Sleep Deprivation
[email protected]
Hello!
Perhaps this has not much to do with unschooling per se, except that perhaps
some of you may have faced the same question, so I beg for your experienced
wisdom.
I'm interested in ideas about how to avoid sleep deprivation (in me). My son
(nearly 12) and husband are both early risers (husband up at 5:30 a.m., son
shortly thereafter). My daughter (2) is a VERY late stayer-upper. I am a very
light sleeper. We have a very small (2-bedroom) house. I thought it was
clever to colocate the early risers in the other bedroom, leaving the night
owl with me, but despite this plan, I still end up waking up whenever my son
and husband do (perhaps I am a closet early-riser?). And once awake, I'm the
sort who can't fall back asleep. Things weren't so bad until my daughter
began eschewing her afternoon nap (when I could catch up on mine, too, as
long as I could completely darken the room and the groundskeeper for Sengen
didn't come to bang away in the garage [we live in a barn cottage that is
over the garage for an old 19th-century estate]).
One thing that may be important is that my daughter wants to be
full-on-engaged with someone when she is awake. Thus, she doesn't just play
happily by herself, but will continue to wake people up to play with her. I
figured since my husband has to go to work all day and be functional, it
isn't fair to ask him to be the one to be woken up until 2 or 3 in the
morning with her. I also don't think it would be fair of me to try waking her
up with us first thing in the morning in order to try to "make her adjust"
(as some friends/family have suggested), since she needs and deserves her
sleep, too.
I figured that eventually, having interesting stuff go on in the house in the
mornings when she was still asleep (she generally sleeps until 11 or so)
would pique her interest and gradually have her up, too, but that's not the
case.
Ideas? (Short of moving to another, bigger house -- we'd love to do that one,
but can't afford to right now...) (We tried all three of us in one bedroom
and her in another, but then she just wakes us *all* up in search of a
playmate.)
And opinions: is it unreasonable of me to ask my husband to plan some trip
with the children some weekend and take them by himself for the sole purpose
of me getting sleep and cleaning the house? (housecleaning appears to be the
thing that falls by the wayside when I'm way-tired. My son and husband do
their own laundry, but they are not big cleaners. I get ooked out when things
aren't clean -- clutter isn't a problem, dirt is.) Or is that just too
irresponsible/selfish of me?
Peace,
Wynn
suddenly thinking of organizing a band named "Nekkid Stone Hooters" (after
all, there's Barenaked Ladies, Stone Temple Pilots and the Hooters, why not
just combine 'em?)
Perhaps this has not much to do with unschooling per se, except that perhaps
some of you may have faced the same question, so I beg for your experienced
wisdom.
I'm interested in ideas about how to avoid sleep deprivation (in me). My son
(nearly 12) and husband are both early risers (husband up at 5:30 a.m., son
shortly thereafter). My daughter (2) is a VERY late stayer-upper. I am a very
light sleeper. We have a very small (2-bedroom) house. I thought it was
clever to colocate the early risers in the other bedroom, leaving the night
owl with me, but despite this plan, I still end up waking up whenever my son
and husband do (perhaps I am a closet early-riser?). And once awake, I'm the
sort who can't fall back asleep. Things weren't so bad until my daughter
began eschewing her afternoon nap (when I could catch up on mine, too, as
long as I could completely darken the room and the groundskeeper for Sengen
didn't come to bang away in the garage [we live in a barn cottage that is
over the garage for an old 19th-century estate]).
One thing that may be important is that my daughter wants to be
full-on-engaged with someone when she is awake. Thus, she doesn't just play
happily by herself, but will continue to wake people up to play with her. I
figured since my husband has to go to work all day and be functional, it
isn't fair to ask him to be the one to be woken up until 2 or 3 in the
morning with her. I also don't think it would be fair of me to try waking her
up with us first thing in the morning in order to try to "make her adjust"
(as some friends/family have suggested), since she needs and deserves her
sleep, too.
I figured that eventually, having interesting stuff go on in the house in the
mornings when she was still asleep (she generally sleeps until 11 or so)
would pique her interest and gradually have her up, too, but that's not the
case.
Ideas? (Short of moving to another, bigger house -- we'd love to do that one,
but can't afford to right now...) (We tried all three of us in one bedroom
and her in another, but then she just wakes us *all* up in search of a
playmate.)
