re: teaching to read
mrsdebus
I don't think anyone teaches a child to read until that child is ready.
My ds taught himself to read before age 4, and my dd is still learning.
Both kids practically begged me to teach them to read when they were 2.
With ds, I thought he was kidding- you learn to read when you go to
school, lol. With dd, I had already had the benefit of seeing ds teach
himself- so I told her she will get it when she is ready.
If she asked now, I would ask, 'What would you like me to do to help?"
One thing we do sometimes, that both my children have *loved* is
treasure hunts. They start with a picture, and then another picture,
etc...then move to "Look in the...". If I do one for ds9 now, it is
more along the line of a code, or scrambled words, etc. For my dd
(nearly 6) I try to make the words phonetic, since that is how she
reads- she knows very few words on sight.
The other one we do is scavenger hunts...my dd loves to check things off
:0) I will write things like "something red", "something round",
"something funny". Once I even added "Please pick up the Lego",
lol...and she did, then ticked it off and bought the paper back to me.
My dd is not at all confident with reading, and so generally I don't ask
her to. dh and I don't agree on that one. I really feel that in asking
her to read (I mean a single word here and there), she has got it on her
head that she *can't* do it. Leaving her alone, and having the odd fun
reading-type thing (completely initiated by her) is what we are doing
now, and I think it is a kind and respectful way to honour her.
Shell (in NZ)
DS9, DD5, DS1
http://unschoolersanonymous.blogspot.com/
My ds taught himself to read before age 4, and my dd is still learning.
Both kids practically begged me to teach them to read when they were 2.
With ds, I thought he was kidding- you learn to read when you go to
school, lol. With dd, I had already had the benefit of seeing ds teach
himself- so I told her she will get it when she is ready.
If she asked now, I would ask, 'What would you like me to do to help?"
One thing we do sometimes, that both my children have *loved* is
treasure hunts. They start with a picture, and then another picture,
etc...then move to "Look in the...". If I do one for ds9 now, it is
more along the line of a code, or scrambled words, etc. For my dd
(nearly 6) I try to make the words phonetic, since that is how she
reads- she knows very few words on sight.
The other one we do is scavenger hunts...my dd loves to check things off
:0) I will write things like "something red", "something round",
"something funny". Once I even added "Please pick up the Lego",
lol...and she did, then ticked it off and bought the paper back to me.
My dd is not at all confident with reading, and so generally I don't ask
her to. dh and I don't agree on that one. I really feel that in asking
her to read (I mean a single word here and there), she has got it on her
head that she *can't* do it. Leaving her alone, and having the odd fun
reading-type thing (completely initiated by her) is what we are doing
now, and I think it is a kind and respectful way to honour her.
Shell (in NZ)
DS9, DD5, DS1
http://unschoolersanonymous.blogspot.com/
Sandra Dodd
-=-I don't think anyone teaches a child to read until that child is
ready.-=-
If unschooling works well for you, you'll never teach a child to read.
And it's likely that teachers at school have never taught a child to
read.
But whether the teacher teaches... if distributing, retrieving,
scoring, recording and returning worksheets is teaching, then they
do! At any one moment, some of the kids are going to be on the edge
of figuring out reading. Maybe something they've heard will help.
Maybe it will baffle them. Maybe some of them are afraid and feel
like reading is beyond them and will be scarred for years.
If a child learns to read while a teacher is trying to teach him to
read, that does NOT mean the teacher did it, caused it, or even helped.
-=-With dd, I had already had the benefit of seeing ds teach
himself- -=-
I think it will help you move further faster if you revise this
thought to "I had already seen him learn to read."
He didn't need a teacher, not even himself.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
-=-Leaving her alone, and having the odd fun
reading-type thing (completely initiated by her) is what we are doing
now, and I think it is a kind and respectful way to honour her.-=-
Reading to her would be better than either of the extremes you're
considering, I think. You could sing to her from a song book open in
your lap. Read stories. Read menus, movie schedules--don't run your
finger along, just help her be fully familiar with what reading's
good for and what you're getting from it and that it's not all in
"readers" or books for kids--it's on the fruit stickers at the store,
and on tires to show how much air they should have and what size they
are, and on the backs of clocks.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ready.-=-
If unschooling works well for you, you'll never teach a child to read.
And it's likely that teachers at school have never taught a child to
read.
But whether the teacher teaches... if distributing, retrieving,
scoring, recording and returning worksheets is teaching, then they
do! At any one moment, some of the kids are going to be on the edge
of figuring out reading. Maybe something they've heard will help.
