My son and unschooling
carnationsgalore
My son Jeffrey will be 12 years old in a couple of weeks. He is my
child with Aspergers Syndrome that I have talked about in some other
posts. My DH used to be so on board with unschooling but started
changing his mind when he realized how narrowly focused Jeffrey can
be. My DH isn't interested in schooling our son, but he does want
to find a way to help our son explore the world around him. Jeffrey
can be challenging sometimes because of the things he doesn't like.
He doesn't like going outside (bugs and weather), swimming (hates
water in or near his face), museums, fiction, and traveling away
from home, just to name a few. When we do get him to agree on going
somewhere, he withdraws and is with us only physically. He trails
along and continually asks, 'how much longer until we go home.'
My DH and I definitely agree that putting our son in a school would
be harmful. That's not an issue. But my DH has gotten frustrated
because strewing doesn't work with Jeffrey. He is completely
indifferent when it comes to something he hasn't specifically sought
out on his own. That's why my DH suggested we pull some academics
in to our day. He likes to see Jeffrey "learning" by discussing
math concepts and reading books aloud and discussing them. Jeffrey
is thoughtful and insightful when discussing things, but he doesn't
take the interests further. He wants to go back to playing his
video games. I still say he's young enough that his main interest
in video games is completely normal.
Beth M.
child with Aspergers Syndrome that I have talked about in some other
posts. My DH used to be so on board with unschooling but started
changing his mind when he realized how narrowly focused Jeffrey can
be. My DH isn't interested in schooling our son, but he does want
to find a way to help our son explore the world around him. Jeffrey
can be challenging sometimes because of the things he doesn't like.
He doesn't like going outside (bugs and weather), swimming (hates
water in or near his face), museums, fiction, and traveling away
from home, just to name a few. When we do get him to agree on going
somewhere, he withdraws and is with us only physically. He trails
along and continually asks, 'how much longer until we go home.'
My DH and I definitely agree that putting our son in a school would
be harmful. That's not an issue. But my DH has gotten frustrated
because strewing doesn't work with Jeffrey. He is completely
indifferent when it comes to something he hasn't specifically sought
out on his own. That's why my DH suggested we pull some academics
in to our day. He likes to see Jeffrey "learning" by discussing
math concepts and reading books aloud and discussing them. Jeffrey
is thoughtful and insightful when discussing things, but he doesn't
take the interests further. He wants to go back to playing his
video games. I still say he's young enough that his main interest
in video games is completely normal.
Beth M.
Sandra Dodd
-=-But my DH has gotten frustrated
because strewing doesn't work with Jeffrey. He is completely
indifferent when it comes to something he hasn't specifically sought
out on his own. That's why my DH suggested we pull some academics
in to our day. He likes to see Jeffrey "learning" by discussing
math concepts and reading books aloud and discussing them. Jeffrey
is thoughtful and insightful when discussing things, but he doesn't
take the interests further. He wants to go back to playing his
video games. I still say he's young enough that his main interest
in video games is completely normal. -=-
Does your husband play the games your son likes? That might be a
good thing to do.
How about movies? Will he watch movies with you? DVD nights
together maybe?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
because strewing doesn't work with Jeffrey. He is completely
indifferent when it comes to something he hasn't specifically sought
out on his own. That's why my DH suggested we pull some academics
in to our day. He likes to see Jeffrey "learning" by discussing
math concepts and reading books aloud and discussing them. Jeffrey
is thoughtful and insightful when discussing things, but he doesn't
take the interests further. He wants to go back to playing his
video games. I still say he's young enough that his main interest
in video games is completely normal. -=-
Does your husband play the games your son likes? That might be a
good thing to do.
How about movies? Will he watch movies with you? DVD nights
together maybe?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna Murphy
--- In [email protected], "carnationsgalore" <addled.homemaker@...>
wrote:
good idea to do something that my daughter hasn't agreed to at least try, it just isn't a
good thing. It's like she needs to muster the inner resources to do whatever
task/adventure is at hand, and if she hasn't chosen to do it then she doesn't shift into a
place within herself to open to the experience. Therefore, she gets nothing (or little) from
it. It becomes a very two-dimensional experience, with the main focus on when we are
going home.