And opinions: is it unreasonable of me to ask my husband to plan some trip
with the children some weekend and take them by himself for the sole purpose
of me getting sleep and cleaning the house? (housecleaning appears to be the
thing that falls by the wayside when I'm way-tired. My son and husband do
their own laundry, but they are not big cleaners. I get ooked out when things
aren't clean -- clutter isn't a problem, dirt is.) Or is that just too
irresponsible/selfish of me?
Peace,
Wynn
suddenly thinking of organizing a band named "Nekkid Stone Hooters" (after
all, there's Barenaked Ladies, Stone Temple Pilots and the Hooters, why not
just combine 'em?)
Dan Vilter
On Friday, February 1, 2002, at 05:19 AM, Otterspur@... wrote:
bedroom to create background noise to cover whatever noise from the rest
of the house that was waking me. It just sits there on the dresser
pointed at the ceiling humming away. (2) Strenuous activity. In my
quest to make it to old age comfortably and walking, I started going to
the gym regularly and cycling long distances. Besides the marked
improvement in my health, I found that I sleep *much* more soundly. I am
now famous for ability to fall asleep sitting up in a chair at park
day. How to find the time to do this activity with a 2 year old is a
different question...
unreasonable or at least beside the point. I can see encouraging your
husband to activities with the kids to develop interaction with them
that are unique, rewarding, exclusive, and specially theirs. I think
this is necessity to *his* healthy relationship with the kids. A
byproduct of these activities might be personal time for you to do what
you think is important. If that is to sleep and clean, great. To make it
the sole purpose just seems needlessly mercenary. Time that is
exclusively your own to do whatever, seems elemental and a major
component to good mental health to me. Working this time into the life
of the family regularly for each member is important and for me, needs
to be organic to the family. If it is an event that has to be planned,
it undermines the value of the ruse activity and doesn't become a part
of regular healthy family life.
I would also be encouraging your husband and kids to help with the dirt
or anything else that ookes you out. I have found that being a slave to
other peoples dirt just makes me resentful. That, or I adjust my
relationship with the dirt.
-Dan Vilter
The journey is the reward.
> I am a very light sleeper... And once awake, I'm the sort who can'tTwo things helped me in this situation: (1) A small fan running in the
> fall back asleep...
bedroom to create background noise to cover whatever noise from the rest
of the house that was waking me. It just sits there on the dresser
pointed at the ceiling humming away. (2) Strenuous activity. In my
quest to make it to old age comfortably and walking, I started going to
the gym regularly and cycling long distances. Besides the marked
improvement in my health, I found that I sleep *much* more soundly. I am
now famous for ability to fall asleep sitting up in a chair at park
day. How to find the time to do this activity with a 2 year old is a
different question...
> And opinions: is it unreasonable of me to ask my husband to plan someI don't think it is irresponsible or selfish. But I think it is
> trip
> with the children some weekend and take them by himself for the sole
> purpose
> of me getting sleep and cleaning the house? (housecleaning appears to
> be the
> thing that falls by the wayside when I'm way-tired. My son and husband
> do
> their own laundry, but they are not big cleaners. I get ooked out when
> things
> aren't clean -- clutter isn't a problem, dirt is.) Or is that just too
> irresponsible/selfish of me?
unreasonable or at least beside the point. I can see encouraging your
husband to activities with the kids to develop interaction with them
that are unique, rewarding, exclusive, and specially theirs. I think
this is necessity to *his* healthy relationship with the kids. A
byproduct of these activities might be personal time for you to do what
you think is important. If that is to sleep and clean, great. To make it
the sole purpose just seems needlessly mercenary. Time that is
exclusively your own to do whatever, seems elemental and a major
component to good mental health to me. Working this time into the life
of the family regularly for each member is important and for me, needs
to be organic to the family. If it is an event that has to be planned,
it undermines the value of the ruse activity and doesn't become a part
of regular healthy family life.
I would also be encouraging your husband and kids to help with the dirt
or anything else that ookes you out. I have found that being a slave to
other peoples dirt just makes me resentful. That, or I adjust my
relationship with the dirt.
-Dan Vilter
The journey is the reward.
