Help, husband says we can't unschool anymore
Jennifer
My kids are 7,5, and 2 and have never been to school.
My husband has had doubts about unschooling over the
years. I think he likes the fact that they are home
and have lots of freedom and time, but he has always
expressed concern that they are not having "lessons."
I've tried reading him posts from this and other
sites, talking to him about it, having dinner with
another unschooling family with slightly older kids to
discuss how unschooling works for them, writing down
everything my oldest did in a week to show how much
she's doing and learning, etc.
I hoped that, in time, he would see how well she's
doing and how much she's learning and have more
understanding and confidence that unschooling works.
Well, he told me last night that he firmly doesn't
think we can continue this way, and something
different needs to be done. He just doesn't believe
that people can learn skills like reading, writing,
math without daily structured practice. He thinks we
are doing our kids a real disservice, and he insists
that either I start incorporating that kind of thing,
or he will enroll our oldest in school.
I'm heartbroken and scared.
What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kids
-- to send them to school or to bring it into our
house?
Has anyone ever done some academics to appease the
spouse? If so, what did you do, and how did it go?
Any suggestions/resources/thoughts about how I can do
something that will satisfy him, but cause the least
damage and misery?
Thanks
Jenny
http://beanmommyandthethreebeans.blogspot.com/
My husband has had doubts about unschooling over the
years. I think he likes the fact that they are home
and have lots of freedom and time, but he has always
expressed concern that they are not having "lessons."
I've tried reading him posts from this and other
sites, talking to him about it, having dinner with
another unschooling family with slightly older kids to
discuss how unschooling works for them, writing down
everything my oldest did in a week to show how much
she's doing and learning, etc.
I hoped that, in time, he would see how well she's
doing and how much she's learning and have more
understanding and confidence that unschooling works.
Well, he told me last night that he firmly doesn't
think we can continue this way, and something
different needs to be done. He just doesn't believe
that people can learn skills like reading, writing,
math without daily structured practice. He thinks we
are doing our kids a real disservice, and he insists
that either I start incorporating that kind of thing,
or he will enroll our oldest in school.
I'm heartbroken and scared.
What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kids
-- to send them to school or to bring it into our
house?
Has anyone ever done some academics to appease the
spouse? If so, what did you do, and how did it go?
Any suggestions/resources/thoughts about how I can do
something that will satisfy him, but cause the least
damage and misery?
Thanks
Jenny
http://beanmommyandthethreebeans.blogspot.com/
Sandra Dodd
-=-He thinks we
are doing our kids a real disservice, and he insists
that either I start incorporating that kind of thing,
or he will enroll our oldest in school.
-=-I'm heartbroken and scared. -=-
You're also married. It would be great for you to stay that way.
It's not worth heartbreak.
-=-What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kids-- to send
them to school or to bring it into our house?-=-
Bringing it home would be less damaging, in my opinion, if the kids
want to stay home. If the kids want to go to school, then keeping
them home against their will would be damaging. The question of
"damage" can't be answered without us knowing much more, so it's
better for you to figure out what your beliefs and goals are, and
holding the situation up against that.
Having a happy family seems more important to me than the particulars
of how the kids learn.
It's not the end of the world if you "do school" a bit for a while.
If it doesn't work out well, your husband will see that. If you won't
even make a real good-faith effort, he'll see that too, though. A
divorce will pretty much guarantee school for life. School at home
for a while doesn't preclude less structure as time goes on.
Maybe look at some unit studies sites. You can make things look
really schoolish without them being school-style schoolish. If you
have the money to do it, maybe consider signing up with Clonlara.org
http://sandradodd.com/clonlara.org
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
are doing our kids a real disservice, and he insists
that either I start incorporating that kind of thing,
or he will enroll our oldest in school.
-=-I'm heartbroken and scared. -=-
You're also married. It would be great for you to stay that way.
It's not worth heartbreak.
-=-What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kids-- to send
them to school or to bring it into our house?-=-
Bringing it home would be less damaging, in my opinion, if the kids
want to stay home. If the kids want to go to school, then keeping
them home against their will would be damaging. The question of
"damage" can't be answered without us knowing much more, so it's
better for you to figure out what your beliefs and goals are, and
holding the situation up against that.
Having a happy family seems more important to me than the particulars
of how the kids learn.
It's not the end of the world if you "do school" a bit for a while.
If it doesn't work out well, your husband will see that. If you won't
even make a real good-faith effort, he'll see that too, though. A
divorce will pretty much guarantee school for life. School at home
for a while doesn't preclude less structure as time goes on.
Maybe look at some unit studies sites. You can make things look
really schoolish without them being school-style schoolish. If you
have the money to do it, maybe consider signing up with Clonlara.org
http://sandradodd.com/clonlara.org
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
>http://clonlara.org
That's what I should've said before. My fingers think http:// is
always followed by Sandradodd.com. Magic fingers.
Sorry.
Sandra
graberamy
> What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kidsI would think keeping them home would be best. Your husband is just
> -- to send them to school or to bring it into our
> house?>>>
concerned and wanting what is best for his kids and he really doesn't
know another way. It can be very scary to let that go. Some people
find it difficult to step outside the box.
Your kids are young and what can look like structured learning can
really be fun. So, maybe if it's presented to your husband as more
schooly, he'll see it that way? The Family Math Book
((http://www.amazon.com/Family-Math-Equals-Jean-Stanmark/dp/0912511060)
has some fun stuff. Computer software games, dot to dots, hidden
pictures, tangrams (I'd recommend Grandfather Tangs journey to go along
with it), science experiments (there are tons of books for this stuff),
legos, marshmallows and toothpick building, lots of library trips??
Maybe the kids could pick out something they really liked, like mummy's
or trains and you could do a unit studies on them? And then maybe you
could just do the fun stuff that they like??
Maybe you could sign them up for an art class or join a lego league, or
a library/book club, TKD, scouts, roots and shoots, 4-H, science center
or zoo classes? Maybe that would help your hubby's worrys? Maybe you
could start your own art club, game club, science club or something like
that?
Also, when my husband has moments of worrying I'll cut and paste snip
its of Sandra or Joyce's site (my son is a later reader and so he has
had moments of worry). In the beginning, I would leave books in the
bathroom or magazines. Some copies of growing w/out schooling, dumbing
us down, holt, etc. These might get read in the bathroom [:)] ? And
maybe he'll relax more and trust them more?
Just cause he's feeling this way right now, doesn't mean he'll feel this
way in a month or a year. Maybe he's needing some reassurance right
now? I mean I'm guessing he's probably not wanting to check work or
anything? Maybe he just needs to hear things in schooly terms? Maybe
if they're presented as "lessons"?
Wow, that is a lot of "maybes"!!
Good luck,
amy g
iowa
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robyn Coburn
<<<<< I've tried reading him posts from this and other
and he still has doubts, I would say that these fears are about him,
not what you are doing or not doing.
When my dh gets into a place of doubt about our path, which is
extremely rare, or I do, also rare, it is usually because something
else is happening outside of our family life that is disturbing our
flow or serenity.
Perhaps your dh is having fears about money due to this economic
downturn, and has negative visions of your kids being destitute.
