Dealing with Grandparents who disagree with unschooling
Jay
This has been an ongoing problem but not a huge issue in the past
because my kids hardly see this particular grandmother (my mother).
She was recently diagnosed with breast cancer (very low grade,
excellent prognosis) and she called to say she was miffed my kids
didn't send her cards or call her.
Mind you my kids have never been close to her at all. When the kids
were younger she'd come over and all she'd want to do was take
pictures and create Hallmark card moments. She'd bear gifts but
then expect my kids to drop everything and play with them the way
she envisioned. She would get ticked that they wanted to do
something else, or play with whatever in a different way, etc. She
always has and still does speak to them in a sing-song-y baby voice
(they're 10 & 14). She can't just BE with them and spend time with
them and talk to them. Consequently my kids have never sought her
out.
I personally don't have (and never have had) a good relationship
with my mother. She has demonstrated time and time again that she
prefers to go out of her way to help other people and not her own
family. Holidays are supposed to be picture-postcard perfect and no
deviations from what she envisions allowed.
I give this background because after she mentioned that my kids
didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them to
because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said that
she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.
This came out of the blue. I was taken aback a bit because she's
never even tried to get to know my kids as people. Why does she
hate unschooling? Because I have deprived her of her rights as a
grandmother because there are no awards to hang on the fridge, no
bragging rights, no soccer games, no graduations or plays or all
that stuff, therefore she can't brag on her grandkids.
Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
the bad relationship with her grandkids. The fact that she never
even tried to just spend time with them and be with them and get to
know them fell on deaf ears.
She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously hasn't
in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
grandmother and grandkids?
Jay
because my kids hardly see this particular grandmother (my mother).
She was recently diagnosed with breast cancer (very low grade,
excellent prognosis) and she called to say she was miffed my kids
didn't send her cards or call her.
Mind you my kids have never been close to her at all. When the kids
were younger she'd come over and all she'd want to do was take
pictures and create Hallmark card moments. She'd bear gifts but
then expect my kids to drop everything and play with them the way
she envisioned. She would get ticked that they wanted to do
something else, or play with whatever in a different way, etc. She
always has and still does speak to them in a sing-song-y baby voice
(they're 10 & 14). She can't just BE with them and spend time with
them and talk to them. Consequently my kids have never sought her
out.
I personally don't have (and never have had) a good relationship
with my mother. She has demonstrated time and time again that she
prefers to go out of her way to help other people and not her own
family. Holidays are supposed to be picture-postcard perfect and no
deviations from what she envisions allowed.
I give this background because after she mentioned that my kids
didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them to
because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said that
she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.
This came out of the blue. I was taken aback a bit because she's
never even tried to get to know my kids as people. Why does she
hate unschooling? Because I have deprived her of her rights as a
grandmother because there are no awards to hang on the fridge, no
bragging rights, no soccer games, no graduations or plays or all
that stuff, therefore she can't brag on her grandkids.
Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
the bad relationship with her grandkids. The fact that she never
even tried to just spend time with them and be with them and get to
know them fell on deaf ears.
She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously hasn't
in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
grandmother and grandkids?
Jay
Arp Laszlo
Jay,
I don't know if it could be possible if your mom is as you've described -
someone who doesn't try to know and just BE her grandchildren. (My mom's
like that too, but without the negativity.) If your kids aren't close to
her now, I doubt that could really change. I have 2 different relationships
with my two grandmas. One is mutual adoration and the other one I tolerate
but generally ignore. The latter was the one who'd tell on me and rat me
out to my parents when I was little, and by the time I was 10, I'd spend
time with her but that *closeness* was not there.
Now your mom's calling out your way of life and probably hasn't considered
at all what her part in the issue is. Granted, it could part of her dealing
with her cancer, but it almost seems like it's made her bolder than she was
prior. What's your motivation to patch things up? Is she the only
grandparent alive?
arp
--
Arp Laszlo
www.unschoold.com/blogs/arp
I don't know if it could be possible if your mom is as you've described -
someone who doesn't try to know and just BE her grandchildren. (My mom's
like that too, but without the negativity.) If your kids aren't close to
her now, I doubt that could really change. I have 2 different relationships
with my two grandmas. One is mutual adoration and the other one I tolerate
but generally ignore. The latter was the one who'd tell on me and rat me
out to my parents when I was little, and by the time I was 10, I'd spend
time with her but that *closeness* was not there.
Now your mom's calling out your way of life and probably hasn't considered
at all what her part in the issue is. Granted, it could part of her dealing
with her cancer, but it almost seems like it's made her bolder than she was
prior. What's your motivation to patch things up? Is she the only
grandparent alive?
arp
--
Arp Laszlo
www.unschoold.com/blogs/arp
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Jay <jay.ford79@...> wrote:
> This has been an ongoing problem but not a huge issue in the past
> because my kids hardly see this particular grandmother (my mother).
