Re: Let's Ride
J Geller
>Then she told me that all the stuff that Nate was picking up and throwing and all the stuff he was picking up and throwing him out could b prevented and I needed to be more strict with him. So I asked hr what this lookd like and she basicly said following him around and telling him no or swatting him. I told her a long time ago out of desperation I tried this for over a month , There was no improvement in his behavior and I was hitting my child and needed to be put in jail. I also explained that the girls already loose a lot of attention from be because Im caring for Nate and that I choose to tolerate a house far messier than Id like in order to try to make my children feel wanted and loved instead of pushed aside all the time. She didnt have much to say to this.I got to unschooling and attentive parenting from Ross Greene's "The Explosive Child". He spends the whole first part of the book talking about how kids want to be "good" and want to be happy and well-behaved/in control of themselves and that punishment, violence and anger don't help them get to where they want to be. He gives lots of examples and the book can really help people to see that there is a better way. And then he walks through a step by step approach to a better way. Most parents can come to peaceful/attentive/radical unschooling parenting by being peaceful/attentive etc. But, this book can be really useful for kids who need more patience on the part of the caregiver. http://www.explosivechild.com/books/excerpt.html The book is aimed at mainstream parents and therapists and uses that language. It is also aimed at kids who are extreme in their reactions to frustration. It is good at reframing from a really mainstream, clinical perspective to many of the principals of attentive parenting/radical unschooling. Or at least it is what shifted my way of thinking.
>I just dont know how to talk to her.
>Nicole
http://www.explosivechild.com/
It does the mainstream thing of labeling the child, which I don't like but if you think about it, we all have our times when we fit the label. So I think of it as a label of the behavior, rather than the child. It is also really helpful for toddlers and teens when they go through stages of change and have less frustration tolerance. He is a well-respected Harvard Psychologist so instead of doing "flaky, liberal" parenting (what my family calls it) I am doing a "clinically proven method". I don't mention that, aside from reading that book, I get all my ideas, support and advice from peaceful/attention/radical unschooling parents.
You know your mother and if this approach might help her. It was just what I needed and works well with most of my extended family. It doesn't work with my mother because she is just not interested in dealing with my kids. She loves emails that only include accomplishments and brief visits with kids at their best behavior (which can get really brief sometimes) but that is what works for her. It sounds like your mother wants to try and help, but doesn't know how and gets defensive because it is different from what she is used to. The book might help that.
Jae
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Nicole Willoughby
Thanks for the book suggestion. I think Im going to read it for myself but I doubt Id get her to read a whole book.
What I did do yesterday .......
First I grabbed 4 different evaluations Nate has had all saying that he is mentaly on a 12-18 month level. I dont like the labels either but in this case I thought it would be useful.
I think it helped change her view a little.
Then throught the day I explained little situations as they came up. Like Alyssa loves those yo baby yogurts. She was in her room playing on the gamcube and my mom had walked in behind me. Alyssa points to a stoll in front of her and says put it there. My mom in that disapproving tone says put it there ....please?
We left the room and I told my mom that to me right then and there please was the most unimportant thing in the world. Alyssa just had her tonsils removed , her throat hurts and she dosent want to talk much. So which is more important? Knowing that mom loves her or that saying please is more important to me than how she feels.
Nate grabbed a coke bottle that was sitting in the sink to be rinsed for recycling and started throwing it . Courtney was taking to me at the time and I ignored the bottle throwing. My mom starts yelling young man get back here! as he goes running into the living room . That one I got a bit mad and said look! Im trying to hear Courtney. I have to leave abruptly in the middle of conversations on a rgular basis beecause he has gotten a hold of soap, pancake syrup, etc and is pouring it out on the floor. Its just an empty plastic bottle that makes a cool noise when you throw it on the ground!
Sigh mayb shell change her view and actions towards my kids. Maybe shell stop coming to visit.
Nicole
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What I did do yesterday .......
First I grabbed 4 different evaluations Nate has had all saying that he is mentaly on a 12-18 month level. I dont like the labels either but in this case I thought it would be useful.
I think it helped change her view a little.
Then throught the day I explained little situations as they came up. Like Alyssa loves those yo baby yogurts. She was in her room playing on the gamcube and my mom had walked in behind me. Alyssa points to a stoll in front of her and says put it there. My mom in that disapproving tone says put it there ....please?
We left the room and I told my mom that to me right then and there please was the most unimportant thing in the world. Alyssa just had her tonsils removed , her throat hurts and she dosent want to talk much. So which is more important? Knowing that mom loves her or that saying please is more important to me than how she feels.
