Teaching how to read
hollywoodapi
I have two boys, 8 and 6 years old. Both have been unschooled from
birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
numbers at the same time. They were at it so intensly - it was
fascinating to see how they figured it out and continuosly reinforced
what they learnt, so they would not forget it! M
Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have been
asking me to teach him how to read. I taught myself how to read when
I was 4! Nobody taught me how to read. I was secretly hoping the
boys will learn how to read themselves. That not being the case and
since the little one is asking for help, can you please give me
guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
read. I am not a bit in a rush. Although he might have a different
schedule.
Thank you in advance.
Kind regards,
Anna
Miami - Florida
birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
numbers at the same time. They were at it so intensly - it was
fascinating to see how they figured it out and continuosly reinforced
what they learnt, so they would not forget it! M
Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have been
asking me to teach him how to read. I taught myself how to read when
I was 4! Nobody taught me how to read. I was secretly hoping the
boys will learn how to read themselves. That not being the case and
since the little one is asking for help, can you please give me
guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
read. I am not a bit in a rush. Although he might have a different
schedule.
Thank you in advance.
Kind regards,
Anna
Miami - Florida
J Geller
We did lots of reading games to help my son. He desperately wanted to learn to read but has some issues that run in my family. My brother and I had both been labeled dyslexic and had gotten special help, back in the sixties and seventies. We were the only ones who were allowed to read anything we wanted, because the specialists told my mother that she had to let us choose the reading material. Out of five kids, the two dyslexics are voracious readers and the others don't read. It is wild.
My older two sons picked up reading from being read to and from getting to read what they wanted but it was clear that my youngest one needed help because he really wanted to read. I hate and detest reading out loud and don't do it well. I am fine with little kiddy books that are fun and interesting but can't read chapter books out loud. I don't know if it a hang over from my dyslexia (along with the fact that I am the world's worst speller) but it is really hard for me. Anyway, I needed to help my youngest and we found some great options.
We started off playing fun games like labeling items in the house with their names on sticky notes and then matching the names to cards. Kind of like a scavenger hunt and very active. So he would have a card and go find the sticky note with the word on it and then figure out what it was. He started figuring out words quicker and quicker. As soon as he mastered something and the game got boring, we would change it. He still loves to have me hide clues around as a hunt. Now I will describe something or make a riddle to figure out what it is and find the next clue. He loves doing them for friends and for me and will type them up on the computer. It is cute to see him go back and do easier versions for little kids.
He also liked a game where I would put words on cards on the ground in front of him. He would jump to the word. We would also spread them out in a grid and I would say a word and he would jump to it etc. I would start by saying the word and pointing to it. He would read the word and jump to it. Then I would say the word without pointing. etc.
Another favorite was short sentences on cards that he would act out. "I can pat the cat. I can give mom a kiss. I can sit. I can stand. I can hop. I can jump." etc We would do individual words in the 'jump to' game and then put them together. I would guess the sentence from what he would do. He would hand me the card after I guessed to make sure that he read the correct one. Of course, sometimes I would take the first turn etc.
His older brothers always loved getting in on the games so sometimes they would go first to help demonstrate.
He actually liked the Explode the Code workbook series. We did it together and he only did the fun pages that he wanted to do but it made a huge difference. After the first 2 books, he then started reading from the books that he liked to have read to him. I never had him read out loud but would sit next to him. When he had a word that he couldn't read, he would tap it and I would say the word. Now I will sometimes start new books for him until he gets a feel for them.
Let me know if these appeal and if you want other similar ideas.
Jae
Redmond, WA
From: hollywoodapi
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Teaching how to read
I have two boys, 8 and 6 years old. Both have been unschooled from
birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
numbers at the same time. They were at it so intensly - it was
fascinating to see how they figured it out and continuosly reinforced
what they learnt, so they would not forget it! M
Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have been
asking me to teach him how to read. I taught myself how to read when
I was 4! Nobody taught me how to read. I was secretly hoping the
boys will learn how to read themselves. That not being the case and
since the little one is asking for help, can you please give me
guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
read. I am not a bit in a rush. Although he might have a different
schedule.
Thank you in advance.
Kind regards,
Anna
Miami - Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My older two sons picked up reading from being read to and from getting to read what they wanted but it was clear that my youngest one needed help because he really wanted to read. I hate and detest reading out loud and don't do it well. I am fine with little kiddy books that are fun and interesting but can't read chapter books out loud. I don't know if it a hang over from my dyslexia (along with the fact that I am the world's worst speller) but it is really hard for me. Anyway, I needed to help my youngest and we found some great options.
We started off playing fun games like labeling items in the house with their names on sticky notes and then matching the names to cards. Kind of like a scavenger hunt and very active. So he would have a card and go find the sticky note with the word on it and then figure out what it was. He started figuring out words quicker and quicker. As soon as he mastered something and the game got boring, we would change it. He still loves to have me hide clues around as a hunt. Now I will describe something or make a riddle to figure out what it is and find the next clue. He loves doing them for friends and for me and will type them up on the computer. It is cute to see him go back and do easier versions for little kids.
He also liked a game where I would put words on cards on the ground in front of him. He would jump to the word. We would also spread them out in a grid and I would say a word and he would jump to it etc. I would start by saying the word and pointing to it. He would read the word and jump to it. Then I would say the word without pointing. etc.
Another favorite was short sentences on cards that he would act out. "I can pat the cat. I can give mom a kiss. I can sit. I can stand. I can hop. I can jump." etc We would do individual words in the 'jump to' game and then put them together. I would guess the sentence from what he would do. He would hand me the card after I guessed to make sure that he read the correct one. Of course, sometimes I would take the first turn etc.
His older brothers always loved getting in on the games so sometimes they would go first to help demonstrate.
He actually liked the Explode the Code workbook series. We did it together and he only did the fun pages that he wanted to do but it made a huge difference. After the first 2 books, he then started reading from the books that he liked to have read to him. I never had him read out loud but would sit next to him. When he had a word that he couldn't read, he would tap it and I would say the word. Now I will sometimes start new books for him until he gets a feel for them.
Let me know if these appeal and if you want other similar ideas.
Jae
Redmond, WA
From: hollywoodapi
Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Teaching how to read
I have two boys, 8 and 6 years old. Both have been unschooled from
birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
numbers at the same time. They were at it so intensly - it was
fascinating to see how they figured it out and continuosly reinforced
what they learnt, so they would not forget it! M
Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have been
asking me to teach him how to read. I taught myself how to read when
I was 4! Nobody taught me how to read. I was secretly hoping the
boys will learn how to read themselves. That not being the case and
since the little one is asking for help, can you please give me
guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
read. I am not a bit in a rush. Although he might have a different
schedule.
Thank you in advance.
Kind regards,
Anna
Miami - Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
celines sanchez
Since my daughter was 2 1/2 she 's been watching the leapfrog videos, Letter factory and Talking words factory, I got fustrated last year trying to teach her phonics even though she knew the letter sounds she learned from the videos she just wasn't interested ,so I decided to leave it alone at least until this year when she will be in kindergartner, but a few months ago she started to read 3 letter words all by herself, it seem to be that some kids learn certain things when they feel like at least that is the way my daughter learn so I will just follow her clues and let her thrive at her own pace.
Celines
Massachusetts
Celines
Massachusetts
--- On Tue, 6/24/08, hollywoodapi <anna@...> wrote:
From: hollywoodapi <anna@...>
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Teaching how to read
To: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 8:23 PM
I have two boys, 8 and 6 years old. Both have been unschooled from
birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
numbers at the same time. They were at it so intensly - it was
fascinating to see how they figured it out and continuosly reinforced
what they learnt, so they would not forget it! M
Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have been
asking me to teach him how to read. I taught myself how to read when
I was 4! Nobody taught me how to read. I was secretly hoping the
boys will learn how to read themselves. That not being the case and
since the little one is asking for help, can you please give me
guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
read. I am not a bit in a rush. Although he might have a different
schedule.
Thank you in advance.
Kind regards,
Anna
Miami - Florida
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mica
With my oldest when he was four I played with a set of alphabet flash cards
and he learned the letters of the alphabet, and I think alphabetical order
from the song, and then he learned to read from whole word recognition
beginning with a book I read to him which had certain words repeating (and I
had been pointing to the words as I read). He started recognising CAT in
other words and then his name and titles from computer games or TV shows and
I don't remember the rest, except writing or spelling the words he asked me
to.