> She was recently diagnosed with breast cancer (very low grade,
> excellent prognosis) and she called to say she was miffed my kids
> didn't send her cards or call her.
>
> Mind you my kids have never been close to her at all. When the kids
> were younger she'd come over and all she'd want to do was take
> pictures and create Hallmark card moments. She'd bear gifts but
> then expect my kids to drop everything and play with them the way
> she envisioned. She would get ticked that they wanted to do
> something else, or play with whatever in a different way, etc. She
> always has and still does speak to them in a sing-song-y baby voice
> (they're 10 & 14). She can't just BE with them and spend time with
> them and talk to them. Consequently my kids have never sought her
> out.
>
> I personally don't have (and never have had) a good relationship
> with my mother. She has demonstrated time and time again that she
> prefers to go out of her way to help other people and not her own
> family. Holidays are supposed to be picture-postcard perfect and no
> deviations from what she envisions allowed.
>
> I give this background because after she mentioned that my kids
> didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them to
> because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said that
> she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
> horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.
>
> This came out of the blue. I was taken aback a bit because she's
> never even tried to get to know my kids as people. Why does she
> hate unschooling? Because I have deprived her of her rights as a
> grandmother because there are no awards to hang on the fridge, no
> bragging rights, no soccer games, no graduations or plays or all
> that stuff, therefore she can't brag on her grandkids.
>
> Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
> the bad relationship with her grandkids. The fact that she never
> even tried to just spend time with them and be with them and get to
> know them fell on deaf ears.
>
> She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously hasn't
> in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
> grandmother and grandkids?
>
> Jay
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 5, 2008, at 7:31 PM, Jay wrote:
and grown children seem complex is 1) the parents want their grown
children to change and the children resent it and 2) the grown
children want advice on how to change their parents and don't see the
dichotomy there.
The answer is: detach. You can't change her. She has to change
herself and she has a right not to change if she doesn't want to. Let
go of wanting that. She isn't yours to change any more than you are
hers to change. No matter that you think everyone would be happier if
she changed in the way you want. She probably thinks the same thing.
Keep the door open. Make offers to connect you think are reasonable
and then detach from her answer. Don't expect her to accept. Don't
expect her not to accept. Let her be who she wants to be. If she says
things intended to shame you into changing, let it roll off you. She
only has power over you if you let her.
I know it's easier said than done but it really is as simple as that.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously hasn'tI think one of the reasons difficult relationships between parents
> in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
> grandmother and grandkids?
and grown children seem complex is 1) the parents want their grown
children to change and the children resent it and 2) the grown
children want advice on how to change their parents and don't see the
dichotomy there.
The answer is: detach. You can't change her. She has to change
herself and she has a right not to change if she doesn't want to. Let
go of wanting that. She isn't yours to change any more than you are
hers to change. No matter that you think everyone would be happier if
she changed in the way you want. She probably thinks the same thing.
Keep the door open. Make offers to connect you think are reasonable
and then detach from her answer. Don't expect her to accept. Don't
expect her not to accept. Let her be who she wants to be. If she says
things intended to shame you into changing, let it roll off you. She
only has power over you if you let her.
I know it's easier said than done but it really is as simple as that.
Joyce
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jul 5, 2008, at 4:31 PM, Jay wrote:
example, if one has built a cool lego creation, take a photo of the
kid with the lego creation and label it.
My mom got unschooling and supported it, but she also liked to have
grandchildren "brag" photos - to share with the other grandmas she
hung out with. I used to give her pictures of all kinds of weird
things - a photo of my kid climbing a tree, playing with the dog,
playing a game. I'd label them: "Roxana Climbing Higher and Higher" or
"Rosie - the Animal Lover" or "Monopoly Whiz" or whatever. Something
cute (not brilliant <G>).
I always made sure to give her photos of the kids in any kind of
"formal" activity, too - karate class, guitar lessons, dance lessons,
science museum, whatever.
Inundate them with photos - it is really the best way to give them the
sense that your kids are DOING stuff.
Sometimes things that parents complain about to us are things they
brag about to other grandparents:
Grandmother to mother: "Don't you think he spends too much time on the
computer?"
Grandmother to other grandmas: "You should SEE my granchild - he is a
WHIZ on that computer."
<BEG>
-pam
> She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously hasn'tLots of labeled photographs of the kids doing cool things. For
> in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
> grandmother and grandkids?
example, if one has built a cool lego creation, take a photo of the
kid with the lego creation and label it.