Maybe it will baffle them. Maybe some of them are afraid and feel
like reading is beyond them and will be scarred for years.
If a child learns to read while a teacher is trying to teach him to
read, that does NOT mean the teacher did it, caused it, or even helped.
-=-With dd, I had already had the benefit of seeing ds teach
himself- -=-
I think it will help you move further faster if you revise this
thought to "I had already seen him learn to read."
He didn't need a teacher, not even himself.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
-=-Leaving her alone, and having the odd fun
reading-type thing (completely initiated by her) is what we are doing
now, and I think it is a kind and respectful way to honour her.-=-
Reading to her would be better than either of the extremes you're
considering, I think. You could sing to her from a song book open in
your lap. Read stories. Read menus, movie schedules--don't run your
finger along, just help her be fully familiar with what reading's
good for and what you're getting from it and that it's not all in
"readers" or books for kids--it's on the fruit stickers at the store,
and on tires to show how much air they should have and what size they
are, and on the backs of clocks.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Amanda Horein
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-=-With dd, I had already had the benefit of seeing ds teach
himself- -=-
I think it will help you move further faster if you revise this
thought to "I had already seen him learn to read."
He didn't need a teacher, not even himself.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was just thinking about this today because on Monday someone complimented
Marti's reading skills. She is 8 (or will be in about 3 weeks) and I believe
she reads at or above her level (whatever that means), but really don't know
in honesty. I think the reason that I get this comment (Wow! She reads
really well for her age) is because she looks younger than she is (many
people think she is 6).
But the situation left me wondering what to say to someone that tells me
that she reads well. I know that "She taught herself" isn't "appropriate" if
you ask Sandra (lol), but with others outside the unschooling world, it
seems like the best answer I can come up with. A couple times it has sparked
a conversation and sometimes I hope the little things (like that or like
seeing the girls out and about with us during school hours or seeing that we
treat our girls like we love them instead of like they are burdens (which
happens a lot when you ride the city bus around here)) will enlighten
people. I don't know.
Anyway, I my point was that I was just exploring this theme today. Crazy how
that works, huh?
--
Amanda
http://whatmykidstaughtme.blogspot.com/
http://365daysofsparkle.blogspot.com
My "Working Toward Pro" Photographs
www.hopescreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
-=-With dd, I had already had the benefit of seeing ds teach
himself- -=-
I think it will help you move further faster if you revise this
thought to "I had already seen him learn to read."
He didn't need a teacher, not even himself.
http://sandradodd.com/wordswords
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I was just thinking about this today because on Monday someone complimented
Marti's reading skills. She is 8 (or will be in about 3 weeks) and I believe
she reads at or above her level (whatever that means), but really don't know
in honesty. I think the reason that I get this comment (Wow! She reads
really well for her age) is because she looks younger than she is (many
people think she is 6).
But the situation left me wondering what to say to someone that tells me
that she reads well. I know that "She taught herself" isn't "appropriate" if
you ask Sandra (lol), but with others outside the unschooling world, it
seems like the best answer I can come up with. A couple times it has sparked
a conversation and sometimes I hope the little things (like that or like
seeing the girls out and about with us during school hours or seeing that we
treat our girls like we love them instead of like they are burdens (which
happens a lot when you ride the city bus around here)) will enlighten
people. I don't know.
Anyway, I my point was that I was just exploring this theme today. Crazy how
that works, huh?
--
Amanda
http://whatmykidstaughtme.blogspot.com/
http://365daysofsparkle.blogspot.com
My "Working Toward Pro" Photographs
www.hopescreations.com
http://choose2bgr8.deviantart.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
diana jenner
On Thu, Jun 26, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Amanda Horein <horein@...> wrote:
*you* can :)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I know that "She taught herself" isn't "appropriate" ifHow about "she learned on her own" -- they can't tell the difference, but
> you ask Sandra (lol), but with others outside the unschooling world, it
> seems like the best answer I can come up with.
>
>
>
>
*you* can :)
--
~diana :)
xoxoxoxo
hannahbearski.blogspot.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I know that "She taught herself" isn't "appropriate" if
you ask Sandra (lol), but with others outside the unschooling world, it
seems like the best answer I can come up with. -=-
What about "She learned it gradually on her own, with just a little
bit of help" or We helped her when she asked, and she figured it out
on her own!"