My youngest learned to write the letters of his name and a couple of others
when he was around 5 I guess, and then little else except some game title,
and function (PLAY, EXIT) or name recognition until he was around 8 and
wanted to do something more concentrated to learn to read. Actually I guess
for some time he had been picking up some common words when I or his older
brother would type or spell for him the messages he wanted to send in games,
or perhaps from some pointing when reading together I don't remember. Then
I began studying with him for maybe five minutes a day from a couple of
phonics books that demonstrated different combinations of letters that
create the same sounds and gave pictures and words using the different
combinations. Within two months he was happily independently typing to
others in his online games and reading whatever he likes.
The books we 'studied' (a new page and refresh some old pages a day) were
The Dorling-Kindersley Phonics book
http://www.librarything.com/work/4602176/book/24868645 and one I picked up
from an op-shop for A50cents
http://www.librarything.com/work/details/4657373
and he learned the letters of the alphabet, and I think alphabetical order
from the song, and then he learned to read from whole word recognition
beginning with a book I read to him which had certain words repeating (and I
had been pointing to the words as I read). He started recognising CAT in
other words and then his name and titles from computer games or TV shows and
I don't remember the rest, except writing or spelling the words he asked me
to.
My youngest learned to write the letters of his name and a couple of others
when he was around 5 I guess, and then little else except some game title,
and function (PLAY, EXIT) or name recognition until he was around 8 and
wanted to do something more concentrated to learn to read. Actually I guess
for some time he had been picking up some common words when I or his older
brother would type or spell for him the messages he wanted to send in games,
or perhaps from some pointing when reading together I don't remember. Then
I began studying with him for maybe five minutes a day from a couple of
phonics books that demonstrated different combinations of letters that
create the same sounds and gave pictures and words using the different
combinations. Within two months he was happily independently typing to
others in his online games and reading whatever he likes.
The books we 'studied' (a new page and refresh some old pages a day) were
The Dorling-Kindersley Phonics book
http://www.librarything.com/work/4602176/book/24868645 and one I picked up
from an op-shop for A50cents
http://www.librarything.com/work/details/4657373
On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:23 AM, hollywoodapi <anna@...> wrote:
> I have two boys, 8 and 6 years old. Both have been unschooled from
> birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
> numbers at the same time. They were at it so intensly - it was
> fascinating to see how they figured it out and continuosly reinforced
> what they learnt, so they would not forget it! M
>
> Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
> completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
> writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have been
> asking me to teach him how to read. I taught myself how to read when
> I was 4! Nobody taught me how to read. I was secretly hoping the
> boys will learn how to read themselves. That not being the case and
> since the little one is asking for help, can you please give me
> guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
> read. I am not a bit in a rush. Although he might have a different
> schedule.
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Kind regards,
> Anna
> Miami - Florida
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hollywoodapi
Jae,
These ideas sound great! Any other ideas you have would be great!
I really appreciate it!!!
Kind regards,
Anna
--- In [email protected], "J Geller" <gellerjh@...>
wrote:
brother and I had both been labeled dyslexic and had gotten special
help, back in the sixties and seventies. We were the only ones who
were allowed to read anything we wanted, because the specialists told
my mother that she had to let us choose the reading material. Out of
five kids, the two dyslexics are voracious readers and the others
don't read. It is wild.
one needed help because he really wanted to read. I hate and detest
reading out loud and don't do it well. I am fine with little kiddy
books that are fun and interesting but can't read chapter books out
loud. I don't know if it a hang over from my dyslexia (along with the
fact that I am the world's worst speller) but it is really hard for
me. Anyway, I needed to help my youngest and we found some great
options.
cards. Kind of like a scavenger hunt and very active. So he would
have a card and go find the sticky note with the word on it and then
figure out what it was. He started figuring out words quicker and
quicker. As soon as he mastered something and the game got boring, we
would change it. He still loves to have me hide clues around as a
hunt. Now I will describe something or make a riddle to figure out
what it is and find the next clue. He loves doing them for friends
and for me and will type them up on the computer. It is cute to see
him go back and do easier versions for little kids.
out in a grid and I would say a word and he would jump to it etc. I
would start by saying the word and pointing to it. He would read the
word and jump to it. Then I would say the word without pointing. etc.
stand. I can hop. I can jump." etc We would do individual words in
the 'jump to' game and then put them together. I would guess the
sentence from what he would do. He would hand me the card after I
guessed to make sure that he read the correct one. Of course,
sometimes I would take the first turn etc.
made a huge difference. After the first 2 books, he then started
reading from the books that he liked to have read to him. I never had
him read out loud but would sit next to him. When he had a word that
he couldn't read, he would tap it and I would say the word. Now I
will sometimes start new books for him until he gets a feel for them.
These ideas sound great! Any other ideas you have would be great!
I really appreciate it!!!
Kind regards,
Anna
--- In [email protected], "J Geller" <gellerjh@...>
wrote:
>to learn to read but has some issues that run in my family. My
> We did lots of reading games to help my son. He desperately wanted
brother and I had both been labeled dyslexic and had gotten special
help, back in the sixties and seventies. We were the only ones who
were allowed to read anything we wanted, because the specialists told
my mother that she had to let us choose the reading material. Out of
five kids, the two dyslexics are voracious readers and the others
don't read. It is wild.
>getting to read what they wanted but it was clear that my youngest
> My older two sons picked up reading from being read to and from
one needed help because he really wanted to read. I hate and detest
reading out loud and don't do it well. I am fine with little kiddy
books that are fun and interesting but can't read chapter books out
loud. I don't know if it a hang over from my dyslexia (along with the
fact that I am the world's worst speller) but it is really hard for
me. Anyway, I needed to help my youngest and we found some great
options.
>with their names on sticky notes and then matching the names to
> We started off playing fun games like labeling items in the house
cards. Kind of like a scavenger hunt and very active. So he would
have a card and go find the sticky note with the word on it and then
figure out what it was. He started figuring out words quicker and
quicker. As soon as he mastered something and the game got boring, we
would change it. He still loves to have me hide clues around as a
hunt. Now I will describe something or make a riddle to figure out
what it is and find the next clue. He loves doing them for friends
and for me and will type them up on the computer. It is cute to see
him go back and do easier versions for little kids.
>in front of him. He would jump to the word. We would also spread them
> He also liked a game where I would put words on cards on the ground
out in a grid and I would say a word and he would jump to it etc. I
would start by saying the word and pointing to it. He would read the
word and jump to it. Then I would say the word without pointing. etc.
>out. "I can pat the cat. I can give mom a kiss. I can sit. I can
> Another favorite was short sentences on cards that he would act
stand. I can hop. I can jump." etc We would do individual words in
the 'jump to' game and then put them together. I would guess the
sentence from what he would do. He would hand me the card after I
guessed to make sure that he read the correct one. Of course,
sometimes I would take the first turn etc.
>sometimes they would go first to help demonstrate.
> His older brothers always loved getting in on the games so
>together and he only did the fun pages that he wanted to do but it
> He actually liked the Explode the Code workbook series. We did it
made a huge difference. After the first 2 books, he then started
reading from the books that he liked to have read to him. I never had
him read out loud but would sit next to him. When he had a word that
he couldn't read, he would tap it and I would say the word. Now I
will sometimes start new books for him until he gets a feel for them.
>reinforced
> Let me know if these appeal and if you want other similar ideas.
> Jae
> Redmond, WA
>
>
>
>
> From: hollywoodapi
> Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 5:23 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Teaching how to read
>
>
> I have two boys, 8 and 6 years old. Both have been unschooled from
> birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
> numbers at the same time. They were at it so intensly - it was
> fascinating to see how they figured it out and continuosly
> what they learnt, so they would not forget it! Mbeen
>
> Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
> completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
> writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have
> asking me to teach him how to read. I taught myself how to readwhen
> I was 4! Nobody taught me how to read. I was secretly hoping the
> boys will learn how to read themselves. That not being the case and
> since the little one is asking for help, can you please give me
> guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
> read. I am not a bit in a rush. Although he might have a different
> schedule.
>
> Thank you in advance.
>
> Kind regards,
> Anna
> Miami - Florida
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Jenny C
> I have two boys, 8 and 6 years old. Both have been unschooled fromI'm confused! First you said they know how to read and then you said
> birth. Last summer they both mastered reading and recognizing
> numbers at the same time.
>
> Well, my 8 year old is not a bit interested in reading and I am
> completely at peace with that. My 6 year old, however, started
> writing a couple of months ago (a bit akward sequence) and have been
> asking me to teach him how to read.
the youngest wants you to teach him how to read. My oldest is 14, she
learned how to read about 11/12. Over the course of years she would
periodically want me to teach her how to read. All of the books and
workbooks geared toward teaching reading are soooooo boring that my
daughter would toss the idea after a few minutes of some odd lesson or
other. We found that it was simply better to read to her, listen to
books on tape/cd and play video games and such.