He may just need more cocooning time. My son (just 13) wanted to go out very little
during his 12 year old year. He has been very involved in computer activities. He plays
WOW and is also very into Roblox (which your son might like if he hasn't discovered it
already). But things seem to be changing. They changed on his 13th birthday
(yesterday!). He had a long talk with me and told me what some of the changes he's
decided to make are. Some of them have to do with how he seems himself and interacts
with others, and I had already noticed that change when he decided to tell me about it, so I
know he's pretty serious. It actually reminded me of how he decided to potty train. Right
after his 3rd birthday he announced that he'd no longer wear diapers. There was no lead
in--no consistently dry ones at night or using the potty during the day--he annouced it
and did it.
The point I was trying to make is that he might still be percolating inside and not be ready
to show the world yet. But trying to force him doesn't seem like the way to go. Through
the intensity of his interest in video games, he will likely find himself. It can challenge us
to see our children be so narrowly focused in a "well-rounded" world, but when you
concentrate the beam of a Magnalite flashlight, it has so much more power than when it is
diffused. I would keep providing him with a good variety of games, and see if you can
branch out through the games he likes into websites and chat rooms about the games, or
movies with similar characters--think Tomb Raider (great flick!), stuff like that. Field trips
to the video store.
==That's why my DH suggested we pull some academics
different video games he's playing. Aside from being filled with mathematical concepts
like complex puzzle solving, many of them have great stories, as well as beautiful artwork
and good music. My kids have been excited to hear the classical pieces that are in their
video games. Maybe instead of "pulling in" you could think of "branching out" from where
his interests already are.
wrote:
>It seems clear that he really isn't ready to go out. I have found that whenever I think it's a
> ==My son Jeffrey will be 12 years old in a couple of weeks. He is my
> child with Aspergers Syndrome that I have talked about in some other
> posts. My DH used to be so on board with unschooling but started
> changing his mind when he realized how narrowly focused Jeffrey can
> be. My DH isn't interested in schooling our son, but he does want
> to find a way to help our son explore the world around him. Jeffrey
> can be challenging sometimes because of the things he doesn't like.
> He doesn't like going outside (bugs and weather), swimming (hates
> water in or near his face), museums, fiction, and traveling away
> from home, just to name a few. When we do get him to agree on going
> somewhere, he withdraws and is with us only physically. He trails
> along and continually asks, 'how much longer until we go home.==
good idea to do something that my daughter hasn't agreed to at least try, it just isn't a
good thing. It's like she needs to muster the inner resources to do whatever
task/adventure is at hand, and if she hasn't chosen to do it then she doesn't shift into a
place within herself to open to the experience. Therefore, she gets nothing (or little) from
it. It becomes a very two-dimensional experience, with the main focus on when we are
going home.
He may just need more cocooning time. My son (just 13) wanted to go out very little
during his 12 year old year. He has been very involved in computer activities. He plays
WOW and is also very into Roblox (which your son might like if he hasn't discovered it
already). But things seem to be changing. They changed on his 13th birthday
(yesterday!). He had a long talk with me and told me what some of the changes he's
decided to make are. Some of them have to do with how he seems himself and interacts
with others, and I had already noticed that change when he decided to tell me about it, so I
know he's pretty serious. It actually reminded me of how he decided to potty train. Right
after his 3rd birthday he announced that he'd no longer wear diapers. There was no lead
in--no consistently dry ones at night or using the potty during the day--he annouced it
and did it.
The point I was trying to make is that he might still be percolating inside and not be ready
to show the world yet. But trying to force him doesn't seem like the way to go. Through
the intensity of his interest in video games, he will likely find himself. It can challenge us
to see our children be so narrowly focused in a "well-rounded" world, but when you
concentrate the beam of a Magnalite flashlight, it has so much more power than when it is
diffused. I would keep providing him with a good variety of games, and see if you can
branch out through the games he likes into websites and chat rooms about the games, or
movies with similar characters--think Tomb Raider (great flick!), stuff like that. Field trips
to the video store.
==That's why my DH suggested we pull some academics
> in to our day. He likes to see Jeffrey "learning" by discussingYou could sit and make a list of all the academic subjects that are covered through the
> math concepts and reading books aloud and discussing them. ==
different video games he's playing. Aside from being filled with mathematical concepts
like complex puzzle solving, many of them have great stories, as well as beautiful artwork
and good music. My kids have been excited to hear the classical pieces that are in their
video games. Maybe instead of "pulling in" you could think of "branching out" from where
his interests already are.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jul 4, 2008, at 3:11 PM, carnationsgalore wrote:
autistic spectrum.