My mom got unschooling and supported it, but she also liked to have
grandchildren "brag" photos - to share with the other grandmas she
hung out with. I used to give her pictures of all kinds of weird
things - a photo of my kid climbing a tree, playing with the dog,
playing a game. I'd label them: "Roxana Climbing Higher and Higher" or
"Rosie - the Animal Lover" or "Monopoly Whiz" or whatever. Something
cute (not brilliant <G>).
I always made sure to give her photos of the kids in any kind of
"formal" activity, too - karate class, guitar lessons, dance lessons,
science museum, whatever.
Inundate them with photos - it is really the best way to give them the
sense that your kids are DOING stuff.
Sometimes things that parents complain about to us are things they
brag about to other grandparents:
Grandmother to mother: "Don't you think he spends too much time on the
computer?"
Grandmother to other grandmas: "You should SEE my granchild - he is a
WHIZ on that computer."
<BEG>
-pam
Jay
I'm not trying to convince my mother that unschooling is great, and I
know she's never going to be a model grandmother. I guess I'm just
wanting my mother to try to get to know my kids as people without the
agenda, and for my kids to know their grandmother. She is the only
grandma left.
Her cancer has a 92% cure rate with radiation and tamoxifen. I guess
I'm also looking for ways to attempt to repair my relationship with
her as well. I've never had a good relationship with her personally
because I march to a different drummer (her words) and I've been
unpredictable in that sense.
It's hard to express what my thoughts are on the page. I'm not
trying to do this out of guilt or obligation, nor am I trying to make
my mom something she's not. I've always believed in people before
things.
Jay
--- In [email protected], "Arp Laszlo" <arphaus@...>
wrote:
know she's never going to be a model grandmother. I guess I'm just
wanting my mother to try to get to know my kids as people without the
agenda, and for my kids to know their grandmother. She is the only
grandma left.
Her cancer has a 92% cure rate with radiation and tamoxifen. I guess
I'm also looking for ways to attempt to repair my relationship with
her as well. I've never had a good relationship with her personally
because I march to a different drummer (her words) and I've been
unpredictable in that sense.
It's hard to express what my thoughts are on the page. I'm not
trying to do this out of guilt or obligation, nor am I trying to make
my mom something she's not. I've always believed in people before
things.
Jay
--- In [email protected], "Arp Laszlo" <arphaus@...>
wrote:
>described -
> Jay,
>
> I don't know if it could be possible if your mom is as you've
> someone who doesn't try to know and just BE her grandchildren. (Mymom's
> like that too, but without the negativity.) If your kids aren'tclose to
> her now, I doubt that could really change. I have 2 differentrelationships
> with my two grandmas. One is mutual adoration and the other one Itolerate
> but generally ignore. The latter was the one who'd tell on me andrat me
> out to my parents when I was little, and by the time I was 10, I'dspend
> time with her but that *closeness* was not there.considered
>
> Now your mom's calling out your way of life and probably hasn't
> at all what her part in the issue is. Granted, it could part ofher dealing
> with her cancer, but it almost seems like it's made her bolder thanshe was
> prior. What's your motivation to patch things up? Is she the onlypast
> grandparent alive?
>
>
> arp
>
>
> --
> Arp Laszlo
> www.unschoold.com/blogs/arp
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Jay <jay.ford79@...> wrote:
>
> > This has been an ongoing problem but not a huge issue in the
> > because my kids hardly see this particular grandmother (mymother).
> > She was recently diagnosed with breast cancer (very low grade,kids
> > excellent prognosis) and she called to say she was miffed my kids
> > didn't send her cards or call her.
> >
> > Mind you my kids have never been close to her at all. When the
> > were younger she'd come over and all she'd want to do was takevoice
> > pictures and create Hallmark card moments. She'd bear gifts but
> > then expect my kids to drop everything and play with them the way
> > she envisioned. She would get ticked that they wanted to do
> > something else, or play with whatever in a different way, etc. She
> > always has and still does speak to them in a sing-song-y baby
> > (they're 10 & 14). She can't just BE with them and spend time withno
> > them and talk to them. Consequently my kids have never sought her
> > out.
> >
> > I personally don't have (and never have had) a good relationship
> > with my mother. She has demonstrated time and time again that she
> > prefers to go out of her way to help other people and not her own
> > family. Holidays are supposed to be picture-postcard perfect and
> > deviations from what she envisions allowed.to
> >
> > I give this background because after she mentioned that my kids
> > didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them
> > because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said thatto
> > she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
> > horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.
> >
> > This came out of the blue. I was taken aback a bit because she's
> > never even tried to get to know my kids as people. Why does she
> > hate unschooling? Because I have deprived her of her rights as a
> > grandmother because there are no awards to hang on the fridge, no
> > bragging rights, no soccer games, no graduations or plays or all
> > that stuff, therefore she can't brag on her grandkids.