I explained to her at the time that just because you sit down with
lessons and workbooks like they do in school, doesn't mean you will
magically figure it out. It takes time and kids who do it with lessons
and workbooks are just memorizing and repeating things until they know
them, and they do it everyday for long periods of time. I think because
she saw that to be true, she decided that other things were more
important to do with her time. It really seems a waste of time when a
kid will figure it out anyway, eventually on their own terms in their
own time, in their own way.
There are games you could play in the meantime that have a lot of words,
or you could write notes to him. Something we did, was put the name of
things all over the house on little pieces of paper. There were labels
for everything in our bathroom for a long time.
My oldest daughter attributes learning to read with playing toontown.
She says that it was the single most important thing she did that helped
her really learn to read and remember words.
Jenny C
> We started off playing fun games like labeling items in the house withtheir names on sticky notes and then matching the names to cards.
Games are fun for sure and I'm sure your kids liked them, but I'm just
going to put this out there...
If games are being played with the idea that you are secretly inserting
knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more than being a
creative teacher. The idea behind unschooling is to let go of
"teaching", let go of the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by
this or that time.
There is something truly magical when a kid figures out how to read on
their own, in their own way, in their own time. They own that process!
They don't give the credit to their teacher or their mom or some silly,
even fun, game. They credit themselves and that goes a lllooonnnggg way
to giving them the confidence to discover everything else in the whole
wide world they may want or need to know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
" Since my daughter was 2 1/2 she 's been watching the leapfrog videos,
Letter factory and Talking words factory, I got fustrated last year
trying to teach her phonics even though she knew the letter sounds she
learned from the videos she just wasn't interested ,..."
It might help you to know that some kids really don't "get" phonics, no
matter how hard a parent may try to implement it. Phonics is but one
method of teaching reading to kids, and it's relatively new in the whole
scheme of things. Personally, I think phonics does a lot of damage to
holistic reading. When a kid learns how to read naturally, in their own
way and their own time, they are also learning how to spell, how to put
sentences together, how to use puncutation, how to put words together.
Phonics takes one little aspect of reading, called sounding out words,
and calls it reading. Kids that I've known that learned how to read
using phonics, have terrible spelling, and their spelling instinct is to
spell phonetically, which,within the english language, doesn't work most
of the time. I think phonics does a terrible disservice to kids in many
many ways!
"...so I decided to leave it alone at least until this year when she
will be in kindergartner, but a few months ago she started to read 3
letter words all by herself, it seem to be that some kids learn certain
things when they feel like at least that is the way my daughter learn so
I will just follow her clues and let her thrive at her own pace."
Why leave it along until this year, why not leave it alone for good?!
If your child is reading three letter words, then she's reading three
letter words. Let it go, breathe, stop worrying about the big hairy
subject of READING. So, yes, follow her clues and let her thrive at her
own pace. Let go of bench marks and what a kid should know or be doing
at a certain age. It's all very very contrived.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Letter factory and Talking words factory, I got fustrated last year
trying to teach her phonics even though she knew the letter sounds she
learned from the videos she just wasn't interested ,..."
It might help you to know that some kids really don't "get" phonics, no
matter how hard a parent may try to implement it. Phonics is but one
method of teaching reading to kids, and it's relatively new in the whole
scheme of things. Personally, I think phonics does a lot of damage to
holistic reading. When a kid learns how to read naturally, in their own
way and their own time, they are also learning how to spell, how to put
sentences together, how to use puncutation, how to put words together.
Phonics takes one little aspect of reading, called sounding out words,
and calls it reading. Kids that I've known that learned how to read
using phonics, have terrible spelling, and their spelling instinct is to
spell phonetically, which,within the english language, doesn't work most
of the time. I think phonics does a terrible disservice to kids in many
many ways!
"...so I decided to leave it alone at least until this year when she
will be in kindergartner, but a few months ago she started to read 3
letter words all by herself, it seem to be that some kids learn certain
things when they feel like at least that is the way my daughter learn so
I will just follow her clues and let her thrive at her own pace."
Why leave it along until this year, why not leave it alone for good?!
If your child is reading three letter words, then she's reading three
letter words. Let it go, breathe, stop worrying about the big hairy
subject of READING. So, yes, follow her clues and let her thrive at her
own pace. Let go of bench marks and what a kid should know or be doing
at a certain age. It's all very very contrived.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Tellew
<<<can you please give me
guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
read.>>
My youngest took a jump with reading when we played "Bookworm
Adventures" online. (We started with the free trial, then bought it
cause he loved it.)
http://www.popcap.com/games/bookworm?s_kwcid=bookworm%20adventures|2243256468&gclid=CKKS4LGzkJQCFSgtagodClINeQ
It's a Boggle-like game with a worm who has battles against storybook
creatures. Nicky wanted to play when he saw a friend playing it, but
he was afraid he couldn't do it. I helped him by figuring out
phonetically spelled words that were there, simple at first and
helping him figure out how to spell them. He quickly took over
figuring out how they were spelled.
Over the course of months he noticed that he could figure out a lot
of words on signs and such and then an occasional frame in a comic
strip. The comic strips (and books, eventually) were great because
it's easy to take it one frame at a time and feel successful.
I think that's key - feeling successful enough to be confident to try
a little more and then you learn to read more by reading. I don't
think that success or confidence has to come from phonics at all -
that's just one way. I've been re-reading Frank Smith's "Reading
Without
Nonsense."
http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Without-Nonsense-Frank-Smith/dp/0807734721
What a fabulous book! I liked it when I was a teacher and was
pleased to find it still spoke to me as an unschooling mom.
"Getting" reading comes from coming to see yourself as a member of
the reading club. Some kids seem to get this when they think that
sitting down thumbing through picture books is reading; by
considering themselves to be able to do it, it opens the door for
them to make that print into meaning in their own way. I think these
are often the ones who teach themselves young. Other kids get the
confidence by having someone help them until they realize that they
can do it themselves. Nicky was in that group.
I think we all have to come to realize that sense can be made of
what's on the page and that we have the ability to figure it
out. And for each of us, it's a slightly different path, inspiration
or breakthrough. The challenge for us unschooling parents is knowing
our kids well enough to make some good guesses as to where they will
find that path and help them toward it.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
guidance on the most fun and easy going way to teach him how to
read.>>
My youngest took a jump with reading when we played "Bookworm
Adventures" online. (We started with the free trial, then bought it
cause he loved it.)
http://www.popcap.com/games/bookworm?s_kwcid=bookworm%20adventures|2243256468&gclid=CKKS4LGzkJQCFSgtagodClINeQ
It's a Boggle-like game with a worm who has battles against storybook
creatures. Nicky wanted to play when he saw a friend playing it, but
he was afraid he couldn't do it. I helped him by figuring out
phonetically spelled words that were there, simple at first and
helping him figure out how to spell them. He quickly took over
figuring out how they were spelled.
Over the course of months he noticed that he could figure out a lot
of words on signs and such and then an occasional frame in a comic
strip. The comic strips (and books, eventually) were great because
it's easy to take it one frame at a time and feel successful.
I think that's key - feeling successful enough to be confident to try
a little more and then you learn to read more by reading. I don't
think that success or confidence has to come from phonics at all -
that's just one way. I've been re-reading Frank Smith's "Reading
Without
Nonsense."
http://www.amazon.com/Reading-Without-Nonsense-Frank-Smith/dp/0807734721
What a fabulous book! I liked it when I was a teacher and was
pleased to find it still spoke to me as an unschooling mom.
"Getting" reading comes from coming to see yourself as a member of
the reading club. Some kids seem to get this when they think that
sitting down thumbing through picture books is reading; by
considering themselves to be able to do it, it opens the door for
them to make that print into meaning in their own way. I think these
are often the ones who teach themselves young. Other kids get the
confidence by having someone help them until they realize that they
can do it themselves. Nicky was in that group.
I think we all have to come to realize that sense can be made of
what's on the page and that we have the ability to figure it
out. And for each of us, it's a slightly different path, inspiration
or breakthrough. The challenge for us unschooling parents is knowing
our kids well enough to make some good guesses as to where they will
find that path and help them toward it.
Pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
J Geller
I didn't mention that my son was the one who came up with the game ideas. My son just loves games and is always trying to get people to play with him. He is also a fencer and is going to be fencing at Nationals in another week. He is so excited. He loves board games, computer games, sports, logic puzzles, etc. I said he loves sports, but only ones that are games. Is isn't the competition that he likes but the rules. I hate playing board games and would rather hike than do a sports game any day. Watching sports is torture for me. Any time that I can find games that are fun for he and I to do together, it is a big plus. It is not that I am trying to disguise learning as games but that all he wants to do is "play games". Except reading. He loves to read now and it gives me a break when there aren't others around for him to play games with.
Summer is bliss for him since he can do baseball, soccer, fencing, flag football and all his favorites. During the school year, he can only do sports after school or some rare homeschool sports activities during the day. Rather than homeschooling, he would much rather be at a school that had sports and games all day. Groups of kids with sports and games to choose from going from one activity to another. That is his idea of unschooling.
Some of the logic puzzles and paper and pencil games that we do together in the winter are our compromise for the fact that he can't play flag football in our living room with 5-13 other kids. He has learned to make games out of going to stores, riding in the car, hiking, even brushing his teeth.
Preventing him from turning everything that he wants to do or learn into a game would be on my list of "how not to unschool".
Jae
Redmond, WA
From: Jenny C
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Teaching how to read
Games are fun for sure and I'm sure your kids liked them, but I'm just
going to put this out there...
If games are being played with the idea that you are secretly inserting
knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more than being a
creative teacher. The idea behind unschooling is to let go of
"teaching", let go of the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by
this or that time.
There is something truly magical when a kid figures out how to read on
their own, in their own way, in their own time. They own that process!
They don't give the credit to their teacher or their mom or some silly,
even fun, game. They credit themselves and that goes a lllooonnnggg way
to giving them the confidence to discover everything else in the whole
wide world they may want or need to know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Summer is bliss for him since he can do baseball, soccer, fencing, flag football and all his favorites. During the school year, he can only do sports after school or some rare homeschool sports activities during the day. Rather than homeschooling, he would much rather be at a school that had sports and games all day. Groups of kids with sports and games to choose from going from one activity to another. That is his idea of unschooling.
Some of the logic puzzles and paper and pencil games that we do together in the winter are our compromise for the fact that he can't play flag football in our living room with 5-13 other kids. He has learned to make games out of going to stores, riding in the car, hiking, even brushing his teeth.
Preventing him from turning everything that he wants to do or learn into a game would be on my list of "how not to unschool".
Jae
Redmond, WA
From: Jenny C
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 11:39 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Teaching how to read
> We started off playing fun games like labeling items in the house withtheir names on sticky notes and then matching the names to cards.
Games are fun for sure and I'm sure your kids liked them, but I'm just
going to put this out there...
If games are being played with the idea that you are secretly inserting
knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more than being a
creative teacher. The idea behind unschooling is to let go of
"teaching", let go of the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by
this or that time.
There is something truly magical when a kid figures out how to read on
their own, in their own way, in their own time. They own that process!
They don't give the credit to their teacher or their mom or some silly,
even fun, game. They credit themselves and that goes a lllooonnnggg way
to giving them the confidence to discover everything else in the whole
wide world they may want or need to know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Something we did, was put the name of
things all over the house on little pieces of paper. There were labels
for everything in our bathroom for a long time.-=-
We would do a word swap, with sticky notes on about 20 things in one
room. We'd write them but put them on the wrong things, so they had
to be rearranged. Older kid would help the youngest after a while.
Sometimes someone would say "let's play that sticky note word game"
or something.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
things all over the house on little pieces of paper. There were labels
for everything in our bathroom for a long time.-=-
We would do a word swap, with sticky notes on about 20 things in one
room. We'd write them but put them on the wrong things, so they had
to be rearranged. Older kid would help the youngest after a while.
Sometimes someone would say "let's play that sticky note word game"
or something.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-If games are being played with the idea that you are secretly
inserting
knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more than being a
creative teacher. The idea behind unschooling is to let go of
"teaching", let go of the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by
this or that time.-=-
I disagree.
-=-If games are being played with the idea that you are secretly
inserting knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more
than...-=-
No! You're playing games!! One person's expectation doesn't change
the fact that others might be really enjoying the game.
If the kids want to play and the mom thinks "Oh cool; they'll learn
more about maps," it seems you're suggesting she must then stop the
game because she has had impure thoughts about learning.
-=- then you are doing nothing more than being a creative teacher. -=-
Hey, if that's where a person is and they need to see learning happen
without schoolishness, and a period of what could be interpretted as
"creative teaching" passes, here's what matters:
Were the kids having fun? Did they have the option to wander off and
do something else? Was the mom willing to be redirected to other
kinds of activities? Were they really just ("just") playing?
If so, no harm/no foul.
-=-The idea behind unschooling is to let go of "teaching", let go of
the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by this or that time.-=-
Yes, but some people take it too far. People can create and
encourage and provide learning environments like crazy and still
maintain their unschooling integrity. If that's not so, then
unschooling could become the avoidance of anything that looks like or
might lead to learning.
Once in a discussion like this (on unschooling.com message board of
olden days) I suggested that critical thinking would be good, for
someone who was thrashing wildly from one extreme to another and
being suspicious of others' veracity and motives in writing and
trying to help her.
At the mention of "critical thinking," she went crazy and said NO,
she wasn't going to even consider critical thinking and no one should
suggest it because it sounded like something they taught in school.
Cripes, so is which way's north and that plants need water and sunshine.
Don't avoid learning. Don't wait years and years for something to
arise naturally without the mom's introducing it. That's what
strewing can be for. If you realize your child has never seen a
bird's nest up close in person, and you find one, BRING IT IN!
(unless it has mites on it or something gross) If your child hasn't
played with magnets or soap bubbles, GET SOME!
Any creative teacher would do that. <bwg>
What kind of person would decide against doing that because it might
lead directly to learning?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
inserting
knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more than being a
creative teacher. The idea behind unschooling is to let go of
"teaching", let go of the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by
this or that time.-=-
I disagree.
-=-If games are being played with the idea that you are secretly
inserting knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more
than...-=-
No! You're playing games!! One person's expectation doesn't change
the fact that others might be really enjoying the game.
If the kids want to play and the mom thinks "Oh cool; they'll learn
more about maps," it seems you're suggesting she must then stop the
game because she has had impure thoughts about learning.
-=- then you are doing nothing more than being a creative teacher. -=-
Hey, if that's where a person is and they need to see learning happen
without schoolishness, and a period of what could be interpretted as
"creative teaching" passes, here's what matters:
Were the kids having fun? Did they have the option to wander off and
do something else? Was the mom willing to be redirected to other
kinds of activities? Were they really just ("just") playing?
If so, no harm/no foul.
-=-The idea behind unschooling is to let go of "teaching", let go of
the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by this or that time.-=-
Yes, but some people take it too far. People can create and
encourage and provide learning environments like crazy and still
maintain their unschooling integrity. If that's not so, then
unschooling could become the avoidance of anything that looks like or
might lead to learning.
Once in a discussion like this (on unschooling.com message board of
olden days) I suggested that critical thinking would be good, for
someone who was thrashing wildly from one extreme to another and
being suspicious of others' veracity and motives in writing and
trying to help her.
At the mention of "critical thinking," she went crazy and said NO,
she wasn't going to even consider critical thinking and no one should
suggest it because it sounded like something they taught in school.
Cripes, so is which way's north and that plants need water and sunshine.
Don't avoid learning. Don't wait years and years for something to
arise naturally without the mom's introducing it. That's what
strewing can be for. If you realize your child has never seen a
bird's nest up close in person, and you find one, BRING IT IN!
(unless it has mites on it or something gross) If your child hasn't
played with magnets or soap bubbles, GET SOME!
Any creative teacher would do that. <bwg>
What kind of person would decide against doing that because it might
lead directly to learning?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> -=-The idea behind unschooling is to let go of "teaching", let go oftime.-=-
> the ideas that kids need to learn this or that by this or that
>I've been guilty of doing the creative teaching thing. At some point
>
> Yes, but some people take it too far. People can create and
> encourage and provide learning environments like crazy and still
> maintain their unschooling integrity. If that's not so, then
> unschooling could become the avoidance of anything that looks like or
> might lead to learning.
> Don't avoid learning. Don't wait years and years for something to
> arise naturally without the mom's introducing it. That's what
> strewing can be for. If you realize your child has never seen a
> bird's nest up close in person, and you find one, BRING IT IN!
> (unless it has mites on it or something gross) If your child hasn't
> played with magnets or soap bubbles, GET SOME!
