just a question
m_aduhene
hi all,
i am very much on with my journey of unschooling and am totally
enjoying the adventure. i just have a question that keeps
niggling.......how would u propose unschooling in the "developing"
nations? what i mean by this is.....we hear all the time of the
advantages of an education for the children of these nations and how
we in the west can support a child and pay for his/her
education....how it gives them more choice and betters them for their
future....are we just being misled? are they being misled? is this
just an ideology from the west that we are transferring to them? do
they really need our notion of what denotes "an education'". you hear
a lot of children on the interviews saying they want to be doctors,
teachers etc. and then are given the impression that their education
will get them there.
thanks in advance for your ideas.
blessings
michelle
i am very much on with my journey of unschooling and am totally
enjoying the adventure. i just have a question that keeps
niggling.......how would u propose unschooling in the "developing"
nations? what i mean by this is.....we hear all the time of the
advantages of an education for the children of these nations and how
we in the west can support a child and pay for his/her
education....how it gives them more choice and betters them for their
future....are we just being misled? are they being misled? is this
just an ideology from the west that we are transferring to them? do
they really need our notion of what denotes "an education'". you hear
a lot of children on the interviews saying they want to be doctors,
teachers etc. and then are given the impression that their education
will get them there.
thanks in advance for your ideas.
blessings
michelle
Ren Allen
~~you hear
a lot of children on the interviews saying they want to be doctors,
teachers etc. and then are given the impression that their education
will get them there.~~
That may be true for them though.
They don't have the access to materials and information in the homes
the way Americans do. Their parents may not have many skills or access
to methods of gaining skills. So school might actually improve their
lot in life.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
a lot of children on the interviews saying they want to be doctors,
teachers etc. and then are given the impression that their education
will get them there.~~
That may be true for them though.
They don't have the access to materials and information in the homes
the way Americans do. Their parents may not have many skills or access
to methods of gaining skills. So school might actually improve their
lot in life.
Ren
learninginfreedom.com
Sandra Dodd
-=-.how would u propose unschooling in the "developing"
nations? what i mean by this is.....we hear all the time of the
advantages of an education for the children of these nations and how
we in the west can support a child and pay for his/her
education....how it gives them more choice and betters them for their
future....are we just being misled? -=-
Unschooling works here only when a family is able to be extremely
involved with the children. In places where parents have to live
away from home, or 12 hours a day, or for so little money they can't
afford reading materials or museums or whatever, it won't work.
School is better than not-school, under conditions in which
unschooling wouldn't work anyway.
-=-is this just an ideology from the west that we are transferring to
them? do they really need our notion of what denotes "an education'".-=-
The West has pressed and challenged other nations to do it more our
way, and so in some ways it becomes a necessity. If a Chinese kid
wants to get out of the village, education is the way to go. Same
with lots of places and cultures and economic situations.
Yo might want to read about some of the movement in India to get away
from the English colonial leftovers and to go back to their more
traditional ways. That's where unschooling is, In India. It's mixed
in with other "why do we do it the European way?" questions. They
will use English, though, because there are too many languages
there. English is what unites India. That they'll keep.
-=-you hear a lot of children on the interviews saying they want to
be doctors,teachers etc. and then are given the impression that their
education will get them there. -=-
I know a family who would've been untouchables in northern India had
the dad not gotten a government scholarship to go to college and then
to do grad work abroad. He ended up in Toronto for a PhD, and then
Bell Laboratories in New Jersey. Of five children, the two oldest
are girls. One is a banker and married a millionaire and lives in a
mansion in Florida. The next sister works at the U.N, some sort of
international advisement; I don't know the details. The two youngest
boys are medical specialists. One heart, one I forget what. The
middle kid was my boyfriend for four years when I was a teen and he
was 21-24. He is the failure of the family. He has an MD, did
family medicine (in Spanish, in the Dominican Republic, so he's got
Hindi, English and Spanish), then became a child psychiatrist and now
is doing ayurvedic combo medicine and counseling. BIG failure,
because he won't settle and isn't a surgeon.