Perhaps some blowhard at his work is boasting about the ap math their
kid is shining in. Perhaps he is having unacknowledged mental
flashbacks to when he was the age your eldest is now and emotions are
being brought to the surface. Maybe gently probing where his fears
are will be helpful.
It is always frustrating when a spouse has the problem but expects
you to implement his or her solution! I feel for you on that. But
experience has shown me that getting caught up in resenting that
dynamic only digs you into a deeper emotional hole.
Being the sounding board for my dh's doubts without judgement (and
that is hard too sometimes!) usually allows him to talk himself out
of the doubts. It usually takes him hearing himself speak to realize
how silly he actually sounds, and for him to realize and acknowledge
the fear he is sitting in at that moment.(eg "Will Jayn ever stop
being so selfish?"). We also talk a lot about our own childhoods. It
has taken many conversations to peel back layers and find hidden
resentments below the obvious ones.
I would try working with your dh on coming up with a plan, focussed
heavily on your dd's interests. Maybe you are imagining a lot more
than he is in terms of "structure". Perhaps clarify exactly what he
means by "lessons", and what his mental timetable is. You might find
that you are envisioning 4 hours at the kitchen table, but he is
thinking of a worksheet every other day.
Also I would step up the strewing.
Finally, you say you have shown him lots of stuff from other
unschoolers, and it hasn't taken. So move on to other educational
experts. Show him some stuff from Montessori and Piaget about child
development, and the research supporting delayed academics.
Keep you goal "helping him relax and trust" rather than having your
goal be "holding on to unschooling for dear life". If you have the
former goal in your heart, your energy will different even while the
words coming out of your mouth are the same.
Good luck,
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
> sites, talking to him about it, having dinner withSince you have done so much showing him of how unschooling can work,
> another unschooling family with slightly older kids to
> discuss how unschooling works for them, writing down
> everything my oldest did in a week to show how much
> she's doing and learning, etc. >>>>>
and he still has doubts, I would say that these fears are about him,
not what you are doing or not doing.
When my dh gets into a place of doubt about our path, which is
extremely rare, or I do, also rare, it is usually because something
else is happening outside of our family life that is disturbing our
flow or serenity.
Perhaps your dh is having fears about money due to this economic
downturn, and has negative visions of your kids being destitute.
Perhaps some blowhard at his work is boasting about the ap math their
kid is shining in. Perhaps he is having unacknowledged mental
flashbacks to when he was the age your eldest is now and emotions are
being brought to the surface. Maybe gently probing where his fears
are will be helpful.
It is always frustrating when a spouse has the problem but expects
you to implement his or her solution! I feel for you on that. But
experience has shown me that getting caught up in resenting that
dynamic only digs you into a deeper emotional hole.
Being the sounding board for my dh's doubts without judgement (and
that is hard too sometimes!) usually allows him to talk himself out
of the doubts. It usually takes him hearing himself speak to realize
how silly he actually sounds, and for him to realize and acknowledge
the fear he is sitting in at that moment.(eg "Will Jayn ever stop
being so selfish?"). We also talk a lot about our own childhoods. It
has taken many conversations to peel back layers and find hidden
resentments below the obvious ones.
I would try working with your dh on coming up with a plan, focussed
heavily on your dd's interests. Maybe you are imagining a lot more
than he is in terms of "structure". Perhaps clarify exactly what he
means by "lessons", and what his mental timetable is. You might find
that you are envisioning 4 hours at the kitchen table, but he is
thinking of a worksheet every other day.
Also I would step up the strewing.
Finally, you say you have shown him lots of stuff from other
unschoolers, and it hasn't taken. So move on to other educational
experts. Show him some stuff from Montessori and Piaget about child
development, and the research supporting delayed academics.
Keep you goal "helping him relax and trust" rather than having your
goal be "holding on to unschooling for dear life". If you have the
former goal in your heart, your energy will different even while the
words coming out of your mouth are the same.
Good luck,
Robyn L. Coburn
www.iggyjingles.blogspot.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-Just cause he's feeling this way right now, doesn't mean he'll
feel this
way in a month or a year. -=-
I'm sure he'll loosen up. Those were really good suggestions, and
this book has lots too:
Trust the Children
http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Children-Activity-Homeschooling-
Alternative/dp/0890877483/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214069671&sr=8-1
If you can't cut and paste the link, just got to Amazon and look it
up. Used from $4.83 and a big book full of fun stuff.
You can mine these places for ideas (just don't tell him where you
got them):
http://sandradodd.com/typical
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/strew/deblist
Or anything by Deb
http://sandradodd.com/deblewis/
Or anything on strewing
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Just don't tell your husband you're unschooling. Tell him you're
teaching in multi-sensory ways, and then DO IT. Do it lots, fast,
but make it fun. Don't be stressed. If you're going to be a stress
case, maybe school would be better. Find ways to be grateful and
hopeful and happy and fun.
Maybe every day you could play here:
http://lyricsgame.blogspot.com
Talk about the pictures and maybe follow the links (sometimes the
pictures are clickable and go somewhere). Think of songs. It will
end up tying in to art, history, vocabulary, spelling, music.
There are other cool online sites for kids with all kinds of games.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
feel this
way in a month or a year. -=-
I'm sure he'll loosen up. Those were really good suggestions, and
this book has lots too:
Trust the Children
http://www.amazon.com/Trust-Children-Activity-Homeschooling-
Alternative/dp/0890877483/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?
ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214069671&sr=8-1
If you can't cut and paste the link, just got to Amazon and look it
up. Used from $4.83 and a big book full of fun stuff.
You can mine these places for ideas (just don't tell him where you
got them):
http://sandradodd.com/typical
http://sandradodd.com/checklists
http://sandradodd.com/strew/deblist
Or anything by Deb
http://sandradodd.com/deblewis/
Or anything on strewing
http://sandradodd.com/strewing
Just don't tell your husband you're unschooling. Tell him you're
teaching in multi-sensory ways, and then DO IT. Do it lots, fast,
but make it fun. Don't be stressed. If you're going to be a stress
case, maybe school would be better. Find ways to be grateful and
hopeful and happy and fun.
Maybe every day you could play here:
http://lyricsgame.blogspot.com
Talk about the pictures and maybe follow the links (sometimes the
pictures are clickable and go somewhere). Think of songs. It will
end up tying in to art, history, vocabulary, spelling, music.
There are other cool online sites for kids with all kinds of games.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
MLewis
I can understand how upset and stressed out you must feel. You Get
It, and your dear spouse doesn't. It's a hard place to be. I've
always Gotten It more than my mate. In the beginning he didn't get
it at all. And while he never put his foot down, he definitely
voiced concerns and at times it got a little bitter and heated. But
he and I have always had a bit of difficulty communicating about all
SORTS of things, so as Mary Gold said "it's not the unschooling". ;-)
I'm going to try and remember this as best I can because after 10
plus years my sweetie doesn't have many issues with it anymore.
I know that with us I had a tendency to try and be very strong and
clear about unschooling being the right way, and in doing so didn't
always communicate ALL of what I was thinking (that is my OWN
concerns.) Probably because I understood that my concerns were NOT
because of the unschooling but tied up with other things (i.e. my
ability to deschool myself) and I was trying to "sell" my guy on
unschooling. Not a good idea!LOL It came off to him as me just
brushing his concerns off. He needed to be HEARD.