Prepuberty can be a very odd time for some kids. They're caught
between child interests and adult interests and for some very little
seems interesting which is supremely frustrating. Between 10 and 12
she watched lots of TV and played lots of video games.
Probably at 12 she showed glimmers of moving past, but boys develop a
year later. At 13 I do remember her taste chemistry had finally
changed and she could eat beyond a very narrow range and she was
definitely drawing and writing again.
classes which she had always enjoyed. But at 14 she took one of my
husband's math classes. She also finally moved into her own room ;-)
And though she'd had problems staying over night at other's houses 6
months later she was at an intense car design camp halfway across the
country for 2 weeks without a bit of homesickness. (She also
discovered that though she enjoyed it she definitely didn't want a
college that is that intense. She wants time to have fun ;-) And then
she flew back to Boston all by herself (my husband had driven her out).
At 15 she discovered guitar and threw herself into it. Along with
more art. At 16 she discovered social needs which got added into the
mix and spends several hours on the phone and IMs and interacts on
Deviantart and Facebook. She knew of those things before but it was
like "Why?" ;-)
She just would not have been interested in "intellectual" stuff at
12. But by 14 she was moving that direction. Now at 16 we can have
discussions about movies and books and music that are deep and
insightful. The changes between 12 and 16 were huge for her and there
was little indication in her 12 yo self of who she'd be at 16.
And the year she began moving towards more expansive adult-like
thinking coincides with high school. I think educators at least got
that part right ;-) 14 can be the age of thinking that's expanding as
well as focusing more intensely on what interests them. (I'm
wondering if boys are still not at that stage at 14. Physically they
still look like middle schoolers.) It's why they don't have high
school for 12 yos. In fact lots of educators admit that middle school
is just a holding pen. They really can't achieve much with them at
that age. They just keep them contained until they can pass them off
to high school ;-)
So I think your husband is seeing a slide into deeper Aspergers when
he's really seeing a child in prepuberty. The symptoms may be more
intense for your son but the effects are the same.
Joyce
> But my DH has gotten frustratedMy daughter had similar tendencies at 12 and she's no where near the
> because strewing doesn't work with Jeffrey. He is completely
> indifferent when it comes to something he hasn't specifically sought
> out on his own.
autistic spectrum.
Prepuberty can be a very odd time for some kids. They're caught
between child interests and adult interests and for some very little
seems interesting which is supremely frustrating. Between 10 and 12
she watched lots of TV and played lots of video games.
Probably at 12 she showed glimmers of moving past, but boys develop a
year later. At 13 I do remember her taste chemistry had finally
changed and she could eat beyond a very narrow range and she was
definitely drawing and writing again.
> He likes to see Jeffrey "learning" by discussingIn that transition period I don't think she was even taking art
> math concepts and reading books aloud and discussing them.
>
classes which she had always enjoyed. But at 14 she took one of my
husband's math classes. She also finally moved into her own room ;-)
And though she'd had problems staying over night at other's houses 6
months later she was at an intense car design camp halfway across the
country for 2 weeks without a bit of homesickness. (She also
discovered that though she enjoyed it she definitely didn't want a
college that is that intense. She wants time to have fun ;-) And then
she flew back to Boston all by herself (my husband had driven her out).
At 15 she discovered guitar and threw herself into it. Along with
more art. At 16 she discovered social needs which got added into the
mix and spends several hours on the phone and IMs and interacts on
Deviantart and Facebook. She knew of those things before but it was
like "Why?" ;-)
She just would not have been interested in "intellectual" stuff at
12. But by 14 she was moving that direction. Now at 16 we can have
discussions about movies and books and music that are deep and
insightful. The changes between 12 and 16 were huge for her and there
was little indication in her 12 yo self of who she'd be at 16.
And the year she began moving towards more expansive adult-like
thinking coincides with high school. I think educators at least got
that part right ;-) 14 can be the age of thinking that's expanding as
well as focusing more intensely on what interests them. (I'm
wondering if boys are still not at that stage at 14. Physically they
still look like middle schoolers.) It's why they don't have high
school for 12 yos. In fact lots of educators admit that middle school
is just a holding pen. They really can't achieve much with them at
that age. They just keep them contained until they can pass them off
to high school ;-)
So I think your husband is seeing a slide into deeper Aspergers when
he's really seeing a child in prepuberty. The symptoms may be more
intense for your son but the effects are the same.