>
> Any creative teacher would do that. <bwg>
> What kind of person would decide against doing that because it might
> lead directly to learning?
very early on, I decided that there were better ways. It felt deceptive
to me. My kids like all kinds of games, especially my youngest, and
she'd probably play educational games disguised as "just another fun
game". Playing with sticky notes are fun, playing jumping challenges
are fun. All of those things can be really fun. My objection, in
general, is that kids like all these fun things, and adults take these
fun things and turn them into "teaching" moments.
I agree about bringing things in, and showing things to kids, and giving
kids ideas and opportunities that they otherwise wouldn't know existed.
That is largely what we do at our house. If the whole wide world is for
learning from and exploring, then I'll try my very best to bring as much
of that to them, or them to it.
I see homeschool moms spend loads of time making all that teaching
material "fun", when really the kids just want to play. I consciously
focus on the fun and tuck away the teachable moments. People can't help
but learn things, especially when they are having fun. I don't want all
those fun learning moments to be contrived teachable moments. I could
easily go there, I've done it, and I avoid it because I know I go there.
Melissa Dietrick
>....> Any creative teacher would do that. <bwg>
>
> -=-If games are being played with the idea that you are secretly
> inserting knowledge into them, then you are doing nothing more
> than...-=-
>
> No! You're playing games!! One person's expectation doesn't change
> the fact that others might be really enjoying the game.
>
> If the kids want to play and the mom thinks "Oh cool; they'll learn
> more about maps," it seems you're suggesting she must then stop the
> game because she has had impure thoughts about learning.
>
> What kind of person would decide against doing that because it mightthank you for writing this sandra.
> lead directly to learning
Here I was, wanting to write something similar, but I was not sure I
would be branded as "unpure". Not that Im going for pure what ever
that is, <g>...but I do like to play games with my kids, and lots of
times it has come from games my older children have taught me when
they were in elementary school. Some of our favorite family word
games are "secretly" teaching grammar, sorting, and alphabet as well
as trivia...
melissa
in italy
mamma of 7
Melissa Dietrick
and lots of
when...>>
:o)
melissa
> times it has come from games my older children have taught me whenoops, I mean to say,<< ...games I *learned* from my older children
> they were in elementary school.
when...>>
:o)
melissa
k
That's the thing all those pages and pages of vidgame advocates are talking
about... the thing kids don't have to realize and that anybody can enjoy
about games or anything we learn from: that there's "secret" knowledge
laden throughout vidgames and tv shows and books and all kinds of other
media and in everything in the whole wide world as well as edutainment stuff
meant for making school material fun.
~Katherine
about... the thing kids don't have to realize and that anybody can enjoy
about games or anything we learn from: that there's "secret" knowledge
laden throughout vidgames and tv shows and books and all kinds of other
media and in everything in the whole wide world as well as edutainment stuff
meant for making school material fun.
~Katherine
On 6/26/08, Melissa Dietrick <melissa.dietrick@...> wrote:
>
> Some of our favorite family word
> games are "secretly" teaching grammar, sorting, and alphabet as well
> as trivia...
>
> melissa
> in italy
> mamma of 7
>
> __._
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-thank you for writing this sandra.
Here I was, wanting to write something similar, but I was not sure I
would be branded as "unpure". Not that Im going for pure what ever
that is, <g>..-=-
I LOVED map books we had when the kids were little. Schools would
have used them for geography. I used them because maps are FUN.
Maps are great. Kirby learned maps from Super Mario, the game
guide. Marty learned from some school-supply kits of pictures of a
zoo, with an aerial view,and then a map, and then a "ground view"
like if you were in the parking lot, and then you're inside the zoo,
and there are questions about where you go to get to the giraffe or
the merry go round or whatever. They were Great. Nice art.
There were books about kids' maps of their neighborhoods (one
Australian, one American). There was a book from Discovery Toys
showing different points of view of the same scene, with time passing
in some of the small details, and an aerial view of the whole thing,
too.
The difference between me pulling that out to play with Marty,
KNOWING (not just hoping) he would learn from it and teachers using
the same materials is that if the teachers had a requirement to
"cover maps" they needed to do something with everyone in the room
together (it came with ditto masters for making copies, which I threw
away). They would need to "keep people on task." Marty and I pulled
that out five or six times over a couple of years. If he wasn't in
the mood, it didn't happen! If he was, cool. He showed it to Holly
and explained it to her one time. He showed some friends of his.
I was fine with it lasting a minute or an hour. THAT is the big
telling difference.
My kids all drive. They all have full licenses. It's not okay with
me for them to get old enough to drive and have no idea how to read a
map. When we've had map needs, I've shown them if they wanted to
see. They DID want to see most of the time. And gradually they
became competent with maps. Marty drove to Kirby's apartment in
Austin. Holly knows parts of town I don't know, and she knows them
well, with a map in her head she could write down well.
There are things kids need to know, and there are fun and easy and
maybe sneaky (I prefer to think of it as painless) ways to help them
at least know the things exist. We made a song of our address when
Kirby was little so he could learn it. I don't remember the song any
more, but it worked and it took maybe four or five minutes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Here I was, wanting to write something similar, but I was not sure I
would be branded as "unpure". Not that Im going for pure what ever
that is, <g>..-=-
I LOVED map books we had when the kids were little. Schools would
have used them for geography. I used them because maps are FUN.
Maps are great. Kirby learned maps from Super Mario, the game
guide. Marty learned from some school-supply kits of pictures of a
zoo, with an aerial view,and then a map, and then a "ground view"
like if you were in the parking lot, and then you're inside the zoo,
and there are questions about where you go to get to the giraffe or
the merry go round or whatever. They were Great. Nice art.
There were books about kids' maps of their neighborhoods (one
Australian, one American). There was a book from Discovery Toys
showing different points of view of the same scene, with time passing
in some of the small details, and an aerial view of the whole thing,
too.
The difference between me pulling that out to play with Marty,
KNOWING (not just hoping) he would learn from it and teachers using
the same materials is that if the teachers had a requirement to
"cover maps" they needed to do something with everyone in the room
together (it came with ditto masters for making copies, which I threw
away). They would need to "keep people on task." Marty and I pulled
that out five or six times over a couple of years. If he wasn't in
the mood, it didn't happen! If he was, cool. He showed it to Holly
and explained it to her one time. He showed some friends of his.
I was fine with it lasting a minute or an hour. THAT is the big
telling difference.
My kids all drive. They all have full licenses. It's not okay with
me for them to get old enough to drive and have no idea how to read a
map. When we've had map needs, I've shown them if they wanted to
see. They DID want to see most of the time. And gradually they
became competent with maps. Marty drove to Kirby's apartment in
Austin. Holly knows parts of town I don't know, and she knows them
well, with a map in her head she could write down well.
There are things kids need to know, and there are fun and easy and
maybe sneaky (I prefer to think of it as painless) ways to help them
at least know the things exist. We made a song of our address when
Kirby was little so he could learn it. I don't remember the song any
more, but it worked and it took maybe four or five minutes.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I've been guilty of doing the creative teaching thing. At some point
very early on, I decided that there were better ways. It felt deceptive
to me. My kids like all kinds of games, especially my youngest, and
she'd probably play educational games disguised as "just another fun
game". -=-
But wait.
Do you mean to sort your games out, educational and non-educational,
and only play the not-overtly-educational games?
If a kid is having fun with a game, so what if it was designed to be
"about" math or language or history? So what?
If you are creatively bringing things where your kids see them, and
your kids learn or not while you learn to see more opportunities for
learning what's there to be "GUILTY" about?
-=-I've been guilty of doing the creative teaching thing. At some
point very early on, I decided that there were better ways. It felt
deceptive to me. -=-
Perhaps you were feeling deceptive, but there were ways to change
your feelings (or rather there are ways to change the feelings of
people who are on the list today trying to figure out how to proceed,
and I don't want them to think that having educational games is
something to feel "guilty" about.
-=-Playing with sticky notes are fun, playing jumping challenges are
fun. All of those things can be really fun. My objection, in general,
is that kids like all these fun things, and adults take these fun
things and turn them into "teaching" moments.-=-
Some do, some don't, some just let them unfold however they unfold.
That's a better goal, I think, than first reading the box to see
whether the mom should feel sneaky, deceptive or guilty.
Zoombinis, when it was new, was one of the coolest computer games
that had ever been, but it was clearly covering mathematical
concepts. Not numbers, but patterns. That's nothing to feel guilty
about having and playing.