You mentioned reading, so I'm guessing that your 7 year old is not
reading and that might be what's getting him stressed out?? Maybe if
you acknowledged that it IS stressful, and that's it's NATURAL to
worry about our kids and that you worry too...
When I dropped my "I've got no worries and I'm sure unschooling is
the answer" stance and let Tim in on my own worries things got WAY
better. When he saw that I had concerns and still thought
unschooling was the way we should go, he was better able to trust
that I was using sound judgement.
I definitely think that it would be better to have the children at
home and do a bit of math work than send them to school and have them
do math work in that environment. Figure out with your honey what
the math goals are, and discuss trying to meet those goals without
worksheets?
It really helped my husband when I talked to him about long-term
goals. That I was thinking ahead and that some short-term goals
(like knowing the multiplication table or such) would interfere with
my larger long-term life goals for the children. That I wasn't
necessarily saying that that was a BAD goal, but that I was
prioritizing. And I got him talking about HIS long-term hopes for
the children. He needed to know that we were both heading the same
way, because he wasn't feeling that at first.
Oh yeah! It also turned out that my trying to share things I was
reading on the web and in books was working AGAINST me! For my guy
at least, he saw that as trying to bring "other people" into
our "private" discussion. WHat he really needed was to hear MY
words, and MY thoughts.
yup...he's kind of black and white about things...and has trouble
with change...and is pretty traditional...LOL What was he THINKING
marrying ME?!?!?! LOL But he always gets it eventually, and I'm in
it for the long haul ;-) But best for the kids if you can have
harmony sooner than later.
Mary
--- In [email protected], Jennifer <beanmommy2@...>
wrote:
It, and your dear spouse doesn't. It's a hard place to be. I've
always Gotten It more than my mate. In the beginning he didn't get
it at all. And while he never put his foot down, he definitely
voiced concerns and at times it got a little bitter and heated. But
he and I have always had a bit of difficulty communicating about all
SORTS of things, so as Mary Gold said "it's not the unschooling". ;-)
I'm going to try and remember this as best I can because after 10
plus years my sweetie doesn't have many issues with it anymore.
I know that with us I had a tendency to try and be very strong and
clear about unschooling being the right way, and in doing so didn't
always communicate ALL of what I was thinking (that is my OWN
concerns.) Probably because I understood that my concerns were NOT
because of the unschooling but tied up with other things (i.e. my
ability to deschool myself) and I was trying to "sell" my guy on
unschooling. Not a good idea!LOL It came off to him as me just
brushing his concerns off. He needed to be HEARD.
You mentioned reading, so I'm guessing that your 7 year old is not
reading and that might be what's getting him stressed out?? Maybe if
you acknowledged that it IS stressful, and that's it's NATURAL to
worry about our kids and that you worry too...
When I dropped my "I've got no worries and I'm sure unschooling is
the answer" stance and let Tim in on my own worries things got WAY
better. When he saw that I had concerns and still thought
unschooling was the way we should go, he was better able to trust
that I was using sound judgement.
I definitely think that it would be better to have the children at
home and do a bit of math work than send them to school and have them
do math work in that environment. Figure out with your honey what
the math goals are, and discuss trying to meet those goals without
worksheets?
It really helped my husband when I talked to him about long-term
goals. That I was thinking ahead and that some short-term goals
(like knowing the multiplication table or such) would interfere with
my larger long-term life goals for the children. That I wasn't
necessarily saying that that was a BAD goal, but that I was
prioritizing. And I got him talking about HIS long-term hopes for
the children. He needed to know that we were both heading the same
way, because he wasn't feeling that at first.
Oh yeah! It also turned out that my trying to share things I was
reading on the web and in books was working AGAINST me! For my guy
at least, he saw that as trying to bring "other people" into
our "private" discussion. WHat he really needed was to hear MY
words, and MY thoughts.
yup...he's kind of black and white about things...and has trouble
with change...and is pretty traditional...LOL What was he THINKING
marrying ME?!?!?! LOL But he always gets it eventually, and I'm in
it for the long haul ;-) But best for the kids if you can have
harmony sooner than later.
Mary
--- In [email protected], Jennifer <beanmommy2@...>
wrote:
>
> My kids are 7,5, and 2 and have never been to school.
>
> My husband has had doubts about unschooling over the
> years. I think he likes the fact that they are home
> and have lots of freedom and time, but he has always
> expressed concern that they are not having "lessons."
>
> I've tried reading him posts from this and other
> sites, talking to him about it, having dinner with
> another unschooling family with slightly older kids to
> discuss how unschooling works for them, writing down
> everything my oldest did in a week to show how much
> she's doing and learning, etc.
>
> I hoped that, in time, he would see how well she's
> doing and how much she's learning and have more
> understanding and confidence that unschooling works.
>
> Well, he told me last night that he firmly doesn't
> think we can continue this way, and something
> different needs to be done. He just doesn't believe
> that people can learn skills like reading, writing,
> math without daily structured practice. He thinks we
> are doing our kids a real disservice, and he insists
> that either I start incorporating that kind of thing,
> or he will enroll our oldest in school.
>
> I'm heartbroken and scared.
>
> What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kids
> -- to send them to school or to bring it into our
> house?
>
> Has anyone ever done some academics to appease the
> spouse? If so, what did you do, and how did it go?
>
> Any suggestions/resources/thoughts about how I can do
> something that will satisfy him, but cause the least
> damage and misery?
>
>
> Thanks
> Jenny
>
>
> http://beanmommyandthethreebeans.blogspot.com/
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-You might find
that you are envisioning 4 hours at the kitchen table, but he is
thinking of a worksheet every other day.-=-
Oh! Another good point I hadn't considered.
Look online for early reading worksheets or games, because LOTS of
things are considered "reading" in school that aren't even nearly
"reading" outside of school. Sequencing, for one. Mixing up the
order of pictures from a fairy tale, or from an action (fishing pole
empty, kid walking; line in water; kid walking carrying fish). You
could find/buy/make things like that, maybe.
Stopping a video and saying "What do you think will happen next?" or
stopping when you're reading to discuss what might happen next is WAY
better than asking a kid to summarize later. You can tell whether
he's paying attention and what he's not understanding. You might
also discover he doesn't give a rat's ass what happens next, and you
can close that book or turn off that show and do something else. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that you are envisioning 4 hours at the kitchen table, but he is
thinking of a worksheet every other day.-=-
Oh! Another good point I hadn't considered.
Look online for early reading worksheets or games, because LOTS of
things are considered "reading" in school that aren't even nearly
"reading" outside of school. Sequencing, for one. Mixing up the
order of pictures from a fairy tale, or from an action (fishing pole
empty, kid walking; line in water; kid walking carrying fish). You
could find/buy/make things like that, maybe.
Stopping a video and saying "What do you think will happen next?" or
stopping when you're reading to discuss what might happen next is WAY
better than asking a kid to summarize later. You can tell whether
he's paying attention and what he's not understanding. You might
also discover he doesn't give a rat's ass what happens next, and you
can close that book or turn off that show and do something else. <bwg>
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I definitely think that it would be better to have the children at
home and do a bit of math work than send them to school and have them
do math work in that environment. Figure out with your honey what
the math goals are, and discuss trying to meet those goals without
worksheets?-=-
I agree, except the "do math work" part.