Joyce
carnationsgalore
> Does your husband play the games your son likes? That might be aNot all of them. My DH likes some of the cartoonish playful easy ones
> good thing to do.
like Mario Kart, or Super Mario. Jeffrey has lost interest in those
types of games. He plays more mature games like Grand Theft Auto,
Mercenaries, Battlefield Bad Boys, and Call of Duty.
> How about movies? Will he watch movies with you? DVD nightsYes, we are Netflix members which has been great. We've had a lot of
> together maybe?
fun sharing old favorites with the kids. The only movies Jeffrey has
really refused to watch are musicals of any type.
Beth M.
carnationsgalore
> He may just need more cocooning time. My son (just 13) wantedSo maybe this is a natural thing for Jeffrey to be feeling? I had
> to go out very little during his 12 year old year. He has been
> very involved in computer activities.
someone else suggest that puberty can be playing a large role in our
son's life.
> The point I was trying to make is that he might still beYes, this is what I'd like to help my DH understand. I think some
> percolating inside and not be ready to show the world yet. But
> trying to force him doesn't seem like the way to go.
individuals like a nudge now and then, but Jeffrey has always been
the kind of person to choose his own timing. I'm reminded of when
he wanted to try TaeKwonDo. A kid in his Kindergarten class brought
in a TKD belt for show and tell and it impressed Jeffrey. We went
to a TKD place to observe classes. My youngest daughter Allison is
20 months younger than Jeffrey. She is an impulsive person, like
me, and signed up on the spot. Jeffrey watched her classes for 6
months before he asked to join. I think my DH is having a hard time
letting our son take the lead on things because he's getting close
to high school age. It's that old schoolish mentality again, isn't
it?
> I would keep providing him with a good variety of games,...Yes, I think that's a great idea. In fact, Jeffrey wants his
birthday centered on Game Stop. Jeffrey doesn't like opening
presents because he doesn't like surprises. Instead, we take him
shopping for his birthday gifts. The past several birthdays have
been spent at the Lego Store. This year he wants to go to Game
Stop. He's so excited!
> You could sit and make a list of all the academic subjects thatVery true! And he likes stuff about war like Call of Duty. He's
> are covered through the different video games he's playing.
picked up history from playing those games.
> Maybe instead of "pulling in" you could think of "branching out"Great idea. I should learn more about the games so I can share some
> from where his interests already are.
suggestions with Jeffrey. He reads about games in magazines and
online so he chooses his own games and knows an incredible amount
about them, but I don't much about them at all. I need to take more
of an active interest in his passion. Perhaps even if my DH
can't "see" it, my DH will feel better knowing I am involved in our
son's interests and learning.
That resonates within me actually. My DH has always trusted my
instinct in homeschooling decisions. He tells me he happily shares
with coworkers that our homeschooling is going so well because I am
so passionate about our children. No wonder my DH is worried
lately. Jeffrey spends so much time in his room alone with his
video games. I need to get in there and be with him. I bet he'll
be so excited to show me how to play those games.
Thanks!
Beth M.
Sandra Dodd
-=-It can challenge us
to see our children be so narrowly focused in a "well-rounded" world,
but when you
concentrate the beam of a Magnalite flashlight, it has so much more
power than when it is
diffused. I would keep providing him with a good variety of games,
and see if you can
branch out through the games he likes into websites and chat rooms
about the games, or
movies with similar characters--think Tomb Raider (great flick!),
stuff like that. Field trips
to the video store.-=-
Instead of seeing the "well roundedness" by "schoolyear," look at it
by five or ten year blocks. It IS hard, but that's how unschooling
works. You don't get "good samples" at any one point.
The advice about letting kids move out and away when they want to,
and how they want to, is important. It's the basis of attachment
parenting. If you don't leave toddlers in daycare, and you let them
sit by you or on you or hold your hand when they want to, then when
they DO move away a little, you know for sure that they wanted to,
that they felt confident about it.
When Kirby was 12 he wanted to be by himself. I remember thinking he
was being cruel to Marty and Holly by wanting them away from him all
the time, and I was blaming it on our having moved (just a few miles,
but he didn't want to move). But I thought later it was just his age
and his need to have more time alone as he was going through those
physical changes.
The next year he started spending time at a gaming shop up the road
(good thing we moved! <g>) and when he was 14 they hired him, because
they had seen him a lot and gotten to know him, he had been helpful
lots of times, and was good at helping other people understand
games. Probably part of that was the private analysis he had been
doing of games he was playing alone, by choice.