Nate grabbed a coke bottle that was sitting in the sink to be rinsed for recycling and started throwing it . Courtney was taking to me at the time and I ignored the bottle throwing. My mom starts yelling young man get back here! as he goes running into the living room . That one I got a bit mad and said look! Im trying to hear Courtney. I have to leave abruptly in the middle of conversations on a rgular basis beecause he has gotten a hold of soap, pancake syrup, etc and is pouring it out on the floor. Its just an empty plastic bottle that makes a cool noise when you throw it on the ground!
Sigh mayb shell change her view and actions towards my kids. Maybe shell stop coming to visit.
Nicole
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Pamela Sorooshian
Nicole -
How about telling her to just STOP acting like their mother and start
acting like a good grandmother. She shouldn't be EVER correcting them.
They don't need two mothers. Her job is to "spoil" them (using that
word because she might be more likely to get it). Grandmothers and
grandkids can have such a special relationship - tell her you want her
to play the role of the one person in the world they will always know
loved them absolutely exactly as they are. What a gift! She has it in
her power to give that to them and all she has to do is completely
overlook all behavior she thinks is problematic and smile at them, hug
them, give them little things whenever she has the chance, and
generally act approving.
They will grow up adoring her. When she's gone, they'll tell their OWN
children how sweet and loving their grandmother was and how much they
loved her.
Or she can be a nag and they'll stay away from her when they're old
enough to avoid her.
-pam
How about telling her to just STOP acting like their mother and start
acting like a good grandmother. She shouldn't be EVER correcting them.
They don't need two mothers. Her job is to "spoil" them (using that
word because she might be more likely to get it). Grandmothers and
grandkids can have such a special relationship - tell her you want her
to play the role of the one person in the world they will always know
loved them absolutely exactly as they are. What a gift! She has it in
her power to give that to them and all she has to do is completely
overlook all behavior she thinks is problematic and smile at them, hug
them, give them little things whenever she has the chance, and
generally act approving.
They will grow up adoring her. When she's gone, they'll tell their OWN
children how sweet and loving their grandmother was and how much they
loved her.
Or she can be a nag and they'll stay away from her when they're old
enough to avoid her.
-pam
On Jul 13, 2008, at 7:32 AM, Nicole Willoughby wrote:
> My mom starts yelling young man get back here! as he goes running
> into the living room
Nicole Willoughby
How about telling her to just STOP acting like their mother and start
acting like a good grandmother. She shouldn't be EVER correcting them.
They don't need two mothers. Her job is to "spoil" them (using that
word because she might be more likely to get it).>>>>>>>>
Weve had this discussion many times in different settings. We sorta had it again today by e-mail. She reply? was to e-mail me back saying she had fun with the kids and instructing *me* not to let her ride her bike wearing the i-pod that *I* purchased for her.
loved her.
Or she can be a nag and they'll stay away from her when they're old
enough to avoid her. >>>>>>
Sadly I see the avoiding happening already. Im ready to give up ......but giving up would mean keeping my mouth shut and not trying at all ......which Im afraid would be bad for my kids .
Nicole
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acting like a good grandmother. She shouldn't be EVER correcting them.
They don't need two mothers. Her job is to "spoil" them (using that
word because she might be more likely to get it).>>>>>>>>
Weve had this discussion many times in different settings. We sorta had it again today by e-mail. She reply? was to e-mail me back saying she had fun with the kids and instructing *me* not to let her ride her bike wearing the i-pod that *I* purchased for her.
>>They will grow up adoring her. When she's gone, they'll tell their OWNchildren how sweet and loving their grandmother was and how much they
loved her.
Or she can be a nag and they'll stay away from her when they're old
enough to avoid her. >>>>>>
Sadly I see the avoiding happening already. Im ready to give up ......but giving up would mean keeping my mouth shut and not trying at all ......which Im afraid would be bad for my kids .
Nicole
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k
>.
> Sadly I see the avoiding happening already. Im ready to give up ......but
> giving up would mean keeping my mouth shut and not trying at all ......which
> Im afraid would be bad for my kids
>
>In what way? I think actions speak louder than words in hard cases like
this appears to be. Thankfully your mom doesn't live with you. You're not
obliged to put the kids (who appear to be making their wishes known by
distancing themselves) in her presence. Ever. I don't think either you or
she realizes that. Having the company of loved ones who live other than in
your own home is a privilege, one that should be happy and glad .... not a
dreaded obligation for you. You choose whether or not to provide her with
access to your children. It's not up to her. If pleasing your mom is not
helping you, then don't do it. If you feel that you can't do that for some
reason, keep your mind open and find solutions for whatever feels to you
like a need only she can provide. It would be very sad for your kids to
think that neither you nor they have any choice in the matter.