> >
> > Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
> > the bad relationship with her grandkids. The fact that she never
> > even tried to just spend time with them and be with them and get
> > know them fell on deaf ears.hasn't
> >
> > She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously
> > in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
> > grandmother and grandkids?
> >
> > Jay
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Arp Laszlo
I give you credit for trying - in a similar situation, I would have a hard
time making a go of it. Perhaps it would best to start off with your
relationship with her and see how it progresses. I bet you would be a lot
more comfortable about trying to bring her closer with your children if you
could repair your relationship first. Either way it's tough - especially if
she's not willing to understand or accept another point of view.
arp
--
Arp Laszlo
www.unschoold.com/blogs/arp
time making a go of it. Perhaps it would best to start off with your
relationship with her and see how it progresses. I bet you would be a lot
more comfortable about trying to bring her closer with your children if you
could repair your relationship first. Either way it's tough - especially if
she's not willing to understand or accept another point of view.
arp
--
Arp Laszlo
www.unschoold.com/blogs/arp
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 8:34 PM, Jay <jay.ford79@...> wrote:
> I'm not trying to convince my mother that unschooling is great, and I
> know she's never going to be a model grandmother. I guess I'm just
> wanting my mother to try to get to know my kids as people without the
> agenda, and for my kids to know their grandmother. She is the only
> grandma left.
>
> Her cancer has a 92% cure rate with radiation and tamoxifen. I guess
> I'm also looking for ways to attempt to repair my relationship with
> her as well. I've never had a good relationship with her personally
> because I march to a different drummer (her words) and I've been
> unpredictable in that sense.
>
> It's hard to express what my thoughts are on the page. I'm not
> trying to do this out of guilt or obligation, nor am I trying to make
> my mom something she's not. I've always believed in people before
> things.
>
> Jay
>
> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Arp Laszlo" <arphaus@...>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Jay,
> >
> > I don't know if it could be possible if your mom is as you've
> described -
> > someone who doesn't try to know and just BE her grandchildren. (My
> mom's
> > like that too, but without the negativity.) If your kids aren't
> close to
> > her now, I doubt that could really change. I have 2 different
> relationships
> > with my two grandmas. One is mutual adoration and the other one I
> tolerate
> > but generally ignore. The latter was the one who'd tell on me and
> rat me
> > out to my parents when I was little, and by the time I was 10, I'd
> spend
> > time with her but that *closeness* was not there.
> >
> > Now your mom's calling out your way of life and probably hasn't
> considered
> > at all what her part in the issue is. Granted, it could part of
> her dealing
> > with her cancer, but it almost seems like it's made her bolder than
> she was
> > prior. What's your motivation to patch things up? Is she the only
> > grandparent alive?
> >
> >
> > arp
> >
> >
> > --
> > Arp Laszlo
> > www.unschoold.com/blogs/arp
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 7:31 PM, Jay <jay.ford79@...> wrote:
> >
> > > This has been an ongoing problem but not a huge issue in the
> past
> > > because my kids hardly see this particular grandmother (my
> mother).
> > > She was recently diagnosed with breast cancer (very low grade,
> > > excellent prognosis) and she called to say she was miffed my kids
> > > didn't send her cards or call her.
> > >
> > > Mind you my kids have never been close to her at all. When the
> kids
> > > were younger she'd come over and all she'd want to do was take
> > > pictures and create Hallmark card moments. She'd bear gifts but
> > > then expect my kids to drop everything and play with them the way
> > > she envisioned. She would get ticked that they wanted to do
> > > something else, or play with whatever in a different way, etc. She
> > > always has and still does speak to them in a sing-song-y baby
> voice
> > > (they're 10 & 14). She can't just BE with them and spend time with
> > > them and talk to them. Consequently my kids have never sought her
> > > out.
> > >
> > > I personally don't have (and never have had) a good relationship
> > > with my mother. She has demonstrated time and time again that she
> > > prefers to go out of her way to help other people and not her own
> > > family. Holidays are supposed to be picture-postcard perfect and
> no
> > > deviations from what she envisions allowed.
> > >
> > > I give this background because after she mentioned that my kids
> > > didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them
> to
> > > because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said that
> > > she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
> > > horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.
> > >
> > > This came out of the blue. I was taken aback a bit because she's
> > > never even tried to get to know my kids as people. Why does she
> > > hate unschooling? Because I have deprived her of her rights as a
> > > grandmother because there are no awards to hang on the fridge, no
> > > bragging rights, no soccer games, no graduations or plays or all
> > > that stuff, therefore she can't brag on her grandkids.
> > >
> > > Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
> > > the bad relationship with her grandkids. The fact that she never
> > > even tried to just spend time with them and be with them and get
> to
> > > know them fell on deaf ears.
