' and walk away. I was
> dumbfounded!-=-

When Kirby was five and Marty was two or three, we went to a
"Homeschooling Science club" meeting at a park near our house. It
had been advertised in the state homeschooling newsletter. We walked
up happy and expectant, and there were maybe eight moms sitting on
blankets. I walked up toward the middle of the group and I
introduced myself, and the boys, and one mom said "Do you use
Sonlight, or Abeka?"



I said "We're unschoolers." The hole they had kind of tentatively
made for me to join was almost physically closed up. They all looked
at each other shifty-eyed instead of at me. <g>

But one mom said "The big boys are playing over there, and the little
boys are there," and pointed. Kirby would've gone with "the big
boys," but they wanted to play together. They wandered around
awkwardly, I think, kinda seeing if anything was interesting. It did
NOT seem to be permission for them to choose to play with the big
girls or the little girls.

In the playgroup we were used to, the kids ranged from infants to ten
year olds, and they all played together, or however they chose to.
This was very foreign to all of us. I did sit with the moms a little
bit, but they were uptight and boring and not one of them was getting
off the ground to go and interact with kids, though a couple of them
did yell across to tell a kid to stop doing something or other.

They were like my mom and her relatives, when I was little, only they
weren't sitting at a table with beer and cigarettes. But they were
not there doing anything like science, and they weren't there with
their children. They were there with the other moms, and the
children were divided into four groups and were in danger of breaking
rules and being reprimanded.

I got up and went and talked to Kirby and Marty, and we left when
we'd been there long enough that it wouldn't seem really rude.
Nobody invited me back, but that's okay.



I was probably wearing jeans and none of them were, too. I was
probably pregnant with Holly.



I was dumbfounded just at first, and then realized it had to do with
me being a potentially evil influence over their Christian families.
They were homeschooling to get their kids away from people like me.

Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

carnationsgalore

> I push my own thoughts aside and keep Chamille in the forefront of
my
> choices, she is what is shining brighter then my own discomfort.

Very good point! I'd like to clarify, I was unclear in what I wrote
because I was talking about 2 of my children in the same post. My
very social daughter Allie (10) and I will do things that I would
choose not to do because I know she needs it. And I love being with
her and seeing her so happy.

My son Jeffrey (12), on the other hand, does not like being social.
I never push him to go out of his comfort zone because I respect his
boundaries. But part of me is worried that he'll have great
difficulty as I have had with pushing my own boundaries. I feel like
I'm telling him it's perfectly acceptable to stay within his own
comfort zone as long as he's a child but that once he's an adult,
he'll have to feel differently, because that's what I'm living right
now by going out of my comfort zone with his sister.

I'm probably worrying over nothing. I've got to remind myself that
my son is only 12 years old and still has many years of childhood
left.

Beth M.

k

Yet has become one of my favorite words since encountering unschooling. I
don't dance much yet. I don't usually eat much raw broccoli but maybe I
haven't tried it very many ways yet so the jury's still out ... I kinda
sorta like it with hummus but not that much.

We went to a very encouraging park day today and not to long ago Karl has
been stymied by some kids he has known and played with for years. He was in
the "once bitten twice shy" mode for several homebodying weeks. We took his
playacting clothes today to park day and the kids were so much into trying
on all the costumes that Karl was a bit taken aback. It was amazing what an
icebreaker they were. He warmed up much more quickly than he has been wont
to do in the recent past. So... he hasn't made fast friends with anyone yet
but he had fun today. In the meantime he has been watching the intensely
sociable Scooby Doo cartoons on youtube for days on end, and spouting things
like "what am I... chopped liver?"

~Katherine



On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 3:35 PM, cathyandgarth <familialewis@...> wrote:

> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > It pushes me
> > Waaaayyy out of my comfort zone,
> >
>
> This is one of the things I love about an unschooling lifestyle. I
> have been pushed out of my comfort zone a lot, and each time I can't
> believe how much I learn. Who would have guessed that I would love
> karate so much? And the hip hop class I took with my kids?! I felt
> like a fool, but then I had so much fun that I have signed up for an
> adult modern dance class this fall (I fell flat during a turn last
> night, graceful I am not), I have been learning more about sewing
> because my DD needs help and is passionate (and knitting is probably
> next), allowing myself to delve into Japanese anime with my son has
> openned up a whole world of trying to learn Japanese so I can help
> him when he wants to watch the original versions, and I could go on
> and on.
>
> I would never want my comfort zone to dictate my willingness to
> assist my kids in persuing their passions ... in fact, I would never
> want my comfort zone to dictate my willingness to persue my own
> interests. Comfort zones are really quite arbitrary, based on
> previous experiences and the stories that you tell yourself about
> those experience. You always have the choice to revise your
> interpretation of a comfort zone.
>
> As my DD always, says: "I don't like that today, but I know things
> change, so I might like it another day."
>
> Cathy
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

I feel like
> I'm telling him it's perfectly acceptable to stay within his own
> comfort zone as long as he's a child but that once he's an adult,
> he'll have to feel differently, because that's what I'm living right
> now by going out of my comfort zone with his sister.
>


There is this man that lives near us. I don't know him personally, but
lots of people know who he is. If you work in Oregon and work in the
electronics industry, you may have heard of him. He is somewhat of a
genius, but hates to be around people. Intel hired him and they pay him
a large amount of money and accept whatever working conditions he wants,
which turns out, is from home.