-=-I don't want all those fun learning moments to be contrived
teachable moments. I could easily go there, I've done it, and I avoid
it because I know I go there.-=-
Maybe you should go there with a new confidence and let it turn
heavily educational or not. Moments when kids really want to know
something WILL start coming very naturally when the mom stops
counting, sorting, agonizing and second guessing. Learn to be the
same calm way whether you're watching poop jokes or a presidential
funeral. That's progress. <g> (And then if your kid's depressed,
avoid watching the funeral, but I think that topic is on another
list...)
In the past week I've had long conversations with my kids as follows,
with no strewing on my part:
Kirby, about political process and voter registration and changing
states.
Marty, about automobile registration realities, options, details;
about comprehensive insurance.
Holly, about female reproductive stuff and unusual spotty periods and
social and physical aspects of teen pregnancy (she's not pregnant,
but we talked about what ifs and who dids and what's whats).
When unschooling gets working well, it will build on itself, like a
siphon that keeps on going and going.
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/stages
Kelly Lovejoy described this pretty well. But when someone hasn't
really started unschooling yet because there's no agreement, then
doing educational things that are also fun is just fine. If someone
really wants to move toward unschooling fully, they might want to
change the way they see things and move away from the known-to-be-
educational materials.
Once they're fully confident, there might come a point where it
doesn't matter anymore. (I changed it from "will" to "can" to
"might," because some people confuse "fully confident" with "able to
write about it at length and persuade people online of full
confidence.")
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
very early on, I decided that there were better ways. It felt deceptive
to me. My kids like all kinds of games, especially my youngest, and
she'd probably play educational games disguised as "just another fun
game". -=-
But wait.
Do you mean to sort your games out, educational and non-educational,
and only play the not-overtly-educational games?
If a kid is having fun with a game, so what if it was designed to be
"about" math or language or history? So what?
If you are creatively bringing things where your kids see them, and
your kids learn or not while you learn to see more opportunities for
learning what's there to be "GUILTY" about?
-=-I've been guilty of doing the creative teaching thing. At some
point very early on, I decided that there were better ways. It felt
deceptive to me. -=-
Perhaps you were feeling deceptive, but there were ways to change
your feelings (or rather there are ways to change the feelings of
people who are on the list today trying to figure out how to proceed,
and I don't want them to think that having educational games is
something to feel "guilty" about.
-=-Playing with sticky notes are fun, playing jumping challenges are
fun. All of those things can be really fun. My objection, in general,
is that kids like all these fun things, and adults take these fun
things and turn them into "teaching" moments.-=-
Some do, some don't, some just let them unfold however they unfold.
That's a better goal, I think, than first reading the box to see
whether the mom should feel sneaky, deceptive or guilty.
Zoombinis, when it was new, was one of the coolest computer games
that had ever been, but it was clearly covering mathematical
concepts. Not numbers, but patterns. That's nothing to feel guilty
about having and playing.
-=-I don't want all those fun learning moments to be contrived
teachable moments. I could easily go there, I've done it, and I avoid
it because I know I go there.-=-
Maybe you should go there with a new confidence and let it turn
heavily educational or not. Moments when kids really want to know
something WILL start coming very naturally when the mom stops
counting, sorting, agonizing and second guessing. Learn to be the
same calm way whether you're watching poop jokes or a presidential
funeral. That's progress. <g> (And then if your kid's depressed,
avoid watching the funeral, but I think that topic is on another
list...)
In the past week I've had long conversations with my kids as follows,
with no strewing on my part:
Kirby, about political process and voter registration and changing
states.
Marty, about automobile registration realities, options, details;
about comprehensive insurance.
Holly, about female reproductive stuff and unusual spotty periods and
social and physical aspects of teen pregnancy (she's not pregnant,
but we talked about what ifs and who dids and what's whats).
When unschooling gets working well, it will build on itself, like a
siphon that keeps on going and going.
http://sandradodd.com/unschool/stages
Kelly Lovejoy described this pretty well. But when someone hasn't
really started unschooling yet because there's no agreement, then
doing educational things that are also fun is just fine. If someone
really wants to move toward unschooling fully, they might want to
change the way they see things and move away from the known-to-be-
educational materials.
Once they're fully confident, there might come a point where it
doesn't matter anymore. (I changed it from "will" to "can" to
"might," because some people confuse "fully confident" with "able to
write about it at length and persuade people online of full
confidence.")
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
dancing all over the world. ( http://www.vimeo.com/1211060 ) We
watched it several times and they had me read the names of the places
each time, then we started making all sorts of cool
connections ... "hey, isn't that where Nemo's dad went to find
Nemo?" "Wow, there are people in Madagascar AND lemurs?" "Zambia?
isn't that in Africa?" (me thinking: How did he know that?!) "Hey,
I was at that exact spot in Buenos Aires!! It was so cool because of
all the artists..." As it was all happening I realized how much
geography and geopolitical science was being touched on as we watched
the video over and over ("What is a demilitarized zone?"). So I
went for it, we just kept watching it and talking about stuff ... and
then they were done and we went and found the gummi bear video on
youtube ... oh yeh "I am a gummi bear, I am a gummi bear, I am a
yummy gummy yummy yummy gummy bear" or something like that -- which
would have seemed like the *end* of the lesson ... except then my son
clicked the gummi bear song in French, which led to it in German, and
then some Hippo and Dog singing in Spanish ... and me thinking, wow,
now they are learning about languages!
I can't imagine having turned off the videos at the moment I realized
that *I* had begun to associate teaching and learning with the fun we
were having -- because they were having a blast!
Okay, where was I going with that? I guess I just feel like there
are many times everyday when we are having fun and the kids are
learning and I recognize that and try to capitalize on it a little.
I even bought my DD print writing and cursive writing workbooks
because she loves writing letters so much and wants to learn to spell
things and write in a way that people can read easily. And she wants
to write like a princess, which in her world is cursive writing. She
pulls them out when she wants, I help her as requested, and she just
writes and writes. For her this is fun, if I had my DS do the same
thing it would not be unscholing though because he would never (at
least at this point in his life) choose to sit and write things in
workbooks.
Cathy
>Just today, we were watching a great video someone made of themselves
> I LOVED map books we had when the kids were little. Schools would
> have used them for geography. I used them because maps are FUN.
dancing all over the world. ( http://www.vimeo.com/1211060 ) We
watched it several times and they had me read the names of the places
each time, then we started making all sorts of cool
connections ... "hey, isn't that where Nemo's dad went to find
Nemo?" "Wow, there are people in Madagascar AND lemurs?" "Zambia?
isn't that in Africa?" (me thinking: How did he know that?!) "Hey,
I was at that exact spot in Buenos Aires!! It was so cool because of
all the artists..." As it was all happening I realized how much
geography and geopolitical science was being touched on as we watched
the video over and over ("What is a demilitarized zone?"). So I
went for it, we just kept watching it and talking about stuff ... and
then they were done and we went and found the gummi bear video on
youtube ... oh yeh "I am a gummi bear, I am a gummi bear, I am a
yummy gummy yummy yummy gummy bear" or something like that -- which
would have seemed like the *end* of the lesson ... except then my son
clicked the gummi bear song in French, which led to it in German, and
then some Hippo and Dog singing in Spanish ... and me thinking, wow,
now they are learning about languages!
I can't imagine having turned off the videos at the moment I realized
that *I* had begun to associate teaching and learning with the fun we
were having -- because they were having a blast!
Okay, where was I going with that? I guess I just feel like there
are many times everyday when we are having fun and the kids are
learning and I recognize that and try to capitalize on it a little.
I even bought my DD print writing and cursive writing workbooks
because she loves writing letters so much and wants to learn to spell
things and write in a way that people can read easily. And she wants
to write like a princess, which in her world is cursive writing. She
pulls them out when she wants, I help her as requested, and she just
writes and writes. For her this is fun, if I had my DS do the same
thing it would not be unscholing though because he would never (at
least at this point in his life) choose to sit and write things in
workbooks.
Cathy
Sally
--Marty learned from some school-supply kits of pictures of a
zoo, with an aerial view,and then a map, and then a "ground view"
like if you were in the parking lot, and then you're inside the zoo,
and there are questions about where you go to get to the giraffe or
the merry go round or whatever. They were Great. Nice art.
There were books about kids' maps of their neighborhoods (one
Australian, one American). There was a book from Discovery Toys
showing different points of view of the same scene, with time passing
in some of the small details, and an aerial view of the whole thing,
too.--
This reminded me of David Macaulay's TED talk about his book on
Rome. You can watch it here--> http://snipurl.com/2pt5p
[www_ted_com]
Macaulay (author and illustrator of "The Way Things Work"
and "Castle" and other exciting books) talks about different ways of
seeing Rome that he considered using in the book--bird's eye view,
view from a blimp, soccer ball's "eye" view, map view, walking view,
view from a scooter. It's fun for a map-lover.