Play games, count things, measure things. Play with dice. Learn
math, don't "do math work."
But these suggestions are in large part reminders to just DO
UNSCHOOLING. Make your lives busy and happy so the learning is just
flowing through the whole house, in the car, your whole lives. How
could your husband doubt the learning if he's part of it?
If you're not at that point yet, stop talking about unschooling,
start talking about homeschooling (which unschooling is anyway, and
if anyone tells you otherwise, please send them to me because I'm
getting tired of the argument and would like to nip some of the
season's bad advice in the bud).
Do unit studies, do it like a big fun game.
Here's one:
http://sandradodd.com/dot/elvis
While you're on YouTube, poke around for some other similar things,
and follow those trails.
I'm hoping none of the suggestions for strewing and activities that
people are suggesting for this thread seem like a lot of work or too
much exploration for anyone here.
If anyone here is waiting around for kids to learn without making
their lives rich and busy, please either get busier or stop saying
"unschooling."
Seriously, it's been an odd season with people coming and wanting
THIS list to give them some kind of refund or customer service on
some bad ideas they've picked up elsewhere.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
home and do a bit of math work than send them to school and have them
do math work in that environment. Figure out with your honey what
the math goals are, and discuss trying to meet those goals without
worksheets?-=-
I agree, except the "do math work" part.
Play games, count things, measure things. Play with dice. Learn
math, don't "do math work."
But these suggestions are in large part reminders to just DO
UNSCHOOLING. Make your lives busy and happy so the learning is just
flowing through the whole house, in the car, your whole lives. How
could your husband doubt the learning if he's part of it?
If you're not at that point yet, stop talking about unschooling,
start talking about homeschooling (which unschooling is anyway, and
if anyone tells you otherwise, please send them to me because I'm
getting tired of the argument and would like to nip some of the
season's bad advice in the bud).
Do unit studies, do it like a big fun game.
Here's one:
http://sandradodd.com/dot/elvis
While you're on YouTube, poke around for some other similar things,
and follow those trails.
I'm hoping none of the suggestions for strewing and activities that
people are suggesting for this thread seem like a lot of work or too
much exploration for anyone here.
If anyone here is waiting around for kids to learn without making
their lives rich and busy, please either get busier or stop saying
"unschooling."
Seriously, it's been an odd season with people coming and wanting
THIS list to give them some kind of refund or customer service on
some bad ideas they've picked up elsewhere.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jenny C
> Well, he told me last night that he firmly doesn'tI remember you had previous issues in this regard. Is your MIL still
> think we can continue this way, and something
> different needs to be done. He just doesn't believe
> that people can learn skills like reading, writing,
> math without daily structured practice. He thinks we
> are doing our kids a real disservice, and he insists
> that either I start incorporating that kind of thing,
> or he will enroll our oldest in school.
>
> I'm heartbroken and scared.
>
> What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kids
> -- to send them to school or to bring it into our
> house?
playing him against you? If this is the case, my response would be to
agree to homeschool as long as he agrees not to discuss it with his
mother. Keeping them home and doing school work would be far less
damaging than sending them to school.
Spousal agreement is best for your kids. If down the road, you end up
divorced and you've been homeschooling, not unschooling, you're more
likely to be able to continue homeschooling, since it sounds like he's
somewhat in agreement to homeschooling. If you disagree so much about
how you homeschool and it causes a divorce now, you'll likely never get
the chance to homeschool at all!
Jenny C
> I would try working with your dh on coming up with a plan, focussedThis is a great idea! Get him involved in the planning. Since he seems
> heavily on your dd's interests. Maybe you are imagining a lot more
> than he is in terms of "structure". Perhaps clarify exactly what he
> means by "lessons", and what his mental timetable is. You might find
> that you are envisioning 4 hours at the kitchen table, but he is
> thinking of a worksheet every other day.
>
to have an idea of what he wants, get him to help plan it out and
discuss ways to implement it. Afterall, you both have an idea of what
is best. School at home seems to be a nice middle ground for now. As
the kids get older, maybe he'll relax and get a better understanding of
how kids learn, and how specifically HIS kids learn best.
MLewis
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
assumption that "math work" was what the dh was wanting to see, and
was hoping she can steer it into something better as in your
suggestions. Even doing the good stuff like cooking or playing with
dice is best without a math "agenda", but would be a better
compromise than worksheets.
I shudder to think anyone would think I was ADVOCATING "math work"!
Yikes.
Mary
>at
> -=-I definitely think that it would be better to have the children
> home and do a bit of math work than send them to school and havethem
> do math work in that environment. Figure out with your honey whatYeah...it was hard to even write it!LOL But I was going on the
> the math goals are, and discuss trying to meet those goals without
> worksheets?-=-
>
> I agree, except the "do math work" part.
>
> Play games, count things, measure things. Play with dice. Learn
> math, don't "do math work."
assumption that "math work" was what the dh was wanting to see, and
was hoping she can steer it into something better as in your
suggestions. Even doing the good stuff like cooking or playing with
dice is best without a math "agenda", but would be a better
compromise than worksheets.
I shudder to think anyone would think I was ADVOCATING "math work"!
Yikes.
Mary
elwazani
--- In [email protected], Jennifer <beanmommy2@...>
wrote:
structure things a bit differently...Take a look at your daily
activities and see how they might be identified as "school", turning
things into unit studies almost...when you have the kids help with
the grocery list, copy that and stick it in a folder marked
handwriting...then at the store have a "basic" math lesson, keep
track of what you did and show him the Math work, We have a kids cook
book with recipes from around the world and information about the
culture and geography etc, that I kid you not, I could use just that
as a jumping off point for a whole years study for my three youngest-
ages 5-15...Here in Ohio we have to have a porfolio review or do
standardized test at the end of each year...So it puts me into a
well, let's see... what is our Literature, or Geography etc...We do 4-
H so every year the kids have to pick a project to work on, that ends
up being fairly schoolish and we have lots to show in our portfolios
too, I would try to make it as stress free of an introduction to
changes and maybe every one can be happy. Beverly
wrote:
>You might be able to basically keep doing as you have been, but
> My kids are 7,5, and 2 and have never been to school.
>
> My husband has had doubts about unschooling over the
> years. > Well, he told me last night that he firmly doesn't
> think we can continue this way, and something
> different needs to be done.
> What do I do?? What would be less damaging to my kids
> -- to send them to school or to bring it into our
> house?
> Any suggestions/resources/thoughts about how I can do
> something that will satisfy him, but cause the least
> damage and misery?
> Thanks
> Jenny
structure things a bit differently...Take a look at your daily
activities and see how they might be identified as "school", turning
things into unit studies almost...when you have the kids help with
the grocery list, copy that and stick it in a folder marked
handwriting...then at the store have a "basic" math lesson, keep
track of what you did and show him the Math work, We have a kids cook
book with recipes from around the world and information about the
culture and geography etc, that I kid you not, I could use just that
as a jumping off point for a whole years study for my three youngest-
ages 5-15...Here in Ohio we have to have a porfolio review or do
standardized test at the end of each year...So it puts me into a
well, let's see... what is our Literature, or Geography etc...We do 4-
H so every year the kids have to pick a project to work on, that ends
up being fairly schoolish and we have lots to show in our portfolios
too, I would try to make it as stress free of an introduction to
changes and maybe every one can be happy. Beverly
graberamy
> Do unit studies, do it like a big fun game.WOW, that's impressive. I wish my brain worked at half that speed!!