He grew up to have a game-related job. Lots of my kids' friends have
jobs like that, that either involve games, or computers, or cellphone
tech support or customer service. Those aren't games that even
existed when I was growing up. Too many parents are preparing their
kids for the 1980's (or earlier). With younger kids, you can't even
prepare your child for a 2010 job. They'll have 2020 jobs you
couldn't imagine yet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
to see our children be so narrowly focused in a "well-rounded" world,
but when you
concentrate the beam of a Magnalite flashlight, it has so much more
power than when it is
diffused. I would keep providing him with a good variety of games,
and see if you can
branch out through the games he likes into websites and chat rooms
about the games, or
movies with similar characters--think Tomb Raider (great flick!),
stuff like that. Field trips
to the video store.-=-
Instead of seeing the "well roundedness" by "schoolyear," look at it
by five or ten year blocks. It IS hard, but that's how unschooling
works. You don't get "good samples" at any one point.
The advice about letting kids move out and away when they want to,
and how they want to, is important. It's the basis of attachment
parenting. If you don't leave toddlers in daycare, and you let them
sit by you or on you or hold your hand when they want to, then when
they DO move away a little, you know for sure that they wanted to,
that they felt confident about it.
When Kirby was 12 he wanted to be by himself. I remember thinking he
was being cruel to Marty and Holly by wanting them away from him all
the time, and I was blaming it on our having moved (just a few miles,
but he didn't want to move). But I thought later it was just his age
and his need to have more time alone as he was going through those
physical changes.
The next year he started spending time at a gaming shop up the road
(good thing we moved! <g>) and when he was 14 they hired him, because
they had seen him a lot and gotten to know him, he had been helpful
lots of times, and was good at helping other people understand
games. Probably part of that was the private analysis he had been
doing of games he was playing alone, by choice.
He grew up to have a game-related job. Lots of my kids' friends have
jobs like that, that either involve games, or computers, or cellphone
tech support or customer service. Those aren't games that even
existed when I was growing up. Too many parents are preparing their
kids for the 1980's (or earlier). With younger kids, you can't even
prepare your child for a 2010 job. They'll have 2020 jobs you
couldn't imagine yet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carnationsgalore
> My daughter had similar tendencies at 12 and she's no where nearI was just thinking of this as I was responding to Joanna's post.
> the autistic spectrum.
>
> Prepuberty can be a very odd time for some kids.
> She just would not have been interested in "intellectual" stuffYES! I understand what you mean. And as I was reading your post, I
> at 12.
> The changes between 12 and 16 were huge for her and there
> was little indication in her 12 yo self of who she'd be at 16.
had a sudden insight into my DH's thinking. My DH has talked about
preparing our son for the high school years. I see where
his 'thinking' is going astray from our previous beliefs in
unschooling. Jeffrey is who he is today and will be who he is when
he's 16. We don't need to do anything specific to prepare him for
the future. I need to talk to my DH and see I'm understanding him
correctly. I know my DH thinks a high school diploma is really
important. That's probably influencing his thoughts tremendously.
> So I think your husband is seeing a slide into deeper AspergersThank you Joyce! You and Joanna have helped me see this from a
> when he's really seeing a child in prepuberty. The symptoms may
> be more intense for your son but the effects are the same.
> Joyce
different perspective. I believe you are right about puberty and us
getting too hung up on the Aspergers Syndrome.
Beth M.
Ed Wendell
Game Stop has gift cards.
Game Stop also has a "membership" type thing where you get a magazine and a discount on used games.
Zac (just turned 14) wanted the mag. last summer (age 13) and has loved receiving the gaming mag every month - we just renewed. Plus there is an incentive to shop for used games due to the discount. It helps that there is a Game Stop next to our Grocery store so he goes in there while we shop for groceries - sometimes.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Game Stop also has a "membership" type thing where you get a magazine and a discount on used games.
Zac (just turned 14) wanted the mag. last summer (age 13) and has loved receiving the gaming mag every month - we just renewed. Plus there is an incentive to shop for used games due to the discount. It helps that there is a Game Stop next to our Grocery store so he goes in there while we shop for groceries - sometimes.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
carnationsgalore
> Game Stop also has a "membership" type thing where you get aYes, we have that. The magazine is called Game Informer. Jeffrey
> magazine and a discount on used games.
loves that magazine and has saved every issue he's received. The 10%
saved on used games is very nice too. :)
Beth M.