[email protected]
Do you have a neighbor of a middlin' age (12?13?) who could take her for a
walk or over to the neighbor's house to play or watch videos or color or some
kid-to-kid activity (LIKE babysitting, but not as solely-responsible, since
in case of emergency the kid's mom AND you would be right close)? I used to
do that a fair amount when Holly was a baby and Marty and Kirby were no
longer nap-takers. But I was lucky enough to have a homeschooled family four
houses up.
Can the baby be induced to run, run, run, jump, jump, jump and get tired
sooner? Have you tried the traditional hot bath, warm drink, dark room,
"tranquilty" massage oil, and lullaby tape? I've oiled/darked/musicked kids
to sleep from time to time.
And the last part isn't immediate: this won't last forever. Soon she'll be
able to watch a video, turn it off, and then get in bed quietly. Or, maybe,
put a tv/vcr in the bedroom, put on something you know she likes, and fall
asleep. Put a timer on the TV to turn it off in two hours, or whatever. She
might fall asleep before the video's over.
Kirby has been a night owl since he was in diapers. Maybe that's one reason
I'm so sure videos won't kill a kid's creativity or energy level. And they
saved him from much insult and parental negativity. Now that he's a teen,
he sleeps eight or ten hours. when he was little, never. I assume that
after his growth cycle settles out some he'll end up the kind of adult who
can stay up til after midnight and get to work at 6:30 or 7:00. I've always
been one.
Sandra
Sandra
walk or over to the neighbor's house to play or watch videos or color or some
kid-to-kid activity (LIKE babysitting, but not as solely-responsible, since
in case of emergency the kid's mom AND you would be right close)? I used to
do that a fair amount when Holly was a baby and Marty and Kirby were no
longer nap-takers. But I was lucky enough to have a homeschooled family four
houses up.
Can the baby be induced to run, run, run, jump, jump, jump and get tired
sooner? Have you tried the traditional hot bath, warm drink, dark room,
"tranquilty" massage oil, and lullaby tape? I've oiled/darked/musicked kids
to sleep from time to time.
And the last part isn't immediate: this won't last forever. Soon she'll be
able to watch a video, turn it off, and then get in bed quietly. Or, maybe,
put a tv/vcr in the bedroom, put on something you know she likes, and fall
asleep. Put a timer on the TV to turn it off in two hours, or whatever. She
might fall asleep before the video's over.
Kirby has been a night owl since he was in diapers. Maybe that's one reason
I'm so sure videos won't kill a kid's creativity or energy level. And they
saved him from much insult and parental negativity. Now that he's a teen,
he sleeps eight or ten hours. when he was little, never. I assume that
after his growth cycle settles out some he'll end up the kind of adult who
can stay up til after midnight and get to work at 6:30 or 7:00. I've always
been one.
Sandra
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/1/02 5:20:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, Otterspur@...
writes:
<< And opinions: is it unreasonable of me to ask my husband to plan some trip
with the children some weekend and take them by himself for the sole purpose
of me getting sleep and cleaning the house? (housecleaning appears to be the
thing that falls by the wayside when I'm way-tired. My son and husband do
their own laundry, but they are not big cleaners. I get ooked out when
things
aren't clean -- clutter isn't a problem, dirt is.) Or is that just too
irresponsible/selfish of me? >>
I dont' think your being selfish at all. But if you feel that way maybe just
ask
for an overnighter. But that will only help you catch up this time. If you
turn out the lights will she go to sleep with you or keep playing? Have you
tried taking a nap with her during the day? I napped with my kiddos and
when the oldest stopped napping but the other two still did, I would play
a video quietly in our room while we slept and she played quietly. My kids
stay up late because I am up and they want to be with me. If I want them
to go to bed earlier I have to. I keep telling myself I am going to do that.
Maybe I will tonight as I was up til 12:30 and up again at 4:30-5:00 with dh!
PS. two is really shortlived. She is young--LLL famous saying ---This too
shall pass--really it will : ) AND it sounds like you need more sleep than
you do house cleaning, get yourself rested before you worry about the
rest. Maybe you can pay ds to do some extra cleaning for you around
the house? Or ask him to take dd outside to play while you take a short
nap/breather?