~Katherine
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Sandra Dodd
-=Sadly I see the avoiding happening already. Im ready to give
up ......but giving up would mean keeping my mouth shut and not
trying at all ......which Im afraid would be bad for my kids . -=-
You could write back and say "You're ignoring me, mom."
But if you give up for a few months and then try again, that's not
giving up forever.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Sandra
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up ......but giving up would mean keeping my mouth shut and not
trying at all ......which Im afraid would be bad for my kids . -=-
You could write back and say "You're ignoring me, mom."
But if you give up for a few months and then try again, that's not
giving up forever.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
Sandra
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Nicole Willoughby
If pleasing your mom is not
helping you, then don't do it. If you feel that you can't do that for some
reason, keep your mind open and find solutions for whatever feels to you
like a need only she can provide. >>>>>>>>>>
Ive read your e-mail a couple times a long with Sandra's and thought and thought some more. I also thought about the way my mom was raised and how I was raised.
My mom had 2 brothers 13 and 10 years older than her. Her mom died when she was five and she was basicly raised in a strict christian family by 3 males. In short she was basicly taught to obey without question and I think got somewhat brainwashed by it. Dad said you have to at least have toast and oj for breakfast she sat down and ate hungry or not.
I was an only child ( I say was because i now have a beautiful 4 year old sister adopted by my dad and step mom :) ) and for as long as i can remember mom was gone from 6 in the am till 6-7 at night.
I dont fault my mom for working so much. My dad had several periods of unemployment and we needed food. What I am trying to get at though is that I think she has had very little opportunity to just kick back and hang out with kids .
So........she is coming back down Tuesday for Nates surgery. I cant take the girls with me , dh cant take anymore time off work right now and even though its not my ideal situation I desperatly need the help. Also being able to use her car ....which has ac and isnt about to leave me stuck on the side of the road....to make the 2 hour drive to ft worth is really nice.
So Im going to have the house as clean as possible without killing myself over it. Im going to make sure there is an abundant supply of paper plates and easy to grab snacks. Then Im going to leave a list of suggestions..........things to do that I know the girls enjoy and hopefully a few that shell enjoy too.......and exactly where to find the necessary materials. Also a few reminders such as my kidsare grazers and almost never eat an actual meal . They help themselves to what they want and they'll let you know if they need help getting something.
Maybe Im being overly optimistic and Ill learn that having her over as little as possible ...maybe never is best. Im hoping that shell enjoy her day and see the kids enjoy being with her .
Nicole
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helping you, then don't do it. If you feel that you can't do that for some
reason, keep your mind open and find solutions for whatever feels to you
like a need only she can provide. >>>>>>>>>>
Ive read your e-mail a couple times a long with Sandra's and thought and thought some more. I also thought about the way my mom was raised and how I was raised.
My mom had 2 brothers 13 and 10 years older than her. Her mom died when she was five and she was basicly raised in a strict christian family by 3 males. In short she was basicly taught to obey without question and I think got somewhat brainwashed by it. Dad said you have to at least have toast and oj for breakfast she sat down and ate hungry or not.
I was an only child ( I say was because i now have a beautiful 4 year old sister adopted by my dad and step mom :) ) and for as long as i can remember mom was gone from 6 in the am till 6-7 at night.
I dont fault my mom for working so much. My dad had several periods of unemployment and we needed food. What I am trying to get at though is that I think she has had very little opportunity to just kick back and hang out with kids .
So........she is coming back down Tuesday for Nates surgery. I cant take the girls with me , dh cant take anymore time off work right now and even though its not my ideal situation I desperatly need the help. Also being able to use her car ....which has ac and isnt about to leave me stuck on the side of the road....to make the 2 hour drive to ft worth is really nice.
So Im going to have the house as clean as possible without killing myself over it. Im going to make sure there is an abundant supply of paper plates and easy to grab snacks. Then Im going to leave a list of suggestions..........things to do that I know the girls enjoy and hopefully a few that shell enjoy too.......and exactly where to find the necessary materials. Also a few reminders such as my kidsare grazers and almost never eat an actual meal . They help themselves to what they want and they'll let you know if they need help getting something.
Maybe Im being overly optimistic and Ill learn that having her over as little as possible ...maybe never is best. Im hoping that shell enjoy her day and see the kids enjoy being with her .