That family is proof that education buys big houses and gives them
enough money to visit relatives in India and help them financially.
No one can argue with the extreme difference in their lives from this
to what if the father had stayed in his village, with whatever job he
could've gotten without a college degree.
Unschooling isn't for everyone. Can't be. Shouldn't be. Most
people can't do it, some shouldn't, and in many cases it just
wouldn't work anyway.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nations? what i mean by this is.....we hear all the time of the
advantages of an education for the children of these nations and how
we in the west can support a child and pay for his/her
education....how it gives them more choice and betters them for their
future....are we just being misled? -=-
Unschooling works here only when a family is able to be extremely
involved with the children. In places where parents have to live
away from home, or 12 hours a day, or for so little money they can't
afford reading materials or museums or whatever, it won't work.
School is better than not-school, under conditions in which
unschooling wouldn't work anyway.
-=-is this just an ideology from the west that we are transferring to
them? do they really need our notion of what denotes "an education'".-=-
The West has pressed and challenged other nations to do it more our
way, and so in some ways it becomes a necessity. If a Chinese kid
wants to get out of the village, education is the way to go. Same
with lots of places and cultures and economic situations.
Yo might want to read about some of the movement in India to get away
from the English colonial leftovers and to go back to their more
traditional ways. That's where unschooling is, In India. It's mixed
in with other "why do we do it the European way?" questions. They
will use English, though, because there are too many languages
there. English is what unites India. That they'll keep.
-=-you hear a lot of children on the interviews saying they want to
be doctors,teachers etc. and then are given the impression that their
education will get them there. -=-
I know a family who would've been untouchables in northern India had
the dad not gotten a government scholarship to go to college and then
to do grad work abroad. He ended up in Toronto for a PhD, and then
Bell Laboratories in New Jersey. Of five children, the two oldest
are girls. One is a banker and married a millionaire and lives in a
mansion in Florida. The next sister works at the U.N, some sort of
international advisement; I don't know the details. The two youngest
boys are medical specialists. One heart, one I forget what. The
middle kid was my boyfriend for four years when I was a teen and he
was 21-24. He is the failure of the family. He has an MD, did
family medicine (in Spanish, in the Dominican Republic, so he's got
Hindi, English and Spanish), then became a child psychiatrist and now
is doing ayurvedic combo medicine and counseling. BIG failure,
because he won't settle and isn't a surgeon.
That family is proof that education buys big houses and gives them
enough money to visit relatives in India and help them financially.
No one can argue with the extreme difference in their lives from this
to what if the father had stayed in his village, with whatever job he
could've gotten without a college degree.
Unschooling isn't for everyone. Can't be. Shouldn't be. Most
people can't do it, some shouldn't, and in many cases it just
wouldn't work anyway.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], "m_aduhene" <anthony@...>
wrote:
is all about building schools in Pakistan . So I spent a lot of time
pondering this -- my very strong belief in unschooling and my total
joy in the schools Greg Mortenson was/is building for kids, girls in
particular, in Pakistan and now Afganistan.
http://www.ikat.org/
What I came to was this: they are unschooling, pretty much. They
absolutely choose to go to school, in some many ways they have to
fight for that choice. They don't necessarily place school above
other aspects of life, they also work in the fields, take time off
for deaths, births, to help out the family ... for them school is
another thing out there to do in life. They don't have books, paper,
pencils at home, so here is an opportunity to use all these great
things. Just as we would help our kids study for the ACT (very
schooly) if they wanted to get into college to study to become a
doctor, so these families help their kids go to school so that they
can go to college and become doctors (or whatever).
My kids and I have actually started collecting pennies for the
pennies for peace progam -- a penny buys a pencil in Central Asia,
something my dd in particulatr can't imagine living without.
http://www.penniesforpeace.org/home.html
teacher or a doctor or a marine biologist they would probably, at
some point, need to go to some kind of school to get there.