Kathy
writes:
<< And opinions: is it unreasonable of me to ask my husband to plan some trip
with the children some weekend and take them by himself for the sole purpose
of me getting sleep and cleaning the house? (housecleaning appears to be the
thing that falls by the wayside when I'm way-tired. My son and husband do
their own laundry, but they are not big cleaners. I get ooked out when
things
aren't clean -- clutter isn't a problem, dirt is.) Or is that just too
irresponsible/selfish of me? >>
I dont' think your being selfish at all. But if you feel that way maybe just
ask
for an overnighter. But that will only help you catch up this time. If you
turn out the lights will she go to sleep with you or keep playing? Have you
tried taking a nap with her during the day? I napped with my kiddos and
when the oldest stopped napping but the other two still did, I would play
a video quietly in our room while we slept and she played quietly. My kids
stay up late because I am up and they want to be with me. If I want them
to go to bed earlier I have to. I keep telling myself I am going to do that.
Maybe I will tonight as I was up til 12:30 and up again at 4:30-5:00 with dh!
PS. two is really shortlived. She is young--LLL famous saying ---This too
shall pass--really it will : ) AND it sounds like you need more sleep than
you do house cleaning, get yourself rested before you worry about the
rest. Maybe you can pay ds to do some extra cleaning for you around
the house? Or ask him to take dd outside to play while you take a short
nap/breather?
Kathy
Heather Madrone
At 08:19 AM 02/01/2002 -0500, Otterspur@... wrote:
a past master in the art of finding times and places to sleep.
I'm new to this list, although we're in our 9th year of unschooling.
My children are 21, 13, 9, 6 and 2.
My eldest (now 13) was a born night owl. Her wide-awake time in
infancy was 1-3am. She still prefers to be up until 2 or 3am and
then sleep until noon, but she stopped needing company at night
around age 7.
consistently, I get zomboid and short-tempered.
I've had some success with waking my children a little earlier
at a time in an effort to reset their sleep schedules. We usually
do this because we have a morning activity that we need to get
to, but we sometimes do this so my husband (who has to get up
early-ish) can get enough sleep.
The children can handle being awakened 15 minutes earlier than
usual, especially if we take the time to cuddle and wake up slowly.
It does take a week or so to move our sleep schedules back an hour.
When I get to the point where I'm non-functional from lack of
sleep, I ask my husband to take some of the night shifts.
Before I had so many kids, I used to plot to find ways to take naps.
Even 20 minutes can make a world of difference. On weekends, my husband
would cover for me while I napped. On weekdays, I'd set the kids up
with a quiet activity and doze in the bed or in a chair. Sometimes,
we'd read quietly together in bed, and the kids would fall asleep
with me.
I still get in the odd catnap, usually in the rocking chair in
front of the fire. I sit there to breastfeed my 2-year-old, and
before I know it, someone is calling my name and I'm opening
my eyes, yawning.
Everyone in the family deserves to have their needs met, including
you.
I don't know whether asking your husband to take the children away
for the weekend is the best solution for your family. If you start
talking it over, however, you can probably come up with a family
solution that meets everyone's needs.
In appreciation,
Heather Madrone <heather@...> http://www.madrone.com
Homeschooling: http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/homeschool.htm
The Home-Ed List: http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html
You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.
>Perhaps this has not much to do with unschooling per se, except that perhapsIt has been 14 years since I've had a full night's sleep, but I am
>some of you may have faced the same question, so I beg for your experienced
>wisdom.
a past master in the art of finding times and places to sleep.
I'm new to this list, although we're in our 9th year of unschooling.
My children are 21, 13, 9, 6 and 2.
My eldest (now 13) was a born night owl. Her wide-awake time in
infancy was 1-3am. She still prefers to be up until 2 or 3am and
then sleep until noon, but she stopped needing company at night
around age 7.
>One thing that may be important is that my daughter wants to beSo do you need and deserve your sleep. When I don't get enough sleep
>full-on-engaged with someone when she is awake. Thus, she doesn't just play
>happily by herself, but will continue to wake people up to play with her. I
>figured since my husband has to go to work all day and be functional, it
>isn't fair to ask him to be the one to be woken up until 2 or 3 in the
>morning with her. I also don't think it would be fair of me to try waking her
>up with us first thing in the morning in order to try to "make her adjust"
>(as some friends/family have suggested), since she needs and deserves her
>sleep, too.
consistently, I get zomboid and short-tempered.