> > >
> > > She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously
> hasn't
> > > in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
> > > grandmother and grandkids?
> > >
> > > Jay
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
--
Arp Laszlo
www.echoleaf.com | easy websites for busy people
AIM/iCHat: echoleaf
hello@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jul 5, 2008, at 5:34 PM, Jay wrote:
gives her a window into your real world and gives her something to
talk to the kids about. You can't "make" them (her and the kids) have
a better relationship, but you can set the stage so that it is easier
for them.
Also, if she's willing to buy them gifts, that's nice and maybe she'd
take your advice about things they really want so that they WILL be
appreciative and show it.
Another bit of useful advice - set it up so that they are not expected
to just "visit." For example, invite her to go with you when you're
going to a play or musical together - or a movie. Watching something
together is really valuable because it provides a point of commonality
and is a source of something to talk about. If your kids like museums
- science, art, natural history - those can be fun to do with
grandparents.
My sister, grandma to two boys, makes sure she and her dh do lots of
things with the boys so that they have lots of experiences together.
Otherwise, grandparents can sort of seem like they're interviewing or
questioning, even when they are really trying to find some way to have
a conversation. My sister and her dh took the grandkids to a mud park
last weekend - it is a place where the park department has created a
huge mudslide and a big lake of mud that they can raft on and a rope
swing and all kinds of fun stuff. My sister and her dh just wandered
around behind the boys and watched them have a blast - but you can
imagine that the boys think grandma and grandpa are really awesome to
take them there. The boys are 9 and 7, I think. They also take them to
lots of community theater shows for kids - Wizard of Oz and stuff like
that.
-pam
> I'm not trying to convince my mother that unschooling is great, and IAgain - I really think one thing you can do is give her photos. This
> know she's never going to be a model grandmother. I guess I'm just
> wanting my mother to try to get to know my kids as people without the
> agenda, and for my kids to know their grandmother. She is the only
> grandma left.
gives her a window into your real world and gives her something to
talk to the kids about. You can't "make" them (her and the kids) have
a better relationship, but you can set the stage so that it is easier
for them.
Also, if she's willing to buy them gifts, that's nice and maybe she'd
take your advice about things they really want so that they WILL be
appreciative and show it.
Another bit of useful advice - set it up so that they are not expected
to just "visit." For example, invite her to go with you when you're
going to a play or musical together - or a movie. Watching something
together is really valuable because it provides a point of commonality
and is a source of something to talk about. If your kids like museums
- science, art, natural history - those can be fun to do with
grandparents.
My sister, grandma to two boys, makes sure she and her dh do lots of
things with the boys so that they have lots of experiences together.
Otherwise, grandparents can sort of seem like they're interviewing or
questioning, even when they are really trying to find some way to have
a conversation. My sister and her dh took the grandkids to a mud park
last weekend - it is a place where the park department has created a
huge mudslide and a big lake of mud that they can raft on and a rope
swing and all kinds of fun stuff. My sister and her dh just wandered
around behind the boys and watched them have a blast - but you can
imagine that the boys think grandma and grandpa are really awesome to
take them there. The boys are 9 and 7, I think. They also take them to
lots of community theater shows for kids - Wizard of Oz and stuff like
that.
-pam
Sandra Dodd
-=-I give this background because after she mentioned that my kids
didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them to
because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said that
she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.-=-
Maybe you could ask her to put that in writing, so her grandchildren
will have something to remember her by.
It's not the nicest thing to say, but it might make her consider what
she's saying and how ridiculous it would be for her to put that in
writing... "You should have made the kids write me cards, and
unschooling is horrible and they'll pay for it later."
-=-Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
the bad relationship with her grandkids. -=-
Well then you've given her a gift! She doesn't have to begin to
consider that any of it might be laid at her own feet.
-=-Any way to repair the relationship between grandmother and
grandkids? -=-
Why?
Because it's the right thing to do?
You could send the kids to school.
They could be very false and sing-songy back to her.
Maybe find some articles for your mom about how a positive attitude
and laughter and humor can help with cancer recovery!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them to
because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said that
she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.-=-
Maybe you could ask her to put that in writing, so her grandchildren
will have something to remember her by.
It's not the nicest thing to say, but it might make her consider what
she's saying and how ridiculous it would be for her to put that in
writing... "You should have made the kids write me cards, and
unschooling is horrible and they'll pay for it later."
-=-Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
the bad relationship with her grandkids. -=-
Well then you've given her a gift! She doesn't have to begin to
consider that any of it might be laid at her own feet.
-=-Any way to repair the relationship between grandmother and
grandkids? -=-
Why?
Because it's the right thing to do?
You could send the kids to school.
They could be very false and sing-songy back to her.
Maybe find some articles for your mom about how a positive attitude
and laughter and humor can help with cancer recovery!
