Choices & power was Subway
Crystal Miller
<<My kids' lives are So far from that it's hard to imagine how it must feel
(compared to me as a younger kid).>>
Yea. When Sorscha and I go to Starbucks or whatever, she'll say, "Get me my
usual." We also hang out with mostly radically unschooled kids. If they
are with us, they'll just chime up with their choices also. It's
cool~~~It's normal.
We had guest over a few weeks ago - A traditional, religious, school family.
It was weird because I forgot how many rules some kiddos have. Here are a
few:
No you can't go on the trampoline because there is no net - NO not even if
only one goes at a time OR I stand and watch.
No you can't have soda or ice cream (we have a kid cabana where ice creams,
soda's, and waters are there for the kids' takings).
No you can't run in the water on the lawn while it's being irrigating.
No you can't have another piece of cake.
No you can't throw a soda bomb (the kids are each allowed to throw one soda
bomb when they're here).
No you can't ride the scooter or the bike because you don't have your helmet
(we have a long driveway and the yard is completely fenced. No downhill or
anything).
During the BBQ I had asked the kids to next time try and go in one of the
back doors because there were old rugs to catch the mud and dirt there
(instead of it going directly onto the wood floor at the front door).
Sorscha was already in the front door and said, "Okay." The other two kids
stopped and then walked completely around the house to go in the other door.
The mom said, "Well at least MY kids listen." I remember thinking to myself
that it so odd to see someone go completely around the house when they were
already walking in a door. Just odd, kind of like a programmed robot.
So later I was cleaning up and I found something interesting. We just had
our home restuccod so it's all bright and happy cream. I found mud balls
thrown at the house and all our little plant plaques dug up from the garden.
I smiled to myself thinking, "Hmmm, those little robots are not as
programmed as one thinks they are. It's kind of like one of those movies
where the robots find out they have power & choices and eventually, well,
you know." <g>
~Crystal~
(compared to me as a younger kid).>>
Yea. When Sorscha and I go to Starbucks or whatever, she'll say, "Get me my
usual." We also hang out with mostly radically unschooled kids. If they
are with us, they'll just chime up with their choices also. It's
cool~~~It's normal.
We had guest over a few weeks ago - A traditional, religious, school family.
It was weird because I forgot how many rules some kiddos have. Here are a
few:
No you can't go on the trampoline because there is no net - NO not even if
only one goes at a time OR I stand and watch.
No you can't have soda or ice cream (we have a kid cabana where ice creams,
soda's, and waters are there for the kids' takings).
No you can't run in the water on the lawn while it's being irrigating.
No you can't have another piece of cake.
No you can't throw a soda bomb (the kids are each allowed to throw one soda
bomb when they're here).
No you can't ride the scooter or the bike because you don't have your helmet
(we have a long driveway and the yard is completely fenced. No downhill or
anything).
During the BBQ I had asked the kids to next time try and go in one of the
back doors because there were old rugs to catch the mud and dirt there
(instead of it going directly onto the wood floor at the front door).
Sorscha was already in the front door and said, "Okay." The other two kids
stopped and then walked completely around the house to go in the other door.
The mom said, "Well at least MY kids listen." I remember thinking to myself
that it so odd to see someone go completely around the house when they were
already walking in a door. Just odd, kind of like a programmed robot.
So later I was cleaning up and I found something interesting. We just had
our home restuccod so it's all bright and happy cream. I found mud balls
thrown at the house and all our little plant plaques dug up from the garden.
I smiled to myself thinking, "Hmmm, those little robots are not as
programmed as one thinks they are. It's kind of like one of those movies
where the robots find out they have power & choices and eventually, well,
you know." <g>
~Crystal~
Sandra Dodd
This is long and starts with a quote and it won't hurt my feelings if
people skip it all.
-=-No you can't go on the trampoline because there is no net - NO not
even if
only one goes at a time OR I stand and watch.
No you can't have soda or ice cream (we have a kid cabana where ice
creams,
soda's, and waters are there for the kids' takings).
No you can't run in the water on the lawn while it's being irrigating.
No you can't have another piece of cake.
No you can't throw a soda bomb (the kids are each allowed to throw
one soda
bomb when they're here).