Sally Lopez
zoo, with an aerial view,and then a map, and then a "ground view"
like if you were in the parking lot, and then you're inside the zoo,
and there are questions about where you go to get to the giraffe or
the merry go round or whatever. They were Great. Nice art.
There were books about kids' maps of their neighborhoods (one
Australian, one American). There was a book from Discovery Toys
showing different points of view of the same scene, with time passing
in some of the small details, and an aerial view of the whole thing,
too.--
This reminded me of David Macaulay's TED talk about his book on
Rome. You can watch it here--> http://snipurl.com/2pt5p
[www_ted_com]
Macaulay (author and illustrator of "The Way Things Work"
and "Castle" and other exciting books) talks about different ways of
seeing Rome that he considered using in the book--bird's eye view,
view from a blimp, soccer ball's "eye" view, map view, walking view,
view from a scooter. It's fun for a map-lover.
Sally Lopez
swissarmy_wife
Why stop with one video? We discovered Matt awhile back. He's great!!!
http://www.wherethehellismatt.com/?fbid=BMmfxd
http://www.wherethehellismatt.com/?fbid=BMmfxd
> Just today, we were watching a great video someone made of themselves
> dancing all over the world. ( http://www.vimeo.com/1211060 ) We
> watched it several times and they had me read the names of the places
> each time, then we started making all sorts of cool
> connections ... "hey, isn't that where Nemo's dad went to find
> Nemo?" "Wow, there are people in Madagascar AND lemurs?" "Zambia?
> isn't that in Africa?" (me thinking: How did he know that?!) "Hey,
> I was at that exact spot in Buenos Aires!! It was so cool because of
> all the artists..." As it was all happening I realized how much
> geography and geopolitical science was being touched on as we watched
> the video over and over ("What is a demilitarized zone?"). So I
> went for it, we just kept watching it and talking about stuff ... and
> then they were done and we went and found the gummi bear video on
> youtube ... oh yeh "I am a gummi bear, I am a gummi bear, I am a
> yummy gummy yummy yummy gummy bear" or something like that -- which
> would have seemed like the *end* of the lesson ... except then my son
> clicked the gummi bear song in French, which led to it in German, and
> then some Hippo and Dog singing in Spanish ... and me thinking, wow,
> now they are learning about languages!
>
> I can't imagine having turned off the videos at the moment I realized
> that *I* had begun to associate teaching and learning with the fun we
> were having -- because they were having a blast!
Jenny C
> Do you mean to sort your games out, educational and non-educational,No, not sort out our games, but play games for the sake of game play,
> and only play the not-overtly-educational games?
>
> If a kid is having fun with a game, so what if it was designed to be
> "about" math or language or history? So what?
not for the sake of inserting knowledge. A few years ago, my mom bought
an online subscription to a reading game thing. We checked it out and
decided that we probably wouldn't use it and told her to get her money
back because it was really expensive. I had to finally convince my dad
to return it since I knew his frugality would win out over my mom's
stubborn insistence on the value of learning how to read through an
online education game.
The games were fun and the graphics were cool, but at the time my
daughter was more into playing toontown and would hands down choose to
play toontown over the reading games. My mother had purchased it
because I had been telling her about how much Chamille was learning how
to read by playing toontown. In her mind, she made the connection of
learning how to read through online game play and thought it would be a
good way to help Chamille along in her reading acquisition. So while it
was a generous offer, it was meant to replace toontown with something
geared specifically towards learning how to read. Toontown was a fun
game that we all enjoyed with the side effect of learning how to read.
If Chamille had been totally into the reading games, we surely would've
accepted the generous gift and played the fun games.
> -=-I've been guilty of doing the creative teaching thing. At someI have really given this a lot of thought! Good thing it wasn't on
> point very early on, I decided that there were better ways. It felt
> deceptive to me. -=-
>
> Perhaps you were feeling deceptive, but there were ways to change
> your feelings (or rather there are ways to change the feelings of
> people who are on the list today trying to figure out how to proceed,
> and I don't want them to think that having educational games is
> something to feel "guilty" about.
learn nothing day! I think, for me, it goes back to when I was teaching
dance classes at preschools. They wanted me to include adding and
subtracting and the alphabet and all that. I wanted to teach dance. I
was able to do what they asked, but it felt deceptive to dance about the
alphabet and jump 3 + 3. As if there is something inherintly not
valuable about dance in and of itself, and that somehow because dance
was fun and enjoyable, "hey why not teach something at the same time",
because kids learn better when they are having fun. My own thinking
was, "why can't the kids learn about how their body moves, why can't
that be as valuable as learning the alphabet?". That isn't the way our
culture thinks. The arts are marginalized, not valuable in and of
themselves, but somehow we can use the arts to teach math and reading
and and and .... whatever else might be on the benchmark tests.
In fact the local arts charter school uses that very logic to get
parents to send their kids to the arts school. See, they can learn how
to dance which is something they want to do, but the parents can rest
assured knowing that their kids will be learning about math through the
angles of the bodies and the trajectory of the jump, etc. GAG!
I think about all those poor kids that I helped to corrupt in how they
viewed dance. Okay, I do feel guilty of that!
> -=-I don't want all those fun learning moments to be contrivedMaybe. Knowing the difference helps, knowing that distinction helps.
> teachable moments. I could easily go there, I've done it, and I avoid
> it because I know I go there.-=-
>
> Maybe you should go there with a new confidence and let it turn
> heavily educational or not. Moments when kids really want to know
> something WILL start coming very naturally when the mom stops
> counting, sorting, agonizing and second guessing. Learn to be the
> same calm way whether you're watching poop jokes or a presidential
> funeral. That's progress. <g> (And then if your kid's depressed,
> avoid watching the funeral, but I think that topic is on another
> list...)
Knowing that its all opportunity for learning helps. Still I can't help
feeling that feeling of dishonesty when something is overtly
"teacherly". It gives me a feeling of being dishonest and perhaps that
is where I should dig deeper.
It took a lot of thought to let go of learning objectives and to stop
viewing the world in that manner that school holds in such high regard.
I see my kids for who they are, not what they know, however what they
know is cool and ever expanding, largely because we don't squash it or
place values on it.
> Kelly Lovejoy described this pretty well. But when someone hasn'tYes, this is something that I used to do, mostly to quell the doubts of
> really started unschooling yet because there's no agreement, then
> doing educational things that are also fun is just fine. If someone
> really wants to move toward unschooling fully, they might want to
> change the way they see things and move away from the known-to-be-
> educational materials.
others, including my husband. Mostly, in the past few years, I don't
really care about the naysayers, and my husband is totally on board with
unschooling. So, educational anything seems contrived, especially
educational for the sake of being educational, even if it happens to be
fun.
So for the sake of fun, would my kiddo enjoy a rousing game of hopscotch
or a game involving jumping and number manipulation for the sake of
learning number manipulation? They could be one and the same! It's my
distinction that makes the difference as well as how well my kid enjoys
the game.
Joyce Fetteroll
On Jun 27, 2008, at 5:27 PM, Jenny C wrote:
where, for instance, science includes literature and art and vice
versa -- just done by someone with no real understanding of what it
means.
I always thought unit studies were a cool idea (they appeal to the
engineer in me :-) but the implementation was annoyingly similar. In
a cowboy unit, for example, it wouldn't be real math pertinent to the
cowboy's life. It would be adding cows and horses :-P
Joyce
> but it felt deceptive to dance about theThat's possible, but my first thought was a cross curriculum deal --
> alphabet and jump 3 + 3. As if there is something inherintly not
> valuable about dance in and of itself, and that somehow because dance
> was fun and enjoyable, "hey why not teach something at the same time"
where, for instance, science includes literature and art and vice
versa -- just done by someone with no real understanding of what it
means.
I always thought unit studies were a cool idea (they appeal to the
engineer in me :-) but the implementation was annoyingly similar. In
a cowboy unit, for example, it wouldn't be real math pertinent to the
cowboy's life. It would be adding cows and horses :-P
Joyce
Sandra Dodd
-=-it goes back to when I was teaching
dance classes at preschools. They wanted me to include adding and
subtracting and the alphabet and all that. I wanted to teach dance.-=-
Well that would be traumatizing. I think kids will figure out a lot
of math on their own from dance, because if it's in four, you're
going to come up with 16s and 32s, and if in 3, you're not getting to
any 16s. And it will take two measures or four to get back to
starting on the foot you started on (if you're in three).