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Another bit of useful advice - set it up so that they are not
expected
to just "visit." For example, invite her to go with you when you're
going to a play or musical together - or a movie. Watching something
together is really valuable because it provides a point of commonality
and is a source of something to talk about. If your kids like museums
- science, art, natural history - those can be fun to do with
grandparents.-=-
We found that miniature golf, children's museum or parks were good
environments for the kids to be their happiest selves, and for the
grandparents to get to interact with them about something real.
The suggestion about photos is good, too.
Will the grandmother look at a blog? Can you e-mail her when there's
something new there? Or maybe print out good blog posts and mail
them to her, if she doesn't do internet?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
expected
to just "visit." For example, invite her to go with you when you're
going to a play or musical together - or a movie. Watching something
together is really valuable because it provides a point of commonality
and is a source of something to talk about. If your kids like museums
- science, art, natural history - those can be fun to do with
grandparents.-=-
We found that miniature golf, children's museum or parks were good
environments for the kids to be their happiest selves, and for the
grandparents to get to interact with them about something real.
The suggestion about photos is good, too.
Will the grandmother look at a blog? Can you e-mail her when there's
something new there? Or maybe print out good blog posts and mail
them to her, if she doesn't do internet?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-It's hard to express what my thoughts are on the page. I'm not
trying to do this out of guilt or obligation, nor am I trying to make
my mom something she's not. I've always believed in people before
things.-=-
How will "people before things" apply if your mother wants you to
choose between her and your children?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
trying to do this out of guilt or obligation, nor am I trying to make
my mom something she's not. I've always believed in people before
things.-=-
How will "people before things" apply if your mother wants you to
choose between her and your children?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jay
I guess I'm at the point in my life where I want to try or at least
make a good faith effort to repair my own relationship with my mother.
I was just kind of flabbergasted that she blamed the unschooling for
her lack of relationship with my kids.
The pic idea is a good one, as is trying to take her along on
excursions (though in the past she's not been interested; she's busy).
If she doesn't want a real relationship with me and my kids, that's her
loss, but I know I have avoided her in the past because of how she is.
If I try to make amends, then there won't be any reason for guilt later.
Just thoughts I had since spending time with her for the first time in
a very very long time.
Jay
make a good faith effort to repair my own relationship with my mother.
I was just kind of flabbergasted that she blamed the unschooling for
her lack of relationship with my kids.
The pic idea is a good one, as is trying to take her along on
excursions (though in the past she's not been interested; she's busy).
If she doesn't want a real relationship with me and my kids, that's her
loss, but I know I have avoided her in the past because of how she is.
If I try to make amends, then there won't be any reason for guilt later.
Just thoughts I had since spending time with her for the first time in
a very very long time.
Jay
Sandra Dodd
-=-If she doesn't want a real relationship with me and my kids,
that's her
loss, but I know I have avoided her in the past because of how she is.
If I try to make amends, then there won't be any reason for guilt
later.-=-
If you try to make amends and that gives her access to insult the
kids directly instead of indirectly, there will be something else
(possibly) to feel guilty about.
I bet the photos will help, and regular offers of outings might help
too. Maybe it will at least tip the balance and she'll be feeling
guilty for not going instead of you feeling guilty for not trying.
Keith's parents did seem disappointed there in the middle of it all
because there weren't school achievements to brag about, but by the
time the oldest was a teen, they were softening up. There were jobs,
and successes in real-world things. And now they're fine with it
entirely, though they're too old to have as much social life in which
to brag, I guess.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that's her
loss, but I know I have avoided her in the past because of how she is.
If I try to make amends, then there won't be any reason for guilt
later.-=-
If you try to make amends and that gives her access to insult the
kids directly instead of indirectly, there will be something else
(possibly) to feel guilty about.
I bet the photos will help, and regular offers of outings might help
too. Maybe it will at least tip the balance and she'll be feeling
guilty for not going instead of you feeling guilty for not trying.
Keith's parents did seem disappointed there in the middle of it all
because there weren't school achievements to brag about, but by the
time the oldest was a teen, they were softening up. There were jobs,
and successes in real-world things. And now they're fine with it
entirely, though they're too old to have as much social life in which
to brag, I guess.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
**My sister and her dh took the grandkids to a mud park
last weekend -
Ever so slightly off subject, but WHERE is this Mud Park??? That would be
awesome to take my kids AND grandkids to!!! I have an 8 yo dd and an 11 yo
and 4 yo grandsons.
--
**Belinda**
last weekend -
Ever so slightly off subject, but WHERE is this Mud Park??? That would be
awesome to take my kids AND grandkids to!!! I have an 8 yo dd and an 11 yo
and 4 yo grandsons.