No you can't ride the scooter or the bike because you don't have your
helmet
(we have a long driveway and the yard is completely fenced. No
downhill or
anything).-=-
That whole list made me sad.
We had religious homeschoolers staying with us for several days one
winter a dozen and some years ago. The mom and I were both in the
SCA (well both whole families were) and she was my student (Laurel
apprentice, for those who know the structure and the lingo), though
they lived in another kingdom.
I kept hoping she would understand that the same way she was learning
all kinds of arts, and doing all kinds of research for fun, that her
kids could learn in that same way. But she had a full-on double
standard, and was very (very) controlling.
I could write a long list of stunning things as evidence of the
problems with what they were doing, but I will tell this one story,
which was triggered by the report of the mom having said "Well at
least MY kids listen."
The kids had crayons and our box of coloring books, which included
books of mazes and puzzles, and little-kid workbooks.
Holly came and asked me to read the directions to her, on some
matching page. I said something like "Draw a red line from
[whatever to whatever]," or whatever it was---red X, or circle with
red. She asked me if it needed to be red, and I said no, it didn't
even need to be a circle (I wish I could remember the quote; sorry).
She and one of the other family's little girls ran off happily to
work that page.
When they were a little ways away (at least it wasn't right in front
of Holly), the mom said snootily something like "We expect our
children to learn to follow the directions."
So for me, if Holly wanted to do the counting or sound-matching or
WHATever was the theme of that workbook page, that was fine, and if
she did it wrong, that was fine. For the other family, if a workbook
said to use red, THAT was the important thing. To follow the
directions.
This was not a good SCA match for my beliefs about learning and doing
and being.
That couple ended up divorced, the kids dividing their time, the
parents bitter and mean, the mom living with a man, posing
suggestively on a motorcycle on a webpage... It's been a long
time. I've lost touch with them. Their certain knowledge that they
were doing things the only right way, God's way, and that it would
guarantee a good outcome for their daughters was shot to hell.
Meanwhile, our kids grew up in an intact family, more concerned about
being thoughtful and resourceful than in using the right color in a
cartoony workbook.
Today is Keith's birthday. He is "thirty and a Kirby." Kirby will
be 22 on the 29th, so Keith is 52. Keith was 20 when I met him, 21
when we were first involved. We have been told Kirby would grow up
wild and awful. He did not. We've been told our kids would never
get jobs. They've all had jobs and their employers gush about them.
Holly will be housesitting next weekend, for friends who have in the
past hired Kirby or Marty to housesit, but neither of them is going
to be in town, so Holly inherits the job. Probably her boyfriend
Brett will be over there with her. Many parents would criticize us
for that, but screw 'em. She'll be safer with Brett there, and less
bored, and if there are any problems with the three dogs, or the
neighbors, or the guy who has come to steal guns there twice (the
guns are all very locked up now, but still...), I'd really rather
Holly not be there alone.
Holly will leave the house cleaner than she found it, the dogs will
have fun, she'll have her computer there, and will watch their DVDs
on the big TV and water their bushes and probably call me two or
three times a day. She can come home in the daytime, as long as
she's there from 6:00 to feed dogs and keep lights and noise in the
house at night.
Yes, of course, not many sixteen year olds could be trusted with a
situation like that, but my kids have nothing to be sneaky about, and
are not destructive and they are thoughtful and careful and
responsible. That's not accident or coincidence. It's because each
of them (at 16) had had sixteen years of exploration of the world
without a bunch of rules and punishments and restrictions and limits
and shame. They've heard yes a lot more than they've heard no, and
so they are full of "yes" and "Yes, I can do that." They are
confident and generous.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
people skip it all.
-=-No you can't go on the trampoline because there is no net - NO not
even if
only one goes at a time OR I stand and watch.
No you can't have soda or ice cream (we have a kid cabana where ice
creams,
soda's, and waters are there for the kids' takings).
No you can't run in the water on the lawn while it's being irrigating.
No you can't have another piece of cake.
No you can't throw a soda bomb (the kids are each allowed to throw
one soda
bomb when they're here).
No you can't ride the scooter or the bike because you don't have your
helmet
(we have a long driveway and the yard is completely fenced. No
downhill or
anything).-=-
That whole list made me sad.