-=-A couple times it has sparked a conversation and sometimes I hope
the little things (like that or like seeing the girls out and about
with us during school hours or seeing that we treat our girls like we
love them instead of like they are burdens (which happens a lot when
you ride the city bus around here)) will enlighten people. I don't
know.-=-
I bet it will, but maybe not the same day or the same week. Maybe
some of them will carry on as they are for ten years, and then
something else will remind them of what you said, or what they saw
you do.
I don't usually mind when something I've said lies dormant in someone
else until they discover a use for it, but with unschooling, when
people say "I'd like to do this," then I DO care. They need to do it
quickly or it will be too late.
-=-I know that "She taught herself" isn't "appropriate" if you ask
Sandra (lol),-=-
Yeah, I know. I'm kind of a bully about clarity. Instead of "sit
straight," I'm all "think straight!" And "Don't use RU--write it
out; say it full."
It's a curse, but I endure.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
you ask Sandra (lol), but with others outside the unschooling world, it
seems like the best answer I can come up with. -=-
What about "She learned it gradually on her own, with just a little
bit of help" or We helped her when she asked, and she figured it out
on her own!"
-=-A couple times it has sparked a conversation and sometimes I hope
the little things (like that or like seeing the girls out and about
with us during school hours or seeing that we treat our girls like we
love them instead of like they are burdens (which happens a lot when
you ride the city bus around here)) will enlighten people. I don't
know.-=-
I bet it will, but maybe not the same day or the same week. Maybe
some of them will carry on as they are for ten years, and then
something else will remind them of what you said, or what they saw
you do.
I don't usually mind when something I've said lies dormant in someone
else until they discover a use for it, but with unschooling, when
people say "I'd like to do this," then I DO care. They need to do it
quickly or it will be too late.
-=-I know that "She taught herself" isn't "appropriate" if you ask
Sandra (lol),-=-
Yeah, I know. I'm kind of a bully about clarity. Instead of "sit
straight," I'm all "think straight!" And "Don't use RU--write it
out; say it full."
It's a curse, but I endure.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Dietrick
> I don't usually mind when something I've said lies dormant in someoneIm talking to people here in italy (well writing, mostly) and we are
> else until they discover a use for it, but with unschooling, when
> people say "I'd like to do this," then I DO care. They need to do it
> quickly or it will be too late.
>
working on a website dedicated to mindful parenting. I have described
unschooling philosophy to them (I MUST translate the screw up page as
soon as possible) and it is so frustrating. THere are all these
families putting their little ones into nursery school (2 years, 3y)
and lamenting the fact that the schools are pushing against an slow
attachment orientd insertion ...most say they dont *have* to work but
that they must " grow up sometime" (a particular quote from one
recently)...
I feel so much pain for this time pressure thing...how can one get it
across effectively that children are children for such a small amount
of time? Not every one has 7 kids...one child is small for such a
short time. what are 10 15 years in the whole scheme of things?...A
whole life for a child, but for me, Im forty five this year and it
doesnt even seem like enough time yet (luckily ive got more littlies,
lol)...
melissa
in italy
mamma of 7
Cameron Parham
Melissa quotes parents of toddlers in preschool: "they (kids) must " grow up sometime." I hate that comment. We all have to die one day, too. So should we "just go ahead since we have to sometime"? Argh! Cameron
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Melissa Dietrick
--- In [email protected], Cameron Parham <acsp2205@...>
wrote:
day, too. So should we "just go ahead since we have to sometime"?
Argh! Cameron
to herself as needing to grow up hense the need to stick to her part
time job... but i will take a peek later at the conversation...
mmmm
melissa
wrote:
>" grow up sometime." I hate that comment. We all have to die one
> Melissa quotes parents of toddlers in preschool: "they (kids) must
day, too. So should we "just go ahead since we have to sometime"?
Argh! Cameron
>oh, this makes me wonder: I remember thinking that she was referring
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
to herself as needing to grow up hense the need to stick to her part
time job... but i will take a peek later at the conversation...
mmmm
melissa
Ed Wendell
Oh I love that come back - I'll have to remember it ;) It could come in handy for all sorts of snide "we all have to someday" comments coming my way.
Lisa W.
We all have to die one day, too. So should we "just go ahead since we have to sometime"? Argh! Cameron
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa W.