Just because, your son grows up, doesn't mean that he'll have to change
how or who he is. If he does, it will be his choice. Just like it's my
choice to go out of my comfort zone for my kids, it's my choice. I
don't have to do it, but I do because the benefits to my kids far
outweigh my discomfort.

Margaret

I would think that the main reason that you go out of your comfort
zone for her is that she is your child, not that you are an adult.

It may be that he has to go out of his comfort zone to get a job that
he wants or to go to college if that is what he wants. . He may
decide that it is worth it to do those things in order to get what he
wants. He may find something next month that is appealing enough to
make going out of his comfort zone worthwhile.

And, of course, having children... but they would be his children and
hopefully he will be able to take care of them and help them joyfully,
even if it means doing something he wouldn't normally do.


On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM, carnationsgalore
<addled.homemaker@...> wrote:

> My son Jeffrey (12), on the other hand, does not like being social.
> I never push him to go out of his comfort zone because I respect his
> boundaries. But part of me is worried that he'll have great
> difficulty as I have had with pushing my own boundaries. I feel like
> I'm telling him it's perfectly acceptable to stay within his own
> comfort zone as long as he's a child but that once he's an adult,
> he'll have to feel differently, because that's what I'm living right
> now by going out of my comfort zone with his sister.

[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From: carnationsgalore <addled.homemaker@...>

How do I find that fine line between respecting my children's
boundaries and helping them step out of their comfort zone? I feel
like I'm being told to be different than I am because I'm an adult.
It's not easy for me at all to do things that make me feel
uncomfortable. I've never been pushed to do uncomfortable things
until my adult/parenting years. If my children's boundaries should
be respected, why shouldn't mine be?

-=-=-=-=-

Because you're the *parent*.

It's not an adult/child issue. It's a *parent/child* issue. It's not
about *age*, but about *relationship*.

And you don't *have to*----you *can* CHOOSE to.

As *parents*, we put ourselves into all sorts of uncomfortable
positions. It's part of being a parent. You don't HAVE TO, of
course---there are certainly options. But the love we have for our
children tends to *enable* us to do so much more for *them* than for
anyone/thing else in the world.

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy
Conference Coordinator
Live and Learn Unschooling Conference
http://www.LiveandLearnConference.org

carnationsgalore

> It may be that he has to go out of his comfort zone to get a job
> that he wants or to go to college if that is what he wants. .
> He may decide that it is worth it to do those things in order to
> get what he wants. He may find something next month that is
> appealing enough to make going out of his comfort zone worthwhile.

Yes, of course. I knew this. I know this. I got caught up in the
worries of others. Since starting my new job, I've become the
subject of the preschool with my crazy homeschooling lifestyle. I've
fielded questions that I haven't had to answer in a long time. They
obviously settled in my brain and now I've got to shake them loose!

Jeffrey (12) is loving life these days. He is happily engrossed in
his video games on his Playstation 3 system. One of his favorite
things to do is find glitches in the games. He reads about them on a
game forum and then tries to find them in the game himself. He gets
really excited when he finds something on his own. I remember what
he was like when he felt stressed and pressured and I know it wasn't
good for him at all.

Beth M.

Sandra Dodd

-=-One of his favorite
things to do is find glitches in the games. He reads about them on a
game forum and then tries to find them in the game himself.-=-



Holly and Marty have had a lot of fun finding out what the programs
would do if they did unpredictable things. Often the programmers did
include a response to an odd action (I'm thinking of Harvest Moon at
the moment), and sometimes they find some interesting glitch or
outcome. Holly took a chicken to church in one Harvest Moon game and
left it there. It stayed alive. It didn't lay eggs, but it didn't
need to be fed, either. It showed, still there, moving around like a
chicken does, when she'd go to the church. She watered a chicken
with a watering can once, and the chicken became invisible. It still
laid eggs, and it was in her inventory, but it didn't show.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn L. Coburn

I just reposted an article about socializing that was originally in
Connections, on my blog at
http://familyrun.ning.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2184370%3ABlogPost%3A27214 .
Here's a quote:

"Recently someone posted on one of the lists about moving outside of her
comfort zone for the sake of defending her child. I am lucky that it seems
Jayn rarely needs defending. But I am going to have to step out of my timid
comfort zone if I am ever to have more friends for myself and offer Jayn a
wider circle. I am going to have to find a way to get past shyness. I need
to connect proactively with the other parents I meet at such places as Jayn's
new ballet class, and at the future interests that she chooses, so that I
can facilitate the practical aspects of meeting up with her new friends. One
adjustment I can make is to lower my expectations from seeking more
soulmates to seeking pleasant acquaintances, and Trust that the deeper
desire will be manifested by the Universe."