I've had some success with waking my children a little earlier
at a time in an effort to reset their sleep schedules. We usually
do this because we have a morning activity that we need to get
to, but we sometimes do this so my husband (who has to get up
early-ish) can get enough sleep.
The children can handle being awakened 15 minutes earlier than
usual, especially if we take the time to cuddle and wake up slowly.
It does take a week or so to move our sleep schedules back an hour.
When I get to the point where I'm non-functional from lack of
sleep, I ask my husband to take some of the night shifts.
Before I had so many kids, I used to plot to find ways to take naps.
Even 20 minutes can make a world of difference. On weekends, my husband
would cover for me while I napped. On weekdays, I'd set the kids up
with a quiet activity and doze in the bed or in a chair. Sometimes,
we'd read quietly together in bed, and the kids would fall asleep
with me.
I still get in the odd catnap, usually in the rocking chair in
front of the fire. I sit there to breastfeed my 2-year-old, and
before I know it, someone is calling my name and I'm opening
my eyes, yawning.
>And opinions: is it unreasonable of me to ask my husband to plan some tripIt's not irresponsible or selfish to see that your needs get met.
>with the children some weekend and take them by himself for the sole purpose
>of me getting sleep and cleaning the house? (housecleaning appears to be the
>thing that falls by the wayside when I'm way-tired. My son and husband do
>their own laundry, but they are not big cleaners. I get ooked out when things
>aren't clean -- clutter isn't a problem, dirt is.) Or is that just too
>irresponsible/selfish of me?
Everyone in the family deserves to have their needs met, including
you.
I don't know whether asking your husband to take the children away
for the weekend is the best solution for your family. If you start
talking it over, however, you can probably come up with a family
solution that meets everyone's needs.
In appreciation,
Heather Madrone <heather@...> http://www.madrone.com
Homeschooling: http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/homeschool.htm
The Home-Ed List: http://www.madrone.com/Home-ed/helist.html
You can lead a child to learning, but you can't make her think.
Sharon Rudd
> I'm interested in ideas about how to avoid sleepCan't help you with sleep deprivation. I am
> deprivation (in me).
> And opinions: is it unreasonable of me to ask my
> husband to plan some trip
> with the children some weekend and take them by
> himself for the sole purpose
> of me getting sleep and cleaning the house?
> Peace,
> Wynn
> suddenly thinking of organizing a band named "Nekkid
> Stone Hooters" (after
> all, there's Barenaked Ladies, Stone Temple Pilots
> and the Hooters, why not
> just combine 'em?)
>
chronically there.
BUT it is only fair that DH take both children for
lots of the time, and not only on "a weekend" when it
is convenient and he doesn't have something else to
do. And you shouldn't have to allocate the time to
official sleep and produce noticeable housecleaning
results. You have my permission to loll (dunno how to
spell that: lie in) in the tub, eat chocolate, watch a
movie, sort your OWN clothing, look at catalogues, do
info searches on the net, or anything else you want,
including dance, work out, nothing, meditate, talk on
the phone, visit somebody, or write letter, sort
photographs, play music that YOU like, read....or even
go shopping and actually try on something before you
buy it. It's OK. But, if you have to ASK DH for the
time, you may not get it. And NEVER leave your
children with someone who doesn't want to be with
them. Including relatives. You do deserve some time
for yourself. But you might not get it.
When my boys were little I sometimes put a quilt on
the floor.....for me. At least I could lie down, they
usually would cuddle up, too. Guess I was lucky, like
you, I was/am a light sleeper. No little ones running
about without me awake.....
Sharon of the Swamp May I join the band? but I don't
don't like the term "hooters" How about just "Stone
Nekkid ?
__________________________________________________
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Tia Leschke
Hi Heather. Good to see you here.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island
>I'm new to this list, although we're in our 9th year of unschooling.Has it really been TWO years already? The years just fly by lately.
>My children are 21, 13, 9, 6 and 2.
Tia
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.
Eleanor Roosevelt
*********************************************
Tia Leschke
leschke@...
On Vancouver Island