We all have to die one day, too. So should we "just go ahead since we have to sometime"? Argh! Cameron
.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-We all have to die one day, too. So should we "just go ahead since
we have to sometime"? Argh! Cameron-=-
One day when I was a young adult and my mom was living with us (me,
my first husband, his young brother and sister and my half brother) I
asked her to help me do something. It wasn't big or awful--some
housekeeping thing, I think.
Probably jittery from needing a drink and being stuck too far to walk
to the bar, she said something like "Someday I'll be dead and I won't
be here to help you, so just act like I'm not here," or some such.
I was already to the point that I kinda wished she was dead, before
she could do any more damage to my little brother.
Possibly she was brain damaged. Certainly she was traumatized and
malnourished as a kid. I could either let her early trauma and
alcoholism take me down, and my kids too, or I could step away from
her and raise my kids with very little of her presence, which is what
I did.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
we have to sometime"? Argh! Cameron-=-
One day when I was a young adult and my mom was living with us (me,
my first husband, his young brother and sister and my half brother) I
asked her to help me do something. It wasn't big or awful--some
housekeeping thing, I think.
Probably jittery from needing a drink and being stuck too far to walk
to the bar, she said something like "Someday I'll be dead and I won't
be here to help you, so just act like I'm not here," or some such.
I was already to the point that I kinda wished she was dead, before
she could do any more damage to my little brother.
Possibly she was brain damaged. Certainly she was traumatized and
malnourished as a kid. I could either let her early trauma and
alcoholism take me down, and my kids too, or I could step away from
her and raise my kids with very little of her presence, which is what
I did.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Rod Thomas
I was curious where all that came from cause I thought she was talking about
toddlers having to grow up sometime. But that's pretty heavy. So how did
that all work out for your family? How did your mom handle it?
kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] talking to others (was: teaching to read
-=-We all have to die one day, too. So should we "just go ahead since
we have to sometime"? Argh! Cameron-=-
One day when I was a young adult and my mom was living with us (me,
my first husband, his young brother and sister and my half brother) I
asked her to help me do something. It wasn't big or awful--some
housekeeping thing, I think.
Probably jittery from needing a drink and being stuck too far to walk
to the bar, she said something like "Someday I'll be dead and I won't
be here to help you, so just act like I'm not here," or some such.
I was already to the point that I kinda wished she was dead, before
she could do any more damage to my little brother.
Possibly she was brain damaged. Certainly she was traumatized and
malnourished as a kid. I could either let her early trauma and
alcoholism take me down, and my kids too, or I could step away from
her and raise my kids with very little of her presence, which is what
I did.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
toddlers having to grow up sometime. But that's pretty heavy. So how did
that all work out for your family? How did your mom handle it?
kathy
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On Behalf Of Sandra Dodd
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2008 7:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] talking to others (was: teaching to read
-=-We all have to die one day, too. So should we "just go ahead since
we have to sometime"? Argh! Cameron-=-
One day when I was a young adult and my mom was living with us (me,
my first husband, his young brother and sister and my half brother) I
asked her to help me do something. It wasn't big or awful--some
housekeeping thing, I think.
Probably jittery from needing a drink and being stuck too far to walk
to the bar, she said something like "Someday I'll be dead and I won't
be here to help you, so just act like I'm not here," or some such.
I was already to the point that I kinda wished she was dead, before
she could do any more damage to my little brother.
Possibly she was brain damaged. Certainly she was traumatized and
malnourished as a kid. I could either let her early trauma and
alcoholism take me down, and my kids too, or I could step away from
her and raise my kids with very little of her presence, which is what
I did.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=But that's pretty heavy. So how did
that all work out for your family? How did your mom handle it? -=-
She was relieved, overall. My kids "made her nervous." There were
some spans of time when she wasn't drinking and I kinda tried to make
up for lost time with her, but when she was drinking it was easy for
me to distance quickly.
It wasn't always easy, but Al-Anon had/has an Adult Children of
Alcoholics program and I was going weekly for about four years. It
made a big difference in my life, and along with La Leche League, I
think that's why my kids' baby years were so peaceful. I made their
peace and comfort a priority, and it led to all this other business:
Kirby's up for a promotion (at a real job, at 21), Marty is buying a
Jeep, and Holly spent the afternoon with her boyfriend's mom (and the
boyfriend was there, but I understand that much of the interaction
was between Holly and the mom).
