Bill Ellis

> DACunefare@... wrote:
>
> A very religious friend told another of our friends, in a similar
> situation,
> that it could be argued that avoiding contact with an abusive parent is
> obeying the law to "honor thy mother and father"

BE:
This is a absurd oxymoron. Abusive parents are living by the biblical
dictate "spare the rod and spoil the child." To use "honor thy mother
and father" to justify abuse hardly came from the mouth of Jesus.

If "a very religious friend" can justify such support for abuse, I
suggest
s/he join the Taliban.


IMHO
Bill Ellis

Sandra Dodd

-=-If "a very religious friend" can justify such support for abuse, I
suggest
s/he join the Taliban.-=-

Bill, I think you read too quickly. Deb said "...it could be argued
that avoiding contact with an abusive parent is..."



Also, this is important for everyone here to know:

==================

**I assume you're talking about "spare the rod, spoil the child"**

And that line isn't even from the Bible.

==================

read more:

http://sandradodd.com/s/rod


Sandra









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

What timing. I just received an email and the title of it was: "Until You
Value Yourself Don't Expect Anyone Else To". How great is that? It's
absolutely true in my case because I don't value myself because of all of the
belittling that my mother did growing up. I'm overweight, and I think to some
extent it's my way of 'getting back' at my mom. Doing something that she has
absolutely NO control over! Dang. Now if I can only take this thinking and
actually start losing weight it will be a miracle, but I'm going to give it a
shot!

--
**Belinda**

Ed Wendell

I've got a book called "Shrink Yourself" by Roger Gould, M.D. that I found at the book store about 2 months ago.

There is a web site too, with an online program - the book is way cheaper and better in my opinion.

Lisa W.





I'm overweight, and I think to some
extent it's my way of 'getting back' at my mom. Doing something that she has absolutely NO control over! Dang. Now if I can only take this thinking and
actually start losing weight it will be a miracle, but I'm going to give it a
shot!

--
**Belinda**
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>I've got a book called "Shrink Yourself" by Roger Gould, M.D. that I found at
the book store about 2 months ago.

Have you read this book, and does it really help? If so I can look for it
online, but wanted your opinion on it first.


--
**Belinda**

elwazani

--- In [email protected], Bill Ellis <tranet@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> > DACunefare@... wrote:
> >
> > A very religious friend told another of our friends, in a similar
> > situation,
> > that it could be argued that avoiding contact with an abusive
parent is
> > obeying the law to "honor thy mother and father"
>
> BE:
> This is a absurd oxymoron. Abusive parents are living by the
biblical
> dictate "spare the rod and spoil the child." To use "honor thy
mother
> and father" to justify abuse hardly came from the mouth of Jesus.
>
> If "a very religious friend" can justify such support for abuse,
I
> suggest
> s/he join the Taliban.
>
>
> IMHO
> Bill Ellis
>


Could be wrong here, but I was lead to believe that "spare the rod,
spoil the child" isn't even IN the Bible....any one have the real 411?

Beverly

k

Spare the rod, spoil the child is a sort of colloquialism that may have
grown out of this verse:

Proverbs 23:13 Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest
him with the rod, he shall not die. (KJV)

Crappy though it is, that's in the king's English. Not *my* kind of king.

~Katherine




On 6/26/08, elwazani <elwazani@...> wrote:
>
> --- In [email protected] <AlwaysLearning%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Bill Ellis <tranet@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > DACunefare@... wrote:
> > >
> > > A very religious friend told another of our friends, in a similar
> > > situation,
> > > that it could be argued that avoiding contact with an abusive
> parent is
> > > obeying the law to "honor thy mother and father"
> >
> > BE:
> > This is a absurd oxymoron. Abusive parents are living by the
> biblical
> > dictate "spare the rod and spoil the child." To use "honor thy
> mother
> > and father" to justify abuse hardly came from the mouth of Jesus.
> >
> > If "a very religious friend" can justify such support for abuse,
> I
> > suggest
> > s/he join the Taliban.
> >
> >
> > IMHO
> > Bill Ellis
> >
>
> Could be wrong here, but I was lead to believe that "spare the rod,
> spoil the child" isn't even IN the Bible....any one have the real 411?
>
> Beverly
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>Could be wrong here, but I was lead to believe that "spare the rod,
spoil the child" isn't even IN the Bible....any one have the real 411?

Yes. The actual quote is as follows: "He who spareth the rod hateth his son:
but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and "Withhold
not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not
die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell."
(Proverbs 23:13-14)


--
**Belinda**

J Geller

I have been trying to lose weight also. I just put this book on hold at the library. Any other books or advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

My son (the one who makes everything a game) has become my fitness coach and we is taking me on fitness walks and is supporting me in not eating too much. I have lost a few pounds with his help. It is a total hoot to hear my 9 year old telling me how to eat in a healthy manner. I had no clue that he knew so much about nutrition. I have always been very into eating a really healthy diet (I just eat too much of a healthy diet) but he has picked up more info than some nutritionists. Binging on healthy foods and not getting enough exercise are my problems. No treats or desserts for me unless I work them off these days. I only need to lose about 15-20 pounds but having his help is great. He is also the reason that is impossible for me to go exercise whenever I want. I can see that enlisting his support will make it much easier for me than trying to go off and do it on my own. My favorite exercise is walking or hiking and I can only do that with him or when my husband can watch him.