Cathy
wrote:
>I just finished reading Three Cups of Tea (which I LOVED!!!) and it
> hi all,
> i am very much on with my journey of unschooling and am totally
> enjoying the adventure. i just have a question that keeps
> niggling.......how would u propose unschooling in the "developing"
> nations?
is all about building schools in Pakistan . So I spent a lot of time
pondering this -- my very strong belief in unschooling and my total
joy in the schools Greg Mortenson was/is building for kids, girls in
particular, in Pakistan and now Afganistan.
http://www.ikat.org/
What I came to was this: they are unschooling, pretty much. They
absolutely choose to go to school, in some many ways they have to
fight for that choice. They don't necessarily place school above
other aspects of life, they also work in the fields, take time off
for deaths, births, to help out the family ... for them school is
another thing out there to do in life. They don't have books, paper,
pencils at home, so here is an opportunity to use all these great
things. Just as we would help our kids study for the ACT (very
schooly) if they wanted to get into college to study to become a
doctor, so these families help their kids go to school so that they
can go to college and become doctors (or whatever).
My kids and I have actually started collecting pennies for the
pennies for peace progam -- a penny buys a pencil in Central Asia,
something my dd in particulatr can't imagine living without.
http://www.penniesforpeace.org/home.html
> you heareducation
> a lot of children on the interviews saying they want to be doctors,
> teachers etc. and then are given the impression that their
> will get them there.Well, I guess this is true ... I mean, if my child wanted to be a
teacher or a doctor or a marine biologist they would probably, at
some point, need to go to some kind of school to get there.
Cathy
Sandra Dodd
-=-They don't have books, paper,
pencils at home, so here is an opportunity to use all these great
things. -=-
There are some families without such things at home. We had
neighbors when Holly was little. The mom didn't have crayons or
paints or any such messy thing in her house, because Kellee could
paint and draw at school. Their house was like a motel suite,
photographable at any moment.
I bought a globe when I was a kid. Saved my money. Otherwise, the
only maps would've been ten or fifteen years old in the encyclopedia
we had (ten years old when I first got the globe; fifteen years old
when I was in high school and still using it).
Some people are unschooling without much stuff, either. Some don't
have the internet (and they're unlikely to read this). There's a
continuum from no resources to too many resources, maybe. <g>
I had a neighbor when I was seven. Geneva. I don't remember her
last name. They lived in a two-room adobe house, right next to the
bus stop, so we played while we were waiting for school. They
owned two cookpans, just a few dishes, had electric light, but I
don't remember anything else electric. Wind-up clock. The stove was
natural gas, or maybe wood. I think two beds, two chairs, just her
mom and grandfather and her, I think. No paper, no pencils outside
of her school supplies. For that family, school was great. For
Geneva, school was good.
For me, school was good because my mom was usually ragging and
complaining and accusing and insulting and telling me to go somewhere
else and do something else, or get back here and do whatever she told
me to do. There were other times, not so bad, but the chances of it
being rag on and on and on were about 60%, and a full day never
passed without a bout of it.
Unschooling isn't the opposite of school, but it kinda seems like it
might be when someone standing between a school door and a $700
curriculum, and sees some kids playing off in the distance.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
pencils at home, so here is an opportunity to use all these great
things. -=-
There are some families without such things at home. We had
neighbors when Holly was little. The mom didn't have crayons or
paints or any such messy thing in her house, because Kellee could
paint and draw at school. Their house was like a motel suite,
photographable at any moment.
I bought a globe when I was a kid. Saved my money. Otherwise, the
only maps would've been ten or fifteen years old in the encyclopedia
we had (ten years old when I first got the globe; fifteen years old
when I was in high school and still using it).
Some people are unschooling without much stuff, either. Some don't
have the internet (and they're unlikely to read this). There's a
continuum from no resources to too many resources, maybe. <g>
I had a neighbor when I was seven. Geneva. I don't remember her
last name. They lived in a two-room adobe house, right next to the
bus stop, so we played while we were waiting for school. They
owned two cookpans, just a few dishes, had electric light, but I
don't remember anything else electric. Wind-up clock. The stove was
natural gas, or maybe wood. I think two beds, two chairs, just her
mom and grandfather and her, I think. No paper, no pencils outside
of her school supplies. For that family, school was great. For
Geneva, school was good.