My kids are strong and centered and good and unaccustomed to the
sorts of dysfunctional nonsense I and a badillion others accepted as
inevitable or normal (or worse; as our fault).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that all work out for your family? How did your mom handle it? -=-
She was relieved, overall. My kids "made her nervous." There were
some spans of time when she wasn't drinking and I kinda tried to make
up for lost time with her, but when she was drinking it was easy for
me to distance quickly.
It wasn't always easy, but Al-Anon had/has an Adult Children of
Alcoholics program and I was going weekly for about four years. It
made a big difference in my life, and along with La Leche League, I
think that's why my kids' baby years were so peaceful. I made their
peace and comfort a priority, and it led to all this other business:
Kirby's up for a promotion (at a real job, at 21), Marty is buying a
Jeep, and Holly spent the afternoon with her boyfriend's mom (and the
boyfriend was there, but I understand that much of the interaction
was between Holly and the mom).
My kids are strong and centered and good and unaccustomed to the
sorts of dysfunctional nonsense I and a badillion others accepted as
inevitable or normal (or worse; as our fault).
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-but when she was drinking it was easy for
me to distance quickly.
It wasn't always easy, but Al-Anon had/has an Adult Children of
Alcoholics program -=-
I meant to mean this:
It wasn't easy for me before the Al-Anon years, when I learned lots
of simple things that helped me be a better mom. A better person,
but I started just before I got pregnant with Kirby and went until
Marty was walking (that particular meeting group dissolved or I
would've kept going).
That's the time during which I decided (and have written a couple of
times) that I was going to be my children's mother, and not my
mother's daughter.
Dysfunctional families keep adults in child-roles in emotionally
crippling ways. Childless adults can afford to be cripples more than
parents can. The behaviors of alcoholics, and the results of
alcoholism can go to the third generation even if the parents didn't
drink. There are crazy ideas that people live with and pass on.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
me to distance quickly.
It wasn't always easy, but Al-Anon had/has an Adult Children of
Alcoholics program -=-
I meant to mean this:
It wasn't easy for me before the Al-Anon years, when I learned lots
of simple things that helped me be a better mom. A better person,
but I started just before I got pregnant with Kirby and went until
Marty was walking (that particular meeting group dissolved or I
would've kept going).
That's the time during which I decided (and have written a couple of
times) that I was going to be my children's mother, and not my
mother's daughter.
Dysfunctional families keep adults in child-roles in emotionally
crippling ways. Childless adults can afford to be cripples more than
parents can. The behaviors of alcoholics, and the results of
alcoholism can go to the third generation even if the parents didn't
drink. There are crazy ideas that people live with and pass on.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
Years ago some guy said Americans (and I think this category is too narrow
but America is what he knows) infantilize their children for as long as
possible no matter how stupid it makes them or how bad it gets. I didn't
take what he said as the "truth" but as soon as he said it, I felt there was
something right about what he was saying. I had just never heard it said
that way before.
There are pockets of loyalty in many people's lives devoted to the shrine of
their parents, to the exclusion of their own family.
I think it's based on false ideas of scarcity: that love, loyalty, and so
forth has to be portioned hierarchically and not shared around.
~Katherine
but America is what he knows) infantilize their children for as long as
possible no matter how stupid it makes them or how bad it gets. I didn't
take what he said as the "truth" but as soon as he said it, I felt there was
something right about what he was saying. I had just never heard it said
that way before.
There are pockets of loyalty in many people's lives devoted to the shrine of
their parents, to the exclusion of their own family.
I think it's based on false ideas of scarcity: that love, loyalty, and so
forth has to be portioned hierarchically and not shared around.
~Katherine
On 6/29/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-but when she was drinking it was easy for
> me to distance quickly.
>
> It wasn't always easy, but Al-Anon had/has an Adult Children of
> Alcoholics program -=-
>
> I meant to mean this:
>
> It wasn't easy for me before the Al-Anon years, when I learned lots
> of simple things that helped me be a better mom. A better person,
> but I started just before I got pregnant with Kirby and went until
> Marty was walking (that particular meeting group dissolved or I
> would've kept going).
>
> That's the time during which I decided (and have written a couple of
> times) that I was going to be my children's mother, and not my
> mother's daughter.
>
> Dysfunctional families keep adults in child-roles in emotionally
> crippling ways. Childless adults can afford to be cripples more than
> parents can. The behaviors of alcoholics, and the results of
> alcoholism can go to the third generation even if the parents didn't
> drink. There are crazy ideas that people live with and pass on.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/2008 10:21:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Sandra@... writes:
That's the time during which I decided (and have written a couple of
times) that I was going to be my children's mother, and not my
mother's daughter.