>
> Here's one:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/dot/elvis>>>
You can do the same thing with movies, but be prepared and have the
remote next to you!!
When you sit down and watch with them, it's amazing where the movie
takes them. About a month ago we watched My Dog Skip, a really cute
movie and man did it get my kids asking questions! From pet care, to
what started ww2,who's hitler, what's prohibition, what's a victory
garden, why can't the black kids play ball with the white kids (what
an embarrassing part of history to explain), discussing that it's the
era their grandparents were raised, how much things cost then, which
led to an inflation discussion, etc. etc.
Not as fluid as Sandra's Elvis unit, but you get the gist. Maybe if
you do something as simple as watching a movie together and then
breaking it down for him in schooly terms?
> While you're on YouTube, poke around for some other similar things,My kids LOVE youtube! They find the coolest and the funniest things
> and follow those trails.>>>
on there! Graham thinks family guy is just the best thing since
sliced bread and he and the hubby were watching the voice overs for it
on youtube. We all ended up watching and LEARNING a lot! Very cool!
You could also have him join in on Learn Nothing day and see if it
could be done...;)!!
amy g
iowa
>
Sandra Dodd
-=-When my dh gets into a place of doubt about our path, which is
extremely rare, or I do, also rare, it is usually because something
else is happening outside of our family life that is disturbing our
flow or serenity. -=-
But first you decided together to unschool.
If a couple did NOT decide, and one person is saying no, then there
is no "our path."
A wife who has bought a yacht her husband didn't even know about and
didn't want can't write "When my dh gets into a place of doubt about
our yacht ownership..."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
extremely rare, or I do, also rare, it is usually because something
else is happening outside of our family life that is disturbing our
flow or serenity. -=-
But first you decided together to unschool.
If a couple did NOT decide, and one person is saying no, then there
is no "our path."
A wife who has bought a yacht her husband didn't even know about and
didn't want can't write "When my dh gets into a place of doubt about
our yacht ownership..."
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Is your MIL still
playing him against you? If this is the case, my response would be to
agree to homeschool as long as he agrees not to discuss it with his
mother. -=-
What would any of you take as a concession from a husband if it
involved you agreeing not to speak to your own mother? That seems
unreasonable.
It also seems the quick-road to full school enrollment.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
playing him against you? If this is the case, my response would be to
agree to homeschool as long as he agrees not to discuss it with his
mother. -=-
What would any of you take as a concession from a husband if it
involved you agreeing not to speak to your own mother? That seems
unreasonable.
It also seems the quick-road to full school enrollment.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
logan_rose_porter
--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
important to you in life.....you find a way to make it work! I hate the idea that somebody
would think the dependancy is so strong, that you could never have what you have now, so
dont rock the boat, obey. Its just not true, it can and does work- you just have to really want
it! (the unschooling that is- not the divorce ;)).
>. If you disagree so much aboutWhy is this??? I have heard several people say this....Im single and unschooling. If thats whats
> how you homeschool and it causes a divorce now, you'll likely never get
> the chance to homeschool at all!
>
important to you in life.....you find a way to make it work! I hate the idea that somebody
would think the dependancy is so strong, that you could never have what you have now, so
dont rock the boat, obey. Its just not true, it can and does work- you just have to really want
it! (the unschooling that is- not the divorce ;)).
Schuyler
There are a number of costs to being a single parent and to divorce. One of the costs is economic. But another one is having a third party, the court, negotiate between different points of view. If your husband, soon to be ex, isn't comfortable with homeschooling in general or unschooling in particular the court may actually decide that your children must go to school. So whether or not you are able, as a single parent, to afford a life of you being at home may be moot if your children have been mandated by the court to go to school.
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----------------
Schuyler
www.waynforth.blogspot.com
----------------
--- In [email protected], "Jenny C" <jenstarc4@...> wrote:
>. If you disagree so much about
> how you homeschool and it causes a divorce now, you'll likely never get
> the chance to homeschool at all!
>
Why is this??? I have heard several people say this....Im single and unschooling. If thats whats
important to you in life.....you find a way to make it work! I hate the idea that somebody
would think the dependancy is so strong, that you could never have what you have now, so
dont rock the boat, obey. Its just not true, it can and does work- you just have to really want
it! (the unschooling that is- not the divorce ;)).
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I hate the idea that somebody
would think the dependancy is so strong, that you could never have
what you have now, so
dont rock the boat, obey.-=-
"Obey"?
Is that really what you see in that?
There have been dads come here and similar places saying "I really
want to homeschool, but my wife doesn't want to," or "I really get
unschooling but my wife's not interested." They get the same
advice. If you don't go easy and find a way to agree, you not only
don't even start off with the ability to unschool, but you risk
ruining the kids' hope of happiness with a divorce.
A child's dependency IS strong and parents shouldn't cavalierly risk
that, when there are two parents in the picture.
As to "don't rock the boat," that's a great phrase to use. Without
mutual agreement, there *IS* no boat.
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
People figure out how to survive and make do when conditions aren't
ideal, but a richness of life and an abundance is better than
unschooling under a cloud of resentment and pressure and dishonesty.
There are ways to move toward unschooling and to help the hesitant
partner to understand it, and that's what's being advised in all
those really great posts. Nobody said "obey." Well, one person
did. :-/
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
would think the dependancy is so strong, that you could never have
what you have now, so
dont rock the boat, obey.-=-
"Obey"?
Is that really what you see in that?
There have been dads come here and similar places saying "I really
want to homeschool, but my wife doesn't want to," or "I really get
unschooling but my wife's not interested." They get the same
advice. If you don't go easy and find a way to agree, you not only
don't even start off with the ability to unschool, but you risk
ruining the kids' hope of happiness with a divorce.
A child's dependency IS strong and parents shouldn't cavalierly risk
that, when there are two parents in the picture.
As to "don't rock the boat," that's a great phrase to use. Without
mutual agreement, there *IS* no boat.
http://sandradodd.com/divorce
People figure out how to survive and make do when conditions aren't
ideal, but a richness of life and an abundance is better than
unschooling under a cloud of resentment and pressure and dishonesty.
There are ways to move toward unschooling and to help the hesitant
partner to understand it, and that's what's being advised in all
those really great posts. Nobody said "obey." Well, one person
did. :-/
Sandra
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
swissarmy_wife
I'm really glad its all working out for you! That's great. I am
amazed by single, working, homeschooling moms. I have wondered how I
would d it, if I had do. However, that statement is a reality. I
personally know 2 homeschooling families who have older children from
a previous marriage, who can't even homeschool with a curriculum
because of opposition from an ex-husband. One family in particular
had already been homeschooling. The courts ruled that they had to go
to school.
It caused some issues around the state I think, I heard lots of
chitter chatter about it. Because the issues of divorce and the
children's education should have been treated separately. Yet they
became legally interwined. Truly, truly, unfortunate.
-Heather
--- In [email protected], "logan_rose_porter"
<logan_rose_porter@...> wrote:
amazed by single, working, homeschooling moms. I have wondered how I
would d it, if I had do. However, that statement is a reality. I
personally know 2 homeschooling families who have older children from
a previous marriage, who can't even homeschool with a curriculum
because of opposition from an ex-husband. One family in particular
had already been homeschooling. The courts ruled that they had to go
to school.