Nicole
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diana jenner
On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Nicole Willoughby <
cncnawilloughby@...> wrote:
is to implore them to *PLAY* with my kids, that in this high stress time
especially, they're in need of full distraction from anything stressful or
uncomfortable. They really *need* to just do things they enjoy and will
remember happily. Use this medical situation to your advantage! I'd hope it
wasn't true, but I've an inkling it is, that folks found it easier to comply
with my wishes because we had a medical issue at hand. (then when the
medical acuity had passed, the habit of fun had formed!)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
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cncnawilloughby@...> wrote:
> Maybe Im being overly optimistic and Ill learn that having her over asOne way that I found to pave the way for caregivers (especially relatives)
> little as possible ...maybe never is best. Im hoping that shell enjoy her
> day and see the kids enjoy being with her .
> .
>
>
is to implore them to *PLAY* with my kids, that in this high stress time
especially, they're in need of full distraction from anything stressful or
uncomfortable. They really *need* to just do things they enjoy and will
remember happily. Use this medical situation to your advantage! I'd hope it
wasn't true, but I've an inkling it is, that folks found it easier to comply
with my wishes because we had a medical issue at hand. (then when the
medical acuity had passed, the habit of fun had formed!)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
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Sandra Dodd
-=-Im hoping that shell enjoy her day and see the kids enjoy being
with her .-=-
Maybe you could give the kids suggestions of things to do or say
too. Prepare them for what you're afraid of, and empower them to
stick up for themselves in your absence. Or just remind them that
it's temporary and if they do what she says without question, like a
game, it will be over before long.
And really, seeing how some parents can be might make them appreciate
that you're not that way more than they could if they had never
experienced it.
Sandra
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with her .-=-
Maybe you could give the kids suggestions of things to do or say
too. Prepare them for what you're afraid of, and empower them to
stick up for themselves in your absence. Or just remind them that
it's temporary and if they do what she says without question, like a
game, it will be over before long.
And really, seeing how some parents can be might make them appreciate
that you're not that way more than they could if they had never
experienced it.
Sandra
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J Geller
So........she is coming back down Tuesday for Nates surgery. I cant take the girls with me , dh cant take anymore time off work right now and even though its not my ideal situation I desperatly need the help. Also being able to use her car ....which has ac and isnt about to leave me stuck on the side of the road....to make the 2 hour drive to ft worth is really nice.
Maybe Im being overly optimistic and Ill learn that having her over as little as possible ...maybe never is best. Im hoping that shell enjoy her day and see the kids enjoy being with her .
------------------------------------------
If you want her to enjoy her stay and she wants to help you in an emergency, you both have different expectations. It might be easier to assume that she is doing this to be helpful, not because she wants to spend time with your kids. That way you have different expectations. Instead of resenting that she doesn't want to have a good relationship with your kids, you can be grateful for the help and support that she does provide. She will feel your gratitude, rather than your frustration and it will make her happier. She still may not have a "good" relationship with your kids but she will have a good relationship with you.
Or she may only feel comfortable with the kids in certain situations or only when you are there. Or she may just not be able to deal with your kids and may rather help in ways that don't involve her taking care of them. Or she could be very judgmental and it may be that it is easier to stay in touch at a distance and not have her interact with your kids.
But it is worth trying to see where she is coming from and if she wants to try and make a relationship. You can't do it on your own, she has to want to try. My mother makes nasty, snarky comments about me and my children and resents having to spend time with them (my father expects her to). She won't admit that she has no interest but once I stopped having her interact with my kids and started keeping in touch with her by email, our relationship became very peaceful and cordial. When she does see them, it is rarely and briefly and I don't expect anything of her, so she can be polite.
Jae
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Maybe Im being overly optimistic and Ill learn that having her over as little as possible ...maybe never is best. Im hoping that shell enjoy her day and see the kids enjoy being with her .
------------------------------------------
If you want her to enjoy her stay and she wants to help you in an emergency, you both have different expectations. It might be easier to assume that she is doing this to be helpful, not because she wants to spend time with your kids. That way you have different expectations. Instead of resenting that she doesn't want to have a good relationship with your kids, you can be grateful for the help and support that she does provide. She will feel your gratitude, rather than your frustration and it will make her happier. She still may not have a "good" relationship with your kids but she will have a good relationship with you.
Or she may only feel comfortable with the kids in certain situations or only when you are there. Or she may just not be able to deal with your kids and may rather help in ways that don't involve her taking care of them. Or she could be very judgmental and it may be that it is easier to stay in touch at a distance and not have her interact with your kids.
But it is worth trying to see where she is coming from and if she wants to try and make a relationship. You can't do it on your own, she has to want to try. My mother makes nasty, snarky comments about me and my children and resents having to spend time with them (my father expects her to). She won't admit that she has no interest but once I stopped having her interact with my kids and started keeping in touch with her by email, our relationship became very peaceful and cordial. When she does see them, it is rarely and briefly and I don't expect anything of her, so she can be polite.
Jae
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