Dysfunctional families keep adults in child-roles in emotionally
crippling ways. Childless adults can afford to be cripples more than
parents can. The behaviors of alcoholics, and the results of
alcoholism can go to the third generation even if the parents didn't
drink. There are crazy ideas that people live with and pass on.
Strange how "natural parenting" can seem so unnatural when you've grown up
without it. It often feels lame or contrived when I take a different tac
(tack?) with my kids than was taken by my parents with me. I was shamed and mocked
for crying out loud, so it seems odd and unnatural for me to reach my arms
out in comfort to my older child when he is crying. Although, the more I do it,
the less "odd" it feels. Hopefully, it doesn't feel forced to *him*. Most of
how I relate to my kids (in a respectful way when Dave and I came to it)
began with an obvious pause before I reacted or said something-*very*
unnatural-feeling! Slowly, incrementally, almost unnoticeably, that pause gets
shorter. Occasionally, I'll react without thinking first! It is a cause for
celebration within myself when I realize it later on.
I didn't realize how "tiny" my steps would be when I started down this
gentle, respectful parenting path. I wanted to "get it" so quickly... I was
wanting to take huge leaps, looking for big, neon road signs.... It isn't until
I've slightly veered off the main path and traveled a ways that I turn in
frustration to look back and am surprised how the slight angle and tiny steps away
from that main path have brought me so far! I'm not quite sure when I ended
up in this part of the world, since the change of scenery has been so gradual,
but it is wonderful to be here.
Peace,
De
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra@... writes:
That's the time during which I decided (and have written a couple of
times) that I was going to be my children's mother, and not my
mother's daughter.
Dysfunctional families keep adults in child-roles in emotionally
crippling ways. Childless adults can afford to be cripples more than
parents can. The behaviors of alcoholics, and the results of
alcoholism can go to the third generation even if the parents didn't
drink. There are crazy ideas that people live with and pass on.
Strange how "natural parenting" can seem so unnatural when you've grown up
without it. It often feels lame or contrived when I take a different tac
(tack?) with my kids than was taken by my parents with me. I was shamed and mocked
for crying out loud, so it seems odd and unnatural for me to reach my arms
out in comfort to my older child when he is crying. Although, the more I do it,
the less "odd" it feels. Hopefully, it doesn't feel forced to *him*. Most of
how I relate to my kids (in a respectful way when Dave and I came to it)
began with an obvious pause before I reacted or said something-*very*
unnatural-feeling! Slowly, incrementally, almost unnoticeably, that pause gets
shorter. Occasionally, I'll react without thinking first! It is a cause for
celebration within myself when I realize it later on.
I didn't realize how "tiny" my steps would be when I started down this
gentle, respectful parenting path. I wanted to "get it" so quickly... I was
wanting to take huge leaps, looking for big, neon road signs.... It isn't until
I've slightly veered off the main path and traveled a ways that I turn in
frustration to look back and am surprised how the slight angle and tiny steps away
from that main path have brought me so far! I'm not quite sure when I ended
up in this part of the world, since the change of scenery has been so gradual,
but it is wonderful to be here.
Peace,
De
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nancy Wooton
On Jun 29, 2008, at 9:18 AM, Sanguinegirl83@... wrote:
then tack the other way. I know very little about sailing, but picked
that up watching the America's Cup on TV years ago. My first thought
in response to "tack" is the equipment used on horses. I've recently
introduced two riding students to the word "bight," which applies in
both riding and sailing; in sailing, it's a loop of rope not at the
end, and in riding, it's the slack loop of reins between the rider's
hands.
None of us will be able to read this list on Learn Nothing Day if we
hope to learn nothing.
Nancy
> I take a different tacTack. It's from sailing -- boats travel with the wind one direction,
> (tack?)
then tack the other way. I know very little about sailing, but picked
that up watching the America's Cup on TV years ago. My first thought
in response to "tack" is the equipment used on horses. I've recently
introduced two riding students to the word "bight," which applies in
both riding and sailing; in sailing, it's a loop of rope not at the
end, and in riding, it's the slack loop of reins between the rider's
hands.
None of us will be able to read this list on Learn Nothing Day if we
hope to learn nothing.
Nancy
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/2008 1:36:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
nancywooton@... writes:
<<<None of us will be able to read this list on Learn Nothing Day if we
hope to learn nothing.>>>
I was just thinking that very thing while I was reading your post. If we
write on this list on Learn Nothing Day, will we be guilty of contributing to
other's deliquency of learning? Heck, for that matter, I learn a lot about
myself when I write...