It caused some issues around the state I think, I heard lots of
chitter chatter about it. Because the issues of divorce and the
children's education should have been treated separately. Yet they
became legally interwined. Truly, truly, unfortunate.
-Heather
--- In [email protected], "logan_rose_porter"
<logan_rose_porter@...> wrote:
> Why is this??? I have heard several people say this....Im single andunschooling. If thats whats
> important to you in life.....you find a way to make it work! I hatethe idea that somebody
> would think the dependancy is so strong, that you could never havewhat you have now, so
> dont rock the boat, obey. Its just not true, it can and does work-you just have to really want
> it! (the unschooling that is- not the divorce ;)).
>
logan_rose_porter
Ah okay, I didnt realize that the courts could actually prevent you from homeschooling!
That's pretty awful. I have never heard of that happening here (Australia).
Thanks for clarifying :)
That's pretty awful. I have never heard of that happening here (Australia).
Thanks for clarifying :)
--- In [email protected], "swissarmy_wife" <heatherbean@...> wrote:
>
> I'm really glad its all working out for you! That's great. I am
> amazed by single, working, homeschooling moms. I have wondered how I
> would d it, if I had do. However, that statement is a reality. I
> personally know 2 homeschooling families who have older children from
> a previous marriage, who can't even homeschool with a curriculum
> because of opposition from an ex-husband. One family in particular
> had already been homeschooling. The courts ruled that they had to go
> to school.
>
> It caused some issues around the state I think, I heard lots of
> chitter chatter about it. Because the issues of divorce and the
> children's education should have been treated separately. Yet they
> became legally interwined. Truly, truly, unfortunate.
>
> -Heather
>
> --- In [email protected], "logan_rose_porter"
> <logan_rose_porter@> wrote:
>
> > Why is this??? I have heard several people say this....Im single and
> unschooling. If thats whats
> > important to you in life.....you find a way to make it work! I hate
> the idea that somebody
> > would think the dependancy is so strong, that you could never have
> what you have now, so
> > dont rock the boat, obey. Its just not true, it can and does work-
> you just have to really want
> > it! (the unschooling that is- not the divorce ;)).
> >
>
Ren Allen
~~. If you don't go easy and find a way to agree, you not only
don't even start off with the ability to unschool, but you risk
ruining the kids' hope of happiness with a divorce.~~
I disagree.
I rocked the proverbial boat BIG time. I refused to play along at
things I did NOT agree with. I told my dh that if he wanted to teach
the children math concepts or whatever he deemed necessary he was
welcome and I would be fine with that, but don't ask me to do
something that would eat away at my very spirit because I did not feel
it was helping my relationship with my children.
I don't think we'd be where we are now if I'd fed his fears by going
along with what he wanted. I know without a doubt that we got here
partly by his eventual willingness to learn and change, and hugely
because I refused to do what he thought necessary.
My huge issue with this entire scenario is that there are deeper
issues in a relationship if a spouse is laying down the law and saying
"this is what will happen" rather than "how can we make this work?"
I was fine with other solutions that didn't involve me being made to
do something I didn't agree with. NObody should be trying to control
anyone else in the family and if a spouse says "here's how it's going
to be" there are a lot of issues to be dealt with before unschooling
will work. Sounds like a focus on the trust in the relationship might
need to come first.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
don't even start off with the ability to unschool, but you risk
ruining the kids' hope of happiness with a divorce.~~
I disagree.
I rocked the proverbial boat BIG time. I refused to play along at
things I did NOT agree with. I told my dh that if he wanted to teach
the children math concepts or whatever he deemed necessary he was
welcome and I would be fine with that, but don't ask me to do
something that would eat away at my very spirit because I did not feel
it was helping my relationship with my children.
I don't think we'd be where we are now if I'd fed his fears by going
along with what he wanted. I know without a doubt that we got here
partly by his eventual willingness to learn and change, and hugely
because I refused to do what he thought necessary.
My huge issue with this entire scenario is that there are deeper
issues in a relationship if a spouse is laying down the law and saying
"this is what will happen" rather than "how can we make this work?"
I was fine with other solutions that didn't involve me being made to
do something I didn't agree with. NObody should be trying to control
anyone else in the family and if a spouse says "here's how it's going
to be" there are a lot of issues to be dealt with before unschooling
will work. Sounds like a focus on the trust in the relationship might
need to come first.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ren Allen
~~One family in particular
had already been homeschooling. The courts ruled that they had to go
to school.
~~
This will happen in almost EVERY case when and ex disagrees with
homeschooling and takes it to court. The courts are not kind to women
and children most of the time. Nor do they understand much about
homeschooling so they go with what they think is best.
So if you have a situation where a divorce is definite, be aware that
your right to homeschool only extends as far as the ex is willing to
allow it. Talk about control eh? It sucks.But I think what people
forget in most divorce cases is that you are still stuck with whatever
behaviors or difficulties you have with that person.
I was fortunate.
My dh and I were headed for divorce back in 2000.I was a single Mum
for a little over six months. It was a very amicable separation and we
would have continued our happy unschooling life without any problems.
He was totally supportive and present...we still viewed ourselves as
partners in raising the children. That isn't always the case
though...some exes can make your life a living hell,even moreso when
you're apart.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
had already been homeschooling. The courts ruled that they had to go
to school.
~~
This will happen in almost EVERY case when and ex disagrees with
homeschooling and takes it to court. The courts are not kind to women
and children most of the time. Nor do they understand much about
homeschooling so they go with what they think is best.
So if you have a situation where a divorce is definite, be aware that
your right to homeschool only extends as far as the ex is willing to
allow it. Talk about control eh? It sucks.But I think what people
forget in most divorce cases is that you are still stuck with whatever
behaviors or difficulties you have with that person.
I was fortunate.
My dh and I were headed for divorce back in 2000.I was a single Mum
for a little over six months. It was a very amicable separation and we
would have continued our happy unschooling life without any problems.
He was totally supportive and present...we still viewed ourselves as
partners in raising the children. That isn't always the case
though...some exes can make your life a living hell,even moreso when
you're apart.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Ed Wendell
Don't assume the kids get to live with mom either - The kids could be "given" to the dad by the courts and weekend visitation to the mom - I saw one case of a friend where the dad got the kids and she had to work to pay child support to the dad!!!!! AND he was the one that cheated on her - which is why she asked for the divorce in the first place. Divorce can be very nasty and ugly if the parties involved are fighting and being vindictive.
I saw my own parents divorce after 25 years of marriage - A marriage I remember as being "just fine" no fighting, abuse, etc. The 3 older of us children were grown, I was 18 and next to the youngest but my younger sister was only 5. It was ugly for years and years afterwards - my mom suddenly walked out on dad for another man, I saw my dad get down on his knees and beg my mom not to leave him. My brother was 21 and he did not speak to my mom for 20 years - while my older sister and I struggled mightily with it all - things like where do you stay when you go home to visit - as we would not stay with mom due to the man, etc. Anyway, I watched my dad struggle to pay child support and had no say so in how the money was spent - for instance the other man could spend it on his kids, go to the bars, etc. I saw my dad buy things for my sister and then the other man would sell it for the money. If my dad took my sister shopping and bought her clothes or bought groceries for them it did not count as child support - he had to pay the money / cash. When my younger sister was with dad she never mentioned mom and when she was with mom she never mentioned dad. When she was old enough to ask, she asked to live with dad (high school) but mom fought it; so back to court they had to go and the courts said yes. It's been 27 years and my dad has passed away BUT it still effects our family dynamics.