I wrote that a year ago. She doesn't go to ballet any more. If anything she
relies even more strongly on our less than ideal neighbors.

<<< If my children's boundaries should
> be respected, why shouldn't mine be? >>>

I wanted to address something inspired by this last sentence above.

Respecting your own children's boundaries is something that you can control
by your own actions and make the choice to enact. However holding on to an
expectation about what other people will do is tying your happiness or
comfort to the actions of others. This is not something that you can
control.

Young children, are always going to put their own needs before their
parents' - even if they are able to perceive them. Empathy comes eventually.

I have noticed how much energy unschooling parents are willing to put into
their kid's joy. One thing we do is devise unusual strategies to help us
through those comfort zone stretch times.

For example with me, just as I used to take a book everywhere when I was a
child, now I take a bit of crafting along - usually some beading on my
latest doll, or some plastic bag crochet. This gives other people a
conversational opening, and it gives me something to focus on instead of my
own fears and shyness. However unlike a book or magazine, I am still able to
talk to people at the same time. Plus kids are usually interested too. If
no-one wants to talk to me, I don't feel or look anxious about it.

Another is that I make use of technology. Using email to talk about a recent
problem is much less confronting than face to face sometimes.

As for Jayn's comfort zone, I don't ever push her out of it. Her personality
won't stand for it. I comfort her with hugs and cuddles. Later I talk to her
about some place where she is stuck, and suggest alternatives she could be
doing. She vehemently refuses, and I stop and remind her that it is her
choice. Then I stay silent for a brief period. She may continue to say "no"
or be silent herself. Then some undefinable time, usually shortly,
thereafter she enacts my suggestion. Her bluster and denial are her ways of
pushing herself through that comfort barrier.

Maybe I use bluster and refusal in the same way in my self talk.


Robyn L. Coburn
www.Iggyjingles.etsy.com
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com

k

I made a surprising discovery yesterday, maybe it was purely by accident. I
didn't consciously intend it to do what it did.

I took a bunch of play clothes to share with the other kids. Showing up at
play dates without something to do in a new social circle just doesn't feel
right to me. I want to offer or contribute something toward a fun
atmosphere.

What I saw happen is that Karl who I knew has been feeling awkward with
other kids (because of a ridiculous mess that happened with some kids not
too long ago) was able to focus on and talk about the play clothes and he
worked through a couple of things about them not asking permission to use
the play clothes, and through that focus, he was able to see that the other
children there wanted to hang out with him and play together with them..
that they liked him just fine and wanted to be there. He soon let go of
tussling over the play clothes and went off with the other kids to the
playground area. The play clothes gave him a bridge for interacting with
others.

Another time, I took some art stuff with us, really for my own benefit, and
it turned out to be something that Karl was able to do more than me. And I
used it too.

I really don't do small talk that much. It's pleasant but I'm not of the
turn of mind that does much of it. So it's imperative for me to have stuff
to do while I'm there so I can stay long enough to get to know others.

~Katherine



On 9/11/08, Robyn L. Coburn <dezigna@...> wrote:
>
> I
> As for Jayn's comfort zone, I don't ever push her out of it. Her
> personality
> won't stand for it. I comfort her with hugs and cuddles. Later I talk to
> her
> about some place where she is stuck, and suggest alternatives she could be
> doing. She vehemently refuses, and I stop and remind her that it is her
> choice. Then I stay silent for a brief period. She may continue to say "no"
>
> or be silent herself. Then some undefinable time, usually shortly,
> thereafter she enacts my suggestion. Her bluster and denial are her ways of
>
> pushing herself through that comfort barrier.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pamela Sorooshian

On Sep 11, 2008, at 1:15 PM, k wrote:

>
> I took a bunch of play clothes to share with the other kids.
> Showing up at
> play dates without something to do in a new social circle just
> doesn't feel
> right to me. I want to offer or contribute something toward a fun
> atmosphere.

I always recommend this to parents who are coming to park day for the
first time or whose kid isn't finding it easy to make headway
integrating into the group of kids at a park day. If they persist, and
bring something to attract other kids and give them something over
which they can connect, it can really help a lot. Some of them have
brought small animals - pet rats, for example. One (who is on this
list) brought their little kittens. For younger kids, dress-ups are a
GREAT idea. I love it.

A friend of mine who used to haul a huge box load of toy weapons to
our park days - mostly wooden swords of various kinds, but some guns
and knives, too. Her son was about 8 to 10 years old - the other kids
would swarm around the box and they'd get all kinds of games started,
with all the kids participating. I'm sure some people objected to the
weapons, but the kids really loved them.

-pam