Peace,
De
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nancywooton@... writes:
<<<None of us will be able to read this list on Learn Nothing Day if we
hope to learn nothing.>>>
I was just thinking that very thing while I was reading your post. If we
write on this list on Learn Nothing Day, will we be guilty of contributing to
other's deliquency of learning? Heck, for that matter, I learn a lot about
myself when I write...
Peace,
De
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> Strange how "natural parenting" can seem so unnatural when you'vegrown up
> without it. It often feels lame or contrived when I take a differenttac
> (tack?) with my kids than was taken by my parents with me.It's tack. It comes from "tacking", which is changing directions
against the wind when you are sailing. I think its a good word.
>I was
> I didn't realize how "tiny" my steps would be when I started down this
> gentle, respectful parenting path. I wanted to "get it" so quickly...
> wanting to take huge leaps, looking for big, neon road signs.... Itisn't until
> I've slightly veered off the main path and traveled a ways that I turnin
> frustration to look back and am surprised how the slight angle andtiny steps away
> from that main path have brought me so far! I'm not quite sure when Iended
> up in this part of the world, since the change of scenery has been sogradual,
> but it is wonderful to be here.All of those decision, or paths, could be a changing of direction or
"tacking". Going against the wind, or mainstream parenting, or our
learned behavior, its more difficult at first and presents challenges.
Tacking is fun though, once you get the hang of it. It involves a back
and forth movement, like for instance in a river you'd go from bank to
bank almost, all while going in a direction against the wind. So really
you get to explore a lot more water and scenery. It makes the smooth
sailing with the wind even more rewarding and pleasurable.
I liked the analogy that you put into my head without even realizing it!
Jenny C
>I hadn't read you comment until after I wrote mine! I'm willing to bet
> Tack. It's from sailing -- boats travel with the wind one direction,
> then tack the other way. I know very little about sailing, but picked
> that up watching the America's Cup on TV years ago. My first thought
> in response to "tack" is the equipment used on horses. I've recently
> introduced two riding students to the word "bight," which applies in
> both riding and sailing; in sailing, it's a loop of rope not at the
> end, and in riding, it's the slack loop of reins between the rider's
> hands.
>
> None of us will be able to read this list on Learn Nothing Day if we
> hope to learn nothing.
>
> Nancy
>
that the word bight for horses or sailing came from the same place to
get similar meaning. I'm amazed sometimes at how much of our everyday
language and thought has come from sailing and horses. I guess because
both were so integral to life for so many years.
Sandra Dodd
-=-If we
write on this list on Learn Nothing Day, will we be guilty of
contributing to
other's deliquency of learning? -=-
"Guilt"?
What's with this list and "guilt" lately?
If you dangle an interesting historical tidbit that you already know
about, nobody else is forced to glean anything from your recitation
of something you already knew.
People have about 24 days left to shed that guilt.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
write on this list on Learn Nothing Day, will we be guilty of
contributing to
other's deliquency of learning? -=-
"Guilt"?
What's with this list and "guilt" lately?
If you dangle an interesting historical tidbit that you already know
about, nobody else is forced to glean anything from your recitation
of something you already knew.
People have about 24 days left to shed that guilt.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
It only takes about 24 seconds to diffuse guilt.
Decide to be happy about decisions to change.
Let go of ideas about wrongness since "mis"takes are simply learning takes
(as Kelly Lovejoy calls them).
Here's your Certificate of Empowerment ... http://sandradodd.com/empowerment
The point of Learn Nothing Day is to prove something along the lines that it
ain't possible not to learn. Have fun with it.
~Katherine
Decide to be happy about decisions to change.
Let go of ideas about wrongness since "mis"takes are simply learning takes
(as Kelly Lovejoy calls them).
Here's your Certificate of Empowerment ... http://sandradodd.com/empowerment
The point of Learn Nothing Day is to prove something along the lines that it
ain't possible not to learn. Have fun with it.
~Katherine
On 6/29/08, Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-If we
> write on this list on Learn Nothing Day, will we be guilty of
> contributing to
> other's deliquency of learning? -=-
>
> "Guilt"?
>
> What's with this list and "guilt" lately?
>
> If you dangle an interesting historical tidbit that you already know
> about, nobody else is forced to glean anything from your recitation
> of something you already knew.