I'm not saying one should stay in an abusive relationship of course BUT I agree that hitting things head on like a train wreck is not always the best solution. I love some of the suggestions about slow and steady concerning the homeschooling.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I saw my own parents divorce after 25 years of marriage - A marriage I remember as being "just fine" no fighting, abuse, etc. The 3 older of us children were grown, I was 18 and next to the youngest but my younger sister was only 5. It was ugly for years and years afterwards - my mom suddenly walked out on dad for another man, I saw my dad get down on his knees and beg my mom not to leave him. My brother was 21 and he did not speak to my mom for 20 years - while my older sister and I struggled mightily with it all - things like where do you stay when you go home to visit - as we would not stay with mom due to the man, etc. Anyway, I watched my dad struggle to pay child support and had no say so in how the money was spent - for instance the other man could spend it on his kids, go to the bars, etc. I saw my dad buy things for my sister and then the other man would sell it for the money. If my dad took my sister shopping and bought her clothes or bought groceries for them it did not count as child support - he had to pay the money / cash. When my younger sister was with dad she never mentioned mom and when she was with mom she never mentioned dad. When she was old enough to ask, she asked to live with dad (high school) but mom fought it; so back to court they had to go and the courts said yes. It's been 27 years and my dad has passed away BUT it still effects our family dynamics.
I'm not saying one should stay in an abusive relationship of course BUT I agree that hitting things head on like a train wreck is not always the best solution. I love some of the suggestions about slow and steady concerning the homeschooling.
Lisa W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-Because the issues of divorce and the
children's education should have been treated separately. Yet they
became legally interwined. Truly, truly, unfortunate. -=-
How could children's ANYTHING be treated separately from a divorce?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
children's education should have been treated separately. Yet they
became legally interwined. Truly, truly, unfortunate. -=-
How could children's ANYTHING be treated separately from a divorce?
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
swissarmy_wife
I guess I don't understand what you mean?
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Because the issues of divorce and the
> children's education should have been treated separately. Yet they
> became legally interwined. Truly, truly, unfortunate. -=-
>
> How could children's ANYTHING be treated separately from a divorce?
>
>
>
> Sandra
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Ginger and Jeff Sabo
I'm a dad who's been watching this thread for a few days and would like to
weigh in.
I'm wondering if the real issue at the heart of the original post isn't
significantly deeper than unschooling. We're talking about a spouse who is
practicing "I don't care what's important to you, do this or else" behavior.
Now, there are a couple of resolution paths here. First, we need to look
at the husband's words and actions and try to figure out what his motivation
is for them - is it a fundamental disagreement with unschooling, and if so,
why (concern about develpment, socialization, future "success", etc.) Can we
find a way to allay those fears with facts?
Or is it a disagreement about parenting styles that is leading him to want
to gain control of something, that merely reflects itself in the unschooling
lifestyle because it's an easy target (which might suggest family or
marriage counseling.)
Or, most troubling, is this a fundamental disrespect issue in which the
husband is attempting to assert his beliefs because he does not value the
wife's beliefs (likely about far more than unschooling, if this is the
case?) This is the one that could potentially lead to a divorce, I suppose -
counseling first to see if it's reconcilable maybe? But here's my concern -
if a spouse stays in a relationship in which they're not respected and
acquiesces to "do it my way or else" behavior from their partner to "keep
the peace" or "save the children", do those two goals ever get met? Of
course not - they merely lead to house in which one partner is dominating,
one is disrespected and bitter, and the kids are caught in the middle and
learning BOTH of those behavior sets because that's what's being modeled for
them. That's scary - I know, it's how I grew up and it's taken me a long
time to get through.
So I guess what I'm saying is that unschooling is a lifestyle choice - and
like any lifestyle choice, it presupposes a household environment of respect
and dignity for everyone. I think you have to resolve that stuff first
before you can consider how to live your lives together. If you have that
foundation, then you have a foundation from which to support and help each
other through doubt, uncertainty, and misunderstanding.
Jeff Sabo
http://freeboysdad.blogspot.com
weigh in.
I'm wondering if the real issue at the heart of the original post isn't
significantly deeper than unschooling. We're talking about a spouse who is
practicing "I don't care what's important to you, do this or else" behavior.
Now, there are a couple of resolution paths here. First, we need to look
at the husband's words and actions and try to figure out what his motivation
is for them - is it a fundamental disagreement with unschooling, and if so,
why (concern about develpment, socialization, future "success", etc.) Can we
find a way to allay those fears with facts?
Or is it a disagreement about parenting styles that is leading him to want
to gain control of something, that merely reflects itself in the unschooling
lifestyle because it's an easy target (which might suggest family or
marriage counseling.)
Or, most troubling, is this a fundamental disrespect issue in which the
husband is attempting to assert his beliefs because he does not value the
wife's beliefs (likely about far more than unschooling, if this is the
case?) This is the one that could potentially lead to a divorce, I suppose -
counseling first to see if it's reconcilable maybe? But here's my concern -
if a spouse stays in a relationship in which they're not respected and
acquiesces to "do it my way or else" behavior from their partner to "keep
the peace" or "save the children", do those two goals ever get met? Of
course not - they merely lead to house in which one partner is dominating,
one is disrespected and bitter, and the kids are caught in the middle and
learning BOTH of those behavior sets because that's what's being modeled for
them. That's scary - I know, it's how I grew up and it's taken me a long
time to get through.
So I guess what I'm saying is that unschooling is a lifestyle choice - and
like any lifestyle choice, it presupposes a household environment of respect
and dignity for everyone. I think you have to resolve that stuff first
before you can consider how to live your lives together. If you have that
foundation, then you have a foundation from which to support and help each
other through doubt, uncertainty, and misunderstanding.
Jeff Sabo
http://freeboysdad.blogspot.com
On Sun, Jun 22, 2008 at 7:18 AM, Ed Wendell <ewendell@...> wrote:
> Don't assume the kids get to live with mom either - The kids could be
> "given" to the dad by the courts and weekend visitation to the mom - I saw
> one case of a friend where the dad got the kids and she had to work to pay
> child support to the dad!!!!! AND he was the one that cheated on her - which
> is why she asked for the divorce in the first place. Divorce can be very
> nasty and ugly if the parties involved are fighting and being vindictive.