But I see the musical side of dancing (and the math side of music).
I don't see the spelling side at all.
We have overtly educational games--tons of them. We didn't
necessarily play them "right." We rarely felt obligated to play ANY
game "right." We play encore without the game board, always team on
team. We've made up house rules to lots of things. A friend gave us
a set of Cuisenaire (sp?) rods, and some laminated papers to go with
them. The papers were ***STUPID*** and I don't use that word
lightly; I don't use that word much at all.
I woke up this morning thinking I really should've put on the "how to
screw up unschooling" list "Call things 'stupid.'"
But I don't take this back. With these very nice-to-feel
proportional "math manipulatives," they were forming letters by
putting different rods on different outlined places on a laminated
mat. And the numbers were there. On the P, there were some long
pieces for the vertical line, and then on the round part there were
some twos, and two threes and a four I think. UNDOUBTEDLY some poor
kid (or a few hundred thousand) kept in mind that a P is made up of
some threes and a four and... and it has nothing whatsoever on earth
or in heaven (or hel) to do with it. Nothing.
So we didn't use those. I showed them to my kids who said, "WHAT!?"
and then went on doing something maybe as equally unrelated to the
designer's intent, but of their own choosing.
The things they learn with cuisenaire rods, they can learn with Lego,
but still those rods are pretty and they sound good when they clink
together, and we still have them.
-=-Still I can't help feeling that feeling of dishonesty when
something is overtly "teacherly". -=-
I don't think unschooled kids have the same responses to "teacherly"
as those of us who were teachered nearly to death, though. And
things themselves aren't usually teacherly. It's the way they're
presented, valued, used... Except video games. They can be
teacherly. <g>
Holly and I used to play a computer game called Math Arena. It would
clearly have thrilled teachers for kids to play it in their
classrooms. It was pretty fun, though. It was about area and volume
and shapes and estimations and things that can be done quickly and
without many numbers involved.
-=-So for the sake of fun, would my kiddo enjoy a rousing game of
hopscotch or a game involving jumping and number manipulation for the
sake of learning number manipulation? They could be one and the same!
It's my distinction that makes the difference as well as how well my
kid enjoys the game.-=-
If the mom's reaction makes a difference in their choice, then maybe
that could be a problem. If the mom is steering a kid away from
something just because it reminds the mom of school or she thinks
unschoolers are supposed to shun "learning activities," that's not good.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
dance classes at preschools. They wanted me to include adding and
subtracting and the alphabet and all that. I wanted to teach dance.-=-
Well that would be traumatizing. I think kids will figure out a lot
of math on their own from dance, because if it's in four, you're
going to come up with 16s and 32s, and if in 3, you're not getting to
any 16s. And it will take two measures or four to get back to
starting on the foot you started on (if you're in three).
But I see the musical side of dancing (and the math side of music).
I don't see the spelling side at all.
We have overtly educational games--tons of them. We didn't
necessarily play them "right." We rarely felt obligated to play ANY
game "right." We play encore without the game board, always team on
team. We've made up house rules to lots of things. A friend gave us
a set of Cuisenaire (sp?) rods, and some laminated papers to go with
them. The papers were ***STUPID*** and I don't use that word
lightly; I don't use that word much at all.
I woke up this morning thinking I really should've put on the "how to
screw up unschooling" list "Call things 'stupid.'"
But I don't take this back. With these very nice-to-feel
proportional "math manipulatives," they were forming letters by
putting different rods on different outlined places on a laminated
mat. And the numbers were there. On the P, there were some long
pieces for the vertical line, and then on the round part there were
some twos, and two threes and a four I think. UNDOUBTEDLY some poor
kid (or a few hundred thousand) kept in mind that a P is made up of
some threes and a four and... and it has nothing whatsoever on earth
or in heaven (or hel) to do with it. Nothing.
So we didn't use those. I showed them to my kids who said, "WHAT!?"
and then went on doing something maybe as equally unrelated to the
designer's intent, but of their own choosing.
The things they learn with cuisenaire rods, they can learn with Lego,
but still those rods are pretty and they sound good when they clink
together, and we still have them.
-=-Still I can't help feeling that feeling of dishonesty when
something is overtly "teacherly". -=-
I don't think unschooled kids have the same responses to "teacherly"
as those of us who were teachered nearly to death, though. And
things themselves aren't usually teacherly. It's the way they're
presented, valued, used... Except video games. They can be
teacherly. <g>
Holly and I used to play a computer game called Math Arena. It would
clearly have thrilled teachers for kids to play it in their
classrooms. It was pretty fun, though. It was about area and volume
and shapes and estimations and things that can be done quickly and
without many numbers involved.
-=-So for the sake of fun, would my kiddo enjoy a rousing game of
hopscotch or a game involving jumping and number manipulation for the
sake of learning number manipulation? They could be one and the same!
It's my distinction that makes the difference as well as how well my
kid enjoys the game.-=-
If the mom's reaction makes a difference in their choice, then maybe
that could be a problem. If the mom is steering a kid away from
something just because it reminds the mom of school or she thinks
unschoolers are supposed to shun "learning activities," that's not good.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I always thought unit studies were a cool idea (they appeal to the
engineer in me :-) but the implementation was annoyingly similar. In
a cowboy unit, for example, it wouldn't be real math pertinent to the
cowboy's life. It would be adding cows and horses :-P-=-
I think the people who first came up with the idea DID intend for it
to involve real-life situations. There's an alternative school here,
The Family School, that does half days of unit studies, but more like
a theme for the year. Once when I was paying attention, long ago,
the theme was "treasure." The school was newer then. When they were
talking about something like the reclamation of a sunken ship, or
something, they talked about real things--geography, history,
politics (whose ship was it and why was it down there?) and such.
That's cool. It wasn't so contrived.
I've seen some abominable misses on unit studies, though, such as
Joyce is referring to. Instead of talking about how much wire it
would take to fence a field, how many posts, how many brads (unless
they're using steel poles, and maybe the expense of steel vs. wood
could be discussed), no... it's if there are six horses in this field
and thirteen in the other... And they just stop with a total. They
don't go on to how much feed they'll need or ANYthing. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
engineer in me :-) but the implementation was annoyingly similar. In
a cowboy unit, for example, it wouldn't be real math pertinent to the
cowboy's life. It would be adding cows and horses :-P-=-
I think the people who first came up with the idea DID intend for it
to involve real-life situations. There's an alternative school here,
The Family School, that does half days of unit studies, but more like
a theme for the year. Once when I was paying attention, long ago,
the theme was "treasure." The school was newer then. When they were
talking about something like the reclamation of a sunken ship, or
something, they talked about real things--geography, history,
politics (whose ship was it and why was it down there?) and such.
That's cool. It wasn't so contrived.
I've seen some abominable misses on unit studies, though, such as
Joyce is referring to. Instead of talking about how much wire it
would take to fence a field, how many posts, how many brads (unless
they're using steel poles, and maybe the expense of steel vs. wood
could be discussed), no... it's if there are six horses in this field
and thirteen in the other... And they just stop with a total. They
don't go on to how much feed they'll need or ANYthing. <g>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
patchworkgirl57
I took my kids in for eye exams a few days ago & when it was my 7 yo's
turn to take his, it turned out he didn't know how to read the
individual letters, ABC etc.. but... he knows how to read & memorized
the words or something... I think that's how many of us learned to
read back in the 60s (that's how I learned "see spot run")...
If the dr had something with small words, he could have done the eye
test that way but instead he used pictures. Oh well! Made me realize
how infrequently we actually NEED to know the alphabet or how to read
it or whatever...
If the kid(s) want to do the alphabet & practice numbers over & over,
fine, but I won't push it... I think my older 3 are burned out on that
sort of thing because that's what they did in public school, drilled
numbers & alphabet, etc...
turn to take his, it turned out he didn't know how to read the
individual letters, ABC etc.. but... he knows how to read & memorized
the words or something... I think that's how many of us learned to
read back in the 60s (that's how I learned "see spot run")...
If the dr had something with small words, he could have done the eye
test that way but instead he used pictures. Oh well! Made me realize
how infrequently we actually NEED to know the alphabet or how to read
it or whatever...
If the kid(s) want to do the alphabet & practice numbers over & over,
fine, but I won't push it... I think my older 3 are burned out on that
sort of thing because that's what they did in public school, drilled
numbers & alphabet, etc...
> > but it felt deceptive to dance about theJessica
> > alphabet and jump 3 + 3. As if there is something inherintly not
> > valuable about dance in and of itself, and that somehow because dance
> > was fun and enjoyable, "hey why not teach something at the same time"