For me, school was good because my mom was usually ragging and
complaining and accusing and insulting and telling me to go somewhere
else and do something else, or get back here and do whatever she told
me to do. There were other times, not so bad, but the chances of it
being rag on and on and on were about 60%, and a full day never
passed without a bout of it.
Unschooling isn't the opposite of school, but it kinda seems like it
might be when someone standing between a school door and a $700
curriculum, and sees some kids playing off in the distance.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sandra Dodd
-=-What I came to was this: they are unschooling, pretty much. They
absolutely choose to go to school-=-
Choosing to go to school isn't unschooling. That's not a good way to
go.
I'd be thrilled if you used this list to say school by choice is a
world of difference from school by compulsion. I'd send this link to
go with it:
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
But going to school is still going to school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
absolutely choose to go to school-=-
Choosing to go to school isn't unschooling. That's not a good way to
go.
I'd be thrilled if you used this list to say school by choice is a
world of difference from school by compulsion. I'd send this link to
go with it:
http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
But going to school is still going to school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cathyandgarth
--- In [email protected], Sandra Dodd <Sandra@...> wrote:
school by choice isn't school by cumplusion.
But isn't that the point that I was making in the first place? I
actually came to my place of balance with the issue of those schools
that kids fight for versus us choosing to unschool by way of your
article you posted the link to. You wrote "No longer were these
children in school against their will, their parents having submitted
them to a lock-up situation. On one hand they had teachers who wanted
them to stay in school. On the other hand they had parents who wanted
them to stay home. How much more "wanted" could they feel? Each
moment they were in school they were aware, and the teacher was
aware, that they were there because they, the children, WANTED to be
there!"
Granted,there are a whole world of cultural issues that are also at
play in many of these situations. And, I agree, >going to school is
still going to school.>
I just know that I wouldn't want my children *denied* the right to
choose to go to school. And I think that that is the main thing at
play in these countries.
And, now back unschooling ... which I am eternally grateful for
having the freedom to choose.
I don't know, maybe my wording is all wrong again -- I was trying to
explain how I found a place for both unschooling my children and
understanding the *need* for schools in other parts of the world.
Cathy
>to
> -=-What I came to was this: they are unschooling, pretty much. They
> absolutely choose to go to school-=-
>
> Choosing to go to school isn't unschooling. That's not a good way
> go.to
>
> I'd be thrilled if you used this list to say school by choice is a
> world of difference from school by compulsion. I'd send this link
> go with it:Okay, that is why I said unschooling pretty much. But I got it,
>
> http://sandradodd.com/schoolchoice
>
school by choice isn't school by cumplusion.
But isn't that the point that I was making in the first place? I
actually came to my place of balance with the issue of those schools
that kids fight for versus us choosing to unschool by way of your
article you posted the link to. You wrote "No longer were these
children in school against their will, their parents having submitted
them to a lock-up situation. On one hand they had teachers who wanted
them to stay in school. On the other hand they had parents who wanted
them to stay home. How much more "wanted" could they feel? Each
moment they were in school they were aware, and the teacher was
aware, that they were there because they, the children, WANTED to be
there!"
Granted,there are a whole world of cultural issues that are also at
play in many of these situations. And, I agree, >going to school is
still going to school.>
I just know that I wouldn't want my children *denied* the right to
choose to go to school. And I think that that is the main thing at
play in these countries.
And, now back unschooling ... which I am eternally grateful for
having the freedom to choose.
I don't know, maybe my wording is all wrong again -- I was trying to
explain how I found a place for both unschooling my children and
understanding the *need* for schools in other parts of the world.
Cathy
Pamela Sorooshian
On Jun 9, 2008, at 1:57 PM, cathyandgarth wrote:
around here who would be willing to put in the time and energy and
attention that unschooling requires.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't know, maybe my wording is all wrong again -- I was trying toAnd in this part of the world, too. I don't see a lot of parents
> explain how I found a place for both unschooling my children and
> understanding the *need* for schools in other parts of the world.
>
around here who would be willing to put in the time and energy and
attention that unschooling requires.
-pam
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]