We had religious homeschoolers staying with us for several days one
winter a dozen and some years ago. The mom and I were both in the
SCA (well both whole families were) and she was my student (Laurel
apprentice, for those who know the structure and the lingo), though
they lived in another kingdom.
I kept hoping she would understand that the same way she was learning
all kinds of arts, and doing all kinds of research for fun, that her
kids could learn in that same way. But she had a full-on double
standard, and was very (very) controlling.
I could write a long list of stunning things as evidence of the
problems with what they were doing, but I will tell this one story,
which was triggered by the report of the mom having said "Well at
least MY kids listen."
The kids had crayons and our box of coloring books, which included
books of mazes and puzzles, and little-kid workbooks.
Holly came and asked me to read the directions to her, on some
matching page. I said something like "Draw a red line from
[whatever to whatever]," or whatever it was---red X, or circle with
red. She asked me if it needed to be red, and I said no, it didn't
even need to be a circle (I wish I could remember the quote; sorry).
She and one of the other family's little girls ran off happily to
work that page.
When they were a little ways away (at least it wasn't right in front
of Holly), the mom said snootily something like "We expect our
children to learn to follow the directions."
So for me, if Holly wanted to do the counting or sound-matching or
WHATever was the theme of that workbook page, that was fine, and if
she did it wrong, that was fine. For the other family, if a workbook
said to use red, THAT was the important thing. To follow the
directions.
This was not a good SCA match for my beliefs about learning and doing
and being.
That couple ended up divorced, the kids dividing their time, the
parents bitter and mean, the mom living with a man, posing
suggestively on a motorcycle on a webpage... It's been a long
time. I've lost touch with them. Their certain knowledge that they
were doing things the only right way, God's way, and that it would
guarantee a good outcome for their daughters was shot to hell.
Meanwhile, our kids grew up in an intact family, more concerned about
being thoughtful and resourceful than in using the right color in a
cartoony workbook.
Today is Keith's birthday. He is "thirty and a Kirby." Kirby will
be 22 on the 29th, so Keith is 52. Keith was 20 when I met him, 21
when we were first involved. We have been told Kirby would grow up
wild and awful. He did not. We've been told our kids would never
get jobs. They've all had jobs and their employers gush about them.
Holly will be housesitting next weekend, for friends who have in the
past hired Kirby or Marty to housesit, but neither of them is going
to be in town, so Holly inherits the job. Probably her boyfriend
Brett will be over there with her. Many parents would criticize us
for that, but screw 'em. She'll be safer with Brett there, and less
bored, and if there are any problems with the three dogs, or the
neighbors, or the guy who has come to steal guns there twice (the
guns are all very locked up now, but still...), I'd really rather
Holly not be there alone.
Holly will leave the house cleaner than she found it, the dogs will
have fun, she'll have her computer there, and will watch their DVDs
on the big TV and water their bushes and probably call me two or
three times a day. She can come home in the daytime, as long as
she's there from 6:00 to feed dogs and keep lights and noise in the
house at night.
Yes, of course, not many sixteen year olds could be trusted with a
situation like that, but my kids have nothing to be sneaky about, and
are not destructive and they are thoughtful and careful and
responsible. That's not accident or coincidence. It's because each
of them (at 16) had had sixteen years of exploration of the world
without a bunch of rules and punishments and restrictions and limits
and shame. They've heard yes a lot more than they've heard no, and
so they are full of "yes" and "Yes, I can do that." They are
confident and generous.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nicole Willoughby
No you can't go on the trampoline because there is no net - NO not even if
only one goes at a time OR I stand and watch>>>>
Ok sorry these comments are kinda off topic of the original subject but a ton of trampoline injuries are from hitting the net wrong. I cringe when my kids get on a tramp with a net.
and ...I find it soo kewl to run into another Sorsha .....my youngest godchild is Sorcha.:)
Nicole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
only one goes at a time OR I stand and watch>>>>
Ok sorry these comments are kinda off topic of the original subject but a ton of trampoline injuries are from hitting the net wrong. I cringe when my kids get on a tramp with a net.
and ...I find it soo kewl to run into another Sorsha .....my youngest godchild is Sorcha.:)
Nicole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]