--
**Belinda**
Beth Fleming
Some of our best memories when my older two kids were small came from meeting g'ma and g'pa at a small farm close to their house. The kids loved the animals (and the pancakes in the small restaurant) and we weren't "messing up" g'ma's house. I agree that meeting on neutral ground is a great idea!
Beth in MA
----- Original Message ----
From: Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 10:29:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Dealing with Grandparents who disagree with unschooling
-=-Another bit of useful advice - set it up so that they are not
expected
to just "visit." For example, invite her to go with you when you're
going to a play or musical together - or a movie. Watching something
together is really valuable because it provides a point of commonality
and is a source of something to talk about. If your kids like museums
- science, art, natural history - those can be fun to do with
grandparents. -=-
We found that miniature golf, children's museum or parks were good
environments for the kids to be their happiest selves, and for the
grandparents to get to interact with them about something real.
The suggestion about photos is good, too.
Will the grandmother look at a blog? Can you e-mail her when there's
something new there? Or maybe print out good blog posts and mail
them to her, if she doesn't do internet?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
barbara emrich
Hi Jay-
Speaking from personal experience with an extremely dysfunctional
family---(alcoholic mean mother, completely selfish and self absorbed
father, multiple messed up siblings as a result.....) I can say, at the ripe
old age of 38, that trying hard, over and over, to get your family to be
different or understand you and your point of view, is really a waste of
time and a waste of energy for you and your kids.
I know I'll get flack for this, as it's just so not socially acceptable to
"give up on" your family. And it's just commonly accepted that it's the
"right thing" to do to keep a comfortable relationship going with your kids'
grandparents. But from my experience, when you finally stop making all this
effort, which in my case resulted in all sorts of stress for me and my
household (three little kids, a husband who's awesome and patient), your
life dramatically improves. There's room for new friendships, new
interests, more time and energy left for your kids and spouse, the list goes
on.... I'm not exaggerating when I say this: Quitting my family made me a
much happier person.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you tell your mom to stay away or stop
answering the phone. I did these things and they worked for me. But I
think my relationship with my mom, based on your description of yours, was
way more deteriorated than yours, so.... But I do think stopping any back
and forth exchange that puts you in the position of explaining yourself or
placating your mom or apologizing for being who you are or pretending like
some mean thing she said never happened, should stop. For your own peace of
mind. Don't call her back if she leaves mean messages. Refuse to discuss
topics that are critical to your kids. Just end them. She can leave your
house if she doesn't like it. I really believe it helps to have
boundaries. I figure if my kids want to have a relationship with my mother
or father when they're older (right now they have zero interest---there was
never much of a connection to begin with) then they can pursue that. But
right now, it's my job to teach them by example that letting people treat
you like crap isn't a necessary part of life. I realized that I was just
playing out an old script from my childhood, over and over again, and that
no one was interested in changing that script. So I quit the play.
I came to this over many years of struggle, so it's hard to just tell
someone to implement it right away. But I was compelled to write because I
think my approach, what might be called the zero tolerance approach, is way
underrated in our society. Whenever I bother to tell any new person in my
life about it, I usually get knee- jerk arguments to the contrary. I don't
post a lot, but the thing that always gets me going is when someone talks
about how they're tying so hard to make a mean person be nice or learn to
live with someone being mean to them. It just isn't necessary. And it
isn't your job to learn to live with it and "rise above it." That's not
human nature. When your mother says repeated mean things to you, you
shouldn't be expected to just let it roll off.
My little bit o'wisdom--
Barb
Speaking from personal experience with an extremely dysfunctional
family---(alcoholic mean mother, completely selfish and self absorbed
father, multiple messed up siblings as a result.....) I can say, at the ripe
old age of 38, that trying hard, over and over, to get your family to be
different or understand you and your point of view, is really a waste of
time and a waste of energy for you and your kids.
I know I'll get flack for this, as it's just so not socially acceptable to
"give up on" your family. And it's just commonly accepted that it's the
"right thing" to do to keep a comfortable relationship going with your kids'
grandparents. But from my experience, when you finally stop making all this
effort, which in my case resulted in all sorts of stress for me and my
household (three little kids, a husband who's awesome and patient), your
life dramatically improves. There's room for new friendships, new
interests, more time and energy left for your kids and spouse, the list goes
on.... I'm not exaggerating when I say this: Quitting my family made me a
much happier person.