>
> People have about 24 days left to shed that guilt.
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Helen Cain
>I'm willing to betBight means:
>that the word bight for horses or sailing came from the same place to
>get similar meaning. I'm amazed sometimes at how much of our everyday
>language and thought has come from sailing and horses. I guess because
>both were so integral to life for so many years.
1. the part of a rope between the ends.
2. the loop or bent part of a rope, as distinguished from the ends.
3. an inward bend or curve in the shore of a sea or a river.
4. a body of water bounded by such a bend; a bay.
I first learnt it on the context of knots, tying a bowline on a bight
-- in the middle of a rope rather than at the end. I just learnt it
for fun, (the knot, I mean) but it's easy to see how it would be so
important to boats and horses, both of those using rope and knots.
Here in Australia most people would first learn it in the phrase "the
Great Australian Bight", which is the name of the long curve of the
southern coast of Australia, as in meanings 3 and 4 above. Many
confuse that with "bite", I guess thinking it may have been named
that because one could imagine a huge bite taken out of that coast by
a gigantic sea-monster. <g>
On early maps, there would often be a part of the northern or western
coast of Australia marked, and then the inscription "Here be dragons"
across the unknown area.
Cheers
Helen in Melbourne, Australia
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/29/2008 1:50:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Sanguinegirl83@... writes:
<<<If we
write on this list on Learn Nothing Day, will we be guilty of contributing
to
other's deliquency of learning?>>>
Sorry, my fault. I neglected to add <g> or :~) to indicate I was joking.
Another example of how clarity is important!
Peace,
De
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sanguinegirl83@... writes:
<<<If we
write on this list on Learn Nothing Day, will we be guilty of contributing
to
other's deliquency of learning?>>>
Sorry, my fault. I neglected to add <g> or :~) to indicate I was joking.
Another example of how clarity is important!
Peace,
De
**************Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for
fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut00050000000007)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
k
I've read bight in reference to water somewhere in all the books and stories
I've taken in. I have no idea where I read it now. That's where I
categorized it... water. Now I have bend in the water. :) I wonder if it
is at all akin to "bright?"
~Katherine
I've taken in. I have no idea where I read it now. That's where I
categorized it... water. Now I have bend in the water. :) I wonder if it
is at all akin to "bright?"
~Katherine
On 6/29/08, Helen Cain <hfcain@...> wrote:
>
>
> >I'm willing to bet
> >that the word bight for horses or sailing came from the same place to
> >get similar meaning. I'm amazed sometimes at how much of our everyday
> >language and thought has come from sailing and horses. I guess because
> >both were so integral to life for so many years.
>
> Bight means:
> 1. the part of a rope between the ends.
> 2. the loop or bent part of a rope, as distinguished from the ends.
> 3. an inward bend or curve in the shore of a sea or a river.
> 4. a body of water bounded by such a bend; a bay.
>
> I first learnt it on the context of knots, tying a bowline on a bight
> -- in the middle of a rope rather than at the end. I just learnt it
> for fun, (the knot, I mean) but it's easy to see how it would be so
> important to boats and horses, both of those using rope and knots.
>
> Here in Australia most people would first learn it in the phrase "the
> Great Australian Bight", which is the name of the long curve of the
> southern coast of Australia, as in meanings 3 and 4 above. Many
> confuse that with "bite", I guess thinking it may have been named
> that because one could imagine a huge bite taken out of that coast by
> a gigantic sea-monster. <g>
>
> On early maps, there would often be a part of the northern or western
> coast of Australia marked, and then the inscription "Here be dragons"
> across the unknown area.
>
> Cheers
> Helen in Melbourne, Australia
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joanna
>There are pockets of loyalty in many people's lives devoted to the shrine ofWow--I can feel that this is a comment I will be chewing on for a while. I knew a woman whose brand new MIL went on their honeymoon and insisted on being treated as the guest of honor. On the HONEYMOON! She seemed to be there to ensure that she got the biggest share of love and loyalty from her son. Scary stuff!
>their parents, to the exclusion of their own family.
>
>I think it's based on false ideas of scarcity: that love, loyalty, and so
>forth has to be portioned hierarchically and not shared around.
>
That's a pretty dramatic story, but I think this dynamic plays out on a smaller scale in a lot of families. I think that unschooling offers the best possibility I've seen so far to create harmonious relationships based on things like enjoyment, respect and thoughfulness instead of scarcity, guilt and obligation.
Joanna