>
> I saw my own parents divorce after 25 years of marriage - A marriage I
> remember as being "just fine" no fighting, abuse, etc. The 3 older of us
> children were grown, I was 18 and next to the youngest but my younger sister
> was only 5. It was ugly for years and years afterwards - my mom suddenly
> walked out on dad for another man, I saw my dad get down on his knees and
> beg my mom not to leave him. My brother was 21 and he did not speak to my
> mom for 20 years - while my older sister and I struggled mightily with it
> all - things like where do you stay when you go home to visit - as we would
> not stay with mom due to the man, etc. Anyway, I watched my dad struggle to
> pay child support and had no say so in how the money was spent - for
> instance the other man could spend it on his kids, go to the bars, etc. I
> saw my dad buy things for my sister and then the other man would sell it for
> the money. If my dad took my sister shopping and bought her clothes or
> bought groceries for them it did not count as child support - he had to pay
> the money / cash. When my younger sister was with dad she never mentioned
> mom and when she was with mom she never mentioned dad. When she was old
> enough to ask, she asked to live with dad (high school) but mom fought it;
> so back to court they had to go and the courts said yes. It's been 27 years
> and my dad has passed away BUT it still effects our family dynamics.
>
> I'm not saying one should stay in an abusive relationship of course BUT I
> agree that hitting things head on like a train wreck is not always the best
> solution. I love some of the suggestions about slow and steady concerning
> the homeschooling.
>
> Lisa W.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
--
In peace and love,
Ginger
Annie(18), Kai(9) and Kade(6)
http://twofreeboysplus3.blogspot.com/
LOVE has impact.
"It's not our differences that divide us. It is our inability to recognize,
accept and celebrate those differences." - Audre Lorde
http://www.savetherain.org/
favorite song...http://www.manitobamusic.com/play.php?vc=9
or is it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akevZTqMe-U
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-NObody should be trying to control
anyone else in the family and if a spouse says "here's how it's going
to be" there are a lot of issues to be dealt with before unschooling
will work.-=-
Sure but that includes the mom saying "Here's how it's going to be"
about unschooling.
-=-Sounds like a focus on the trust in the relationship might need to
come first.-=-
Put the kids in school to work on the relationship? Work on the
relationship in the midst of telling the dad it's none of his business?
Dad's gain confidence in unschooling when they see their kids
learning naturally. Even if a mom is "doing" something schoolish for
an hour or two a day, she could pretty easily document how much more
was learned in fun, easy natural ways on those same days. I figure
it wouldn't take but a few months for the dad to relax back down to
"whatever."
A mom who forgets their the dad's kids too risks them being the dad's
kids ONLY. I'm seeing this unfold in slow motion with a friend
who's not involved in unschooling, but she wants to homeschool. Her
child's father is in England and the mom's in northern New Mexico.
At every turn she's telling the dad she doesn't care what he wants or
thinks. It's building up to blow. He'll likely have custody and the
mom will have occasional visitation, if she doesn't chill out very
soon. The girl is only six or seven, and the mom is rejecting every
bit of advice anyone offers.
The dad can't "make" a mom create a school, but the dad can ask a mom
to be a little more structured or pro-active, and the mom can collect
some of the MANY artsy and fun ways to do that that people have been
throwing out on this list and that are all over the internet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
anyone else in the family and if a spouse says "here's how it's going
to be" there are a lot of issues to be dealt with before unschooling
will work.-=-
Sure but that includes the mom saying "Here's how it's going to be"
about unschooling.
-=-Sounds like a focus on the trust in the relationship might need to
come first.-=-
Put the kids in school to work on the relationship? Work on the
relationship in the midst of telling the dad it's none of his business?
Dad's gain confidence in unschooling when they see their kids
learning naturally. Even if a mom is "doing" something schoolish for
an hour or two a day, she could pretty easily document how much more
was learned in fun, easy natural ways on those same days. I figure
it wouldn't take but a few months for the dad to relax back down to
"whatever."
A mom who forgets their the dad's kids too risks them being the dad's
kids ONLY. I'm seeing this unfold in slow motion with a friend
who's not involved in unschooling, but she wants to homeschool. Her
child's father is in England and the mom's in northern New Mexico.
At every turn she's telling the dad she doesn't care what he wants or
thinks. It's building up to blow. He'll likely have custody and the
mom will have occasional visitation, if she doesn't chill out very
soon. The girl is only six or seven, and the mom is rejecting every
bit of advice anyone offers.
The dad can't "make" a mom create a school, but the dad can ask a mom
to be a little more structured or pro-active, and the mom can collect
some of the MANY artsy and fun ways to do that that people have been
throwing out on this list and that are all over the internet.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-I guess I don't understand what you mean? -=-
Every fiber of a child's being is affected by parents and divorce
changes everything.
When parents have agreed that a child goes to a public school, or a
private school, or not to school, that happens because the parents
agreed.
EVERYTHING is off when the divorce comes. Nothing is guaranteed to
anyone anymore. What is guaranteed for the kids is that their lives
will be split and awkward from then on.
How could homeschooling exist separate from a marriage and not be a
consideration at the time of a divorce?
Sandra
Every fiber of a child's being is affected by parents and divorce
changes everything.
When parents have agreed that a child goes to a public school, or a
private school, or not to school, that happens because the parents
agreed.
EVERYTHING is off when the divorce comes. Nothing is guaranteed to
anyone anymore. What is guaranteed for the kids is that their lives
will be split and awkward from then on.
How could homeschooling exist separate from a marriage and not be a
consideration at the time of a divorce?
Sandra
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
>
> -=-Because the issues of divorce and the
> children's education should have been treated separately. Yet they
> became legally interwined. Truly, truly, unfortunate. -=-
>
> How could children's ANYTHING be treated separately from a divorce?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Anne Mills
I understand that it is crucial to agree. However I am wondering for myself if I would have the strengh to
accept schooling to protect my marriage. I feel my life would be still too painful from having to see my kids go
to school every day.
My husband also is not sure about unschooling, because his parents call him all the time about it and I really went through a period when he seemed enthousiastic about it.
I want my kids to have a happy life.
I also do not know what to do because, I have researched and spent time reading about the subject in extensive ways.
When my focus should be on the family unit, I drift and make it about unschooling.
Confidence in yourself is probably also key, isn't it ?
Anne
________________________________
Avec Hotmail, vos e-mails vous suivent partout ! Mettez Hotmail sur votre mobile !
http://www.messengersurvotremobile.com/?d=hotmail
accept schooling to protect my marriage. I feel my life would be still too painful from having to see my kids go
to school every day.
My husband also is not sure about unschooling, because his parents call him all the time about it and I really went through a period when he seemed enthousiastic about it.
I want my kids to have a happy life.
I also do not know what to do because, I have researched and spent time reading about the subject in extensive ways.
When my focus should be on the family unit, I drift and make it about unschooling.
Confidence in yourself is probably also key, isn't it ?
Anne
________________________________
> To: [email protected]_________________________________________________________________
> From: Sandra@...
> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 10:40:21 -0600
> Subject: Re: [AlwaysLearning] Re: Help, husband says we can't unschool anymore
>
>
> -=-I guess I don't understand what you mean? -=-
>
> Every fiber of a child's being is affected by parents and divorce
> changes everything.
> When parents have agreed that a child goes to a public school, or a
> private school, or not to school, that happens because the parents
> agreed.
>
> EVERYTHING is off when the divorce comes. Nothing is guaranteed to
> anyone anymore. What is guaranteed for the kids is that their lives
> will be split and awkward from then on.
>
> How could homeschooling exist separate from a marriage and not be a
> consideration at the time of a divorce?
>
> Sandra
>
> --- In [email protected]
Avec Hotmail, vos e-mails vous suivent partout ! Mettez Hotmail sur votre mobile !
http://www.messengersurvotremobile.com/?d=hotmail