Now, I'm not suggesting that you tell your mom to stay away or stop
answering the phone. I did these things and they worked for me. But I
think my relationship with my mom, based on your description of yours, was
way more deteriorated than yours, so.... But I do think stopping any back
and forth exchange that puts you in the position of explaining yourself or
placating your mom or apologizing for being who you are or pretending like
some mean thing she said never happened, should stop. For your own peace of
mind. Don't call her back if she leaves mean messages. Refuse to discuss
topics that are critical to your kids. Just end them. She can leave your
house if she doesn't like it. I really believe it helps to have
boundaries. I figure if my kids want to have a relationship with my mother
or father when they're older (right now they have zero interest---there was
never much of a connection to begin with) then they can pursue that. But
right now, it's my job to teach them by example that letting people treat
you like crap isn't a necessary part of life. I realized that I was just
playing out an old script from my childhood, over and over again, and that
no one was interested in changing that script. So I quit the play.
I came to this over many years of struggle, so it's hard to just tell
someone to implement it right away. But I was compelled to write because I
think my approach, what might be called the zero tolerance approach, is way
underrated in our society. Whenever I bother to tell any new person in my
life about it, I usually get knee- jerk arguments to the contrary. I don't
post a lot, but the thing that always gets me going is when someone talks
about how they're tying so hard to make a mean person be nice or learn to
live with someone being mean to them. It just isn't necessary. And it
isn't your job to learn to live with it and "rise above it." That's not
human nature. When your mother says repeated mean things to you, you
shouldn't be expected to just let it roll off.
My little bit o'wisdom--
Barb
On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 4:31 PM, Jay <jay.ford79@...> wrote:
> This has been an ongoing problem but not a huge issue in the past
> because my kids hardly see this particular grandmother (my mother).
> She was recently diagnosed with breast cancer (very low grade,
> excellent prognosis) and she called to say she was miffed my kids
> didn't send her cards or call her.
>
> Mind you my kids have never been close to her at all. When the kids
> were younger she'd come over and all she'd want to do was take
> pictures and create Hallmark card moments. She'd bear gifts but
> then expect my kids to drop everything and play with them the way
> she envisioned. She would get ticked that they wanted to do
> something else, or play with whatever in a different way, etc. She
> always has and still does speak to them in a sing-song-y baby voice
> (they're 10 & 14). She can't just BE with them and spend time with
> them and talk to them. Consequently my kids have never sought her
> out.
>
> I personally don't have (and never have had) a good relationship
> with my mother. She has demonstrated time and time again that she
> prefers to go out of her way to help other people and not her own
> family. Holidays are supposed to be picture-postcard perfect and no
> deviations from what she envisions allowed.
>
> I give this background because after she mentioned that my kids
> didn't send her cards (and hinted that I should have forced them to
> because it was the right thing to do she said) that she said that
> she has never and will never agree with unschooling, that it's
> horrible and my kids are going to pay for it later.
>
> This came out of the blue. I was taken aback a bit because she's
> never even tried to get to know my kids as people. Why does she
> hate unschooling? Because I have deprived her of her rights as a
> grandmother because there are no awards to hang on the fridge, no
> bragging rights, no soccer games, no graduations or plays or all
> that stuff, therefore she can't brag on her grandkids.
>
> Anyway the point of this ramble is that she blames unschooling for
> the bad relationship with her grandkids. The fact that she never
> even tried to just spend time with them and be with them and get to
> know them fell on deaf ears.
>
> She doesn't want to educate herself on unschooling (obviously hasn't
> in 14 years). Any way to repair the relationship between
> grandmother and grandkids?
>
> Jay
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
Huntington Beach, California -- it is called "Adventure Playground."
-pam
-pam
On Jul 6, 2008, at 4:56 AM, b.newbold@... wrote:
> **My sister and her dh took the grandkids to a mud park
> last weekend -
>
> Ever so slightly off subject, but WHERE is this Mud Park??? That
> would be
> awesome to take my kids AND grandkids to!!! I have an 8 yo dd and
> an 11 yo
> and 4 yo grandsons.
J Geller
--- In [email protected], "Jay" <jay.ford79@...> wrote:
The Work
thework.com incredibly helpful in jumpstarting and solidifying this
process.)
I too have found Byron Katie to be incredibly helpful for me. Her book
"Loving What Is" was what helped me to have a good relationship with
my mother. It has also helped me in having a good relationship with my
kids and with myself. It is a big tool for me in my journey towards
unschooling (along with Ross Greene's collaborative problem solving).
Has anyone else read it and found it helpful?
Jae
>In the topic of bad role models, Cathy wrote: (I found Byron Katie's
> I guess I'm at the point in my life where I want to try or at least
> make a good faith effort to repair my own relationship with my mother.
>
> Jay
>
The Work
thework.com incredibly helpful in jumpstarting and solidifying this
process.)
I too have found Byron Katie to be incredibly helpful for me. Her book
"Loving What Is" was what helped me to have a good relationship with
my mother. It has also helped me in having a good relationship with my
kids and with myself. It is a big tool for me in my journey towards
unschooling (along with Ross Greene's collaborative problem solving).
Has anyone else read it and found it helpful?
Jae