Jae
Redmond, WA


I've got a book called "Shrink Yourself" by Roger Gould, M.D. that I found at the book store about 2 months ago.

There is a web site too, with an online program - the book is way cheaper and better in my opinion.

Lisa W.

I'm overweight, and I think to some
extent it's my way of 'getting back' at my mom. Doing something that she has absolutely NO control over! Dang. Now if I can only take this thinking and
actually start losing weight it will be a miracle, but I'm going to give it a
shot!

--
**Belinda**
.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jenny C

> Yes. The actual quote is as follows: "He who spareth the rod hateth
his son:
> but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and
"Withhold
> not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he
shall not
> die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from
hell."
> (Proverbs 23:13-14)
>


My sister spanks her kids because of this verse. Some time ago, someone
left a link to a website that counters that verse. I felt obligated to
explore it to make sure that I had the proper information to discuss the
next time the conversation came up with my sister.

Here's the link... http://aolff.com/?p=96 <http://aolff.com/?p=96>

It is discussed in a few articles on that website. The bible is
misinterpreted from it's original language, subtly and not so subtly, in
many many parts of the bible.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

So beatest is a figure of speech. That makes a lot of sense to me. Also
the phrase "save his soul from hell" in the verse afterwards cannot be
literal either since (if I'm right) the Jews didn't and probably still don't
think in terms of a literal hell. So that probably means something else
too.

~Katherine




On 6/27/08, Jenny C <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yes. The actual quote is as follows: "He who spareth the rod hateth
> his son:
> > but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes" (Proverbs 13:24) and
> "Withhold
> > not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he
> shall not
> > die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from
> hell."
> > (Proverbs 23:13-14)
> >
>
> My sister spanks her kids because of this verse. Some time ago, someone
> left a link to a website that counters that verse. I felt obligated to
> explore it to make sure that I had the proper information to discuss the
> next time the conversation came up with my sister.
>
> Here's the link... http://aolff.com/?p=96 <http://aolff.com/?p=96>
>
> It is discussed in a few articles on that website. The bible is
> misinterpreted from it's original language, subtly and not so subtly, in
> many many parts of the bible.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

diana jenner

On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:42 PM, k <katherand@...> wrote:

> So beatest is a figure of speech. That makes a lot of sense to me. Also
> the phrase "save his soul from hell" in the verse afterwards cannot be
> literal either since (if I'm right) the Jews didn't and probably still
> don't
> think in terms of a literal hell. So that probably means something else
> too.
> . _._,___
>

Which lends itself to the conversation "If Jesus didn't believe in hell (as
a Jew), why do Christians??"
I don't think the concept of Hell came until the Church's demonization of
Hel, the nordic goddess who cared for the souls of those who died from
lingering illnesses... "Go to Hel" is wishing a lingering illness upon
someone, not condemning their soul to a firy afterlife (in it's original
meaning).
While I don't know the timing of the switchup, I'm pretty sure it happened
long after the Christ had died.
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

k

This is one of those onion layer type things. At some point, you get to the
core, and then what have you still got? Decisions about what to think. I
would almost rather just not. One of these days, though, my curiosity is
going to get the better of me. :)

~Katherine


On 6/27/08, diana jenner <hahamommy@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 27, 2008 at 12:42 PM, k <katherand@...<katherand%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > So beatest is a figure of speech. That makes a lot of sense to me. Also
> > the phrase "save his soul from hell" in the verse afterwards cannot be
> > literal either since (if I'm right) the Jews didn't and probably still
> > don't
> > think in terms of a literal hell. So that probably means something else
> > too.
> > . _._,___
> >
>
> Which lends itself to the conversation "If Jesus didn't believe in hell (as
> a Jew), why do Christians??"
> I don't think the concept of Hell came until the Church's demonization of
> Hel, the nordic goddess who cared for the souls of those who died from
> lingering illnesses... "Go to Hel" is wishing a lingering illness upon
> someone, not condemning their soul to a firy afterlife (in it's original
> meaning).
> While I don't know the timing of the switchup, I'm pretty sure it happened
> long after the Christ had died.
> --
> ~diana :)
> xoxoxoxo
> hannahbearski.blogspot.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nancy Machaj

-+-I have been trying to lose weight also. I just put this book on
hold at the library. Any other books or advice or suggestions would
be appreciated.
-=-

I read a book called When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies, http://
www.overcomingovereating.com/WWSHTB.html

I really got a lot out of it, and it has helped me find new ways to
talk to myself about my body and think about myself. I also think
that its totally compatible with unschooly ideas. I think one of the
authors also has cowritten a great book about kids eating,
How To Avoid Childhood Eating Problems. Also, very very good
(although I dont agree with some of their statements about extended
breastfeeding).

Nancy


*****
blogging at:
http://happychildhood.homeschooljournal.net




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandra Dodd

-=-This is one of those onion layer type things. At some point, you
get to the
core, and then what have you still got? Decisions about what to think. I
would almost rather just not.-=-

Life was easier before anyone thought about "decisions." People were
told how to act and they complied, whether they were peasants, serfs,
slaves or kings. And religions grew up around it all to tell them to
do their duty for God or else.

Those who were alive and cognizant in the 1970's saw a lot of things
change with women's rights. People Holly's age would be appalled at
some of what was going on then with laws and beliefs and assumptions.

But with all that, you get choices, and you have to decide what to
think. And it IS harder than just going with the sludgy old flow,
sometimes.



Sandra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]